Stats Point to Brodie Croyle, Not Tyler Thigpen, as Chiefs Starting Quarterback
by Chris Thorman on Aug 31, 2009 6:54 AM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Training Camp
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PrintThree games and three losses for the Kansas City Chiefs.
The Chiefs have scored 10, 13 and 10 points respectively this preseason and much of that low offensive production has to do with the team's inability to convert third downs to first downs.
I really like looking at third down conversation percentage as a measure of how powerful and effective an offense is. If you're able to convert a high percentage of third downs (>50%), it means your team is able to gain yards when it wants to. It means you have a certain element of control over the defense when you're able to "will" your way to a good number of third down conversions. Bottom line - it means your offense is effective.
So far this preseason, the Chiefs were terribly ineffective at converting third downs in two of their three games. Against the Texans, the Chiefs were 3/13 on third down conversions. They improved greatly against the Vikings, going 8/15.
The problems worsened yesterday against the Seahawks though. The Chiefs were 1/10 on third downs. Simply terrible.
So what's the problem? Well, as we always say, it is preseason so don't take anything too concrete away from this. But 4/23 in two games on third down deserves some extra attention, preseason or not.
I've broken the third downs up by game and by quarterback, which as it turns out is pretty interesting. In the great debate of which quarterback should get the starting nod in place of the injured Matt Cassel, in my opinion the following information points to Brodie Croyle as the deserving QB.
Tyler Thigpen has not converted a third down this preseason, which makes me a bit nervous.
Looking at the following third down stats in the context of how every QB has looked so far, I'm strongly in the Brodie Croyle starter camp. I think Jason Cole's report from last night suggesting Tyler Thigpen was the assumed starter was based on a quick glance at Saturday's box score to see who came in after Cassel went down.
After the jump, I take a look at every third down so far this preseason for the Chiefs and see what we can find out.
Let us know in the comments how you think these stats should affect Todd Haley's quarterback decision.
How the Chiefs Converted Third Downs
Overall, the Kansas City Chiefs are 12/38 (31.6%) this preseason. Nine of those first downs came via passes and the other three were on the ground. Two of those rushing first downs were by Dantrell Savage and the other was by Jackie Battle. Larry Johnson does not have a rushing first down on third down this preseason.
The passing first downs were a varied mix of Cassel, Croyle and Gutierrez passes on 3rd and more than 5 yards to get the first down.
Let's take a quick look at each game's third downs.
Chiefs v. Texans (3/13 on Third Down)
| Game | Play |
| 1 | Matt Cassel (1/4) |
| 1 | 3-11-KC 22 (:43) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 81-D.Darling to KC 25 for 3 yards (98-C.Barwin). |
| 1 | 3-1-KC 29 (12:04) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short right to 89-S.Ryan. |
| 1 | 3-5-KC 24 (10:57) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short left to 10-T.Copper to KC 36 for 12 yards (32-F.Bennett). |
| 1 | 3-3-KC 21 (8:45) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short right to 10-T.Copper. PENALTY on HST-39-A.J.Davis, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at KC 21 - No Play. |
| 1 | 3-3-KC 43 (9:25) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short right to 10-T.Copper (41-B.McCain). |
| 1 | Brodie Croyle (1/5) |
| 1 | 3-1-KC 31 (:39) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short middle to 83-M.Bradley to KC 45 for 14 yards (27-M.Richardson). |
| 1 | 3-2-KC 20 (13:36) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 14-Q.Lawrence. PENALTY on HST-36-M.Parson, Defensive Pass Interference, 5 yards, enforced at KC 20 - No Play. |
| 1 | 3-5-KC 28 (3:50) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle sacked at KC 20 for -8 yards (98-C.Barwin). |
| 1 | 3-8-KC 27 (12:22) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short middle to 14-Q.Lawrence to KC 34 for 7 yards (36-M.Parson). |
| 1 | 3-4-HOU 25 (9:16) 12-B.Croyle pass short right to 29-D.Savage to HST 24 for 1 yard (27-M.Richardson). |
| 1 | 3-10-HOU 41 (:13) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 14-Q.Lawrence. |
| 1 | Tyler Thigpen (0/3) |
| 1 | 3-22-KC 35 (:33) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short middle to 14-Q.Lawrence (50-C.June). |
| 1 | 3-14-KC 13 (14:56) (Shotgun) 4-T.Thigpen pass short left to 9-T.Johnson to KC 20 for 7 yards (27-M.Richardson). |
| 1 | 3-5-KC 25 (2:20) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short right to 14-Q.Lawrence. Penalty on KC, Illegal Motion, declined. |
| 1 | 3-5-HOU 5 (6:32) (Shotgun) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short left to 80-J.Webb (27-M.Richardson). PENALTY on HST-27-M.Richardson, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at HST 5 - No Play. |
| 1 | Other |
| 1 | 3-1-KC 33 (1:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 29-D.Savage left guard to KC 47 for 14 yards (40-J.Busing). |
| 1 | 3-6-KC 27 (1:27) (Shotgun) PENALTY on KC-76-B.Albert, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 27 - No Play. |
One third down conversion for Cassel; one for Croyle; and one for Dantrell Savage. Not a whole lot to take away from this except to say that after watching this game, no quarterback had the offense in a real rhythm at any point.
