LITTLE NERVOUS ON HALEY!!!!!
by kcman16 on Mar 4, 2009 12:40 PM CST
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PrintOk so he is a good coach but is he going to be a superbowl winning coach I have seen good coaches with bad communication not win anything, but then I have seen Tom be the coach no player wants to play with then he transformed his act and they went on to beat the unbeatable patriots in the super bowl......I have a red flag when it concerns Brian Waters.....out of all the people to treat unfairly the only guy who has stuck around and done good things both on and off the field needs to be treated with respect....Haley better respect the players or there will be no respect for him.....you will see alot more disgruntled players if this continues to be his actions...I dont doubt he is a good coach but can he get his players to play for him you guys can down Herms Coaching all you want but the one thing he did do was have respect for his players and they did play hard for him all the way...and haley who couldnt get the cardnials to play worth a lick in a snowy game is a red flag to me...I want to see him succeed....As for Scott I respect what he has done and is doing....but just because he was not former patriot doesnt mean that chiefs players dont deserve respect espically the proven ones who can help you win.....I just hope things can be resolved and Haley and Scott can get there players to play for them and not want to be released or traded every year.
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Bill Parcels
is the person Haley looks up to. Look at what Parcells did when he got to Miami. He told Jason Taylor to get with the program or get out. I believe Haley is the same way. It didn’t work out to bad for the Dolphins.
COME ON PEOPLE....
Let it go. We obviously haven’t heard the whole story on this. Brian Waters is refusing interviews about it, Pioli and Haley won’t comment on it. We don’t know what actually happened. Whitlock wrote this as a reporter not as a columnist. He was a terribly written story. We don’t know what context these comments were made in, nor do we know what Waters said to them. Jason Whitlock needs to stick to being a columnist and leave the reporting to the professionals. I’m not saying Waters lied but there as got to be more to this.
Come on do you really believe that the conversation went like this, Hi Brian I’m Todd Haley and I could have gotten 22 players off of the street and won two games. Give me a break, I really can’t believe that. There are two sides to every story and we haven’t heard either party comment.
This is a non story blown out of proportion by Whitlock. Waters got his feelings hurt and ran to the first person that would listen and cried!!!!
Waters will just have to get over it, buck up and play!
I'm starting to think some people here think Brian Waters
shares the same stage with the Pope.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
In any Chiefs fans eyes
he should.
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Will Shields
would have kept his mouth shut
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
+1000
Exactly. Can you see Shields or Alt showing up the day before FA, unannounced, want ing to know the plan?
Waters is a smart guy. He knows the freaking plan. Add players we think can help us win. Get rid of those who don’t. Treat everyone the same. Reclaim the asylum from the inmates.
He showed up looking for a pat on the head for making the Pro-Bowl. He wanted to hear:
“Geewizz Brian, sure glad you stopped by! I wanted to make sure you knew that we don’t consider you to be one of the jokers we plan to get rid of. Hey, while you’re here, can you tell us what players we should keep?!?!?! do you have any friends who are free agents that we should sign?!?!?! What are their phone #s?!?!?!? How’s the coleslaw at Jack Stack?”
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Jack Stack
is sooo good. It’s lunch hour here and I really wished you wouldn’t have mentioned them. Their spicy BBQ sauce, corn side dish, ooooooooooooo baby
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Why?
He is just a football player getting paid to play the game.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Brian Waters
at this point in his career, is more than JUST a football player for the Chiefs organization…
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
No player on a 2-14 team is more than just a football player.
When a team wins 6 games in 2 years nobody should get special treatment.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I'm beginning
To like the Rev Slappy!!! He thinks like I do!!! Johnson Tony G and Brian Waters just need to SHUT THE HELL UP!!!
Not only is he just a football player
he’s 1 of 52 that needs to get the NE mindset that he needs to play every down as if it were his last.
That’s the mindset that we need to get used to by the org.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
If I were Waters I would be pumped up about Pioli/Haley
The team is finally moving in a winning direction. Waters seems scared he will lose his pull with management.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Congratulations
you all are completely wrong ; ^ )
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Apparently Shuffle like the Herm years.
Maybe he wants some more losing seasons so he can upgrade his season tickets.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I don't care
how you guys chose to slice it. I just refuse to believe Brian Waters is “just another guy on the team”. He’s not Boomer Grigsby, he’s not Craphonso Thorpe, he’s not Devard Darling, he’s not Will Svitek. He’s a rather large piece of this team if you ask me that would be hard to replace. Just because a big part of the heart & soul of our team shows up to see his new bosses, has an unpleasureable experience, and requests to be traded does not negate a decades worth of service. Perhaps for you guys, but not for this Chiefs fan
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
So
Because he is Brian Waters the cornerstone of the offensive line that gives him the right to show up unannounced and demand time of the GM and HC and their suppose to drop everything their doing to talk to him.
HELLO!!! Free Agency was hours from starting, he was working on a major trade and had just gotten back from the combines. You don’t think Waters should have taken these things into consideration before he shows up announced wanting to know what they were going to do with the team!!!!!
How STUPID can Waters be!!!!
I've never contended
that what Waters did was right. I’m just saying all the backlash is a little much. I’m being hypocritical though because after TG made a trade request I was ready to let him go at the right price.
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
No hes not like those guys, they are all gone
Willie Roaf was hard to replace, but we have his replacement in Branden Albert. Do you remember Jim Tyrer? John Alt? Two of the best Tackles the Chiefs ever had, but they are gone now and have been replaced. It’s a business and these things happen. (replacing guys) I can appreciate what you are trying to say about how good of a Guard and a team player Waters has been and I don’t think anyone on here has questioned him for his service. It’s his current attitude and the way he went about what he did that is in question.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
But that's precisely the attitude that keeps Chiefs losers.
You win games by playing as a team. One goal, one system, one mind set, one guy in charge.
Pioli works with Haley to provide the pieces to a winning puzzle.
Haley sets the plan of action and calls the shots to his players and his coaches.
Everyone gets on board. You either buy in to the system or you get the hell out.
It doesn’t matter if you are the RB, the QB, the 10 year veteran, or the rookie punter. Either you join the team mindset and work together tweord a common goal under the directiomn of the HC or you are a disruptive person working against the team. There is no in between. The most talented playing on the team is no more than 1 of the 53 links in the chain. The chain is not stronger than it’s weakest link.
I love BW. I respect him for the time he has put in to the Chiefs, and his passion for the game. But the past is the past. We had 6 years of “feel good” crying , hugging, touchy-feely “players coaches.” Guess what? That crap didn’t work. Now it’s time to try something different. The team members can either buy into the team concept and drink the cool-aid or they can pack their shit and get the hell out.
Losing Waters would weaken the O-Line, but keeping a player that refuses to buy into the system weakens the team. BW is no more important to the team than Brodie Croyle, Barry Richardson, or Dustin Colquitt. It’s 1 for all and all for 1; and that’s the fact. Drink the Todd Haley Cool-Aid. Join the TEAM, and play to win.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid
until I know what’s in it. And just as I was skeptical about Herm, I’m skeptical about Haley. I’ll reserve my judgement until after a season has been played then I’ll jump into the circle jerk
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 4, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not completely
into the Haley thing either and thats not the point we’re making or you were trying to make. The point is Waters that he was more important than the leaders. I too eagerly await to see what kind of year Haley brings us and until that is complete I’m not a Haley fan, but give them a chance to do what they need to do and don’t show up expecting answers during the busiest time of the year for building a successful team. Without a successfull FA, and draft this team will be shit and thats what these two men are trying to do build a team.
Mostly agree
…and don’t show up expecting answers during the busiest time of the year for building a successful team
If we’re going to compare the Chiefs to how NE was run (and we can considering Pioli’s past performance), they never will be given answers outside what the teams expect of the specific player in order for him to retain his job.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
The only worry I have about Haley is he is a first time head coach.
But the Superbowl this year featured two first time head coaches.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
You, as a fan, have that right.
BW, as a paid player of the team does not.
If he doesn’t support the team than he’s working agaisnt it. There is not in between.
Is he a lost cause? No way. He can eaisly make an attitude adjustment. It’s as simple as looking back at the past and realizing that the old way didn’t work. The team didn’t win. That program is dead. He has the oppertunity to jump on board of the new program and give it a fair chance to work. However, fighting it every step of the way makes him a detriment to the team. No matter what he’s done in the past.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Let me say it again, Randy Moss (T.O. Jr. before NE)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Waters can be wrong...
and we can still love and respect him. In this case, he was in the wrong. In the context of how you behave as a professional, he is just another player. His teammates are his peers…they are equals. His outstanding performance is reflected in his paycheck. It does not give him the right to show up and demand input.
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
I assume Pioli and Haley don't see a lot of leadership from the veteran players on the team.
Thus they brought in Vrabel.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
They certainly didn't...
see showing up they way Waters did as what they wanted from their leaders. Everyone is making a huge deal out of what was a minor behavior adjustment,
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think it's as much about leadership
as it is about having a guy from the old regime (Vrabel), basically telling the guys “this is how it is”, “you don’t know if you’re on the team, week to week, so you better just shut-up and play like a Pro every down”.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
And if Waters learns to do that...
he’ll fit the new profile of team leader.
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed...and the rest better follow.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Yep..
or I say you and I hop the rail in week one and start cracking skulls.
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Great flick
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Don't mess with the bull, mister.
You’ll get the horns.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
So he washes uniforms, cuts the grass,
does typing in the front office, washes the windows, tears peoples tickets at the gate, cooks the hotdogs, parks cars, researches talent on both levels, vacuums, and paints the goal posts too?
Where does he find time for all this and the chance to meet with Haley and Pioli? Oh and his kids too?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
you're right
he could be good trade bait as well
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
I’m starting to think some people here think Brian Waters
shares the same stage with the Pope.
Let me post a comment I did on this a few days ago since I don’t feel like retyping it’s here
Here’s a snippit:
Considering the experience some of us (older) fans have had the past 20 years I think we need to change our way of thinking.
Specifically what is the common denominator the Schottenehimer, Vermeil, Edwards, and to a certain degree Cunningham era’s had? Their door was always open for the players.
Let me be specific. Most fans remember Marty on the sidelines with DT, arm around shoulder telling him to "forget about it, move on". Treating him like a son. Folks remember Vermiel’s "episodes" when speaking about his players. Edwards’ sign of "welcome to training camp" and video of dancing players in jock straps. Gun’s gruff style although having been a part of the previous coaches had the same style behind closed doors.
These aforementioned coaches always had a style of "team family" and "open door policy", especially for the veterans.
Fast-forward to 2009. Let’s look at Haley’s past sideline tactics….T.O. (well we know how that went). NFC playoff games on the sidelines (Boldin and Warner) outbreaks.
Where did Haley and Pioli come from? -they all were/are from the cloth of Bill Parcell’s and Bill Belichick. Two men who wear their feelings on their hoodies (Bill) and especially to the press (Parcell’s). There’s no love there. It’s business.
My point: The attitude of these men and the way we have to view the organization in it’s state is the following: "We own you based on your contract". "We decide the acquisitions". "We decide on who plays and who sits". "We decide if we cut you (can’t get a trade), or trade you (to get something for OURSELVES)". "You decided on accepting a contract and you’re bound by it" "Shut-up and do your job….make hits and plays or one of the aforementioned is going to happen"
-YOU ARE HERE ON AN AS TO NEED KNOW BASIS
The line in the sand is drawn. If Pioli/Haley were honest about the Waters situation there is only one thing I’m willing to bet that surprises them: It was Water’s that they used as an example to the current squad. They probably expected LJ or to some degree TG coming in "expecting" the family to have an open door to talk.
It’s business time…if you want a family or a shrink, go home or pay for one.
Agree with the approach or not, the game is changing. There won’t be tears (Vermeil), or shoulder hugs (Marty) or "Fun Moments" at training camp (Edwards).
Business 24/7
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
That's all true
But when the team doesn’t perform Haley will be out on his Butt too
GO NE way.
And I hope that we don’t have a Pioli 5 year plan. Because we saw that one already.
Exactly
Comes to town unannounced, Pioli and Haley just back from combines, Free agency on the verge of opening, probably working on the Cassel trade and in walks Waters wanting to know where the team is going. I’m sorry that arrogance!
Wait until OTA and I’m sure they will let you know what direction there going in, for the time being leave them alone and let them built a team.
Wasn't Waters being arrogant by demanding time from them?
The guy shows up unannounced and demands to have his ass kissed. Who’s being arrogant. Nobody is above the team. The thing about this whole incident is Whitlock is a self-absorbed attention whore that should be completely ignored.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Thanks ksjhwk.
Apparently Waters doesn’t get the concept of “irony.” He wants to be traded because Pioli and Haley were arrogant. It’s laughable. Haley built the model NFL franchise, Haley’s offense was good enough to win the Superbowl this year, No player is going to be above the team.
Haley and Pioli = 5 Superbowl appearances this decade, with 3 wins. Haley built the only 16-0 team ever.
Waters = 0 playoff wins.
The end.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Oops
Pioli built the model franchise, not Haley.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
KCman16....The Forum Has Spoken
Brian Waters was the player dumb enough to stick his head up and ask them what they were doing. They were both waiting for something like this to happen and they were determined to bite the head off of the first person to question there motives.
There is nothing to be nervous about KCman16 there is a new Sheriff in town and they just let the whole team know it.
I like it, and I welcome it!!
GO CHIEFS!!!!
See the players should have got together and selected a guy like
Grigsby, if he was still here, and sent him in there as the lame duck.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Didn't Nick Lowry lead a player revolt that led to Frank Ganz being hired as head coach???
Yeah, letting the players call the shots is the right way to go…..
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
They were both waiting for something like this to happen and they were determined to bite the head off of the first person to question there motives.
That’s EXACTLY what they were thinking…and probably got together and laughed their arses off wondering if they wren’t hard enough.
I guarantee…not one other player is going to ask the org.’s business beyond what they can do to keep a job.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I disagree
I’m betting LJ didn’t get the memo and will still try to run the show. Everyone else has their head and tail fighting for the space between their legs.
by KCSatchmo on Mar 4, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Like Randy Moss did in NE?
No, sorry…he did that in Minn. and Oakland. Funny, how a new org. changes a player that wants to keep playing. OTOH, if he doesn’t want to play, than his fate will be the same as Taylor’s in Miami when Parcell’s became in charge. No different.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I've said this before, but the Cassel trade made Waters look like the village idiot.
On Friday we had to read that horrible, badly reported and full of innuendo over fact Whitlock article. Then on Saturday morning the news of the Trade came down. It made Pioli look like a genius and Waters look like a brat. Whitlock looked like Whitlock — a fat, self-absorbed “writer” more interested in self promotion than being a competent writer.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Probably couldn't have said it any better
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Pretty much
The difference is that Water’s is now smart enough not to keep running his mouth. It looks like he learned his lesson and blocked Whitlock’s number from his phone.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Was that ENTIRE post 1 sentence?
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
Take it easy on the guy
We don’t want to scare ALL the newbies away. UC and Lanier would have the baord to themselves arguing over text messaging ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
we shore cant have that
just two retarts texting…we’d be the only nerds on here!
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
We need all the 411 we can get ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I think it's
time to have an asswhole in here to get this sorry excuse for a team on the ball. (sorry=])
Brian Waters is used to these pushover coaches allowing players to take charge where they don’t belong. As long as Haley wins games I don’t care that he doesn’t like humans!!
I have yet to here
a player come out and say he didn’t want to play for Haley after being coached by him. In fact most players like playing for him. Players have blow ups with coaches on the sideline all the time. It just so happened that this was during a playoff game on national TV. It looked like Boldin was doing all the yelling in that case. If players can’t handle their boss having expectations, then they need to play for the Bengals.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
Parcells had a ton of players that followed him around.
Jumbo Elliot, Pepper Johnson. Guys like that. Winning players want to play for winning coaches.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Is it really bad to want to be on the same page
Wow Waters wants to be on the same page as management his bad for trying to make a connection with his boss thats all im saying ya he is busy but depends on what parts of the reports are true I dont understand why you would questions a mans integrety and say 22 players off the street could play better maybe if it was LJ or someone else but its hard for me to believe that Waters would make this up out of thin air
kcman16: It's called punctuation.
Look into it.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Waters probably didn't make this up out of thin air.
Whitlock did. The entire story is one sided and not the entire story. Don’t believe everything you read. Ask McDaniels what happens when the front office lets information out and then fights the battle in the press.
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