The Dorsey Thing....Again
It is pretty amazing how there are so many Chiefs fans who think Glen Dorsey is a bust. We go through this every time someone talks about the draft, the defense, or available FA. And it is not just here. It seems like I know an awful lot of people who have this perception. Perhaps it's the idea that we traded Jared Allen and everyone expected to have a new piece plugged in with the same production. Maybe it's just that since he was a high draft pick people have utterly ridiculous expectations. We have to realize the entire season was a defensive debacle last year, with record breaking futility, for a whole lot of reasons. Now I begin to worry that the same unreasonable expectations are going to be laid at Tyson Jackson's feet. Not only do you have to pick someone with talent, you have to coach them and develop them as a player. In the NFL that usually takes a couple of years.
Awhile back, Bob Gretz had a great article on his site about Dorsey and his production. He had a couple of charts showing first year production of first round draft picks, and Dorsey showed up very well compared to that group. I have used those stats quite a number of times in pointing out to people how they have the perception wrong. But it got me thinking about how the stats look for DTs who have made All-Pro Status. So naturally, being the geek that I am I started looking up what players had been voted All-Pro and what their stats were for the first two years of their careers. And to be utterly geekish, I tracked this all the way back to 1990 when Saleaumua was the last Chief to make it. I used Wikipedia for the names and Pro-football-reference.com for the stats. I also decided to add in the Chiefs' draft choices over that time, just to give a frame of reference to the draft busts that we have made over the years. Do note that on the Chiefs picks, I included both DT and DE just for fun.
Now...what do we learn from this preponderance of numbers?
There have been 24 guys named All-Pro since '90, many of them with multiple seasons, so I think this is a very good group to compare against. After all, I want Dorsey to not only be a good player, but a player people speak of in the same breath as guys on this list. Looking at the first two seasons of each gives a reference point of 48 seasons. I do question the stats on some of the guys from the early ‘90s....especially Ray Childress. He was awesome but holy cow...135 and 170 is a LOT of tackles.
Of the 24, only 5 posted higher tackle totals than Dorsey in the first year. 14 posted higher first year sack total. Only 3 started as many games as Dorsey.
Nearly all of these guys showed marked improvement from year one to year two. By this measure, Dorsey should have an outstanding year this year. Considering the amount of playing time Dorsey got last year he is ahead of most of the top players in terms of experience.
While Jared Allen was a sack machine, he did not post as many tackles first year as Dorsey.
This chart just shows numbers for All-Pro DTs and not DEs, but when viewed against these numbers it looks like Tamba Hali is a stud. Let's not give up on him either.
The Chiefs have had a lot of draft picks that were either not very talented, or were not developed.
The most important thing to see from this chart is:
Glen Dorsey is NOT a bust!
|
Name |
Games Played/Started |
Sacks |
Tackles/Asst |
|
16/1 |
1 |
21/9 |
|
|
12/11 |
2.5 |
21/10 |
|
|
16/16 |
10.5 |
37/15 |
|
|
16/16 |
11.5 |
52/17 |
|
|
Jamaal Williams |
9/0 |
0 |
5/1 |
|
16/2 |
1 |
22/4 |
|
|
13/10 |
3 |
25/20 |
|
|
16/16 |
5.5 |
33/23 |
|
|
Rod Coleman |
3/0 |
0 |
1 |
|
13/1 |
6 |
16/4 |
|
|
16/0 |
0 |
21/4 |
|
|
16/16 |
6.5 |
40/7 |
|
|
16/11 |
2 |
27/7 |
|
|
16/16 |
7 |
36/8 |
|
|
16/8 |
3 |
17/10 |
|
|
15/14 |
9 |
41/10 |
|
|
La'roi Glover |
2/0 |
0 |
2/0 |
|
15/2 |
6.5 |
24/9 |
|
|
16/0 |
1 |
21/0 |
|
|
16/6 |
2 |
35/0 |
|
|
12/7 |
4 |
20/7 |
|
|
16/5 |
3.5 |
16/10 |
|
|
Darrell Russell |
16/10 |
3.5 |
35/9 |
|
16/16 |
10 |
56/8 |
|
|
8/3 |
2 |
16/8 |
|
|
16/15 |
8.5 |
31/12 |
|
|
John Randle |
16/0 |
1 |
21/0 |
|
16/8 |
9.5 |
58/0 |
|
|
16/16 |
6 |
45/4 |
|
|
12/12 |
6 |
25/3 |
|
|
Dana Stubblefield |
16/14 |
10.5 |
64/0 |
|
14/14 |
8.5 |
34/4 |
|
|
Chester McGlockton |
10/0 |
3 |
18/0 |
|
16/16 |
7 |
78/0 |
|
|
Eric Swann |
12/3 |
4 |
22/0 |
|
16/11 |
2 |
70/0 |
|
|
Cortez Kennedy |
16/2 |
1 |
48/0 |
|
16/6 |
6.5 |
73 |
|
|
Michael Dean Perry |
16/2 |
6 |
25/0 |
|
16/16 |
7 |
92/0 |
|
|
Ray Childress |
16/16 |
3.5 |
135/0 |
|
16/16 |
5 |
172/0 |
|
|
Jerome Browne |
12/8 |
4 |
? |
|
16/15 |
5 |
? |
|
|
Jerry Ball |
12/12 |
1 |
36/0 |
|
16/16 |
2 |
68/0 |
|
|
Dan Saleaumua |
9/0 |
2 |
16/0 |
|
16/0 |
2 |
11/0 |
|
|
Glen Dorsey |
16/16 |
1 |
32/14 |
|
? |
? |
? |
|
|
9/0 |
0 |
2/1 |
|
|
16/1 |
1 |
11/3 |
|
|
9/9 |
0 |
25/16 |
|
|
15/1 |
0 |
8/3 |
|
|
16/16 |
0 |
29/12 |
|
|
Tamba Hali |
16/16 |
8 |
45/16 |
|
16/16 |
7.5 |
46/12 |
|
|
1/0 |
0 |
0 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/0 |
1 |
8/1 |
|
|
14/0 |
0 |
5/1 |
|
|
Jared Allen |
15/10 |
9 |
28/2 |
|
16/15 |
11 |
50/7 |
|
|
12/0 |
0 |
11/3 |
|
|
15/0 |
.5 |
9/2 |
|
|
Montique Sharpe |
5/0 |
1 |
4/0 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
6/2 |
0 |
5/1 |
|
|
16/16 |
3 |
35/4 |
|
|
Eddie Freeman |
15/0 |
4 |
13/4 |
|
5/0 |
0 |
2/0 |
|
|
Eric Downing |
15/9 |
1.5 |
13/6 |
|
13/4 |
.5 |
10/4 |
|
|
Let go |
But |
Played |
|
|
5 yrs |
elsewhere |
|
|
|
2/0 |
0 |
0 |
|
|
12/0 |
0 |
0 |
|
|
Derrick Ransom |
7/0 |
0 |
1/0 |
|
10/0 |
1 |
1/0 |
|
|
13/2 |
2 |
17/4 |
|
|
14/13 |
4 |
29/4 |
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
4 recs |
26 comments
Comments
wow
I have no idea where all the jibberish came from!
by Zodeman on Jun 27, 2009 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol
That happened to me for every single post I’ve ever done. You should be able to edit out the garbage and everything should look fine. These wysiwyg editors have a tendency to add unnecessary garbage.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Jun 27, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
guess i really didn’t know about the edit feature!
You are not what you think you are, but WHAT you think, you ARE.
by Zodeman on Jun 27, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice post man
rec
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Jun 27, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know what zodeman?
your the man great post! and thank you for the anti trade Dorsey!
by tomahawk44 on Jun 27, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right...
It’s well known Defensive Linemen take two or three years to develope into what they are going to be, especially on the inside…
Not worried at all about Dorsey, was excited to have him when we drafted him and still excited to have him on our team.
by Chief Crazy on Jun 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
great stuff...
THANKS FOR THE GREAT READ!!! With the doldrums of summer in full bloom, it is so nice and enjoyable for such a good read…. And lets not forget the team that DORSEY has played with. With the new regime, so many variables have been addressed, that DORSEY is likely to have an outstanding year. And his future looks incredible. Being coached properly, and utilized at the proper position, we may yet see an outstanding football player develop. We may witness an ALL-PRO career take shape. How fun!!
by dinomight on Jun 27, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
man I am praying right now everynight that dorsey
turns out to be a stud .
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Jun 27, 2009 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Im not to worried ........
About Dorsey or any other players on this team. With our new GM and alot better coaching, i think this team make’s huge stride’s on the defensive side of the ball.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 27, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The defensive coaching is basically going to go from putrid to just below average. That’s a huge improvement, but an improvement that could’ve been much bigger.
As for Dorsey as a bust, no way on earth. He hasn’t had nearly enough time. It’s definitely possible, but the fact is that the kid has been misused, and I really don’t think he’ll be properly used under the new staff either.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 27, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe..........
I should have said better coach, but alot more attitude, and effort. I do agree with you on Dorsey, and i hope we dont let him go to waste! Im not going to lose faith because of the fact we are going to a 3-4, because they said we would be doing alot of different front’s and mixing it up. Dorsey will get he chance this year to prove if he has it or not. I think with the mix of young guys and good smart vet’s that our defense is going to bring it this year…………you say below average…………i say top #15 on defense and top#10 on defensive turnovers. So it is written……….. So let it be done.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 28, 2009 1:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
one of the few things we were outstanding at last year
Was causing turnovers. It was outrageous that we rarely put up points off of them. With improved defense, and an offense that can control the ball (run LJs legs off) we should be able to change that. I refuse to believe we will not be greatly improved this year.
You are not what you think you are, but WHAT you think, you ARE.
by Zodeman on Jun 28, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
‘Zona wasn’t even in the top half of the league on defense with the players they had and with the system intact for a couple of seasons. I’m a bit hesitant to believe that the staff can put together a top-half defense with the current roster in its first season.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 28, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think..........
If you took the team we have now along with the coach’s, and go back to last year we would have won 7 or 8 games more than we did last year. That means we would have been in the playoffs, so i feel pretty comfortable in saying, that this team will surprise alot of people this year with a big turn around. Our secondary has one more year under their belts,and should be one of the best in the league. If we can get presser and sacks on the QB, this defense should shine. Our offense now has it’s franchise QB (I HOPE) and L.J running with a point to prove, man im getting goose bumps just thinking about it. You dont have to have a bunch of big name players to be great, “just the right 53”.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 28, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no pass rush visible on the horizon, which is going to make it difficult to put on pressure and get sacks. What I’m saying is that the new coaches didn’t do anything even the least bit impressive on defense in Arizona last regular season, so it’s hard to see them doing much better in their first year of a rebuild with new, young personnel in KC.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 28, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With
Our new defensive schemes, it shouldnt be a problem getting presser on the QB, you should aways have 1 guy with a shot at the QB.
I think that Arizona’s “D” did a good job especially in the playoffs, hell they amost won the Super-Bowl.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offense, not the defense, carried AZ last season. An scheme doesn’y amount to much if the coaches are inept and/or refuse to adapt the defense to the personnel, rather than vice versa.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Those young guys your talking about especially the secondary are going to be one of the best groups in the NFL this year, barring injury’s.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been
One who didnt believe in the whole “WINNING ATTITUDE” thing, but i have to say that i was wrong. This team is a changed team, and just from interviews you can tell it, and when pre-season gets here you will see it. These guys have lost like 340 pounds just getting ready for the season, that for one should tell you something about the new coaching staff, and the players. Then you have M.Cassell saying he’s most impressed with L.J and his hard work,if that don’t get you excited nothing will.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 28, 2009 11:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Read
This article got me pumped to see what Dorsey can do at DE. I liked that article the other day that rated the top 7 DE’s and said that Dorsey had potential to be number 1 by 2010.
by zbschiefs on Jun 28, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've NEVER seen anyone call him a "bust"????
I have seen people who say that he does not fit well in a 3-4 system, or trade him while his value is still very high. I can’t find one post where people call him a bust?
by Muhammad.Ali.Gates on Jun 29, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
like the article says
It’s not just here. I could point out at least 5 people I’ve talked to personally in the last month who have said just that. And It has been said elsewhere as well. The opening lines of Gretz’s article I link to are:
If you are one of those people who said Glenn Dorsey was a bust as the Chiefs No. 1 draft pick last year, understand that the man in question has heard you.
If you say no one has said that explicitly, it is just a game of semantics. There are quite a few who lump him right in with the past busts we have had here, which is one of the main reasons I wrote this….to point out that judging any DT on first year is a bad tactic.
Additionally, everyone seems so worked up over whether he will fit in the 3-4, but the standard 3-4 set will probably not be used more than 30-40% of the time. There will be lots of opportunity for him to show his stuff this year. My personal opinion is people who keep on with the “he doesn’t fit we need to trade him” mantra are just flat wrong.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
by Zodeman on Jun 29, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I hope not AP members
some reservations ok , Bust in no way!
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 29, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would assume ...
if you want to trade him already he would be a bust atleast for Kc…Myself I am pulling for Dorsey is way away from a bust and is out to prove it this year
by tomahawk44 on Jun 29, 2009 7:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not Really?
He was drafted by a different GM, who had a different Coach, who ran a different System. Pioli has NO ties to Dorsey, & was set on running a 3-4 the ssecond he got here. I don’t think that would be called a bust. I think the trade value question comes in when as a GM do you want to pay a player $9mil a year who does not fit in your system. If Pioli and Haley like him they will make him fit, its as simple as that. But they both have NO ties to Dorsey. If they think they can make the team better with a valuable trade chip, I would not be shocked at all. In the end I would like to see Dorsey as an All-Pro DT for the Chiefs.
by Muhammad.Ali.Gates on Jun 29, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will actually agree with most of that
As I like to point out frequently, we now have the best personnel guy in the NFL. I will take his opinion on who is and who isn’t good. The thing I will truly agree with with is if someone gave the right compensation, there is not a player on the team that wouldn’t be traded. But I really think Dorsey will be here, and have a very good career.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
by Zodeman on Jun 29, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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