Figuring Out What's Already in Pioli's Hand
by Matt Conner on Jul 16, 2009 1:50 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Offseason
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PrintThe cries can grow loud 'round here at times, including from yours truly. As the various free agents remaining find homes on other teams or coordinate trades you'd swear we could have been in on, it's difficult to not question the direction of the Chiefs front office with so many glaring holes still remaining before training camp. Of course, we all put on our best face and cross our fingers for the young unprovens found throughout, but let's be honest - most of the guys will have a short shelf life and were a lower draft pick (or undrafted FA) for a reason.
In our dream world (which also flows with rivers like the land of Dairy Queen), Quentin Lawrence becomes the new Marques Colston or Eddie Royal, giving us an Arizona-like WR tandem for Haley to display to the rest of the NFL. Brad Cottam, in this sequence, not only provides as a serviceable replacement for Tony Gonzalez but becomes a sure-handed promising young tight end that make us all thankful we picked up the second round pick when we could. And the news of Damien MacIntosh shedding all that weight? Yep, even here he finds a second wind and solidifies the right side of the line.
Of course, on the other side of the ball, Tyson Jackson indeed becomes the next Richard Seymour with Glenn Dorsey making good on every ounce of promise displayed at LSU. Tamba Hali creates a permanent home at the pass rushing linebacker position and walks away with double digit sacks. And let's not forget the embattled veterans like Mike Brown and Zach Thomas being injury-free and finding young legs again as they lead a playoff-caliber defense. Oh yeah, Bernard Pollard takes out Josh McDaniels in the process somehow.
More after the jump...
But we know these things aren't true. Sure, one or two might develop and, if so, that's a great development for the Chiefs. But reality must set in as the Chiefs hold only one of 30 or so fan bases around the nation hoping for the exact same thing with the exact same passion (give or take). So as the rose-colored sunglasses come off, we wonder why we don't make the big move to give us one more variable to at least hope will turn out.
But Pioli and company, besides a few veteran signings and the big Matt Cassel/Mike Vrabel trade - seem content with some of the "holes" in the line-up. And after some complaining, I think I'm rather glad. Why? Because in year one of the regime, one thing is most important: Figuring out what you're already playing with.
Some players have already seen the door because they didn't fit (i.e. Will Franklin). But I'm sure the levels of pain in an NFL front office go something like this:
3. Watching a trade go down only to realize you could have pulled off the same thing
2. Watching the guy highest on your draft board go the pick before yours
And the worst...
1. Watching a guy you already had on your roster develop and thrive on another team
Some of this has to do with schemes (in fact, much of it). But sometimes this happens simply because a team didn't pay attention to what they already had on the roster. Sometimes in the name of purging, a team simply moves on from someone quite talented to get "their guys in here." And for a professional organization and competent front office, you simply can't make those mistakes.
Keeping Tony Gonzalez around surely would have made Cassel's entry much sweeter and easier and definitely would have kept a fan base much happier. But how many years do you go without knowing what the third round pick sitting can do? While some were pining for KC to just shed Dorsey in a trade, the best thing to do is give him at least 16 games to show what he can do before you prematurely label him one way or the other.
If we end the season with the same holes we started with, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It simply means that we now have a complete idea of what we're working with. And really in the first year of what hopefully builds into a dynasty, that's exactly what we should be hoping Pioli is up to.
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Not at all.
Wikerson really is flourishing. Here’s a good read.
Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce
by kcchiefsfan72 on Jul 16, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
DAMN IT...
stupid thing didn’t attach…
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jun/19/190048/sp-wilkerson-finally-a-starter/sports-bucs/
Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
1. Chiefs will be at least 8-8 and vie for division champs
2. DJ will break out and finally have his year
3. LJ returns to form
4. DBowe drops will reduce
by kcchiefsfan72 on Jul 16, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow…that’s crazy. I had no idea that was the situation with him. Is Scott Fujita and Kendrell Bell in the same camp then? Bell especially seems like he is flourishing in Buffalo.
Kawika was on the Giants' Superbowl team.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
+1
I was a big Fujita fan.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jul 16, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I read a while back the Bucs didn't understand why we let him go...
or something to that extent.
by chicks_love_chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions
Mother Effer...
I REALLY hate it when people put “after the jump”
It really is quite annoying.
Herm Edwards: "There's FOUR quarters in football?!"
I understand that
But the idea is to make for a quicker loading time when people enter the site (less stuff on the front page). Plus, it engages other readers that wouldn’t normally click “comments”.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 16, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why it says
“Continue reading this post” when it’s on the front page ;)
“after the jump” Where the hell am I jumping? Jumping onto the link that says “Continue reading this post?” SURE!
It’s just a pet peeve, and I’m being more goofy than serious, and I’m pretty certain I’m coming off as a dick, so I’m going to stfu now.
Herm Edwards: "There's FOUR quarters in football?!"
Now that I look at it on the front page again
I feel like a dick… It could certainly be misleading.
e-pimp-slap me
Herm Edwards: "There's FOUR quarters in football?!"
'Smack'
done =)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Offseason is long from over and other players will come available...
Over the next month youre looking at 500+ players being released. Maybe they wont be superstars but who knows this is the time of the year where we were able to find a guy like thigpen.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
In Shape!
The article said that h’d slimmed down 25 pounds & was in better shape which accounted for the improvement. Sounds a lot like what we’ve been working on here in KC this off-season.
Or Worse Yet
To watch a guy that you cut flourish elsewhere because your coach failed to demand that he do his best job of being in shape and knowing his playbook.
The one thing that I am certain of is this will not be a problem under a Todd Haley coached team.
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
by Frahnkensteen on Jul 16, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Pioli knows yet what he has.
By all accounts last year’s team lost games because they were fat and out of shape. That’s kind of amazing. High school teams shouldn’t lose because they were fat and out of shape — it’s too easy a problem to fix. I think the new regime will need this season to see how good some of these guys are and see how they respond to actual coaching.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Help my memory.......the year that they filmed the Chief's training camp...
….I believe that some were picking the Chief’s to do very well. I always thought that the talent was pretty good. It takes a special coach to take the #1 offense to almost nothing in less than 2 years. I do admire Herm as a person, he’s a really good guy I think……just not a good NFL head coach and this was substantiated in the play-off game against the Colts. That had to be one of the most embarrassing games that I’ve ever seen the Chief’s play. No offense, terrible, completely unimaginative play calling….absolutely terrible coaching.
I like this line...
Oh yeah, Bernard Pollard takes out Josh McDaniels in the process somehow.
Nice article, connerman.
This was...
one of the best articles I’ve read on here. Which is saying a lot.
by KCMizzou on Jul 16, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
connerman great post
and some reality in the House :)
Fans should act like Fanatics and the Leadership should act like Leaders.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
We dont know yet...
That’s why I am pumped for the season…we can prove what we have…so many unknowns…oh my
I guess I disagree with quite a bit of this
Pioli is the top judge of talent in the NFL. I think he knows what he has. I think most of you seem to not realize we have a lot of talent on a team that was horribly coached. Even watching the games from last year, we don’t have the coaches view, we don’t necessarily know what each guys assignment was on each play, and so we don’t know how they really grade out to what they were supposed to do. I think the time Pioli spent with Herm before firing him was spent looking at these things and learning what he really had.
As the next article on the page discusses, we were the number 3 team in the NFL in signing free agents this year. What about that statistic makes you think he sat on his hands and did nothing. After spending the time evaluating what we have, he went out and got some guys who have experience and leadership qualities, which is what we were so sorely missing last year. We drafted to fill particular needs the biggest being big athletic guys for the D-line who can play sideline to sideline. The linebacking corps is vastly improved with what we’ve added.
I absolutely agree that it will take this year for them to really know what they have. How do they respond to the coaches we now have? How will they grade out on the assignments they now have? I would expect us to be a major player in FA again next spring but I would not expect to see big flashy marquee names that break the bank a la the Redskins. We will get some more solid guys who can provide competition and depth and fit the mold.
Every year is a rebuilding year. You can never stand pat on who you have. This year we will have to play pretty much mistake free to make a big turn around. It won’t be because we are the most talented team. But I think Pioli knows exactly what he has here.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Weird response
Not sure what you don’t get about what I wrote but appreciate the longer, thoughtful reply. Even after signing 8 free agents, the reality is that we went 2-14, so that’s hardly a huge number. Some might not even make the team in the end and you can’t look at the team and not see holes at WR, TE, OL and so on. So my overall point was that continuing to fill those holes with every available outside player, it’s nice to see us holding fast and making certain of what we have.
