A look at the O-Line

by SillyHatDay on Jun 8, 2009 4:54 PM CDT Comment 41 comments

I've been wanting to do some analysis on out offensive line for a while but I haven't been able to come up with an effective way to do it. My first hurdle was finding O line stats to toy with. After a long look a found stats.com(obscure name, i know) which actually provides them. The only real stat that O liners get recorded is their sacks allowed, so that's what I'll run with.

Im going to presume our starting lineup looks something like this come first snap.

Left Tackle	Branden Albert
Left Guard	Brian Waters
Center	Rudy Niswanger
Right Guard	Mike Goff
Right Tackle	Damion McIntosh

I'm least confident at center since we signed Eric Ghiaciuc.

Now, last season our offensive line allowed 37 sacks. If we take the sack totals for each of the players I just listed, we get

Albert 4.5 Waters 1 Niswanger 3.5 Goff 4.5 Mclintosh 7

Trade Niswanger for Ghiaciuc and he had 4.

That totals to 20.5 which is not too bad. our backups and happenstance would have to allow for another 17 sacks to surpass last year's sacks allowed total. That lineup is only one player different that last year's line, with Goff as the only switch. In looking at Goff's stats I found something interesting: last year he allowed 4 sacks but in the previous three combined he only allowed 0.5. only three times in 11 years did he allow more than 2 sacks. Given this, it is not unreasonable to suspect he will give up less sacks that that this year. Sure he's a year older but lineman get better with age(IMO). Albert was a stud in college and had a respectable rookie season. He allowed 4.5 sacks last year and should get better this year. If he develops as he should then watch for his sack total to go down as well. Waters allowed one which is high for him. Looks like he's back so we'll skip to Mclintosh. Mclintosh allowed 7 sacks. That accounts for over a third of the sacks allowed by those starting five based on last years totals. He is blantantly the weakest element on the line. Our sacks allowed was not that bad compared to the rest of the league but our unit benefitted from a very mobile Thigpen behind them.

In looking at this i've come away with the following points:

Goff was a good pickup and will ease the load on his peers.

Waters MUST be retained.

Center should see healthy competition for the starting job. Ghiaciuc and Niswanger are clones: same size, similar performance. see if one fits with the unit better.

Albert has to develop

Mclintosh must be replaced. I would toss Colin Brown in with the 1st team in practices just to see what he's got. It's hard to believe he could be any worse. His size alone presents a hurdle for his opponent.

Not having a star ball catcher at TE may well be a good thing. A consistent blocking TE can't hurt the line, especially lined up next to what is now our weakest spot at RT.

The line will be better. I dont think it will be a drastic improvement but I think it will be enough to keep Cassel from being the most sacked QB in football.

The chiefs will be better. with even a modestly better line Cassel will have more time that Thigpen did last year. Cassel was sacked 47 times last year and still put up very good numbers. Being on the ground less should help his numbers go up further.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Nice post

Learned something new.

Agree with most everything except tossing Colin Brown out there. McIntosh did look better when the Chiefs moved to the ArrowSpread. I still think he’s better than Colin Brown…right now.

by Joel Thorman on Jun 8, 2009 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

About McIntosh but I still laugh every time I watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FwFgKstwdU&feature=related

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Jun 8, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

That is some funny shit right there.

He straight up plowed those bitches.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that is sweet

maybe i should reconsider my campaign to cut the guy

maybe not

by stagdsp on Jun 9, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is awesome

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jun 9, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

great video

that was good. I guess he can move when he wants too.

by Meakcfan on Jun 26, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think.....

Bringing M.Goff in makes Macintosh better, he will no longer have to baby sit the RG !

by CPT.Caveman on Jun 8, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Jun 9, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

RT

I’m really really hoping to see some good competition during OTAs and Training Camp at the RT spot.

This franchise would be so much better off if Barry Richardson or Colin Brown stepped up to start at RT and Sackintosh was cut.

by stagdsp on Jun 8, 2009 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I am on that same bandwagon

But in McIntosh’s defense, he did play better towards the end of last year, but I would like to see him do it against top competition like he faced early last season. I am not sure he can do that, so it would be great if B-Rich or Brown could step up.

by TheQ on Jun 8, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldnt cut McIntosh.

Maybe give him a chance inside because he might make a better guard. I think Albert will make progress this year especially since he was apparently playing way overweight last year and came into this offseason 35+ lbs too heavy. The center spot would be a bigger concern to me unless Niswanger steps up. Ghiaciuc according to Bengal fans is a human turnstile and if anyone is the authority on bad it would be Begal and Raider fans.

by GenericBrand on Jun 8, 2009 6:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good look at the line SillyHat

This is a part of the team that fascinates me as well. It is so crucial to our success next year that these guys jell and play consistently. We need Waters to come ready to play, because it is looking more and more like they are not going to trade him.

by TheQ on Jun 8, 2009 6:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You know

the fat boys up front are the one’s who have the most weight to lose. I bet you D-Mac, B Dubbs, and Albert came into camp tipping the scales the most. I can imagine Goff & Niswanger being more fit and ready, but I’m sure they have some trimming down to do too. I think D-Mac’s problem is that he’s too fat thats why he gave up so many sacks because his lazy ass is getting smoked by quicker left ends. I’m loving the offseason conditioning because Herm’s soft approach is what led to so many injuries and our team dropping off in the second half. Some of these guys may come out in the best shape of their careers (especially if they were drafted by Peterson)

by KansasCityShuffle on Jun 8, 2009 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

herb taylor

filled in as well at RT , what do you think of his play? i thought he did better than mcintosh.

by SDchieffan on Jun 8, 2009 7:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He filled in at LT when Albert was down and he played very well.

I think they will keep him as a backup LT.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jun 9, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand about McIntosh

but wasn’t he asked to switch from left tackle to right. I know most of us think that is easy to do but it’s not. I have played both sides of the o-line and the footwork is different. Not to mention that in the pros you go from being on an island to having a tight end next to you. He was a left tackle for a reason so asking him to learn a totally different set of techniques takes some time. If he started playing better at the end of the year maybe it was because he started getting comfortable. I know he wasn’t the greatest left tackle to but he was good. All this talk about cutting him is a little premature because no one else has stepped up.

by Nelly on Jun 8, 2009 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree, Nelly.

My memory’s gen’lly pretty poor, but I seem to recall McIntosh being drafted to play left tackle, but was coming from RT background.

As far as having a TE next to him, MOST of the time, Tony G was either in the pattern or whiffing or blatantly holding. Not a whole lot of TE help. With the TE in there more, and Goff getting it done on his left shoulder, McIntosh will be able to play more to his strengths more often. I think McIntosh would be a terrific G. Put him in more situations where he’s pulling and lead-blocking, with a head of steam. With him and one or two others like him paving the road, LJ could trot to the goal line every play. <—- hyperbole.

Heh. That video Scootness is talking about IS a riot. It’s one thing worrying about how good he is with his kick-step in pass protection, and quite another to see him pancake anybody who gets in his way when he’s on the move. Granted, he was up against some apparently snoozing defenders in the secondary, but knocking two guys flat and keepin’ his feet is a pretty neat work!

by hmills110 on Jun 8, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, McIntosh was drafted to play LT, having played some OL his last year or so at K-State, but played at defensive tackle most of his collegiate career.

by burntorangehorn on Jun 8, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

McIntosh and Goff are just fine…as long as they’re backups. I feel sorry for McIntosh, though. He’s been moved around a lot, which has probably hindered his ability to become a more reliable contributor. I sure hope he settles in well at RT this season, because the center and right guard spots are suspect at best.

by burntorangehorn on Jun 8, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thx for input on Sack'n'toss in college.

I still seem to remember him being some sort of athletic guard with LT potential. But you could be totally right on that. But with this last post, burntorange, are you saying RG is an issue this season? I have more worried about C, myself. I’m pretty sure Goff is the real deal at G, though. Or are you saying McIntosh would be worse at C or G?

by hmills110 on Jun 9, 2009 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m mostly just saying that I’m not sold on Goff. There’s a reason SD let him go, and it wasn’t because he was looking to break the bank or anything.

by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was the money or something like it

They have Dielman at LG and Forney or Vasquez at RG this year

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 12, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Different style of blocker.

He’s an Erhardt-Perkins guard, chosen for the kind of things Marty wanted him to do. Norv Turner is a West Coast guy. Goff wasn’t a good fit in that system. By all indications, though, he’s a SOLID acquisition for what Haley and Gailey want to accomplish.

As I understand it, the struggles of the LT since Turner go right to the change in blocking schemes. I think they went to a zone-blocking scheme (For a clinic, watch old Bronco film.), and it didn’t fit Marty’s personnel. Before Turner, Goff was an intrinsic part of a dominant running attack, whose reputation continues to inflate the reputation of the San Diego Chargers, even after it’s been discombobulated.

by hmills110 on Jun 13, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW, nice nickname for him. “Sack’n’toss.” I laughed.

by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where ya been?

That’s an oldie! Seriously, I’m not dissin’ ya. I’ve enjoyed your posts.

by hmills110 on Jun 13, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From Macintosh's Chiefs' bio....

“A four-year letterman at Kansas State, playing in 44 games (31 starts) as both an offensive and defensive lineman … Concluded his collegiate career with 105 tackles, 20.0 stops for loss, 7.5 sacks, three fumble recoveries and two forced fumbles … Saw action in 12 games (11 starts) as a senior in ‘99, his only full campaign as an offensive lineman”. Here’s the link

http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/damion_mcintosh/

Farther down it says he started as a defensive lineman his junior year and saw action on both sides of the ball his sophomore year and was freshman of the year as a defensive lineman. After thinking on that, I’m beginning to soften toward Macintosh a little. Here’s a guy that was athletic/versatile enough that coaches asked him to play not only multiple positions but both sides of the ball. In the NFL, he was asked to switch positions again. And, he just does it. No complaining! In an ego-filled sport he seems to be a genuine team player, not focusing on what may be best for himself, but what the team really needs. I am not a Macintosh fan, but, maybe one more year at RT and he fulfills his potential? I’m not certain but I am a little less inclined to blast the Chiefs for giving him a chance.

by whoadog on Jun 9, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He can plow the road, but

I don’t think backpedaling in pass protection is his forte. Conditioning might help that. If he’s beaten at RT, he’ll be the #1 utility player, able to give help everywhere except C. After that video, I’d like to see more plays designed where he steps out and leads the way down the field.

by hmills110 on Jun 9, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it another example of poor O-line coaching?

As McIntosh was moved from LT to RT and maybe the foot work was SNAFU.

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 9, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think my hope for McIntosh is that he ends up being like Glenn Parker in his latter years: a great filler-inner who doesn’t really start anymore.

by burntorangehorn on Jun 12, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give him a chance and let Haley Sackintosh Mcintosh if need be:)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 12, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I review his background, courtesy of whoadog,

I get the sense of an athletic big man whose forte is not passively impeding another guy. Seems like he’s pretty good at gettin’ where he wants to be, regardless of who’s in his way. Maybe we’ll see more of that in the future?

by hmills110 on Jun 13, 2009 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NT anyone?

by fishhooks on Jun 23, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did much better on the right side toward the end of the year last season.

I think one of the young guys will have to do a lot to take his job. I am not saying he is all that great but, there had to be a reason he was still starting last year. i have heard that King carl didn’t want a young pup starting over his highly paid free agent but, I still think it will take a lot for one of the youngsters to unseat him.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jun 9, 2009 12:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's remember that McIntosh was adjusting to the right side

for a guy who didn’t have the quickest first step to begin with, I’m looking for him to be better this year than last.

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Jun 9, 2009 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, a bit slow on the kick-step.

With his background, it seems like he made a name takin’ it to the other guy, rather than just trying to slow down a pass rusher.

He lead blocks like an athletic steamroller. Maybe this line can take some of the starch out of defenses by running at ‘em and over ’em. With a TE that can block and Mike Goff at RG, I’m not nearly as uptight about the right side as I was.

by hmills110 on Jun 9, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

not having to keep one eye on Adrian Jones should help McIntosh a lot.

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Jun 10, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by Chiefsfan1970 on Jun 9, 2009 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

this could be a great line as long as they stay healthy !

by homer555 on Jun 10, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeppers.

Health and depth are kinda the same, though. Better rotation means less fatigue and fewer injuries. But it also means you have someone who can step up at need. I’d be tickled to death to see one of the FA tackles come in and give the Chiefs some convincing depth at the OT spots. That’s the one place that all the coaching in the world can’t fix, if the athletes are inferior.

Some here really like Herb Taylor. I don’t know that much about him. Have to check his game logs and reference them with my NFL Rewind. Boy it’s tough using Rewind for analysis. I’m always wanting to rewind and step through frame by frame when I have a particular player to watch, and hell, half the time, the DBs aren’t even on the damn screen. I hate that about TV coverage. Really hard to get a sense of the entire play. See the same thing in movies, all the time suggesting action by jostling the camera, instead of just putting good stunt men in there and watching the fight from ringside.

by hmills110 on Jun 13, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say

Move Goff to Center and Sachintoche to guard and open comp for RT

by fishhooks on Jun 23, 2009 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Herb Taylor

Did everybody forget about this guy?! WTF is going on..am I the only one who remembers Herb Taylor stepping in a performing as well as he did in place of Albert when he got hurt? Why cant Taylor try out at RT? It should be competition between Taylor, Richardson and Brown. McIntosh doesnt even deserve a chance..dude is garbage

by Petey14 on Jun 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs