Arrowhead Pride: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

The Kansas City Chiefs Just Aren't Very Good

Ryan_Succop_medium
Kansas City Chiefs kicker Ryan Succop (6) misses a field goal during the first half of their preseason NFL football game against the Seattle Seahawks in Kansas City, Mo., Saturday, Aug. 29, 2009. (AP Photo/Reed Hoffmann)

Preseason games are mostly meaningless.... Except when your team has won 6 games in the previous two years.

You knew tonight was going to suck when you saw Matt Cassel running for his life in a collapsing pocket and being twisted down to the ground and immediately clutch his knee.  I got the exact same sick feeling in my stomach that I got last year in the Patriots game when Adalius Thomas slammed Brodie Croyle into the turf separating his shoulder.  The feeling that yet another season will be wasted because the offensive line couldn't protect the guy it was all riding on.

They say Cassel's injury is a sprain.  At one point during the game the announcers said he'd be back next week, though a few minutes before they said Cassel couldn't even get down the few stairs to the trainers room without assistance.  By the end of the telecast, they were saying it was highly unlikely Cassel would play next week because of the short week.  To me it sounds like nobody has the slightest clue how long he will be out. 

But does it matter?  Give it a few weeks and Cassel could end up getting the "injury prone" label just like Croyle playing behind this offensive line.  Injuries to Chiefs QBs didn't start with Croyle.  We sometimes forget Trent Green's career as an effective NFL QB being ended the first game after Willie Roaf's retirement as he was scrambling away from a collapsing pocket.  Damon Huard was frequently beat around to the point he was being held out of weeks worth of practices at a time so he could physically recover.  Even young, stocky Thigpen has had plenty of nagging injuries from taking hits he should never have had to take.


So obviously the offensive line is a problem.  But why the hell didn't Master of the Universe Pioli, in a draft class that included two Centers taken in the 1st round and four in the first three, as well as a plethora of excellent Right Tackle prospects, see fit to bring in some of that young talent to protect his hand picked franchise quarterback?

Instead, we are seeing musical chairs on the offensive line... AGAIN.  Damion McIntosh was moved over to RT, but practiced most of the week with the 2nd team at LEFT tackle.  However when tonight's game started, he was back at RT again.  They thought enough of Barry Richardson, who has been working at RT the last couple years, to give him the opportunity to start.  His performance wasn't great by any means, but how about giving the guy more than one chance?  Maybe he was nervous?  Instead, he doesn't come in until the mop up action at the end of the game against a bunch of future Canadian Football League players at LEFT tackle.  

He goes from potentially being the starting RT one week to being kicked completely out of his position the next?  Really, how does that happen?  Offensive line flip-flopping.  Didn't we learn a couple years ago that that was a bad idea?  It almost seems like they are hinging their bets on these couple of Miami Dolphins scrubs we recently got developing into the starting right side of the line.  Though we haven't seen anything of them that looked all that impressive.

Anyways, here are my notes on tonight's farce:

Star-divide

The game wasn't half as close as the score indicated.  The Seahawks treated the Chiefs like the submissive in one of Sex Assassins home movies.

Brandon Flowers - I was thinking the reason we didn't see him the rest of the night was because Haley told him he earned his Arrowhead with the pick 6.  Hell no.  He injured his shoulder.  One of the very few guys who has played consistently well the entire preseason and he gets hurt.  Nobody has any idea how serious it was.  Personally I have no clue how or when it happened.

Tyler Thigpen - Is anyone REALLY going to give us a 5th round pick for this guy?  Honestly, I will be surprised if he doesn't get cut outright.  8/15 passing for 56 yards (a whopping 7 yards per completion) and was 0/7 on third downs while Thigpen was in the game.  There were a handful of good throws, but mostly he just throws the ball up for grabs.  Sometimes the Chiefs receivers bring it down.  The guy never sets his feet to pass which usually means the passes sail high.

Pass Rush (or lack there of) - For the majority of the night there was very little pressure on the QB.  They could sit back in the pocket for four or five seconds without a Chiefs pass rusher near them and wait for a receiver to find the hole in the zone.  There were a few exceptions, but for the most part there wasn't any consistent pressure on the Seattle QBs until the 4th quarter offensive line scrubs came in.

Ryan Succop -   Succop has kicked VERY well this preseason.  But tonight the thing that was held against him in college came up again.  Missing a 28 yard kick is ridiculous.  I don't hold the other miss against him.  That was a very long kick and it was straight enough, just came up a half foot too short.  It doesn't matter how many you make in practice.  Its the ones in the game that count.  By my count, Succop is a 66% kicker in games so far.

Linebackers - They stink in pass coverage.  Period.  Everyone likes Mayes, and for good reason, he has made some really nice plays.  But he is bad in pass coverage, as is the rest of the group.  In a 3-4 defense, thats not good at all.  Tonight Seattle receivers were wide open all night long while the Chiefs were playing zone (and 3-4 defenses tend to play a lot of zone because they blitz so often).  The linebackers simply were not covering their pass coverage responsibilities and Seattle ran all over us.

Offensive Line - Aside from the pass protection gripe that I started this post with, the middle to Right side of the line is just horrible in run blocking.  Watch when they run the ball and pay attention to where the RB gets hit in relation to the blue line the TV broadcasters put up to indicate the line of scrimmage.  The Chiefs middle of the line get their asses handed to them on every running play getting pushed into the backfield.  The RBs are getting hit behind the line of scrimmage on practically every play.  Watch a team with a decent to good offensive line and even on a play where you THINK the RB was pretty much stopped as soon as he hit the hole, they are gaining 4 or 5 yards.  That's because their offensive line is pushing our guys out 3 or 4 yards.  The RB is making 3 yards before he even hits the hole!
The middle of the line is getting beat so bad that when Waters pulls, he is almost always late getting to the other side because he either has to circle around Rudy Niswanger getting pushed into the backfield or runs into him.

Jamaal Charles - Charles has the ability to still play well even with a shitty offensive line because he has cutback ability.  That's why Charles still had a pretty damn good game while LJ is still stuck getting three yards at a time.  That's not an indictment of LJ.  He is the type of RB that needs a hole to run through.  He's not the kind that can run into the back of his offensive line and then just cut it back the other way and turn it into a big gain.  Luckily Charles is.  If they can just get him to hang on to the damn ball.

Quinten Lawrence- I've been on this guys case for the last several weeks about his drops from being afraid to be hit over the middle, so I need to give him his due when he does good.  Lawrence had a pretty decent game, though I did notice they didn't try to throw to him over the middle at all.

