Changes

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 3:09 PM CDT Comment 24 comments

After the terrible play of the Offensive Line, I've had a few conversations with several friends and fans. I was at the Seahawks game and actually talked about a few things with a guy sitting a row in front of me. Both of us shared the opinion that we COULD make changes to the OL without bringing anyone in that might actually help.

Now, we're both of the opinion that we NEED to bring someone in, but that doesnt mean someone is available. So my thoughts on the OL after the jump..

First, lets talk about some of the guys background.

Branden Albert is our LT. His natural position however is LG.

Brian Waters is our LG. He can play any interior position.

Rudy Niswanger is our C. Hes a bit out of place considering he is very tall for a C.

Mike Goff is our RG. He can play C or RG.

Finally Damien McIntosh and Barry Richardson are the RT's. Unfortunately, not much can be done for this position

On the bench we have Herb Taylor, who hasnt done much this camp (that I know of) but played well at LT last season for Brandon Albert, and has been practicing at LG also.

Now, there are a couple of different setups that I have thought of. I think we should have been testing different positions a long time ago considering we have guys who can play multiple positions on the OL. I know that you shouldnt mess with something that is not broken. We know the left side of our OL is fairly solid. But what if we could make some changes that would add consistancy to the rest of the OL? We might be able to go from a good let side, terrible right side to average on each side, which MIGHT take some pressure off the QB. If it doesnt go well in practice, then just dont do it. But its worth checking out, IMO.

Lineup #1

Herb Taylor, Branden Albert, Mike Goff, Brian Waters, Damien McIntosh/Barry Richardson

Lineup #2

Branden Albert, Herb Taylor, Mike Goff, Brian Waters, D-Mac/Richardson.

Lineup #3

Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Mike Goff, Rudy Niswanger, D-Mac/Richardson

Personally, I like Lineup #3 because it keeps Albert and Waters together. Goff is tall like Niswanger but is also heavier and maybe stronger. He may be able to keep from being shoved into the backfield all the time. Niswanger is a good fit, physically, at RG. Can he play there? I dont know. I think that was his original position. Brian Waters can also supposebly play C, but I dont know if Id want him playing there. It would depend on who takes the LG spot and how well they play.

The last thing I want to address..and I'm sick of hearing about..is how "stupid" Pioli and Haley are for not doing more to upgrade the OL. Seriously, its getting on my nerves. None of us know if we tried to do more. Its obvious that we TRIED to upgrade the OL by adding Goff. How were we supposed to know that Goff wasnt going to live up to what we thought we would be? We obviously needed more than Goff but whos to say we didnt try? We might have tried to get a FA C or RT to come in and they didnt want to play for a 6-26 team. Maybe we wanted to draft OL in the 3rd round and didnt think any that were available were good enough. Maybe we tried to trade for OL and couldnt find a trade partner. My point is, NONE of us know what Pioli TRIED to do. So why are we blaming this on him? Maybe we should blame the guys who didnt want to come to KC. Hell, I dont think I'd want to go to a 6-26 team either. Think about it.

These FA's dont know everything about every team. They know the Chiefs were bad last year. They DONT know what we did in the offseason to improve. But all that improving isnt going to matter, because our OL cant protect the QB, we can't convert 3rd downs, we put the defense back on the field constantly, theyre going to get tired and we're going to get killed. Unfortunately, I have gone from extremely optimistic (7 wins minimum) to extremely worried. At this point, Id be THRILLED if we could win 5-6 games.

Anyway. Thats my 2 cents.

Poll

What should we try to do with the OL, if a quality OL is not available via trade?

Try out Lineup #1

2 votes

Try out Lineup #2

1 votes

Try out Lineup #3

16 votes

Stick with what we have and hope for the best.

7 votes

26 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Comments

More people trying to monkey around with the O-line

Brandon Alberts “natural position” is Left Tackle. He only playe Guard in college because he was sandwiched between two other top 5 pick LTs in Ferguson and Monroe. Albert is a natural at LT and it is beyond me why people are so obsessed with wanting to move him to Guard when right now he is the most solid player on the offensive line.

The obsession with moving Waters to Center is equally baffling.

Albert and Waters is fine. They need to simply find a replacment at Center and figure out what the hell they’re doing at RT.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 31, 2009 3:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

Keep Albert and Waters where they are.

Keep looking for the right combination of C/RG/RT

Some other combinations:

Albert, Waters, Alleman, Ndukwe, Richardson

Albert, Waters, Niswanger, Alleman, Ndukwe

Lots of possibilities, probably some new players coming in next week.

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like this one stag.

