Examining Larry Johnson's True Trade Value to the Chiefs
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 3:41 PM CDT
in 2009 Offseason
149 comments
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Rambling, stream of consciousness thoughts follow...
It appears that the end may be coming for Larry Johnson and the Kansas City Chiefs. As Primetime noted, Johnson lost his 2009 guaranteed salary, clearing the way for him to either be cut or traded without further financial ramifications. Or kept and run into the ground.
If you take a look at NFL trades over the last few years (heck, 10 years), you'll notice that not too many of them involved running backs. In my quick research, I noted only a handful of running backs that were traded and very few were considered even close to marquee backs at the time.
RB Lorenzo Booker, drafted by the Dolphins in the 3rd round in 2007, was traded to the Eagles a year later for a 4th round pick.
Michael Bennett, T.J. Duckett and Samkom Gado were all traded for either low picks or equally capable players in recent years.
So, what is Larry Johnson truly worth in a trade? I'm going to say at the maximum, the Kansas City Chiefs will be able to garner a 4th round pick straight up for Larry Johnson. Before I continue with my analysis, let me take you back to what Direckshun said back before the trade deadline last year:
Worth: At this point, he's worth a 4th. There's no way any team in the NFL will want to pay the price that Carl Peterson is asking at the latest trading stage in the season. There aren't a lot of teams that are willing to cough up a first-day pick for a guy who doesn't block at a position that most teams value little. It's possible that the Chiefs could land a good deal this coming offseason for LJ, when teams are more relaxed and everybody's thinking ambitiously. But at this point, it's near impossible the Chiefs get anything better than a 4th for LJ. If anybody offered a 3rd (which nobody will), Peterson should leap on it--but I'm probably guessing he won't.
I know what you're saying. If Larry was worth a 4th round pick last year, shouldn't he be worth less this year? Yes and no. He does have the off the field stuff working against him, with a possible suspension looming. Larry has also shown an inability to stay out of trouble, even moreso than Jared Allen did when he was a Chief. That definitely hurts his trade value. His foot injury from 2007 also has to linger in people's minds.
But, I, like many people, feel like LJ still has gas left in the tank. In the appropriate situation, he could play like the Larry of old for two or even three seasons IMO. He's still capable of being a 20+ carry a game back. I have no doubt about that.
Larry is at risk but still has potential to play at a high level. A fine line, indeed. Let's check out two comparable trades with running backs, both right around Larry Johnson's same draft year.
Clinton Portis was drafted by the Denver Broncos in 2002. Prior to the 2004 season, after racking up back to back 1,500 yard rushing seasons, the Broncos traded Portis to the Redskins for cornerback Champ Bailey and a second-round draft pick in the 2004 NFL Draft.
So, we have a running back literally at the top of his game who is traded for one first day pick and the best defensive player at his position. Will Larry garner any such deal? Not even close. I don't believe that any team would give up any player of any sort of value for LJ. He's strictly a draft pick trade because of his risk. I think teams will only trade unknown commodities (draft picks) instead of known players.
Next, also coming out in 2003 like LJ, we have Willis McGahee. After sitting out the 2003 season recuperating an injured knee, McGahee went on to rush for 1,128, 1,247 and 990 yards respectively in the following seasons.
Before the 2007 season, the Bills traded McGahee to the Baltimore Ravens for third and seventh round picks in the 2007 NFL Draft, and a third round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft.
Forget that 7th round pick for a second. McGahee was basically traded for two third round picks.
Between Portis and McGahee, Willis McGhahee's situation is probabaly closer to Larry Johnson. Both have/had injury concerns and both are/were in that second contract time period. I think you can argue that McGahee in 2007 and Johnson now are in similar areas of concern with their durability. McGahee because of previous injuries and Johnson because of his age and injuries.
Larry Johson won't garner nearly the draft picks and talent that Portis and McGhahee did for a couple of reasons. One, his off the field trouble puts him at risk for a suspenision. Two, he's part of that darn 400+ carry curse that has to spook team's player personnel guys. Finally, even only a few years removed from the Portis and McGhahee trades, running backs are now more expendable in the NFL. Teams are much more willing to pair up two mid round backs than put the load (and risk) all on one player.
So, after reading through that mess of words, let us know what you think Larry Johnson is worth in trade.
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I Say They Won't Be Able To Trade Him
His attitude problems, possible impending suspension, sometimes lackadaisical efforts, and the Chiefs’ move to negate the salary to clear the way for potentially dumping him pretty much make him untradeable. Why spend a draft pick on a player that could be available to you later?
I guess I could see them getting a sixth or seventh rounder for him…but that’s about it. They might get a decent pick if they package him with Waters or Gonzalez.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
remember who the gm is tho
we will probably get somthing better than we all are expecting
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who Knows
Honestly, though, I don’t even care any more. Johnson has been such a problem child for this team, I don’t even care if they let him go for nothing and we have to live with a platoon of Kolby Smith (who sucks) and Jamaal Charles (who is good, but fragile). The Chiefs will find another running back.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Honestly, though, I don’t even care any more."
I’m in this camp now too. It’s tough to let my emotions get in the way of football business.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont like that attitude
you guys are depressing me with the I dont care anymore talk
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't care about LJ talk?
Man, I really don’t. I just don’t. It’s too soap-opera like to keep me interested.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Not That I Don't Care About The Team
It’s that I’m so sick of Larry Johnson’s whining and bitching and pouting and underachieving (and criminal activity) the last two years that I wouldn’t care if he got hit by a bus tomorrow.
I’m just done with the guy…he’s a leech and a cancer and I don’t care what the Chiefs get for him as long as he’s gone so we don’t have to hear about him. I honestly hope he ends up with the Eagles so he can get ripped in the press constantly and booed on the field by a fanbase that isn’t a 1/10 as supportive as Chiefs fans are of players. Serves that prick right.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rebuttal
Why spend a draft pick on a player that could be available to you later?
Why not drop a 6th round pick on a player who might not be available later?
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because If He Decides He Doesn't Want To Be There
He’ll be a pain in the ass for your team and you’ll be out a draft pick if you cut him.
But then it’s probably better than signing him…at least there’s no cap hit for Johnson if you trade for him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the Raiders
They would love to have him and run him down our throats.
by choirboy on Apr 6, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go angels ill be at the game tooonight yeees
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
siiiick
probably going to the Jays opener in an hour or so
by SayHeyWerd on Apr 6, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If just LJ then a 4th is the best we can hope for
if a package, then we can let Pioli weave his special kind of magic and shock us all again.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 6, 2009 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
and the only way I would be happy with him going.
Unless we can get a workable RB for the pick we are dealt for him, then it is putting too much on our “to do” list this year.
If we can package him, even better. I wanna turn our #3 into many picks.
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we love the team thats why i think lj must go he
brings me down on sunday when i see him give no effort when we need one yard.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
rb are a dime a dozen if lj was ballin out of control i would care less if he spit
on chicks ya he would still be a sick bastard but at the end of the day if the guy is just balling i would put up with him sad thing is hes not ballin. even when looking at T.O atleast you know T.O is giving it all yes he is a cancer but he just puts up numbers reguardless thats why teams are willing to give him a shot. I cant say the same for lj he performs when he wants to thats why i can say bye to him.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go with the TO stuff again
what about vick next
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vick sucked as a QB too
Already been hashed in a thread here. His stats were putrid and he was all hype. Do a search on him here. I initially didn’t think he was that bad…the folks here convinced me otherwise.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 6, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
grand im not saying I want T.O on the team
but the guy puts up numbers Lj doesnt . You know at the start of the season you can pretty much mark down 20 TDs from T.O i would kill for production like that.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
didnt lj have like 195 yards against denver last year????
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 out of 16...I'll give him that.
