And with the #33 Pick in the Arrowhead Pride Community Mock Draft, the Detroit Lions Select...
by Chris Thorman on Apr 8, 2009 11:44 AM CDT
in 2009 AP Mock Draft
58 comments
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Connecticut CB Darius Butler |
UCrawford with the pick...
One of the good things about having the worst defense in the NFL last season is that when the draft rolls around it's a lot easier to find players to fit needs without having to reach. And that's definitely a good thing for the Lions this year because the cornerback position is certainly a need.
Last year, uber-flop GM Matt Millen traded away Detroit's promising but underachieving and disgruntled defensive tackle, Shaun Rogers, in order to upgrade the secondary with Cleveland CB Leigh Bodden. Like so many other Millen moves in Detroit, it was a miserable failure. Bodden got all of one interception in a defensive scheme he was reportedly ill-suited to play in although much of that could be attributed to Detroit's weak front seven), the Detroit pass D was the worst in the league, and Bodden was cut by the team in February. The Lions brought in free agents Phillip Buchanon and Eric King this offseason to fill holes, but neither of them have established themselves as top-notch starters in the NFL, and former Dallas Cowboys CB Anthony Henry (acquired in trade for QB Jon Kitna) looks to be moved to one of the safety positions this year to compensate for declining athleticism and coverage kills. And while the Lions still have problems on the defensive line especially with the trade of Cory Redding), there aren't too many players available right now that fit what the Lions need who aren't a reach. With the Lions planning to run a 3-4 base D in 2009 Missouri DT Evander Hood is undersized, #4 rated DT Ron Brace (who fits the 3-4) is a reach, and Tennessee DE Robert Ayers was a one-year starter who posted all of three sacks for the Volunteers in 2008 which positively reeks of bust potential.
So Darius Butler, a CB with good speed and decent size, immediately gets slotted into the Lions' secondary, likely as a starter to try and replace the long-departed Dre’ Bly as the Lions' shutdown corner, which should give the Lions a decent defensive backfield for the 2009 season and a fighting chance at countering other teams' passing games.
| Pick | Round 2 | Selection | Date | Approval Rating |
| 1(33) | Detroit Lions - UCrawford | CB Darius Butler |
Weds., April 8th | |
| 2(34) | New England Patriots (From Kansas City) - connerman | Weds., April 8th | ||
| 3(35) | St. Louis Rams - Lanier63 | Thursday, April 9th | ||
| 4(36) | Cleveland Browns - HIV2Elway | Thursday, April 9th | ||
| 5(37) | Seattle Seahawks - mikvogel | Friday, April 10th | ||
| 6(38) | Cincinnati Bengals - mistamic | Friday, April 10th | ||
| 7(39) | Jacksonville Jaguars - DThomasReigns | Monday, April 13th | ||
| 8(40) | Oakland Raiders - mushin | Monday, April 13th | ||
| 9(41) | Green Bay Packers - JasonM | Tuesday, April 14th | ||
| 10(42) | Buffalo Bills - ArrowDread | Tuesday, April 14th | ||
| 11(43) | San Francisco 49ers - Harry Feltersnatch | Weds. April 15th | ||
| 12(44) | Miami Dolphins (From Washington) - shraggyj | Weds. April 15th | ||
| 13(45) | New York Giants (From New Orleans) - ChiefsFan90s | Thursday, April 16th | ||
| 14(46) | Houston Texans - ChiefsDude | Thursday, April 16th | ||
| 15(47) | New England Patriots (From San Diego) - connerman | Friday, April 17th | ||
| 16(48) | Denver Broncos (From Texans) - Keyser Sose | Friday, April 17th | ||
| 17(49) | Chicago Bears - Holmeslice | Monday, April 20th | ||
| 18(50) | Cleveland Browns (From Tampa Bay) - HIV2Elway | Monday, April 20th | ||
| 19(51) | Dallas Cowboys - chiefsfan1384 |
Monday, April 20th | ||
| 20(52) | New York Jets - NJChief | Tuesday, April 21st | ||
| 21(53) | Philadelphia Eagles - Chiefsfan717 | Tuesday, April 21st | ||
| 22(54) | Minnesota Vikings - kcsno56 | Tuesday, April 21st | ||
| 23(55) | Atlanta Falcons - RedNose | Weds. April 22nd | ||
| 24(56) | Miami Dolphins - shraggyj | Weds. April 22nd | ||
| 25(57) | Baltimore Ravens - Ben S | Weds. April 22nd | ||
| 26(58) | New England Patriots - connerman | Thursday, April 23rd | ||
| 27(59) | Carolina Panthers - 808NaNz808 | Thursday, April 23rd | ||
| 28(60) | New York Giants - ChiefsFan90s | Thursday, April 23rd | ||
| 29(61) | Indianapolis Colts - craig in calgary | Friday, April 24th | ||
| 30(62) | Tennessee Titans - Lvl.99 | Friday, April 24th | ||
| 31(63) | Arizona Cardinals - THE_TRUTH | Friday, April 24th | ||
| 32(64) | Pittsburgh Steelers - McWhirt33 | Friday, April 24th |
0 recs |
58 comments
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I'm UCrawford...
