Joe Thiesman says the Chiefs could win 10 games and make the playoffs.
Twitter / 610 Sports Radio- KC: Joe Thiesman says the Chie ...
Theismann also talked about Matt Cassel here.
4 months ago
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That Joe Theisman is a smart fella.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 3, 2009 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He sure is a fart smella.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Jul 3, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ba dum
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 3, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so far fetched in my opinion....
….. this team is going to be hungry and out to prove themselves. In a weak division I wouldn’t be surprised.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Jul 3, 2009 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't surprise me...
But then again 4-12 would not be a shocker it is truly to early to tell with this team. training camp reports and pre-season will tell a large part of the story before the season. Which goes without saying. So why did I? :)
by fixitquick79 on Jul 3, 2009 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
With all the changes, I am pretty skeptical
I love my Chiefs, but:
- you have a GM that has never really been in that type of job for a losing team.
- you have a rookie head coach that is completely unproven and has a reputation for rubbing his players the wrong way.
- you have a QB that beginning last year had not started a game since High School, and while he played pretty well last year taking over for Brady, he DID take over a team that went 16-0 the previous year.
- traded off their best receiver for the last decade and brought in an even older WR in Engram.
- Are switching to the 3-4 defense even though the players we have on the team are CLEARLY more suited for the 4-3.
- Didn’t do a DAMN thing to improve the pass rush situation. Even by switching to the 3-4, they didnt bring in a single player to improve the pass rush. In fact their only decent pass rusher (who played badly last year) in Hali is going to be playing out of position.
I would classify most of the Chiefs moves as interesting, but there are a whole aweful lot of IFs.
IF Pioli was at least partially responsible for the New England success of the last decade…
IFTodd Hailey is competent and not just emotional…
IF Matt Cassel is the next Tom Brady and not the next Derrick Anderson…
IF there was some other reason for Clancy Pendergast to be fired from the Cardinals other than that he is a crappy D.C…
Thats a lot of IFs.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 3, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
But, I would be an eternal optimist, If, I could get over my pessimism :)
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 3, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but it is not Hermball anymore.
No more bend , but do not break defense, try to run up the score, who cares if someone feelings get hurt offense, things could change quickly. My biggest concern is Sackintosh getting a qb killed. We have a whole new supporting cast behind Haley, along with all the ifs, there are positives that go with that.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Jul 3, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does this impression of Haley rubbing players the wrong way come from?
Because of one incident on the sideline with a player that said he’d love to play for Haley again or because of Brian Waters because he got his feelings hurt because a guy called a spade a spade? Fact is of the 130+ players that have come into contact with him in the last 2 years only one has an actual issue with him and he really should just man up and move on.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The optimistic look to that list....
- You have a GM that helped build and maintain one of the best football teams in the history of the league. Even if you want to be a pessimist and say “It was Belichek” just being in cooperation with him he had to have learned something. Debatably its harder to build a team and get to the top and stay at the top season after season then it is to build a team that really can’t get any worse.
- You have a rookie head coach who is extremely passionate about the game, is an incredibly hardnosed/hardworking person and that comes from one of the best coaching trees in the league. If even have of this guys personality and work ethic can rub off on the players look out. The rookie head coach is also surrounded by other coaches who are very good and been head coaches and coordinators around the league for a long time.
- You have a Qb who at the beginning of last year had not started a game since high school, but despite that in the course of a couple workouts alone showed enough promise to be drafted not a FA signing. Then he went on to be tutored for the last few years by debatably the best QB to play the game in the last decade. He came on last season in a pressured filled situation where he still led the team to an 11-5 record.
- They traded their best receiver for the last decade but in all reality he is only one player and one player does no make a team. How many playoff wins do the Chiefs have with or because of Tony? This team boasts a new head coach that is one of the most creative offensive minds in the league and a offensive coordinator that took the leagues worst offense and made a third string QB from a second rate school look like a star and turned the offense around midseason(without the entire offseason to prepare).
- They are switching to a 3-4 defense and other then a couple DE transitioning out to OLB all the players can be just as suited for 3-4. The only other debateable player is our first round pick from last year that may be suited more for 4-3 but is athletic enough to be a difference maker in any D when used the right way. Check the last 5-6 years…doesnt look like the 4-3 was working for us very well either.
- They havent brought in a pass rusher but again from a 3-4 perspective thats debatable. The scheme itself will cause more pressure alone. This is an area that wont be great this year but not sure it can be any worse then last year either.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't want to be a Negative Nelly but...
- You have a GM that helped build and maintain one of the best football teams in the history of the league. Even if you want to be a pessimist and say "It was Belichek" just being in cooperation with him he had to have learned something. Debatably its harder to build a team and get to the top and stay at the top season after season then it is to build a team that really can’t get any worse.
Hopefully you’re right. But one of those great questions about the Patriots, “Was it Bellichick or Brady” seems to have been answered pretty well last year when Bellichick won 11 games with a guy who hadn’t played any significant time since High School. That leans heavily on the “Its Bellichick” side.
- You have a rookie head coach who is extremely passionate about the game, is an incredibly hardnosed/hardworking person and that comes from one of the best coaching trees in the league. If even have of this guys personality and work ethic can rub off on the players look out. The rookie head coach is also surrounded by other coaches who are very good and been head coaches and coordinators around the league for a long time.
Herm Edwards had a good work ethic. Herm Edwards was not a succesful NFL coach. Working hard does not always = winning. It takes charisma and intelligence as well. We don’t know if Hailey has either. Yeah the Arizona offense looked pretty good with him as a coordinator. But Ken Wisenhunt, the head coach, was a very succesful offensive coordinator for the Steelers before taking the Cardinals job. So just like with Vermeil and Al Saunders, was it more Vermeil or more Saunders? Judging by whats happened since they parted, you have to say it was more Vermeil.
With Pioli, hopefully he had a lot to do with the Patriots offseason success. But then again, how will getting those type of guys and not having a coaching genius like Bellichick to teach and mould them work out? We don’t know yet. And what if Pioli goes about building the roster like he did for a 3 time Super Bowl winner with one of the great coaches in NFL history when, in fact, he doesn’t have any of that? Will we see success or long term failure because he’s out of his element? Questions we don’t have the answers to.
- They are switching to a 3-4 defense and other then a couple DE transitioning out to OLB all the players can be just as suited for 3-4. The only other debateable player is our first round pick from last year that may be suited more for 4-3 but is athletic enough to be a difference maker in any D when used the right way. Check the last 5-6 years…doesnt look like the 4-3 was working for us very well either.
COMPLETELY disagree with you on this point.
Just because they take a player like Derrick Johnson and stick him at a LB position in the 3-4 does NOT mean he will be just as if not more succesful there. In fact, EVERY ONE of our LBs from last year are completely wrong for the 3-4. EVERY ONE of our Defensive Linemen that we are keeping from last year are completely wrong for the 3-4. Hell, nearly every player on the defensive side of the ball from last year is going to be a duck out of water for the 3-4.
Name me some players that are returning from last year that will be better at their position in the 3-4 from the 4-3. I can’t think of a single one.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 3, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Herm Edwards work ethic
maybe he had a good one but it has been shown he didn’t teach it to the players. and as far as the 3-4 goes I am not enough of a guru to name names but I do know there are lot of players that started out in a 4-3 and turned out to be stars in a 3-4. Pioli look at the awards he has won do you think they just give those to just anyone? As for Haley, Ken Wisenhunt called the plays for part of 2007 until Haley proved he was good enough to take over and it was his offense ever since. There are way more positives going into 2009 than in the last two years so enjoy it and stop being a Negative Nelly. j/k I couldn’t resist
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Jul 3, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Thats why all our players were out of shape and we had to spend three months running?
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ is right on the D
But we sucked hard last year so ANY improvement however untested is needed.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 3, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Name me some players that are returning from last year that will be better at their position in the 3-4 from the 4-3. I can’t think of a single one."
There’s only three players from last year even projected as starters in this D. Dorsey, who will have a pretty good year, yes he’s technically a better 4-3 player but they’ll find ways to make him successful or they wouldve traded him. Tank, who is and always has been a 3-4 player. He was a 3-4 player in college, was scouted as a NT and went to the combine listed as a NT. And Hali who may have the most issues transitioning to handle coverage but as far as pass rushing from olb spot its exactly what he did in college,
Point is too just because we’re a 3-4 defense it doesnt mean thats what we always run. Brian Billick answered a question last month concerning this and said that teams only stay in their base defense about 30% of the time. With multiple front sets, 4-3 under sets(that have been discussed at length here), etc theres no reason to believe that we won’t improve on defense. If you think we can finish worse then 29th like this then I guess youre entitled to your opinion.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree
First I don’t agree that theres only three players from last year projected as starters. Flowers, Carr, Page, Pollard, Dorsey, DJ, Hali, Tank/Edwards. So thats at least 8 of 11 players. Not sure where you’re getting only three.
Tank might be OK as a NT, though he needs to put on a lot of wait. He’s way too small to be a NT right now.