Plays that pissed me off - Tyson Jackson got his first sack and I thought "Awesome! This guys a beast!".  Then a couple plays later he's down in his stance and looks behind him for some reason and the offense snaps the ball.  The dude was still in his stance for probably 2 or 3 whole seconds while the play was in progress.  Pat attention man!
Amani Toomer.  God.  Towards the end of the game the Chiefs are in their hurry up offense trying to preserve time and everyone on the offense is lined up ready to go, but the snap was held up as Amani Toomer jogs down the field, has to go up to the QB and ask what the play is.  If Toomers in that bad of shape, they need to cut his ass.  If he's so old he can't get back in time to run a snap, we don't need him on the team.

***

Overall there was very little good that I saw in this game.  The final score was 14-10, but it might as well have been the 45-7 spanking New Orleans gave the Raiders.  If not for Flowers pick six, the Chiefs would have never sniffed the end zone.  Seattle walked all over us on offense both in the passing and running games and our offense was completely inept. 

It's not necessarily the coaching folks.  There is a serious dearth of talent on this team in key positions and both the previous and current regimes seem incapable of filling them.  right tackle, right guard, apex pass rusher, linebacker.  These have been holes for a couple years now and they continue to be.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

6 recs  |  Comment 152 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Taken this game a little too serious...

This is why the pre-season exists…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

There are glaring problems with this team, still, after a Pioli overhaul

Thank You Carl Peterson for drafting Dustin Colquitt

by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 29, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I take it you didn't like what u saw o the first team?

The difference between a good and bad day, isn't what changes in your day...It's what changes in you.

by rdubz on Aug 29, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"After" ???

This is a work in progress my friend. Give the guy a season at least.

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 29, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen

Giving Pioli one draft and then judging it before the preseason is over is going beyond ridiculous! That’s not even an oil change much less an overhaul.

by Big Chief on Aug 29, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...

How could you NOT expect that there would be…honestly…

2-14 cannot be turned around in one offseason…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we are making some strides.

We got a sack tonight!

The difference between a good and bad day, isn't what changes in your day...It's what changes in you.

by rdubz on Aug 29, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't expect it to be turned around in one season

But it would be nice to see a team on the field that didn’t look like it was going to go 2-14 again, which they did tonight.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude...

One team in all the bad teams to rebuild their franchise…

They also have not shown that it is a real turn-around or if it was the product of other things…Example not valid as anything more than a one year wonder…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 30, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Whats that thing about monkeys and a typewriter, or maybe it was squirrels and nuts? Whatever. The point is they may have caught lightning in a bottle last year, we’ll see..

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's "A million monkeys with a million typewriters...

…will eventually result in a monkey having sex with William Shakespeare".

Also, a million typewriters with a million Shakespeares will result in a monkey having sex with William Shakespeare.

Poor Shakespeare.

Rectal Froth

by The Donger on Aug 30, 2009 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO!!!

Do you feel like Shakespeare tonight too?

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In preseason

its not all about winning. I don’t care if they win. I want to see signs of players being good and of the offensive and defensive units getting something done.

If you’re a crappy team in the preseason, you don’t automatically become a good one in the regular season. This is a team full of guys that supposedly, if you believe Haley, are fighting for their jobs and they still play bad.

There are big problems that have been big problems for years now that still are big problems.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I, personally, am most befuddled by the fumbles...

are they just ignoring the techniques that are coached daily!? What in the name of me…?

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats the thing

When Herm was the coach, everyone said it was all because Herm was soft and he wasn’t teaching them right.

Well Haley is the anti-Herm. He talks tough, benches players if they don’t do things his way and we STILL have the same problems. That’s what I’ve been saying for two years. Its not just the coaching. There are serious personnel problems with this team and its the same personnel problems we’ve had for years.

Haley’s get tough approach does no more good than Herms “give-a-guy-a-hug” approach if the players they have to work with simply aren’t that good.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll Disagree With That

If only because I thought the Chiefs teams of the last two years were in obviously pathetic physical condition (as evidenced by the constant 2nd half collapses). If he’s done nothing else, at least he’s gotten them into shape. As for the rest, guess we’ll see when the season kicks off and the games count. I’m still not reading too much into preseason.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks UC.

I think the defensive talent is pretty good. Biggest issue is players sticking to their assignments and trusting their teammates to stick to theirs. More signs that this is starting to happen, but still looking pretty vulnerable to reverses, bootlegs, play fakes, and the like.

We haven’t seen the LB corps on the field with both Thomas and Vrabel playing smart and helping their teammates play smart. Plenty of signs that the d-line is going to give them what they need to prosper.

Studebaker’s playing pretty smart for a rook. Very encouraging.

My biggest worry on the D side is if the d-backs can play aggressively enough to complement up-the-field style of play from LBs. And if the LBs are gonna play THAT style, they oughta be smacking anything that looks like an eligible receiver at the line, and not give anybody a free release.

And I agree with you on the conditioning, and something people here might not be thinking about. That conditioning will become a much bigger factor when the roster’s down to 53 and they only suit up 40-some players on game day. I’m looking forward to seeing Charles get some carries early and LJ to just beat ’em to a pulp in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

We have held the opponents down at times this preseason and I think the Chiefs 53 will be better than a number of teams this year.
Now just get the Damn CB’s up in press coverage. My word it can’t be worse than this 7 yard cushion in end result IMO!

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 30, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Agree With Everything You Wrote

Well, except for the bit about Thigpen. Was he terrible? Absolutely…but then he supposedly hasn’t gotten a lot of reps in practice and even good QBs struggle when they don’t get their practice time. I still think he’s a better bet than Croyle.

But you’re dead on about the o-line. I like Tyson Jackson…he’s a talented player and quality 3-4 ends aren’t that easy to find in the draft. But they made a pretty significant investment in Cassel, he’s the focal point of this offense and letting the o-line go unaddressed like they did is pretty unforgiveable. Did they really need Jackson more than they needed a RT to keep Cassel upright? Did they really need Alex Magee more than one of the four linemen taken just after him in the third round? I think not.

There’s a common factor in organizations…good ones set their best people up for success (New England, Pittsburgh) and bad ones set their people up to fail (Cleveland, Detroit). Personally, I’d rather see the Chiefs learn from the failures of teams like Cleveland (whose treatment of franchise QB Tim Couch is a textbook example of how not to handle your QB) rather than learn those lessons the hard way when they don’t need to.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are people making excuses for Thigpen?

Dude fucking sucks. I don’t care if they cut him and we don’t get anything. (like anybody would give us a draft pick after that fiasco )

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 29, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

a) It’s preseason and Thigpen’s spent most of it getting very few snaps,
b) There’s nothing to replace him with. Croyle sucks and can’t stay healthy. Seriously, as bad as Thigpen is at times he’s shown a ceiling a hell of a lot higher than Croyle’s ever displayed in a Chiefs uniform, and
c) Because I said the same thing about him last year only to see him turn into a serviceable QB with some extra playing time so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thigpen

only did decently because Gailey tailored the offense around him and then Gonzalez explained to him how it worked. I’ve never seen a QB play as bad as Thigpen did in those early games last year. He made Blackledge look good.