…and I approve this pick.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Way to get the conversation rolling
If last year was any indicator, the discussion of the round 2 picks was a lot lighter than round 1.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 8, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happened This Year Too
As we went through the first round, the comments dropped off the later it got. Everyone’s interested in talking about the top guys, but run out of things to say as the players are a little less well-known.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
That’s “coverage skills” (or even skillz, if you must), not “kills”.
Nice job of butchering my writing, Chris :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does this guy compare to Flowers?
Since they were taken at similar spots.
by HIV 2 Elway on Apr 8, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good pick
The Lions end up with three players deserving of a 1st Round pick after the first day. This proves it! Matt Millen is officially gone.
by ChiefsFan90s on Apr 8, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just One Question
Who is the Lions’ QB of the future?
by ChiefsFan90s on Apr 8, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably Not On The Roster
They’ll have a better QB class next year and I suspect that the Lions will grab one then if they don’t this season. Or they’ll snag a project further down the draft.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got Detroit
It’s like making eggs…you can’t really screw it up as long as you pick one of the best players on the board :)
Good pick.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 12:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Like Making Eggs?
You mean, like actually having sex with a chicken with the intent of creating eggs?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, not what I meant, but if you're into that then whatever floats your boat j/k :)
You can’t screw up eggs…you can’t screw up Detroit with what Millen left behind.
You could go with a kicker and it’d be a good pick…ok, exaggerating
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, It's A Bare Cupboard On Defense
On offense, they’ve got a promising running back and a stellar wide receiver, but that’s about it. They need everything except RB, WR and kicker (since they’ve still got Jason Hanson).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...the only bonus for them is the fact that they screwed Dallas over for a bunch of trades, so they have the opportunity to build sooner than later.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Troy Aikman Said It Best
If Roy Williams doesn’t work out as the primary receiver, that shows some major problems with Dallas’ scouting department.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
It could potentially rank on a lot of top ten lists for “worst trade ever” (although it will never beat the Herschel Walker trade…nothing will ever beat the Herschel Walker trade).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rank the Walker trade #1 and the Saints draft picks for Ricky Williams a #2
Falcons: Tim Dwight and LT --for Vick
Colts trade of Elway to Bronco’s
Faulk to STL from Colts
just to name a few
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Far As I'm Concerned
The Herschel Walker trade was the worst trade in the history of professional sports (at least in the U.S….I suppose it’s conceiveable that other countries have had worse trades I’ve never heard of, but it’s hard to believe). That trade both built the Cowboys dynasty and crippled the Vikings franchise for the better part of a decade.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not debating that UC...I'm agreeing
I’m also stating some less remembered (probably due to time passing) trades/acquisitions that weren’t too intelligent.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Know
I was just emphasizing to preemptively shoot down “no it wasn’t” arguments from others. :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Fairness To The Colts
They had no choice with Elway…he refused to play for the Colts and had the option of going to play pro baseball (he was in the Yankees’ farm system), so they had to trade him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
They got Chris Hinton and a first round pick (which they used to draft Ron Solt) for him. Hinton was an outstanding LT (six Pro Bowls with the Colts), who was later sent to Atlanta in the tradeup for the Colts to acquire Jeff George (consequently destroying the Colts’ offensive line), where he went to another Pro Bowl and played good football for three more years.
