Updates on Chiefs Conditioning Test
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:02 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Training Camp
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PrintA few FanShots are starting to pop up with some of this information, and thanks for that, but I wanted to concentrate all the information on this morning's conditioning test into one spot.
One thing to note. Coach Todd Haley said Glenn Dorsey is not expected to miss any practice with the injury that incurred. Dorsey was wearing ice on his shin during lunch.
Brodie Croyle has been cleared to practice. He was rehabbing from the injury that ended his year last season. No word yet on the status of Kolby Smith and Ron Edwards, who were injured for much of the OTA sessions as well.
Click through to check out the places that are talking about the Chiefs conditioning test.
Haley would not talk at all about those players who failed the conditioning test. The coach made the session off-limits to media and fans. He did indicate that a number of players will not be passed on the team physical for a number of reasons, and thus will be unable to practice Saturday morning.
One of the main reasons the conditioning test was held was to ensure that players didn’t take a step back during their month-long break following OTAs. After today, it appears that they did not.
Haley said that he pays attention to what the guys are working on. "What my players are doing here is more important than what they're saying," Haley said. Haley said the running back's attitude has been no problem for him, and he can tell that Johnson really enjoys football. "Larry is a capable football player," Haley said.
"We don’t have anybody that’s real far off. That’s what I feel good about. None of these are long-term deals. We should have everybody going pretty soon," Coach Haley said.
"There will be a number of guys not practicing tomorrow. It won’t all be because of this part of the physical. This was part of our physical examination. We have a number of guys that won’t practice tomorrow, a handful I should say."
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as much as I love Dorsey,
I have to say that it’s obvious that he’s not going to make it as a professional football player. Sure, he’s got the talent but he’s nothing more than a 300 pound Brodie Croyle. He’s been nothing but injured since we drafted him. I’m really pulling for the guy but I honestly think he’s just going to fade away on the PUP.
Wasn't it injury concerns that caused him to drop to # 5 in the draft?
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
Never missed a game due to injury or the pros
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes injury caused him to slip
Fell from probable number one to number 5. What a disaster. He apparently had a stress fracture in one leg that caused him to not miss any games. And he is such a bust that he could only manage to start all 16 games of his career so far. I guess we better go ahead and cut him..he’s a flop.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I agree, way too early to call him injury prone or a bust, it's the 1st day of camp in his 2nd season!
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
Fell from probable number one to number 5.
I know people were talking about him at #1 because he was a dominant college player, but I think that was ridiculously unlikely…In the modern era, has a defensive tackle ever been the first overall pick?
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Russel Maryland
Dallas Cowboys 1991. When they picked Jackson this year Pioli was talking about how Jimmy Johnson said that taking Maryland was something that really raised a lot of peoples eyebrows. But even though he never put up big sack numbers he is what made the Dallas D able to run the scheme they wanted. Pioli likened that to what he wants from Jackson. Don’t look for big numbers but to be the guy who makes the whole thing really work.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Yea when was it again that he was injured?
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 31, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
There is a big diffence between Croyle and Dorsey.
Dorsey played in every game last year and has nerver been on IR. Croyle, not so much. As most players will tell you, if you are a starter or getting a lot of playing time, you play with an injury every week. I think so far Dorsey has proven his toughness.
Baffled.
It still amazes me how down on Dorsey everyone is, yet how “up” on Tank everyone is. I understand somewhat the position switch, but their numbers were practically the same on tackles, Dorsey got a sack (saying something for that team), and he was DOUBLED a good portion of the year.
He’s been on the field for us, and hasn’t missed a game…as a matter of fact, started all 16. The ONLY other rookie D-Lineman from last year to do so was Chris Long. He’s not a bust. Ryan Sims was a bust. Until Glenn can’t play, his full allegiance will be had from me.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
How is it in any way 'obvious'
I’d say it’s possible, but my bet is he’ll be around a long time in the NFL as, at the very least, a serviceable player.
I expect him to be a great player
I think he will be good this year, but year three is where experience really comes into play for NFL D-linemen. The post I did on Dorsey comparing him to All Pro players in the first couple of years looks pretty good. He may not be All-Pro but he is going to be a solid player for many years.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I agree
I have nothing but high hopes for Dorsey. I think most of us do. I was just talking about minimum potential, or ‘floor’. I don’t understand a statement like “he’s not going to make it as a professional player”. I would say his ceiling is as high or higher than anyone else in the league. His burst off the line is pretty much unmatched, he just needs some time to figure out the pro game like most DT’s do.
Dude...seriously?!
Can I ask what is “obvious” about him not making it as a Pro NFL player? A 300 pound Brodie Croyle? Brodie has played 2 seasons…and went on IR in 2 seasons. Dorsey has never missed a game due to injury.
Look at how ugly that cheap shot is on Dorsey. He was clearly engaged with a Linemen and another linemen chop blocked him right on the knee. Guess what? He didnt miss a game because of this hit. Sure, he missed some playing time, but never missed a game. Had that been Brodie, he woulda been out for the season and never drafted in the first place.
Something interesting in Brodie’s defense…before getting to the NFL, he had never had a football injury. All his injurys were freak accidents. BUT..haha..One of the Torn ACL’s he had…was from him running. Now if THATS not an eye opener, then i dont know what is. I know I wouldnt want a player who tore his ACL from running.
If you compare him and other top DT’s or DE’s in their rookie years, Dorsey outperformed many of them. He may have only had 1 sack, but he was in the Tampa 2 “bend but don’t break” defense. His job was not to rush the QB. His job was to take up space and stop the run. He had 46 tackles last season and thats pretty good for a Defensive Linemen..let alone a rookie.
The one thing I'll say is that it's hard to tell where all of those tackles came.
If he’s getting blown off the line of scrimmage and makes a tackle 6 yards down field, is that a good stat? I saw every game last year, but by the nature of watching an NFL broadcast, it’s difficult to tell where and how he made his tackles.
It’s kind of like the Succop argument (dead horse alert). Even though he was 20/30, the stats don’t tell the story. He was injured, and he had a freak game against Kentucky where he missed 4 FG’s and was 1/5. If you exclude that shitty game he’s 19/26 which is good for %73 which still isn’t great, but is way better than %66.
Football stats always have ‘buts’, that’s why GM’s aren’t mathematicians, they’re talent evaluators.
I still agree that Dorsey has a lot of potential and has a lot to prove, but you can’t look at his 46 tackles and say it was good or bad.
EXACTLY. Lots of Dorsey’s tackles were downfield because he was blown off the line, often by one guy. It was Tank that took the bulk of the double teams last year. That’s not to say Gorsey can’t improve, because he was clearly played wrongly by the prior incompetant, but he will HAVE to improve.
I can’t imagine he had more than 5 TFL’s.
And I’ll agree with the “being played incorrectly” statement, but Dorsey drew far more doubles than Tank did last year. That’s the thing, though…the defense we were playing led to being condusive to playmaking DE’s, so the intent was more to try to eat up that guard/center. We traded our playmaking DE away, and it showed immediately.
Everybody on that line got blown away. Shoot, so did most of the linebackers. He was played out of place on a struggling defense, so I can’t understand how one can judge last year fairly. I think he did well with what he had, and these next two years will show if that was case.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Tell me where all of
Warren Sapp or Albert Haynesworth or any other dominant defensive linemans every tackle came.
Why assume that Dorseys tackling was worse than those guys?
Some people had naive expectations that Dorsey was going to be in the backfield every play, and he simply wasn’t. But he’s going up against professional linemen now, not just future lawyers and accountants like he was in college.
Now I don’t know how Dorsey is going to be as a DE, I think he will be a round peg in a square hole in that regard, but had he been left at DT, I have no doubt he would continue to develop into a dominant player.
I'm not assuming Dorsey's tackles were any worse than those guys
I’m just trying to be objective in response to Petey by saying that tackles don’t necessarily tell the story when saying whether he had a good season or not. I’m not exposed to the kind of tape that would suggest either way.
All I expect of Dorsey is for him to do his job within the framework of the defense, and I really think that he will continue to develop and be effective on the DL over the next few years.
Also
I think he’ll fit in as a weakside DE in the 3-4 with minimal problems. I think he’ll actually benefit in a way, because his job will rarely cause him to take on double teams.
It’ll be interesting to see how he fares as a 5 tech on running plays where he’s being asked to push the LT inside, but I still think we’re going to see him a lot in the under tackle position, particularly on passing downs, where his job will be to penetrate the B gap
That is not what my arguement is
I know you cant go by where the tackles came from or if they were from good plays. I understand that. But you can still compare numbers because at this point, EVERYTHING is relevant. Even Ryan Sims put up 30+ tackles and 3 sacks in his 1st year as a full time starter (year 2). That is why I’m not saying “hey hes great look at the tackles he posted” Even if they were up field tackles..that just tells me he reacted and was quick enough on his feet to catch the guy before he was gone.
But at the same time, not every stat in the NFL comes from great plays. QB’s throw picks. Some of those picks are tipped by, and could have been caught by WR’s but they are picks either way.
My point is, you cant call Dorsey a “300lb Brodie Croyle” when he takes a hit like the one I posted, and still doesnt miss a game. My arguement is that you can’t call him a bust after he put up the numbers he did WHILE fighting through injuries. Now, I’m not saying the numbers are great, but if he was not being used correct, playing injured, and was able to record those stats, I cant wait to see what he can do when he IS being used correctly, when he IS healthy and if he cant put up numbers, play his position and make key plays, THEN I will say hes a bust. Or, of course, if he continues to pull the injury card.
Brodie just freak accidents?
I am positive he went down with a knee against Oklahoma.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Actually
I think I have Brodie mixed up with someone else. I remember reading an article about a QB who was saying he had never been injured in football, only accidents like what I said. Apparently I should have made sure it was Brodie that I was reading about.