Hali is a 4-3 hand on the ground DE. He is not quick or agile enough to play OLB in the 3-4 in my opinion.
Can we finish worse than 29th? Sure. We can finish 30th, 31st and 32nd.
I will not be happy if we make a whole bunch of changes, playing highly drafted players out of position and end up with the 18th or 20th ranked defense over the next couple years. Thats not the goal.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its three
Theres only three players you could argue arent 3-4 players. DJ and all the Db’s don’t count. DJs responsibilities will be simillar to before and he only has one of the games best beside him to help it. To say the DBs arent 3-4 players makes no sense whatsoever. Tank weighed in pre-combine at 337 so yes he can put on the weight and yes he was a 3-4 player before. that only leaves you with Hali and Dorsey and the third(and its a stretch) is DJ.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tank and all the DBs*
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? You don't think the DBs will be affected at all?
The knock on Flowers coming out of college was that he is undersized and not fast enough to play a lot of man to man coverage, but would be perfect in a zone defense like the Cover 2, which is why he fell the the Chiefs in the 2nd round.
3-4 defenses, including those run by Parcells, typically run a lot of man to man secondary coverages so they can blitze the LBs. So as good a young CB as Flowers is, we may be asking him to cover guys on a down to down basis that he has a physical disadvantage to rather than setting him up for success by the scheme we’re running.
The same goes for Pollard and Page. They are big, oversized safeties that are not as fast as typical man to man defense Safeties because the Cover 2 likes to move one of those guys down in the box to stop the run and since the CBs in the Cover 2 play back, you don’t lack as much in coverage. So again, their duties WILL change on the change to the 3-4. They aren’t on an island where what the front 7 do doesn’t affect them. Another case where they are trying to fit the square pegs of our players into the round holes of the defenses they want to run.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 4, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Questions we don’t have the answers to."
So my assessment as an optimist is as valid as the pessimistic view. Do I believe in everything I wrote 100%? Not necesarily its just a different way to look at it because I’m just tired of hearing all the downsides or skepticism. Its getting redundant.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree we have so many good things going for us right now
are there some questions yes but i would rather hope for the best than dread the worst. the thing DJ said about Haley, I am not worried about him at all because he has Pioli right there beside him. Pioli wont let him get out of control. For 20 years we had where a good coach made our Gm look good and now we have a Gm that can make the coach look good.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Jul 3, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me I just dont see how it can turn out worse then last year. It's pretty near impossible.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The goal is not that it just isn't worse than last year
Don’t trap yourself into that thinking.
The goal is to win championships, not to be marginally bettter.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm done you're just insisting on being as contrary as you can be.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 3, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
You seem to be happy if the Chiefs are just “better than last year” under the new regime. Thats not the goal.
We don’t know anything about the NEW Chiefs. They could turn out worse than before, if thats possible. They’re my team and I want them to be succesful. But people are getting their hopes set way too high when there are so many unknowns.
Pioli and Hailey may turn out to be the best at what they do, but even Parcells had 4 win seasons. It all comes down to having real talent on the team, putting that talent in the best situation to succeed, and then actually getting them there.
Thats a lot of Ifs.
by ChiefDJ on Jul 4, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you keep saying how the players don't fit in a 3-4
the way they played last year it looked like they didn’t fit in a 4-3 either. Haley has said we won’t just be a 3-4 defense.We will see a lot of different things from the defense this year.
I don’t think anyone thinks we can contend for the SB this year but with the way the AFC West is winning the division is possible. Herm had this team so messed up and used to loosing it will take more than this year to get it where they want it to be.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Jul 4, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Chiefs can win the Division...
I would not be surprised if they do get further. The only way they will win the west is if they get very hot midway through the season. If they can get some luck early in the year and continue to improve, you never know.
I don’t think anyone expected the 9-7 Cardinals to get all the way to the dance last year and they came close to winning the whole deal. I don’t think anyone doubts they should have been there from the way they performed in the playoffs and in the SB.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 4, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, I think the transition for the defensive backfield isn’t really going to be a big deal in terms of the tangible differences between a 34 and 43. In fact, while I’m no Pollard fan, I think he’s a little better suited to playing SS in a 34, as he’s better as a hitter, blitzer, and run-supporter than back in coverage.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 4, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, all of them (the players) will be better because
of better coaching and a better defensive scheme.
by G.L. on Jul 6, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very fair assessment of the negatives. I think there are many positives in KC right now, but what vexes me about the expectations among many fellow Chiefs fans is how rarely most acknowledge these negatives.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 4, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me we have had too many negatives during the Herm years
we finally have some good things going on. There is alot of work still to be done and everything can’t be fixed this year, Herm had it too messed up. This is Pioli/Haley first year they are off to a good start and i am happy with that.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Jul 4, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 agree
Theres good things going on finally and while there are some negatives, nothing can be totally fixed in one offseason. As far as this season goes, yes, any improvement is something promising. Does that mean we’re settling for “moderate improvement”? No, but we need to start somewhere and nothing like this will be turned around overnight.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 4, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of people thought Vermeil meant that good things were going on, and then later the same for Edwards. Bottom line, we’ve seen zero results yet, so it’s hard to say whether things are going better or worse. I for one despise Peterson with the fires of a thousand suns, so improving on him could’ve been done by hiring a cold plate of spaghetti to be GM. But I do like Pioli a lot, and I’m hoping he’s not as dumb as he’s looked so far with the Jackson/Magee picks and trading a second for one guaranteed year with Cassel.
by burntorangehorn on Jul 5, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A thought
Since Peterson is gone, Who is KCTV5 going to have on the preseason broadcasts
this year?
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 3, 2009 5:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Kevin Harlan doing them?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Jul 3, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peterson brought in Vermeil some years back and Harlan recently.
I assumed that the Chiefs Mgmt chose and ran the production for the pre-season games.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 3, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JC Pierson too
I like him as broadcaster. Warren Moon like him as Chiefs DB to like 527 yds.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 3, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely true
to the Redskins he certainly is. I’ve heard him say he expects the Redskins to be among the best in the NFC this year.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
by jobe on Jul 4, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to like Joe Thiesman...
but then he says stuff like that.
As much as i would like for that too happen, but then I guess anyone could theoretically win 10 games, thats the beauty of the NFL
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 3, 2009 8:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How is Joe a homer?
He never played for the Chiefs. Joe breaks down a lot of film, I really respect his opinion. Those that have posted above really should consider joining the Raiders Nation, because there is no need for that kind of negativity here. You are entitled to your opinion, but Cassel is 10-5 as a starter, in the division, who is better? You can only make a case for Rivers, and SD has only gotten worse every year since letting Marty go…
Specifically, Piolli brought in the talent for the NE SuperBowl teams. Haley is relying on Chan Galey for Offense, remember, creater of the slash position for Cordell Stewart? Haley took a terrible team to the SuperBowl last year. Who cares about Tight Ends? Tony G was the best TE in history, and that won us how many playoff games? Switching to a 3-4, apparently, you haven’t been looking at Bob Gretz’s website. Haley is not switching to a 3-4, and does not want to be pigeon toed to a specific defense.
The only real question mark on the D is Tamba Hali, can he adjust to playing LB, part time? The DL is set with Jackson, McBride, Dorsey. LB – Vrabel, Thomas, DJ, can it get any better? OK, Ray Lewis excluded. Secondary, we are set. Mike Brown only makes us stronger!
Sure, there is a margin of error, it’s called parity. This year, it’s between 6-10 and 13-3. Of course, I think that every year, LOL. Since 10-6 should qualify for the playoffs, I’m totally stoked about this year!
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
by cpa913 on Jul 3, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy on telling people they
should join the fader nation, every body is entitled to their opinion.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Jul 3, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my....
I might have to disagree with Joe….
On one hand it doesnt seem we have improved that greatly over last years team in many ways and our coach and QB are unproven…
On the other hand, we lost way too many games last year by 7 points or less…and our moron former coach lost many of those from the sidelines…The old saying is “You are what your record says you are” but I would say when Herm left that went out the window. He was not a scapegoat, he was legitimately a horrible coach…
by woodman212 on Jul 4, 2009 3:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if that was confusing....
My main point ended up being optimistic after I clearly stated I disagreed with Joe…but nonetheless…
by woodman212 on Jul 4, 2009 3:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we all are chasing our tails here to some extent.
We won’t be as good as the optimists want.
We won’t be as bad as the pessimists think.
But, Everyone I think will agree that we will be better than 2008 :)
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 4, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what would you call me?
Pessimist or realist? I call 6-10 with a rough year on D.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Jul 5, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is, when a team
stages a dramatic turn around, it is rarely accompanied by a huge influx of players from other teams or the draft. Usually there is a talented core of players who are joined by a key veteran acquisition or two, and some new rookies who are role players acquired through the draft. The turn around happens when the core of players on the team figure out what the opposition is doing to them and adjust their play accordingly. Then, the new players fill slots, and the team is off to the races. Sound familiar?
by G.L. on Jul 6, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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