So they didn’t do too badly, considering it was a trade of desperation. The biggest problem was that they burned the first rounder on Solt and he was just an okay player.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...but
I udnerstand your point, but I would’ve sat his butt for the year. Prima-donna’s like this shouold be sat (including Manning when the Chargers got him).
I think players like that do more harm than good to the draft process.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They Couldn't
Elway told them that if they didn’t trade him, he’d just stick with pro baseball and give up football. The Colts had absolutely no leverage with him.
And it’s not really worth getting into the pissing contest with them anyway, as evidenced byt eh deals they got. The Colts got good value in return for Elway (it would have been a great trade if they hadn’t traded Hinton to move up to draft Jeff George, who was a reach at #1). And the Chargers ripped the Giants off IMO…Rivers is a better QB than Manning and the trade also let them add Shawne Merriman.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
It would have been a great trade for the Colts if they hadn’t traded Hinton and Andre Rison in order to move up to draft Jeff George.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Draft Picks
They gave up a Pro Bowl LT, a Pro Bowl WR, and draft picks to move up to draft Jeff George.
Now that trade should be in the top ten worst in the NFL.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again,
I’ll reiterate the same thing I’ve said before. It’s a draft. The team earns a spot. It’s their prerogitive to either trade that spot or go with a player.
When I see whiners moan and groan about a team picking them, it takes away from the whole concept of having a draft. The draft is about giving the opportunity to make lesser teams better as well as enhancing the entire NFL as a whole. If the teams screw up their picks, so be it. However, a player crying about the team and not getting his way is absolutely wrong IMO.
The Elway pick was a good pick for the Colts. IMHO, if a player refuses to play for a team that picked him in a spot, I’d give him a 5 year sit-down. I could’ve cared less if he had the opportunity to play baseball, I would’ve sat him in the NFL.
This leads to nothing more than top players saying “screw Detroit (or insert team name here)”, I’m going with another team even if they pick me, and if they don’t I’ll sit out.
Fine asswipe, sit down.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Are You, A Communist?
If John Elway didn’t want to play for a pathetic team like the Bob Irsay-era Colts, it was within his rights to. It wasn’t the Soviet Union…he was completely free to play or not play football. He wasn’t required to sign a contract. He had a pro baseball career he could follow anyway. And frankly, nobody wanted to play for the Colts. Bob Irsay sucked.
The Elway pick was a good pick for the Colts.
No it wasn’t…because the player didn’t want to play for them, and because they had little to no leverage to make him play for them because he already had a pro baseball career going on. It was a mind-bogglingly stupid pick by the Colts. Which was par for the course under Bob Irsay.
IMHO, if a player refuses to play for a team that picked him in a spot, I’d give him a 5 year sit-down.
John Elway: “Right then…smell you later, Bob. Have fun getting over that wasted draft pick while I’m pitching for the Yankees. Screw the NFL.”
And the advantage to Bob Irsay in doing that versus trading Elway would have been what?
This leads to nothing more than top players saying "screw Detroit (or insert team name here)", I’m going with another team even if they pick me, and if they don’t I’ll sit out.
Unless of course they don’t have pro baseball careers or a degree from Stanford to fall back on.
You do realize that not all players have the same leverage, right? :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Frankly
The NFL draft is the perfect example of why communism looks so great on paper and sucks in real life.
“From each according to his ability to each according to his need.” The practical aspect of which is that not everyone has the same needs, not all of the goods and services being distributed fit the needs of the person receiving them at the appointed time (draft position) they’re able to get them, so you tend to get a really crappy distribution system (exemplified by the high bust rate) that achieve the desired goal (putting the best possible product on the field for the entire NFL) because they’re being denied the necessary material to rebuild or overpaying due to the scarcity created by the rationing system of the draft..