So with your stat and mine I’ll give you that he was 6% successful.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 6, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are too quick to turn on players
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
Attacking 3 women, bitching the last 2 years and wanting to leave the team because he said “the fans don’t want him here”.
He said he wants out…I say see ya. Same for any other player that wants out.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 6, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that 1 of our 2 wins?
if he could only do that for a full season………..
by TonyG88 on Apr 6, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver turned the ball over 5 times in that game.
The turnover gave us the win, not the running game.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Apr 6, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry i ment 10tds for T.O
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Denver Denver Denver
come on they had a weak ass defense we beat them.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Larry's trade value
It is obvious that the author of this article is not GM material. Regardless of his off-field problems LJ is still a premier running back in the NFL. Try finding another RB who averaged 4.5 yards per carry and see if his team will give him up for a 4th round draft choice. You must be the same moron who was tired of Randy Moss’s behavior and traded him to the Patriots for what???……..a 4th round pick. Pioli already knows the rest of the story!!!
by BigRedCadillac on Apr 6, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
oops.
"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.
by DThomasReigns on Apr 6, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read what I said?
“But, I, like many people, feel like LJ still has gas left in the tank. In the appropriate situation, he could play like the Larry of old for two or even three seasons IMO. He’s still capable of being a 20+ carry a game back. I have no doubt about that.”
The argument isn’t the Chiefs should trade LJ. It’s if they did, what would they get.
And no, I am not GM material. I will gladly admit that.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I, on the other hand
Am a GM in waiting.
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no need to call chris a moron
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the fact of the matter is
LJ is a durable RB who can pound the ball every down
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Every down except 3rd down
He’s not on the field for that.
And he pounds the ball every down for a total of 5 TD’s.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Apr 6, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not brown nosing im just saying no need to bash the guy
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well then let him defend himself
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok sorry
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris be sure
and give sexassassin a gold star or a cookie or somthing
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude the guy handles his own shit he explaind the article what do you want.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sombody
call the wahbulance or dial 9 wah wah or call 1 800 boo hoo extension wah
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easssy guys,.
All on the same team here.
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are the one crying about what I say .
you cried for him to fight his own battle. And he did
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright
Let’s chill out and stop revving up our comment counts.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go take one cause your acting like a vadge right now.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're just getting worked up
because you know you are wrong
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys sitting next to each
other in a computer lab or something? This isn’t typical of you guys.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Maybe It's Because
You’re continuing to bait him…which you should probably quit doing.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how am i wrong when its an opinion?
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds Like You Both Need To Take A Timeout
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And lj needs like 30 carries to be effective . he is a big back
that belongs in pittsburg or ravens
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LJ
has no place in Pittsburgh. Take it back. Haha
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok i take that back but it wouldent be a bad idea him as a back up role would be scary him and larry
would be pretty sick in my opinion.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are going to be running a circus tight rope act
with haley in charge im sure we will run to but pass will be our first option ..
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The rest of the story
Chris may not be a moron…..but just imagine LJ in the Bronco’s backfiel torching us twice a year if we dump him. After one year of that we will be calling somebody a moron!!!!
by BigRedCadillac on Apr 6, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
exactly what ive been saying
wrecked
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
Like I said, I still Larry can play at a high level. We do run that risk if we let him go.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just imagine LJ in the Bronco’s backfiel torching us twice a year
Fantasy is far from reality. He sure didn’t torch a lot the last 2 years.Course he could be as great as TO was when he left Phil. for Dallas….no wait, nevermind.
I’d rather have him gone than have him run his mouth in the locker-room causing the entire team to go down the tubes.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 6, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would relish the thought of a top 5 D
pounding on LJ for 2 games a year. Besides year 1 will probably only be once if he is suspended by league again.
by TonyG88 on Apr 6, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I don't fear LJ playing for an opposing team
I think his personality is a self-imploding one and will finish the way of Bam Morris. I hope I’m wrong. Anyone that abuses women not only once, but multiple times is on a path to self destruction.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Apr 6, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would PAY to put LJ in the Broncos backfield
We could have another Cutler/McDaniels Denver meltdown.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Apr 6, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude put it this way if larry balls he balls he has no motivation here
any back that comes back to play his old team has motivation at the end of the day you have to come and bring it every play. LJ has reached his peak with us the guy is old. If lj was 22 year old i would be probably changing my opinion a tad but the guy is at his peak why pay him more when rb are a dime a dozen.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you need to look at the bigger picture
if you dont like somthing right now you dont just throw it away
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's Not Looking At The "Right Now"
He’s looking at the fact that Johnson is a running back who has underachieved two straight years, who has a very physical style of running, and who is getting close to the age where RBs drop off. If Johnson was only 21 or 22 it might be worth keeping him around…but he’s getting to the end of his effective career as a primary back and his production isn’t enough to offset the distractions and problems he creates with his behavior.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly uc once again you get it. And im sure pioli gets it to
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
It’s very likely that Johnson’s best years are already behind him, so if he’s going to cause problems for your team and there’s a good chance he’s not going to produce great numbers again, why bother with him causing issues with the team?
Frankly, I don’t think Johnson particularly cares about football any more…I get the impression that he’s more interested in the celebrity that goes along with being a pro football player (which is why he wants to go to the East Coast and a bigger media market).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly if he wanted to be here he would have made it happen
by his actions i have heard nothing from him that he wants to be on this team. He wants to move on and play else where why are people defending him I dont know why . The guy does not want to be a chief.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article said trade not throw away.
Trade value correct?
by TonyG88 on Apr 6, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ill take a trade ill take what ever they offer for him
i would be down to get a running back for him. If we cant get picks for him .
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keep hearing you guys with this dime a dozen crap....
RBs of his caliber are not a dime a dozen. He was a top ten back last year behind a shitty O-line AND running out of the spread formation. If he does get traded to a division rival, we are gonna be pissed after he burns us for 150 yards.
With improved O-line play and running out of a pro-set formation, LJ will still perform at a very high level for 2-3 more years. Dude is still ballin! No team will want to give up high draft picks but, if Pioli cuts him, teams will line up to pick him up. Believe that.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 6, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can get more
those teams I listed as "probable" because they will have most of their needs taken care of by the high 1-3 draft picks. Those teams have multiples on day one and early day two, they can more likely afford to give us a 3-5th round pick.
We have good bargaining position because we can sign him for nothing and keep him if other teams try to low ball us. A 3-5 for the potential that Johnson brings would be huge for teams that are weak at the running back position and needa bruiser.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 6, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
incomplete, I listed some probable teams in my fanpost on this subject earlier : Cleveland, Patriots, Jets, Philadelphia, etc…
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea
Of packaging him to the eagles. How probable is that though? This is the first year I’ve paid much attention to the draft, so I’m not sure whats possible and what is wishful thinking.
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Eagles have the 21st and 28th pick in the 1st round
Which is probably about what it would take to get to the Chiefs 3rd overall pick.
The value is probably a little less (compared to years past) for the Chiefs in that scenario so I don’t see LJ being added to a deal like that.
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So You're hoping for a deal with the Eagles
but you don’t think LJ will be packaged with it?
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be the best case scenario in my mind
I think Pioli and Co. would send the 3rd away to get a couple at the end of the 1st round.
Historically, the 21 and 28 picks aren’t enough to warrant the 3rd overall so I wouldn’t think that LJ would be included in any deal.
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking since they need to fill the RB spot
They would give us their 2 1st rds, 3rd, and maybe a 4th for our 3rd and LJ
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see that
Interesting idea.
