Pioli knows Kickers

by stagdsp on Jul 29, 2009 12:57 PM CDT

Most of us were surprised by the move to cut Connor Barth in favor of Ryan Succop.

I, like most of you, expected them to battle it out in Training Camp to see who was the best man for the job.

UCrawford insists that FG percentage in college and the pros is the ONLY way to evaluate the two kickers.

Ravenhawk says that "you can fix accuracy, you can’t fix a whimp."

Chiefs_KC points out that Barth's numbers last year were not as favorable if you break them down by distance.. he didn't really attempt or make much of anything over 39 yds.

The point Chiefs_KC made that intrigued me, however was "Gostkowski’s kick avg was 64 yds and FG% led the league at 90% and was a Pioli draft pick. "

Let's look at Gostowski's numbers from college, and see how they compare to Succop... and see if Pioli knows how to pick a kicker. (given the fact that Gostowski is a Pro Bowler now... you know what I'm thinking)

*********

College Career: Made 70-of-92 field goals during his career, good for a 76.1 percent accuracy rate ... ... Over his final two seasons, made 85.7 percent of his field goal attempts (42-of-49) ...

Senior Year: Made 22 of his 25 field goal tries (88.0 percent) and all 35 extra point attempts

Junior Year: Selected first-team All-Conference USA ... Set a school single-season record with 108 points scored, connecting on 20-of-24 field goals (83.3 percent) and 48-of-49 extra point attempts ...

Sophomore Year: In his second season as Memphis' kicker, scored 101 points on 19-of-29 field goals (65.5 percent) and all 44 extra point attempts ...

Freshman Year: Lettered while appearing in all 12 games ... Made 9-of-14 field goal attempts (64.3 percent), including a 50-yarder in the season opener vs. Murray State ... Also made 32-of-37 PATs and finished with 59 points scored.

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32013

****************************************

Succop's stats

2006	16	20	80.0	37	39	85
2007	13	17	76.5	37	37	76
2008	20	30	66.7	30	30	90

http://espndb.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=173684

***********************

MY CONCLUSION:

Succop had a down year in 2008, due to injury.

Had he been healthy, he would have been just as accurate, if not more accurate than Steven Gostowski.

Gostowski has gone on to have a great first 3 years of his pro career, and is now among the best in the NFL.

Entering the 2009 season, and including the playoffs, Gostkowski has hit 77-of-90 career field goal attempts, and his 85.6 percent accuracy rate is the highest in Patriots history.

In 2008, Gostkowski was named to his first career Pro Bowl and also earned a spot on the Associated Press All- Pro First Team.

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32013

Gostkowski replaced a legend in Adam Vinatieri

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-190857111.html

FOXBORO - Stephen Gostkowski replaced a New England legend three years ago, but he never let the pressure of taking over for Adam Vinatieri get to him.

He just performed.

"When fans or somebody comes up to me and says, `We haven't missed that guy,' it's nice to hear," Gostkowski said yesterday. "I can't duplicate what that guy did, but to hear you're doing a good job like he did, that's pretty cool."

*************************************

While there's no guarantee that Succop will be the next Gostowski... the success of Gostowski should bring some confidence in the ability of Pioli to select a kicker.

there has been a good debate about the Barth for Succop move here http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/7/28/966900/chiefs-choose-k-succop-connor and http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/7/28/967039/release-came-at-a-bad-time-for

Some of the best points made, in my opinion are:

*********************************************************

Take a guess who’s stats these are
80% in college

These are the stats of his first 5 years in the pros.
76.9%
72.2%
79.2%
80.0%
69.7%

If you answered Nick Lowery then you get a gumball. If you stick with him you have:

    * most field goals all-time (384)
    * most accurate all-time (from 1984-1997 Lowery held the all-time accuracy mark for 10 of those 12 years)
    * most 50 yard field goals
    * most games with 2 or more 50 yarders
    * Lowery also held the record for best PAT % since the goal posts were moved back 10 yards and PAT’s became 20 yarders, not 10 yarders.
    * Lowery received the NFL Players Association’s most prestigious humanitarian award, the Byron Whizzer White Award, in 1993.
    * Lowery kicked more than 15 game-winners during his career, including in 2 playoff games vs. the Raiders in 1992 and Steelers in 1994, and also kicked the game-winning points in all 3 Pro Bowls in 1982, 1991 and 1993.
    * 2007 NFL Hall of Fame nominee

So you can fix accuracy, you can’t fix a whimp.

by ravenhawk on Jul 29, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

*****************************************************

Just for UC....

Barths Collegiate percentage(since he loves useless stats): 76%
Succops percentage: 73%(including injury season where he didnt practice) 78% removing injured season.

78 > 73

Ryan Succop- 2 time runner up for the Lou Groza Award for Best Collegiate Place Kicker.
Connor Barth- No significant collegiate awards or nominations.

Ryan Succop- Made all but one FG in offseason
Connor Barth- Missed frequent attempts in offseason

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 28, 2009 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

*******************************************************

Here is what Gretz

reported during OTA’s and Mini Camp

OTA Update 6/1
June 1, 2009
– The kickers were very active on field goals throughout the practice and while we couldn’t chart every kick, rookie Ryan Succop looked like he was having a good day. He was six-for-six from 43 yards away with a nice cross breeze coming from his right to left. He then hit a 51-yarder. Connor Barth hit an upright from close in on one of his FG attempts and went three of four from 43 yards, missing wide right.

Mini-Camp Update 6/5 P.M.
June 5, 2009
– The Chiefs worked on field goals during their special teams work. Second-year man Connor Barth hit five of six, while rookie Ryan Succop was seven for seven. The kicks were between 28 and 36 yards.

Mini-Camp Update 6/6 P.M.
June 6, 2009
– Kickers Connor Barth and Ryan Succop were both four-for-four on FGs from 32, 39, 43 and 45 yards. That was a pretty good effort given that there was a strong wind out of the southeast blowing into the practice fields. It was at the kickers back, but blowing from left to right.

by markc on Jul 28, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs

**********************************************

Barth's numbers last year were terrible

Barth’s FG % last year was 82% (10/12) but look at where they came from

6/6 20-29 yds (100 %)
3/4 30-39 yds (75 %)
1/1 40-49 yds (100 %)
0/1 50+ yds (0 %)

So… 4/6 (66%) on FGs over 29 yds and not many attempts over 40 yds so that tells me that Herm wasn’t very confident in his ability to make anything over 40 yds and “give up” field position to the other team. Then look at Barth’s kick-off numbers… he was ranked 46th in the league, 58.6 yds. No one with over 3 kickoffs had a worse average, which means they were emergency kicks due to losing the primary kicker, or the HC realized they needed to bring in a kick-off specialist. John Carney’s average was 60.4 yds! Gostkowski’s kick avg was 64 yds and FG% led the league at 90% and was a Pioli draft pick. Succop’s kicks will help special teams and will be more accurate on FGs outside of 30 yds than Barth.

As for kicker competition in training camp, I think Succop is more mentally tough than Medlock was. I had a draft magazine the year Medlock was drafted and both Folk and Crosby were ranked ahead of Medlock. The magazine even said that Medlock had character concerns so I don’t kow how Carl and Herm coudn’t have seen that.

by Chiefs_KC on Jul 29, 2009 1:33 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs

*********************************************

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Tweet Comment 68 comments | 13 recs |

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Comments

Wow! You put a lot of time into that...Good job!

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 29, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions

thanks

but, it’s mostly just a compilation of other people’s work…

I guess that’s what most of the media does, though!

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Still get a rec

Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...

by cpa913 on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Can't fix a wimp

but you can definitely bitch slap an uppity ball boy though.

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jul 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs

And a rec

for Nick the Kick

Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...

by cpa913 on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions

"Bitch slap an uppity ball boy"

Classic.

by KCinSD on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Very nice post...

+1 and Rec’d.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 29, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions

Comprehensive posts like this make AP great!

great read and great job!

by worc on Jul 29, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions

Great job and great read, too. +1

by jcox31mc on Jul 29, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions

Good work

To sum up all the comments that were made last night. I still am blown away by how worked up everyone got. Kickers are easy to pick up if you didn’t make the right choice. I don’t think Pioli is the kind of guy to stick with something that isn’t working just because it was “his guy.”

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Jul 29, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions

I think Pioli is just looking to put his mark on things

and using the very last pick in the draft to select a ‘starter’ I think really says something. On paper Herm’s draft picks were sexy picks but they never panned out on the field. I suspect Pioli’s M.O. will be the exact opposite where they’ll be a bunch of nobody’s (at time of their selection) but will pan out on the field and end up making names for themselves.

by KansasCityShuffle on Jul 29, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

True Rec

Not the Anti-Herm, But Pioli is a true Pro

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions

The Jackson pick (with Magee as insurance)

had almost no downside. People shook their heads, but at the same time all agreed that he was THEE most blue-collar, sure-fire starting 3-4 DE for miles (and they followed up the pick with the ultimate team, versatile d-line leader-type in Magee, who’s alREADY shown as well or better than Jackson in OTAs). Nothin’ flashy, but they made the front 7 bigger and better.

by hmills110 on Jul 31, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions

+1

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Jul 31, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions

+1

I’ll stick with the fact that this allows for an extra roster spot of greater need where he can evaluate more players say on the defensive/offensive lines or at olb. If over the course of camp or preseason, once he cuts other players, Succop needs competition there will be more room at that point and 10+ Connor Barths sitting around begging for an opportunity.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 29, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't get why you're so dismissive of this

when a kicker has a higher probability of leading the team in scoring than pretty much any other player on the roster. It was a stupid move.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Not sure if its so much dismissive...

as it is “lets see how this plays out”.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 29, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not a stupid move

Barth has shown what he’s capable of. Let Succop have training camp and preseason with a professional special teams coach. I am sure if there are doubts about this move or Succop as a starter, it will be resolved before week one NOT in the middle of the season.

My 2 cents:
The most important kicks of Adam Vinatieri’s career have been over 40 yards. As of right now I would say between Succop & Barth if it came down to a 50yd FG in or for the playoffs, I would feel better about Succop getting it done.

by Spiderwomn69 on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions

It is a stupid move

It’s repeating recent history for one. We’ve gone to camp with “our guy” before and it was a disaster. Competition is good, especially at a position that puts significant points on the board for the team.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually if we had stuck with medlock...

We might not have been in too bad of shape. He’s playing pretty well in the CFL right now and actually is a PK and punter.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually

Peterson & Herm went to camp with “their guy” and I think it’s accurate to say Pioli has a better eye for talent than both of them. How is it repeating history when this is Pioli and Haley’s first year? We’ve lost nothing by cutting him now, other than keeping pressure on Succop and in case he missed it, Pioli and Haley will let his kicking a** go if he doesn’t perform.

by Spiderwomn69 on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions

It's repeating history

by going into camp with their guy and not using a good old fashioned competition to determine who the best man is. You just said it yourself, they’ll let him go if he doesn’t get the job done. That’s what I mean by repeating history. We’ve been down this road before. Pressure on an unproven rookie is exactly what concerns me. He cracks, they axe him and we change horses mid-stream. This is a high scoring position that has the potential to lead the entire team. Don’t you think we should maximize our chances of getting it right? Why take the risk? It’s not a wise move IMO. In fact, I think it’s a very bad move. We’re not likely to be the team that goes out and takes the league by storm as it is, so what the hell, let’s just gamble with “our guy” the kicker.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Why do you think Pioli/Haley didn't just go find someone

from the Kicker pool already if that is what they want to do.
Zendahas or one of the proven NFL kicking families.

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think they want to sacrifice the roster spot

and I also don’t think either of them have been sufficiently burned by a bad kicker yet. I just pray their luck doesn’t sour on this kid.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Not for competition, just a proven NFL talent rather than draft Choice?

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions

I dunno

I don’t know who was even available.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions

I guess

I just don’t see this as Pioli & Haley choosing their guy. I see it as giving the rookie time with the coaches to see how he developes. My assumption is that what they saw out of Barth so far looked a lot like what was on film last year. I’m also under the impression that we will not be switching mid-season, I think Succop has a shot up to maybe through preseason, if he isn’t improving I think that’s when his fate will be decided. At that time I am sure Conner Barth or another kicker will be more than happy to take the job. I’m also pretty sure Succop knows this.

by Spiderwomn69 on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions

I hope he knows it

It’s just a lot of eggs in one basket. No plan-B? Barth could have done better, but I’m not getting where Succop is such the better option. His college stats certainly weren’t worthy of all this. It’s an awfully big risk for a team that really has no business taking this kind of risk.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 29, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm sure Pioli

has a Plan B, we just dont’ get to know about it.

by Spiderwomn69 on Jul 29, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Changing kicker in midstream is not

as big of a deal as changing any other position in midstream. A kicker doesn’t have to learn an offensive or defensive playbook. He doesn’t have to adjust his style to mesh with his new team. He basically just kicks the ball, which he should be able to do for any team and in any city. Sure, he will have to adjust to any environmental conditions that come along with the new stadium (KC wind), but that should be no problem for a professional kicker to overcome. Especially since they play half of their games on the road. Bottom line: If Succop sucks, bring Barth back in or find another guy

Predictions for 2009
1) Chiefs will go 6-10, and still be in the hunt for the AFC West title come December.
2)Bobby Engram approaches 1000 yards receiving
3)Tyler Thigpen is used in ways that the NFL has never thought of/seen before

by Fourstrike89 on Jul 30, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions

I think kicker was one position they COULD evaluate this past spring.

I hate to say it or think about it, but players are going to get hurt and players are going to show they can’t cut it. If you’re really on to somethin’, Buck’O, we might see Barth and/or some OTHER kicker come into Chiefs camp if things change. I kind of doubt anybody else is going to immediately snap him up. Barring injury to a kicker somewhere in some training camp, I think adding another kicker when you’re already sweatin’ gettin’ down to 80 is low probability.

I see Lokey as a guy they’re going to give a hard look at, to see if he can be made useful, but he’ll have a tough time breakin’ into the lineup, just by the numbers. There are a BUNCH of guys like that, who are marginal, for whatever reason, so that if kicker becomes an issue. And really, you can judge a kicker’s results objectively, more than almost any other position. The kicker’s in competition with the sidelines and the uprights.

by hmills110 on Jul 31, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Carl Peterson and Herm's excuse for drafting a bad kicker = lack of competition at K in training camp

Everyone’s gun-shy after the failed Medlock experiment. The fact is, the Chiefs were the first team to draft a kicker in 2007 and took Medlock even though he was ranked behind Crosby and Folk. Medlock had a DUI and was flagged in atleast one draft magazine as having questionable character (maturity, mental toughness, etc). CP drafted him because he was from UCLA and he’d have someone to sing his alma matter songs with. Medlock was missing FG’s in training camp and was 50% (2/4) after the first two pre-season games. CP could have brought in a kicker to "compete "at that point, but would he have cut his draft pick before the season started? Probably not. After Medlock missed a 30 yd FG in reg. season game 1 they finally brought in another kicker and Medlock went to the practice squad…. More “competition” but Medlock didn’t improve, he got cut. Went to the Rams (more competition) he didn’t improve and was out of the league. He couldn’t handle it mentally or had bad practice habits or something. Bottom line, competition didn’t make him any better. Herm’s quote that “We should of had another kicker in camp to push Medlock” was a cop-out for making a huge mistake drafting Medlock in the first place, especially since Crosby and Folk were still on the board. CP and Herm were just plain awful at evaluating kickers.

A kicker is constantly competing against himself because if he doesn’t get the job done, there’s 22 kickers off the street that the Cheifs can bring in to replace him. Use the roster spot in training camp to find evaluate players on defence, offence, or special teams

by Chiefs_KC on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

Agreed

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions

+1 Should've read yours before I spouted off. Sorry so redundant!

by hmills110 on Jul 31, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Department of Redundancy Department

I could get more sacks with my sack

by ArrowSpread on Jul 31, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions

I blew my chance....

to meet Ryan Succop at the Mr. Irrelevant party here in So. Cal……my friend took lots of pictures though….lol. Don’t let us down Ryan!

by HeatherChiefsLvr on Jul 29, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions

There's a joke in there somewhere

by KansasCityShuffle on Jul 29, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions

sadly,

there isn’t :( lol

by HeatherChiefsLvr on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions

and...

THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID!

Michael Scott out….

nfl is looking for that yao ming money

by chiefsinchina on Jul 30, 2009 3:11 AM CDT up reply actions

I appreciate your willingness and effort for this informative post

Very good work!

I almost sounded like a City boy there! :)

"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jul 29, 2009 2:55 PM CDT reply actions

After thinking about it

This move really has to be about maximizing training camp bodies for actual ‘football players’. This way they get Succop as many reps as possible in the first couple of weeks, while using that extra roster spot on a linebacker/lineman/DB where injuries come fast and furious. If Succop struggles or shows signs of struggling leading up to and including the 1st preseason game, they bring back Barth or someone else to compete while releasing a ‘no chance’ guy at one have the positions that injuries have ravaged the least.

I don’t think you can underestimate how much coaches value every single roster spot now that it’s only an 80 man roster.

Whether Barth would’ve been the better choice to keep over Succop I don’t know, and I don’t care. Succop’s #’s are worse but his scouting report is good. Barth posted respectable numbers but pretty much only took chip shots and was weak on kickoffs. Who knows? Hopefully Pioli and Haley do, but we shall see.

by RedNose on Jul 29, 2009 2:57 PM CDT reply actions

+1

my thoughts exactly

"I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"

by stagdsp on Jul 29, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions

who remembers

Barth from “You cant do that on Television”

by Grand Master A on Jul 29, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions

That guy used to gross me out so much when I was a kid

by RedNose on Jul 29, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions

appreciate the effort, stag

Good post. Succop will make me nervous for quite a few games because of his college stats. I like the extra leg, though. And because of the lack of physical contact needed to be the kicker and lack of coordination with other teammates, I am comfortable with the fact that there is always “competition” and pressure for kickers, regardless of the number that are in camp.

In fact, why not cut Succop, too, and go to camp without any kickers, leaving more room for others? Then just pick one up off the street before the first pre-season game. ;-) Haley said he can do better that last year with any 22 off the street, didn’t he?

by sunny D on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM CDT reply actions

Well in the spirit

we can go without a Punter and Long-snapper too

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions

A thought

Pioli on the affect of Cap. said something about how some teams were handcuffed because they had spent it all on FA and draft picks and had NO room to sign a talent that came available in the cutdowns of pre-season football. WE will see someone that will become available and the Chiefs have the ability to sign them,

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 6:19 PM CDT reply actions

I only have two things

One) Thanks for the Stat overload, all good info but there was a lot brought together all at once. Thank you for doing the ground work.
Two) I find it hard to believe (other than it’s the off season) that there is sooooo much drama over a kicker, who did not make the pro bowl last year.

I’m sure the GM and Coach looked at this from every possible angle before they made their choices. Until they start playing real games I’m willing to take a wait and see attitude with all this. They are they paid professionals, I’m not. I hope everything they do can be converted into wins, but before I call a move smart or dumb I’ll be a Missouri Native and just say “Show Me”.

is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?

by KC Fanatic on Jul 29, 2009 8:02 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Agreed, We need some Show ME

The Drama was nice though as it showed the AP spirit. And how many were scurrying for date to refute Crawfords arguements? My thought! Never Play Chess with Crawford and Heaven Help you FF players in UC’s or DTR’s league :)

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 29, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions

I have no choice...

I’m in every FF league :)

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jul 29, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Nice

That was a nice read, however I think we are all missing some vital information…

I’m sure we are going to use Turtle in many ways, seeing as how diverse his skill truly is. Once we start practicing, Turtle will continuously push Succop. I’m not sure if “Mr. Irrelevant” will even be needed by the time the regular season rolls around, because an inside source apparently saw Turtle kick a 75 yarder, Labron James style, from the sideline, and slowly walk away the other direction, as if he does it everyday.

Bottom line, look for Turtle to step it up and compete at Kicker as well.

-Robbie

by Chiefsfan2012 on Jul 30, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions

Nice post

by TheQ on Jul 30, 2009 6:23 PM CDT reply actions

A little more info and stats

2008 wasn’t as good, but he kicked most of the year with a sports hernia

YEAR FGM FGA PCT XPM XPA PTS
2008 20 30 66.7 30 30 90

Carolina’s punter and placekicker returns for his final season in the Garnet & Black… strong-legged senior who has handled all three kicking chores: kickoffs, punts and placements for the Gamecocks… is a postseason honors candidate again in 2008… one of the top returning placekickers in college football who should be a candidate for the Lou Groza Award along with all-conference and All-America consideration… was a semi-finalist for the Groza Award in 2006… was the Joe Morrison Award winner in the spring as the team’s Offensive Player of the Spring… is 29-for-39 in field goal attempts in his career (74.4 percent) and is 16-for-17 (94.1 percent) inside 40 yards… has converted 22 of his last 26 attempts (84.6 percent) from inside 47… has scored 161 points in his career, ranking 10th on Carolina’s all-time list… averging 42.3 yards on 85 career punts.

2007: Was an Associated Press honorable mention All-SEC selection… earned SEC first-team preseason honors as a placekicker by the media and was a second-team selection by the coaches…. also earned preseason second-team All-SEC honors as a punter by both the media and coaches… named to the preseason Lou Groza Award watch list after being a semi-finalist for the award in 2006… also named to the Ray Guy Award watch list… was 13-for-17 in field goal attempts… three of his four misses came from at least 47 yards out (47, 48 and 50)… kicked three field goals in the 16-12 win at Georgia, earning SEC Special Teams Player of the Week honors… also punted seven times for a 40.7 yard average against the Bulldogs… punted five times for a 44.8 yard average against LSU… averaged 42.0 yards on six punts in the win over Kentucky, including a 52-yarder… matched his career-high with a 58-yard punt against Vanderbilt… hit a season-long 49-yard field goal at Tennessee with just under two minutes remaining to give the Gamecocks’ a 24-21 lead… also handled the kick off duties… averaged 41.6 yards per punt, fourth in the SEC and 39th in the country, with a long of 58, and averaged 64.0 yards on his kickoffs.

2006: Earned second-team All-SEC honors as selected by the league’s coaches… a semi-finalist for the Groza Award… connected on 16-of-20 of his field goal tries… his 80.0 percent accuracy was fourth in the SEC… actually only missed two – a 51-yarder that hit the left upright against Georgia and a 33-yarder against Houston in the Liberty Bowl… other two misses were blocked… was 10-for-11 from inside 47 yards… booted a 50-yarder against Tennessee and a career-high 55-yarder – the second longest in school history – against Vanderbilt… also had a 55-yarder taken off the board against Florida due to a penalty… averaged 42.8 yards per field goal attempt and 40.1 yards per field goal made… connected on 37-of-39 extra points for 85 points overall… his 85 points led the team and was the third-highest single-season total in school history… averaged 6.5 points per game, fourth in the SEC and the third-highest mark among kickers… 29 of 73 kickoff attempts (40 percent) were touchbacks… averaged 43.7 yards per punt, which would have ranked third in the SEC with enough punts to qualify… was the SEC Special Teams Player of the Week for his efforts against Mississippi State when he connected on all three of his field goal attempts (39, 35 and 47 yards) and punted six times for a 48.7 yard average… also averted a certain blocked punt and scrambled 16 yards for a first down, leading to a Carolina score.

2005: Handled the kickoff chores as a true freshman and was the backup placekicker… kicked off 59 times for a 62.3 yard average with 29 touchbacks (49 pct.)… attempted two field goals, missing from 50 yards against UCF and from 46 versus Georgia.

http://gamecocksonline.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/succop_ryan00.html

by markc on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 AM CDT reply actions

Let's not worry too much

The move took me by surprise, but I think they must have had good reason. Possible reasons? They just didn’t like Barth either because of attitude, talent, physical abilty, or not listening to coaches. We out here will never know. Succop us bigger, stronger, and apparently they believe he can work out. Before you freak out too much about his college stats, remember who our kicking coach is and review his history with bringing along other kickers. I think we’ll be OK.
From the mothership

Hoffman’s latest star pupil was Dolphins rookie K Dan Carpenter. Under Hoffman’s guidance in 2008, Carpenter connected on 21 of 25 FG tries, including a streak of 14 straight makes, the longest string by a Miami rookie. In fact, eight of those FGs during that streak came from 40 yards or longer.

Now was Dan Carpenter a major player in college? From wikipedia

In his four years at Montana, Carpenter converted on 54 of 75 field goals (72.8 percent

This is by no means the first kicker that has excelled under Hoffman.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Jul 31, 2009 6:19 AM CDT reply actions

For being one of the more vocal opponents of further kicker debate

You sure have a knack for showing up in the middle of the discussion :)

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 31, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions

But you have a good point

about the coach.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 31, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions

I still disagree with the move though

Ha!

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jul 31, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions

+1

by hmills110 on Jul 31, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Actually

I’m not so much a vocal opponent of the debate, as an opponent of us worrying that much about it. I love to debate!

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Jul 31, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Of Course This All Ignores One Key Fact

Gostkowski’s and Barth’s field goal percentages got better each year in college. Succop’s got worse…not to mention he never at any point hit 88% of his FGs in college.

Sorry, but you can try and reframe it any way you want…Succop wasn’t in Barth’s or Gostkowski’s class as a kicker in college and he’s unlikely to be so in the pros.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.

by UCrawford on Aug 1, 2009 3:31 PM CDT reply actions

Time will tell if he works out or not, but you have can't just go off of last season's % due to injury and say he's regressed

Prior to last season, when the story is Succop was dealing with an abdominal strain for part of the season, Succop inside of 40 yds in his college career was 16/17 (94%). He also was good on 22 of his last 26 attempts inside of 47 yds (84.6%).

Season by season analysis: Was 80% in 2006 (16/20). In 2007 was 13/17 (76.4%) so he missed 4 FGs that year. However, if you look at the 4 he missed, 3 of the 4 misses were from 47 yds or beyond. He was dealing with the ab. strain in 2008, and went 20/30 overall, but finished the year going 6/7 (85.7%). If you take out a 4 game stretch from 10/4-10/18 when he went 3/9, (I can only assume that this is when he was hurting) the season numbers are 17/21 (81%). I think his career college long FG is 55 yds. He’s pretty accurate inside of 47 yds. He gets opportunities to try 50+ yd field goals due to his leg strength so it brings down his overall %. If he was just kicking inside 40 yds (where most of Barth’s attempts were last year) he’d be well over 88 %

2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp

by Chiefs_KC on Aug 1, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm Going Off The Last Three Years

He’s gotten worse every season. And staying healthy is as much a skill as anything else. Succop simply never outperformed Barth in college. His accuracy was worse than Barth’s on average field goals and despite his supposedly strong leg he wasn’t a more accurate long-kicker than Barth. Their career longs in college were the same and Barth was more accurate.

Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Aug 1, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions

And Just FYI

Barth hit 90% of his field goals his last two seasons in college. Succop was never that good in any one season.

Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Aug 1, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions

I am a Succop

I have always been a Succop.
I will always be a Succop.
I love being a Succop.
Until proven that being a Succop is wrong.
Probably not this season or for many more. Being a Succop rules :)

Ryan Succop will Kick Two clutch kicks that will directly affect Said game.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 1, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

Well played, sir…well played. :)

Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Aug 3, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Fucking amazing that people are actually bitching about kickers

before training camp.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 2, 2009 4:22 AM CDT reply actions

I can't believe this is still going on

Did you not hear Haley’s comments regarding the cut? Simply for roster space. Barth is not out of it. But they already know how he performs in games. Give the rookie a chance during preseason. If ye doesn’t perform than Haley has a list of veterans who can be called in. The competition is against everyone that is out there, not just Barth and Succop.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 2, 2009 7:32 AM CDT reply actions

I agree

If Succop doesn’t make the cut they’ll bring someone else in. No way it’s Barth. Doesn’t have the leg strength. Was at the bottom of the league in kick-offs. Gary or Morten Andersen at age 50 could outperform Barth.

by Chiefs_KC on Aug 2, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions