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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Glenn Dorsey: From Tradable Asset to Key to the Defense

A few months ago, when Scott Pioli and the Chiefs first decided they would run the 3-4 defense this year, Glenn Dorsey seemed destined for one of two things: a trade, or failure.

Star-divide

Dorsey's skill set and body type just do not fit what most people think about typical 3-4 defensive lineman; he is not heavy or squat enough to play nose tackle, and he is not tall and athletic enough to play defensive end. (For an in-depth article on this, click here)

3-4 linemen are supposed to take up blocks and let the linebackers do the work, not penetrate and blow things up in the backfield, and that is exactly what Dorsey is best at doing.

We weren't the only one's who made this connection—that Dorsey's unique skill set would go to waste in the 3-4—the Chiefs realized this too, and made adjustments.

"A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not," said Dorsey. "Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap."

"There's a place for me on this defense."

So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis.

Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle.

Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent.

Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time.

With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard. Dorsey left one-on-one with a guard is a match up I will take any day of the week.

This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the offenses, but will apply pressure on the quarterback's blindside from two different positions, causing even more chaos.

Getting this kind of pressure from a defensive end in a 3-4(ish) scheme is very unique, and is sure to cause confusion for the opposing offensive line. Only the Cardinals have run this scheme before, and is still very new to the NFL.

Hopefully the Chiefs will be able to exploit this new fad to the fullest, much like the "Wildcat" formation has done thus far.

 

(Originally posted by me, TJ Gerrity, here)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 39 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Until I read this article

I always thought that DE’s in the 3-4 typically lined up between the T and G and the NT lined up over the C. I always looked at the OLB to be going against the T’s if one blitz’s.

I looked at a couple videos and thats primarily what I see but I do see some DE’s going after T’s sometimes. Typically, when I saw that, the ILB’s were blitzing.

I was never on the “Dorsey can’t do it” bandwagon because I think he has plenty of strengths to be successful in the 3-4. He can shoot the gap and get after the RB/QB and he can take up space for the LB’s to get after the ballcarrier. Jackson and Dorsey are more alike than people think.

I’m curious, how often does a 3-4 DE line up directly over the T? I couldnt find much of anything on that and now im surious.

by Petey14 on Aug 13, 2009 2:10 AM CDT reply actions  

But isn't Dorsey the RDE?

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 14, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depends.

One’s an “Over” and one’s an “Under”.

You’re referring to the Under. Hmills110 is referring to an Over. Both are correct.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 14, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did I get my left and right mixed-up, there?

I believe I did somewhere in this thread. Sorry.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its the same on the other side as well

Only the RDE will slide left to shade the left shoulder of the LG.

I could get more sacks with my sack

by ArrowSpread on Aug 14, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I got my left and right mixed-up.

That really fucks with the discussion. Sorry.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know you know your shit

No biggie. I actually had ‘RG’ instead of ‘LG’ and confused myself during writing.

"This aint Club Med, baby!"
"The pain train is comin!!!"
"WOOOOoooooo!"
-The Terrible Terry Tate

by ArrowSpread on Aug 14, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah. That's it.

You messed up the whole conversation.

And be careful who you accuse of knowin’ shit.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1 someone finally gets it.

Pioli is not stupid. His resume and his offseason moves here clearly show that. He knows that Dorseys trade value right now is higher then it would be after another “down” season. Do you really think he keeps this player on our roster, when his trade value is at its peak, if he and the coaching staff dont think this player will work?

With the different looks that a 3-4 can have and with the different fronts we’ll be running they’re going to put Dorsey in situations where he can be a factor unlike the previous staff who even had the benefit of running Dorseys “ideal” defense. Its not a question of if Dorsey is good enough, skilled enough, athletic enough or smart enough the only question that remains is will he buy in.

Great write up if I could rec it one more time I would. An extra note on his build, he actually has a greater wingspan then Jackson does and even though the height does affect leverage to a degree the arms and technique will have a far greater impact.

Now just need someone to write something up just like this about Bowe so we dont have to hear about it anymore.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 13, 2009 2:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Good post

I’ve been a Dorsey supporter. He had a good year last year for a rookie, and has the talent to be an absolute animal on the line. I’m fired up about the possibilities of the front seven this year. I think the D will be much better.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 13, 2009 7:35 AM CDT reply actions  

DORSEY IS NOT A DUMMY .....

I believe there was a lot to say about his character when he was drafted. Smart, hard worker, leader on his team at LSU, focused and determined. He seems to possess the qualities that the new regime is looking for. this is what i remember. That is part of what made him such a high draft choice. Don’t count this guy out. Because of those qualities, he will likely become the kind of player that everyone thought he would be. AND HE"S A KC CHIEF!!!!!

by dinomight on Aug 13, 2009 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Not to mention

That he’s surrounded by LSU alums who are hopefully pushing the hell out of each other to get better. Having that already-established camaraderie, and seeing how much work Tyson is putting in already after showing up late to camp, surely will put a fire under his ass. That goes for D-Bo as well.

I could get more sacks with my sack

by ArrowSpread on Aug 13, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I particularly like the wing-span argument

that Dorsey has a wider wing-span than Jackson. He’ll be interesting to watch this year for sure.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Aug 13, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

Makes a compelling little tid bit and supports the Glenn-Dorsey-Will-Succeed argument

by KU2010 on Aug 14, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

"This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the defenses..."

Please don’t tell me the goal is to confuse our own defense.

Once, I urinated a whole hotdog.

by LarryDoggyDog on Aug 13, 2009 1:23 PM CDT reply actions  

yeaaahhh....about thaaat

Thanks for noticing that. It’s been fixed :)

by KU2010 on Aug 14, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is what I've been saying for months, now.

“A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap.”

This is what I tried to tell KaloPhoenix yesterday.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 13, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes, I get that.

From the beginning of my post from a couple days ago:

Yes, we’ll see other looks, and yes, the defense will switch up from down to down. This is purely an evaluation of the base defense only. We know we’ll line up in a 3-4, that much is for sure. Shifts/hybrids/blitzes are all purely speculation at this point, so I won’t attempt to focus there until another post.

I’m the guy who made a giant post on the 4-3 Under way back when this and Tank’s quotes came to our attention, and in that, I was a strong advocate of using the hybrid. That shows that I know there will be many times where we’re not in the base formation, but as it has been identified as just that, our base defense, I made my post in regards to that.

I understand the point that you’re making, and I agree that those guys on the line are going to be moved to all sorts of different gaps depending on the situation. We haven’t seen that yet. When we do, assumptions/analysis can be made in that regard. That’s what I’ve been trying to explain all along to you and others who question our usage of the 3-4. I hope I’ve made myself clear this time.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 13, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uhhhhhhh...

I realized after re-reading that I may have come off a little strong. Please don’t take it that way, as I fully appreciate the conversation and analysis you bring to the table, and hope to continue that as the season goes along.

In other words, I’m not angry or upset as my response may be perceived, and I wish I had a damn edit button. =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 13, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I usually use a blue-winged olive on that run.

But you bit on the elk-hair caddis. Now if I can just wait on it, …., THERE! Hook is set. Now to reel you in to shore. Don’t worry. You’ll have a sore mouth, but on these cutthroat streams, I’m a pure catch-and-release guy.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 13, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

And dude. I linked to one of your positional analyses.

I haven’t forgotten.

And I bet we see some 5-tech outta Dorsey, as well, to be honest. It just isn’t likely to be the “base alignment,” and some of Pete Carroll’s comments about HIS 4-3 under probably won’t be directly applicable. The Pendergast 3-4 has been called 4-3 under by more than one writer, and recently.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 13, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tying on a pale morning dun...

Don’t worry about netiquette too much with ME, Kalo. I try to use good netiquette, but on the flip side, my skin is pretty thick.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 13, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's right.

Couldn’t remember who linked it the other day. Should’ve just checked and eliminated that from my rebuttle.

And I won’t argue the fact that we’ll see him in the UT role. Right now, you and I both know exactly the same amount about the specific gap assignments for each lineman: zero.

There was a time when Haley said the defense was in an “Under” back in OTA’s. They’re also working on traditional 3-4 drills, as you acknowledged, and the coaching staff has gone as far as to say that our base defense is a 3-4, also recently. As I have stated, it’s an evolving defense. My evaluations of the players will also evolve as the picture becomes clearer.

…and the “baiting” comment? I would’ve gone with a Hare’s Ear Nymph, personally.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 13, 2009 3:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm more of a dry fly guy.

You can see the action. And it’s what the gear was designed for.

Sometimes with nymphs, I wonder why I don’t just go with my ultralight gear. Once you put a copper john or a split shot on the end of your line, the whole fly-casting technique goes out the window. And if you’re long-stickin’ it, that fast action 4-wt rod is a waste of money. May’s well whittle up a pole from a tree branch and tie some twine to the end.

But the nymphers are the guys that CATCH FISH, even when there isn’t a hatch on.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amen

I’ve been making the same general argument to everyone I know. For some reason it seems like hating on Dorsey is en vogue the last 5-6 months and I’ve had to make the “4-3 under DT” argument a lot.

On the bright side of that though, all the explanation of 4-3 Under sets and the use of quick, penetrating DTs in said scheme has given me an excuse to do some pretty in depth research on defensive techniques and schemes which is always a good thing. Glad to see more people comin around!

Bask in the glory that is Kwame Harris. Poor Alex...

by JHWK on Aug 13, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup. I learned a lot back in April/May.

Always thought I had an eye for the battle in the trenches, but the discussion gave many of us a common language to break down what we’re seeing, and more insight on what to look for.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

VICK TO EAGLES>>>>

Big Gulps EH????? All right.....Welp....See Ya Later!

by XtaC69Chief on Aug 13, 2009 7:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Yawn.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ive been screaming it since last year...

When everyone was calling him a bust. He had one of the best rookie years ever for a DT. 1.5 yards was the average run on him or something like that. People just need to relax. some people expected him to come in and dominate from the jump. I knew that wouldnt happen. I bet he has a good as career as Sapp. Also I think he can play in the 3-4 just fine. Exspecially in the under Tech which ive been hearing about. When were in this under tech hell go 1 on 1 with a guard. Please Dorsey wins that match every time. I bet our D is the best in the division. Yeah I sia dit even over the Chargers.

by dougritchey on Aug 14, 2009 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Funny you mention Sapp.

He hated the 3-4. They always stuck him at nose tackle. He was still great, but it limited his opportunities at the QB/ballcarrier.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 14, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

From Profootballtalk.com

For example, the contract signed last year by Chiefs defensive end Glenn Dorsey, the fifth overall pick in the draft who like Maybin is represented by Joel Segal, has $10 million in escalators that depend on Dorsey being named the Super Bowl MVP.

Four times.

Specifically, $2.5 million in escalators each year are tied to Dorsey achieving that honor, along with other less unrealistic triggers. Indeed, in the 43-year history of the Super Bowl, a defensive tackle has been named Super Bowl MVP only 0.5 times, with Randy White of the Cowboys splitting the trophy with defensive end Harvey Martin after Super Bowl XII.

For someone who needs to win the superbowl mvp 4 times he sure is slacken a little

by Kcchiefsownuson on Aug 23, 2009 8:19 PM CDT reply actions  

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