Falcons still (and maybe now more) interested in Gonzalez?
by dkugler838 on Apr 12, 2009 11:34 AM CDT
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PrintCould have been in the Fanshots but I feel like this is a topic worth posting about.
Courtesty of Mike Lombardi at National Football Post:
The Falcons are seriously considering trading for Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez and might even give up their second-round pick to make the deal.
What does this mean for the offense? Not sure - outside of the fact that Cassel will lose his most reliable target. The Chiefs would snag a very good deal here in a 2nd rounder. You could look at it like we traded TG for Cassel and Vrabel AND keep Tony out of the AFC - if you feel more comfortable. I'd take that trade.
My thoughts are that if this deal were to be made (and I would think this is the best we'll be offered unless we get some desperate teams come draft day) Pioli would get the #3 and #55 pick to get both O-Line and pass rushing/coverage LB. Interesting to see how this plays out....
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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the chiefs can also snag a 5th round pick which i think Pioli can we should take it and use the 5th on Coffman. Insanely athletic TE.
Better than Cottam
I saw Coffman a lot versus Nebraska, but Cottam runs a 4.5 40 yd dash (or something like that) and hasn’t been given a chance to start yet. I wonder if we go TE in this draft at all…
crazy
Haley is ready to make this team win in 2009. If you guys really want to trade TG for a 2nd RD pick and to use it for picking another inexperience TE? That’s nuts. How in the world can u make the logic behind using an inexperience rookie TE to improve your passing or blocking vs. a Pro-bowl TE? If you recall, when TG was drafted in 1997, despite all the big hype of how good he could become, his rookie year was still less than impressive. If you say to draft a rookie TE because TG has 1-2 years left, so why not get someone younger? that’s even crazier. This team is not about JUST GETTING YOUNGER, Pioli and Haley wants FOOTBALL players… 53 guys that will make this team competitive and start winning. An unproven rookie vs a perenial Pro Bowler..should not even be discussed. If you say to trade TG because he really wants out, and we will use the pick for picking a potential starter with the 2nd pick (assuming we get a 2nd RD), then FINE. But don’t be looking to replace a ProBowl TE with some unproven rookie. Thats NUTS.
by 58 was my friend on Apr 13, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Cottam blocks, Coffman doesn't. End of story.
Although Coffman is an amazing receiving TE.
Ilike more bodies
But i thought TG was going to help casselget cofortable with his new team? Like 3000 say’s,do you have to get a TE somewhere then?
Got to pull the Trigger for a #2 pick
Everything is based upon not wasting the pick by drafting a bust but..
1) TG wants out
2) Cottam certainly appears to be the real deal so drop of is not huge
3) TG would only be around 1-2 more years anyway vs. 5-6+ if the #2 is not wasted
4) significant help on the pass rush or keeping Cassel upright and healthy may be worth more even in the short term than TG effectiveness
5) You always want to trade a player year too early than a year to late or not being able to at all.
by 500miles2Arrowhead on Apr 12, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Being a Tigers fan, I like Chase Coffman but...
Not enough to spend another draft pick on a TE. I think Cottam is going to be a great TE in this league. It does not hurt that he spent his first year studying under a future hall of famer.
That kid has the goods. If they do go after another TE, I hope it is more of a strong blocking Jason Dunn type.
he isnt bad but he really
isnt a lot like TG he can learn some but you cant teach athleticism like TG has and Coffman has shown sparks of . ithink Cottam works with Coffman for a while then is trade bait
coffman hasnt
shown any more ability than cottam has, cottam was injured his sr year in college and thats why he dropped all the way to the 3rd rd when origional projections had im late 1st to 2nd. nobody we draft will ever live up to the legacy left by TG so comparing anyone to him is stupid….chiefsfan1970 is right we need a solid blocking te to compliment cottam just like we had in jason dunn to compliment TG
my sentiments exactly
a 7th rounder or UdFA would suffice at this junction
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I disagree
Will we even use a line up that has 2 TE’s, with this new offense? Can we at least give Cottam a chance to prove himself before we pass judgement!
I agree
there a reason coffman is falling to late rounds and cottam was taking in the third.
If we could get second round pick do it.
Addition by subtraction. Everyone else will have to step up! He is my favorite player, but we need to get younger. We could maybe get Robiskie with the pick.
+1 Yay, Robiskie!
"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.
by DThomasReigns on Apr 12, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
i still say keep TG
i’m not comfortable with our WR core and why get rid of mr. reliable when we need him the most?
"stuck in Dallas"
because we have a roster full of giant holes....
And you can’t build your team for the future while holding on to the past.
TG is GREAT, we’re talking best ever to play the position. I will be a TG fan no matter where he goes, but I’m a Chiefs fan first and foremost, and if the Chiefs can get a 2nd rounder with 10 years of future potential that fills a major void on the team (OLB, DE, OC, RT, ILB) than the 10 year potential outweighs the 1 or 2 years TG has left.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
or the 2nd round pick could be a bust and in that case there is 0 years of potential
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
even if it is a bust
we won’t know for sure for at least 2 years, which is the same time frame of Tony’s career.
And if you want to play the game:
TG could roll out on the first play and tear an ACL and be out forever.
There is a chance for anything to happen. The point is, TG has a year or 2 left at best. He is the best TE ever to play the game, but his time is comming to an end. The Chiefs need to build their team for the future, and you can’t get something for nothing. TG has value atm. Next year he may not have value. We have an oppertunity to improve our team as a whole for the cost of 1-2 years worth of production at one single position.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
putting things into perspective
Kellen Winslow was traded for a 2nd round pick
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Don't Do It.
I dont like the idea of getting rid of Tony. He’s too valuable to our team and that would take away probably Matt Cassel’s biggest, most dependable target. Bad idea to get rid of him with only a 2nd rounder.
In Pioli We Trust
A New Era Has Begun
Legitimate argument
Depends on if the Chiefs add any decent receiver help. Or Brad Cottam better turn out to be ready to play.
by Chris Thorman on Apr 12, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Pull the trigger
A second round pick would do more for our team than TG at this point. Speaking in all actuality the chances of us going to a super bowl this or next year is slim. Considering TG’s only got two years left in him a developed second rounder holds more potential to do more for our team.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Your insane if you think a 2nd round pick will do more for the chiefs than Tony G
Are you being serious…Wow..That’s all I have to say..
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Ill just repost what I put on the fanshot
I know Tony G is the best TE of all time it’s just that he only has two years left in him. We don’t look like playoff contenders this year or even next year, TG is good for a team looking to make a bowl run in the next two years like the Atlanta Falcons. The Chiefs on the other hand are developing a lot of youngsters, we have time for a second round draft pick to develop with everyone else so we can have a TEAM. TG even if he does good this year and the next will not be a part of our super bowl TEAM, theres a higher chance that a younger TE like Cottam will be the TE for that TEAM.
Think of it this way. If Tony G matches his performance from last year over the next two years (though there’s a higher chance he slightly declines over the next two seasons) that’ll leave us with 2,116 yards. A rookie could give us a lot more than that over 12 seasons.
For example. Zach Miller a second round draft choice had 778 yards. Assuming he maintains such a performance until he gets to 35 (the age Gonzalez will either retire or become to old to be effective if he decides to stay) he’ll have produced 9,336 yards.
While I’m not saying we trade Tony and pick up a TE with the pick I am saying the longevity factor provided with a young, second round player holds more potential for the sustained success of this franchise.
There will probably be another TG for a very long time, and the guy to beat all of Tony’s numbers probably won’t even be a Chief. But were not looking to replace Tony were looking to build a team.
Is wow all you will say or all you can say
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Wow is all I will say because it doesn't matter what stats you flash or what arguement you
use, it doesn’t make any sense to trade away the greatest TE in the game for a prospect that may never even get off the bench..
This team wants to win now, and I think Pioli will keep Tony G because without him, this season is done before it begins
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
if you look at players for what they HAVE done against what they WILL do
TG is the obvious choice, but then again that’s why Carl Peterson brought in Ty Law and Donnie Edwards. But looking at your arguments you’ll probably say they were good investments and you were probably of the group that was confused when we cut them
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I am not taking sides with this comment,
but if you present that you will not listen to any statistics or arguments that are contrary to your view, then you are being irrational.
That also tends to remove any credibility from your sentiments. You may be right, but refusing to acknowledge any and all facts opposing your stance want take you very far.
"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.
by DThomasReigns on Apr 12, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
My point was that I'm aware of what a new player brings, and I'm aware of what Tony
brings to the table..
We can either keep a proven player or trade him for future potential value and I’d rather go with the proven player since it’s the only “known” at this point..
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
which is how you end up with...
An offensive line with 5 30+ year old players that have no trade value, and not enough draft picks to replace any of them.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
best case you could make to a Chiefs fan I guess
we all long for our dominant O line again and don’t want to be let down like we are now ever again lol
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Which reminds me of the mid-70's KC Chiefs
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 12, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting Draft Picks is not our Goal!
Winning games is. Tony is a key to making that happen in so many ways. I want sure hands. I want to win those jump balls. I want a receiver who fights for those extra yards and always seems to fall forward after the tackle. I want a guy who drags linebackers down the field. I want a comfortable safe target for Cassel and Thigpen. I want that extra first down that keeps our defense off the field an extra minute. I want it all and thats why I want Tony to stay.
winning games is not our goal, building a team is.
It’s the coaches/players job to win games. It’s the GM’s job to build a team.
From the perspective of building a team a 2nd round pick with 10 years of future potential is much much much more valuable to a team with glaring holes at several positions than a TE with 1-2 years left in the tank.
In juxtposition to CALIFAN1986’s:
Your insane if you think a 2nd round pick will do more for the chiefs than Tony G
i would reply:
You’re (not your) insane if you think a 32+ year old TE with 1-2 years left in the game will do more for the Chiefs than a 2nd round draft pick with 10+ of potential to fill any of the 6 or 7 glaring holes on the team. If the ‘team’ could be above average – average at a position we are currently awful at, that’s worth dropping from elite to average at another position. It fills a hole and makes you a more complete team.
TG cannot, has not, and will not ever win a game by himself. It takes a team to win games and if getting weaker at 1 position but fixing an obvious hole somewhere else makes you a better team than it’s worth it to the guy building the team.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Its the old Chicken or the Egg kind of question
What you’re saying isn’t wrong and its very reasonable. Its just that, dammit, there’s a lot more to eat on a chicken then there is on an egg, and Tony G’s been cluckin pretty good for a pretty long time and likely to keep cluckin too. lol
But
he’s getting old and we got to replace him with a potential bigger chicken before he loses all his fat
can we get one with hot sauce? I like hot sauce on my chicken.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
wait. Now I'm confused. I was actually taking about chicken (chicken) and how sauce (hot sauce)
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Yes building a team got us pretty far last season with 2 wins..
Winning games is always the goal..Any other goal in the NFL is ignorance..And Pioli has already made it very clear that this team plans to win now..We have plenty of young talent, we need the leadership..
And Yes Tony’s talent lies in the past, but he is still the best TE in the game this year and maybe even next year..You have an elite position player here and I wouldn’t get rid of him..But we’ll see what happens
by CALIFAN1986 on Apr 12, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
we didn't build a team last year. We layed a foundation.
Regardless of what 2008 Miami Dolphins accomplished, you don’t build a team in one season. When your team is as awful as the Chiefs have been (never having a complete team, always only having an O or a D, and getting older and older by the season) it takes more than 1 offseason to rebuild.
The Chiefs are a rebulding team. We’re going into year 2 of a rebuild. Winning now absolutely should be the #1 priority of the coaches and players, but you don’t build a competative team that is a consistent winner by playing for only the now. The guy in charge of building the team has to be a ‘big picture’ guy. Almost every year Pioli came out of the draft having added more picks to next years draft. That wasn’t because he was a poor deal maker. It’s because he is smart enough to build a team 2 or 3 seasons into the future.
You KEEP the team in the best possible situation by thinking about tomorrow as much as you think about today. Selling out the future for the present is a Carl Peterson philosophy. Holding on to players until long after the time that they have any value is a Carl Peterson system. Letting the team continue to slide and slide because this or that guy ‘probably’ has 1 year left in him is a Carl Peterson move.
Have we already forgotten the last 12 years? Building a team is a balancing act between the present and the future. Carl Peterson ran it as a balance between the present and the past.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Pioli must play 3-dimensional chess
Wow I wish I could think spacially like that :)
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I think...
Take it if they will give the Chiefs a 2nd and another pick (5 or a 6)
That way, they have a chance to get another TE prospect and a solid starter from the 2nd round.
Ever since the Cassel trade, I’ve been looking at the projected 2nd round picks, and there seem to be a ton of great prospects that I’d love to see in Red and Gold. Getting that pick back would be a big win for the Chiefs.
I’d hate to see TG go… he’s been the best. But, if he has to go sometime, I’d rather get something out of the deal. 2 draft picks this year, especially the way Pioli drafts, could be a great help to the team, and hopefully more than enough to offset the loss of a HOF TE.
It would seem that Waters should be in this conversation as well.
A 2nd or 3rd would allow us to pick up a new starter in this draft.
you don't have to win and you don't need to fight. Supertramp
by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 12, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing we have been omitting is
that at the trade deadline last season many of us on here were livid with King Carl for not pulling the trade for a 3rd rounder with GB.
Now we are claiming a 2nd isn’t enough?
I really am on the fence, but not rationally so. I don’t want TG to leave, but that is an emotional reaction.
If a 3rd was good enough last year for us, a 2nd should not be as much of a question.
"You said you was gonna take me to see Wu-Tang baby ...So I braided my hair, yes I did, cornroll and everything baby"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm...and Billie Holiday.
I trust Pioli with a second round pick
This isn’t the Peterson era anymore. This guy seems to cover all his bases. He could easily find a starter with the second and fill a need. Cottam looked pretty good and he is fast. He is no TG but like I said earlier it is going to make other people step up!
I say we go 4 WR...
Use Cottam but if we add a 2nd for TG u have to take it and I would like to make a trade to get us Braylon Edwards and line up with .
1. Edwards
2. Bowe
3. Engram
4. Bradley
AND i do think Haley would help Bowe and Edwards with the drops…if you look at that stat most of the tops drops players are Pro Bowlers (TO, Moss, etc)
Waters still can provide some leadership on the line.
if you can’t trade down. still take a left tackle!
For a 2nd round pick, no.
ONE pick could end up being a bust. For a 3rd and a 5th, I’d say heck yes. For a 3rd and a 4th, I’d say hell yes. Getting two picks for a player is important.
The picks are not the same...
yea – it’s a #2, but not like The Chiefs #2…so using it to reveal value in the Cassell trade does not work. The Falcons pick is much farther down the draft board.
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