Revisiting the Kansas City Chiefs 2006 Draft
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 4:34 PM CDT
in 2009 Offseason
145 comments
Back in February of last year, over the course of about ten days, I took a look back at the Kansas City Chiefs drafts from 2000 to 2005. I only went to 2005 because I wanted to be fair and stick with that maxim, you can only begin to judge a draft class three years after the fact.
And since we're now three years from the 2006 NFL draft and still in that draft mode (Sort of), let's take a look at it, shall we?
Remember, we're doing this exercise with hindsight in mind. We're not trying to give out grades based on our knowledge at the time.
Click here to check out the previous drafts I've gone back and examined.
P.S. Thanks for your patience as of late. Primetime has school stuff and I'm looking for new employment. Not the most conducive times for blogging. Keep up the great work in the FanPosts and FanShots.
Round 1, #20 DE Tamba Hali
Considered a reach at the time, Tamba Hali has hardly lived up to first round expectations. Even though his tackles have remained steady for the three years he's been in the NFL, Hali's sack numbers have dropped significantly since Jared Allen left for Minnesota.
Right now, Hali has even been lining up at linebacker in the Chiefs' mini-camps. His future as a defensive end is iffy at best. He loses points for not living up to expectations and being unable to perform without a superstar lining up opposite him.
Grade: D+
Could have had instead: RB Laurence Maroney, C Nick Mangold, RB Joseph Addai
Round 2, #54 S Bernard Pollard
I think Bernard Pollard gets a bad rap according to many Chiefs fans so I'm going to stick up for him now. I think he's played pretty well. Him and Jarrad Page have held down the safety position for three years running and don't really show any sign of letting up. Pollard has nearly 200 tackles in the last two years. His role will undoubtedly change as the Chiefs move to a combination of the 3-4 and the 4-3 defense but he's been a good pick so far.
Grade: B
Could have had instead: KR Devin Hester, RB Maurice Jones-Drew
Round 3, #85 QB Brodie Croyle
Croyle couldn't stay healthy even in high school and for some reason Herm Edwards and the Chiefs thought this guy was our quarterback of the future. I'll admit it - I was a Croyle supporter. Not a fan per se but I said let the man have his chance to see what he can do.
Perpetually injured, Croyle lived up to pretty much what most Chiefs fan said he would live up to - nothing. I give out tough grades for guys who aren't able to shake poor reputations about their play.
Grade:C-
Could have had instead: Nobody of note
Round 5, #154 CB Marcus Maxey
Marcus Maxey stuck around for a year in KC before getting cut. Pretty much an NFL bust however you want to define it. He came in with knowledge of the Chiefs' cover 2 scheme and couldn't hack it at all.
It's tough to give out too harsh a grade on Maxey because he was a fifth round pick but still...the guy has played in one career NFL game.
Grade: D-
Could have had instead: Nobody of note
Round 6, #186 OT Tre Stallings
Now we're getting deeper and deeper into the stages of the NFL draft where most players don't work out. Stallings has played in one career game and bounced around from a few practice squads, including the Chiefs' roster twice.
He gets a little credit for making it back on the roster after being cut and he gets a little help from coming from such a low draft position.
Grade: C-
Could have had instead: Nobody of note
Round 6, #190 WR Jeff Webb
I know everyone dislikes Jeff Webb for being pretty much a nobody but that's what happens to sixth round picks about 90% of the time, no?
Webb is at least still on the roster after three seasons and he's survived the initial Pioli purge. He's shown the occassional flash of talent but then he'll disappear for seasons at a time.
He gets a little grade bump for being drafted so low.
Grade: B
Could have had instead: DB Antoine Bethea
Round 7, #228 S Jarrad Page
A partial then full two-year starter in the seventh round? 'Nuff said.
Grade: A+
Could have had instead: Nobody of note
Overall Grade
This 2006 draft looks pretty dismal in hindsight. Hali looks to be headed nowhere beyond a weak side defensive end/linebacker. Brodie Croyle has dropped to #3 on the depth chart.
But...the Chiefs do have two solid starters in Page and Pollard (Possibly Hali) coming out of this draft. With the way the Chiefs have drafted in the last decade, that's sadly an accomplishment to applaud.
Grade: C (I know, does it get more generic than a C grade?)
Thoughts on the Kansas City Chiefs 2006 draft?
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If Hali plays well as a linebacker, I'll give it a B
If he stinks, I’ll give it a D
If you go out and you’re looking for the girl to wink at you and she hasn’t winked at you before 12 she isn’t going to. You might as well go home.
by craig in calgary on May 4, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Getting two starting safeties is big
and Hali was drafted 20th, so hes not that big of a bust seeing as he could still work out at linebacker. I would give this draft a B-
by SayHeyWerd on May 4, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Landing our Safety Duo for the next 8 years!!!
Not bad when you consider we landed three starters from the draft— even though Hali had a bad year last year, so did the entire defense so I’m not ready to give up on him.
As for Page and Pollard, I’m thrilled with what we got. Especially with Page, he’s a future pro-bowler.
by BigRedOne on May 4, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold up...
Did someone just give Brodie a C- and Jeff Webb a B? Really? I want you grading the final I have tonight.
I do not snort the coke I only smoke...sensimilla.
by HIV 2 Elway on May 4, 2009 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on
I’m not a Webb fan but he’s a 6th rounder who is still around.
There were ALWAYS questions about Croyle.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Croyle could still be a starting quarterback somewhere if he’d put on some weight. He has talent… he just can’t stay healthy.
by Vince D on May 4, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Later commentary, we'll allow it it... in the future this could easily be fixed with the following:
“I call …”
“We’re gonna go ahead and say that’s …”
“… total …”
“smells like … to me”
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on May 4, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short, concise
and the point. Why waste key strokes?
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed Shuffle
You’ve earned that right.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C to low B
If you can hit on four starters in each draft, you can revamp your roster every 5 to 6 years (the length of rookie contracts), constantly keeping it fresh and competitive. This particular draft we hit on 3 (Hali hasn’t been terrible as a left DE). If Webb would actually work out as a dependable receiver, I’d make this grade a solid B (but I have no hopes of that happening). And I’m still hoping Croyle can at least be a good scout-team QB and help make our defense better.
by Chiefs4Life on May 4, 2009 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I grade Croyle a D
And Tamba a C.
Croyle is a complete bust and waste of time and effort. The only reason I don’t give him an F is that he was a 3rd round pick. Otherwise the time we spent grooming him to be the QBOTF was wasted. If he had been a later round pick, I’d give him a less harsh grade.
Tamba hasn’t been as bad as you say even though he was a 1st round pick. I just feel like he has been played out of position more than anything. He works best as a stand-up pash-rusher (which he was used as more often when we had JA with his hand in the dirt on the other side). I think he will be much more productive in a predator role in this defense. If he doesn’t produce this year, then he’s a D. If he does produce this year, then he’s a C+ to me.
The Pollard & Page grades are spot on. I give Page an A++ for being arguably the best starter from that draft class while being the last pick in the draft. Both he and Pollard will be freed up much more in a non-Cover-2 defense (I want to see Pollard roaming and wreaking havoc in the backfield, too).
by DCJayhawk57 on May 4, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I give the 2006 draft an A
3 current starters and 2 other players still on roster.
Sure Croyle would have made the draft better.
a 4th and 5th rounder didn’t work out.
Hali would have no problem as 4-3 end at which he was drafted except we are changing the D.
I’m sure that 3 starters, 2 backups, and 2 busts is better than a lot of Chiefs drafts.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit
Hali a D+ & Croyle a C- ? I thought somebody covered here pretty well that Hali was the best pass rusher coming out of his class. I think he is either tied or a few sacks behind the leader (Wimbley?). How can he not live up to 1st round expectations when we all knew he was a reach?
Hali a solid C, Croyle a solid D
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hali
is still a good LDE. He’s just a terrible RDE. I think this year is really gonna test him.
by Vince D on May 4, 2009 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He would have been decent
at RDE if we had any semblance of a pass rush from anybody else….but we didn’t.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on May 4, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like linebackers?
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really tough for me to say
someone is a good pass rusher when they were on the worst pass rushing team of all time.
What nobody mentions about our sack record last year is that it didn’t even beat the 1982 Baltimore Colts…who only played 9 games that season!
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That one stings
Do we blame Herm for the Tampa 2 or Gun for his defense and linebackers? Or both
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how you can blame the Tampa 2
When its been succesfully run by many other teams.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rephrased
Do we blame Herm or Gun for the poor execution of the Tampa 2?
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how you can blame the Tampa 2
When its been succesfully run by many other teams.
But because of our total lack of stability at linebacker (as well as anything resembling NFL ability at that position sans DJ) we ran the worst possible version of the Cover 2 (we never ran the Tampa 2 because we never had the MLB who could get deep quickly enough…the Tampa 2 is really a Cover 3)
Our version of the Cover 2 had no interior pass rush, because we needed the DT’s to hold linemen off of our shitty LB’s
We couldn’t blitz a LB, because if we blitzed DJ, the other 2 fools would have to each cover half of the field in the short zone, and that’s a bit much to ask of Weston Dacus and Rocky Boiman (my god, were those seriously starting players on an NFL team?)
But we couldn’t blitz one of them and leave DJ because
1) The blitzer would likely run into the RB and fall down, and
2) Then DJ would have to cover the entire short zone while Dacus played with his own sack
SO basically, to make a long story short, on our Cover 2 involved rushing the QB with the 2 DE’s (one of whom was out of place the first part of the season, while the other was side was like a game of musical chairs played with hand-me-down asshats), dropping 7 guys into coverage, and praying that Cutler or Russel threw it to the guy in triple coverage, rather than one of the two guys who were wide open.
Frankly, I’m surprised we had as many sacks as we did =)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 4, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well that about sums that up
Keystone Cops anyone :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hand-Me-Down Asshats
+1
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I was going to say.
But I will add that it was not just our lack of stability at LB. The talented players on the team (except for DJ and JA) were generally miscast:
Kawika Mitchell: has the skills for WLB in a 344 package with 43 alignment. He was lined up at MLB in Cover 2 here.
Glenn Dorsey: has the skills for undertackle shaded to isolation in a 344 package with 52 alignment (3-tech.) . He played as NT in Cover 2.
Surtain: Man Cover guy who had to play zone here. Not that he can’t, just an unnecessary expense on unused talent.
