Reality check 8/31/09
by stagdsp on Aug 31, 2009 1:41 PM CDT
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I'm losing my mind today reading this site.
Call me the eternal opitimist, or naive... but I feel like I have to get a message out there that the Chiefs' season is NOT over. The world is NOT ending. The sky is still up there, and still blue. I'm pretty sure the sun came up this morning just like it usually does.
My analysis after the Jump will help explain why the only thing I'm freaking out about this morning is having to listen to the sound of bodies falling off of each weekly bandwagon, and the doomsday talk of a season ending before it starts.
Bottom line... take a deep breath, and be patient. Teams aren't built or destroyed based on one preseason game, one QB injury or one Offensive Coordinator's job. Yes, there have been a lot of changes... yes, there are more changes and surprises yet to come... especially this week.
* Chan Gailey is out as OC... well, many people were surprised that he was retained in the first place. Speculation was that Haley wanted to call his own plays. However, any casual observer could see that Haley was very frustrated with the offense in each of the first 3 preseason games. They were able to move the ball some, but weren't able to finish games or score enough TD. We don't know if Gailey and Haley had a "falling out" or if Haley just decided he wanted more control over the offense. Either way, I think the playcalling was lacking, and the offense wasn't progressing as well as the defense has to date. Pioli and Haley have shown that mediocrity is not an option, and they won't hesitate to pull the trigger if a change is needed. This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, it was likely in the works for a couple of weeks. My guess is that Haley and Carthon will take over, and the offense may be better because of it.
* Matt Cassel is hurt... a mild sprain, probably out 2 weeks. This is the NFL. Players get hurt from time to time. Even with the greatest offensive line known to man, a QB will get hit sometimes, and he may get injured because of that hit. It happens. The good news is that he's not out for the season, and there's an outside chance he could be back for the opener. Cassel is a tough guy, and he'll be fine. 2 weeks ago, many on this site were saying that Croyle was the better QB, and that he should have a shot to start over Cassel. Others thought Thigpen deserved a real shot at starting, because he did an admirable job last year. Now, those guys get a chance to prove their worth again for the next couple of weeks. It's time for them to put up or shut up. When Cassel comes back to start again, The Chiefs will know what they have at the QB position, top to bottom... which is a good thing.
* Speaking of QB... I've never seen more love turn to hate turn to love turn to hate as I have for Tyler Thigpen. This guy was a 7th rd pick from a tiny school that the Chiefs stole off of waivers from the Vikes. He stepped in last season and looked bad at times, good at times, but evolved to be productive as the year went on. He had an OK offseason/preseason before Saturday's game vs the Seahawks, and struggled in that game. Last week, there was a huge debate on this site about whether the Chiefs could afford to let him go for just a 5th/4th/3rd draft pick. Most argued that trading him was a good idea, but that he had significant value because of what he did last year. Then came Saturday's game, where Cassel went down, and Thigpen stepped in. What did you expect to see from him? Thigpen did what he always does... he ran around, threw the ball up for grabs, and the Chiefs came close but didn't win. Why, then, all of a sudden, is he the worst QB ever to play for the Chiefs and needs to be cut or traded for a pack of gum? What changed? (rhetorical question... the answer is NOTHING) My bet is that Thigpen is still traded within the week, for a 5th round pick, or a player.
* That brings us to the OL. Going into 2008, everyone knew the offensive line would be a question mark. By the end of 2008... still a question mark. Going into 2009... you guessed it, a question mark. Everyone knows Albert and Waters are very solid. Everyone knows Niswanger is a question mark. Everyone knows McIntosh is terrible. We thought Goff would be great, he hasn't shown it so far. So, what did Pioli do? He drafted a long term RG or RT prospect in Brown, then traded for quality depth in Ndukwe and Alleman. Did he do enough? It's too early to tell!!! Alleman and Ndukwe have been Chiefs for about a week. Who's to say they aren't the answer? They haven't settled on a starting lineup, or made roster cuts, or finished bringing in OL from other teams. Why is everyone freaking out about how "terrible" this line is now? I showed in my prior Fanpost that the OL did a decent job of pass blocking, but the TE were missing their assignments. I was worried about the runblocking, a little... but the Chiefs actually ran the ball pretty well vs. Seattle, and are showing signs of improvement there. Just because a QB got hurt, doesn't mean the OL is worse than we thought. Give the coaching staff time to pick a starting lineup, and put them on the field for a few games before throwing in the towel on 2009.