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am looking at the big picture . the big picture is giving what lj wants
and he wants out no need to keep guys hostage in a situation he dont want to be in. he made it clear he wants play on the east coast. The big picture is hes 30 years old and you are looking at him like he is jim brown . And the guy is in trouble missing games our team is bigger than one guy. And denver can have him they are going to need him.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
stfu about gd denver already
that would just be great to watch him run all over our new defense next year
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude have some faith first off he wouldent run all over us
because he wont be in the game after we have a 14 point lead . because he cant block or catch passes out the back field
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pollard and LJ
Would be a sick hit!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now You're Bordering On Personal Attacks With That Headline
If you can’t refrain from doing that, take a break for a bit…sexassassin didn’t attack you in the comment you just responded to.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Comment was addressed to Grand Master A.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was you Eric
The way you came in here using your non agressive and very general statements not aimed at anyone specifically ways. How dare you not attack these statements non personally!
by oldchiefsfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i dont like this kinder gentler and be friends with the rivals thing that is going on now
I must be old school because I dont like anything about denver and when someone thinks that its not a bad idea to give LJ to then I get offended, thats all. Nothing personal
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we cant get nothing for him that just says to us he aint worth it.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know pioli is gonna get somthing for him
if they even trade him
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baltimore would be a good fit,
well not really, I remember him stepping out of bounds to avoid hits. Where would be the best fit for LJ?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he gets something for him great running backs are a dime a dozen
our main focus should be work on our o line . That way we can get any back that would fit as our running back.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep the o-line makes the back.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we can just work on the O-line
and not worry about our running game.
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pancakes make the running game!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great running backs are not a dime a dozen
average or good running backs are a dime a dozen not GREAT ones
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And with a good o-line
good runningbacks look great, see LJ.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
priest holmes undrafted the guy is a stud for us had a good oline . rest my case
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you implying that LJ is a “great” back?
by chiefstatnut on Apr 6, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well he is certainly
above average
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't argue that
… and I’d even give you that he’s great in one dimension. Although, as has been previously noted, his age calls into question his ability to continue to be a great smashmouth runner.
I really wonder if he’ll run hard consistently next year if he knows the organization is just trying to squeeze his last bit of usefulness out him.
by chiefstatnut on Apr 6, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly chiefstatnut
I dont understand when people say lets run him to the ground #1 what is the use of that when he doesnt run consistantly now . He has no modivation at this point he does not want to be here.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Above average
but not in the same league as Marcus Allen or Priest Holmes. Those guys always got the yards when we needed it. and it can be argued that MA wasn’t behind as strong an oline as PH was. Not to say that MA’s oline was as bad as we were these last two years by any stretch. But that it was a more average oline.
by Eastcoastransplant on Apr 6, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um no
Saying he was the product of a dominant o-line.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for the confusion, Eric Allen
My question was directed at Grand Master A.
by chiefstatnut on Apr 6, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing we can agree on
Screw the donkeys!!!!!!
by TonyG88 on Apr 6, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you.
Our Defense is not going to be good this year. If we trade him inside of our division, He is gonna burn us badddd.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 6, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was all for getting rid of LJ, but
I am in the PT camp now, keep him, run his ass into the ground, then let the women spit on him while he is down!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
The only scenario where it would be worth our trouble of redoing our running game would be a package for a trade down of our #3.
And after discussing with Prime above it doesn’t sound super likely.
Haley will MAKE LJ play for us next year.
by The Steel City on Apr 6, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My concern
and I wouldn’t mind us running him into the ground, but… why would he? He’s even in the best of times, INCONSIstent (wouldn’t want that to be all Caps :) and has run best when he has the proverbial Chip on his Shoulders. So why would he run well if he knew he was on a short leash, close to being cut, and was being run into retirement. I mean he thinks he’s that damn good. He (in my best psychoanalysis impersonation) doesn’t think he has anything left to prove. So with wanting out of town, and being retained, and thinking he’s that good, and knowing he’s (deservedly) unappreciated, what motivation does he have to work hard at all? He believes he’s a rock star. So although I can see the argument for keeping him, I don’t know what we’ll get out of him if we do. I don’t think he’s professional enough to run his ass off for the Chiefs b/c he’s a Pro Football Player.
by Eastcoastransplant on Apr 6, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And having him half-ass it?
Not worth the negative impact on the team.
by Eastcoastransplant on Apr 6, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LJ still has some value
If he can’t drink and can’t go out he might as well play football. We could burn him out of town for peanuts but that’d probably be wasteful. He’s made statements at this point to the effect he’d like to stick around under the new regime, but like anything he says at this point it carries no weight.
The ‘cancer’ and deadbeat tag if justified might make it worth something to liquidate him, but so far LJ only really seems to be a cancer to LJ. Although the pass blocking thing has always been an embarrassing liability of his.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Apr 6, 2009 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I could get on board with this
However, you touched on my biggest concern. Putting LJ on the field will be the equivalent of having a blatant tell in a poker game. If the coaching staff is smart, they will NOT have him in the game when a pass is called, lest he pull a Dallas-game ¡olé! and the $14.6 million quarterback investment collapses in a heap of Joe Theismann.
Perhaps we can go back to the good ol’ Martyball play-action! Bring in Dave Krieg to teach Matty C how to hide the ball from the defense!
by chiefstatnut on Apr 6, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
for many of the reasons you have stated, I think Pioli will get a conditional pick in next years draft for LJ. Many people think he still has playing potential, but all the questions are character and suspension related. Take those into consideration and we are talking 2010 conditional 3rd round pick if LJ plays a certain number of downs and carries in 2009.
One way the Patriots had additional picks was through trading for future picks that teams are more likely to let go of.
by TonyG88 on Apr 6, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need a all down back
a westbrook type charles can be that guy he just needs to practice and he will be fine he has all the tools just have to give him the rock.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude , you are fucking Crazzzy!
Just like I was crazy the other day when I was comparing Brady Quinn to Jay Cutler. Jamal Charles will NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be an every down RB. He does not have the durability.
He is not big enough and he cannot take the punishment of being an every down RB.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 6, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Why
You can always do a platoon with some mid-round RB from the draft. If Jamaal Charles isn’t able to be an every-down back, the Chiefs can easily find someone to split carries. It’s not like if Johnson gets dumped that the Chiefs absolutely must give Jamaal Charles all the carries and are barred from picking up anyone else.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
by UCrawford on Apr 6, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is exactly where my problem lies in all this.
We only have a few draft picks and tons of holes to fill. Now we have to find another RB too?
I know we wont see a power running game like the old days but, I have always thought that was kind of the identity of the Chiefs. I guess the days of beating up opposing teams with great O-line play and a Bruiser RB are forever gone.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 6, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well its been fun
but im off to work so this will be my last comment for at least 8 hours
by Grand Master A on Apr 6, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that sucks
Particularly if that bottle of cheap scotch from the random ramblings is empty. My butt would be dragging if I was you.
by chiefstatnut on Apr 6, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 hours?
Missing the NCAA Championship game tonight???
Go Spartans (for betting purposes only)!
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Larry would be idiotic
With a good line, Larry could run for 1500 yards easily..Very easily..
I see no reason to trade him at all..And he does have 2-3 elite years in him..
Why trade him for a 4th round pick who is likely not even going to make an impact..Larry is one of our strengths..Letting him go would be incredibly stupid..
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 6, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if we can get a trade for him like rb for rb
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Flip... flop...
I’m changing my mind on this situation. I had previously stated that I was convinced that LJ would be cut or traded. My change of heart has more to do with statements made by Haley than it does to do with LJ himself. There are two things that Haley has specifically stated that have swayed my opinion. The first, holds no weight of it’s own: “… a clean slate for everybody”. The second changes things a bit though (you’ll have to forgive me, but I can’t find a direct quote): “trust must be developed with the players”. See, if Haley says that everyone has a clean slate then, I believe, he would lose the trust of some of the players if they were to turn around and cut Johnson without giving him a chance. Just a thought.
by KCMizzou on Apr 6, 2009 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand what he is saying clean slate
but i have to side with pioli saying its the right guys on this team. With lj problems with his age, his non blocking his not so good ability to run hard and catch balls out of the back field is he the right guy for this team?