Thigpen got himself into a bit more trouble with some longer third downs that ended up being drive killers for the Chiefs. Croyle did play pretty decently this game, going 12/18 for 145 yards.
This first game is definitely in Croyle's favor as Todd Haley selects a new starting quarterback this week.
Chiefs v. Vikings (8/15 on Third Downs)
| Game | Play |
| 2 | Matt Cassel (2/4) |
| 2 | 3-10-KC 44 (1:06) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel scrambles up the middle to KC 46 for 2 yards (30-A.Allen). |
| 2 | 3-14-KC 44 (2:13) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel sacked at KC 35 for -9 yards (22-B.Sapp). FUMBLES (22-B.Sapp), recovered by KC-[67o] at KC 33. |
| 2 | 3-15-KC 28 (4:48) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 25-J.Charles pushed ob at KC 48 for 20 yards (20-M.Williams). |
| 2 | 3-8-MIN 36 (8:29) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe to MIN 23 for 13 yards (20-M.Williams). Play Challenged by MIN and Upheld. (Timeout #1.) |
| 2 | Brodie Croyle (2/4) |
| 2 | 3-10-KC 30 (14:45) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short middle to 29-D.Savage to KC 37 for 7 yards (54-J.Brinkley). |
| 2 | 3-10-MIN 39 (7:39) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass deep middle to 13-A.Toomer to MIN 23 for 16 yards (24-M.Walker). |
| 2 | 3-5-MIN 46 (8:25) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass short left to 83-M.Bradley to MIN 39 for 7 yards (24-M.Walker). |
| 2 | 3-6-MIN 19 (5:46) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete short right to 29-D.Savage. |
| 2 | 3-9-KC 19 (11:11) (Shotgun) 12-B.Croyle pass incomplete deep middle to 14-Q.Lawrence. PENALTY on MIN-98-L.Guion, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at KC 19 - No Play. |
| 2 | Matt Gutierrez (2/3) |
| 2 | 3-10-KC 47 (2:26) (Shotgun) 15-M.Gutierrez pass short right to 9-T.Johnson to MIN 42 for 11 yards (41-K.Paymah). |
| 2 | 3-4-KC 40 (2:41) (Shotgun) 15-M.Gutierrez pass short right to 14-Q.Lawrence pushed ob at KC 47 for 7 yards (41-K.Paymah). |
| 2 | 3-4-KC 45 (6:35) 15-M.Gutierrez pass incomplete short right to 14-Q.Lawrence. |
| 2 | Other |
| 2 | 3-1-KC 39 (15:00) 26-J.Battle right end to KC 40 for 1 yard (99-O.Grigsby). PENALTY on KC, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at KC 40. Penalty on KC-43-T.Gafford, Unnecessary Roughness, declined. |
| 2 | 3-10-KC 33 (4:48) (Shotgun) PENALTY on KC-67-P.Walters, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 33 - No Play. |
| 2 | 3-1-KC 42 (1:40) (Shotgun) 29-D.Savage right guard to KC 44 for 2 yards (96-B.Robison). |
| 2 | 3-1-KC 43 (10:20) 26-J.Battle up the middle to KC 49 for 6 yards (54-J.Brinkley). |
| 2 | 3-1-MIN 1 (:21) 26-J.Battle up the middle to MIN 1 for no gain (61-M.Burnett, 73-J.Kennedy). |
| 2 | 3-1-MIN 14 (6:44) 27-L.Johnson right guard to MIN 14 for no gain (52-C.Greenway). |
Every Chiefs quarterback had success on third downs against the Minnesota Vikings. A +50% conversion rate is solid. There were a couple rushing stuffs on third and short, which seems to be an issue of increasing severity as we further scrutinize this offensive line.
About half of the third to first down conversions occurred because of great plays by Jamaal Charles, Amani Toomer and Dwayne Bowe.
Obviously, based on Thigpen not playing, Croyle again gets a step ahead on the starting job next week.
Chiefs v. Seahawks (1/10)
| Game | Play |
| 3 | Tyler Thigpen (0/6) |
| 3 | 3-1- (7:15) 4-T.Thigpen FUMBLES (Aborted) at 50, recovered by KC-27-L.Johnson at KC 47. |
| 3 | 3-11-KC 45 (12:24) 4-T.Thigpen right end to KC 48 for 3 yards (97-P.Kerney). |
| 3 | 3-13-KC 10 (2:22) (Shotgun) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short left to 25-J.Charles. |
| 3 | 3-13-KC 37 (3:55) (Shotgun) 4-T.Thigpen scrambles left end pushed ob at KC 44 for 7 yards (27-J.Babineaux). |
| 3 | 3-1-SEA 49 (1:13) 4-T.Thigpen pass short middle to 82-D.Bowe to SEA 46 for 3 yards (31-K.Lucas). PENALTY on SEA-24-D.Grant, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 49 - No Play. |
| 3 | 3-5-KC 32 (9:17) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short middle to 82-D.Bowe (51-L.Tatupu). |
| 3 | 3-7-SEA 10 (13:50) 4-T.Thigpen pass incomplete short right to 82-D.Bowe (21-K.Jennings). |
| 3 | Matt Gutierrez (1/3) |
| 3 | 3-10-KC 18 (2:54) (Shotgun) 15-M.Gutierrez pass short middle to 11-R.Wright to KC 34 for 16 yards (52-D.Lewis). |
| 3 | 3-22-KC 49 (1:13) (Shotgun) 15-M.Gutierrez pass intended for 13-A.Toomer INTERCEPTED by 54-W.Herring at SEA 38. 54-W.Herring to SEA 45 for 7 yards (29-D.Savage). |
| 3 | 3-9-SEA 18 (12:33) (Shotgun) 15-M.Gutierrez pass short right to 26-J.Battle to SEA 17 for 1 yard (59-A.Curry). |
| 3 | Other |
| 3 | 3-2-SEA 49 (5:27) 27-L.Johnson up the middle to SEA 48 for 1 yard (92-B.Mebane). |
| 3 | 3-5-KC 23 (3:30) (Shotgun) PENALTY on KC-41-T.Crabtree, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 23 - No Play. |
The bottom line right now is that Tyler Thigpen has not converted a third down this preseason in two games of action. That's a bit scary.
What do you say to that? I hope he converts his first third down in the regular season? I don't know.
Even before you mention Brodie Croyle, it's pretty clear right now that Tyler Thigpen is not able to run this offense effectively for two quarters, let alone an entire game. He's reverted to the original Tyler Thigpen we saw early last season against the Falcons. The guy who made you gasp every time he threw the ball over 10 yards.
The clock may have struck midnight for Tyler Thigpen after this preseason.
***
Make sure you vote in the poll and let us know who you think should be the Kansas City Chiefs' starting quarterback in Week 1 of the 2009 regular season.
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Thigpen
I am going with Thigpen, not because he is the best QB but because he is probably the only one that would survive the game against Baltimore. It would sacrifice Croyle in the first week, I don’t think he would last past the first series against that D with our O-line.
We can go with the other QBs first but we will still end up with Thigpen taking most of the snaps after the others are taken away on the cart.
That's where I'm at, too.
I will admit that I like Thiggy. I’d take him over Croyle in most any situation (though, watching that game the other night makes me have my doubts).
However, you have to consider who else is on the field and, given our offensive line’s inability to stop anyone and given the tenacity of Baltimore’s defense, putting Brodie out there would result in simply an injured Brodie and Tyler going into the game anyway.
We don’t need to start the season already down two quarterbacks.
fixed it for you =)
We don’t need to start the season already down two quarterbacks [again].
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 31, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we're forgetting
that Croyle too was touted for his mobility, not so great as a former running back (Thigpen), but he’s no Trent Green, either. (Feel free to explain all the ways he is “no Trent Green”). I still like Brodie Croyle, I think the kid can play. Trent (staying with the theme), had some pretty good years after his knee.
I think Thigpen is 1. not the style of quarterback the decision-makers want, 2. unproven as the style of quarterback we’re all labeling him. Too many unknowns for the current regime to make him a starter.
I like Thigpen, BUT...
… like and dislike are opinions. Not converting a single 3rd down is a fact! Thigpen will not be the #2 QB this year.
Coach made it very clear in his press conference Saturday night that he places 3rd down conversion success at the feet of the QB and Thiggy had ZERO. I’m not saying he’ll be traded, but he isn’t the #2 QB. I hope he finds a team that works with the skill set he possesses, but the Chiefs aren’t that team.
I hate it when I'm right.
Thigpen isn’t pretty, he hasn’t been that great, but he also hasn’t (seemingly) had that many chances to work with the first team either.
I don’t care who goes out there to be the QB, Everyone is going to go through there at some point and get their dick put in the dirt. All the people voting Brodie Croyle, why do you all think he didn’t get any time last night? He got knocked around by the Vikings and was hurt is my assumption, regardless of what was on the injury report or the so-called reasoning behind it. Croyle can play a few snaps with this offensive line, but he won’t stay upright, which means he won’t stay in the game.
Hell, give Guitierez a shot even. But the offense won’t work for him just like the two before him. He’ll get his shit stomped, and we’ll be crawling back to Thigpen to save the day again.
Like it or not, the Chiefs are in terrible shape offensively, they’re in the SAME PLACE AS LAST YEAR. Is the sky falling? No, but nothing has been done to keep it from falling either. I don’t care that Dolphin scrubs were brought in. I don’t care they’re shaking things up on the offensive line. I care that it took 2 preseason games for them to see how bad the line still was from center to right tackle. They’ve not upgraded from what they had, they just got some similar talent with a shiny tag on them to make them appealing.
Similarly, Mike Goff. Love the guy, happy he came in and busted his ass. But he looks best suited as a backup, temporary relief, or retired. He doesn’t have it like he did, and that’s why he was picked up off the street.
I think it’s sort of, call it poetic justice, that Todd Haley tell Waters he could win with 22 guys off the street. Now, Haley is getting people killed with the few guys he’s gotten off the street.
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Answer
All the people voting Brodie Croyle, why do you all think he didn’t get any time last night? He got knocked around by the Vikings and was hurt is my assumption
The game plan was Thigpen the whole time. Brodie wasn’t hurt. He wasn’t scheduled to play.
by Joel Thorman on Aug 31, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Rhetorical question :)
answered it myself
He got knocked around by the Vikings and was hurt is my assumption, regardless of what was on the injury report or the so-called reasoning behind it
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There's a pattern
They are only playing 3 guys each week with a rotation in the #2-3 spots.
Week 1 – Cassel, Croyle, Thigpen
Week 2 – Cassel, Croyle, Gut
Week 3 – Cassel, Thigpen, Gut
My take is that Cassel was already the starter regardless of what Haley says. Then between the other 3 guys they were each given 2 games to state their case for making the team. Had Cassel not been injured, I think they would of liked to trade Thigpen this week so that for the final preseason game they could of just played the 3 guys that will make the team. Now I’m guessing they’ll go Croyle, Thigpen, Gut this week. My biggest frustration with the Cassel injury is that we will probably miss out on getting anything for whatever QB doesn’t make the team when Cassel comes back.
The Good: Hiring Pioli and Haley, Drafting Tyson Jackson
The Bad: The Offensive Line Play
The Ugly: Thigpen Trying to Play QB
My take is that Cassel was already the starter regardless of what Haley says.
I agree there, and think he should be (barring injury of course).
Then between the other 3 guys they were each given 2 games to state their case for making the team.Good point, and good observation. Hadn’t considered that.
Had Cassel not been injured, I think they would of liked to trade Thigpen this week so that for the final preseason game they could of just played the 3 guys that will make the team.
I’m with you there, not what I would have done considering Croyle and his history. I would still prefer Croyle be traded because in reality, he can’t reliably back up a guy with this line the way it is.
My biggest frustration with the Cassel injury is that we will probably miss out on getting anything for whatever QB doesn’t make the team when Cassel comes back.
Gutierrez doesn’t make much sense to me, he seems just ok. I just don’t see how they continue down the path they’re on with the offense without doing something more with the line. Was Tyson Jackson really more important than Matt Cassel being healthy???
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The reason Croyle didn't play is because he has already shown what he can do.
They no longer need to evaluate him. He has shown that he is a MUCH better QB than Thigpen and he will most likely be named our starter for the first couple of games. If Cassel is gone, Croyle is our best QB, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Can he play w/o geting hurt? time will tell but, unless you are Nostradomus or some shit, I don’t think you should put a lesser player out there just because you “think” he is going to get hurt.
Thigpen has also shown what he can do as a QB. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! He is a terrible QB. You can throw statistics at me all you want but, unless he is playing in the Arrowspread, he cant do anything. We don’t run the Arrowspread anymore and he has no place on this team.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 31, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
We didn't run the ArrowSpread the first few weeks last year, either.
It isn’t like it was particularly hard to install and run effectively. Just because we’re not running it right now, that doesn’t mean that we won’t plug it in at some point in the near future.
We didn’t install it because it was the only thing Thigpen could run. We installed it to give all of our QBs a little bit extra time and a greater chance of survival behind an offensive line that sucked.
Well, our offensive line still sucks. We just lost Cassel because our right side couldn’t stop anyone and Waters couldn’t get over to help (not that we should really expect him to, he’s one man not three). It makes sense to plug the ArrowSpread back in and run it until we figure out or O-line problems.
Welcome to SillyLand
Saint lives there!!! Anyone else who thinks Thigpen can run an offense or that the O-line is somehow the fault of a man who has had 1 draft and offseason to correct it, there are houses (with padded walls and jello pops) waiting for you, JOIN TODAY!!!! SAINT is waiting for you!!!!!
Chiefs FTW
That man
brought in a $63 million quarterback and did NOTHING in the first part of the draft to keep him healthy. I’m surprised the Vikings didn’t kill him and Croyle.
I like jello pops. And padded walls are fun to bounce on.
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not time to panic
yes, I’m saying it… the OL is NOT as bad as you guys and the media are saying.
it’s VERY early, not even regular season. They haven’t even played (or identified) the whole 1st team OL for longer than a quarter yet.
just like the stock market, you guys are freaking out and throwing in the towel on any improvement just because Cassel got hurt. Injuries happen, even with great OLs.
Yes, this line is a work in progress, but it’s not as catastrophic as everyone is wanting to say this morning
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
oh, yeah and the QB
should be Croyle, with Guit ready to step in when he gets hurt… not because the OL is that bad…but because he’s Croyle.
Thigpen should still be traded, and I really believe he will be
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
I think
Thigpen hurt his trade value Saturday. The Jags picked up some bum QB, but after what we saw, they could assume Thigpen gets cut.
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do you think
they were waiting to see how he performed in a preseason game vs Seattle to determine whether to trade for him or not?
there’s no way an NFL organization runs that way.
They had all of last year’s tape on him, and scouting reports, etc. They made the trade offer before he played, I doubt if they pulled it off the table just because he had a subpar PRESEASON game.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Got to be Croyle
Croyle is the best back up we have that is best suited to run the offense we plan to run all year with Cassel. Again, not talkin gabout last year with Herm, but this year with Pioli, Croyle has looked better than Thigpen running our offense in my opinion.
Croyle performed mostly against 2nd team defense when he was in so I think it essential that he gets the ball on the first drive against the Rams. Chances are the Rams will play their starters for at least a series. Croyle needs to get those first team snaps. Thankfully he has thrown to Bowe before so at least there is some history there and hopefully some chemistry.
Now, if the coaching staff thinks Croyle cannot survive in our offense and that Matt G isn’t ready then I think they should revert back to the Arrowspread and go with Thigpen. Thigpen can do some things back there in the gun and if our defense plays well me might have a shot to win a game in it. Probably not Baltimore but Oakland if Cassel isn’t back by then.
I think they should go with Croyle for Baltimore. I think they should instal a lot of cretive screens and slants. I think the plan should be to pound the ball with the runninjg backs and make quick, short throws to get rid of the ball. Don’t make mistakes, no long drop backs. Run draws in obvious passing situations so Croyle doesn’t get killed.
Remember we have a kicker with a leg. If we can get in FG range enough times and play tough D we could have a shot. it is smart game planning that is going to beat the Ravens not the QB no matter who it is.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
well said
The Good: Hiring Pioli and Haley, Drafting Tyson Jackson
The Bad: The Offensive Line Play
The Ugly: Thigpen Trying to Play QB
But not well typed.
I am not a good typer as it is but I shouldn’t write so much before I have finished my first cup of coffee.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 31, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
i emphatically agree
Not a Croyle fan in the least, but you go with the hot arm, and right now its Brokie.
"I will fight you!"
"What is your weapon?"
"My bare hands!"
"That is stupid. I will use a sword and I will cut off your bare hands."
by CT Chief Fan on Aug 31, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
wasnt this
the game plan for new england last year?? timing routes, draws, and screens??
i think it will work better against baltimore this year with croyle and JC running the screens
a win against baltimore with that game plan is a long shot, but not a hail mary
by chiefsandcigars on Aug 31, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I think so
nearly worked on NE too. They were tying to keep the offense off the field as much as possible and create long drives. It worked ok. Croyle was doing fine. Now, Herm needed to let him throw down field a little more than he was. Also, the running game wasn’t doing anything so when he was throwing screens on 3rd down it was 3rd and 8 instead of 3rd and 3.
Our defense seems to be better this year as well.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 31, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Pioli is done
I would not be surprised to see a major trade in the next day or two. I wouldn’t put it passed the Don to go trade for a solid RT and C.
To be onest I woul drather trade that 2nd round pick we got for TG for a young offensive lineman who is already set. Don’t know if he could pull it off though.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
There's something you need to put down, Chris.
Ridiculous Upside: All the "Almost NBA" info you can handle!
by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions
I submit to you
What’s more important, completing third downs or touchdowns?
“Hey, look at that! Brodie completed 5 out of 9 third downs!”
“But all the others resulted in sacks in the red zone. Tyler has scored touchdowns!”
“DO YOU NOT SEE THE THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS! YOU! PLAY! TO! COMPLETE! THIRD! DOWNS!”
Ridiculous Upside: All the "Almost NBA" info you can handle!
by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 31, 2009 8:15 AM CDT reply actions
Stop yelling.It doesn't help his case.
Tyler had his shot.He didn’t win the starter position and as I predicted last season he’s 2nd (at best)
and more likely 3rd string material.
It doesn’t matter what we think…it matters what Haley sees. It’s the same things I commented on last season and was accused no less of calling Thigpen a bum…which I never did.
His accuracy and long balls are suspect. Brodie has the better arm and if/when he gets hurt Tyler can have is shot and better his 1 win record.
Before people start arguing anything on his behalf I’ll wait for Haley to announce the final QB depth chart.
1.Cassell
2.Croyle
3.Thigpen
4.Guttierez
Of course that’ll depend on whether we get another QB in the meantime as to whether he drops down the list.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Aug 31, 2009 9:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Chiefs are screwed
Whats that 2010 draft board looking like?
“With the number one pick, the KC Chiefs select…….???”
I'd rather die on my feet than be living on my knees
The only way Thigpen starts
is if we for some reason decide to go with the Arrowspread in a drastic move with Haley and Pioli seeing first hand and therefore coming to the realization our offensive line is really that> bad. Gailey was like “well I have an idea…”
Other than the above scenario I assume Croyle will start. Unless we want to lose to Baltimore.
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So Croyle
will start the first series against Baltimore before he’s carted off the field and the Chiefs will win? WOO HOO!!!
:)
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Here's a serious question.
Can Brodie Croyle, and I do mean, Brodie F’ing Croyle, be the difference between a win and a loss versus Baltimore? You know, playoff team with terrifying defense? With all the problems this team has, is he really the difference between a win and a loss?
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by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 31, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions
YES!
You put the best player on the field in a siuation like this and Croyle IS the best player.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 31, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Matt
I respect your opinion. i really do. Thigpen played greatlast year. I love Thiggy. I have, hjowever, listened to the opinions of some of the other folks around here and I watched for some of their concerns when Thigpen has played this preseason. They are correct.
Thigpen has not been as accurate as Croyle in this offense in this preseason. He has not been as efficient. I have noticed that Thigpen pulls the ball down much to quick. His job is to be a passer first. He should not be running unless there is not other option or it is be design.
Thigpen could totally lead the Chiefs to victory over the Raiders but not the Ravens.
The Ravens have an amazing set of fast, smart line backers. Thigpen is not going to be able to punk them like he did some other teams last year. With our weaknesses at O Line, a team like the Ravens will get a pass rush with just 4 guys rushing and i promise you, if THigpen takes off one of those other 3 elite NFL Linebackers are going to get to him and they are goign to get to him quickly.
Our best hope against a D like Baltimore’s is a pocket passer who can stand in the back in the pocket and deliver the ball with accuracy. Croyle is a more accurate passer than Thigpen and there really is no arguing that point.
The Ravens are going to blitz the crap out of Thigpen and force him to beat them with his arm and I assure you, he cannot. Croyle throwing safe, accurate passes and a strong running game is our best chance against a playoff caliber team like the Ravens.
remember, this isn’t last years team. There is no Tongy G roaming over the middle and Thigpen won’t be playing out of the spread. As far as I can tell the Chiefs are going to stick with their offense to start the year and Croyle is the best QB we have to run that offense.
Don’t worry though, there is an excellent chance that Croyle will get injured, given hjis history and our line play. If that happens Thigpen will be put in anyway.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 31, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Awesome.
Don’t worry though, there is an excellent chance that Croyle will get injured, given hjis history and our line play. If that happens Thigpen will be put in anyway.
And we’ll then start the year down two quarterbacks instead of just one. Awesome.
I'd rather start with the QB
who gives us the best chance to win and hope he makes it through than the guy who is goign to be Mr. 3 and out and throw picks on the run, which in this offense I assure you, Thigpen will.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 31, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Thigpen is kinda like Charles
He’ll do something great, then screw it up.
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I think we have a nice solution for all this
I think we all know the answer here.
DOUBLE SHOTGUN.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 31, 2009 8:52 AM CDT reply actions
Hello nail.
you’ve just been hit on the head.
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Straight snaps to Charles
who laterals to Croyle, reverse to Bradley. Who then THROWS A TD TO THIGPEN. That’s all they need in the playbook, lol.
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QUENTIN LAWRENCE IN THE DOUBLE REVERSE .................................
with a lateral back to Charles, who flings it to Brokie who takes off downfield
Cassel, Croyle, Gutierrez.
If Cassel is injured, Croyle plays and then Guttierez. Thigpen is odd man out and may yet be traded.
I think this correct
Haley is not impressed with Thigpen, that much is clear. He runs at the first sign of the pocket collapsing. You can tell Haley is pretty much in love with Cassell’s game, which is stand in the pocket for a long as possible, checking off your receivers, and eat the ball if nothing is there or pull it down and take off after checking off every receiever.
I haven’t seen much of Croyle, being from New England, but I know that’s pretty much Gutierrez’s game as well, and it’s clearly not Thigpen’s.
I'm still in between with regards to Tyler and Guttierez
It’s close, but I give the nod to Tyler at this point in time, however Haley might see things differently (as you point out).
I anticipate this poll is close to Haley’s thinking, but we’ll see.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Wheres Casey Printers?
Ill take him over Thigpen or Croyle
I'd rather die on my feet than be living on my knees
At the grocery store trying to find chicken salad ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
BTW...that's a reference to "Hard Knocks" from last year for those that aren't privy to the show.
That one sticks out and I tend to use that line in reference to 6-26 from the last 2 seasons.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I say we use Shotgun formation with Croyle at QB.
The kid, when healthy, can play. I give him the nod over Gut based on starting experience…he’s been in this position before. Aside from Gut, Croyle is the most accurate passer we have and has a cannon arm. Only problem is, he seems to struggle reading defenses. Hopefully he’ll do better.
Gut
looked pretty sharp in his play thus far. Vs Seattle he had two pics but one was a blown route and the other was a last second all or nothing gamble. He moved the offense efficiently and, as someone else pointed out on here earlier, a sense of normalcy came back to the offense when he replaced Thigpen. I doubt he starts week 1 but i think he easily starts a game before this season is over.
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