Albert, Waters. Niswanger, Alleman, Ndukwe

At least for now. When they played the new guys the other night, our line looked better on that side. I saw what people were saying a Ndukwe not being real mobile but, he was solid and didn’t let his guy get past him. his strength seemed to make up for his lack of mobility. Still better than our other options.
Now we just need some help from the “TEs”. Seriously, I don’t care if they NEVER catch a pass as long as they are good blockers.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 31, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TE

exactly.

Who’s going to be available?

Don’t snooze on FB… I bet Cox gets replaced now that Gailey is gone

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa whoa

whoa. I’m not saying we need to “monkey around” the OL. I’m saying we need to try something that works. We have VERSATILE guys on the OL

Very true about Albert being behind Ferguson and Monroe, but if his natural position is LT, tell me why he had never played LT as his primary position, even in highschool? I’m not “obsessed” with moving him. I only had him moved away from LT on 1 of the options that I listed. I dont want to move him but IF moving him would let another quality player into the lineup and get a shitty player out, then I’m all for it. It’s simply an OPTION. So dont come talking down like that when I only mentioned the possibility. I’m not advocating it. I’m saying if Taylor can play LT and Albert LG effectivly, it would give us the option to put Waters to help solidify the right side.

Another possibilty that I didnt list would be Taylor playing LG since hes practiced there but I dont know how well he’d be there.

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

The last thing I want to address..and I’m sick of hearing about..is how “stupid” Pioli and Haley are for not doing more to upgrade the OL. Seriously, its getting on my nerves. None of us know if we tried to do more. Its obvious that we TRIED to upgrade the OL by adding Goff. How were we supposed to know that Goff wasnt going to live up to what we thought we would be?

We ALL thought Goff was a huge upgrade, and would be a staple at RG.
We thought that having Goff at RG would help out Rudy at C.
RT was the only question, and the Chiefs drafted a future RT.

So far, things haven’t gone as planned… but don’t give up yet

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 3:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Correction

Not everyone thought Goff would be a huge upgrade. There were many who pointed out he was cast off in San Diego for good reason.

Thank You Carl Peterson for drafting Dustin Colquitt

by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 31, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok... most thought he would

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesnt matter

If everyone thought he’d be a huge upgrade or not. He IS an upgrade over Adrian Jones, just not by as much as I expected. Whether or not he was a huge upgrade, he was an upgrade and Pioli TRIED to help the right side. Just because he only brought 1 guy in doesnt mean he didnt try to get 4 guys. We dont know what players/teams Pioli talked to so you cant go calling him stupid for not trying to improve the line. He apparently tried with the addition of Goff and im sure he tried to get other guys.

You cant turn the whole team around in 1 offseason. Unfortunately, the OL was a position that was a stuggle to upgrade.

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

A) I don’t agree Goff is an upgrade over Jones

B)Pioli, by his own admission, doesn’t believe in “rebuilds”. We were promised a competitive team this year, not next. And if we’ve learned anything from the School of Parcells – you can turn a team around in 1 offseason.

Thank You Carl Peterson for drafting Dustin Colquitt

by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 31, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones was terrible

not sure Goff could possibly be worse

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last year he was

Thank You Carl Peterson for drafting Dustin Colquitt

by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 31, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just

because a team every once in awhile turns around that fast doesnt mean any team can do that. Otherwise, teams would do it every year.

Goff is not an upgrade over Jones? Adrian Jones split time with Wade Smith last season. Wade Smith was no good last year either. Smith was actually better than Jones was, IMO. Either way, Goff is playing over Smith. If Goff is playing over Smith who shared time with Jones, I think you can draw the conclusion that Goff is better than both of them. To go with that, Jones plays for the Texans (who arent known for having a strong OL) and hes not a starter there either.

And I knew you were going to say that about turning it around in 1 year. It happens RARELY. Our team had WAY too many holes to fill in 1 offseason. 3 out of 5 spots on the OL needed to be upgraded. We needed WR’s, DE’s, LB’s and a K. We were able to upgrade most of those positions, but OL wasnt upgraded.

How were we supposed to know that Goff wouldnt be the upgrade we wanted him to be? How do you know we didnt attempt to get other OL’s here?

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see all your options have Goff at center.

Do you really think he is an upgrade. He has been getting destroyed at guard. He is a hint of advice. Old guys who get cut by good teams are cut for a reason.