Tamba Hali: 6’3’’ 275lb.: not really the guy you want on LDE
Not only that, but we did not have the personnel in general to run the Cover 2. The 7 guys in zone means that all pressure is generated by the front 4, meaning our DT must be dominating pass rushers and tacklers, we had:
Reed, Edwards, Boone (…) as well as equally less-than-ideal LDEs.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on May 5, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tamba Hali: 6’3’’ 275lb.: not really the guy you want on LDE*
- meant RDE
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on May 5, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed…and the coaching sure didn’t help. It seemed like every lineman except Jared Allen actually regressed under the tutelage of Karmelowicz and Krumrie.
by burntorangehorn on May 4, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Len Dawson:
"Lamar Hunt had a dream and, the thing is, we had dreams, too. Just imagine the number of people that he has touched because he said, 'I'm going after this dream."'
by smokin iowa chief on May 4, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Page and Pollard
Have saved this draft for me. For us. Both lived up to and surpassed expectations and I think will do even better freed up from the Cover 2. And Page being a Starter while drafted in the 7th? Awesome. Too bad other higher pics couldn’t rise to their respective potentials.
Croyle? Bahhh ain’t even going there. Waste of breadth that one is.
by Eastcoastransplant on May 4, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RB Laurence Maroney
No thanks. We’d bump Tamba to a C-
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on May 4, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hali
Career
TOTAL
Tackles 170
Solos 130
Assists 40
Sacks 18.5
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Only 2 players in Hali's draft class has more sacks so far...
Mario Williams – (1st Round – 1st Pick): - 30.5 Total Sacks -
Kamerion Wimbley – (2st Round – 13th Pick) - 20.0 Total Sacks -
If you break it out you will see that Hali just had a bad year last season…
2006 – 8 sacks
2007 – 7.5 sacks
2008 – 3 sacks
Even with his down season, can you tell me what player on our team had more sacks than Hali? Can you tell me who even had as many sacks (3) as Hali? Don’t worry if you can’t think of anyone beacuase there wasn’t.
Here is a look at who got how many of our 10 sacks / 20 fumbles last year…
Tamba Hali – 3 sacks (3 fumbles)
Derrick Johnson – 2 sacks (4 fumbles)
Jason Babin – 2 sacks (0 fumbles)
Glenn Dorsey – 1 sack (1 fumble)
Alfonso Boone – 1 sack ( 0 fumbles)
Ron Edwards – 1 sack (0 fumbles)
Bernard Pollard – 0 sacks (3 fumbles)
Jarred Page – 0 sacks (2 fumbles)
Brandon Flowers – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Rocky Boiman – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Demorrio Williams – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Turk McBride – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Jon McGraw – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Patrick Surtain – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Tyron Brackenridge – 0 sacks (1 fumble)
Not only was he playing out of position last year, but he did it on THAT team. I give him an “A++” when I consider all things. (Others in his draft class / the team he played on last year).
by KCChiefs on May 5, 2009 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edit to remove "--"
Mario Williams – (1st Round – 1st Pick): # 30.5 Total Sacks #
Kamerion Wimbley – (2st Round – 13th Pick) # 20.0 Total Sacks #
by KCChiefs on May 5, 2009 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danm my typo's
Kamerion Wimbley was a FIRST ROUND PICK (13 overall in the draft) and NOT a 2nd rounder.
by KCChiefs on May 5, 2009 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foote has officially been released by Pittsburgh
Could really help in the transition to a 3-4.
by Chiefs4Life on May 4, 2009 5:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder...
lf Pioli will look at this guy. I don’t know all that much about him so i can’t say all that much. Wonder if he could help us out?
by Wrestler189s on May 5, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think Tamba deserves a D just because of one bad season
The previous two years he had 8 sacks a season, which for a LDE is about what you expect. I don’t think where he was drafted is unreasonable for a LDE. The elite ones usually go in the top 10.
Yes, he had a horrible year last year, but it happens sometimes. Julius Peppers had a 2 sack season a couple years ago.
I’d give Hali a C+ just because of the bad year last year. If he had maintained the 8 sack average he had his first two years I’d give him a B.
Croyle had a ton of potential, the only reason he went in the 3rd round instead of the 1st is his injury history. We must remember that when they drafted Croyle, Trent Green was still healthy and playing well. They thought they had a couple years to let Croyle bulk up a bit and get his feet under him. They took a gamble on a QB that had potential in the 3rd round and it didn’t work out, but you can’t fault them for trying.
Getting three starters in one draft though, is pretty damn good. I don’t know how you can give it any lower than a B unless Hali has a repeat of last year. I tend to think that last year was an aberation for him though.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 5:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not so much one bad season
But in his third season, when he should be improving, he decreased dramatically. He’s shown that he can play decent with a superstar next to him.
Now that we’re moving to a 3-4, it makes this pick look even worse (though I wouldn’t grade him based on our switch to the 3-4).
by Joel Thorman on May 4, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His third season was a total waste as attempt at RDE put him out of position
I imagine Hali gave all his attention to doing that which the Chiefs asked of him.
I think Hali fits the Pioli type person and Pioli is trying to find a spot :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Hali is a Pioli type player
I just hope he can succeed as the predator or a pass-rushing OLB
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 4, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was Julius Peppers reason for only getting 2.5 sacks in his 6th season?
Tamba is never going to be THE guy. He never would have been put at RDE had the whole Jared Allen thing not gone down the way it did. If he WAS one of those elite guys, he would have been taken in the top 10 rather than 20th.
What we know is that he only had 3 sacks on a team that only had 10 sacks total the entire season. So is that all on Tamba, or is his dimished sacks also a result of a lack of pressure from all positions?