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, but...
again, clean slate. Will he work to improve his blocking? Will he run harder? Will he work on his ball handling? Will he make the effort to be more of a team player? I doubt all of those things, but will LJ really, truly be given a clean slate? If not, what would make any other guy on the team believe they have a clean slate as well?
by KCMizzou on Apr 6, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WEll he hasnt done all of the above if he had
there wouldent even be a question about him returning.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I say...
This dude comes back and helps contribute to a winning team, He’s still a stud..remember when he was truckin’ fools on a weekly basis? I think he still has it in him. Why would you trade a stud RB for a third round chance? We know what he can do good and bad, he is still a player. period.
by ZachMartin2 on Apr 6, 2009 6:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Still a player for how long?
And he hasn’t really been a player for two years, one due to injury the other due to off the field issues.
Only a couple of RBs in NFL history have continued their productivity into their 30s. I’d say a 3rd rounder has a better chance of working out than LJ bucking the odds of history and being above average for more than a year.
by Joel Thorman on Apr 6, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will take a 3rd rounder or a 4th rounder who wants to play for us
who is a team first guy and who is going to grind to get a first down . With upside and has youth in his legs.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok think about this
Herm edwards was a run first guy . Larry did nothing for him this past year in a run first offense . he had 5 tds 29th place in the nfl .
Now we are moving on to a pass first offense where does larry fit in now. He couldent stay on the field if we were down in points and he couldent be on the field when we had 3rd down pass situations where does he fit if we are pass happy?
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We all have diff opinions on larry
Pioli will let us know im sure this week what happens to larry . Fact is ill be down for what ever way we go if we keep him im willing to give it a try . I dont think it will work out but ill give it a try. I know at the end of a day an unhappy back is use less to us and for any player at that matter a guy who doesnt want to play for us is no good for us.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The only thing I think about this thread is....
The 180+ people that actually think we can get a 3rd rounder out of a 30+ year old malcontent, thug, idiot must be high.
Please pass me some of whatever it is you are smoking because I ran out of the good stuff in 1993.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Apr 6, 2009 6:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no shit
I voted 5th rounder and felt like that might be optimistic.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Apr 6, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's 29
and if you didnt notice theres 30+ malcontent, idiot thugs all over this league. He played on a 2-14 team, he could still help… Everybody wants to talk about clearing house and cutting people, so you want all rookies? Theres new management, new coaches and quite possibly a new LJ. He has everything to lose if he messes up again. If he does he’s the leagues problem, if he doesn’t I could see him really helping out.
by ZachMartin2 on Apr 6, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and even if i "gave" you all that (which i don't) we still can't get a 3rd rounder for him
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Apr 7, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly no one is in the market for that . If there is then so be it get it done
if we can get a trade straight across im down but no way we get any crazy value for this guy and for good reason .
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 6, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
all i know is lj is getting cut get ready for it.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 7, 2009 12:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
His contract is completely non-guaranteed now
I’m of the opinion that at very best we’re getting a 5th for him, more likely a 6th.
If thats the case, I’d suggest bringing him to camp and letting Pioli/Haley evaluate his ability and attitude, if they don’t like what they see, cut him then.
You could even start the preseason or even regular season with him, and just dice him any time he either does something LJish off the field or his performance is subpar.
I’m by no means an LJ supporter, but I don’t see it doing the Chiefs much good to cut him now or trade him for a 6th or 7th.
Maybe…and I’m not confident here, but maybe Haley + no guaranteed money would be enough to get LJ to run lke he gives a f8ck again. If not, screw him, and cut him this summer when there are even less jobs out there for him.
by kcsno56 on Apr 7, 2009 1:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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