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A look into the 4-3 Under

Hey guys, I stumbled across a site where Pete Carroll does a full Football Analysis of the 4-3 Under with pictures and descriptions of where the various players should slot in.  Since we're getting more and more information pointing towards this defense, I thought I'd share the info with you...

Slide1undervsproset_medium

via i109.photobucket.com


Positional/Player information after the jump...

Star-divide

I'll attach Coach Carroll's quotes and break down the player(s) that we can slot into those positions.

At Nose Tackle you have to find a player who likes to mix it up.  We want a big guy in there who likes to get down and dirty.  He is going to get doubled a lot on the run and pass and is going to get down blocked a lot.  He has to be a tough player.  This guy can be a short and stubby type of player.

Now, we know Tank's name is written in pencil beside this position.  There were reports of Dorsey maybe sliding in here, but the double team and down blocking doesn't give me faith that he could do this, as that's similar to the position that he played last year.

The open side Defensive End has to be one of your best football players.  Size does not matter as much.  We want an athletic player who can move around.

This is where we've got a huge hole.  As he's not eating the tackle, we want a quick, athletic, 4-3 end.  Currently, we've got Tamba and Babin on the roster, but their inability to get to the QB last year tells me we need help, and lots of it.  Jason Taylor's name is being thrown around on this site, as are Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo's.

The other defensive tackle the 3 technique player should be your premier interior pass rusher.  He is going to get a lot of one on one blocks as it is hard to double team him because of where he lines up. 

This is where we should write Dorsey's name in SHARPIE.  1-on-1, inside gaps...I could go over the same thing as many people on this site have, he just fits here.

The defensive end to the tight end side needs to be a defensive player that can play the run. He does not have to be a big time pass rusher.  He has to play the C gap and stop the run.

Of the guys on our roster, this one could be a few.  McBride, while lacking in pass rush, is good enough against the run to slot in here.  As this position will buckle inwards towards the guard, I think Babin/Hali would be out...but a guy like Ron Edwards might not be a bad fill.

The Mike linebacker is a traditional middle linebacker.  He is instinctive and makes a lot of calls for the defense.  He may be the guy with the most experience or the best feel for the game.

Zach Thomas.  Monty Beisel.  I'd feel better with a little depth behind that or some competition, possibly Curry, Maualuga, Laurinitas, and Ellerbe in this draft class.  DJ might be able to move here in a pinch.

The Will linebacker can be a smaller player.  He is generally protected in the defensive schemes and will not see as many blocks.  All you want him to do most plays is flow and chase the football.  We want our fastest linebacker at this position.

Of the players on our squad, DJ fits here well.  The words "will not see as many blocks" scream his name.  A guy like Brian Johnston (even though he's a DE) would be a great blitzing/speed option, although a severe liability in coverage.  DeMorrio Williams or even Pollard, maybe?

The Sam linebacker has to be a good containment player.  He has to be big and strong enough to play on the edge of the tight end.  He has to be able to run in pass coverage also.

Vrabel, Vrabel, Vrabel.  Curry, Barwin, maybe Brown could slot here from our draft guys.

The defensive backs that are the best run defenders are our safeties.  The Free Safety is another player who makes a lot of tackles for us.  He has to have good instincts.  He is what we call a natural player.  You don’t have to coach this player too much.  He has to have a feel for the everything and understand the big picture.

The corners have to run fast if you plan on playing bump and run.  If they don’t run fast then you can still play with them.  But if your corners are not faster than the wide receivers you are facing don’t play bump and run.  Your asking them to do something they can not do and they’ll get beat deep.  It is a race when you play bump and run and if you can’t win the race don’t play bump and run.

Self-explanatory.  Pollard, Page, Morgan...Flowers, Carr, Leggett.  Nothing changes there.

So, we've got some really good fits and a couple of question marks (RDE and MLB/SLB depth) with the guys we have now, using this system.  In the end, it echoes our thoughts of needing a pass rusher (RDE) and some solid LB's.

Here's the site...the quotes I posted aren't near the extent of the article.  There's detailed gap explanations for each position in many different formations.  While it may not be exactly what we run under Pendergast, it may give those with less of an understanding of the 4-3 Under a detailed analysis as an introduction.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 152 comments  |  25 recs  | 

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I like the diagram

Rec’d. I stand by my claim that what we need more then anything else is someone to play that outside rush end position. I like E. Brown, but regardless of who you think it should be, I don’t see Hali as the answer.

Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!

by KCporkchop on Apr 14, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

We need a pure pass rusher coming off the edge. IMO this is the biggest need on defense. That would make the whol D look a lot better.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 14, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about...

Aaron Maybin. The kid’s ceiling is through the roof.

by I_Bleed_Red. on Apr 21, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

If we draft Tyson Jackson

Would he play LDE or RDE as a prototypical 3-4 End in a 4-3 under?

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 21, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Nice find, Kalo. Thanks for sharing.

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Notice how

he said the NT can be “short and stubby”…….Dorsey

even though I want see Tank there now : )

by DT58forever on Apr 14, 2009 2:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I got happy

before reading the rest I see where Dorsey fits now

by DT58forever on Apr 14, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah

Ignore the other reply, it posted right when this one did.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

But he also said he'll get doubled...

I just don’t think he’s the right fit there, especially when he can go 1-v-1 on the guard and wreak the kind of havoc he did at LSU.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Dorsey has to much talent to just be a guy to take up some blocks. We need him in the back field earning that huge contract.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Apr 14, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey

Isnt that the d-fense we ran with N.Smith and D.Thomas?

by CPT.Caveman on Apr 14, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

If I remember correctly

We did run a 3-4 early on in Marty’s career then switched to a 4-3 (maybe around the time Saleaumeau came around?).

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Joe Phillips

When were got Joe Phillips here is when we switched to the 4-3.

by tevans96 on Apr 17, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

why u would you rec this?

You are just going through the roster and placing people in the posistion they would play in 4-3 under? If you didn’t know the way a 4-3 under defense looked before you read this post your a moron. Not to say my posts don’t suck but I also get no rec’s lol. Not trying to be a jerk just the shit people rec on here is retarted.

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions  

...

Thanks? Just trying to help anybody out who didn’t know…

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

not you man sry

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That sounded more asshole than I wanted it to

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

If this helped you out and your an editor for a Chiefs site!!!!

THAT’S SAD shouldn’t you already kinda know these things?

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

who is this guy?

afc west champs… no need to be a prick.

who are you, Gunther Cunningham?

by stagdsp on Apr 14, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok i agree

I said sry so lay off on that and as far as this is news to somebody I’m shocked ,but ok I eat,sleep,dream and shit red and gold so this is not new to me you should know how the 4-3 under worked if you were a real football fan. See I hate baseball and basketball etc.. so this is what I do I know football in and out up and down so maybe I just need to relax and let people who don’t let football consume thier lives enjoy?

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know I'm a jerk

but if you didn’t know there was a 4-3 under scheme in football then WTF?

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember the average football fan

Gets most of their information from ESPN and what not that has no coverage of anything like this.

Not all posts are intended to educate/entertain you specifically.

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I forget that 50% of you guys just like

Tight uniforms and pretty colors and have no idea about real football like PLAYBOOKS. This was a good post for this site which makes me think I don’t belong here I am way beyond what is a 4-3 under scheme and if you learned anything from this post primetime you shouldn’t consider yourself a die hard football fan.That is all I am done now

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

BTW Kalo sry for messin up your post by arguing w/ people

It was a nice post

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well,
if you learned anything from this post primetime you shouldn’t consider yourself a die hard football fan.

1) Die hard fan does not equate to die hard expert. Not all of us are NFL GMs like yourself…wait.

2) And I did learn something from your post. I agree with this:

which makes me think I don’t belong here

Terrible display.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

You belong here

I imagine that most football fans never saw a College playbook
or had a high scholl coach explain why he wanted us to do this or that.