It does no good expecting him to be something he’s not. He’s a good Left End that can put some pressure on, force some fumbles and is good for about 8 sacks per season on the left side. It’s what he is. He’s never going to be the 12 sack a year guy Jared Allen was and its pretty clear from last year that he’s overmatched playing against the better linemen that play Left Tackle. But that’s OK. You need a Left DE too.
Now Tamba is wholly unsuited for the 3-4. He’s not nearly fast enough to play OLB and I honestly think the Chiefs should be trying to trade him to a good 4-3 team where he would play much better. But that Pioli and Haley have decided to ignore the players we currently have on the team to switch to their own brand of defense should not mark Hali as a failure.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Peppers
His 34.5 sacks the three years prior and 14.5 the following year made up for that.
But I’m getting your point on the Tamba issue, and agreed that he probably won’t be a 3-4 guy.
by Joel Thorman on May 4, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we need to find a NFC team for him to fit on
What do you think a conditional 2, straight 3rd or 4th and something.
A 4-3 LDE has to have a value?
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point about Peppers is
Tamba’s stats his first two years were very consistent. We are looking at the disaster last year as though that sums things up about him, but like Peppers, it is most likely an aberation.
A lot of people are saying “It’s Hali’s 3rd year so thats what he is going to be”, but that completely ignores what he did his first two.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is the 3-4 under
Someone on a 4-3 Line is going to be the odd-man out on a 3-4.
We drafted two 3-4 type ends and have depth at DT/NT.
Hali seems to be without a position or will be a backup to Tyson Jackson.
Does Hali have more value as a pick in draft or backup?
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hali is way too small to be a 3-4 DE
Those guys need have enough weight to them to hold their ground against a Guard.
Look at Tyson Jackson, around 296 lbs. Last training camp Tamba Hali was down to 255. Tamba would get eaten alive as a 3-4 DE.
But he is also not fast enough to play OLB. He’s a pure 4-3 DE and that really is the only place I see him fitting. Since we aren’t playing that, I think he has more value getting whatever picks we can for him.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not ready to declare
that Hali is not fast enough to play OLB…how many times a game does Merriman drop into pass coverage?
Hali can play OLB and his only responsibilities can be to rush the passer or cover the flat, and if you watch film of his backside pursuit, I think he appears fast enough for either of those two assignments
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 5, 2009 7:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree ChiefDJ.
1st. Hali has shown the ability to adapt to a new position when he switched from DT to DE.
2nd. A 4.8/ 40 is quite respectable at 275 lbs (curious what he runs at 255). Coming out of college, many experts remarked on his speed. He drew comparisons to Dwight Freeney in his ability to beat Tackles by running around them. So, I wouldn’t say he is slow.
3rd. PSU Def. Coord. Tom Bradley and LB Coach Vanderlinden run a pursuit defense out of the Eagle. Hali certainly has the ability to read and react to the pass.
4th. The suggestions that he would would not excel at DE or OLB in a 34 are both misnomers. At this point in time it appears KC has the personnel best suited for a defensive scheme which we are calling a 43 Under. However it looks as if they have the guys to run a 34 rotated defense as well.
If we go 34, we have 1 DT (Dorsey) and 1 DE (Hali) leftover with a hole at SOLB. Hali could probably fill the SOLB. If he shows less than capable coverage skills, the the two MLBs line up over the middle and you basically have Texas A&M’s “Wrecking Crew”. His coverage area might be too large for him to do well here. Not really the best option.
If we go 43, we have 1 DE (Hali) leftover with a hole again at SOLB. By rotating under, Hali could easily line up at SOLB with much more success than if he were the SOLB in 34. Here’s why.
(1) In this alignment, the SLB is the easiest of the 3 LB positions to fill and can be done so by guys of many body types.
(2) His potential blockers, reads, and area of responsibility are clearly defined.
(3) He must be strong and tall enough to deliver a punch up high on a TE.
(4) Must have the speed to get to the QB on passing downs.
(5) He will primarily be covering TEs on passing downs and here the most important attribute is speed and quickness.
(6) Strong tackler when defending the run. His speed will allow him to contain.
It Seems to me that Hali fits these attributes (especially 4,5,6) pretty clearly, whether he plays at 275 lbs. or 255 lbs.
Looking at KaloPhoenix’s look into the 43-Under, which I assume everyone is familiar with by now, the guy on the LE of the the Dline is the SLB. In this package, the SLB (aka Predator) plays a 6 or 9 technique, which is exactly where Hali played in the Eagle at Penn State (1st team All American, BIGTEN Championship). Granted, we would have him line up a few yards off the line, but this will only help in the coverage department. I think its a natural spot for him and would do very well.
Your main point is that he is best suited as a pure 43 end. This cannot be known until he is given a shot as a predator. If he can defend the pass against most TEs, he would be far more useful as a 43 Under SLB. If he shows no aptitude whatsoever towards the pass, on clear passing downs sub him on the line, one spot over as the LDE and go to nickel or sub in a more pure coverage LB at SLB.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on May 5, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 4.8 isn’t quite respectable for anyone but a big defensive tackle or offensive lineman. That said, Hali has a step that belies that workout time he had.
by burntorangehorn on May 5, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that some have said that the KaloPheonix drawing had
Line shifted wrong way.
You are saying that the Predator plays on strong side Left end of line
While drawing indicates Predator plays weak side or Right end of line.
Is that correct?
If Hali would play outside LB on left end with Tyson Jackson playing LDE
I would stand up and cheer. You get the best of both worlds on run D and can fudge the passing plays or Blitz. Hali should be able to cover most TE’s in NFL with some Safety help on the deeper passes or Go routes.