My take is that unless Guit shows he’s a solid back up, they keep Croyle and get another solid journeyman backup once the cuts come around. Croyle can play, he just needs to show he can stay healthy. But you can’t rely on him for a season in case Cassell gets hurt.

by Big Chief on Aug 30, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The whole team played bad

Everyone just looked off for some reason. Thigpen looked bad but so did G-man he threw two int’s and their Qb’s had over 5 seconds to find someone open so they were just picking apart our DB’s.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 30, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, Here's The Thing
Croyle can play, he just needs to show he can stay healthy

He’s been injury-prone since high school. He’s had three ACL reconstructions (among other injuries) since high school. He’s consistently missed games since high school. And he’s never been able to stay healthy for two games in a row in a four year pro career so he can’t be trusted to take over even for a few games because he can’t stay health that long.

He’s not going to magically change into a guy who can take a pounding. I honestly have no idea why all you Croyle devotees refuse to see this.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 30, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a training camp PHEEnom.

Nice mechanics, pretty good footwork, yada yada.

Thiggie looked bad Saturday. He didn’t practice all week after taking a late hit that drew a flag. Hard to say just how sore he still was in the shoulder/ribs. I’m kinda glad, in a twisted way, because a trade is less likely and the Chiefs, after the Cassel scare, might be less likely to release him. I still want to see him keep developing as a Chief, if at all possible.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

c) Because I said the same thing about him last year only to see him turn into a serviceable QB with some extra playing time so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You’re right, but the problem I have with that is that they completely abandoned the offense they worked the entire offseason and preseason in order to make Thigpen succesful. And though it did make Thigpen succesful, it didn’t make the rest of the guys on the team succesful nor did the team win.

I just don’t get the sense that if Haley was down to Thigpen as the only QB left on his roster that he would abandon his entire offensive scheme to suit him.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

There were factors behind that record other than Thigpen. You can’t really lay it all on him. As it was, he was actually a relative strength of the team. The pitiful defense had as much or more to do with it than offensive problems.

I just don’t get the sense that if Haley was down to Thigpen as the only QB left on his roster that he would abandon his entire offensive scheme to suit him.

Maybe not, but I think he would consider it if it were necessary to win.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 30, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can't run a pro-style offense with any QB

if the line continues to suck this much. If we want Cassel to live past the bye week, we’ll need to go Arrowspread again.

I won’t blame Bones for having “Happy feet” and failing to look downfield when every QB that stands behind our line ends up have x-rays and MRIs.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 30, 2009 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

think they should

cut darling and sackintosh

add levi jones

and trade for marshall with our 2nd round and 4th round pick

by andrew33 on Aug 29, 2009 11:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Darling has had a good preseason

So don’t know why people stll bag on him.

Trade for Marshall is laughable. There’s no way I’d want that spoiled brat anywhere near my team if I were Pioli or Haley.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haley Won't Want Him

There’s a difference between how Boldin was (unhappy over a contract) and how Marshall is (unhappy over a contract AND a divisive presence in the locker room and off the field). Haley already had a problem child at WR with Terrell Owens and it set up his departure from Dallas. I doubt he’ll repeat it with Baby T.O.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theres no arguing the weight loss - but results on the field are all that matter

And my point is, players that are playing well so far this year are the same players that played well last year.

Bowe is having a great preseason. Well he was a great player last year too.

Albert, Flowers and Carr continue to be good players just as they were good players last year.

What I haven’t seen, that I would expect to see if a superior coach was brought in, is a player like Derrick Johnson who clearly has talent, but has never done anything with it. Its the same DJ as we’ve seen his entire career. He occassionally makes a sensational play followed by the rest of the game where the only time you see or hear anything from him is when he’s screwing up. The rest of the time he just disappears.

I’m not bagging on Haley, in fact he’s starting to grow on me. I’m just saying that the reason the team went 6-26 the last two years is primarily due to personnel and those problems don’t seem to be fixed just yet. Hopefully they will be over the next few years.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll See What Happens

I share all of your concerns about the players…in fact I doubt Johnson is ever going to be a top player and I’m not sure that Haley’s going to be able to salvage Dorsey for his scheme. Peterson did a terrible job of evaluating personnel and now the players are facing a new system and I’m not sure they’ll be able to adapt. So we’ll probably see Johnson walk after this season (fine by me) and for the young guys I guess we’ll see what they become. All I know is that I think Haley a) will at least not lose games because his players are gassed and b) won’t be making most of the blindingly stupid playcalls Herm was known for. And for now that’s enough for me to want to give him some time.

That won’t last very long if he doesn’t show improvement though…I’m giving him the same timeframe I gave Herm. Two years before I start really ripping into him (barring some incredibly ridiculous behavior on his part), and if he hasn’t progressed sufficiently by the end of year three I’ll be calling for his head same as I did with Herm.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pioli Will Get A Little More Time From Me

I believe all GMs should get at least five years on the job. If he’s not winning playoff games by the end of that five years, though, I’ll probably be on his case like I was with Peterson last year.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 29, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? 5 years for an NFL GM?

With the salary cap and the draft set up, a good NFL GM should be able to get a franchise headed in a good direction in two years.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 30, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Three years

That’s usually how long it takes for a rebuilding project to be properly evaluated. If you did it right, you should be in the playoffs (or very close) by then.

by ajanzen on Aug 30, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope You're Talking Practices..

because he damn sure hasn’t shown it in games. The play he got injured on, the ball hit him right in the damn hands. His only job is to catch anything that he can get his hands on, and if you can’t do that, well my friend, it is time to start thinking of a career change.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

screw Marshall

I’d rather have a credible OL and the guys we already have would be fine. I sure hope we can find some gems in the rough for OL with all the coming cuts.

Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!

by kabrink on Aug 30, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2-14

2-14 can’t be turned around in 1 season but 1-15 can?Come on.This team showed less than nothing tonite.3rd. game & it’s supposed to be a tune up,but the car stalled & died.Pioli is known as a great builder.Ha! He builds from the inside out.HA! What the he11 has he done with the o-line but buy 1 & get 1 free.Oh he picked up 55 year old M.Goff.This is pathetic & with ijuries it’s going to be worse.I wonder what Her ehh Haley’s excuses are going to be?Where’s those guys off the street that he can win with?

John Soellner

by chiefs63 on Aug 29, 2009 11:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

After the Cut

A lot of teams, including the Chiefs, will have to cut back to a 53-man roster. In those cuts, there will be some folks that are good enough to do great things in the NFL. However, the rules mandate that the roster is 53 by September 5th. That said, Pioli will make a move on a lot of those players. Hell, we’ve got scouts out all across the United States. They’re watching each and every player throughout these preseason games and they’re hoping, just like us, that the Chiefs can nab some players that will elevate this team to the next level.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow u seriously think a GM can completely over haul a team to his liking this fast? Wow.

by Chieffan_Toby on Aug 30, 2009 1:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

That's the thing, chiefs63.

