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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

Lamar, Carl and Marty vs. Clark, Scott and Todd

From the FanPosts  -Joel Marty1_medium_medium

Take a look at how closely this year matches resembles the Chiefs two decades back ...

After a playoff appearance in 1986 (which the Chiefs lost in the Wild Card game) followed by two disappointing seasons, in 1989, Lamar Hunt hired Carl Peterson as Chiefs' General Manager (and President and CEO).  Hunt fired Frank Gansz and hired Marty Schottenheimer.

Marty was known as a hard-nosed, take-no-crap kind of coach with a demanding training camp regimen and a reputation for finding ways to win (200-126-1 overall, but 5-13 in the postseason).

After a playoff appearance in 2006 (which the Chiefs lost in the Wild Card game) followed by two disappointing seasons, in 2009, Clark Hunt hired Scott Pioli as Chiefs' "President of Football Operations" (ie: General Manager).  Pioli fired Herm Edwards and hired Todd Haley.

Todd is also known as a take-no-crap kind of coach with a demanding training camp regimen.  Evaluation of his reputation and, as a head coach, finding ways to win will have to wait for now.

In the 1988 and 1989 NFL Drafts, the Chiefs had used their first round picks on a Defensive End (Neil Smith) and a Linebacker (Derrick Thomas).  One became a Hall of Fame-level pass rusher, thanks to help from the other collapsing the pocket.

In the 2008 and 2009 NFL Drafts, the Chiefs have again used their first round picks on the Defensive Side of the ball (Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson, both Ends); with one expected to be a fierce pass rusher, with help from the other collapsing the pocket.

Early in his tenure, Carl was known for bringing in quality veteran players to help strengthen the team -- Barry Word, Joe Montana, Marcus Allen -- often players that other teams had given up on as too old (though, arguably, this would eventually become his downfall).  Early in his tenure, Scott has shown that he's willing to do the same thing -- bringing in Mike Vrabel, Zach Thomas, Amani Toomer, Bobby Engram -- again, players that other teams had given up on as too old.

00dcb0b75da74a62b1ff59243f36641f_medium_medium_mediumWhat Lamar, Clark and Marty built was a team that was a perennial play-off contender.  The first season together, they went from last in the AFC West to 2nd in the AFC West.  They missed the playoffs that season, but they made the playoffs in 7 of the next 9 years, with a combined record of 101-48-1 over those 10 seasons.

What Clark, Scott and Todd are trying to do is build a team that won't just be a one-shot playoff contender, but a perennial playoff contender.  This first season together, there are very real expectations that they'll go from last in the AFC West last season to 2nd in the AFC West (ahead of Oakland and Denver, behind only San Diego).

It's beginning to look as though history does, indeed, repeat itself.  And, for Chiefs fans, that's looking like a very, very good thing.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Wow..there is an unbelievable amount of similarities there….great find and great post..Hopefully Haley can turn out as good as Marty but hopefully with some more playoff wins…maybe we can draft another HOF linebacker next year

by dwill_pittst on Aug 25, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions  

i kind of thought the same thing but who knows

by dwill_pittst on Aug 25, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Curry may be a great LB...

but he’s definitely not the next DT. He is said to be a below average pass rusher.

by chicks_love_chiefs on Aug 25, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice!

Good post. What a great job as a fan to dig that stuff up and analyze it.

by krayfish on Aug 25, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't pack your bags, yet.

You have kept yourself alive for one more day!

Rec’d.

by TheQ on Aug 25, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions  

The only diff. Marty was a successful HC before he got here. Hope that doesn’t matter.

                                                                                                                                       GO CHIEFS

by old chiefs fan on Aug 25, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Another simularity

Much like the 2009 draft, the Chiefs completely ignored the O-Line in the 1988 and 1989 drafts!

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 25, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Speaking of the 1989 draft

1st pick – Troy Aikman
2nd pick – Tony Mandarich – Bust but biggest O-Line prospect ever
3rd pick – Barry Sanders
4th pick – Derrick Thomas
5th pick – Deion Sanders

Wow – not bad!

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 25, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Another difference but a good one is

We didn’t have a starting QB under 30 during Peterson’s time except for last year. Pioli’s first big move was to get his QB.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 25, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

The biggest difference. Good note!

Predictions as of 06.24.2009.

Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.

by 58 was my friend on Aug 25, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...good post.