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 14, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't hate you lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never hated a chiefs fan as much as you guys lol

I’m not a GM just not a retard like some of you guys so go fuck your self and have a nice day

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

When you come into a FanPost...

(Especially one that is well written) and just start insulting people, what do you expect?

I think you’re off base in your assumption that lacking the knowledge of a 4-3 has anything to do with how much of a fan you are.

Thanks for the post. I already knew a bit about the scheme but this really solidified it and filled in some things. Rec’d!

"...said he could'nt go on the American way"

by The Steel City on Apr 14, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a defensive 46 set, with a weakside shift...

If the offense, begining in a 1 TE 3 receiver set with 1 RB in the backfield lined up in an I formation behind the QB, calls an end around reverse where the slot receiver takes an initial flat screen out toss from the QB with the TE going in motion from the strong to the weak side pre-snap:
Who on the defensive side of the ball has the weakside C gap responcibility, and who has the responcibility for the come back curl route that the #2 receiver is running?

I’m just askin’, since you’re so smart and all

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 14, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

to clairfy the question:

Who has the C gap responcibility:
a) Pre-snap, before the TE goes in motion
b) Pre-snap, after teh TE goes in motion
c) Post-snap, before the flat screen pass to the Slot
d) Post-snap, after the Slot receiver hand the ball back to the RB for the end around reverse

Who has the #2 receiver comeback curl coverage responcibility:
a) Pre-snap, pre-motion
b) Pre-snap, post motion
c) Post-snap

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 14, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas, awesome questions.

Just to let you know so things don’t reignite, he has been warned twice and he has apologized.

However, he made harsh statements not only to Prime, but towards the entire AP community. He should expect to catch some flack as users see this for the first time.

Just helping a Texas bro out. :)

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree.

I was just trying to protect you in case the flame wars broke out.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really, that was an awesome comment. Rec'd.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

ditto...

…one more to go green…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

+ many

for us that have no idea why the LB didn’t get there in time or the Safety was 5 yds away when the winning TD was scored

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 14, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.

Exactly. Rec’d.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said

and much appreciated. This isn’t a contest, and I respect Primetime’s football IQ as much as anyone I have ever seen or read. For that jerk to even say those things is absolutely ludicrous.

Sorry DTR, not trying to re-ignite. Just a gut reaction. I quite honestly never understand how something we all love so much, can cause so much contention?

by TheQ on Apr 14, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some Rally on the flag

and some Shat on it

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 14, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well Said

And I don’t know much about the technical aspects of the game. I learn a LOT on here.

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

What? :)

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was really aimed at The AFC Champ

When you think you know it all, eventually that attitude comes and bites you in the ass. It was a well intentioned comment, that didn’t come out right.

by TheQ on Apr 14, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh wait, you are messing with me!

I just saw the smiley face. Damn smiley face. Anybody go see The Watchmen. I can’t look at a smiley face the same way again. And the more I think about it DTR, you are more like Rorschach!

by TheQ on Apr 14, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

It came out perfectly.

My joke was “What?” like I wasn’t listening/hearing you.

It was my joked that failed…hard. :)

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas, since he hasn't responded, I'm gonna give it a shot for fun.

C Gap responsibility

a) Strong Safety
b) Weakside DE
c) Weakside DE
d) Weakside DE

If I’m the weakside end, I can’t see why my gap responsibility would change after the motion. Once the TE goes in motion, the DE is moving in to line up off the OT’s outside shoulder and maintaing C gap containment.

  1. Receiver (assuming that’s the weakside Split end before the TE goes in motion)

a) Cornerback
b) Cornerback
c) Free safety should be protecting the backside, particularly on a screen toss where the corner has outside contain.

Just trying to work it out. I could be way wrong on that.

by RedNose on Apr 15, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are on the right track here, but it's hard to tell....

because a 46 weakside shift alignment suggests 4 DL and 6 LB’s with 1 FS spying the QB in the backfield. So when you say “Strong Safety” I’m not sure which of the 6 LB positions you have the SS shifting up into pre-snap.
This represents a 46 weak side shift (Linemen are shifted to the weak side, Backers to the strong):

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxOCxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTExxxxxxxSLOT
************DE****DT****DT**** DE******************
******FWOLB***WOLB**WILB**SILB**SOLB***FSOLB**
***************************FS***************************

FWOLB = Far Weak OLB (Nickle or Dime coverage CB type player)
FSOLB = Far Strong OLB (Most often a M2M CB type)
SOLB = Strong OLB (in a 46 most often a SS type due to run stuff abilities)

That should help you.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was using the SS as an inside backer

That was our “46” in HS defense. The SS was our biggest DB and came up to the strong side playing like an inside backer. The CBs were still CB’s but they played tight and inside.

This is what I was thinking when answering your question:

by RedNose on Apr 15, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a perfectly valid place to put the SS/Backer

The point is to have him in a position to attack the run at the line and contain the play inside the OT.
My diagram puts him somewhere else, mainly because of the weakside shift of the line and the strong shift of the backers.

But, you’ve got the idea. When in doubt, draw it out. (Coach used to say that all the time).
Side note: The other 2 things he used to like to say all the time were:
A) You’ve got to have a wide base. If you play with a shallow base you’re a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
B) Do what i mean, not what i say!

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

To really answer your question honestly...

I didn’t give enough information in my question for anyone to actually answer it with any accuracy. I did that on purpose, because I’m evil =P

In order to answer it you would have to know if the Slot was ligned up weak or strong (you made an assumption and based you answer off that, showing that you were catching on to the holes in the question). You would also have to know if the defensive play called for a dedicated blitz, or if it was a pure coverage scheme.

Those 2 pieces of information can change almost every Gap and Zone protection responcibilities on the field.

Told you I was Evil =P

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I was thinking when I drew it up

assumed a weakside slot, and assumed a man coverage base with no blitzes.

I assumed it was a trick question anyway, I was going to just say DE for all C Gap answers and CB for all receiver coverage.

I’m just bored at work and enjoy the chalk talk.

by RedNose on Apr 15, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nerd

=)

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 16, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

me too

Maybe someone could do the same for the other possible schemes the Chiefs might run…
even if it’s “remedial” seeing this breakdown on the 3-4 or other hybrid ideas might be good…

Carroll’s comments are helpful, as they give a less biased perspective than most of us on this site.

by stagdsp on Apr 14, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

We can’t all pretend to know what we’re talking about.

And actually when you make a ridiculous comment like this it makes me want to rec it even more.

Awesome post Kalo…

I can safely say I didn’t know the finer points of the 4-3 Under…

by Dono on Apr 14, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

What did you post??

Under your username is says “0” post! A little advice…..you have to “post” to get “rec’d”…..you should know that since you are so smart….I mean any Chiefs fan knows that.

Go Chiefs!!

by Matt_Grbac on Apr 14, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

The 4-3 under

Is the best defensive scheme IMO,it stop’s the run and you can bring more pressure on the QB!

by CPT.Caveman on Apr 14, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

This would explain...

the strange comments that Tank gave on Movin the Chains yesterday. He can play nose with Dorsey at the 3 tech.

by bas on Apr 14, 2009 3:16 PM CDT reply actions  

T.J. Jackson

6ft 304, I think he could do NT. He looked good last year with the double teams. Don’t know why we didn’t see more of him last year. Oh yes,it was last year……..

by REMWHEN on Apr 14, 2009 3:33 PM CDT reply actions  

I rec'd it too

Not only because it was nice to read and see it put this way. But also because who bitches about their own poor writing and says what doesnt deserve to be rec’d. Serioulsy total dick move and doesn’t build up very good credentials with other readers.

by readANDgold58 on Apr 14, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions  

shut up I said I was done 30min ago lil late are we?

Mind your buisness and keep that dick in your mouth it keeps you from talking.

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

We all can’t sit at home at post things nonstop all day… It’s called work/school.

by Dono on Apr 14, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow,

Are you a little sensitive about the fact that you never get rec’d or what man? Maybe if your writing was so damn hateful you might be able to get some, but what the hell I have to “get back to this dick in my mouth” that is preventing me from “typing.” haha

by readANDgold58 on Apr 14, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would cuss you out but I've been warned

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

yea it's funny

I sit at arrowhead every game rain or shine till the clock hits zero no matter what! You think the ratings have went up on this site is an act of magic,no, it’s fair weather fans who know nothing about football coming back,because we have a turn around coming I am sure 50% of you guys know nothing about football except for touchdown yay! I respect anyone who knows this game in and out just not the people who just know what they read on espn. When I see people pouring out of arrowhead because it’s cold and were losing I want to punch each one in the face.

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or....

It could be because not everyone knows about the site and numbers go up because people are exposed to it’s presence…yes, that would typically be the case, in fact.

For all your football wisdom you have not really contributed anything beneficial thus far….just empty threats to hurl curse words…awesome

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

You can not teach retards only entertain them

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have been warned and now you are trolling.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's try not to inflame the situation.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

So cute and cuddly though...

…I am pretty excited about this defense, too…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. :)

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

he started the pic thing i was done

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am done now

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that's me this must be you p.s he started the pic thing lol not me

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not me...

…but it is my sister, unfortunately…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok I am done seriously no need to fight w/ every1

sry to those who hate me now lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

the 2nd warning i did not deserve though lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been re-warned

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

All i have to say is........

If you know that much about the game and it’s not how you make a living, then there’s a good chance you need to get a life!! But dont ask me, cause im one of the retart’s that just like to relax and enjoy the game!

by CPT.Caveman on Apr 14, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha!

We’re all retarts I guess :)

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

possibly out of your hand? lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is this not called a 52 Defense

I assume that the LB corp switches with the TE (flex vs solid)
Does the SLB move to other end with TE on end of left tackle?

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 14, 2009 4:53 PM CDT reply actions  

That's the idea

Within the actual article, Pete Carroll brings up several different schemes/shifts. That might help cover any questions you may have about extra receivers, TE’s, etc.

And the SLB is pushed up to the line in that picture. In reality, he’s back off the line further than the opposite DE, who’s around a yard back from the line of scrimmage and standing.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pollard

but really, in the Cover 2 we have been running since we drafted both of them, the 2 safeties are essentially doing the same thing.

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Someone who might be overlooked...

…and don’t attack me for this…

Is Boone at SDE…He plays the run pretty solid. I would also put him in rotation at the UT with Dorsey.

Like I have been saying, Dorsey fits the UT position perfect. I hope this is what we go with….

I also Rec’d this post…i guess that makes me retarded (Anne Retart) but Rec’ing isnt always about new information. This was well written and presentable and the man knows how to write in english properly. I imagine I will be told to stuff something intimately into my mouth after this comment but I think perhaps the reason your own posts aren’t Rec’d so often might have to do with abrasive attitude…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, Boone might be a fit there

At the very least, he’s depth at UT and SDE, which, oddly enough, is the position we have the most guys for!

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

And like I said on a NT post yesterday…I have no idea why Tank was told to lose so much weight to begin with…He needs to be big and heavy to take on the double teams…and and how strong he is, my word…

Also, Aaron Curry would fit the SLB slot pretty well, that is what he did best in college, get in back-field stack and shed the blocker and make the TFL…But Vrabel is also solid for that position…

Lastly, Thomas for MLB is good because he is pretty solid there but he has lacked in coverage in recent years…Dont know what could be done about that…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

afc west champs 2009

You need an attitude adjustment! Chill out. Someone isn’t a moron because they don’t know what you think they should.

by Mac'sSon on Apr 14, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

ok I've been warned lol

Thank you Carl for realizing that we are better off with you at home fingering your ass!

by afc west champs 2009 on Apr 14, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Hey afc

Why dont you write a post and enlighten us on how much you know. Break down our roster or write something we dont already know. You obviously know more about football than anyone here…so let us in on your football knowledge. Let us see if you are Rec Worthy….