Just to make sure Vrabel would actually play on Right/Weak side? Alongside slightly to outside rear of Dorsey at 3-tech. Would this not make Dorsey sandwich on plays where Vrabel doesn’t crash line?
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 5, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you are right.
The WLB is called predator. I misspoke on that. Kalo did not have his LBs rotated the wrong way. He showed the 43 Under, while the opposite rotation (more men on the weak side), is the 43 Over.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on May 6, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coaching
I’m placing a good portion of last year’s defensive problems on the disconnect between Herm’s and Gun’s philosophies, Gun’s dual responsibility experiment, plus Gun’s demeanor going beyond tough and into disrepectful with the LBs. I think the LBs were confused and not committed to a scheme much of the time last year.
I’m just hoping that this year’s crop of defensive coaches yields a mastermind on the D side like we found with Gailey on the offensive side. And does it in a way that gets everybody on the same page. I have to believe a fair number of Pollard’s chase scenes were not his fault.
by sunny D on May 4, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Pollard
He’s chasing guys because he’s busting his ass trying to cover other guys blown assignments. The dude is all over the field and in on almost every play.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Our LBs and lack of a pass rush made our safeties look worse than they were.
by DCJayhawk57 on May 5, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry....where was Osi Umenyiora drafted?
Hali does deserve a C. He can make that a B- if he has a better season this year.
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on May 4, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Mathius Kiawanuka was drafted 30th
not sure if Umenyiora was drafted that same year
When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.
I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title
by madtheory on May 5, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about idiots
I used to read this site with the expectations that the site owners had some form of intelligence. However after reading this post i do believe I misjudged. Tamba a D+ and Pollard a B. Ha talk about morons. How many times have we seen Pollard trailing 5 – 10 yards behind a touchdown pass getting torched time after time. Yet when you compare Hali with other DE that have been drafted in that spot and he is very competitive. Talk about about a bunch of uneducated jokers.
by The Infection on May 4, 2009 5:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nice friendly comments
good use of constructive criticism,
witty banter,
and non-judgmental, non-offensive remarks
thanks for contributing…..
In case you need to ask, yeah I’m being sarcastic.
Thought I’d clarify.
by Eastcoastransplant on May 4, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
You need to be more respectful of people
Nobody appreciates a guy coming out of the blue calling others morons.
by ChiefDJ on May 4, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
Hell his name is infection tho and he only has 9 comments ever. Need we surprised?
by Eastcoastransplant on May 4, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
And he was complimenting our “young secondary” back in February. Wonder what changed.
by Joel Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it Page or Pollard...
that was missing tackles all the time last year…trying to take receivers heads off.
by ravenhawk on May 4, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw McGraw struggle as well.
I think the entire defense was in shambles. We were using no-names for linebackers (some impressed me quite a bit), and it seemed almost everyone on the defensive line was being used incorrectly.
I don’t see why Herm wasted Dorsey’s talents for getting in the backfield. It’s probably because we had no one else who could plug gaps and draw double teams. He’s super quick for a bigger guy—his role should be getting into the backfield.
I didn’t care for Tamba playing RDE either.
To be completely fair, Herm and Gun weren’t the only problems for last year’s defense. We did suffer from the injury bug quite a bit.
by SupremeChief on May 4, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injury bug falls on the coaching & training staff
thats one thing I will give Haley credit for – I know he’s going to work these guy’s asses off in training camps & the preseason. Our conditioning won’t be called into question this season where sadly that wasn’t the case last year. Injuries are apart of football and you gotta prepare for that by having depth which is something we simply didnt have.
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And isn't that Pollard as his avatar?
oops.
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct
perhaps ‘The Infection’ is trying some sort of meta-joke?
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 5, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your reasoning for calling us idiots
How many times have we seen Pollard trailing 5 – 10 yards behind a touchdown pass getting torched time after time.
I have no idea. How many?
Yet when you compare Hali with other DE that have been drafted in that spot and he is very competitive.
Like who? And have they regressed every like Hali?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but at least provide some sort of intelligent comment.
by Joel Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paper or plastic?
Is this the McGraw grocery bagger?
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on May 4, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to stretch a little here.
I actually think Pollard and Hali are both pretty good players. Hali was out of place for most of last year. Once he was moved back to his position, he snagged a few sacks. Good on the left side, terrible on the right. That’s okay, keep him in his natural position and call it an experiment gone wrong.
Pollard is in my opinion, one of the up and coming players on our defense. He is a hard playing, hard hitting safety who has shown a ton of potential. At the same time, I think when a receiver knows that Pollard is in the area, they are going to think twice before going over the middle for fear or getting their head knocked off. His fire and decision making ability make up for some of his lack of speed. I think the scheme of having the corners play such soft coverage has put the safeties in a bad position at times as well.
by Chiefsfan1970 on May 4, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus he's got some funky dance moves......ya... :)
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on May 5, 2009 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree Chiefsfan1970
that stupid Cover 2 crap, where you have your two fastest secondary players (the CB’s) covering the freakin’ flats is silly (unless of course, your two CB’s jam the WR’s at the line)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 5, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry everyone
The internet is full of these people. Not much we can do.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it becomes a repeat problem from the same person
I think there are ways to ban IP addresses
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 4, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that AP just shows up at their door
and sphifft, sphifft.
No more problem :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to PV, and Yes to Steve.
We are somewhat patient before the hit is called….usually.
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your pussy has got the wrong mouse AGAIN!
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call them idiots...
the site here is a place that like-minded fans can come to discuss the Kansas City Chiefs. Whether you agree or agree to disagree with ones opinion is more than open here.
Just bring the opinion and back it up with facts.
by ravenhawk on May 4, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how many....
times did we see Pollard knock people on their ass and making big plays when he was coming from the other side of the field?
If you are going to criticize people why don’t you start with yourself..bashing on other people is pretty sad when you do it through a keyboard bud. Grow up.
by Wrestler189s on May 5, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the history of our Drafts from 98 - 05
as per Prime’s numbers back in February, here’s the way I see it.
The contributing players we got from those drafts;
yr # of players Who
98 1 Warfield
99 2 Tait and Stills (Tait left after 4, Stills after 6)
00 2 Wesley and Dante (ahh the joystick, man I miss that action… :-)
01 2.5 Biesel, Blaylock and Harts (Harts only played limitedly for 3 seasons)
02 1 Scott Fujita
03 2 LJ and Kawika
04 1 Jared Allen
05 3 DJ, Surtain (traded for) and Colquitt.
So with that break down in terms of contributing players? We actually did a little better in 06 than in the previous 8 drafts! We had 3.5 – 4 contributing players depending on how Hali and Webb turn out. Or we might only have 2, which would put on on par with the others.
Here’s hoping the last two years can break that cycle and we can get some players that last and really develop into something we haven’t had in years of drafts – since 96 or so – where we had all of our top 5 pics pan out! Will that happen with 07, 08, or 09? Only time will tell I guess.
by Eastcoastransplant on May 4, 2009 6:06 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for the info
Maybe an A was more than 2006 deserved BUT an A compared to previous drafts.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW was there a change in the Scouting dept. in 2005 that allowed for some better Drafts?
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
thats when Herm came in. Dont think he brought any scouts with him. With his arrival marked an increased interest in youth and therefore a stronger focus on the draft
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His name was Herm Edwards.
Make fun of the guy for a lot of shit, but he always had a good knack at finding talent, IMO. Also, and I may be wrong, but I think that is also when Bill Kuharich took over as the #1 guy in the Draft room.
by rockchalk on May 4, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kuahrich was promoted in 2006
Not sure if it was in time for the 2006 draft or not.
by Joel Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can find
all the talent in the word but if you can’t coach them it does no good.
by bringbacktheglory on May 4, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With this info...
you have to consider the 2006 draft a success… worthy of a B today, with potential for an A if Hali thrives as a predator (which I believe he CAN)
Getting the starting safeties in one draft, and the corners in another has truly helped this franchise move forward with a strong young secondary.
Croyle is the only “bust” in this draft, as Stallings and maxey were late pick, developmental guys.
Hali can still be great, or at least very very good…
If he does, pencil in an “A” for 2006, to go with an “A” for 2008
If Jackson, Brown, Magee and company pan out… you’d have to say the chiefs are among the most successful drafting teams in the league over the past 3 years
by stagdsp on May 5, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Points taken on Hali
Except for the STD’s comments, I appreciate all of your input.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Completely forgot about Maxey
I remember him being the one guy in this draft I was genuinely excited about us taking at the time. One game? Damn.
That having been said, I always hated Croyle. Wanted him to succeed, since we invested a 3rd in him, but never held out any real hope. I just recall watching him at Alabama and thinking, “This guy has my same exact build.” And I wouldn’t last a day in the NFL.
by stag on May 4, 2009 6:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought this article was excellent
This next year will really tell us something about Hali – how good will he b the in the 3-4?
I don't have a girlfriend. I just know a lady who would be really mad if she heard me say that. -Mitch Hedberg
by mistamic on May 4, 2009 6:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not very
He may be more talented and versatile than we all realize, but I think Tamba’s size and skillset pretty much limits him to a 4-3 end and with his time here in KC we’ve verified thats on the left side. As I’ve stated on numerous occassions throughout numerous threads I don’t believe he has the speed or ability as a tackler to be a very effective OLB. His coverage skills have to be seriously questioned as a career lineman and overall he just seems like a bad fit to me. If that’s the case, what if last season WAS an abberation for him(as DJ stated & I agree with) and we switch to a 3-4 which he’s ill-suited for? I think it may be a career killer for him in KC and thats a shame because he’s one of my favorite players.
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pioli/Haley think he doesn't fit he will be traded.
Apparently they are unsure so far.
His trade value will plummet if they don’t decide soon.
As a 2006 draft pick, 3 yr Pro, starting his 4th season this year.
He has value to 4-3 D’s and 170 tackles and 18.5 sacks will help us get something.
Ideally, He could be a Sam or MIke LB. I don’t know that that Mike calling the Plays would be his forte.
Sam in 3-4 under would probably be best bet, but would end up as backup to Vrabel.
Then the money would become issue IMO.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may be willing to ignore the money issue for a season
if it looks like Hali could learn from Vrabel, and then take over when he retires.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 4, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be sweet if Hali can learn to stuff the run AND watch the flat
I dunno though
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awwww.
Why didn’t anyone tell me there was a party in this thread?
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 7:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Man, I miss all the fun.
What happen to The Infection? Somebody pay him a little visit?
Somebody get me a Royale with cheese!
by TheQ on May 4, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got infected...and couldn't blog anymore.....
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on May 5, 2009 6:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I wrote this post knowing how much room there was for debate.
With one exception, I’m glad we’re debating this like adults.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"...knowing how much room there was for debate"
That’s pretty much the blogmaster’s job, isn’t it? You do a great job of laying out different perspectives, often with ample stats/tables (thanks, primetime) and then refereeing. Hey! There’s a job for ya, Chris! Become an NFL referee!
by sunny D on May 4, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of Hochulis arms
equals two of mine.
by Chris Thorman on May 4, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be true
But you don’t have to be a weight room hero like Hochuli. Just lay guys out like DeFelice
by RedNose on May 4, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
Hali is one of those guys who has to have a supporting cast on the defensive line. I recall his first season in which he was absolutely spectacular for a rookie. After his production has steadily dropped season after season, I’m starting to wonder whether the injuries he has suffered (namely his foot) has prevented him from returning to the game 100%.
Hali is not a run stopper. Hopefully Pendergast will play Hali where his strengths lie—the guy has a lot of character. I’d hate to see him fail.
by SupremeChief on May 4, 2009 7:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think D+ is a little harsh on Hali.
I would give him a C-…I did say it was only a little harsh.
Last year really soured me on Hali. I don’t know how much is Hali’s fault, or Gun’s, or Herm’s,or Krumrie’s.
Our D Line was so bad last year, I can’t full accept that the first day picks of Dorsey, McBride, Tyler, and Hali were all busts of the magnitude to field the worst defensive line in NFL history without the coaching/scheme being a major factor.
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 7:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We had one (1) uno LB
and anybody we could scrape up, McBride got hurt and then there was well…. the coaching :(
Hali’s chain got yanked all season.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but,
The line was a wreck before any injuries, and Hali’s chain getting yanked all season reinforces the notion that the coaching/scheme was indeed a major factor.
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit was all crazy last season
We had Dorsey taking on double teams, Hali out of position, Pat Thomas out of position, John McGraw out of position, (DaJuan Morgan out of position when he played), DJ playing musical chairs at LB, and this is just off the top of my head. The more we look back on it I don’t care whose fault it was I’m just glad the parties responsible for it are now gone.
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday...and Janet. Actually, just Janet.
by DThomasReigns on May 4, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
New off-season to prepare properly for a new EVERYTHING.
At Least the team will be dressed in Red and White with an Arrowhead on their helmuts:)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me
if we pull some batshit crazy shenanigans and wear the road uniforms at the home opener vs. Oakland, remind me to set fire to Arrowhead =)
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 4, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine that pregame it will look like Arrowhead is on fire.
I think Napalm would be the only way to burn Arrowhead anyway.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's Jeff Webb?
Attn Todd Haley: "DO U WANNA FIGHT ME!?"
by KansasCityShuffle on May 4, 2009 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I sure liked what I saw from "The Krum"
on Hard Knocks. He’s a total hardass. I hope it was the defensive scheme which hindered his coaching of the defensive line. Herm was a HORRIBLE game day coach—he should stick to evaluating talent. He’s a pretty friendly guy, though.
by SupremeChief on May 4, 2009 7:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A hardass who doesn’t get results is still not a good coach.
by burntorangehorn on May 4, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering he had to work with a 7th round Brian Johnston and Gillberry as a DE rotation....
you fill in the blank.
by SupremeChief on May 5, 2009 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's gotta be a reason why Pioli and Haley kept him onboard.
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on May 5, 2009 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also had first-rounders Hali and Dorsey, second-rounder McBride, and third-rounder Tyler. Yet the only lineman who has ever performed at even a journeyman level under Krumrie was Allen.
by burntorangehorn on May 5, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both Dorsey and Hali were used incorrectly in the Cover 2.
We’ll see how it pans out with the scheme change.
by SupremeChief on May 6, 2009 3:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expectations and Grades
Rd Expectation
1 Star – Hali: disappointing first rounder, but a starter C+
2 Starter – Pollard: meets expectations, need fewer whiffs and continued growth B-
3 Trenches or take a chance- Croyle: D+
4/5 Hoping – Maxey: F
6/7 Gambling – Stallings: almost serviceable D+, Webb: almost visible C-, Page: jackpot! lucky 7 A
by sunny D on May 4, 2009 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My feelings on Drafted players after 3rd year
A – Starter
B – Solid backup
C – Still on Roster (Chance to produce)
D – Rd 4-7 Gone
F – Rd 1-3 Gone
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that way of looking at it.
And since it is an arbitrary grading system, I don’t want to muck it up too much, but I would add that having a great, game changing player should warrant a seperate grade than a starter. Maybe A+.
If we’re speaking generally, I think good drafts should be considered ones that net 2-3 dependable players for at least 4 years. Injuries, contract issues and coaching changes make anything more than 4 years of effective service completely unpredictable.
That said, I feel Herm/Kuharich got us 3 “good” drafts. What seems to be missing are the great players. Under the right team philosophy good players will be put in a position to maximize their potential, but there need to be great players to take it to the next level. That’s where the Herm drafts are still uncertain.
Players on the roster that I believe have the potential to be great:
Brandon Albert
Glen Dorsey
Dwayne Bowe
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers
*Hopefully Matt Cassel, though I’m unsure of that greatness potential at this point.
After that, there are a lot of players who can be really good if put in the right position with great players as the anchors. From the ’06 draft:
Hali
Pollard
Page
Webb, I think, can still contribute to this teams success, but I’m not betting my recess money on it.
by RedNose on May 4, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
You summed it up better than I :)
Cassel would be a difficult grade. For NE I would imagine he was a B and turned into an A with trade to Chiefs as he served as Insurance and then produced and then netted a 2nd rd pick.
Bowe and Dorsey could become Stars.
Albert, Flowers, and Carr will hopefully provide a solid core with Pollard and Page. Hopefully Hali will suprise us all :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 4, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked your rating system
The way the NFL is, tons of 1st rounders will be marginal players. I don’t think you can call them much less than a C if they’re on the roster after 4 years and contributing to the team in some way. On the other end, you can’t rate a draft by the 4th-7th rounders who don’t pan out. They’re long range 3’s, not slam dunks.
by RedNose on May 4, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential to be great
I realize we’re not waiting the requisite three years, but Albert and Bowe have already shown me enough to give them As. (And Cassel will be good for Bowe’s concentration, I think.) I am almost ready to give Flowers and Carr As, as well. I know I actually have more faith in them than Pollard and Page for some reason. I’ve got to believe that Dorsey did what he was asked to do last year, and will become more dominant as it appears the good D lineman do after 2 or 3 yeras.
Players on the roster that I believe have the potential to be great:
Brandon Albert
Glen Dorsey
Dwayne Bowe
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers
Good points, Rednose.
by sunny D on May 4, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, I have very little doubt that Dorsey will be a really good player
If not this year, then next year. D lineman always take a while.
by RedNose on May 5, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like the simplicity
of your grading scale, Steve.
by sunny D on May 4, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes---nice post
I remember early on after that draft, the only ones Herm had any praise for was the two safetys. Pretty much stayed that way. I’m hoping Hali can make it as a linebacker. That troublemaker sure named himself correctly didn’t he———————all the joy of a virus.
by route 66 on May 4, 2009 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hated that draft class....
Maxey, Stallings…ughhhhh so depressing…
But Page saves it I guess…
by woodman212 on May 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We need to be realistic
I think you guys are being way to harsh. How do you expect any of the players to perform when we had so many coaching changes and so much turmoil. Hali has done well. He has been injured too. I think 75% of the fault in Hali’s, Dorsey’s and Tank’s cases belongs to the coaching staff. I like that he never gives up on a play. Jared was great, but he never played the run. He always went for the home run and teams just kept running his way. Why doesn’t anyone like to remember that?
by ALR on May 5, 2009 12:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
he did play much better against the run in his contract season
In fact, I think that played into his demand for the biggest defensive contract in NFL history.
Had he not improved against the run, I don’t think he could have commanded the salary he did
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on May 5, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had no idea Page was a 7th round pick
that is amazing
by TrailBlazerChief on May 5, 2009 5:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft Value Points)
Using this, hope it is the standard
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670
My thought is, you really have to re-draft these guys and think about the value won or lost by the difference between where they were picked and where you would be ok with taking them today.
Hali = D (850 draft value points)
It was a reach at the time, and he is a below average starter. Think objectively, our Defense sucks and he is in one of the prime skill positions to make it better.
Re-draft = Low 2nd round, 300 points
Difference = -550 points
Pollard = C (360 points)
Starter in the second round who is also average player, nothing spectacular.
Re-draft = Take him here again
Difference = 0
Croyle = C (165 points)
You can’t really blame the Chiefs for the guy getting injured constantly, if anything blame the lack of Offensive Line last year. 3rd round pick for a guy with a great arm who just didn’t pan out? I don’t see it as a bad pick in retrospect. You have to try to get a QBOTF at some point. I see this a decent gamble. Rather try this versus taking a backup/Tight End of the Future…
Re-draft = Take him here again, assuming he is your capable backup
Difference = 0
Maxey/Stallings = F (30.8 and 18 pionts)
I don’t expect anything out of 5-7 rounders. I am guessing the bust rate on those is 75% or so. However, let’s face it they didn’t play.
Re-draft = UDFA’s
Difference = -48.8 points
Webb = C ( 16.4 points)
He’s played a bit on special teams.
Re-draft = Take him here again
Difference = 0 points
Page = A (2.6 points)
Starter in Rd 7, obvious grade.
Re-draft = Low second = 300 points
Difference = + 297.4 points
The total difference then is -301.4, which is about a low second rounder.
Maybe you make Page a mid-second rounder but that would only get you to being down about 150 points.
My conclusion then is this is a below average draft, unless we had some UDFA’s make up the slack or trades that gave us the value back.
Curious what folks think of this. There would also be a way to look at it of total value. i.e. how the Chiefs were A+ on every grade for last year simply because of the number of high picks they had.
by kc- on May 5, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Objectivity
You see a player one way others see him differently.
I for one think that Pollard has performed at a NFL level for a Starting Safety.
The Chiefs I think placed a 2nd Rd Tender on Page this year, Because they want to keep him.
Was the tender too high as no one tried to sign him? I dunno.
I imagine that the Chiefs will put at Min a 2nd Rd tender on Pollard, and probably Hali, next year.
Pioli I imagine has these guys slotted already. The whole CAP thing. Maybe the money this year he is saving is to resign Page. Pollard, and Hali. Money for Cassell. Money to resign DJ.
Re-drafting seems to me a stretch based on the fact as this year. We had to take Jackson at #3 because we could’nt get him otherwise. Sorry for the rambling post. Just another opinion :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on May 5, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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