For those who think the Chiefs don't have a NT
by Dagda on Jun 2, 2009 4:08 PM CDT
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PrintJay Ratliff collected 7.5 sacks last year playing NT. As opposed to other NTs like Wilfork and Ngata, his responsibilities were 1 gap rather than 2. To my mind, it seems that against pass-heavy offenses, Tank Tyler could very well fulfill the same role as Ratliff does for the Cowboys. Against run-heavy teams, we could see the Chiefs rely more heavily on Ron Edwards, whose stoutness seems to favor him as a two-gapper.
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I guess I should mention that Ratliff weighs in at 296 lbs.
The Chiefs don’t need a behemoth at NT to make the 3-4 work for them.
Situational NT
That would be in game against Indy Tyler starts and against Oakland Edwards starts?
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
Dallas did it
With Ratliff and Tank Johnson
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Ron Edwards & Alfonso Boone
I wish these bums would have left with Herm
by KansasCityShuffle on Jun 2, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Boone will provide some depth on the line
He’s not a starter by any means but it’s not like we’re overwhelmed with defensive linemen right now.
He had one more solo tackle than Devard Darling...
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Jun 2, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahem…WIDE RECEIVER Devard Darling. Amazing, no?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 2, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to say
I think Tank Tyler can be NT, But wouldn’t it be nice to HAVE a another.
Injuries happen and Boone and Edwards aren’t Spring Chickens
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
Fresh legs off the bench.
I’m not as down on Boone or Edwards. I’m glad to see ‘em in the rotation. These are the kinds of players that see teams through bumps in the road during the season. Plus they’ve been at all the voluntaries, and the strength and conditioning program is aimed at the traits one most wants to see in 3-4 utility linemen.
Trade two seconds for Wilfork
problem solved
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I'd rather see the Chiefs develop their own
If all they do is overpay for other teams’ players, they’ll never get ahead. They’ll always be behind. I realize some positions, you do whatever you can (QB, for instance), and in a 3-4, nose tackles are at a premium, but I doubt that New England gives up a cornerstone of their defense for 2 2nd round selections. I just don’t see it being worth it.
Depends on how the youth movement is proceeding in New England.
New England drafted Ron Brace. If they think they can get it done with him starting or easing into starting over the season, Wilfork might not be all that valuable to the Patsies.
As for overpaying for other teams’ players, if anything, the Chiefs are a young team consisting primarily of players they brought in as rookies. If they spend every nickel of cap room on “other teams’ players,” they’ll still be primarily ’home-grown," it seems to me.
To me, a Wilfork move would say more about how Tyler and Edwards are NOT panning-out at the nose.
This isn’t EA Sports. Why would NE trade Wilfork? Furthermore, why would NE trade Wilfork for that little?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 2, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a UFA next year, so you never know.
You’re probably right in saying that it likely wouldn’t happen, but piss off with the patronizing Madden reference.
I’m not sure how it was patronization, but that’s not how it was intended. It’s just that people come up with these pie-in-the-sky answers like trading two seconds, when KC doesn’t even have two in the coming draft, for Vince Wilfork.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Ummm
We have our second round pick, and we have the one we got from the Falcons for Tony Gonzalez.
I’m not a fan of the idea of trading them away, because I think Tank can do the job; but we actually do have 2
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
LOL
Yeah this isn’t EA Sports.
If it was you would’ve had a nice screen telling you how many draft picks we had.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Jun 4, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Looking at Baltimore and New Englands depth charts
I noticed something interesting. Baltimore has 1 player listed as a true DE, and NE has no one listed as DE. They pretty much call everyone DT or DL. It might be just a terminology thing, but I think it’s a reflection of how versatile they expect their D-line to be.
I mention this because Ngata is a NT, but was playing DE his rookie year and was eventually moved inside with Kelly Gregg playing the weakside DE/DT position for Baltimore. I think this is indicative of what we might see this year from the Chiefs. With Tyler, Dorsey, Jackson, Boone, and Edwards, we will see a lot of change ups on the DL. To me this is the most exciting position to watch going into training camp, and it seems like it is the position group that has us the most confused right now.
+1, RedNose.
Pretty much how I see it. Anchor the middle with a mountain, and let the DT/DE ‘tweeners fight it out for the rest of the DL. Then throw Hali and McBride into the mix. McBride got a pretty darn good push from the left end spot. If the LBs had been doing anything sensible last year, there’d’ve been a LOT of mopping-up sacks. I guess what I’m saying, though, is even with McBride trying to make the switch, he might end up being an essential part of the rotation at one of the DE – uh – DL spots.
Just specamulation on my part. But that’s ‘bout all we have. Things are in more flux now than they’ve been in a long time. And likely most of our speculations will turn out off-the-mark – especially with my adding so many to the total. :o)
I don't understand the point about McBride and Hali
They aren’t defensive linemen for the Chiefs. They are linebackers. If they don’t make it as linebackers, they will see themselves unemployed.
Perhaps after this season
but if they’re horrible and not improving at LB as the season goes on, our coaching staff won’t just keep putting them out there at LB.
In my opinion, if we show a 5 man front, the difference between McBride in a 9 tech standing next to Jackson, or in 9 tech in a three point stance next to Jackson is moot as long as his responsibility is the same.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
If you're saying the responsibility is the same between positions
and then contending that they’ll switch him if he plays horribly, what makes you think standing or putting a hand in the ground will matter? You can’t have it both ways.
Read again
I said IF the responsibility is the same, it doesn’t matter to me whether they have their hands in the dirt (and we call them DE’s) or they are standing up (and we call them LB’s). If (regardless of whether they are in a 2-point or 3-point stance) their responsibility is C gap run control, or rushing the passer, etc. the discussion of whether they are LB’s or DE’s is purely semantic.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Then what was your point in suggesting McBride be switched?
if he plays horribly at LB?
McBride is NOT going to be moved back to end in the 3-4. If he plays horriby at LB, he’ll be cut.
I didn't suggest he'd be switched
my point was that how the players are labeled on the roster doesn’t mean a damn thing, it’s the roles on the field that matter.
If McBride (who played DT and DE in college) struggles at pass coverage, they won’t just keep putting him in there and making pass coverage his assignment. They’ll probably try to find a place to use him (which would likely be on the line – whether he’s labeled as a ‘LB’ or a ‘DE’), and then cut him in the offseason.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
To clarify
when a team that runs a 3-4 defense moves both OLB’s up on the line, it’s called a 5-2, even though there are not 5 guys labeled ‘DEFENSIVE LINEMAN’ on the field
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
No it isn't
A 5-2 is five guys with their hand in the dirt at the snap.
Thanks for the try, PVC. I'll take a stab, also.
My point is that I half-way suspect that McBride might end up at the 5-tech. Just a hunch, and I KNOW he’s working on OLB right now. I was going off of films I’d been watching recently. Yeah, he’s originally a LB/DE ’tweener, and those are LBs in the 3-4, typically, rather than DEs, but I think he also plays with a lot of power, and might end up in the rotation at one or both DE spots, with Magee.
I know that Hali’s also trying for OLB. But I’m not as cut-and-dried as you tend to be on the speculations, dagda.
My original “Hali and McBride into the mix” was in the context of STOUT OLBs, more than QUICK OLB. Talking about McBride at LDE was mostly thinking about him crushing the pocket from the LOLB spot, as part of the rotation on THAT side. But the same applies to ROLB. Exceptional push. From that, I kinda blurred to the speculation of McBride ending up in the interior 3, somehow, either due to struggles at LB or due to his being able to play stout the way the Chiefs want their interior 3 guys to play.
When things are in the air, this sort of blurriness is going to happen, especially to one with limited info, such as myself. I’m pretty good at making odd connections. Sometimes they’re just more “odd” than “connections.” No big. Keep your radar running and keep things honest!
Correction
I think in college Turk was a DT/DE tweener, not a DE/LB tweener.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
By "originally," I meant "originally to the NFL."
But his natural weight seems like 10 or 20 lbs heavier than Hali. But thanks for the correction. Re-reading my post, it could be taken to mean what you took it to mean, and I’ll defer to your college knowledge, in that I have little or none.
I guess what I was saying about McBride is he looks closer to the DL line than Hali, although both are still ‘tweeners. After the OTA strength and conditioning, maybe he’ll be playing with DL power and leverage. I know he recently said (basically) that he stiill thinks like a lineman.
i gotcha
and I agree…McBride is more a d-lineman than Hali is…his frame is bigger
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Tank Tyler...
Could have gone in the late first to early second round in 2007. The kid can play, he was just in the wrong system. NC State ran a 3-4 when he was there, just let him put a little bit of weight on, which for a Tank should be a problem.
PUT THE ARMOR ON TANK!
Not only did NC State run a 3-4
but Tank actually had a better year after DE Mario Williams went 1st overall in 2006
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Well yeah...
That’s like saying I’m going to get more points on the Chicago Bulls because Michael Jordan retired.
He means....
…. when you lose a great player then said players stats are spread around to other players after his departure.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I guess I'd want to know how NC State as a TEAM did.
But PVC is prob’ly thinking the way I do. Very wary of choosing players because they have a good year playing NEXT to the REALLY good player. Like choosing a Wisconsin RB, who made his name on the backs of their o-line.
I was just showing
that you can’t make the argument that Tank was only good in college because he had Mario Williams next to him, because he actually got better after Williams went to the Texans. (not that anyone was making that argument in this thread…it was a preemptive comment =) )
And I don’t think the Bulls comparison works. How great players affect their teammates is different in basketball and football. In football, you always have to worry about whether a great player made the guy next to him look better than he really was (see Peppers and Sims)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
Yeah, PVC.
And I was just throwing out things I’d look at in order to try to see whether or not it were a Peppers-Sims thing. MY knee-jerk reaction is to be very skeptical about college players whose stock was artificially raised by their teammates. So I was with you in spirit, with qualifiers.
Unfortunately, you have a lot of stats on what the other guys did
Where are the stats on what our guys did? Nothing, oh maybe that’s why we want Wilfork? It’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they have not shown they can do it. Yet anyway. Hopefully we find Tank or Ron are a monster and we don’t need to look outside, but we don’t hear that kind of information outside of GITMO North, do we?
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
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