Five Chiefs Who Helped Themselves in Saturday's Loss to the Texans
by Joel Thorman on Aug 17, 2009 9:00 AM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Offseason
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PrintWe've had a few variations of this post. ChiefDJ graded the Chiefs position groups and I already know he'll disagree with one of my honorable mentions. Direckshun handed out a Studs, Duds and Scrubs list.
Check those out then take a look at my take on the Kansas City Chiefs first preseason game against the Houston Texans.
Derrick Johnson
"This is going to be his best scheme. It's definitely weakside linebacker-friendly. It can exploit the talent that he has.
"Everybody knows how talented and fast he is. If he gets this down where he's not thinking, just rolling around and just having fun and he knows what to do, he'll be a great player in this scheme." -Zach Thomas on Derrick Johnson
Thomas is right. He just looks faster. On a few plays he came in hot pursuit and really wrapped up well. This defense fits him much better.
He led the team with six tackles and Zach Thomas' words that this will be DJ's best defense is beginning to come to fruition.
Ryan Succop 
Wouldn't it just make Haley's day if Succop pans out and the Chiefs have a solid kicker and one of the best punters in the NFL?
(Photos courtesy of John Sleezer and David Eulitt of the Kansas City Star)
47 yards in the rain on Saturday night is a good beginning for Succop. He still has 16 "real" games to go but that kick was a nice start. Leg strength is so important because it shortens the field even more for the offense to create scoring opportunities.
And for an offense with an average starting position inside their own 25, those few extra yards in range will be important.
Quinten Lawrence
Lawrence didn't define himself in the return game but he did do one thing as a receiver that Todd Haley likes - block. Josh Looney breaks down the block I'm talking about:
WR Quinten Lawrence logged one of the biggest hits of the day when he laid a crushing block on a Texans defensive back attempting to tackle a scrambling QB Tyler Thigpen. Lawrence broke off his route when he saw Thigpen scramble and laid an ear-hole block downfield that sprung Thigpen for another seven yards near the goal line. These are the type of plays that Haley wants to see his receivers make.
Chiefs Planet has a nice video of the block.
After the game, Lawrence told me the block was just part of the job. He didn't stand out in other phases of the game but no one else did either. Doing the little things will help make an impression.
Seriously. He had an excellent game considering the expectations weren't high. He hit his receivers most of the time (nearly 70% completion) and he really whipped it in there. He's got a heck of an arm.
It's just a matter of keeping it on the field for the entire season. After tonight, I don't feel too bad about Croyle having to spell the starting QB for a game or two. Judging by past history, it would be difficult to count on him for more than just a couple of spot starts.
One local sports reporter recently said there's a chance Thigpen might not make the team. His performance Saturday night was good but it was a familiar result. He was the spark in the offense and led the only scoring drive. But...
He threw the interception that sealed the game.
His legs are an asset, which is why I think he'll make the team and his performance in the Texans game showed that.
Thigpen's efforts to force a regular role for himself in the offense will be the most interesting story line to develop in the preseason and early part of the regular season.
Honorable Mention
He took the bulk of the rushing duties in the second half. Nearly 40 yards and about five yards per carry is a good day's work in limited action.
It's tough to forget about the two fumbles, one of which was lost. Savage seemed to play a pretty good game overall but if there's one thing that will get you on Haley's bad side, it's turnovers.
Kent Babb had a nice piece on Mays earlier in the week. On Saturday he was the second leading tackler.
He played well in limited action but, most importantly, the Chiefs need linebackers and Mays' stepping up gives him a very good chance to not only make the team, but contribute.
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Maurice Leggett
I know he was having a pretty good camp but Leggett showed Haley he can show up for the game as well. Leggett being in the right place at the right time seems to happen enought that I am starting to believe it isn’t just luck. I think this kid may be a really big surprise for us this year.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
And he's a legit athlete.
And that’s something you can’t coach. Nice to see the player/athlete coming together. Mo’ Leggs! Can we thank Herm for this one?
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Agreed
The player that helped themselves the most has to go to mays… most of us considered him a special teams player and now i’m fully comfortable with rotating mays and thomas.
by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 17, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Now he just needs to sharpen up on the play-fake, and drop into zone.
Then again, I’m a guy who’d just as soon see the HB get nailed at the line, with or without the ball. Best way to take him outta the pattern.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Gonna go with Succup
In a league where a Kicker can be replaced just as easily with a guy off the street, he came in the game with a soaked field, a wet ball, and a his first kick in the NFL being a 47 yard strike straight through the uprights.
Its only one kick in our first preseason game, but that’s got to show some some mental fortitude. Especially for a guy picked dead last. It should do wonders for his confidence, which he apparently already has plenty of.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
Great Points +1
I pick Succup for the same reasons. He showed us something not only with the FG, which was tough under those condition, but Kick-Offs also. Not bad for a Mr. Irrelevant!
You are what your record says you are!
Succoup is a great kicker.
“But I thought we were talkin’ about FOOTBALL PLAYERS,” said Dukes.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Battle, Savage, and hate to say it Croyle.
Battle showed he is a man, he can deliver the hit. Savage, if they can get the ball security thing worked out, he runs hard is not afraid of getting hit. Croyle looked good, composed in the pocket. Hey I just read in the fanshots, Webb was released, Lelie was signed, what took so long?!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Ooh one more
Andy Studebaker, seems to have a motor, the next JA?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
LOL!!!
Don is the Setup Man, Haley is the Enforcer, Cassel is the Finsher... See you at the AFC Championship Game
Pass Defense?
He covered passes as well as JA also
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
by Frahnkensteen on Aug 17, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Yea he completely blew that one TE coverage.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Aug 17, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
How can you leave Bowe off this list
I watched him on every play and he seemed to stay focused and blocked downfield. How long do you think he’ll stay on 3rd team.
Battle looked good too.
Actually
I originally had Bowe then took him off. We talked about him earlier – Yes, he helped himself but that’s pretty much what he was expected to do as the true #1.
by Joel Thorman on Aug 17, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
AP has a spot in the press box?
I am a little behind here, seriously?!!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Wow how cool!
You are not getting big headed now are ya?:) Congrats!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
In my opinion,
it is expected of Bowe, a first round pick you expect him to catch everything that comes his way, just my thoughts.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
You don't expect that of Bowe. You expect him to drop a few
I look for a spectactular catch followed by a bonehead play. That’s not what he did on game day
True.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
So Haley is doing the
right thing with him, holding him to a higher standard?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Hell yes
But I like Haley’s school of thought. There’s no one way to do it, but this is how you drive a player in Haley’s methodology. If you’re going to play don’t be scared to double down.
But the question is
is this hurting the team in the long run? Sure, its a great concept to get Bowe to play how Haley wants him to play, but Cassel and Haley BOTH said the offense takes chemistry and Cassel hasnt had enough time with his receivers yet to get that timing down.
So whats going to happen when Bowe steps up to 1st string and Cassel’s timing with Bowe is off? Its only going to take longer to get them in sync with each other.
Haley needs to swallow his pride and let Bowe play. Bowe spent the last 2 years proving himself to be a legit #1, and Haley has him on the bench. Its embarassing, demeaning, and IMO, its hurting the team. I understand that he helped bring out the best in Larry Fitz, but he didnt bench Larry Fitz in the process.
Not pride
Demanding the same from Bowe as everyone else. When he delivers he will be number one. They still get plenty of drills and reps in practice where the ball is going from Cassel to Bowe. To quote Gretz from this morning:
With the ‘09 Chiefs, Bowe is the most physically gifted receiver on the roster. That doesn’t make him the best at the position, but it should and could, if he’ll become a true pro and learn how to handle himself. Yes, Matt Cassel needs Dwayne Bowe in the lineup. But not the Dwayne Bowe that drops too many passes, runs too many bad routes and doesn’t always get to where he’s supposed to be in the play.
The Chiefs have already proven then can go 6-26 with that Dwayne Bowe. When you say benching him, that to me is saying you won’t play at all. He is just saying you won’t start the game. He will play and play a lot. Didn’t Marty make Derrick Thomas sit out a quarter for missing meetings? You have to be what the coaches want you to be.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I disagree
DBowe is the most physically gifted receiver, but that doesnt make him the best at his position, yes, but can you name a receiver on the roster that IS better that DBowe? Nobody can seriously tell me that Copper and Darling are better receivers than DBowe. Engram has clearly had a rough camp and Toomer is probably the only WR whos been consistant in camp. Okay, Bowe dropped 13 passes, but he also caught 86 passes for over 1000 yards with a below average QB and a shitty offensive line that couldnt protect him.
My point is, Dbowe is the most physically gifted receiver AND the best receiver on this team. He’s missing valuable time with 1st team offense in camp that could be used to get the timing down between him and Cassel.
Yeah, Bowe catches passes from Cassel in DRILLS, but that doesnt mean anything for timing in a live situation such as 11 on 11 drills or 7 on 7.
I trust Haley, but I’m extremely skeptical so far. Its unorthodox to take your 2nd best receiver from a season ago, and put him with the 2nd and 3rd string players, especially after the leading receiver from a year ago is no longer apart of the team.
the whole point
Is no yo-yo players. Be the same player every day even if you aren’t great. That is what they are apparently getting from the other guys and not Bowe. If Bowe gives consistent effort, plays every play including blocking on running plays until the whistle blows, runs good crisp routes and catches the ball, he will become numero uno again. And not before.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I would guarantee
that Bowe is the starter, reguardless. If I’m wrong, then I’ll own up to it when he’s not the starter. But Haley and Pioli are focused on WINNING, and they will play the best players. If Bowe is the best player, he will play. Nobody on the roster is a better receiver than Bowe. Haley is trying to push Bowe and I dont think this is the right way to do it. I’m not the WR expert so I could be wrong, but thats my opinion. Haley is taking away valuable time away from Cassel and Bowe and that COULD….not that it will…but it COULD cost us during the regular season.
Did you watch him block?
There was one busted run play where Bowe had his guy 5 yards down the field and was driving him to the point where he didn’t know the play was going nowhere till the whistle blew. Nice
Yes speaking of blocks,
I think it was Quentin Lawrence that laid a guy out on a running play blocking downfield. Now about our o-line….
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Yeah it was Lawrence
Click that link to Chiefs Planet under the write up on Lawrence. Pretty good.
by Joel Thorman on Aug 17, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I saw that, too.
That’s a heady play by a young WR, seeing his QB is scrambling.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Unfortunately
I think Bowe’s accomplishments on the field are going to be downplayed by everyone because he was facing second and third stringers which are not a challenge for him to separate from. He did have a good game and did make some good catches.
by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 17, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Not at all.
What we were looking for had little to do with who was covering him. It was about the all-around game and consistency, and the dude showed up big.
The only thing I’m discounting is the long pass down the right sideline. Better DBs would’ve contested that pass more.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I disagree.
Bowe had 13 drops last year. Its not like he dropped a ball every game, so no, I dont expect him to “drop a few”.
He was running against 2nd string defense, with a guy he worked with all last offseason. Sure its been a year since the Croyle/Bowe shindig but then again, I’m sure hes been taking alot of reps with Brodie.
He had a great game, didnt drop any in the rain. Good job. But theres only so much you can take from that when hes playing against 2nd team D.
It is expected of Bowe to make all the catches. Hes got to focus on the ball instead of what hes going to do after the catch, which he did a good job of doing.
Tamba Hali
Hali looked like he catching on at Linebacker, I think the building blocks are in and a little more team chemistry. The Chiefs are going to win a few
..
Great motor, great wheels.
Now the driver just needs to drive a little more under control, and we really have somethin’. A little more under control, to keep contain and prevent the cutback. As a d-lineman, the idea is to flow with and the play. As a LB, he needs to trail a bit behind, to keep from bein’ beaten on the cutback, and he hasn’t quite figured out how much room to give himself in order to be able to change direction in time, and force the RB back inside toward defensive help.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Hali
I agree. Nobody gave him any chance of being a suitable OLB. He went from fans calling him a first round bust at DE to being considered a possible solid OLB, all in ONE year.
Hali helped himself out a hell of alot. Dude bought his own game tape machine to review film and work on improving.
by ChiefsFan79 on Aug 17, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
agree
I voted for Lawrence, but Hali help himself out just as much if not more. I’m not saying these guys were the best players out there, but they definitely helped themselves out the most since they had two of the most insecure spots on the team going into the game.
Disagree on Savage and Thigpen
I don’t think Thigpen needs to prove anything. He started what, 14 games last season? They’ve got plenty of tape on him. he is what he is and Saturday didn’t show us anything different. Cassell and Croyle have more to prove. If a decision is going to be made about Thigpen either keeping or releasing him, they should already know enough to make that call.
What really stuck out to me about Savage was one particular run and I don’t know if anyone else caught this but he got through the line into the second level and tacklers were swarming him, if he cut it to the right he had an open running lane for possibly big yards but instead he momentarily danced around and ended up lowering his shoulder and running straight into his would-be tacklers. not good, particularly for someone we want returning kickoffs.
I thought Savage hurt his chances a little, too.
Ball on the ground. Didn’t look real natural in the pattern without the ball, or with the ball in the air. With him and with Lawrence, I thought they could’ve helped Thigpen by being more on the same page, and anticipating where the pass ought to go and where (imo) Thigpen put it, a couple of times.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Andy Studebaker and Cory Mays
Made some good plays for the D. I was impressed with their play.
KC Chiefs Football Blog
Go Chiefs!
by bigknoxy on Aug 17, 2009 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes. Studebaker even moreso.
Wonder how he got nicked up. He was squatted down holding his midsection before he left the game. Luckily nothing to do with his wheels.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe Barry Richardson?
According to Looney:
10:33 AM – Team periods have begun and Richardson continues to work with the first-team offense at right tackle. To my knowledge, this is his first practice working with this group during camp.I don’t know if it was his playing well or Dmac playing bad, but at least we are looking at a change here. I saw Dmac walking back to the line of scrimmage once and he looked stiff and gimpy. Other than just being big, I’m beginning to wonder if he has much left.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
That is Crazy
Richardson was getting beaten like a rented mule, and cause Thigpen to be on the move constantly.
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
by Frahnkensteen on Aug 17, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Is thigpen ever not on the move constantly?
Don’t know that I’ve ever seen him patiently sit and let the pocket develop and step into it and throw a good pass that he steps into… its always side arm balls that somehow flail to the receiver.
by Chiefs Fan Jon on Aug 17, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
They HAVE to do something about the RT position before we play the Ravens, period.
Gotta seriously start looking in FA for a new RT. Levi Jones and Runyan are still out there. That would do a lot to solidify the line. I don’t know if the guys are waiting for roster cuts or what but, something has got to give.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 17, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Take the Thigpen Blinders Off
He didn’t look at all like a QB that fits in a Todd Haley system. I will give you that having to be protected by Barry Richardson is criminal, but when he threw his passes were highly inaccurate, and came out so slow that I thought they found some tape of me and my 50 year old arm playing catch. He is a spread QB and that is the only reason he came into this season as a starting option. If he is your starter, you run the spread period.
Yes, he got us into the endzone – against the dregs of the Texans defense. The other two QBs also moved the ball. If you put any of these three in the offense that takes the field against the Ravens next month Thigpen would easily be least effective. Don’t get me wrong I like the kid. He has a ton of moxie and moxie wins games – when all other factors are equal. Talent counts, and that is what he doesn’t have.
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Most of what I saw on Thigpen’s inaccuracy was throwing off of the wrong foot, trying to throw across his body, mostly bad positioning of his body from throwing on the move. I think he needs a chance to settle down and get comfortable in the pocket, like a lot of scrambling quarterbacks needed to do when they came into the league. If he was given a chance to develop a level of comfort in the pocket, I think his consistancy level would raise as well.
by mcclanahanman on Aug 17, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Lets hope that in the next game
They decide to let Thigpen play behind the real offensive line. Then, we can see what he can do when he is not running for his life.
As an added benefit, we could also see what happens to Croyle when he has the 3rd string line in front of him. My expectation is that he will wind up hurt, just like he did every other time the Chiefs counted on him.
I don’t understand why the New England Mafia™ is giving Croyle another opportunity. Durability is mandatory at the QB position. Surely they realize that Croyle’s injury last year was what led to regime change here in KC. What are these guys thinking?
by LennytheCool on Aug 17, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude, you are dead wrong about this.
Thigpen is not a good QB. Period. Why would you want to send a quality QB like Croyle and throw him to the wolves behind what is obviously a terrible line when you know the chance is very high that he could get hurt. WHEN he becomes the #2 guy, we may need a good pocket passer to come in behind Cassel and win some games for us. Croyle (injury concerns aside) may be one of the best #2s in the league and the way he looked the other night, he may be better than several of the starters out there (Kyle Orton). When he gets a chance to play in the regular season, he won’t be playing behind a scrub #3 line, he will be behind our starters. Thiggy will NOT win the #2 job over Croyle. There is no way.
The best thing to do is keep Croyle behind the #2 line WITH the #2 receivers and see how he does w/o Dwayne Bowe. Then we can get a fair evaluation of how good he is but, I have to say that his throws the other night were VERY, VERY impressive. Thigpen has not thrown a ball like that in his life.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 17, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
puhleeeaaase
Why would you want to send a quality QB like Croyle and throw him to the wolves behind what is obviously a terrible line when you know the chance is very high that he could get hurt.
Because if Croyle can’t hold up behind a terrible line, you can’t depend on him. Thigpen survived last year behind a bad line. It was the same bad line behind which Croyle lasted about a game. You can’t parenthetically say that injury concerns are aside. Injury concerns are exactly why it is reckless to keep Croyle on the roster. He WILL get hurt. It is what he has proven he does best.
You can’t say Thigpen is less capable than Croyle unless Thigpen gets the chances that Croyle gets. That kid was running for his life out there and still managed to score the only TD of the night. Croyle had way better lineman and a motivated Dwayne to throw to. What’s wrong with a fair competition?
by LennytheCool on Aug 17, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
and the only way to prove
that thiggy is a bad QB is to put him behind a good line. it’s only fair to grade them with the same circumstances. you can’t say thiggy is a worse QB than croyle when he threw poor passes in a situation that croyle would have a hard time walking away from it alive. i’m not saying that thiggy is the better QB but stop dogging on the guy for making some mistakes in a piss poor situation. you say WHEN croyle is made #2 we may need him to win us some games. tell me, how many games has he won? zero. He’s started in 8 games and has won none of them. thiggy started 10 games on an arguably worse team and still pulled out a win. Plus there were several games he kept us in it and our D lost the game for us. i don’t know man. croyle might be able to throw a pretty pass but statistically it looks like thiggy is the better winner. What’s more important, a pretty pass or a win?
bottom line
neither Croyle nor Thigpen knows how to be a winning NFL QB.
Cassel does, that’s why he’s the starter.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Pioli/Haley are trying out Croyle and Thigpen for 1 roster spot, giving the #3 QB job to Matt G. or bring in a developmental guy.
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
agreed on thiggy/richardson
To be honest, richardson is right behind webb on my cut list, and since webb got cut….you do the math.
he was treating DL like he was running with the bulls.
Thigpen did what hes good at, making something out of nothing, then the defense adjusts and he gets shut down.
Casey Printers impressed as well….not me, but he impressed some with the same sort of play
I'm surprised that I scrolled through these comments....
and unless I’m blind I saw nothing about DJ. Croyle was good but I think Bowe helped his status more then he himself did. Mays was around the ball and did a good job too. Succop I think will be a sigh of relief for the people in charge. But it was DJs name that stood out for me.
For a guy who has been a bit of a whipping boy for not living up to potential and a guy everyone said “3-4 isnt the right defense for him”, he was all over the field Saturday and I would even go so far as to say dominant. He was scored as having 6 tackles in a little over a quarter but on my count he was in on at least 9 of them. Here’s a guy that I think will have a monster year and be our breakout player of the year.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Lawrence's block was crucial
Thank You Carl Peterson for drafting Dustin Colquitt
by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 17, 2009 2:08 PM CDT reply actions
Croyle and Cassell werent accurate either...
Croyle had several passes that werte behing bowe and bowe caught them. Croyle also made dumb mistakes like the intentinal grounding. I cant beleive people down talk thigpen for his throwing ability. All last year he improved. If the New Regime was to release him, it would be the biggest epic fail of any KC GM and Coach. He is the only QB that got our offense moving. Yeah you can say that it was against 3 and 4th stringers but his WR and OL were the same. Thigpen has never had more then 2 seconds to complete the ball. Also he is in his 2rd year. To release him over croyle would be an epic fail. Croyle isnt even a talented QB without the injury. Do you guys not remenber when he did play, He didnt get the ball moving then like Thigpen did. Even in that Bears game.
actually,
cassel was accurate… should have completed 4 of 5, had the receivers not dropped passes that were well thrown. He is CLEARLY the #1 QB, anyone who’s doubting that is kidding themselves.
Croyle was accurate, and showed a big arm…. but, I’m not his biggest fan… I think he’s proven to be hurt or ineffective in every chance he’s had. I would have cut him by now.
Thigpen may have been hurting, which made his passes float, but he also showed poor mechanics and decision making. Just like last year, he led a TD drive, gave the team a chance to win, then blew it in the final seconds with an INT.
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
Many Mistakes
Thought Cassels muff is correctable. Savage’s fumbles may be telling…scary. We get a first down and gain momentum on biggest gain by a RB on the night if he holds on. Also, I’m not sure why Quentin Lawrence made the list. While he blocked well, I’m disappointed with his 4-5 dropped passes. Unfortunately there isn’t a position in football dubbed “downfield blocking wideout.” Maybe QL could try out for RT???
The future is ours KC Chiefs fans!!!!!
N. Gift
by giftedchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2009 5:38 PM CDT reply actions
I didn't see that many drops from QL
Not saying he had a huge night receiving, but I didn’t see 4-5 drops…
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
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