Hopefully we find another stud like DT in a couple years and we will have a badass O-line again like we had.
I miss those days when people feared the chiefs=[

by Wrestler189s on Aug 25, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Beautiful...

Hopefully there is even more success, however…

by woodman212 on Aug 25, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Old enough to have seen it all through "seasoned" tickets

I have been in season tickets since 1979. What positive parallels I see almost all relate to winning versus coddling players. Not to digress to far, as this is my first post, but if one will recall the scene from “Hard Knocks” where our head coach spends hours coloring in a “welcome” poster to training camp that is met by the players with a “What a nerd” attitude, I think that sums up the previous administration. Form over substance, Time, by the head coach, that could have been spent evaluating film or something else really important was spent preparing a poster that ended up on in the gutter, tromped on by the arriving players. What an incredible prophecy that one shot of the HBO film crew became.

So, remember, Peterson is also responsible for that hire. Can you explain the difference with Marty by suggesting something occurred like a stroke or other medical condition that might have caused brain damage in the intervening years?. I am sorry but I think, NOT! Before we begin drawing parallels to these two administrations in their respective infancies, the only similarities I can see are some in the coaches. Mr. Pioli is on a completely different cerebral plane and he seems to insist that his players are too. That is a HUGE difference.

Sorry to be so verbose (that means "long winded" for all you intellectually challenged, donkey and raiders fans—Chiefs sympathize as those conditions tend to be redundant)

by judgerms on Aug 25, 2009 6:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Re-analyzing Carl Peterson.

I think Carl knew what he was doing. I think he had every bit the football acumen that Scott Pioli does.

Carl’s approach to the General Manager position worked. It was the exact right approach to take with the team when he came in. There is no denying the impressive success that he and Marty had that first decade he was here.

The problem came when his approach to his job didn’t really change all that much, but the game and the League did. The game and the League evolved a lot in the 20 years Carl was here. Carl didn’t.

He continued to fill gaps with aging veterans, which would have been fine had he continued to draft well. After missing big on a few keys draft prospects, he got a step behind and never got caught back up. Instead of filling in with young players that we could develop, he continued to just try to fill gaps.

He never let go of the mentality that we were “just one or two players away.”

Herm’s hire, like it or not, was Carl bringing in a coach he was familiar with (they’d worked together previously, with Herm in KC as the D-backs coach during the Schottenheimer era), who had a coaching pedigree that Carl had helped foster and had previous success with (Herm is in Marty Schottenheimer’s and Tony Dungy’s coaching tree), and who’d demonstrated some level of success in his current position (3 playoff appearances in 5 years with the Jets, with a 2-3 record in the playoffs).

It’s easy to see, if based on nothing other than who he’s hired so far, where Scott could easily fall into that same trap when making hires, if he’s not careful.

Scott has two things that Carl didn’t: the benefit of hindsight, and an approach that fits with where the league is going. Carl had the latter, too, early on. But, I imagine if Scott is still here 20 years down the road, still trying to do what he’s doing now with less and less success each year, fans will start to see him in much the same way you see Carl.

But, regardless, I think it’s safe for you to let go of the Carl Peterson negativity now. He’s gone. It’s okay to admit that he did have some success while he was here. It’s okay to admit that there was a reason Lamar kept him around so long. It’s okay. It’s okay.

by JacinB on Aug 26, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually I agree completely, but lets be realistic

I have let go of the negativity, and am not preoccupied with the previous administration. Like all true fans of my age I continue to appreciate the transition from Stedman/Schaaf and the incredible regular season winning percentage through the 90s. No one should ignore how the Chiefs became the hottest ticket in town. Much of the atmospheric mystic is owed to Carl. I accept and appreciate that Carl may have been the victim of his own success.

 My main point is that despite apparent coincidences this is not a parallel universe compared to 1988. Yes the game has changed, but even more so has the attitude of the players coming out of college and players under contract evolved. I do not expect success to come quickly even presuming Pioli can avoid the pitfalls of which you speak. So many of our later round draft picks in the last 6 years have not panned out as they tend to do in a successful franchise so the cupboard is very bare. Establishing a roster of hard working intelligent players as these guys profess to be focused on will take time. Unlike the post suggests, we should not be hopeful or even concerned with finishing 2nd in our division this year. I for one, was patient back in the late 80s and think we should all be prepared to give this some time.

by judgerms on Aug 26, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions  

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