Is the Spread Offense Killing the 4-3? pt.1

by Dono on Mar 24, 2009 7:40 PM CDT Comment 12 comments

Today, as I ignored my History lecture and did my daily browsing of the mock draft websites, I came to notice something peculiar.

I looked at the Chiefs' team needs and noticed that our need for a Right End seems to be shared by many "analysts." (even though most likely we're switching to Pendergast's Hybrid) But what I also saw was the lack of "legitimate" RE prospects and a number of undersized college REs "Who must make the transition to OLB." And I began to contemplate why this seems to be a problem, especially this year. I came up with the following conundrum:

Is the Spread Offense utilized by most college teams, killing the 4-3's Right End? And could it lead to the temporary extinction of the 4-3?

We all know that the Spread Offense is aptly named for it's stretching of the field. Moreover, the Offensive Line is stretched horizontally due primarily to the agility and nimbleness of today's offensive lineman, thus forcing the Defensive Coordinators to adjust and play smaller, quicker athletes.

Take a look at the Top 10 RE's in this draft along with their height and weight:

Brian Orakpo 6'3" 263 lbs.
Everette Brown 6'2" 256 lbs.
Aaron Maybin 6'4" 253 lbs.
Michael Johnson 6'7" 266 lbs.
Robert Ayers 6'3" 272 lbs.
Connor Barwin 6'4" 256 lbs.
Larry English 6'2" 255 lbs.
Paul Kruger 6'4" 263 lbs.
Lawrence Sidbury 6'4" 251 lbs.
Cody Brown 6'2" 244 lbs.
Average H&W 6'3" 257 lbs.

Now Look at the 2008 AP NFL All-Pro Team RE's:

Jared Allen 6'6" 270 lbs. 54 Tackles 14.5 Sacks
Julius Peppers 6'7" 283 lbs. 51 Tackles 14.5 Sacks
John Abraham* 6'4" 258 lbs. 38 Tackles 16.5 Sacks
Mario Williams** 6'6" 283 lbs. 53 Tackles 12 Sacks
Average H&W 6'6" 274 lbs.

* John Abraham is the smallest mentioned and has the least amount of tackles but most amount of sacks, possibly denoting him as pass rush specialist.

**Mario Williams replaced Justin Tuck because Tuck is a Left End. They both had 12 sacks in the 2009 season.

The incoming rookies are on average 3" shorter and 17 lbs. lighter.

Could this year's RE draft prospects be smaller due to the influx of college teams adopting the Spread, forcing the Defense to employ smaller, faster players? And If so could this lead to a transition in professional football, mainly in the rise in popularity of the 3-4, or new schemes, over the 4-3?

Again, look at the height and weights of the incoming rookie Ends compared to the sizes of the 2008 AP NFL All-Pro OLB's (All are used in a 3-4):

DeMarcus Ware 6'4" 262 lbs.
James Harrison 6'0" 242 lbs.
Joey Porter 6'3" 250 lbs.
Terrell Suggs 6'3" 260 lbs.
Average H&W 6'3" 254 lbs.

The height and weight of the incoming rookies RE's is nearly identical to that of the height and weight of the All-Pro OLB's, which may signify the rise of talent best suited for the 3-4. Thus, encouraging/forcing teams to adopt the 3-4. Ultimately leading to the decline and death of the 4-3.

What do you guys think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Just to start, you give Pro Bowl DE's aquired over multiple years

To compare to one draft class is unfair that all or any would be Pro Bowlers.
Also you claim that the Spread is killing 4-3 DE’s due to needing more speed. But,
the 3-4 DE’s are larger not smaller, this should be opposite to support your case.
It would seem that and your draft class supports more 4-3 type DE’s than 3-4 coming out of college with spread O.

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 24, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

words out of my mouth

Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.

by 808NaNz808 on Mar 24, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I...

figured you guys would have understood that they need to make the transition to Rush OLB instead of 3-4 DE.
That’s I ignored placing guys like Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert into this because they’re 3-4 DE.

I’m fully aware of the 3-4 DE compared to the 4-3 DE.

by Dono on Mar 24, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I recall

It was the Giants 4-3 defense that gave the 18-1 New England Patriots such fits in the Super Bowl a couple years ago.

The fact there are no top DE prospects this year has absolutely nothing to do with there not being a demand and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that there are no 4-3 DEs of the desired size and talent coming out.

That’s why you are seeing Orakpo and Brown likely not going until 7th-12th rather than at the very top of the round like you saw last year with Chris Long who went 2nd overall to the Rams.

by ChiefDJ on Mar 24, 2009 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Lost my train of thought :)

The best way to beat the spread offense is to get pressure on the QB, not to have more guys in coverage.

by ChiefDJ on Mar 24, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That should equate to speed/skills

Not just Mass. I would think that trying to determine the best player at a position is not just measurements but intangibles plus size plus scheme.

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 24, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A 4-3 DE lining up with a 300+ lb tackle needs enough bulk to work with him

Speed is important in rushing, but he also has to be able to take on the blocker on running plays and not just get pushed 20 yards down the field. That’s why 4-3 DEs need more mass (and height so they can block passing lanes).

These little guys can get by playing OLB in the 3-4 because they can line up in any of a number of different places without necessarily being right up against a 300+ lb Tackle.

by ChiefDJ on Mar 24, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought a 3-4 DE was taller and heavier than a traditional 4-3 end

Thus fewer 3-4 Ends and more tweeners at 4-3 end.
or Do tweeners end up at OLB in 3-4?
I would think and End and OLB would have different skill sets?
And some perhaps most can’t play both

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 24, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought we were talking about Pass Rushers: 4-3 DE vs 3-4 OLB

3-4 DEs aren’t primarily pass rushers. In most 3-4 schemes their job is to clog up running lanes and tie up the Guard and Tackle to create rushing lanes for the blitzing LBs. The 3-4 DE is much closer to a 4-3 DT than he is a 4-3 DE.

by ChiefDJ on Mar 24, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

So if Tamba can tackle, he could occupy space and remain a 3-4 End.
Dorsey could be a 3-4 end but is not going to help much in passing game a Ht would allow QB to throw over him.
We need a Rush OLB or Rush 3-4 End in round 1.
Curry at ILB is not perfect fit as Rush OLB or rush DE.
No trade options #1 LT
trade option Jackson, Maybin, or Ayers at DE? and Dorsey stays at Tackle.

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 25, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs