Cassel vs. Thigpen

by Cow of Pain on Jul 15, 2009 6:06 AM CDT Comment 23 comments

For another forum I made a stats-based comparison of Cassel and Thigpen, which I thougt you might enjoy here. Basically the conclusion is that based on last years stats, Cassel really isn't any improvement, but probably not worse either. Obviously with having taken over his franchise tag, the new contract makes sense, but whether it was a good idea to get him in the first place remains to be seen.

Disclaimer: I am a Colts fan. As a Dane I've liked the Chiefs ever since Morten Andersen played there, though, so this is in no way meant as Chiefs bashing.

First up the basic stats:

Cassel: 3693 yards, 21 TD's, 11 ints, completion % 63.4

Thigpen: 2603 yards, 18 TD's, 12 ints,completion % 54.8

So far Cassel looks a lot better. Now let's disect those stats.

First up yardage: Matt Cassel was league leader in YAC percentage with 57. That is more than half his yards were after the catch. Thigpen had a YAC percentage of only 42. If we take away YAC, Cassel is down to 1577, while Thigpen has 1507. If we further take away sack yardage, Cassel is at 1358 and Thigpen 1345.

Touchdowns: Nothing to say there. Cassel had more.

Interceptions: Thigpen had more interceptions in fewer games. However Cassel got sacked a lot more than Thigpen and lost 5 fumbles, whereas Thigpen only lost 2. So in total turnovers Cassel actually has 2 more.

Completion percentage: Cassel's best stat compared to Thigpen. However a slight modification is still in place here. Many incompletions occur because the ball is thrown away to avoid a sack, and so if we should look at completion/(pass+sack), giving Cassel a percentage of 58.0 and Thigpen 51.6.

Now let's finally look at the adjusted stats per passing down:

Cassel: 2.4 yards, 0.58 completion, 0.037 TD, 0.030 turnover

Thigpen: 3.0 yards, 0.516 completion, 0.040 TD, 0.034 turnover

Basically it's quite even. Thigpen takes more chances, but that is probably mostly because of the system.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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OMG...

Is your next post going to be about how T.G is such a smug self centered asshole? Good post other than the fact that this same thing has been done 15 times.

by CPT.Caveman on Jul 15, 2009 6:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Chill Caveman

He means no harm….

Arrowhead Pride

by Chris Thorman on Jul 15, 2009 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I know he means no harm,and it is a great post, but it has been done over and over. Its almost the same thing that was posted a month ago to the letter. Sorry Cow of pain to be so harsh, but this has been posted before. lol i’ll give you this your ID did give me a good laugh.

by CPT.Caveman on Jul 15, 2009 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha, you must read AP as much as I do :)

Yeah stuff gets repeated but its part of the off season.

Arrowhead Pride

by Chris Thorman on Jul 15, 2009 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I probably should have looked at the archives

That’s the thing with not being a regular :)

As mentioned I got to look at the stats because of a discussion in another forum, and found them interesting, so I thought I’d share. I can fully understand if you are sick and tired of discussing this topic, though. Anyway no harm done (I hope).

by Cow of Pain on Jul 15, 2009 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good post Cow of Pain

It takes a true football fan to take the time to write this artical for a team that is not his his.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Jul 15, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

and when Paytons’ run is done. Come on down to KC and see some rabid fans :)

Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 15, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good job Cavey

Respect and bust his balls at same time.

Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jul 15, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I think this was a good post

A different twist on a topic that has been talked about a lot. Nice work COP.

Arrowhead Pride

by Joel Thorman on Jul 15, 2009 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

by Cow of Pain on Jul 15, 2009 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chill

The guy is a Colts fan and he probably doesnt spend a lot of time here. When I saw his post I thought, “Again!?” but then I read hi sarticle and saw that he was clearly not around here a liot. This is what we call judgement.

If it is clear someon eis not a regular and is trying to contribute to our board, don’t ball bust them or they won’t come back.

D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.

by Patrick Allen on Jul 15, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to say

When I saw the title of the post I thought OMG not another one. But well written and not a knee-jerk Thiggy-love piece. It is true that these two are not that different, and that gives me a better feeling about the QB position because rarely does the starter play 60 minutes for 16 games. We have a more than capable backup who will only get better with a guy like this to learn from in terms of preparation.
I look at it this way….they can both get the job done in similar style of offense. But it is kind of like the difference between fine china and paper plates…both will get dinner served but one is going to look a lot better doing it and need less support to get it done. I think Thiggy will improve and maybe even get his shot someday, but he will have to become at least plastic plates first.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Jul 15, 2009 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't matter...

Cassel is the man and I for one am excited that we have Thigpen as a solid #2. I hope we don’t need him but, if we do, it will be nice to have him around.
I have looked at these same stats on numerous occasions and although, on paper, Thiggy looks like he compares pretty well, when you watch the tape from both guys last year, there is no comparison. Cassel is slicker than Thiggy. Instead of tucking the ball and running with it everytime the line breaks down, Cassel BUYS time with his feet looking to make plays downfield instead of running.
This is my last point on this: Last season, there were several times when we needed Thigpen to drive down the field at the end of the game and he was not able to get it done.
On the other hand, Cassel showed himself to be a guy who can drive down the field, score, and win games by putting the game on his shoulders. Cassel is used to winning. He has been around winners and has been brought up around some of the best coaches in the world ever since he was in College.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 15, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Breaking down the numbers

The very best comparison I have seen of Cassel vs Thigpen was by Bob Gretz in this column. This breaks it down into very realistic numbers for the same types of offenses and plays.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Jul 15, 2009 9:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The general problem with running quarterbacks....

Once they have to make plays with there feet in the game, they tend to switch to that option sooner and more often.

Offensive linemen hate it as well. It’s alot harder to block for a guy, if you have no friggin idea where he is. You shove the defender outside because you’re trying to hold the pocket, and the damn quarterback scrambles outside to keep the play alive.

Cassel has the discipline to stay in the pocket, and use his feet if he has to. He still does reads on all the targets, though. Unlike Tavaris Jackson (Mr. Run Scared) in Minnesota.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 15, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thats true.....

But i really think that Bones could and will improve his pocket discipline, and their is nothing harder to defend than a QB with the ability to scamble or hit the open WR. Just ask any defender who lined up on the other side of the ball from S.Young. You can look at all the numbers you want when comparing the 2 QB’s, but you have to take the coaching, scheme,and all around talent of the 2 teams into consideration. IMO Bone’s would be the better QB if he had got the chance to sit on the side line’s and learn from some of the best coach’s and one of the best QB’s in football.

by CPT.Caveman on Jul 15, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm, bones?

Not a Chiefs guy, so I don’t know, but is that the knickname you have for Thigpen? Is that because of the picture with the skeleton? Too funny.

If Cassel teaches Thigpen to prepare the same way Brady taught Cassel to prepare, then he will just get better. Then when some safety takes out Cassel’s knee, Thigpen gets a chance to shine. Not that that could ever happen.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 15, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Yes Bones is his nickname here at AP because of the picture with the skeleton.

by CPT.Caveman on Jul 15, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ROFL

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 15, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW I like Thigpen

Of all the teams that I thought might take Cassel as a quarterback, the Chiefs weren’t on my list (of course neither was Denver). Why argue one or the other when you have both?

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 15, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt more shake 'n' bake in Thiggy's game.

If he does take the field, I think he’ll have more faith in his WRs.

As for frustrating his own o-line, I think slotmachine got that backwards. The breakdown up front preceded the QB’s happy feet syndrome.

All in all, very hard to judge the differences between the 2 QBs from game film, although we’ve pretty much covered everything that can be covered in that regard. Cassel has definitely schooled Thigpen in terms of how the starting QB should handle himself football-wise off the field (training and learning behaviors). Thigpen remains the passed-over QB, but he’s wiser, now.

by hmills110 on Jul 15, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I made a post about the same thing

Cassel is the better QB to start now but with a year of learning under Cassel and practice I think a lot of teams will be taking a look at Thingpen next year.

Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!

by bringbacktheglory on Jul 15, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs