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Reviewing the Chiefs Quarterback Performance in Loss to Vikings

Yesterday, I talked about which quarterback I thought would improve, which one wouldn't and which one would stay the same.

Here are the stats from last week.  Here are the stats from yesterday.

Following the Kansas City Chiefs 17-13 loss to the Minnesota Vikings, it looks like I got it right

Most likely to improve: Matt Cassel

Last week, 2/5 for 40 yards and no scores was a tame, even weak performance.  With extended playing time, Cassel did two things I liked:

1. Scrambled Thigpen-style

2. Found Bowe (when it counted)

The one touchdown pass from Cassel to Bowe is what we all wanted to see.  Right?  Definitely the quarterback that improved the most and proved to be the best quarterback on the field last night.

Least likely to improve: Brodie Croyle

Croyle falls into this category almost by default since Thigpen's not playing but he did set the bar pretty high.  The Tweet heard 'round the world is probably a faint Twit (? I don't know either) at this point.

I really don't think Croyle was ever pushing Cassel for the job (or else Croyle would be taking more time with the first team).  He wants to solidify himself as the No. 2 QB. 

5/10 for 41 yards and no touchdowns is similar to Cassel's play last week - tame and/or weak.

Most likely to stay the same: Tyler Thigpen

I guess this is true.  Thigpen didn't play last night.  While we're not completely sure what happened, an injury, if there even is one, doesn't appear to be serious.

Problem for Thigpen is that Matt Gutierrez isn't going down quietly.  He went 8/13 for 68 yards.  You can argue Thigpen's value went down and Gutierrez's went up after last night. 

***

The only depth chart change I would watch, at this point, is Gutierrez and Thigpen.

Pioli and Co. brought Gutierrez in for a reason.  They obviously thought he has some potential, now the question becomes does that outweigh Thigpen's spot on the team.

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Hate to say it

But basing the play of the qb’s on just last nights game, I would keep Guitterez over Thigpen. Cassel went on a Thigpen like scramble but actually made a good decision and threw the ball. Thigpen wouldnt throw the ball when he would start to scramble, and that just wont fly over the course of a game.
Croyle to me has solidified his role as the primary backup qb, and Guitterez really impressed me. But it will be nice to see how the qbs do in the next preseason game to really give a full analysis

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Aug 22, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions  

I seem to remember Cassel running a few times last night, getting a first down one time.

I also seem to remember Thigpen scrambling moving to the right and hitting the TE in the end zone for a TD, something Croyle has had almost 3 quarters of playing time has yet to do.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thigpen doesn't fit here

He can’t run a pro style offense.

by golfbard on Aug 22, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions  

We aren't going to be running a prue pro style offense.

and if Thigpen can’t run the offense we are running how does he have a TD and Croyle and Guttierrez don’t?

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

more importantly

Thigpen has an interception while croyle and guttierrez don’t

by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 22, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was a 4th and long play at the end of the game

how many times have we seen even a great QB’s throw an INT at the end of a game trying to make something happen. And Croyle has a fumble,
I was impressed with Guttierrez untill he had 4 tries to get in the end zone and couldn’t.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was impressed with Thigpen

until he led the team to a 1-11? record as a starter including every game going into the second half with the lead and scoring zero points in the second half because he is so easy to game plan against and adjust to.

by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 22, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

or maybe it was the 31st ranked defense that lost games

or a coach the couldn’t manage a clock, The defense couldn’t stop anyone. The Chiefs were scoring avg of 20 points a game with him, and with that you should win games but if the defense lets teams score at will kind of hard to win.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's an offense

That requires the QB to drop back and throw of which he is not good at doing. He’s good at improvising but as often as he wows you with his legs, he also kills you with bonehead plays. His accuracy is awful.

by golfbard on Aug 22, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

if that is the case why was there so many plays out of the shotgun then.

Also it was proved by Gretz that Thigpen had better stats than Cassel playing under center.
I will give you the accuracy point but what would you rather have a Qb that can score TD’s how ever it looks or Croyle that looks good throwing but can’t score the TD.
Thigpen played in 15 games with 22 TD’s
Croyle played in 13 games 6 TD’s
And that is with Croyle having two full off seasons with the first String and Thigpen coming off the bench as the third stringer with very few reps and none with the first string until a real game.
Every stat show Thigpen is better than Croyle.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying one is better than the other

I do however think Croyle is a better fit in this offense. You can’t compare last year;s offense with this years. Yes I do know there was a lot of shotgun which I failed to mention but the formations and plays are much better suited to Croyle’s arm strength and accuracy versus Thigpen’s lack of acurracy.

by golfbard on Aug 22, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

all you can say is (i think Croyle is better)

I have given many stats that show different. show me where Croyle is better, like i showed you and I might change my mind. But just saying he has arm strength does no good. Another stat for you Croyle’s longest play is for 35 yards Thigpens is 75.
And how about what the Haley said about the Texans game, not exact but something like (we weren’t even in the game until the 4th quarter) and who was the QB that played in the 4th quarter?

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

stats

aren’t always what they seem

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

we have so many shotgun plays

because our O Line sucks big donkey balls at pass pro

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Play Calling

is one reason why. Gailey changes us his thinking and play schematics when Thiggy enters the field. He knows Thig is a loose cannon and calls plays to suit his strengths. Not taking anything away from T-squared, but that’s just the nature of the beast.

And as far as QB controversy, I’ve already said it once and I’ll say it again. Thigpen is probably gone to make room for The Guit. I said in another post that the Don doesn’t cut made men, so Matt G not only will make the team, but proved last night he’s going to be pushing for that number 2 spot.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 22, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every offense is made to fit the starting Qb's strength

NE,Arizona and KC all ran a form of the spread offense last year, so what makes you think we won’t be in it sometimes this year. Haley is playing very basic in pre season, he doesn’t want to give other teams tape to look at.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

did you even see thiggy's TD?

it was an over the shoulder prayer so he didn’t get blasted by the 3 defenders running at him. Thats a broken play…not running the offense

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that pass was a prayer than I'll take more of that

because it it him right between the numbers. and why did he have 3 defenders coming at him because he pulled them from their assignment and that left the TE wide open.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

anything good that he does

ALWAYS gets offset by his stupid mistakes. When he plays a full game he always evens it out

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

same goes for Croyle

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

deal thiggy

but maybe get a reciever in return…someone needing a fresh start

by SDChief on Aug 22, 2009 11:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I think that's an idea

But at the same time, shouldn’t the Chiefs be giving Thigpen more playing time to increase his value? For QBs, the price can be pretty, even for mediocre ones. Sage Rosenfels went for a 4th rounder…

by Joel Thorman on Aug 22, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sage Rosenfels is much better than Thigpen.

We would probably end up with a 6th rounder after this season. I’d trade him for an upgrade at right tackle.

by ravenhawk on Aug 22, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

idk about that

We need more help on the OL than our receivers…

Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"

by Jux on Aug 23, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

We need to pull a "Shanahan"

Trade Johnson, Waters, Thigpen and/or Croyle and a second round pick for someone’s entire offensive line. There’s gotta be a GM out there dumb enough to do it. ;)

by jbj8609 on Aug 22, 2009 11:52 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

crap...

if only Herm was coaching somewhere this year.

Prediction: Tamba gets 10 sacks this year.

by ChiefDog on Aug 22, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

The nickname someone came up with last night for Gutierrez

was “G Man”, because none of us could type it fast enough or correctly. Anyway, after having been able to get a better look at G Man, I was fairly impressed with him. He showed some good signs at QB, seemed poised, was throwing some accurate passes and was reading the D pretty well. He’s a solid # 3 right now over Thigpen.

Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...

Get your Arrowhead Pride Wolf Pack T-shirt now!

by oldchiefsfan on Aug 22, 2009 11:59 AM CDT reply actions  

If they have no plan to use Thigpen as "wildcat" or "special" play option on a weekly basis I do not think he makes the team.

I think they will keep him for this reason as a 3rd QB and spot player, but if they don’t have any interest in using him that way then I think he gets released.

by saskwatch on Aug 22, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Whoa whoa whoa

I can see keeping Croyle over Thigpen, but over Gutierrez?!?!?

Why? If Gutierrez even sees 3 seconds of playing time this season we are in trouble. Essentially Croyle, Cassel and Gutierrez are the same QB, why not keep Thigpen as our 3rd stringer and use him in certain packages? Even if its only using the wildcat every other game, it is more valuable than having Gutierrez sitting on the bench. And all I hear is “Thigpen can’t run the pro-style offence”. What makes everyone think we won’t run the arrowspread at times this year? Pioli and Haley both come from programs that utilized a spread style offence, and lest we forget how shitty our o-line is? Cassel is not going to start 16 games this year from under center with this useless line.

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 22, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions  

You have a valid point.

I think I would actually trade croyle

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Aug 22, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 22, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that we should keep Thigpen as 3rd and a special package guy, but...

I am not convinced we will. If the staff has no plan to utilize him in unique situations, don’t underestimate the fact that Guitierrez is Pioli’s guy. Personell guys love players they puck and quite often have little love for the players left over form previous regimes. I sure hope that is not the case though.

As well if we get a decent offer for Croyle you move him (although I do not think there is much value there).

by saskwatch on Aug 22, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

start cassel

have gut as the backup, since he is similar to Croyle minus the career of inuries, and keep thigpen for prank play purposes. Croyle probably has better trade value anyway

by SillyHatDay on Aug 22, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Please explain to me.

How is it that Croyle has a higher trade value than thigpen?

Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"

by Jux on Aug 23, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because NFL execs are enamored with potential.

In a workout, Croyle would look much better than Thigpen.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 23, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

but in real games he don't.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 23, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you there, especially over 4 weeks.

Just saying why I think Croyle would have more trade value.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 24, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glad Croyle came backwards....

So Babb and friends can zip it on the Croyle vs Cassel thing and it doesnt need to be discussed here anymore.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 22, 2009 12:18 PM CDT reply actions  

G-man played against significantly lesser competition.

Savage looked good on a few plays, too. A LOT more running room than other Chiefs enjoyed. Having said THAT, even discounting for lesser competition, Battle is significantly quicker off the blocks than LJ.

LJ and Cassel faced the real deal, starting with the Williamses in the middle, which is RIGHT where LJ ran. Not much glory in those carries, but I got the sense, same as versus Houston, that 4 quarters of takin’ it to ’em with LJ would soften ’em up, especially with Cassel extending plays and moving the chains, and the D giving the ball right back.

Chiefs owned the 1st quarter 1s versus 1s. 11:47 seconds time of possession, IIRC. This was largely due to Favre needing to throw the ball by design, and his relative immobility. Sadly, I get the impression that handing the rock to Peterson 3 times in a row would’ve produced the first downs they didn’t get.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 22, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Williams in the middle

The second Williams didn’t play neither did allen

by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 22, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

GUTTIERREZ SHOULD STAY

GUTTIERREZ SHOULD STAY, WITH A LINE LIKE OURS WE WILL GO
THROUGH ALL OF OUR QUARTERBACKS SOON , ESPECIALLY WITH THE LACK
OF PROTECTION FOR THEM. WE SHOULD KEEP ALL 4 QB’S.
CASSELL WAS DEFINITELY MORE POISED, CROYLE AND GUTIERREZ
ARE ABOUT EQUAL , WITH GUTIERREZ LOOKING LIKE HE COULD TAKE A HIT.
THATS A BIG QB. CHEIFS RB SHOULD IMPROVISE MORE WHEN THE HOLE IS
NOT THERE.

by GOBAMA on Aug 22, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Wasn't Croyle a 'Bama guy?

Thought you would be “yelling” for him to start!

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 22, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Caps lock

you need to turn it off

he was injured. injured bad.

by troy145 on Aug 22, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I Believe

that Croyle proved he could take a hit last night. He took one helluva shot to the chin and you could tell he was shaken up the way he got up. That said, he remained poised and continued to play a decent game.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 22, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Croyle

took a nice illegal helmet shot to the chin and got back up and handled his business. If you watched closely he also had blood pouring from a finger on his throwing hand at one point and he didn’t even notice it….he may get hurt easily but its not a lack of toughness.

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

now if he can just score TD's in a real game

I might start believing in him too. 6 TD’s in 8 starts is terrible. and now he has played almost 3 quarters in preseason and still no TD.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

true

We only have 1 real TD against a 1st string D. Hopefully it doesn’t turn to a FG show again like last few years

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't the 1st string D.

I’m sure I heard the announcers mention “defensive substitutions” before our TD drive began.

Defenders making tackles on that drive:
Herron – 2nd team LB
Sanford – 2nd team SS
Guion – 2nd team UT
Abdullah – 2nd team FS
Mitchell – 2nd team LE
Paymah – 3rd team LCB

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 22, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok

so we have only FG then against 1’s…..ouch

it is getting better though

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

so much for your stab at Thigpen

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 22, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

wasn't a stab at thiggy

was a stab at our offense in general. Go suck some more ’Bones"

by KCCheeze on Aug 22, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way, I see you are new

You are going to get hammered by the self appointed “arrowhead pride police” for using all Caps

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 22, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm giving advice and can't even figure out how to use the "reply" button so take whay I say with a grain of salt

And so, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Aug 22, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha

How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.

I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!

by bouzi on Aug 22, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Chiefs are going to need Tyler becuase they cant run a pro style offense anyway. Cassell got sacked 3 times and Minnesota was playing without 2 pro bowl defensive lineman. If they run this offense out there against real defenses in real games Cassell is as good as dead.

by J ray on Aug 23, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions  

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