Even if they’re doing everything right, it’ll take time to turn things around. So you can’t say that the 3rd preseason game is just a tuneup. Chiefs are STILL evaluating talent, BIG-time. There’s a LOT more uncertainty for this squad than most squads at this point.

What’s funny to me is how people are freakin’ out over Alleman and Ndukwe, when those guys have only been here for a week.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least they are backups...i guess

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just too negative

Everyone can have an opinion, but I just had to jump on here after reading your post.

J. Charles – 7 yards p. carry (minus out the 30 yard run and he still has around 4 ypc)
Johnson – 4.5 ypc

Chiefs – had over 80 yards in the first half. I saw our 1st team offense (including the O-line -the left side at least)

Minus the injury to Matt and the fumbling, I think this team is getting better each week. I am encouraged by the play of the D (minus DJ tonight and started playing backups in the 2nd).

Just because we were 2-14 last year does not mean we can’t go 10-6 or better this year. Will it happen, maybe-maybe not. But we are in preseason game # 3 with a new GM, coach, D coach, new D system, and 30 new players.

I wouldn’t piss away the season just yet!!

by kcchief02 on Aug 29, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Preach On Brutha chief02

I’ll get on your bus and ride it ‘til the wheels fall off. It’s fucking preseason, not the playoff push in December. A lot of scrubs were being rotated tonight so that Haley & co. could at least get a look. For piss sakes, there were some players out there tonight that I forgot was even on the team because they hadn’t played in the previous two games. Thigpen was being showcased, that much was clear. If he wasn’t, then Haley would have yanked his ass after the first 20 piece of shit passes. We still had The Guit and Brokie Croyle in waiting. Croyle didn’t even play. I’m a little worried about the o line, but all in all, thought we made some progress with the first unit. Again, this is a “process” people.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen

Same here. I’m impatient as the next guy… But thinking in preseason game #3 for a new GM and coach… Hell pretty much a new roster that everyting would be perfect is completely unrealistic.

by Chieffan_Toby on Aug 30, 2009 1:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Speakin' of scrubs,

Lokey did some good things.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rebuild is not a gimmick, it will take a couple of seasons.

This team will be rebuilt for the long haul, not a one season turnaround. People using the Fins as examples need to hold off and see how good they are this year and last year not being a one hit wonder.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Aug 30, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thigpen

the guys that bagged on him in the first haft are full of shit…he did great

by benton on Aug 29, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm a big Thiggy fan

But not in my wildest dreams could I describe his performance as “great.”

by Scaryclouds on Aug 29, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What game were you watching???

Dude is a freaking bafoon. Terrible, horrible, I can’t even find a word bad enough to describe how bad he played.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 29, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll go along with that.

Plus I like the word buffoon.

I sure wish we would have traded him before the damn game. It sucks, because unless we do something drastic with OL we need to carry 4 qbs.

Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!

by kabrink on Aug 30, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How About...

MACABRE – having death as a subject : comprising or including a personalized representation of death

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Rotoworld via The Sports Network

X-rays on Matt Cassel’s knee came back negative after he left the Chiefs’ preseason game Saturday night with an apparent injury.
Cassel made his way off the field without assistance, but was noticeably limping. His status for the preseason finale is uncertain, and we can probably expect a secretive approach from the Chiefs about Cassel’s Week 1 availability. Kansas City’s new GM, Scott Pioli, hails from the Bill Belichick tree.

by golfbard on Aug 29, 2009 11:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

DUDE

YOU BETTER MAKE A FANPOST ABOUT THAT!!!!! (sarcasm font)

Thanks for the news, golfbard :)

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you make a FanShot of this

they might get it on the Mainpage…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Aug 29, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you think

brandon flowers got hurt because of the hurdle he made to score that TD? i mena if it was his shoulder, it looked like he dove into the end zone akwardly…maybe he injured it there?

by CHIEFER on Aug 29, 2009 11:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

He was on the sidelines celebrating with the guys afterwards. Could be that the adrenaline was pumping so he didn’t notice it or he could have been an idiot and hurt it on the sidelines.

Hopefully if it was as you say it won’t be serious.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 29, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just want to see football and cheer on my Chiefs...

It’s too soon to be saying things and stuff. I do agree they need tons of work, but there are little strides of improvement. As bad as it was to see them the last two years win only 6 games, I’m just stoked to see them go out there this year to try to have a successful season and down the line, win a Superbowl.

What I’m trying to get to is that you can stay neutral or positive. No need to be all negative. It’s not like the team can get any worse. It’s unrealistic to be expecting so much from them after last year.

by worc on Aug 29, 2009 11:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s unrealistic to be expecting so much from them after last year.

I can’t expect them to be better than they were last year? Because right now they don’t.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh come on man

this was one flippen game. we constantly say that we expect to have some growing pains this year, but than turn around and complain about them. yah there were some set backs in this game but expect more of them this season. this is only the 3rd game under a new coach with a new system. did you expect them to have the system down pat after a camp and two games. did you expect all the bad habbits to be broken in that same time frame. while i’ll agree we still have a lot of work to do before becoming a power house, give it some time before you say that none of the holes are fixed. take the linebackers for an example. yah they didn’t play the way we wanted them too, but the previous two games they have been soild. call me crazy but that seems better than last year. pass rush is another example. in 3 games we have 4 sacks. 4. that’s almost half of last years total. again call me crazy but it seems to me that there is improvment. not perfect by any means but getting batter. i will agree that our OL is still pathetic though. they haven’t shown one once of getting better so i will agree that it’s still a massive hole but i think we are starting to fill some of the others.

by Leaf on Aug 30, 2009 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The whole team just looked off tonight.

Does anyone else think that the keeping up with the camp schedule during the preseason is starting to take a toll on the players? I mean I liked making them work hard but your body does need a rest.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 29, 2009 11:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I love the way you say the whole team looked off tonight after you have been riding Thigpens jock strap for the last week.

Even though I agree that the team didn’t look good, nobody played as bad as Thigpen did. He missed open guys all over the field. Missed the TE in the flat, missed Darling on the deep post, took off running on 3rd and 13 when all he had to do was throw the damn ball on time. I could go on and on.

Way to make excuses though.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 30, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, get your head out of Croyle

I have never said he should be starting, I have said I would want him or anyone over Brokie. That is the difference between you and I, all I have seen you write is negative, I can say I know thigpen did bad, you act like he is the only one that has ever had a bad games, every QB that has ever played has had bad games.
Cut Thigpen, trade him it doesn’t matter just as long as they don’t put Croyle as the #2
Croyle has never shown he can play in the NFL, he is good in camp, and has looked good in preseason but when it comes to scoring he sputters out, in every game.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 30, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Preseason....

How many starters was KC missing in this game? KC DOES NOT have the talent to have a good game missing that many starters. Of course the team on the field won’t look good, that’s a second string team at a lot of positions.

And give Seattle credit, they are a potential playoff team with a good offense. Chill.

And Succop is fine. He’s a rookie who missed his first kick. ALL kickers miss kicks, this will not be the last one he misses (I’m throwing out the 53 yarder). Chill.

by T-Rich on Aug 29, 2009 11:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And give Seattle credit, they are a potential playoff team with a good offense

Seahawks went 4-12 last year. Just sayin…

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...

they now have a healthy Hasselbeck, healthy Burleson, added Edge and Housh, and Felix looked prime tonight. They also added the stud LB we should have grabbed in Curry…

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please read:

Yeah, I said potential. They have a healthy Hasselbeck, a much improved run game, a much improved receiving corp, and their defense has signed good players. They are a potential playoff team (and not just because they play in the only division worse than the AFC West). Just sayin….

by T-Rich on Aug 30, 2009 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats very true

I remember gotskowski struggled in preseason missing a few short kicks before having a great rookie year

by SDChief on Aug 30, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

all the kickers were missing tonight

Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!

by kabrink on Aug 30, 2009 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw good and bad

I agree with many of your points. I’m still not going to call out Haley and Pioli on not building up the O line more yet. I feel better about the defense…still not giving up a lot of points and are leaving us in position to win the games. We haven’t been out of it at all so far even though we haven’t won yet. For the O line, I think they really needed to see just what we had in pads before making decision, and we will probably pick up a couple more in the next week as the cuts come down. I don’t think we’ve seen our O line for this year yet. Thigpen did not impress me at all tonight. I’ll be surprised if he makes the final 53. Charles had a good game…he helped himself tonight.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 30, 2009 12:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't impressed by the defense at all

The Seahawks missed 3 field goals. They should have had 23 points instead of 14.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

But then we missed two as well which would have made it 23-20 and we still would have been in position to win at the end. That was my main point…was that we were in position, and soon the Offense will figure out something (I hope) and start taking advantage of the position and win some games. No, the Defense is not making me feel all warm and fuzzy….but I’m not going to panic just yet.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 30, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care about our missed field goals

Your statment was that the defense didn’t give up many points. The truth was that if their kicker hadn’t misse 3 field goals, it should have been much worse than it looked like. Our defense got ran over.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on...

DJ, you are making statements that are just so far off base. I know it is your opinion, but the defense did not get RUN OVER! Just look at the stats from the 1st, and 2nd (Mainly our first team D). I don’t call that getting run over. I saw time and again the D playing well. Maybe your statement would be more true if you said our 2nd and 3rd team D players got ran over.

by kcchief02 on Aug 30, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Seahawks

                            1st Half 2nd Half

  1. of 1st downs: 12 11
    yds rushing: 58 46
    yds passing: 146 148

Our 1st team defense actually did worse than the 2nd.

Our defense gave up a combined 406 yds of total offense.

My friend, if you don’t call that getting run over, i don’t know what is.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my take

This is a young team, and yeah its not great yet but

Flowers Carr Leggett are all stars in their own right for 2nd year players, they make our corners some of the leagues best

Jackson looked VERY VERY GOOD…he got tired, as he should, but he flashed, many times, and actually ended 3 seattle drives if people look back over it with his hand in the face, a tip, and a sack.

Magee running up the field was impressive, the first team defense was without DJ that REALLY hurt.

Succop was due for a bad miss, also remember, they changed snappers again, that gets confusing and messes things up….the 53 yarder was a nice kick however.

There are times where they look like a real team, the injuries dont help

lets hope cassel is a minor injury, and the right side of the line is figured out at some point.

by SDChief on Aug 30, 2009 12:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

thats also true

and a point I forgot to make…the D has kept the score very reasonable for all the turnovers and terrible play offensively…and poor punt return coverage on a 5.25 hangtime 55 yard punt…

They will get there, lovie smith said 2 years for a system that is new to be installed and really have the players Gel

by SDChief on Aug 30, 2009 12:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

thigster

i still kinda like him but idk..we all loved him last year when he was in the pistol offense…and that seems to be the only thing he can do… i dont wanna watch him throw 3 ints just to throw one or two tds after that in a normal offense….he just cant see every wide out and go through his progressions in a normal offense..i love how hard he can throw that ball but for being able to throw that hard he just underthrows deep routes for some reason and just cant throw that far

thats why brodie is better just because he is better in a normal offense and you can bet todd haley isnt going to change the whole offense for thigpen if he somehow has to start

by zbartmess on Aug 30, 2009 12:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

 I feel Brodie and even Matt G are better fits for this offense. Thigpen looked awful under center, hes just able to plant his feet and do one read in the pistol

by SDChief on Aug 30, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Guitterrez is a lock for the opening day roster

Not that he’s been spectacular, but he’s a Pioli guy. Unless Cassel ends up missing extended time to the point they feel they have to bring in a veteran QB to take his place a while, I think Gut makes the team.

Croyle seems to be locked in as the #2 guy, but considering his succeptibility to injury, thats pretty scary in its own right. I think he has a lot of talent, just have no faith in his ability to stay on the field.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Concur

Thigpen has more troubles than just accuracy. If you all watched the same game I did, he does not scan the field. From the moment he breaks the huddle, his mind is programmed for which receiver he is going to throw to. That is, IMO, one of his biggest downfalls. The defense can easily sniff that out like a rabid hound dog hunting rabbit…

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he also threw

some dead ducks when he was on the run and he threw one straight into the ground merely 4 yards in front of him – not on purpose. he totally sucks.

Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!

by kabrink on Aug 30, 2009 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ndukwe and alleman

Actually held up the line well. You’re way too harsh on things. Thiggy had time to throw he just can’t. He’s not a dropback passer. He’s a “My primary receiver isnt there, so I’m going to run” quarterback. He doesn’t go through progressions. They should have put brodie in.

by TonylovesKC on Aug 30, 2009 12:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This comment made me think of Jeff George.

Nothing to do with scrambling, just that George could not make reads either, and how many teams took a chance on him only to see him repeatedly fail.

The Hall of Fame is full of guys with average physical traits who could really read defenses and check down from one read to the next. I can’t think of a single QB in the HOF who is in there on scrambling ability alone.

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Attention...

Please, everyone collectively step away from the ledge.
It’s one preseason game, and a bad night. Calm down, take some deep breaths. It’s a work in progress.

by tnyehawker on Aug 30, 2009 12:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

i dont really like Matt Gutierrez for some reason i dont know why….but i really wanted to see brodie during this game…i wish our qbs were like this 1. Matt Cassel 2. Damon Huard 3. Brodie Croyle…. yeah ive always loved huard, he is the best backup qb you could possibly have ( psst..just dont tell him he’s the starter, if he happens to start)….

but i was thinking during this game that todd haley and scott pioli actually tried to do something for the o-line when herm just seemed to ignore it

by zbartmess on Aug 30, 2009 12:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OMG....Huard would get KILLED.

He already used eight of his nine lives playing behind our O-line

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its not an overreaction

Id say its just too bad to lose a few guys to injury….there were a lot of positives, rewatching the game, I saw Jackson/Magee play well(mostly), flowers obviously had his pick, Belcher looked good, Lawrence,Charles looked good….there are positives

but to have cassel hurt, then to have thigpen squander his opportunity to solidify a nice draft pick…kind of too bad,….

Succop was going to miss, with his leg, its bound to happen, he has better accuracy than janikowski, I still say a lot has to do with the snapper/holder chemistry and timing with succop

by SDChief on Aug 30, 2009 12:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the defense so far.

The D looks much improved, even though they’re playing in a new system with loads of new players.

The special teams don’t seem much better, which is a disappointment after the emphasis placed on them.

I don’t get the plan for the offense, though. We dumped our best player in exchange for no help this season, and didn’t do much to solve our biggest weakness, the OL. We also brought in a few old WRs. Doesn’t seem to add up— why make the big move for Cassel if you aren’t going to be able to protect him? We seem to be building up the defense from the line first, so why not the offense the same way?

Anyway, it’s only preseason, and lots will change. Hopefully the defense will stay improved though. We seem much faster, stronger and more aggressive on defense.

by Offense of the 70s on Aug 30, 2009 12:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Let me take a stab at this;
why make the big move for Cassel if you aren’t going to be able to protect him?

We didn’t have to sign Cassel to a long term big-money deal, but we did. I think you build a dynasty in this way;

Franchise QB
Dependable defense
Solid Offensive line
Rotate in and out new and electric skill position players year after year

What runningback or wide receiver can be pointed to as a “reason” for the Patriots championship success? How about the Steelers? What do those two teams have in common?

Franchise QB’s
Dependable defenses (Steelers a little better here)
Solid O lines (Pats a little better here)

To answer the question;
 Cassel is (or at least supposed to be) one of those pieces. The second is coming to shape. I just don’t think the third is going to happen this year.

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The third better

otherwise we lose your number one.

I’m sorry O-line and D-line are interchangeable at #1 and #2, if you’re getting pushed around there you can’t win.

You can win with a journeyman QB that doesn’t mess up, See Trent Dilfer in Baltimore, Neil O’Donnell in Pittsburg, Stan Humphries in San Diego.

Corners and linebackers look better with a great D-line, See Kawika Mitchell in KC then again with the Giants.

Your qb, rb’s and te’s will look better with a good o-line, (90’s chiefs) and they’ll give recievers more time to get open.

kc’s o line and d line were great in the 90’s, we had one qb for 2 yrs that could have been called great montana but the qb’s looked good, cept bono and grbac, the o line was great during vermiels time here, Green’s first year, Collins and Quinn looked good during the preseason.

If we don’t find some line help it’s going to be fun this year.

by mcclanahanman on Aug 30, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly agree...

If there was a choice I’d build;
Defense
O-line
Franchise QB

The cards just don’t always fall that way.

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely yes

I know it’s a complete cliche, but defense wins championships. It’s a proven fact that people try and argue, but they just can’t.

by T-Rich on Aug 30, 2009 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

d can't win championships

if the offense can’t win any games to get into the postseason

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My first post-My take

I thought the 2 new guys on the right side looked decent, not great, but it didnt seem they weren’t being pushed around as much as McSack and Goff, esp on pass plays.

The linebackers I agree were awful except for Vrabel

As they were saying through the NFLN broadcast, the DBs did a horrible job jamming the receivers off the line, they were fully separated in their routes because our DBs weren’t touching them.

Pollard was the worst looking person on the team in my opinion tonight. He had 3 missed tackles that I counted. This guy cannot cover for sh**, and apparently he is afraid of hitting as well. I’ve never been a fan of his, but so far this year he has shown absolutely nothing IMO. I would replace him with Brown or McGraw by game 1.

This is going to be a rough year. I live in Atl so to watch the Chiefs Ive ordered Sunday ticket but am thinking about canceling it. There is not alot to look forward to on this team, our D will probably be in the top 18-25 range which will be better but not really good, and it looks like our offense will not score 2 TDs a game, so is it really worth paying all that money for what could be a 4-12/5-11 team?

by dbowechiefs09 on Aug 30, 2009 12:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome!

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree...

still am a little taken aback by the cushion our DBs were giving their WRs. Geez, any quick down and out or curl and they were guaranteed at least 5 yards per pass. Shit, you could have drove an armored truck through the big ass lanes their receivers had from the line of scrimmage…

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know, right?

10, 15 yard cushions each time? what happened to man coverage for cryin out loud? I can hear Len Dawson now: “that reciever was WIDE OPEN, there was nobody within 20 feet of him:”

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome
As they were saying through the NFLN broadcast, the DBs did a horrible job jamming the receivers off the line, they were fully separated in their routes because our DBs weren’t touching them.

Don’t blame that on the DBs. They were playing zone all night. You don’t jam a guy when you’re in zone. The LBs are supposed to get back and cover their areas and they didn’t do it all night.

http://ajax-dj.mybrute.com

by ChiefDJ on Aug 30, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to AP!

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

Future Mrs. DTR

"Death by Snoo Snoo!"

by DThomasReigns on Aug 30, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was there

up in the 300s and saw everything. Huge problems EVERYWHERE. O-line, horrendous QB play, Toomer’s daydreaming during the 2 minute drill, no qb pressure defensively, CRAPPY coverage by the LBs, Succop’s hiccup from 28yards or some shit, injuries, etc….to quote Johnny Cash:“worried man, worried man, I’m a very worried man” Gonna be another long season

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 1:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's just preseason

is always the same excuse people make to justify a bad showing. The fact of the matter is that this team is just not very good. You can come out with the same sort of argument that vanilla playcalling and not seeing starters all the way through the game doesn’t show a teams real worth, but preseason is still an indicator of how talented a team is. Our first team offense couldn’t do anything, once again. Last year people dragged out the excuse of vanilla playcalling to justify a pitiful offensive showing, and guess what happened in the regular season, they stunk. There are lots of warning signs here people, it’s gonna be a long year.

While I feel as if the team may be headed in the right direction, I am truly confused by a majority of this offseason’s moves. Looking at the draft, there are potentially five players that don’t even make the team. After the trade with the Dolphins, and taking into account a couple of our veteran signings there is a good chance that Brown, Lawrence, Williams, O’Connell, and very well Succop don’t even make it to the final 53. That is just not a way to build a roster. Winners build through the draft is the old mantra, but this team can’t seem to find this sort of balance, especially with Pioli cutting nearly everyone from last year’s class.