I don’t think Pioli knows what he has at all. How can he? There’s been no real football played and the game is vastly different when the pads are on. So he can rely on his coaches, he can watch video, he can see Haley conduct practices, etc. but this next season brings the real test. Not sure how to disagree with that.
Zodeman balls in your court
I see that Pioli should KNOW every good player in the league by memory.
BUT, How will the current players on this franchise play in Pioli’s TEAM.
Don’t and Won’t until they strap it on and the pressure to win is 60 game minutes.
Slow Pioli is not apprapo anymore, He saw and signed players that FIT in places of NEED asap.
QB, LB, TE with the TG trade in mind, WR, some exp in secondary, RG.
Was able to draft 3-4 DE’s and a RT. Oh and the ACE ‘to me’ Ryan Succop!
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t think he should know every player by memory…that is silly.
My point is by viewing tape he has decided that what we have is as good as what we could get in FA.
Yes Playing is the only way we will know…but remember…not only do you have to have talent you have to coach it. That is where we fell down the last three years.
So far I think he has done as good a job as he could to build a foundation. We ain’t even seen the blueprint for the walls yet.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Blue print is up
I commented somewhere about the Pioli/Bellicheck team was reunited.
and the team was fat and out of shape and finished 5-11.
Pioli wasn’t going to see his “1st TEAM” get beat by itself before going on the field.
Pioli has many other “gotchas” stored up on How not to prepare a TEAM.
Haley with Parcells in mind Has many more. TEAM starts at GM/HC.
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I see nothing to disagree with there
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
One of the hallmarks of Belichick
Is not only knowing his team well, but also knowing the teams around him. I heard a quote from someone who said during the draft he knew what all the teams around him wanted to do.
by Joel Thorman on Jul 16, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Weird Answer
How many free agents did you want to see? 30 or 40? Throw enough mud against the wall and see what sticks? Maybe I’m just not getting your point. And when we are number 3 in the league in signing free agents, that seems pretty active to me. If your only point really is we need to go through the season to find out how these guys play…I’m not really disagreeing with that. Do you really think that he lost his ability to view tape and judge that what he has is as good as what he could bring in? I don’t know…maybe it just hit me wrong.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I guess this is what I disagree with
As the various free agents remaining find homes on other teams or coordinate trades you’d swear we could have been in on, it’s difficult to not question the direction of the Chiefs front office with so many glaring holes still remaining before training camp.
I am not one who has been swearing every free agent on the market should come here. I have repeatedly said that this team has a lot more talent than given credit for. Now with good coaching we will develop that talent. And I disagree with the statement of glaring holes…once again..you do not give enough credit to the players we now have.
Sure the land of dreams would cause them all to make the pro bowl but that won’t happen. We will have to play good football with few mistakes and make the most of what we have. My contention is Pioli knows that what he has is as good as what he could pick up in free agency. I’m not seeing a lot of guys who could come in right now. As I have said repeatedly, I think when the cuts down to 53 come in and some more vets are on the street, that they may pick up a few, but that will be after we see what we have with pads on.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
I see nothing to disagree with there :)
When is DTR going to ban you? Is there a Bet up yet on Month/Day :)
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Just something about someone saying “don’t say this” that makes it the first words out of my mouth lol
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Me too
As said below 2nd shift will be good on AP this year!
Been working through the site since 5PM central. (4 Hrs) I might lose some weight!!!!
just reading and thinking and OF course commenting :)
How many thoughts have you got lined up for a future date?
I’ve got a LSU Tigers thought
another on Tweaking the Chiefs
and one on The West D’s
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Simpy put:
We were only out-classed or out-matched in just a couple of games last year. For the most part, our talent was as good if not better, we were just out-coached & out-played (perhaps due to lack of conditioning &/or veteran “winning” leadership) down the stretch of most games. This year will tell the tale, but the talent has seemed to be here, just sporadic & unguided! As the article pointed out, the free agents that we let go haven’t been “snatched up” by other teams!
Welcome to AP
Turtle has friends in high places.
2nd shift on AP is going to be good this year:)
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 16, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, other than Carolina and Tennessee we could have hung with any of those teams last year.
I think the SD games tell the best story about the talent on our squad.
The game at San Diego when we had all of the injuries, I felt like the defensive players who came off the bench did a very nice job against a solid SD offense. It didnt hurt that our very own Mike Goff got kicked out of the game. I bet he was pissed about that.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 17, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
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