Basically, the NFL would be a better program if they just scrapped the draft altogether and let everyone bid on the college kids each year who made themselves available.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
so you tend to get a really crappy distribution system (exemplified by the high bust rate) that doesn’t achieve the desired goal
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Are You, A Communist?
No, attack the argument, not the writer. That’s offensive and you should know better being a “moderator” on this board…or more like an “extremist” in this case.
If John Elway didn’t want to play for a pathetic team like the Bob Irsay-era Colts, it was within his rights to….he was completely free to play or not play football.
Exactly my point and that includes Eli Manning as well. If I was the NFL, I’d sit down babies for 5 years for not playing by the NFL draft rules set up for all 32 NFL teams.
Just because a player wants to play or doesn’t want to play for a certain team doesn’t give them the right to screw over all those other players, teams and rules set -up for the draft.
By your standards we shouldn’t even have a draft or draft order since everyone can just throw their hands up and say “I don’t want to play there, screw you”. The rules are imposed for a reason and comparing sports to communism is just ludicrous.
You know better than that.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Should Have Included A Smiley Face After My Headline
Friendly sarcasm was the intent. :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry About That
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood...thanks for the clarification
Communism is a sore spot with me. Being a first generation naturalized citizen and having had the opportunity to travel to many countries, I’ve came to the realization early on that although our country does have it’s problems it’s still the one I’d prefer over all the rest….bar none.
Not to mention that the Communists weren’t very kind to my family (that’s putting it VERY mildly), and my posthumous friends but that’s a topic for another board.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry About That
Didn’t know…or if you mentioned it before I forgot.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As For Eli And Elway
Again, where is the advantage to a team in getting in refusing to trade away a player who doesn’t want to play for them, who they have no leverage to force into signing a contract, and who represents zero return for them on their draft pick if they keep him on the roster on this “5 year suspension”? :)
Fans don’t buy tickets because owners stick to their principles in contract negotiations…they buy tickets to see competitive teams, and letting Elway rot or go play baseball just so the owner doesn’t have to admit he made a bad draft pick and it blew up in his face isn’t a principle. It’s just stupidity and no one wants to pay to see that.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your argument
However, having said that (and keep an open mind here), the focus that I have on the draft is that it makes the teams more competitive (if you don’t have Millen ;) )…or make bad choices.
The issue I have is the “better than thou” attitude some of these players portray before even taking a snap in the NFL (see first round busts).
I take issue with how these choices/comments from players reflect not only on the teams but also on the respective fans bases. If Elway and Eli didn’t have the SB success’ that they had and we were talking about Leaf, I don’t think people would be so adamant.
I still think that Elway was a good pick because in hindsight he would have been an asset on any NFL team (blech, need to wash my mouth out). Even with the Bronco’s, his career only garnered 2 SB wins (3 appearances) from arguably one of the best QB’s in the league. So saying that it was a bad choice on the owners part IMHO isn’t necessarily true. There’s no way to tell whether he would have won SB’s for the Colts, but their mgmt. didn’t do so bad post Elway in that regard.
All I’m saying was that Elways and Eli’s attitude was in poor taste in reflection on the other players on the board and the drafting rules are in place to make it as fair as possible.
Just my .02
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I See Yours As Well
the focus that I have on the draft is that it makes the teams more competitive
Only if you accept the premise that the draft is clearly the best method of distributing players to teams. I don’t accept that. I think it’s a very inefficient and flawed method of building teams.
The issue I have is the "better than thou" attitude some of these players portray before even taking a snap in the NFL (see first round busts).
Did you ever consider that maybe the reason for the high bust rate is that the draft system forces teams to draft players who don’t fit their schemes because those players are the “BPA” by a wide margin?
See, I don’t view Elway as being unbelievably arrogant in his holdout…I see Elway as a guy who realized that he’d end up being miserable if he signed with Indianapolis (just like Jeff George was) because the team was chronically mismanaged, so since he didn’t need to sign a contract with them because he had baseball to fall back on decided to tell Irsay to go fuck himself. And that’s his right…it’s not his fault the NFL had/has a crappy system of player distribution that Elway was lucky enough not to be held hostage to.
I take issue with how these choices/comments from players reflect not only on the teams but also on the respective fans bases.
When a player engages in a contract holdout, he’s not actually spitting on the fan base…he’s engaging in a business negotiation for his paycheck, same as a great number of fans do at their jobs. The fans have nothing to do with it…same as I’m not being personally insulted if workers at Toyota get into disputes with the company over their wages. If some fans, honestly, feel that what Elway did somehow reflects on them personally, then those fans need to get a life because they’ve obviously lost touch with reality if they think the contract negotiations of total strangers as part of a business they have no ownership stake in has anything to do with them personally.
By way of example, do I get bothered by Larry Johnson bitching about his contract and holding out, or causing problems downtown? Sure, because it hurts the team and their chances of success and lessens my enjoyment of the games (by increasing the chance the Chiefs will lose). Is Larry Johnson being a shithead in any way, shape or form a reflection on me personally? Hell no…he hasn’t got a damn thing to do with me. If Johnson leaves or stays with the Chiefs, it won’t affect my life at all outside of the actual football games (which really aren’t that critical to my life because they’re not reality…at least not my reality).
All I’m saying was that Elways and Eli’s attitude was in poor taste in reflection on the other players on the board and the drafting rules are in place to make it as fair as possible.
Again…only if you accept the basic premise that the draft itself is the fairest (or best) system of distribution. I don’t accept that.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Chargers ripped the Giants off IMO…Rivers is a better QB than Manning and the trade also let them add Shawne Merriman
You know me…I’ll take the Lombardi and the Giants got the Lombardi. It’ll be a cold day in h&!! before you see the Chargers representing the AFC with Rivers and Merriman.
However, I feel the same way about his crying. I’d wipe that smug look right off his face:
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swap Eli For Rivers And Merriman
And they would have had a better chance at winning the Super Bowl. And they wouldn’t have done it as the NFC East wild card.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pure speculation
I don’t deal in speculation and “what if’s” since they cannot be supported with empirical evidence.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers Is A Better Quality QB Than Manning
And Merriman is a better LB than anyone the Giants had in that LB corps.
If before Merriman got hurt someone had offered you Eli Manning for Philip Rivers and Shawne Merriman, would you take them up on it?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And As For The Giants' 2007 Season
Their success had more to do with that killer d-line than Eli Manning.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find these arguments humorous
I’ll argue that had Eli fumbled and thrown more INT’s in the post season as well as the SB the Giant’s wouldn’t have won.
And I’ll also argue that if Rivers completed more passes and fumbled less and Merriman had better stats, they’d have already won a SB.
Great, and I think the Chiefs could-a, would-a and should-a won 6-8 more games had we had a better O-line and the stars were aligned.
Pure speculation without supportive evidence.
It’s actually Bowe’s fault with the drop against the Chargers. I loved that article that explained the ramifications and firings.
Hmmm, I suppose the fumble before that and the lack of points in the first half didn’t have anything to do with that. Let’s pin it on Bowe. My point is that speculation abounds on all sides in regards to sports but doesn’t change the facts. Stick to facts UC and we can debate.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, You Mean Like He Did In The Regular Season?
Philip Rivers had a better completion percentage, better yards per attempt, and a better TD/INT ratio than Eli Manning did in 2007. Rivers was a better QB than Eli both during the regular season (which is partly why the Chargers won more games) and the postseason. Go look at the numbers yourself if you don’t believe me.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
However, I’ll also argue that if Eli made more mistakes, regardless of how the rest of the team played, they would not have won the SB.
It’s the same argument I had for Flacco this year. His numbers were great, however when he played in the post season, his poor play/mistakes reflected on the Falcon’s not making it to the SB. Honestly, his numbers in the last game were atrocious.
A lot of credit has to be given to QB’s in PROTECTING the ball. This to me (in Eli’s case as well as others…see Dilfer in the playoffs/SB), is also a mitigating factor to whether a team is successful.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And actually...
…The PROTECTING the ball comment is something I’ve really looked at the last few years. Ron Jaworski keeps reflecting upon it like a parrot and the more I watch football games (especially with Defense heavy teams like the Falcons), the more I realize that QB’s play a much larger role in protection than I had envisioned in the past.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Great QB's Job Is
A) To consistently move the ball down the field and put his team in a position to score and win, and
B) To consistently avoid putting his team in a position to lose.
Eli Manning does neither of those things consistently.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And It Could Be Argued
That neither does his brother in the big games. Much as I like Peyton Manning and believe he’s possibly the best regular season QB ever, he’s not a particularly good postseason QB…even after that Super Bowl win. He was lucky he had a great team around him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
However, I’ll also argue that if Eli made more mistakes, regardless of how the rest of the team played, they would not have won the SB.
So in other words your case for greatness isn’t predicated on him being the key to victory but rather on him not playing badly enough to lose?
Because aside from that one half of football, Eli wasn’t that great in the playoffs that year. And anyone can have a good half (or game) of football without being a very good player, even in the Super Bowl (e.g. Timmy Smith).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Pure speculation without supportive evidence.
The stats clearly support my case for Rivers being the better QB. You, on the other hand, are trying to claim that the fact that the Giants won a Super Bowl is the deciding factor between the two, which is a bit like saying that any given player in the starting lineup of a Super Bowl champion is obviously better than any non-Super Bowl winning player in the league at the same position.
You’re assuming that the whole cannot be greater than the sum of its parts.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, see my post above as you were typing
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Stats Still Back Rivers Being The Better QB
I’m sorry, but Eli Manning simply wasn’t that great during 2007. He just had the misfortune of enjoying a period of non-suckiness at an extremely opportune time.
Rivers was the better QB…and my point is that his team didn’t advance further in spite of what Rivers’ performance rather than because of it.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'll argue
That Dan Marino is considered one of the best QB’s to have played the game, however his post season mistakes hurt his chance of winning a SB more than his post season accomplishments.
I don’t think Eli is a “great” QB per say. What I will contend is that Eli knows when NOT to make the egghead play. The thing that tipped me off on him was the post SB meeting he had with Payton in the locker-room.
The camera’s were on and Payton said in a pretty hush hush manner with camera’s rolling with an “I told you so” comment about Eli playing smart football and letting the Defense play when they were up by 10 pts.(I’m paraphrasing here).
To me, that was telling that Eli played well in that he didn’t lose his head and try to win the game or put more points on the board by forcing the ball and hurting his team. There’s smart football plays where you throw the ball away…he should be the poster-child of PROTECTING the football in that playoff/SB run moreso than putting points on the board.
There are great QB’s in the league and Rivers is a great QB, I’m not arguing that point…but the SB winning QB’s don’t have to win the game as long as they protect the football in the postseason to allow the team to win with the people around them (see LT, Merriman, etc. a strong SD squad)
Eli and Dilfer won with their respective teams because they knew that their mistakes/turnovers would greatly hurt the teams success moreso than feeling they had to put points on the board.They kept their head and accepted their role.
Eli didn’t make egghead mistakes. That’s my point.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 8, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3-4 D???
Lions fan here…I’m not sure who said the Lions were planning to run a 3-4, but they’re planning to run a 4-3. Both HC Schwartz (former DC for Tennessee) and DC Cunningham (former DC for Chiefs) ran 4-3’s at their former teams.
That said, I do like the Butler pick. We really need CB help.
by n4ry4 on Apr 8, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gunther Liked To Run 3-4's As Well
He built his greatest success off that with the Chiefs back when we had Derrick Thomas. The info that they’re transitioning to a 3-4 came from the guys at Pride of Detroit, who believed that the Lions would be running a hybrid 4-3/3-4 this season while making the shift to a 3-4.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They Follow The Lions More Closely Than I Do
So I took them at their word…plus it would make sense with Gunther anyway.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 8, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so depressed that we don't have a second round pick
yet……
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
by Shawn on Apr 8, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Steal of the century?
There are no stupid questions just stupid people
by IPWT2009 on Apr 8, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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