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Top Three Studs, Duds, & Scrubs after the Chiefs First Preseason Game

288-chiefstexans0944_sp_8-15-09_jfs

Photo via David Eulitt of the Kansas City Star

From the FanPosts   -Joel

Yet another failed preseason game down for the Kansas City Chiefs, but unlike the previous two seasons, not all hope is lost. This was as energizing a preseason loss as we've experienced in a few years, and it's mainly because the team that Pioli/Haley is trying to build is coming on strong.  The formations all looked very distrinct on offense, the defense's three- and sometimes four-man push up front was occasionally successful, and the calls were all of a different shade than we're used to.

All in all, after watching this game, I think one post that addresses just one aspect of anything that happened in this game (which the Star will undoubtedly do) is unfair, because sooooo much happened in this game. I'm going to try to single out particular performers that deserve some recognition for their work and their foibles, and even then I can't fit everything in that I'd like to say about a whirlwind of a game.

Mental mistakes lost this game, as did the bizarre playcalling by Chan Gailey at crucial moments throughout the game.  The defense bent, but rarely broke -- which is a vast improvement over a defense that broke constantly last year. The first offense faltered with mental mistakes, the second offense brought life back to the game but faltered with mental mistakes, and Thigpen was Thigpen -- at times dazzling, at times hauntingly dumb, but always never quite looking like a traditional quarterback. He brought us to within a chance, and lost it, much like he did throughout his 2008 campaign.

With that in mind, the lists follow after the jump.

Star-divide

THE STUDS:

The second string offensive line. As soon as Cassell went to the bench, bringing with him Waters, Albert, Goff, and Niswanger (and as the Texans retired their starting DL), this offense completely changed.  The playcalls were roughly the same, but all of a sudden our quarterback, the Man of Glass who can't last a game, was picking apart the Houston secondary.  And all of a sudden, the tiniest player on our team played once again like he had the biggest heart, as Dantrell Savage busted through holes time and time again.  Croyle and Savage deserve credit for their work, but the second string OL allowed these moments to happen, flawlessly executing for most of their time on the field.

QB Brodie Croyle.  For the very first time, the absolute very first time since Croyle was drafted, he looked like The Guy that Herm Edwards had his eyes on in the third round.  First round talent with insane injury concerns, we were told.  Well tonight he proved the praise while he disproved the criticism.  He took decents shots to the body, but he was still able to find Bowe as he consistently tore up the second-string secondary. There were passes made tonight that were downright thread-the-needle placements, and his arm has scarcely looked better.  Credit to Chan Gailey for finally giving him an actual playbook, too, rather than the handcuffs offense during the Herm Edwards era.

WR Dwayne Bowe. Yes, his work tonight was entirely done on second-string corners, but that's not why he's here.  I list him here because he responded to the embarrassing plight of Todd Haley's demotion  Not like a showboater, although there was a welcome glimpse, but like a man.  He took the demotion and instead of pouting about it, he challenged himself with it.  This is the kind of mental toughness that this team needs, and wide receiver Dwayne Bowe exemplified it.  He's ready for the next level.

THE DUDS:

RT Barry Richardson.  There were absolutely critical moments of this game where Richardson, at a right tackle position where his measurables seem to be exactly what the doctor ordered, just couldn't keep it together.  And then there were less critical moments, where Richardson still couldn't keep it together.  He gave up far too much on the right side, and was whistled for a pair of holds and was not whistled for offsides, when he definately should have, perhaps twice.  Richardson doesn't have a lot of competition at backup right-tackle to fend off -- they've bumped Colin Brown inside, and Herb Taylor is now strictly left-side -- but any chance he had at McIntosh's position has been a disaster if this game is any judgment.

Any and all returnmen. A welcome change of pace was the fact that the special teams play was exemplary on defense.  No big returns, and not just by accident; the Chiefs swarmed every play.  It also doesn't hurt when both of your kickers play very, very well (way to go, Succop!).  The one gaping hole was very obvious; we have nobody to return the ball.  Quentin Lawrence is simply not ready, but I support giving him the job at this point.  Savage will occasionally give you a 30-50 yard return but he will never get to the endzone, and Robert Wright was completely awful.  Lawrence was awful, too, but at least we can give him a season of practice if nobody else is capable of returning the ball adequately...

QB Tyler Thigpen.  Only in the desperate world of wishful thinking could we consider what Thigpen did tonight as effective quarterbacking.  Standing back in the pocket on his limited time in the game, Thigpen had zero composure behind a leaky, overwhelmed third string OL.  His accuracy was next to zero.  And not once, but several times did he abandon the proven mechanics of passing to desperately heave a side-armed or over-the-shoulder or across-the-body haul.  I don't care if some of them were effective, some of them will always be effective, but you can't win doing it.  Outside of his incredibly entertaining scrambling ability, Thigpen is not in Cassel and Croyle's league right now.

THE SCRUBS:

ROLB Andy Studebaker.  Studebaker was not just the guy who racked up a sack in the middle of the game off a four-man rush.  He is a guy off the street who made himself look incredibly convincing as a strong-side rushing backer.  His coverage, like every linebacker's coverage on this team right now (hello, season-long-Achilles-heel), left something to be desired, but he is a blue-collar animal on the line of scrimmage.  He's developed enough moves to be disruptive and his push alongside whichever DE he ended up supporting was always pretty strong.  Studebaker is fighting for a spot on this team and he deserves recognition for a great game.

WR Terrance Copper.  Copper had the dream of a lifetime for any NFL scrub by getting to start on the back of Haley's reward-those-who-earn-it preseason program.  Copper is a roamer who doesn't have a great size/speed combo, but you can tell that Haley loves him for working the field properly.  Copper ran sharp routes (especially button-hooks) for much of the time he was in, and he drew Cassel's attention regularly.  He only brought in one catch all evening but he created a couple chances for another, and drew a much-needed penalty.

C Eric Ghiaciuc.  This is largely a result of the second-string OL mostly dominating in their time on the field.  Ghiaciuc, a guy whose arrival was met by some jeers from Chiefs faithful, was the sargeant of this period of the game.  Adding a feather to Ghiaciuc's cap was the fact that for much of the time he was playing, the Chiefs' gameplan was focused on running the team's smallest running back up the gut over and over.  With his help, and his work calling out assignments to protect Brodie "Mr. Glass" Croyle, the Chiefs were largely successful. Ghiaciuc may start challenging Niswanger for starting center, in a weird-name brawl-out at the very center of the offensive line.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Direckshun!!!!!

Rec’d just because it you alone!

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

Future Mrs. DTR

Dark matter...each pound of which weighs 10,000 pounds.

by DThomasReigns on Aug 15, 2009 11:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

*it is you

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

Future Mrs. DTR

Dark matter...each pound of which weighs 10,000 pounds.

by DThomasReigns on Aug 15, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would like to see Guycheck run with the first team.

Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!

by Eric Allen on Aug 15, 2009 11:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Maybe next week?

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 15, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe they will mix it up a little,

could not hurt.

Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!

by Eric Allen on Aug 15, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good post

mine:

Studs: Bowe for sure
Croyle- I hate to admit it, but he looked very solid
Hali- did a great job penetrating into the backfield against the pass and run
Mark Bradley- looked like a #2 WR to me

Duds: Sean Ryan- a couple of big drops won’t help him win that starting TE job
Devard Darling- anyone see him make a big play? Nope, me either…
                    he’ll be cut soon, I think.
Turk McBride- not sure if he showed enough to save his roster spot

Scrubs: Corey Mays- made several tackles, looks like he’ll make the team at ILB
Studebaker- CAN rush the passer… fighting for a job, could get one
Rodney Wright- I thought he was on his way to a good game, with a catch or two..
                     but, fumbling on a kick return might just cost you a roster spot
Jovan Belcher- He kept showing up in the middle of the action, he may just be the “right 53” material

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Aug 15, 2009 11:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts

on Hali is that he did okay. Everytime he came around the end he crashed down, but they made a lot of cut back runs which was our weak spot last year too. And they had several big runs that were cutback that we didn’t cover very well.

by Primmtime on Aug 16, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

last time I checked scrubs were people who suck

by SayHeyWerd on Aug 15, 2009 11:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought the same thing

but, I think the way to read it is…

Scrubs = backups or longshots that showed something in this game (good or bad)

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Aug 15, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then in that case

Croyle = Scrub.

Herm Edwards: "There's FOUR quarters in football?!"

by IISaiNtII on Aug 16, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and like TLC

“No, I don’t want no scrubs, a scrub is a guy who can’t get no love from me.”

Herm Edwards: "There's FOUR quarters in football?!"

by IISaiNtII on Aug 16, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Clever use of the double negative.

It can mean whatever you want it to.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Direckshun!

You are still my favorite commenter/manager/anything in AP history.

Just awesome stuff, always.

And again, outstanding. Couldn’t agree more.

by rockchalk on Aug 15, 2009 11:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes

it’s nice when he finds the time to visit us twice a year

by KansasCityShuffle on Aug 16, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

DJ

I almost forgot to mention DJ

He looked like a big time Stud tonight.
was all over the field making tackles.
he might get 120 tackles this season at that pace

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Aug 15, 2009 11:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

pollard, flowers and leggett too!

good DB play for the most part

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Aug 15, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pollard (reportedly) struggled in coverage.

Big hits are the easy part of the job. Running sideline-to-sideline is what the S does. But covering receivers is also part of it, and what I’ve heard, Pollard wasn’t nearly as effective in that role.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as always

that’s always the knock on Pollard.
but he makes plays, and was all over the field hitting people last night

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Aug 16, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he kept playing after getting rolled up on his right leg.

The announcers thought it was a helmet to the thigh, but they only noticed Pollard limping 3 or 4 plays after he grabbed his leg after rolling backward with his right leg trapped in full flex underneath him.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love this...

This better happen after every game…

Good to hear from you Direckshun…

by woodman212 on Aug 15, 2009 11:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How about some LJ comments?

He did ok.

And yes, “scrubs” means “people who can’t play.” It’s always meant that. In every sport and profession. I’d suggest changing that bit.

by Justin Bopp on Aug 16, 2009 12:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Croyle looked good because he had Bowe

he looked just like he always has, He can make some good plays and get yards but he can’t get a TD.Only difference that I liked about Croyle is that he did take a few hits and got up.
I’ll take a guy who can score a TD.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Aug 16, 2009 12:53 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Good post

have to talk about thigpen because I am so tired of hearing about him. Why do people continue to insist on him as a legitimate qb? You hit everything on the head. Zero pocket presence. Zero composure. Terrible Arm. Even worse decision making ability.

Classic example is the last drive. 2-10 with about a minute left. He gets a little pressure and bails on the pocket. Sprints to the right, gets in trouble and tries to underhand shovel pass the ball to savage who fumbles. That makes it 3-21. On 3 down, he again bails on the pocket, and sprints left this time. Sees… God knows what, and LOBS THE BALL ACROSS HIS BODY TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD. somehow its not intercepted. His mechanics and ways that he tries to throw the ball… are indescribably bad.

next play he gets intercepted and the game is over.

This is the guy that is supposed to compete with Cassel?

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 12:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He played behind 3rd stringers last season and last night.

I agree with much of what you say, but at the same time, I’m waiting to see him in a situation where it’s all on him, and not on excruciatingly extenuating circumstances, that would leave Cassel 0-for-8 on completions and Brokie’s body parts being hastily assembled and carted off the field on a stretcher. If he had any reason to trust the pocket when he actually gets one, that’d be one thing.

I’ve just seen too many QBs be downgraded in poor situations over the years, only to flourish when given a chance in a GOOD situation, and I have yet to see Thiggy do anything but play it tough, with very little help. I’ll see how much time Brokie and Thiggy each had, on average, when I see the game later today. After a season spent surviving behind last year’s o-line, Thigpen’s internal clock is set at about 1 second in the pocket, before he’s off to the races.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone keeps talking how he was playing with the 3rd string

well yes that is true, but he was also playing against the 3rd string.

by Helmets on Aug 17, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And their 3rd string was sending 4 and STILL coming unblocked.

Definitely not as good a situation as Croyle enjoyed. I still think Thiggy can develop into something special, but he’s a project and not a complete QB at this point.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree,

Thiggy Smalls may look completely retarted and unorthodox, but all he does is score touch downs. Maybe a little development and a reason to trust his blind side and we would have ourselves a special player. Scoring touches is the whole point, not looking pretty in the pocket; ask Steve Young. Not that Thigs is Steve young but he has the same approach.

by fishhooks on Aug 17, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because he's short, passing lanes are important

and he’s likely to struggle in the pocket. Same was said of Flutie. Fact is, though, you have to re-tool your offense to protect a guy who throws on the move, Myself, I’d rather have a Flutie, but it requires outside-the-NFL-box thinking.

Where I think Thigpen is unequivocally an asset to the team is in short yardage and red zone. Most of the things we like about Cassel/Croyle tend to be negated on the short field, where INTs seem to proliferate, and a guy like Thiggy can stretch things laterally.

Some of the problems Cassel/Croyle have with INTs in the red zone could be fixed by getting better push from the O-Line, like they did under Vermeil, when if you gave Priest 3 opportunities from inside the 10, you were probably going to score a TD.

Of course, the best solution is to get a few cheap TDs off of big plays! Guys like Lelie may help with that category, which was a big part of the 9ers team’s success, years ago.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could you imagine

using Thigpen as a third-down specialist at QB instead of using a RB. Just sayin’ it’d be fun.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Aug 18, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3rd and short, maybe.

On the 3rd and long’s I don’t see him finding the open guy down the field a very high percentage of the time. He can bust a manageable down-and-distance for a big play, and get a 3rd and 4 or 5 a high percentage of the time with his feet or with a short pass, but, like with the pass to Taurus Johnson on Saturday, and the floater over the middle on the final drive of the game, I think he takes a back seat to a better pure passer.

On 3rd and long, he might be a threat lined up as a HB. Not sure what the rules would say about that, though.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 19, 2009 2:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Pocket……………he had no pocket and i doubt he is getting as many snaps as Cassell, still Cassell managed to get nothing with the first unit, and Bones put 7 points on the board with the 3rd stringers.
We still have guys on here who think they can evaluate a QB when he is playing with a bunch of guys who wont make the team. Put him in there with Bowe and Bradley and the starting o-line then judge him. yeah he was running for his life because he had no blocking, and im pretty sure Brokie and Cassell would have looked like shit too with that unit.

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 16, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

geez.

This is what I keep saying. its an illusion. it looks like he has no pocket because he doesn’t know how to avoid the rush while keeping his eyes downfield in the pocket. he bolts. and at that point he is running for his life. but that is not the o’lines fault.

I’m one of the guys you are talking about I guess. we can evaluate a qb on his body of work. he was a bright spot on a bad team last year. But will never win in the NFL. Never. If he was as good as he is made out to be. he would have dominated tonight against 3rd stringers. Instead, he looked a shade faster, but still a 3rd string qb. Not comparing him to tom brady, but if tom brady played against 3rd stringers how good do you think he would do? thigpen looked like a 3rd stringer

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Its a illusion WTF are you talking about? Its a fact the 3rd string o-line sucks ass, and im willing to bet that Brokie or Cassel wouldnt have even got a score with that unit. When i see him with the first or second unit then i’ll judge, but not until then.

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 16, 2009 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you saw him with the 1st unit last year

and he looked like the same guy that played tonight.

3rd string o-line is not good. but, as I said, its not like our third string was going against mario williams and okoye. it was their 3rd string “suck ass” d-line.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yea we saw him last year

And for the games he played in he was an above average to a good QB. Obviously unconventional, and has some accuracy issues. But what do you expect from a guy who is basically a rookie and a third stringer? I would like to see THigpen behind the second string o-line and see how he does and Brodie behind the third.

by Scaryclouds on Aug 16, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll definitely keep this in mind, thalove:

This is what I keep saying. its an illusion. it looks like he has no pocket because he doesn’t know how to avoid the rush while keeping his eyes downfield in the pocket. he bolts. and at that point he is running for his life. but that is not the o’lines fault.

I won’t see the game ‘til late morning, and it’ll prob’ly take me 5 hours to get through it, with all the pause-and-rewind I’ll be doing with the DVR, to try to see where everybody is on every play, in spite of shitty t.v. camera angles. But when I watch, I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Keep in mind, however, that I’ve seen exactly the same tendency you’re talking about in Donovan McNabb, who was conditioned by his o-line to vacate the pocket in a hurry, even when they DID set it up for him, properly. And McNabb is not a bad QB, even though he really struggled to find Terrell Owens (when he was an Iggle), largely, again, because he rarely had time to survey the field, and as a RESULT, he rarely stood in there and used all the time he DID have, on those rare occasions when he DID get the time. His mental clock is accelerated because he simply didn’t trust his protection.

Under those conditions, the main chance for athletes like McNabb or Thigpen is to go on the move and try to improvise something in the moment. Get revved up, grit your teeth, and get AFTER IT! McNabb was blessed to have Westbrook in there to play some street ball along WITH him. Thigpen didn’t have that same quality of RB to work with.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean to EQUATE Thigpen and McNabb, even though I try to watch all the Philly games, and see similarities. There were NUMEROUS times when McNabb looked mediocre when he actually got to stand in the pocket, and I’m FAR from giving up on McNabb.

Anyhoo, I know just what you mean with your “illusion” remark. It’s hard to sound reasonable saying it (and easy to be ripped for it), but you sure know it when you see it. And I’ve seen just what you’re talking about. When all he’d have to do is take one step left and one step forward, and keep his eyes down the field. I’m with ya.

At this writing, I ascribe even some of THOSE plays to the fact that the QB has reason to NOT trust the pocket, so that he misplays it the one time he actually HAS a pocket. When the o-line is doing a consistently good job, it gets easier to keep your eyes down the field and make those tiny re-positioning maneuvers that let you stay in the pocket and deliver the ball. Where you and I disagree, right now, is whether it’s natural lack of trust by a good QB or just a guy who doesn’t have it, period.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

David Carr Syndrome

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Aug 16, 2009 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Only Carr got sacked a LOT more than Thiggy

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nicely done...

I think your points are very good ones. Thigpen did make a lot with a not so good offensive line last year, and he made games watchable. There is no questioning that he has a unique set of physical tools.

I think this has been a great discussion, sorry I got a little heated. Your summary is good. I don’t think the guy has it. Its my opinion, but I do respect yours when presented like that.

I had not thought of the McNabb comparison. There are similarities. Thigpen did not have the eagles defense last year, if he had… even though I shutter to think of it, we might not have even traded for cassel. We probably would have ran away with the west.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One big happy family.

People aren’t necessarily stupid or football-stupid, just because they see things differently, unless, of course, they see things differently from the way I see them. Next time, don’t make me work so hard. Just take what I say on blind faith, accept that God has a plan, and that I’ve included the Chiefs in that plan.

And when you can snatch the pea from my hand, grasshoppah, you will be ready to leave this place.

Heh.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thigpen was playing with the 3rd string...Nuff said

He barely had any time to throw, and last time I checked he scored our only touch down and he was very instruemental throughout the drive..

Thigpen doesn’t have the sexy arm that croyle does, but last time I checked the guy produces in games when it actually counts..And he’s our best regular season performing quarterback since Trent Green..His performance last year was far better than anything Croyle did..And actually, he thinks quite well on his feet..

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

seriously?

he went 2-14 last year. best performing qb? You could do just as well. 2-14? Really?

And as I stated. he barely has time to throw because he can’t read a defense, and he bails on the pocket. When you bail on the pocket all bets are off. he was playing with the third string… against the third string. He was our starter last year, so if he was playing with the third string his PASSING ability should really shine should it not?

It doesn’t because he doesn’t have any passing ability. Look at the tape and find some example of him. Under center, taking a 3-5 step drop. Looking at his primary, stepping up and making a good hard throw.

You won’t find any.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pocket? What pocket?

Does that 2-14 apply to D-Bowe, as well?

Have you looked at Thigpen’s rankings for the 2nd half of last season?

I’m not defending him as deserving to start. I’m only defending him because of the degree of hate he’s getting, most of which being undeserved.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the pocket

… that is there before he bails!!! that one! He has started running before he’s even completed his drop! when you break the pocket, you get pressure and it looks like you don’t have time.

What rankings? Surely not the passing accuracy ranking. I know you aren’t talking about that one.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See for yourself.

QB rating up in the top 3rd among QBs, if I recall correctly. But certainly respectable. And yes, completion percentage is part of that rating. You’re trying to win an argument more than you’re trying to exchange ideas, here.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed.

He irritates me. I spent a lot of time towards the end of last year yelling at the tv because the qb play was so bad. Don’t mean to turn it into an argument, I’m just frustrated with how much love a very “ungood” qb gets.

That’s all.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And others of us are tired of all the hate, when what WE saw last year

was a tough player making the best of a bad situation.

After being sacked x number of times when you DO stand in there and survey the field, it’s only natural to be on a hair-trigger when it comes to taking off and running, especially when, other than Tony G last year, the odds of success are much higher with your feet than with the WR’s hands.

I saw a BUNCH of times when Thigpen would start the game trusting his receivers (like Webb) be rewarded by a drop, and start zeroing-in on Tony G. Once established, that lack of trust is hard to cure. Thiggy might never develop into the pretty passer everyone wants to see.

Maybe he’ll get to play with better players next outing, and we’ll get a better assessment.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thalove -- were you happier when croyle was in the game throwing his

beautifully spiraled 5-10 yard passes that resulted in punts and field goals? I thought it seemed pretty clear that our offense really progressed last year once thigpen came in..But maybe it’s just me

No one stated Thigpen is a superbowl qb..But the hate he gets from fans especially after how he helped transform our TERRIBLE offense into a respectable and efficient offense is really underserved..

Did you really not see a difference in the offense last year? I thought it was pretty obvious

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Brodie threw great passes, but never looked like a leader on the field.

Thigpen, for all his warts, was clearly in charge and playing to put a hurt on the other guys. It was like night and day, with the NOBODY just takin’ the bit in his teetch, and the ANOINTED looking pretty tentative and fragile.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 2:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man

you’re so biased, maybe you were watching another game. If anybody looked nervous it was Cassel. Brodie was calling signals and pointing out blocking assignments. Thigpen also appeared confident.

Brodie is the one who is being treated like the NOBODY here on the AP. The ANOITED are Cassel and Thigpen.

by choirboy on Aug 18, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was talking about last season.

Not just Saturday. Croyle played scared and quickly got hurt last season.

He looked pretty good Saturday.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Operative phrase in the post above was "last year."

I’m biased, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder, too.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We had the second to worse defense in the league

We set a historic low for sacks in a season. The next worse cam from a 12 game season. Do you really want to blame that 2-14 record on a guy who had a piss poor O-line and was a third stringer (meaning he didn’t have many reps before he was tossed in the fray) on top of that?

by Scaryclouds on Aug 16, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yuppers.

But hope springs eternal. 2 sacks per game times 16 games is 32 sacks. Cool. And they’re gettin’ ’em by a disciplined push from d-line plus a pesky DB.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have loved seeing croyle behind the 3rd team line

I wonder how much “composure” and “presence” and “decision making abilities” he would have had under the circumstances..It’s pretty hard to improvise when your line man don’t block, the receivers aren’t set up yet since the o line didn’t block effectively, and now ya gotta run..Give the guy a break..

@thalove -— You CANNNOOOTT blame thigpen for our 2-14 record last year…AT ALL…First off he only played half of the season..We had one of the worst defenses in history..And he completely reignited our offense..We went from awful to exciting within about two games…Did you actually watch any of the games last year? Quit making general statements

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

...

I did give the guy a break. When he went 2-14 last year. I’ve watched him do the same crap for 16 games now, and I am so sick and tired of listening to people say, “oh, pigpen is great!” he’s not.

Croyle played behind the 2nd string line. against houston’s 2nd stringers. Thigpen played behind the 3rd line, against houston’s 3rd stringers. If he is so good, his passing ability should dominate! Its not like he was playing against houston’s STARTERS!!!!

I don’t blame him for going 2-14, but he was certainly a large contributor. Yes the defense was bad. But so way thigpen. He was near the bottom of the league in accuracy in an offense designed for him. That should cause some alarms to go off.

Instead we get, “oh he just needs more time, let’s see what he can do with the 1st teamers.” BS. We saw that last year, and he was terrible then, and he is terrible now.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was terrible last year? Really?

For a 2nd year player that rode the bench and hardly even participated with the 1st or 2nd string offense I think he did a really good job of adapting and pointing points on the board..

Our O Line was awful last year in a traditional offense..I’m with mills on this..Huard and Croyle never had a whole lot of time to throw and were simply not effective at all last year..Thigpen doesn’t have a great arm and yes his style of play is sloppy..But he’s the only thing that kept me watching games last year after I saw us get slammed by the panthers last year..

Agree to dissagree..Anyways hopefully Cassel is the real deal!

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

:) We do agree

I liked watching thigpen, and I know there is the emotional attachment to a plucky player doing some exciting things on a bad team.

maybe my beef is that I wish people would just leave it at that. a bad player that played with heart on a bad team, gave us some good moments and should ride off into the sunset.

Hopefully cassel is the real deal. I was thinking while watching some of the highlights from other games today. “I hope cassel is the real deal, cuz it sure looks like the last two years of QB’s drafted are going to be good for a long time.” If cassel isn’t it, we could have just missed out on a golden age of next gen qbs. So yes, hopefully cassel is it, and we aren’t talking in 20 years about the back to back years in which we could have had flacco, or Sanchez.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stafford looked damn good in his first outing.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep,

except for that pick, those two throws he made. Wow. on the money, over the defender, under the safety. With zip. with him its a question of between the ears. but man… that arm. I wanted him.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with ya, Cali.

We don’t really know how good Thigpen can be. He has some crazy physical tools to work with, but very little experience running the pro set. And I’ll even semi-grant the point that the ArrowSpread was at least partly to do with Thiggy’s background and makeup. But everyone seems to forget that the pro set behind that o-line cost the Chiefs 2 QBs in rapid succession. Thigpen STILL has very little experience under center.

But I’ll tell ya. I was expecting the Chiefs to KEEP running the spread, until they had the right side of the o-line figured out, and that was a big part of why they brought in Cassel, so that the Chiefs would have two young, tough QBs who could RUN that spread in a damn HURRICANE.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I THINK it was 2 wins in 14 outings.

Is that right, guys?

Brokie and Damon didn’t last long.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thigpen

Played in 14 games and started 11.

He only started 1 win. He didn’t play in the other.

He had a QB rating over 80 in 6 of his starts (over 100 twice), and his one win was not one of those starts.

In his 10 consecutive starts to end the season he went 1-9, but he went 192 for 330 passing (58.1%) for 2,216 yards with 16 TDs to 8 INTs. He got sacked 20 times.

by stlfan on Aug 16, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thx, stlfan.

And if you start at Game 9, and track the rest of the way thru, his numbers are somewhat better in the last 8 games. Still ugly. But still respectable.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha

Watched every game. If you are so much more dedicated then me…. why do you only know that croyle and huard “started quite a few games”

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm cool

… but it ain’t cool to say I didn’t suffer through 16 terrible games last year and don’t know what I’m looking at.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that's what you're telling anyone with the audacity to disagree with you.

And we ALL suffered through the same season you did. You’re not THAT unique, and maybe, just MAYbe, you’re just a little too eager to bail on Thigpen. Don’t take it personally that I’m not bailin’ on him, at least not yet.

Many of the things you and others say about him bailing on the pocket or pulling it down, rather than looking for an open guy with that extra tick his feet bought him are seen by others and me. But after decades of watching the game, I look a little deeper at the cause-and-effect relationships, and reserve judgement on a particular player.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

of course we all suffered last year. Unless you are a steelers fan.

If you can present me with some intangibles on why not to bail on him I will listen. I just haven’t seen any case presented other than something along the lines of “he scores points” or “he is fun to watch.” After watching the game so long and looking at thigpen, why shouldn’t you bail on him?

I just don’t see anything there that suggests he could be superbowl qb in this league.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're the guy who's bringing up how HE suffered.

I was just reminding you that this room is FULL of people who suffered through the same thing.

It’s not that Thigpen looks like a SB winner. It’s his tool set and heart that we admire, and he’s a YOUNG player. I’m just not ready to bail on him, yet, and that’s all that’s being said.

Are you saying that based on what you’ve seen of Brokie that he IS a SB QB?

If you’d look at some of the discussions we’ve had, here, about Brokie, you’d know that we ALL appreciate Brokie’s arm, footwork, and mechanics. He can look like a world-beater. I, for one, have said rePEATedly that I would expect Croyle to look better than BOTH Cassel and Thigpen in camp, because of the way he can sling the rock, and the natural way he moves around – He looks GOOD. But in actual games, he just doesn’t seem to last very long.

You feel let down by Thigpen for all those losses. Well, Croyle let me down much sooner.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...

to me this is not at all about brodie. Nothing I have said in any of these threads is inferring that brodie is better than thigpen. Haven’t really thought about who I “like” better. Neither of them are sb qb’s.

I’m hoping cassel is. If they aren’t, they all need to go until we find one.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

I only brought up how much I suffered in response to someone stating I didn’t watch any games last year.

didn’t bring it up to suggest that no one else suffered. I’m just saying, don’t tell me(not you specifically mills, someone else) I didn’t watch that train wreck last year. Because I did.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look at it this way:

Cassel is pre-emptive favorite for #1 QB.

If the o-line continues to struggle and they need to rely on the spread more often than not, to win, he’s still the starter, with Thigpen #2.

If the o-line turns it around (Jon Runyan at RT?) and the QB gets great protection, Cassel’s the starter, with Croyle #2.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point was that Thigpen didn't play 16 games last year..

He played 10 or so?

I’d be willing to bet he averaged more points a game as our qb than anyone else has since Trent Green…Plus you can’t blame a qb who is helping us improve from scoring 10 points a game to 20+ points a game when the defense is simply horrendous..I’m sorry thigpen didn’t play defense last year really I am..

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree with you there

We did score points last year with thigpen. We just didn’t win games. Defense was a part of it, but so was the offense.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure it's a team game..Anyways it doesn't matter a whole since

neither thigpen or croyle are gonna be playing a whole lot at qb anyways this season..Well atleast I’m hoping soooo…I’d love to see him become our franchise qb

by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 16, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

whew… I was about to get riled up again!!!

yes. I REALLY hope he is our franchise qb.

by thalove on Aug 16, 2009 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice post, Direckshun. Wrecked.

Liked your 2nd-string o-line comment. We may’ve learned two things from this:

  1. Chiefs depth is improving.
  2. Texans lack depth on d-line.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 1:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent Post...Rec'd

In the scrubs category I think you also have to recognize Corey Mays. I think we may well have found a starter here. If Thomas is unable to play I think this guy can at the very least fill in. I’ll be interested to see how Zach does this year, but at least someone is stepping up to cover the spot. Belcher also looked decent.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 16, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

heard you on Mays

This guy was in the middle of everything that occurred between the tackles during the time he was in. ZT is bad-ass, but old and injury prone. Look for Mays to have a very solid, of not breakout year.

by reedeasy on Aug 16, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, Thigpen played with 3rd string

but he was also playing AGAINST third string.

he was injured. injured bad.

by troy145 on Aug 16, 2009 9:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not bad list...

Totally disagree about Thigpen though because of the Oline. He might as well have been taking snaps with pylons in front of his.

Also DJ makes the stud list. He was around the ball as much if not more then Mays.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 16, 2009 12:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Only hit on Mays was biting on the play fake.

Of course smacking the RB at the line DOES take him out of the pass pattern.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 16, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Colin Brown..

I think he actually did very well in that right guard spot. In fact, I will watch him this preseason but I thought he looked much better than Goff did actually. And I was high on the Goff signing, but he did not impress last night. Sackintosh has to be replaced. #1 priority in my opinion.

by fixitquick79 on Aug 17, 2009 1:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was disappointed with Cox.

Didn’t think he played all that hard. He was only in with LJ, and he got knocked ass over teakettle, along with Mike Goff as a lead blocker.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brodie just got unlucky with those injuries

He was the most sacked QB in the league, of course he’s going to get hurt behind Herm’s offensive line of old ladies. Then he took a shot to the knee, which would knock any QB out. Just like what happened to rex grossman, and now he’s healthy and was able to play two full seasons. Brodie’s better than him though. If they call it open competition, they should let this become a competition between Cassel and Croyle. I’d rather see the chiefs play it smart then to just throw everything Cassel’s way.

by TonylovesKC on Aug 18, 2009 10:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Croyle took a lot of brutal hits

before going out with the knee last year.

If he plays with more confidence, there’ll be less of that, and he seems to be playing with more confidence. But it’ll take him some serious playing time injury-free to escape the “Brokie” moniker.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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