Just a few frustrations with the way things are going this offseason. Maybe things will be righted soon, and we can snag a couple of keepers off waivers or other teams’ scraps, but it’s looking like another four win season which shouldn’t fly around here anymore.

by Chief Seattle on Aug 30, 2009 1:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ugghhh....

is this team cursed or what? We’re like the Cubs of the NFL, only we can’t even compete

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude....

’08 Lions = 0-16
Raiders earlier today = forty-something to 7

Not that sucking less than these guys is anything to be proud of :-P

Dauntlessly Matriculating

by SoCalChief on Aug 30, 2009 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heard you on that:)

but even the lowly Faders have been to and won a SB or 2 in the last 40 years. The fact is, we’re really down right now. Nobody that’s any good wants to play for us unless they’re forced to(Vrabel, Larry) or they get paid INSANE amounts of money(Cassel, Jackson) Hopefully Pioli’s new personnel guys can get some talent in here, because right now….well….

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i

have no idea why trading for marshall would be a bad idea

if we can get him for a 2nd and 4th that would be a steal

pick up a lineman first round and maybe second and

we have a solid line with waters albert and the drafted lineman,

bowe and marshall who will relieve pressure from cassel

marshalls just unhappy with his contract and who wouldnt

while white gets a great contract extension, marshalls due to be paid 2 million

by andrew33 on Aug 30, 2009 2:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and

trading away your franchise qb for orton wouldnt help

not to mention the broncos stance in his court hearings

why do you think cutler demanded a trade?

mcdaniels cant keep a team thats why

it would be a great move for us to pick him up for some extra picks we have

by andrew33 on Aug 30, 2009 2:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

won't make a shit bit of difference

if the only qb’s we have worth a squirt of piss keep getting injured because our o-lne cant block their way out of a wet paper sack

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Marshall is complete trouble. KC is better off using the 2nd and fourth to get young players in the draft, or trade for Boldin. If the Chiefs are going to try and deal for a WR, it has to be Boldin ALL THE WAY (not saying KC should trade their picks, but if they did, that would be the option over Marshall).

by T-Rich on Aug 30, 2009 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree...

I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have Boldin. That said, the picture has been painted and is clear for all to see. They need to use those picks on the offensive line in next year’s draft or spend them acquiring some talent before the start of the season. My thoughts are that we try to scrape up who we can from the waiver fodder and retain our precious draft picks to spend on the holes that are determined to be our biggest needs at the end of the season.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 30, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

F Brandon Marshall

dude is nothing but trouble. If he’s pulling this shit in Denver, what do you think he’s going to do here when Bowe gets the big new contract before he does?

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But

Pioli would give marshall the deal

and we have two 2nd round picks and two fourth round picks

as i said why not pick up an O lineman with first round pick and maybe with a second

round pick too

by andrew33 on Aug 30, 2009 2:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

devil's advocate

if Pioli’s new personnel guys are any good at evaluating talent, that MIGHT be a plausible scenario….we need to win some effing games, so young talent will be as Haley says: “chompin at the bit” to play here without long holdouts, I’d still rather have Boldin, just because he & Haley know each other(maybe a little TOO well)

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yawn...

This post is a little frantic for my liking. The only thing to get excited about for negative reasons is the offensive line. For the rest it was a decent preseason game where our #1 Qb got injured early and the defensive coordinator didnt show too much(because its the preseason) after his early game plan worked extremely well.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 30, 2009 2:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Barry Richardson at center maybe????

I really think we should move him to center keep the one of the guys from mia at RG and put Colin Brown at RT then I think well be fine!! ok now for our recievers… I would cut copper,darling, and johnson and sign Matt Jones and trade for Marshall! SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 2:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Recievers

Bowe Engram Toomer Jones And Marshall with lawerence at KR!!

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 2:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know it's "just the preseason"

but after 2 years of absolute ineptitude, the lack of real depth on the roster concerns me a bit. The defensive starters gave up 2 long drives for TDs not too far removed from each other. This is gong to takea while to really rebuild this team. No magic WR is going to fix it.

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ask the Raiders

how Randy Moss fixed their problems

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 2:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the d-fense

okay ur rite but just like I said earlier did u see that tackle that pollard missed? I think he should habe been put on the third string okay he was our leading tackler last year but i still missed alot of tackles

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

WE are not that physical at the line on D why do we give the opp team that much room at the line to make a move on us plus 9x out of 10 our corners are toooo short to get with em WE need to stay on the line “Bump and Run” baby

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it's never good

when your leading tackler is a DB. This speaks to the larger problem of talent and chemistry. Talent is essential, but chemistry even more so. THis team has SOME talent, but has had little to no time to really develop chemistry and trust for each other. This organization is in a state of flux and confusion, and a COMPLETELY new defensive system is in place. It’s going to take these guys a while to not only get accustomed to the system, but to each other.

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How long does it take these are grown a## men come now they play these teams every couple years I mean thats why they watch film and all that stuff I think coach needs to get tougher with them

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Have you seen coach Haley mic'd up?

or any of his press conferences? Haley isn’t giving these guys any breaks. He’s doing the best with what he’s got IMO, and that isn’t a whole hell of a lot

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I do agree

with the need for bump & run and man coverage

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Flowers

I honestly think flowers is the best on the team then varbal Ive seen coach on mic’d up and his press con. but answer this do you think pollard needs to be replace with brown I dont think so but he cannot tackler (pollard) I still think they’ll finish 1st cause I think even though our D isnt all the way yet but have you seen all the other west teams? If we dont bump and run we will get killed those are always going to be 1st downs man what are they thinking?? and when we get to the Qb we need to hit him hard to send a mess to everybody were not playing even if we knock him down dont offer to pick him up or nothing!

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

everybody looks at us soft!!Agree??

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

o yeah

it’s not just the DBs, the LBs are missing coverage assignments left & right. those recievers who caught those passes were more wide open than a whore’s legs at the mustang ranch

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brownie has lost a step or 2

and he’s a stop-gap at best. if this continues, look for Pollard to be let go or traded and for Mogran to step up. He made almost every tackle in the 4th Q tonight

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the lb’s dont drop back in coverage enough and the safetys are droppping too far back the recievers are right behind the lbs they need to watch all that film Seattle is not even that good and we made them look like playoff contenders if we play like that we will be in trouble all year

by chiefsfan84 on Aug 30, 2009 3:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

all that is magnified

because with very few exceptions, the QBs had all day to wait for the recievers to find holes in the zone. The pressure has got to improve or it WILL be another agonizing ear for all of us.

by reedeasy on Aug 30, 2009 3:36 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My take.

It’s preseason kids.
-Detriot Lions-
Last year preason: 4-0
Last year reg. season: You all know the story.

