For those who think the Chiefs don't have a NT
by Dagda on Jun 2, 2009 4:08 PM CDT
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Jay Ratliff collected 7.5 sacks last year playing NT. As opposed to other NTs like Wilfork and Ngata, his responsibilities were 1 gap rather than 2. To my mind, it seems that against pass-heavy offenses, Tank Tyler could very well fulfill the same role as Ratliff does for the Cowboys. Against run-heavy teams, we could see the Chiefs rely more heavily on Ron Edwards, whose stoutness seems to favor him as a two-gapper.
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I guess I should mention that Ratliff weighs in at 296 lbs.
The Chiefs don’t need a behemoth at NT to make the 3-4 work for them.
by Dagda on Jun 2, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Situational NT
That would be in game against Indy Tyler starts and against Oakland Edwards starts?
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 2, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas did it
With Ratliff and Tank Johnson
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Jun 2, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas plans on having situational Kickers this year!
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 2, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Edwards & Alfonso Boone
I wish these bums would have left with Herm
by KansasCityShuffle on Jun 2, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Boone will provide some depth on the line
He’s not a starter by any means but it’s not like we’re overwhelmed with defensive linemen right now.
by Joel Thorman on Jun 2, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Edwards is actually a pretty good pass rusher
by Vince D on Jun 2, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he have 10 last year.
Oh wait that was the whole team.
by saskwatch on Jun 2, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had one more solo tackle than Devard Darling...
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Jun 2, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem…WIDE RECEIVER Devard Darling. Amazing, no?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 2, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to say
I think Tank Tyler can be NT, But wouldn’t it be nice to HAVE a another.
Injuries happen and Boone and Edwards aren’t Spring Chickens
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 2, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fresh legs off the bench.
I’m not as down on Boone or Edwards. I’m glad to see ‘em in the rotation. These are the kinds of players that see teams through bumps in the road during the season. Plus they’ve been at all the voluntaries, and the strength and conditioning program is aimed at the traits one most wants to see in 3-4 utility linemen.
by hmills110 on Jun 4, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade two seconds for Wilfork
problem solved
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Jun 2, 2009 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That would give NE like 6 second round picks and would be the downfall of the NFL.
by GenericBrand on Jun 2, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's within the Rules, If the Chiefs better themselves and feel it is worth it NE can have 32 2nd's
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 2, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought there was a limit on the number of draft pick you can have.
by xfatdannx on Jun 4, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could they limit the number of picks you could aquire.
NE has 4-2nd I think at present or last year, not sure?
You get 1 pick per round and supps based on players lost as judged by league.
The problem is you have to fit your signing of all those picks into your CAP space and the NFL mandates how much they will allow per team, as I understand it.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 4, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see the Chiefs develop their own
If all they do is overpay for other teams’ players, they’ll never get ahead. They’ll always be behind. I realize some positions, you do whatever you can (QB, for instance), and in a 3-4, nose tackles are at a premium, but I doubt that New England gives up a cornerstone of their defense for 2 2nd round selections. I just don’t see it being worth it.
by Dagda on Jun 2, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how the youth movement is proceeding in New England.
New England drafted Ron Brace. If they think they can get it done with him starting or easing into starting over the season, Wilfork might not be all that valuable to the Patsies.
As for overpaying for other teams’ players, if anything, the Chiefs are a young team consisting primarily of players they brought in as rookies. If they spend every nickel of cap room on “other teams’ players,” they’ll still be primarily ’home-grown," it seems to me.
To me, a Wilfork move would say more about how Tyler and Edwards are NOT panning-out at the nose.
by hmills110 on Jun 2, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t EA Sports. Why would NE trade Wilfork? Furthermore, why would NE trade Wilfork for that little?
by burntorangehorn on Jun 2, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a UFA next year, so you never know.
You’re probably right in saying that it likely wouldn’t happen, but piss off with the patronizing Madden reference.
by RedNose on Jun 2, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure how it was patronization, but that’s not how it was intended. It’s just that people come up with these pie-in-the-sky answers like trading two seconds, when KC doesn’t even have two in the coming draft, for Vince Wilfork.
by burntorangehorn on Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
We have our second round pick, and we have the one we got from the Falcons for Tony Gonzalez.
I’m not a fan of the idea of trading them away, because I think Tank can do the job; but we actually do have 2
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jun 4, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isnt.........
EA Sports WTF !!!!!!!! Hell Denver got 2 firsts for Cutler, i thought it was!!
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 3, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats because these new GM's
are from the Madden era, no?
by fishhooks on Jun 3, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yeah this isn’t EA Sports.
If it was you would’ve had a nice screen telling you how many draft picks we had.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Jun 4, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at Baltimore and New Englands depth charts
I noticed something interesting. Baltimore has 1 player listed as a true DE, and NE has no one listed as DE. They pretty much call everyone DT or DL. It might be just a terminology thing, but I think it’s a reflection of how versatile they expect their D-line to be.
I mention this because Ngata is a NT, but was playing DE his rookie year and was eventually moved inside with Kelly Gregg playing the weakside DE/DT position for Baltimore. I think this is indicative of what we might see this year from the Chiefs. With Tyler, Dorsey, Jackson, Boone, and Edwards, we will see a lot of change ups on the DL. To me this is the most exciting position to watch going into training camp, and it seems like it is the position group that has us the most confused right now.
by RedNose on Jun 2, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1, RedNose.
Pretty much how I see it. Anchor the middle with a mountain, and let the DT/DE ‘tweeners fight it out for the rest of the DL. Then throw Hali and McBride into the mix. McBride got a pretty darn good push from the left end spot. If the LBs had been doing anything sensible last year, there’d’ve been a LOT of mopping-up sacks. I guess what I’m saying, though, is even with McBride trying to make the switch, he might end up being an essential part of the rotation at one of the DE – uh – DL spots.
Just specamulation on my part. But that’s ‘bout all we have. Things are in more flux now than they’ve been in a long time. And likely most of our speculations will turn out off-the-mark – especially with my adding so many to the total. :o)
by hmills110 on Jun 2, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand the point about McBride and Hali
They aren’t defensive linemen for the Chiefs. They are linebackers. If they don’t make it as linebackers, they will see themselves unemployed.
by Dagda on Jun 3, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps after this season
but if they’re horrible and not improving at LB as the season goes on, our coaching staff won’t just keep putting them out there at LB.
In my opinion, if we show a 5 man front, the difference between McBride in a 9 tech standing next to Jackson, or in 9 tech in a three point stance next to Jackson is moot as long as his responsibility is the same.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're saying the responsibility is the same between positions
and then contending that they’ll switch him if he plays horribly, what makes you think standing or putting a hand in the ground will matter? You can’t have it both ways.
by Dagda on Jun 3, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read again
I said IF the responsibility is the same, it doesn’t matter to me whether they have their hands in the dirt (and we call them DE’s) or they are standing up (and we call them LB’s). If (regardless of whether they are in a 2-point or 3-point stance) their responsibility is C gap run control, or rushing the passer, etc. the discussion of whether they are LB’s or DE’s is purely semantic.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 4, 2009 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then what was your point in suggesting McBride be switched?
if he plays horribly at LB?
McBride is NOT going to be moved back to end in the 3-4. If he plays horriby at LB, he’ll be cut.
by Dagda on Jun 4, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't suggest he'd be switched
my point was that how the players are labeled on the roster doesn’t mean a damn thing, it’s the roles on the field that matter.
If McBride (who played DT and DE in college) struggles at pass coverage, they won’t just keep putting him in there and making pass coverage his assignment. They’ll probably try to find a place to use him (which would likely be on the line – whether he’s labeled as a ‘LB’ or a ‘DE’), and then cut him in the offseason.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 4, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify
when a team that runs a 3-4 defense moves both OLB’s up on the line, it’s called a 5-2, even though there are not 5 guys labeled ‘DEFENSIVE LINEMAN’ on the field
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 4, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it isn't
A 5-2 is five guys with their hand in the dirt at the snap.
by Dagda on Jun 8, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the try, PVC. I'll take a stab, also.
My point is that I half-way suspect that McBride might end up at the 5-tech. Just a hunch, and I KNOW he’s working on OLB right now. I was going off of films I’d been watching recently. Yeah, he’s originally a LB/DE ’tweener, and those are LBs in the 3-4, typically, rather than DEs, but I think he also plays with a lot of power, and might end up in the rotation at one or both DE spots, with Magee.
I know that Hali’s also trying for OLB. But I’m not as cut-and-dried as you tend to be on the speculations, dagda.
My original “Hali and McBride into the mix” was in the context of STOUT OLBs, more than QUICK OLB. Talking about McBride at LDE was mostly thinking about him crushing the pocket from the LOLB spot, as part of the rotation on THAT side. But the same applies to ROLB. Exceptional push. From that, I kinda blurred to the speculation of McBride ending up in the interior 3, somehow, either due to struggles at LB or due to his being able to play stout the way the Chiefs want their interior 3 guys to play.
When things are in the air, this sort of blurriness is going to happen, especially to one with limited info, such as myself. I’m pretty good at making odd connections. Sometimes they’re just more “odd” than “connections.” No big. Keep your radar running and keep things honest!
by hmills110 on Jun 3, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
I think in college Turk was a DT/DE tweener, not a DE/LB tweener.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 4, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By "originally," I meant "originally to the NFL."
But his natural weight seems like 10 or 20 lbs heavier than Hali. But thanks for the correction. Re-reading my post, it could be taken to mean what you took it to mean, and I’ll defer to your college knowledge, in that I have little or none.
I guess what I was saying about McBride is he looks closer to the DL line than Hali, although both are still ‘tweeners. After the OTA strength and conditioning, maybe he’ll be playing with DL power and leverage. I know he recently said (basically) that he stiill thinks like a lineman.
by hmills110 on Jun 4, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i gotcha
and I agree…McBride is more a d-lineman than Hali is…his frame is bigger
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 5, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am less worried about it than most...
should be ok…still bad but yea
by woodman212 on Jun 3, 2009 12:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tank Tyler...
Could have gone in the late first to early second round in 2007. The kid can play, he was just in the wrong system. NC State ran a 3-4 when he was there, just let him put a little bit of weight on, which for a Tank should be a problem.
PUT THE ARMOR ON TANK!
by Dono on Jun 3, 2009 8:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not only did NC State run a 3-4
but Tank actually had a better year after DE Mario Williams went 1st overall in 2006
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah...
That’s like saying I’m going to get more points on the Chicago Bulls because Michael Jordan retired.
by Dono on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He means....
…. when you lose a great player then said players stats are spread around to other players after his departure.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Jun 3, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'd want to know how NC State as a TEAM did.
But PVC is prob’ly thinking the way I do. Very wary of choosing players because they have a good year playing NEXT to the REALLY good player. Like choosing a Wisconsin RB, who made his name on the backs of their o-line.
by hmills110 on Jun 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just showing
that you can’t make the argument that Tank was only good in college because he had Mario Williams next to him, because he actually got better after Williams went to the Texans. (not that anyone was making that argument in this thread…it was a preemptive comment =) )
And I don’t think the Bulls comparison works. How great players affect their teammates is different in basketball and football. In football, you always have to worry about whether a great player made the guy next to him look better than he really was (see Peppers and Sims)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 4, 2009 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, PVC.
And I was just throwing out things I’d look at in order to try to see whether or not it were a Peppers-Sims thing. MY knee-jerk reaction is to be very skeptical about college players whose stock was artificially raised by their teammates. So I was with you in spirit, with qualifiers.
by hmills110 on Jun 4, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, you have a lot of stats on what the other guys did
Where are the stats on what our guys did? Nothing, oh maybe that’s why we want Wilfork? It’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they have not shown they can do it. Yet anyway. Hopefully we find Tank or Ron are a monster and we don’t need to look outside, but we don’t hear that kind of information outside of GITMO North, do we?
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
by cpa913 on Jun 4, 2009 12:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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