Upon looking it up..he’s actually sustained alot of football injuries. (These are from wikipedia..I’m not going to pick out the individual sources from here so if you want to find them yourself, you can atleast get the source from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodie_Croyle)
“In the first game of his senior season against Glencoe High School, a hit by an opposing player tore Croyle’s anterior crucial ligament”
This next one is super interesting since he seems so frail..
“Despite starting all 11 games in 2003 as a sophomore, Croyle suffered a separated shoulder before half time of the fifth game. Croyle would start the next game against Georgia only to re-aggravate the injury, but still only sat out one game that season, and did not reveal to the public he had also suffered from two cracked ribs”
And finally..
“Croyle started the 2004 season hoping to help his team improve on their last record of 4–9. Croyle started three games, completing 44 of 66 passes for 534 yards with six touchdowns. But during the third game of the season against Western Carolina University, Croyle tore his anterior cruciate ligament in his other knee. Croyle was forced to sit out the rest of the season, and the team finished with a 6-6 record.”
He recovered and went on to start all games as a senior.
So, as much as I hate to say it, I stand corrected. Now I’m going to be scratching my head wondering who in the world I was reading about. I know it was last season right after Brodie got hurt so I THOUGHT it was an interview with him where he said that..I guess not.
Maybe, We should scratch our heads and say why did we think he was OUR QBOTF?
Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 31, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
ALL READY
It take time for a D-lineman Albert Haynesworth only one sack his rookie year and Kelvin Williams did not start a game. And W. Sapp had three, so it takes time. Don’t write him off already. He will go to another team and be another star get away.
by Chiefs fan in donkey land on Jul 31, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Another team?!?
Who said anything about another team? Or are you implying that if we traded him, he’d bloom in someone else’s system, and we’d lose out?
…confused…
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Didnt Ryan Sims have the same problem
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
Hell be ready to go by week one...No worries.
I just hope he can be healthy enough to participate.
I will
At the DT celebration at the City Market tonight. Just gotta make it to 5:00.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Party at a Market?
That doesnt sound like fun
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
Who knows?
I’ll be blacked out by the time I get there.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
hey....
don’t you get like 10 cents per view? Yea…lets party!
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Geez I wish
We get paid in beer gloves.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish people
Would stop bashing on a player in his 2nd season. What did everyone expect him to just come in a tear things up? Wow. Seriously, give it a lil time b4 before you judge him. I can only imagine what some peeps will say if Jackson doesn’t flourish in his rookie season.
by rdubz on Jul 31, 2009 2:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
It's just impatience
These fans are tired of losing. Defensive linemen usually take a little longer…the injuries are a slight concern because guys at that size usually don’t get over them as easily. But still…he’s never missed a game due to injury.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 31, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, everyone expects the worst these days after the past few seasons
Like the uproar generated when Barth was cut. Carl and Herm have turned a lot of fans into pessimists.
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
and I certainly hope
That you heard the sarcasm in my comments. I would hope everyone here already knows how I feel about Dorsey. If you don’t, read this.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I think it's funny when people say
Dorsey is a bust, Thigpen will only ever be a 2nd stranger, even though he did very well for coming off the bench as the 3rd string. lucky they have never ran a football team or they would have gotten rid of some of the best players in NFL history, just because they didn’t preform well their first or second year.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Jul 31, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Ala Donnie Edwards 1st time and Joe Horn, Jared Allen
Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 31, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
This is from his bio at LSU.com
Key component in LSU’s drive to the BCS national title despite playing second half of season with knee and tailbone injuries … Still, didn’t miss a start in helping LSU to SEC title and to a 12-2 overall mark … Despite being double teamed, and sometimes triple teamed, most of the season he has still racked up 69 tackles, a total that includes seven sacks and 12.5 tackles for loss
"You can live for Nothing or die for Something, it's your call" - John Rambo
That tells me this:
No matter if he’s hurt or healthy, he’s still one of the best players on the field.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Not only that
but he was risking furthur injury and potentially blowing his NFL career for his team. Shows loyalty and a desire to win.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Jul 31, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
man
this guy must be pretty tough. He was hurt and still put up numbers. Gotta like that.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Jul 31, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
At least he's not as fat and out of shape as Jamarcus Russel.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 31, 2009 2:37 PM CDT reply actions
I Don't Get it Either?!?
Dorsey had great stats for a first year DT. He plays through pain and injury. Almost always requires a double team. He never misses a game?
What the HECK is the problem?!?
Thats the point
There is no problem with Dorsey.
by rdubz on Jul 31, 2009 3:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not so worried about Brokie and Dorsey...
<img src=“”http://s932.photobucket.com/albums/ad161/kyles310/?action=view¤t=jruss.jpg" target="_blank">
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“Look Coach! I got both feet off the ground, at the same time!!
Case closed
I think its unanimous Dorsey should be cut or traded, or both
by KansasCityShuffle on Jul 31, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions
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