* Finally, week 1 vs the Ravens... YES, the Ravens have a great defense. Yes, it's a very difficult challenge for the Chiefs in week 1. Yes, there are still many questions to be answered on the OL and now at QB. But, I think it's crazy that people are saying that the Chiefs should concede week one, or throw in a 3rd string QB to avoid an injury to the 2nd string guy. "you play to win the game" (just kidding with the Herm reference there, I couldn't resist) The Chiefs will put their best team on the field for week one. That much I am sure of. Will it be a finished product and a guaranteed victory for KC? NO. Is it a guaranteed loss and a QB injury and 10 sacks? NO
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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of course
but, seriously… even if I wasn’t… there’s no reason for the level of panic out there today
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
There is no reason for panic...
but there is reason for realistic expectations. This team should win 4-6 games, I’m surprised at the number of people who seem to expect this team to compete for a playoff.
Aint got a beach and I see no mountains, landlocked loungin' in the City of Fountains.
true
But, I DO expect this team to be competitive.
I think 8-8 is the target this year.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
Less than for wins, this year is a failure. More than 6 wins, a success.
Aint got a beach and I see no mountains, landlocked loungin' in the City of Fountains.
that's fair.
I’m saying that 8-8 or 9-7 are the GOAL.
6 wins would be a solid start.
4 or less… very disappointing
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Yes, goals should be 80% attainable, if 8--8 is goal, then 6-10 is acceptable.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Aug 31, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
fine with me
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Not fine with me
Selling yourself short is a worse crime than not achieveing your goals.
The GOAL…the ONLY GOAL… is to make the playoffs and get in the show.
IF you achieve that goal…..the GOAL is to win the Superbowl.
Setting the bar any lower than that is no better than just throwing in the towel and forfeiting all the games.
Is it realistic? No. It is more likely that the Chiefs are in for a gut wrenching year of learning and growing under an entirely new managament team, coaching philosophy, and culture. BUT, that doens’t change the goal.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
point taken
Super Bowl is always the goal for the team. period.
But, there’s a difference between an ultimate goal and a realistic expectation.
And, there’s a difference between the team’s goal, and the fans’ expectations/goals for their team.
I expect the team to be working toward a Super Bowl.
I expect them to come short this year.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
i agree
denver looks like a 4-to 6-win team too
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule
I believe the injury to Cassel just highlighted even more..
the reason why Chan had to go…Not that injuries don’t happen to very good teams too like you said, but the play calling lends itself to people failing and getting injured. This wouldn’t be the first QB to get leveled and ko’d under Chan’s offensive schemes is it?? I thought not!
You have to build an offense that capitalizes on it’s strengths and works around it’s weaknesses.
A small porsche wouldn’t do well at the demolition derby, but a monster truck wouldn’t do much good at the Indy 500 either.
You find your strengths and weaknesses and you play to them. This is all going to be fine. For God sakes, we STILL haven’t seen “the” starting lineup yet!! Every game it’s mixed with different people starting. We’ll get there soon enough.
agreed.
good points.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
So to play around our weaknesses
Cassel should line up under center and spike the ball everytime. That way none of our qb’s or running backs get hurt.
The play he got hurt on
Looked like some off-tackle playaction screen, or some exotic shit like that. Those types of plays take a looong time to develop. If they defense isn’t sold on it, and your OLine can’t stand stout vs a mob of kids chasing an ice cream truck let alone blood-thirsty DLinemen, the QB is going to die.
Haley is tired of that shit, wants to get rid of all the gimmicks and trickery, and play straight up football where success is bred upon exectuion. If your OLine sucks, set up in the shotgun and get the ball out quickly, just as Arizona did when their OLine was terrible and they couldn’t get the run game going.
Enough with Chan, Thiggy smalls, and all the gimmicks. It’s time to execute.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
You can't put the blame on Chan
If everyone wants to play the blame game you can blame Chan for the playcall, the O-line for being horrible, TE and FB for missing blocks, Haley and Pioli for not fixing the O-line, Cassel for holding the ball too long not running away fast enough etc, and the defender for the questionable illegal hit according to the new pansy ass rule. Its just football and shit happens. Just my opinion though.
I can blame Chan for...
knowing the OLine is that terrible and still trying to call exotic plays like that. Cassel had guys in his face as soon as he came out of the play fake. There wasn’t enough time for the play to develop, and that’s nothing new. Anything more than a 3-step drop behind this OLine is disastrous.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
It wasn't a gimic...
It was a simple pulling guard blocking assignment where the tackle has to come across the face of his man and shut down the hole. The pulling guard has to make it to the edge and contain the rusher.
It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what the Chiefs were trying to do with the ball because…
1) The Tackle did not get across the face of his man and shut him out
2) The pulling guard did not contain the rusher on the outside.
They could have been running a simle shovel pass, or a screen, or a deep pass, or a run up the middle. It doens’t really matter what the play call was because TWO of the linemen managed to miss their blocking assignments on the same play.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
which two?
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Brian Waters failed to contain the edge man, and McIntosh failed to execute the crossing block
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Aug 31, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
A playaction screen pass isn't gimicky?
We can’t hold protection straight up. There is no sense in involving so much exotic trickery with long-to-develop play-fakes and crossing OL blocking schemes when your OLine can’t even block straight up, man-to-man.
You have to recognize the talents of the guys you have and act accordingly. Our line is garbage. Chan wasn’t acting accordingly, and installing the Pistol is not an option.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Aug 31, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
a pulling guard play
has been a staple of every pro, college, and highschool team’s play calling since before I was alive.
There is nothing even remotely “gimicky” about it.
These guys have been doing it since they were in intra-mural leagues.
There is no excuse for just flat out missing their assignemnts on a pulling gurad play.
The play call was about as exotic as a black tuxedo.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
"there’s no reason for the level of panic out there today"
Today? The panic has been going on since the second quarter of the Vikings game. Its getting a bit silly.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Learning Process all around
By the way I’ve been following AP for quite some time now. but this article made me actually join as a member and comment to it. Im a die hard chiefs fan and I thought Haley should have been calling the plays in the first place. Does it mean we are going to get better? No, but its a learning process all around.. And personally why would Thigpen be playing 1st team if we still think he is going to be traded. Cassel’s injury has just sealed his spot on the team. He wouldn’t be playing 1st string if he was going to be traded.
thanks and welcome
I think that Thigpen is playing 1st string for 2 reasons.
ONE… IF he’s still on the roster for week 1… the Chiefs want to get him reps so he’s ready to go
TWO… I think they really do want to trade him, and giving him the first team reps shows that he’s valuable to KC, and not going to be cut. So, any team that wants him has to trade for him.
just my speculation, I still feel like he’s going to be traded. But, we’ll see what happens in the next week.
Lots of changes going on!!!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
so its win win situation for thiggy? Not talking games..
He is still valuable to us due to recent injuries.. So he would be the starter if Cassel is still injured. AND if he does get traded.. He will get paid way more than he is now… I really think Haley has a hard on for him.. secretly…
Highly Rec'd
Haley told the offense to run it again. When someone said the defense already knows the play he responded, "So what, make it work."
Good read.
I want to see what Pioli does when the cuts start, but there is room for improvement if we want those 6 wins.
the offense may be better because of it.
And it may not be.
I remember when Herm was hired. I remember when people thought he was going to take the Chiefs to the promise land, or at least give them a shot like he did in New York. He did the same thing here he did in with the Jets; Destroy the team.
I’m not saying Haley is like Herm per se, but he’s showing Herm-like tendencies that are making me wring my hands in nervousness about where things are going.
People were defending the playcalling in my Thigpen thread saying “what do you expect? it’s preseason. Of course they’re going to have a vanilla offense.” Now Gailey gets fired and seemingly those same people are blaming Gailey for the bad playcalling. But when it was Haley’s perceived baby it was ok.
Newsflash guys: No one walks on water. None of these guys are perfect. They ARE going to make mistakes. Pioli is a calculating guy, no doubt. But he’s learning, and there are going to be mistakes made. The fact is, we don’t know if anything they’re doing is a mistake or not in the long run. Was not getting Cassel some help that could start immediately (ie- NOT Brown) a mistake? Seems like it could be if he’s going to be getting creamed. Is Haley calling the plays going to be a mistake? Who knows, but I think we’ll have a good clue after the Rams game. I think it’s a bad idea for a first time head coach in his first season, but I’m not going to condemn the guy before he proves or disproves himself.
The sky isn’t falling, I said that earlier as well. But the clouds could be coming in.
good thoughts
I’m trying to give Haley and Pioli both a fair chance to succeed… but I’m realistic as well.
I think they’ve made mostly good moves so far, and a lot of them. (the most in the league)
I do realize that they can and will make mistakes. I’m just not ready to sell them out, and call them failures before the season even starts.
I’m guessing they were concerned about the OL from day one, but wanted to evaluate who they had before making a rash decision to bring someone in. I think they see it now, and are working to get it fixed.
I don’t think that Cassel (or any QB) is in such terrible danger that they should expect to get hurt behind this OL every game. That’s a big exagguration that is being stated now, only because Cassel got hurt trying to scramble. The pass protection hasn’t been great so far.. .but it hasn’t been atrocious either.
If Cassel hadn’t been hurt, we’d be still be talking about how to improve the line, but it wouldn’t be such a panic attack
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Thought I read somewhere
that Cassel had been sacked 4 times in 19 pass attempts. How many times did he scramble? That’s bad pass protection.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 31, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't see that
yeah, that sounds bad.
I’m just going by what I’ve seen… he does scramble and move around a lot.
there are issues on the line, and at the TE/FB positions (which I still belive are BIGGER than the problems on the OL)… but all I’m saying is that it’s not as catastrophic as people are making it out to be.
The OL will be better, both in pass protection and running the ball than last year. That I’m pretty sure of.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Here it is...
The Chiefs have just two offensive touchdowns. Their immediate prospects for improvement could depend on when they get Cassel back. He was injured while being sacked — he’s gone down four times despite attempting only 19 throws — on his first pass attempt against the Seahawks.
From KC Star
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 31, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks
Look at those 4 sacks and see who missed the blocks.
I’m pretty sure it was a TE on at least 2 of them, if not more.
I’m not saying the OL is great, just that there’s more to it than that stat, and there are more changes coming
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I got nothin' but love for u saintll but...
Again…do we all have Alzheimer’s? The clouds could be coming in…..oh yeah wait…They ARE here already. We’re not enveloped in clouds…we’re in a damn f5 tornado..we went 2 and 26 over the past 2 years.
We are in the dark tunnel. We have been sleeping in the sewer for the past 3 years.
Of course the skies not falling…it doesn’t rain underground…which is where we have been at for awhile now. Other teams “buried” us the last 3 years. You don’t get much hope when your under piles of dirt.
Who gives two craps if Haley wants to call the plays..at this point it’s obvious that we are not the team I had hoped for yet, but that’s reality. I don’t care at this point if Spongebob calls the plays..we were 2-14…2-14…say that with me 2-14…
Cassel’s injury is going to set us back now for sure no matter what because the ever elusive “First Team” whoever they are, won’t be playing together until he’s back at practice. This whole thing sucks but hell, we knew we had miles to go before we even had the slimmest chance at respectability. This is all par for the course…
I just think the Herm like reference was totally ass backwards I guess. It’s night and day between the work ethic and the expectations and the scheming from Herm’s destructive reign here til now.
Pioli comes from outstanding experience. He can’t suck..It’s not possible…That’s like learning guitar from Joe Satriani and people still think you can’t cut it…NO WAY!!
Pioli is great at what he does…period…we’ll be fine..it just will mean time and effort that’s all.
I just think the Herm like reference was totally ass backwards I guess. It’s night and day between the work ethic and the expectations and the scheming from Herm’s destructive reign here til now
The most concerning thing to me is that he is doing the same thing Herm did when he got here. He took one look at LJ and decided we’re going to be a running team, no if, ands, or buts. There doesn’t seem to be any wriggle room in his philosophy judging by what I’ve seen, read, and heard so far. Will that change? Will less snaps be taken from under center to help the QB not get sacked (assuming the OL stays this bad, that is). He just seems like he wants to impose his will on the players here, when quite frankly, they’re just not that good to do that. Yes, they’re pro’s and getting paid to do what they do. But being an IT guy, I’ve looked at code other have written and been flabbergasted at how poorly written it was. They were professionals too, but did their job poorly.
I’m in NO WAY comparing his preparation and dedication to Herm. Haley is light years ahead of Herm in that department. I think that’s where he benefits from not having played “back in the day” where camp was a time to get in shape and learn the playbook. These guys have one job all year like normal folks do, stay fit and learn the plays assholes. We have different circumstances this year, obviously with coaching changes, scheme changes, etc, but next season if someone shows up out of shape and doesn’t have the basics down, I wouldn’t be surprised if they get effing flogged.
It’s surprising to me, that the OC from the Cardinals thought Whisenhunt, as well as Whisenhunt himself, thought that Whiz made a mistake calling his own plays on offense his first 2 years there. Now, Haley is doing the same thing.
I think it might have been you who said something about Haley calling the plays on offense that got the Cards to the superbowl. And while that’s true, that was his job there. They didn’t get too far with their fairly new HC calling the plays now did they?
Really good points.
But I still believe the Miami guys are guard replacements only and that Rt needs fixing.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Your right, the Ol is still the same as what we thought
and we thought it was terrible… give cassel off week one. does anyone truly believe that we have a realistic shot at winning? no chance
there's always a chance
Baltimore is no better than Minnesota. This team was competitive vs the Vikings, they will be competitive vs the Ravens.
I’m not saying it’s likely. But it’s insane to say “no chance”
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
we dont only play offense guys.
we play defense too – and last time i checked, balt’s offense isnt nothing we cant handle. maybe kickers decide that game? :)
that's a possibility
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Rec'd
I am tired of reading articles and comments of folks sayin the Chiefs should just throw in the towel vs the Ravens! “Thats Diddly Poo!” I dont care who is QB or any other position. They better play like they wanna win or why even gear up?! That goes for any football team. Not saying we are gonna go to the Superbowl, but really….its football- any given sunday!
I want K.C. Wolfs' job!
When something is "Diddly Poo" you know it's for real k?
That’s right up there with "hankerin’ and “noisey ruckus”. Words you just don’t use lightly. So no more negative comments about the Ravens game….I mean it….and that’s not just “diddly poo” either!!
Damn!
Now that’s what I call a FANPOST! Well done. rec’d
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
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