Go Chiefs!!

by Matt_Grbac on Apr 14, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Point

It’s like something I learned a long time ago when we started blogging. Chris and I have never been the type to attack the MSM for writing something we disagree with. There are other sites that will attack and ridicule mainsteam media writers if they make a mistake or are wrong sometimes.

Don’t attack them. Just write something better. That’s the best way to “get back” at somebody.

by Joel Thorman on Apr 14, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

A good quote is “Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem”

Mad about not getting Rec’s…dont cry about it. Stay positive and write something with some passion and knowledge behind it and the rec’s will come…

Go Chiefs!!

by Matt_Grbac on Apr 14, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bring passion and knowledge/research

My timing sucks :)

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 14, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

You do and

you are so right. It just happens a conversation is ending when you jump in sometimes.

Not your fault at all, it’s just there isn’t much to say at that point. :)

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Educate us on something AFC West Champs 2009….Break down the Chiefs defense since 2000 and tell us why we’ve sucked on defense and don’t use the obvious excuse “It’s the talent level”…Not being a douche, I just want to know because I haven’t figured it out.

.

by Major Tom on Apr 15, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good thorough explanation.

Nice find Kalo.

To the guy who wants everyone to know how smart he is by attacking them. Put up something worthwhile without insulting people and you’ll get some respect. I don’t come on this site to read the dogshit you’ve been spitting out.

by RedNose on Apr 14, 2009 7:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Zach Thomas 2009's "NFL Comeback Player of the Year"

Love this move… All of y’all haters don’t understand how good of shape ZT is in and will be in by season. I could see “NFL Comeback Player of the Year” Also, he was a two-down linebacker at Dallas because Wade Phillips was an idiot not playing him all three downs; he played 50 – 60% percent of the time and was 2nd on the team for tackles (95) he would have eaisily made 130+ if he played all downs; Wade said that “Zach is certainly able to play all three.”

.

by ZT#54 on Apr 14, 2009 10:01 PM CDT reply actions  

"Haters?"

Pretty much everyone here likes the Zach signing.

Take your crazy somewhere else.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Crazy?

I bet Zach will have 100+ tackles and a couple of picks and sacks

.

by ZT#54 on Apr 14, 2009 10:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Lol

are you Zach Thomas?

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Apr 14, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

We like Zach.

Please throttle back a bit and realize that.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Understand

It’s just that eveyone has always given Ray Lewis, and Urlacher all the credit over the years, but when you look at the numbers, Zach BLOWS them away!!

He never gets credit like he should so I advocate for him now. That’s it.

.

by ZT#54 on Apr 14, 2009 10:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Funny...

….such a bright man as yourself doesn’t understand how to use the “reply” function…

by woodman212 on Apr 14, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

ZT,

Please understand you came in here with both barrels blazing in many threads with some offending statements to the community.

Some people are just seeing them and are naturally taking offense.

You seem to realize that we like Zach, but we aren’t irrational enough to think he will save the team. Please, continue the calm and reasonable thoughts you have started to post elsewhere.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.

I should not start threads anymore. We’ve got all sorts of arguments and people getting offended in here. ;-)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 14, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Such is the plight of the highly rec'd. :)

With great attention comes great noobery.

"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"

I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.

by DThomasReigns on Apr 14, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

No Kalo

You did just fine,now all us retart’s know what a 4-3 under scheme look’s like! I just have one question, what does all those X’s and O’s stand for? :P

by CPT.Caveman on Apr 15, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought that we were switching to a 3-4 under, not a 4-3 under

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 7:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Just basing it off of Pendergast

He’s run a 4-3 Under recently, and after Tank’s comments, it seems a likely possibility. Not ruling out the 3-4 Under, it just seems we have most of the personnel for the 4-3 Under.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Based on his comments about playing NT WHILE Glenn played 3-Technique…

by woodman212 on Apr 15, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought the big discussion yesterday was about a 3-4 under

where Tank would be the NT (I think in a 1-tech on the weakside of the center), Dorsey (one DE) would be in a 3-tech on the strong side, with the SOLB outside of him, and McBride/whoever (the other DE) would be on the weakside in a 5-tech.

I think we ran a 4-3 under at times last season…didn’t we see DJ up on the line in a 7-tech a few times each game?

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did we?

Maybe our linebackers were so bad last year, I blocked out what most of them did. :-)

In all seriousness, I remember Dorsey being doubled on so much last year by the guard and the center, which would be possible, but he’d have to be constantly filling the gap between those two guys. I need to go back and re-watch some more of the games on the posted site to see if/when we ran it last year.

Either way, our LB corps is so much stronger this year that I’m okay with running 3-4 or 4-3.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think we did

Now it wasn’t exactly like the drawing you provided, because, as you mentioned, Dorsey was in a 2-tech a LOT last season (and actually, I think he was head up over the weakside guard most of the time)

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

We were discussing a 4-3 under yesterday PV

From the article posted above:

The open side Defensive End has to be one of your best football players. Size does not matter as much. We want an athletic player who can move around.

That is the predator player we were talking about. They didn’t illustrate it well, but that DE/OLB should be off the line slightly. Or I could just be way off in my interpretation of the formation.

by RedNose on Apr 15, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, you're absolutely correct.

They’ve also got the SLB right up on the TE in that diagram, which also isn’t the case.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah

In my mind, I was categorizing the “predator” as a LB…I guess depending on who plays “predator”, the same defense could be a 3-4 or a 4-3 =)

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Technically the Predator is a LB...

However, in most under schemes the Predator/Jack backer doesn’t begin out of a classic LB position. They play about 1/2 way between the Linemen and the LB’s in depth. Their role is much closer to that of a 43 DE. They play almost exclusivly as a pass rusher (think Jared Allen) with minor responcibilities in the C gap and the screen/flat pass patern. (unless the defense calls a CB or Safety blitz on the jack backer side)

This allows them a few advantages as a pass rusher over a classic 43 End.
1) They get to start a couple yards back from the line allowing them a better post-snap read of the the movements of the TE/RB in the pass game.
2) They get to play on their feet without their hand in the dirt, so they don’t have to have the same kind of burst ability from a 3 point stance as a DE
3) Because they start a couple yards back they get a little bit of a momentum advantage in the pass rush because they are already comming full steam ahead by the time they reach a blocker
4) They don’t have to start the play locked into the chest of an OT or a TE and therefore they don’t necessairly need the height or the arm length to lock out if they have the althletism, speed, or ‘moves’ to get around the blocker.

The position has it’s disadvantages as well, because most of the time everyone on the offense already knows who the pass rusher is going to be. A good OC will make sure to toss a RB over to chip at the Predator/Jack Backer. And because they start back further from the line than a DE they need to have the speed to get in the QB’s face before they can get the ball out with a quick hand off/pass release. In addition, because the Predator is comming in full speed ahead over pursuit is always a danger. OC’s will use the over pursuit aspect of the position to disguise runs and bounce them to the outside after the Predator passes by, and the same with delayed pass patterns. It’s not uncommon for the OC to call a play where a RB/Slot/TE chips the Predator quickly and then slide directly into the gap the Predaor leaves in pursuit of the QB for short dump passes.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

For the purposes of the offset under scheme...

The other 3 LB’s on the field (Sam/Mike/Will) will basically consider the Jack/Predator backer to be a DE pass rusher. The rest of the LB’s won’t be playing classic 34 LB roles. Instead, their responcibilities will be more in line with the classic 43 LB roles, with an emphysis on the coverage/run stuffing abilities of the Mike Backer haveing a large area of responcibility.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gotcha

thanks!

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which may beg the question...

Dallas took Thomas off the field in obvious passing situations. I don’t doubt his run stuffing ability, so who’s our 3rd down back? Are Beisel’s pass coverage abilities better than Thomas’?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

At the moment...

Your guess is as good as mine.
If I were the DC I would be shifting DJ to MLB on obvious passing downs and trying to make due with Demario Williams or Monte Beisel comming in to play the will, but only because DJ is the tallest midget (that’s not a height comparison. He’s the best of the sad sack of choises we have at MLB – Touting his abilities as a MLB is akin to the tallest midget of the group bragging about his height). We don’t have anyone on the roster at the current time that has shown the ability to play both the A gap run support as well as shallow pass coverage from the MLB position.

The Chiefs are in desperate need of an athletic MLB capable of both run stuffing and pass coverage. And they have been for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 years. I’m really hoping that adding Zach Thomas to the roster is a precursor to drafting an Aaron Curry or Rey Maleluga to act as a mentor to the future defensive leader.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

TC, I answered your question above (i think)

Don’t think the other dude is going to respond.

by RedNose on Apr 15, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has Curry Projected well as a Mike?

I thought most people were thinking he’d fit best at Sam…

I think we should definitely consider looking at Holzclaw as an understudy to Thomas, and hope he can grow into our Mike for years to come (or, my first preference, trade down and grab Rey-Rey or James L. to be our Mike)

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Apr 15, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Curry

Most are saying he can play just about anywhere in the LB corps. I’d think he’s closer to a Mike than he is to a 3-4 OLB, and I’ve heard him there, too.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Although I’d hate to have those guys on the bench after spending a first rounder on either one. At least Curry could come in and play backup for Thomas AND Vrabel. Maualuga’s more in the following of Thomas’ breed.

I guess Williams wouldn’t be a bad option in the passing game. I seem to remember his coverage skills being decent. I don’t like DJ in the Mike position, but I agree: right now he’s the fastest turtle we’ve got. :-)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just for the sake of humility...

I’d like to point out again, as i have before on other threads…

I do my best to answer the D questions that I see posed on AP because of my love for the game, and more specifically the D. I don’t ever ever ever want to come off sounding like I’m some kind of know it all asshole, and i hope I don’t appear that way to anyone. I can be wrong just like anyone else and don’t claim to know everything about NFL schemes and protections. I am basing my answers on what i know from college ball + what i read in books and on websites. I try to devour any technical D info that I can find because I’m such a huge fan of defensive football.

Don’t hesitate to call me out, or tell me I’m wrong just because I’ve been right about something in the past. Challenge me on whatever you think I’m wrong about. I’ll admit I’m dead wrong if I see the evidence on paper and I will bow to your superority =P

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Apr 15, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

So far, so good in this thread

But I can try really hard to come up with something if you’re in need of humility. No guarantees on the “evidence on paper”, though. ;-)

Honestly, you’ve contributed a lot to the analysis, thank you. :-D

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Apr 15, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thomas is good in coverage

Yo bubba… Zach is no lady in pass coverage. Did you see him shut down Jason Witten his last year as a phin? I mean Jason Witen for goodness sake? He does have 17 INTs, 68 PD, and 4 INTs for a touchdown. He don’t play…Wade Phillips is just stupid. Wade Phillips couldn’t run a lemonade stand if asked…I think last year proved that

.

by ZT#54 on Apr 16, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your dedication

to your man-crush is truly astounding ZT

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Apr 16, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

why I joined this site

Not to be an arse-kisser, excellent posts like this one Kalo, is the reason why I joined this site. This diagram is clear and simple for the fans like me who haven’t reached guru status.

by SanJoseChief on Apr 15, 2009 8:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't listen

Kalo, Iv’e read worse. AFCWest needs to spend a little more time with the girls instead of the boys.

by KC GAMER on Apr 15, 2009 10:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Interesting

in this video, at the very end…

Haley says: "we lined up the entire time in an “under”….

then he called it the “base defense”

that’s the most definitive thing I’ve heard yet!

I like it!

by stagdsp on Apr 17, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe our D of the future was also the D of our past

Maybe the 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid is actually the True D of the next 5 yrs.
We can use any college players that fit our idea of Team and can adjust
based on the O of the team we are to play that week.
With Smart, Fast…. players the D can scheme for the O just as the O schemes for the D.
Take advantage of what the weaknesses of each team are.

you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 18, 2009 5:58 PM CDT reply actions  

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