I get a kick out everyone deciding who fits better where. The truth is we don’t know what happens in practice. We don’t know who has what responsibilty in the game (it might look like someone gets beat for a sack, but maybe the guy beside him blocked the right guy. The coaches are going to play the best players at each position to make the best line. If Niswanger is center, then the coaches think he is a better center. If Richardson starts at RT its because they think that is they best option. I defer to them. I think they understand the situation better than us.

by saskwatch on Aug 31, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

cant' argue with that

Thus the reason Runyan and Jones are probably not going to help…

Old guys who get cut by good teams are cut for a reason.

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

their "good reason" was injury...

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Runyan and Tauscher anyway...

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Did you read the whole post or did you see the pole and read the lineups and nothing else?

I said “Goff is tall like Niswanger but is also heavier and maybe stronger. He may be able to keep from being shoved into the backfield all the time. Niswanger is a good fit, physically, at RG. Can he play there? I dont know.”

That was my reasoning. He may not be an upgrade. But being heavier and possibly stronger, he may be able to keep from getting pushed into the backfield which is crucial. Swapping Niswanger and Goff may help more than you think. It may not help at all. It might be worse. I dont know! All I’m saying is its worth taking a look at if it COULD improve the line. Not that it will…but could.

Niswanger was originally a Guard. I’m not sure which side, but I know the year we signed him he played games at both LG and RG. Hes 6’5, 300lbs. Goff is 6’5, 315. Both of them are too tall to play C. C’s are usually shorter so that DT’s arent as likely to gain a leverage advantage. I simply pointed out that PHYSICALLY…Goff would be a better fit at C and Rudy at RG. Rudy’s original position was G, so why not try switching them up? They arent playing good where they are at now so whats the harm in TESTING them out..in practice and maybe a series or 2 against STL? Why Not? Theres no reason as to why not. Because if it doesnt work, we can go back to the same POS line that we have right now.

So you defer everything to the coaches believing a certain player is better? Did you defer to them when they chose Grbac over Gannon?

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leave some people in place for a little bit...

They need time playing together to improve…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that's what I'm thinking

constant shuffling only allows multiple players to get playing time in the preseason…. hopefully in order to get the coaching staff a good idea of who has what it takes.

come regular season, they better have a solid starting 5 and stick to it.

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the same

But hell we already have D-Mac swapping between 1st team RT and 2nd team LT and Richardson switching from 1st team RT to i think 2nd team G (not sure which..)

So why not let some guys move around, see what guys are better at which position, make your final cut and keep it throughout the season?

I am by no means saying we should swap them up until something works during season. I think we need to figure it out NOW and whatever we go into the season with is what we’ll finish with with the exception of injury. But I have a feeling that Dmac/BRich could get ugly..they both suck.

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

B-Rich looks OK at RT, terrible at LT (where he plays with the 3rd team, i think)

I say, set a line, start Richardson with Ndukwe as backup or vice versa, and roll with it.
I bet they look better each game.

by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post! From the heart to be sure...

I agree with the bashing Pioli and Haley crap..I’m sick of it. We’re very lucky to have landed those two at the same time. They KNOW they have to do something about our line too!! They get it..believe me they do.

They see the big picture and they have major reputations to live up to. Daddy in law would not be proud of a failed GM would he? He’s not going to sit by and watch this team embarrass him. He’s not going to let himself get fired either!! He’s Scott Pioli!

But you have to level the condemned building before you can rebuild it. Their just trying to find out who they got here. They can’t build Rome in one freakin’ day. Patience Chiefs fans….they deserve a couple of years here!!

Either way our O Line is jacked right now but there are like 12 new head coaches and GM’s across the league in the same position and their all out to get the same players we’re after. There’s no freebie’s!! Their trying!! They are!!

by krayfish on Aug 31, 2009 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Couldnt have said it better

31 OTHER teams in the league. Some of them have bad OL’s too. But some of them with bad OL’s had better records than us. Simply having a better record is a small advantage. Players dont want to go to shitty teams but they do for their own reasons. Foote went to Detroit because thats where hes from. Do you think Thomas came here because he wanted to win? I’m sure he wants to win but dont you think that him being on the downside of his career, and still wanting to start, and having an opportunity to start (though Corey Mays jumped into the picture) here in KC has something to do with it too

Everytime we hit FA, theres potentially 31 other teams looking at the same player. We cant blame Pioli because he couldnt convince more players to come to a 6-26 team. He got us Cassel, Vrabel, Thomas, Beisel, Engram, Toomer, Lelie, and Goff via FA. Hell, thats not too bad. Thomas may not start, Beisels a backup, nobody knows whos going to make the team between Engram Toomer or Lelie, IF any of them, but maybe all of them. Noone knows.

by Petey14 on Aug 31, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs