Chiefs Training Camp Update 8/11 PM
by Chris Thorman on Aug 11, 2009 4:33 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Training Camp
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Updated 6:14 PM
The afternoon Kansas City Chiefs training camp updates are rolling in. We'll update this post as more info comes in.
For now, a few highlights:
- D. Bowe is still struggling
- Demorrio Williams is practicing for the first time this camp
- Five Chiefs sat out today rehabbing
More on today's training camp practice, after the jump.
General Stuff
- 81 degrees, 40% humidity and just a few clouds with a slight breeze
- 24 packages of 24 bottles of Gatorade were delivered today which should last the rest of camp (UWRF)
Offense
- WR Dwayne Bowe continues to struggle. When the Chiefs receivers were working on catching the ball while being hit by two coaches, Bowe was 0-6. He was the only receiver that didn't catch at least one pass. (Bob Gretz at CBS Sports)
- Amani Toomer had a nice catch over the middle during 11 on 11 (Josh Looney at the Mothership)
- One of the biggest highlights of watching camp practices are the OL/DL one-on-one drills. Today was a great segment as C Rudy Niswanger stuck out as having a good round. Niswanger and DT Tank Tyler took a ton of reps against one another and both battled hard. (Josh Looney at the Mothership)
- The O has made a number of nice place on their way to the red zone, but the defense continues to step up and keep the offense out of the promise land. (Josh Looney at the Mothership)
- And the jinx comes right away as QB Tyler Thigpen hits WR Dwayne Bowe for a 35-yard TD. Bowe made a juggling catch, the type he has seemed to do best over his first two years in KC. (Josh Looney at the Mothership)
- Thigpen hit Jeff Webb for a completion. Ricky Price then hit Webb, who fumbled the ball (UWRF)
- Haley yelled at Dantrell Savage several times for not running hard (UWRF)
- Javarris Williams lost his shoe on a play but completed it before running back to pick it up (UWRF)
- More on Bowe's problems catching the ball in traffic: "Bowe was forced to repeat the drill multiple times but was unable to come up with a catch. Wide Receivers Coach Dedric Ward finally had enough and moved on." (UWRF)
- O-line coach Bill Muir to the line during a drill: "I am (freaking) tired of you peoples’ (crap)!” Muir said. (UWRF)
Defense
- Chiefs ILB Monty Beisel returned to practice after missing five days with an unknown injury. (Bob Gretz at CBS Sports)
- For the first time in this camp, Chiefs LB Demorrio Williams is dressed for practice. He missed the first 14 practices with an unspecified leg injury. (Bob Gretz at CBS Sports).
- Dion Gales and Derek Lokey both jumped offsides and had to run (UWRF)
- Haley complimented the defense on getting to the quarterback so much (UWRF)
- Thigpen fumbled a snap and Tank Tyler wrestled it away from Jackie Battle (UWRF)
- Alphonso Boone knocked down two consecutive Cassel passes (UWRF)
- Tyson Jackson and Alex Magee worked with Tim Krumrie in the heat after practice (UWRF)
Special Teams
- Another good day for Chiefs rookie K Ryan Succop. He was 4 for 4, hitting from 33, 36, 40 and 44 yards. (Bob Gretz at CBS Sports)
- Quinten Lawrence and Rodney Wright took all the returns today (UWRF)
Injuries/Not practicing
- Five players are missing from Chiefs practice and working with the rehab team: RB Kolby Smith, ILB Zach Thomas, S DaJuan Morgan and OGs Wade Smith and Tavares Washington. (Bob Gretz at CBS Sports)
- Brandon Albert left with the trainer for a few minutes but came back. He sat out one-on-one blocking drills (UWRF)
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It's really starting to bother me how much the offense is struggling to score.
…can’t tell if that means our Defense is all of the sudden REALLY improved over last year, or if our Offense is just worthless.
i'm wondering the same thing
seems like cassel is throwing a lot of picks, bowe really struggling, and the o-line is getting beat. I’m hoping it is our D stepping up but am starting to get a bad feeling. Its a good thing Succop is looking good and consistant because we may be settling for field goals once again this year
I'm hoping the D is really improved over last year
With all the high draft picks on D over the last few years, switching to the 3-4 instead of “Cover-2” (Is it a coincidence that defensive scheme is no longer in the NFL…I’d say no) I think the potential’s there to be atleast middle of the league on D this year. I’d be surprised if any team had higher draft picks on D than the Chiefs, so with proper coaching and planning/technique I think the D can be pretty good.
D-Line: Dorsey (R1, #5overall), Jackson (R1, #3 overall) Tank (R3)
LB: Johnson: (R1, #15? overall), Hali (R1) Vrabel and Thomas (if healthy) former Pro-bowlers
S: Pollard (R2), Page (R7, but also played baseball in college and got drafted by MLB team so may have dropped him in the football draft)…back-up Brown, former Pro-bowler
CB: Flowers (R2), Carr (R5?)
That’s 4-1st rd picks (two of which were top 5 the past 2 years) and 2-2nd rd picks on the D. Looking at the past few drafts the D should probably be ahead of the offense.
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
The secondary is the one coming up with all the big plays… They should… They had a bunch of practice at keeping on the WR’s for 7-10 sec last year :)
Our Secondary is the best part of our team hands DOWN this year… Any kind of pass rush this year and we are going to put up a mad amount of INT’s
by flyin_squirl on Aug 11, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
no more cover-2 in the NFL?
I think the announcement of the death of the cover-2 is a bit exaggerated. Lovie Smith isn’t ever going to abandon it completely… I think he believes he holds the patent on the thing (even though it goes back to the 70’s). And Meeks is installing a variation in Carolina. I’m sure other teams have a scheme like that in their bag of tricks.
Generally speaking, it is a good zone against a west-coast system, but suffers against more traditional schemes. Maybe it just seems to be going away because a lot the west-coast scheme is on the wane around the league.
Like everything else, even when it falls from favor, it will always be a weapon in a good coaches arsenal. And you can count on some coach in the future turning around a team with it and the pundits will call him a genius. Go figure.
by LennytheCool on Aug 11, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm. Not good.
Not only for the Chiefs. I had been considering taking Bowe in fantasy football as a 3rd year/new QB breakout. Now I’m losing faith in that idea.
Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!
Possibly one of the best things I've heard all camp
From Looney on Twitter:
Brian waters takes charge to lead the line through extra conditioning on their own postpractice…leadershipIt’s about time the vet steps up and helps make a line he wants to play on.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
by Zodeman on Aug 11, 2009 4:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good catch and Waters need to lead this line :)
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 11, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I know what you guys mean but...
Don’t put too much weight into this. This IS practice. The defense generally gels much faster than the offense and it will take a while to establish timing. Also, I understand that the running game is still looking very good and as long as we can run the ball effectively, we should be able to pass pretty effectively too.
Remember: the defense knows they are passing on them at practice. The offense does not have the advantage of surprising the defense with different play calls. You are essentially trying to beat a defense that knows exactly what play you are running. That advantage goes to the D every single time.
BTW: D-Bowe will be just fine. He needs to get his shit together but, when it comes down to it, he will be a better player for it.
Right on, 1970.
We’ve heard this same thing from camp for years. It was especially noticeable during McGlockton/Sims/Williams, as I recall. Then one guy on the starting d-line would get nicked and the D would disappear during the season. I don’t think (knock on wood) the success of the D hinges on the health of one guy on the d-line, anymore. But I AM worried about o-line giving a false take on the actual level of play on the d-line.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I don't know if this is accurate or not,
but it seems to me we struggled against teams running the 3-4 more than the 4-3 teams last year…I may just be imagining things…
Virtus En Arduo
Everybody struggles more against the 3-4
Which is why Haley wanted to go with it. He has been scheming against it for years and it just gives so many matchup problems. I also think part of it is our D-line may be coming together. We have a lot of guys entering that time of career when they “get it” and improve. Not to mention the LBs are a much better set than we had last year. But it always happens for the D before the O.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
It's still really too soon to predict
but i think bowe will be fine. Haley is problably going extra hard on him like he did to Fitsgerald in AZ, to make him tougher, smarter, more prepared… I hope.
You have to remember...
In practice the D KNOWS the O is psssing and usually what route/reciever is going to get it. So they are able to make riskier plays on the ball like jumping routes when there is no safety to help if they miss etc. Which they would not do during a game. I wouldn’t look too much into that overall. I am discouraged by D.Bowe but engouraged by Toomer Write and a certain extent Darling. I am not so in love with the player to say he does not deserve to ride the bench until he pulls his head out of his ass and start catching balls. If Darling and Toomer and/or Wright give us a better chance to win then by all means make D.Bowe #3 maybe it will make him work to improve instead of just trying to coast on what he percieves his talent to be. Yes, he made some good catched last year but he also screwed up a good number that helped to lose games.
Bowe
What Gretz failed to mention is that although Bowe went 0 for 6 in the drill where the WRs get crushed by coaches with pads is that 3 of the throws from various QBs were off and the last from Cassel hit the ground before getting to Bowe on what is no more than a 10 yard throw. So you can’t blame Bowe. He had some grea grabs in other parts of practice.
In another drill where WRs run around cones in a sqaure form and have 4 balls from 5 yards away consecutively chucked at them Bowe caught all 4, spikd the last ball, ripped his helmet off and celebrated…. The only problem Haley was watching/looking right at Bowe, probably didn’t help Bowe’s cause.
by B3I3R on Aug 11, 2009 5:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
That sounds right! D-Bowe needs to quit showboating at practice. That seems to be getting him into trouble.
Why is a ten yard Cassel pass hitting the ground??? That is the real question.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 11, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I was asking myself
that same question. While it’s great that one of the drops wasn’t Bowe’s fault, why is our QB throwing a 10yard pass short or “off”? HMM
by HeatherChiefsLvr on Aug 11, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
while I don't like to hear that
every quaterback has some bad throws, especially in practice
by midmochieffan on Aug 11, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
i dunno
it bothers me too all this stuff. On one hand we are hearing that Cassel is a great leader and has “IT”, but on the other hand he is throwing bad balls and picks. I am slightyl worried but I haven’t seen them live yet. Hopefully we get some positives out of the game this week.
Rodney Wright
Lot of people think he’ll make the team. I doubt it…he had 2 drops today and also dropped a punt. He looks good at times but I’m not sure where he fits in.
With Copper and Darling working with the first team the last two days the WR corps might end up being Darling, Bowe, Bradley, Copper, Engram, Lawerance (punt returner).
Lawerance and Wright have been doing all the Punt returning with Engram back there in waalk thru’s.
This would exclude Webb, Toomer, Taurus Johnson and Wright from making the squad but its still early….
by B3I3R on Aug 11, 2009 5:15 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Toomer is on the roster
NO way he gets cut.
Wright might be taking lawrence’s spot on the roster, putting Quinten on the Practice Squad, along with Taurus.
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
I don't think they'd risk putting Lawerence on the PS
Lawerence has too much upside. Although, he has to be able to return kicks or punts to make the roster I guess. He would have to pass thru waivers (I think) before he can be put on the PS. Even then, someone can claim him at any point while on the PS.
I think Taurus is PS material
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
I agree... in theory
but that 53 man roster becomes crowded quick.
He doesn’t seem to be taking many reps at WR.
All we hear is that he’s been fumbling punts…
They may not have a choice…
I would think it’s a tough call to risk any of the draft picks being taken by another team (though, I didn’t realize they could at any time… I thought they just had to pass through waivers)
But, I could see Lawrence and Brown as possible PS candidates, if they don’t find a place to contribute
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
Haven't heard a word about Taurus Johnson in the Indy drill.
That’d be something I’d watch, based on my take on his highlights (always a dangerous thing to base anything on). I got the impression of a guy who would fight to get open and scrap for the ball in traffic on plays where a scrambling QB has extended the play (which most of his highlights seemed to be).
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I dont think
Wright makes the team either. Look at his history. Hes nearly 30. He’s an inch taller, yet nearly 10lbs smaller than Dante Hall, and hes NEVER played a down in the NFL. This year is considered his 1st year if you look him up. A 30 year old rookie will not make this team. You must remember, just because hes making plays doesnt mean he’ll make the team. I’m sure every player has made good plays. Theyre in the NFL. Of course theyre bound to have a good play here and there. Wright is a journeymen who was drafted, cut, sent to the Arena league and trying to make it. I SERIOUSLY doubt that will happen.
You have a true rookie, and a 30 year old rookie. I think they’ll choose the young guy. If you have 2 guys of equal talent, you take the young guy. Lawrence may not have his hands just yet, but he’ll figure it out. Give him time.
Mental maturity and mental toughness count for something.
And if Wright has speed and can go up for the ball, his age isn’t going to be a factor. Arena league isn’t where you look for great WRs to emerge, but his mentality of being on the outside looking in has him hungry.
This was a 2-14 team last year, and WR inconsistency was a big part of many losses. Don’t be surprised by surprise moves.
But your reasoning is pretty sound, Petey.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
No way
does Toomer not make this team, if anything, Toomer will be in Engram’s position and Engram will be out. Who knows though, it is still too early. All we can do is root for the guys we want to succeed and make it out of camp!
-Robbie
Think Engram will make it over Toomer???
Really? I also have to question Copper as well. I think Engram and Toomer will both make the team as well as Bradley and darling.
Punt returner…Who knows??? I’m kind of hoping Savage has improved enough to be consistent.
that'd be nice
I’m not sure where Savage fits in… I bet he’s cut.
Engram and Toomer are almost guaranteed a spot, IMO
Copper and Darling are probably on the bubble
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
Darling
is here to stay.. He’s going to be legit
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I think Savage is a cut also
Need to develop Lawerence as a return guy and hopefully turn him into a WR in time. Savage is #5 on the RB depth chart (LJ, Charles, Battle, Williams, then Kolby/Savage) so he’d be a return guy only. I think Haley would rather have a return guy be a WR to develop and since WR corps are more lacking than having 5 RBs on the roster
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
I agree
Savage has to show a LOT of return ability, and quick…. he’s very likely to get cut.
Hopefully Lawrence DOES step up and take the return jobs… it just doesn’t sound like he has done so yet.
Watch the preseason games… that’s where that job will be won or lost.
"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
Umm
Toomer didn’t do much in Monday’s practice and made 1 catch today…nothing worth a highlight. Engram is slated as the slot and will be there.
Copper is great on special teams and has actually been solid catching the ball the last two days which means he will make the team with that combo.
Savage doesn’t return punts or hasn’t the last two days meaning that option won’t pan out.
Toomer was brought in to help out others and if he is waived before the season we don’t have a financial obligation to him.
Savage got called out by Haley for not running at the end of practice today and his group had to run, the same with Bradley.
by B3I3R on Aug 11, 2009 5:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
maybe not today
but every other day he has been making plays. I don’t think anyone is truly “Slated” for anything. Just because he is working there 1 day doesn’t mean thats what will happen on opening day.
Toomer was brought in to help out others and if he is waived before the season we don’t have a financial obligation to him.
We don’t have much of a financial obligation to him in the first place. So that is a non-issue… especially when salary cap isn’t an issue for the team.
Toomer is a more consistant player than any of the other Wide Recievers on the team. He will make the team.
does anyone know
how much money under the minimum salary we are? I heard we still have to spend at least 12 mil but i can’t find a solid number anywhere.
Yeah what he said :)
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 11, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
What Haley wants in a receiver:
From Gretz on CBS:
Chiefs coach Todd Haley on what he wants in a wide receiver: “I look at wide receivers as more than just pass catchers. They have to be football players. They have to block. They have to catch the ball in traffic, make contested catches, make big plays in big situations. But they have to be football players first.”
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
So the Chiefs have no Haley WR's?
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 11, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
When asked if he is impressed with any recievers
He said Copper is a guy who gives you a hard days work every day. You know what you will get. Pointed out that Wright had really made strides. Said Toomer obviously knows what it takes to play in the league, and so does Engram. So yea, there are some Haley type guys.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Seems like...
everyone is kind of getting the way we always do early in camp. We aren’t sure who is playing well or poorly because they only play against eachother…and so on.
Saturday is more and more exciting.
by woodman212 on Aug 11, 2009 5:52 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I will proudly be sitting in section 332 like I have the last 3 years…watching preseason very closely this year. I’ve never kept up this good In the off season. In January I was really worried about the new GM and who it would be so I started searching online and stumbled across this site. Needless to say I am imformed and a day doesn’t go by that I don’t check in!
by Chieffan_Toby on Aug 11, 2009 6:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Glad to have you posting...
I wanted to make the trek up this saturday but my Game Partner backed out..
by woodman212 on Aug 11, 2009 7:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The preseason...
will tell us much more as far as who has the potential to make the final 53 man roster. While I don’t like hearing about how the offense is struggling, I think they will come together. If we can just put up 20 points a game, I am hopeful our defense can keep us in every game.
in all honesty
I have faith that Bowe will step up and this will only make him better. I am getting the feeling that Bowe and LJ are going to both have a monster year.
Few lil extra tidbits
From 610 Sports’ Red Alert 2009:
Larry Johnson looked solid today when the run game was worked on. LJ had no problem getting to the outside of the TE on many of the over tackle run plays.
Rookie DE Tyson Jackson batted down a Matt Cassel pass. It was the first flash that we have seen from Jackson this week.
Turk McBride jumped offside twice on hard counts during the 11 on 11 period.
I could get more sacks with my sack
the best ever
Seriously I been to every chiefs site on the web and this is the best. Even the posts are more intelligent here and u can really tell we all love the shit out of our chiefs no matter what!!!
by krayfish on Aug 11, 2009 6:52 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
the best ever
Seriously I been to every chiefs site on the web and this is the best. Even the posts are more intelligent here and u can really tell we all love the shit out of our chiefs no matter what!!!
by krayfish on Aug 11, 2009 7:00 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think UW-RF may want to recalculate this:
24 packages of 24 bottles of Gatorade were delivered today which should last the rest of camp (UWRF)
24 × 24 = 576
81 players in camp
576/81 = 7.1
So, each player only gets 7 gatorades for the rest of camp…which ends on the 21 August?
That means each player gets 0.71 gatorades per day for the rest of camp. It will still bear out at less than that average even during cutdowns, considering coaches and staff will probably have some too.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Future Mrs. DTR
I hope they already had 24 packages of 24 bottles of gatorade on hand,
so the players can at least have 1.4 bottles per day. :)
GATORADE ALERT!
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Future Mrs. DTR
by DThomasReigns on Aug 11, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
O-line coach Bill Muir to the line during a drill: "I am (freaking) tired of you peoples’ (crap)!" Muir said. (UWRF)
What do you mean, “you peoples?” :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Future Mrs. DTR
Awesome!
I was hoping someone would do that. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Future Mrs. DTR
by DThomasReigns on Aug 11, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I am soooo glad to hear this.
The O-line is BY FAR my biggest concern this year. Coach Muir needs to whip those guys into shape in a bad way and it needs to happen quick before Andre Johnson kills our starting QB.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 11, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
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