We do have problems. A lot of it can fall back on the O-Line. That is our main problem. Second is our defense although looked good on occasion needs to work out the kinks. Our back up QB’s need work. Thigpen did look bad tonight but Gut wasn’t an approvement. They both were horrible. Preseason is an evaluation of players(special teams and potential back ups) and live scrimmage for the starters nothing more. We will get rid of the scrubs and get replacements for the starting scrubs. We will work out the small kinks and do just fine. Might not be a playoff season but we will do better than the last two years by far. Stop complaining about preseason.

by Chiefsfan85 on Aug 30, 2009 5:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's amazing

How things can change and still not change.

In my little two cent opinion.. Cassel is over-rated, always has been. Beyond that though, I have said for years and it continues to show, the Offensive line is not working. At this point, even though I think Brian Waters deserves better, it’s time to start the O line from scratch.

new QB, new line. Instead of trying to plug a leaky wall, just build a new wall. so far, every time they try to patch a leak, two new leaks start. just a poorly built wall to begin with.

offensively, everyone and everything looks a little better with a solid O Line to give the offensive some time, some space and some confidence.

Just thinkin out loud.

Big Bear

by bigbearomaha on Aug 30, 2009 5:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post and Rec'd

We are paying for the inattention to the O-line this offseason by Pioli and Haley. I have no idea what film they watched from last year’s games, but they either failed to see the obvious or didn’t care to make a serious attempt to fix it.

If the line continues playing as poorly as they currently are when the season begins, we need to prepare for the Arrowspread, or to see more QBs leaving the field feet first.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 30, 2009 7:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Free agent pool

I honestly think that they need to dip into the Free Agent Pool for the line. I bet they can atleast get some UPGRADES in the pool of older and more experienced guys than the ones we have now!!!

by javim100 on Aug 30, 2009 8:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Talent

A lack of talent on the Chiefs team has been an issue for the last couple years and if they have more talent Haley hasn’t got it to shine as yet. I expect them to get off to a slow start and then get worse.
Maybe they need to replace 45 players as the cuts start. The pass rush is terrible as it seems almost as bad as the OL’s pass protection.

by Aejfan on Aug 30, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Problem?

Fix that O-line!!!! Other problems are minor compared.

Bring in Levi and Runyon…anything…just fix that line. I don’t care how old the guys are. GET BODIES!

by RIChief on Aug 30, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

O-line please!

I want K.C. Wolfs' job!

by Jonezin4KC on Aug 30, 2009 9:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Chiefs just arent very good"

Uh…DUH!

I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave

by ArrowDread on Aug 30, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Progress?

I think the guys are making progress even though last night seemed like a significant step backward. I just haven’t seen the sort of progress that is going to give us a chance to to win more than a handful of games considering the schedule we have this year. I was thinking 6-10, but after last night, 4-12 seems more appropriate.

I really hope I am wrong, and no matter what I will be rooting them on…but it is frustrating.

by Ripley on Aug 30, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well done, DJ

I completely agree.

Rec’d

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

Future Mrs. DTR

"Death by Snoo Snoo!"

by DThomasReigns on Aug 30, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Also, Haley said, in so many words, that a lot of players are near the end of their rope.

It’s been a GRUELING training camp. More so than ‘most any other in the league. It’s going to take a lot of finesse by Haley to have them fresh and ready for Baltimore. Meanwhile, there are still decisions to be made on O-Line. Really would’ve preferred not to wait this long, but hell, even after they’re SET at O-Line, it’ll be a few games before they starting coming into their own as a unit.

And I’ll go one further on this. LOTS of emphasis put on the same starting 5 guys staying together, and the Chiefs have gone counter to this, moving people around, trying different combinations. It seems dumb, on first pass, but this sort of mixing and matching might pay dividends down the stretch, with people better prepared to step in and play in another position.

ALSO, and I’m one of few to think this way, for YEARS it’s seemed to me that the KC O-Line ALSO got tired in the 4th quarter. With opposing teams rotating their d-line all day and the Chiefs unwilling or unable to make ANY substitutions on O-Line, it seemed to get tougher and tougher for them to make headway late in games (and I’m not just talking about poor conditioning and last season – this goes back a long time). It was almost like I didn’t WANT to see KC win time-of-possession, because I always expected the O-Line to wear down by the 4th quarter and be more tired than the d-lines they faced.

A little chaos right now might be good. CAN Richardson come in and give any one of 2 or 3 guys a breather? If he can, then owning T.O.P. AND having fresh guys that just keep comin’ for 60 minutes could be a devastating weapon. So, to me, seeing people being moved around in PRESEASON, while it may be tough on the QB and RB, might see MORE O-Linemen getting quality minutes on the field and get more out of the 53, overall.

Not many teams have much of any rotation on O-Line. They’re either very good or very bad, depending on who’s sitting.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Remember, it's a 16-game season, and we don't have to steal MANY of the first

few games to be WELL ahead of the "off a 2-14 season’ wave.

So I’m looking for the early wins that look like we just STOLE, with a “fluke” pick-6 and a lucky fumble, plus maybe one or two unlikely long FGs. Hmmm. That sounds a lot like what NE did in their 1st SB-winning season. Even in their PERFECT season, they won quite a few of those in (to the naked eye) unlikely ways.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 30, 2009 5:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There you go thinking "outside the NFL coaching box" again

Rotating offensive lineman is blasphemy!

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 30, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's an interesting twist on the preseason

Could we have a GM possibly weighing in on the game-planning? Hmmm… I see what you’re driving at. Bad for the short-term cohesion of the unit but better for the long-haul. It’s a bit like developing a unit-wide mindset for depth. I wonder if any of our NE compatriots would be so kind as to enlighten us as to what the Pats line rotations look like. Or is this a philosophy that came from Haley? And then again, is it simply a sign that our coach is a noob?

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Aug 30, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Kansas City Chiefs blog!
Start posting about the Chiefs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Plainview_small
Talk Steelers with BTSC
Chiefs_pic_small
A little love for the Kool Aid drinkers (-!

Recent FanPosts

Small
True test today
Small
A gift for my fellow APers
Small
FA Possibilities
Leaf2_small
Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Pt. 11 (PSSST......IT MIGHT NOT BE SFW EDITION)
Images2_small
Danario Alexander, 5th round Pick?
Pollard_small
Chiefs Scout Oregon at Arizona
Images_small
5 ways the Chiefs get a win this Sunday
Small
Time To Go To The War Room
Turtle_article_small
AP Power Rankings Week 11; You Could Make It At Receiver For The Chiefs Edition
Us_on_thanksgiving_08_small
Beyond this season...

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Bleeding Green Nation
1:00 Games Open Thread
Pride Of Detroit
Lions-Browns Inactives
Bolts From The Blue
Game Thread: Early Games

Managers

Arrowhead_pride_small Chris Thorman

Tg_small Joel Thorman

Editors

N505381175_257425_5488_small Matt Conner

Contributors

Ajax_small ChiefDJ

Small Jon Yoon