The Falcons are seriously considering trading for Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez and might even give up their second-round pick to make the deal.
The National Football Post | Notes From Lombardi: Sunday Edition
dkluger838 originally posted this. Head over to his FanPost for discussion.
almost 3 years ago
Chris Thorman
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Bad Idea
I’ve never been in favor of trading a proven player for a prospect. Its just bad business. Besides, we are going to need all the guns we can get for Hailey’s offense. Especially since our offense is what is going to make this year bearable.
Also
Cottam will be able to learn under a Hall of Fame TE and probably will get better in the process
All the guns we need
is absolutely right
by KansasCityShuffle on Apr 12, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Pull the trigger
As I said on the fanpost
Tony Gonzalez has two years left in him and a second round draft choice will do more for the Chiefs at this point that TG will. Plus we have Cottam, he ran under Gonzalez for a year now and was used dominantly to help Damion Macintosh block on the right side. A second round choice could get us a top 5 RT and allow us to use Cottam in more conventional ways.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I think you got that backwards
at this point TG can do more for the Chiefs than a 2nd rounder, in the future a 2nd rounder can do more for the Chiefs than TG.
As for Cottam, on paper he looks great but fact remains he’s inexperienced & unproven. He has a massive amout of potentail but thats nothing if it can never be realized. I now feel more optimistic about his future in the hands of Pioli than I do Peterson & Edwards, but until he shows he can produce I don’t see how he can be looked at seriously as Gonzalez’s replacement. Those are big shoes to fill for anybody
by KansasCityShuffle on Apr 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
No I had it right
The Chiefs don’t end after this year. A second round choice has more to offer to the organization than Gonzalez does. I’d take a RT or WR to come in and play for the next 10-12 years on a rebuilding team than a legendary 33 year old TE on a rebuilding team, it just makes more sense to go with the young guy, especially when we have Cottam. While I know Cottam is unproven his potential is outstanding, he’s big fast and smart.. Pioliesque to the T.
At the same time I’m a tad conflicted. With all of Pioli’s drafting talent he has never drafted a solid TE.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
See but that term "rebuilding" seems to have left the vocabulary...
and rightly so. With the Falcons and the Dolphins to frame these 3-5 rebuilding periods is a death sentence in the NFL. Cut the fat, make smart moves and do it in two, max, that’s the new NFL. Sitting on this “rebuilding” label disaffects your vets, hence our current situation, and scares off FA’s.
Hopefully the mantra around Arrowhead is an expectation to win THIS year, not unrealistically but it’s fair to say that any NFL team with a reasonably aggressive front office should go into the season expecting to win 10 or more games. That said, we’d be happy with at least 6 W’s, it’d be a strong step in the right direction.
Part of it is that any 2nd rounder we get is not likely to match Tony’s value over the next two season in any season of their career. So then the math is do you get 10 “pretty good” for 2 “great?” well how sure are you of this second rounder’s potential. It’s dicey at best.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Apr 12, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
right about the math
but I could make the same case.
Tony is 33. Out of the spread will he make such an impact?
Remember a sixth round draft choice is the best QB in the biz right now. I’m not necessarily saying a second round pick is a lock, however considering our current needs on the O line and d line a Kruger, Wood, Meredith, Sintim, Unger, Gilbert, Brace, Moala, Cadogan, Sidbury, or Loadholt pick is worth the risk
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
1) You have no idea that we are going to run the spread
2) Tony would be the best TE in the history of the league in the spread too – in fact, you could argue he’d be even better in the spread, because of the lack of safety help for the linebacker covering Tony
Earler you wrote
Tony Gonzalez has two years left in him and a second round draft choice will do more for the Chiefs at this point that TG will
And that is not true – the likelihood of us drafting a guy in Round 2 that will immediately provide an upgrade over having Gonzalez is so improbable that it’s practically impossible.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
why does everyone think I'm talking about this season
I know Tony G is the best TE of all time it’s just that he only has two years left in him. We don’t look like playoff contenders this year or even next year, TG is good for a team looking to make a bowl run in the next two years like the Atlanta Falcons. The Chiefs on the other hand are developing a lot of youngsters, we have time for a second round draft pick to develop with everyone else so we can have a TEAM. TG even if he does good this year and the next will not be a part of our super bowl TEAM, theres a higher chance that a younger TE like Cottam will be the TE for that TEAM.
Think of it this way. If Tony G matches his performance from last year over the next two years (though there’s a higher chance he slightly declines over the next two seasons) that’ll leave us with 2,116 yards. A rookie could give us a lot more than that over 12 seasons.
For example. Zach Miller a second round draft choice had 778 yards. Assuming he maintains such a performance until he gets to 35 (the age Gonzalez will either retire or become to old to be effective if he decides to stay) he’ll have produced 9,336 yards.
While I’m not saying we trade Tony and pick up a TE with the pick I am saying the longevity factor provided with a young, second round player holds more potential for the sustained success of this franchise.
There will probably be another TG for a very long time, and the guy to beat all of Tony’s numbers probably won’t even be a Chief. But were not looking to replace Tony were looking to build a team.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
You're right
NaNz to a curtain degree! I only reason im against the trade would be because we could go to the play off’s this yr, and maybe the S.B! It’s looking better all the time, with the right 4 guy’s in the draft, we could be a really good team! Being offered a 2nd rd pick for T.G after he has played in this league for 10 yrs is amazing if you think about it! What other TE that has ever played in the NFL would you ever come off of a 2nd rd pick for, none!Who could we get at 55,any idea’s?
yeh
He means more to us this year but do you really see us being a contender before he retires in two years. Cottam gonna take the reigns someitmes might as well get something out of gonzalez and let him have his wish to go to a contender.
Yeah
Weve been spoiled here by our future HOF TE! It’s going to be hard for anyone to come in here after he is gone!
For just a 2nd?
We mean on paper with Cassel, Engram and Haley he should be a lock for another 90+ reception 900+ yard season?
The Falcons are 23 (55th overall).
We like Cottam and all, and not to sound too homerish but they gotta sweeten the deal more than that. Even a 2nd and 5th feels like a stretch. Maybe a conditional (read lock barring freak injury) 3rd next year?
TG may only have a couple years left but that’s not to say his play has diminished at all.
We’d love to get that second back, but a lot of situational factors cutting against it. Maybe this is a “grumpy Tony” price, but the talent to value doesn’t jive for us with just a straight up 2nd.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Apr 12, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions
I dunno
Ill trade LJ for a 2nd. If LJ left there wouldn’t be as much of a hole in our running back corps. If you trade Tony G., or Brian Waters, you have a huge gaping hole. But then again, Tony G. probably only has about 2-3 years more gas in the tank. This will probably be the most we can get for him.
But then again, you have to go a few levels deeper and look at the intangibles. Take Bernard “the butterfly” Pollard for instance. He flaps his wings and… One, thePatriots take a nose dive in 08. Two, Pioli makes the decision to jump the NE ship (possibly brought on by the lull in Superbowl grinding momentum that NE has built up)
Three, Castle emerges as a star and is taken by the chiefs for a second rounder. Four, Vrable is taken by that same second rounder. Five, hilarity ensues in Denver as Cutler is out and Neckbeard is in. There will probably be a sixth but the probability waves of Bernard “chaos theory” Pollard have not crashed into reality….yet.
On that note, Tony G. might have some wings of his own. Try this on for size. Castle wins the QB position and puts up excellent numbers in the first 8 games of 09. D. Bowe and Tony G. spread the defensive protection to give castle such good numbers. Castle goes down with a Groin injury and is out the rest of the season. Pigpen steps and puts up numbers as excellent as Castle. Before the 2010 draft Pigpen is traded to team X for a 1st and 3rd round pick. These QB’s wouldn’t have shined like this, but for Tony G.’s excellent 09 performance.
Or maybe something like this. In the 2011 draft Chiefs take “Dick Champion”. Dick Champion is the top TE in the 2011 draft. Dick Champion will benefit from Tony G.’s last 2 or so years in the League. Cottam? come on. And, you guys just know Tony G. is gona play till hez 40.
Ok, chew on that for now.
Your disrepscet for spelling and conventional logic is impressive...
but most of all we like your introduction of chaos theory.
We shall call you Dr. Ian Malcolm
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Apr 12, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
LJ
If somebody gives a 2nd for LJ there will be an investigation.
STUPID STUPID STUPID --- THIS TRADE WOULD BE STUPID
Get my point hopefully….Let’s Trade our best player for a unproven prospect that may never even prove to be anything!
Again, we need all of our star players here this year! Haley and Pioli obviously want to win now, and trading Gonzalez just automatically puts us out of the playoff picture if we even had a chance!
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions
no worries
where in this article does it show any merit that the chiefs are willing to do this. It says the Falcons want to trade for him and would give up a 2nd…Gonzo isnt going anywhere, close thread
I'd Pull The Trigger In A Heartbeat
Nothing against Tony, but a 2nd round pick is probably worth it at this point in his career for the caliber of player we’d get in return. And it would put him on a good team to end his career.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
Agreed...we were offered a 3rd and TG agreed he thought he was worth a 4th during the trade deadline
The fact remains that although he’s a fine player and the best chiefs player, statistically performance decreases with age.
If we traded him before the “I want to go to a contender” speech last year, it would be much more difficult IMO. But, if we pull this trade and although he did a great job for us, I won’t cry crocodile tears.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Two Men Enter
One man leaves.
I don’t care if that was considered the weakest of the Mad Max trilogy, that movie was awesome. Although not as awesome as “The Road Warrior”
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
omg...dude, it had Tina Turner actually on screen in a feeble attempt to act.
That movie ranks right up there with Waterworld…only a GF III hater would like that flick ;-)
Here’s a scary image:
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Yes, But...
Tina Turner was no worse at acting than the dude who played Lord Humongus in “Road Warrior”. The "Mad Max" trilogy was cool but I mean, let’s face it…Shakespeare it wasn’t. :)
The Godfather saga, on the other hand, was Shakespearean, and yet it was befouled by the stink of a supposed third film (which does not now and has never existed) starring flavor of the month Andy Garcia and Sofia Coppola (who is a decent director, but a crappy actress).
And did "Godfather III" have a Thunderdome in it? Or Master Blaster? Or a bitching chase scene at the end where the hero is left to walk off into the desert alone? Hell no it didn’t. "Godfather III" didn’t have a single cool thing about it. Or, more precisely, it hypothetically didn’t have a single cool thing about it…since the film doesn’t exist.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
Not enough for T.G.
Should they make this trade Atlanta should be willing to pop for a little more. Consider the New Orleans trade for Shockey. I believe there was two draft picks involved a 2nd and a 5th rounder. Regardless of the age difference in the two tight ends , Shockey couldn’t carry Tony’s jock… Maybe a 2 this year and a 2 next season , Tony G. is the best tight end in the game. The 55th overall pick isn’t worth the gamble. JMO>..
blu
Regardless of the age difference in the two tight ends
Actually the age difference is one of the really big reasons for the difference in picks. You can’t just throw that aside since it’s a factor.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I did a post on this topic on 28 MAR
giving in depth reasons why this trade makes sense for both teams. If you care to check out the post the link is here
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/3/28/813318/trade-that-makes-the-most
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