With his pro day workout last week, Georgia's Matthew Stafford showed himself to be in a class by himself, and he also was in a class by himself among the top quarterbacks with regards to the Wonderlic. He scored 38. USC's Mark Sanchez scored 28 and Kansas State's Josh Freeman 27. All are acceptable scores for quarterbacks.
almost 3 years ago
Chris Thorman
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I'm Not A Fan Of Wonderlic
A lot of people look at Wonderlic as a litmus test for what makes a good QB, but it’s wrong as often as it’s right and I don’t think it’s any more reliable than reading tea leaves. Dan Marino had a 15 on the Wonderlic test…as did Jim Kelly and Randall Cunningham. I’d take any of them as a starting QB. Vince Evans (who had a long pro career at QB) had an 8. Marques Hagans had a 37. Hugh Millen had 41. Neither of them were any good as QBs. Jeff George (who had a long solid career as a QB) had a 10. David Klingler (one of the biggest busts in NFL history) had a 30.
Of all the pre-draft evaluations, I think Wonderlic is probably the most useless. When a QB has a low Wonderlic score and fails pundits love to blast the GMs who draft them and say “They should have seen it coming because his Wonderlic score was so low”. When QBs have low Wonderlic scores and succeed, the pundits all of a sudden forget the Wonderlic score. It’s the NFL’s version of the rainmaker scam.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
a la Vince Young
and his reported 6 on the Wonderlic. I haven’t heard much of it lately, but I’m sure many would draw a direct correlation to his lack of progression and his Wonderlic score – citing that he may not have the required intelligence to push his game to the level required of a true NFL franchise QB.
I think it has more to do with his maturity level… but some might say that his Wonderlic is indicative of his maturity level (or lack thereof).
I do agree with you UC – it is mostly useless and one can rarely determine a QB’s long term potential value based on his Wonderlic.
by Ochophosphate on Mar 22, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I Doubt Young's Low Wonderlic Score Had Anything To Do With His Problems
Vince Evans scored an 8 and had a long NFL career. I think you’re right and that Young’s maturity is more the issue with his struggles. That and Tennessee has a crap receiving corps.
Wonderlic’s not just mostly useless…it is completely useless. Any test that is wrong as often as Wonderlic isn’t measuring anything that can be trusted to be applicable. It’s just something for people to use later to rationalize their picks (“I know the guy didn’t have a good arm and couldn’t make a read…but his Wonderlic score was so high”) or for others to use to condemn those picks (“Of course he was a bust…look at his Wonderlic score”). Wonderlic is important when it supports our pre-existing beliefs, and forgotten when it contradicts them.
I believe success in the NFL for QBs simply has more to do with the player’s work ethic, tools, and the system he finds himself in when he gets to the pros (and how well it fits his abilities), and you’re really only going to figure that out from watching the game tapes, checking his stats, evaluating a player’s tools, and getting fairly lucky. More an art than a science.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
It's simply another piece of the puzzle
Just like a QB with a strong arm doesn’t necessarily make a better QB than a QB with a below average arm. Or a QB that has a good throwing session during the Combine or his Pro Day doesn’t always mean he is better than a QB that has a bad one.
It’s simply more data and offers an insight into the players mental capacities. But it doesn’t make or break him as being a succesful NFL QB or not.
If I remember correctly
Marques Hagans had a near perfect completion percentage this season ; ^ )
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 22, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I do find it interesting though
That everyone always talked about how bright Matt Ryan was and say that Stafford isn’t as “cerebral”, yet Matt Ryan scored a 32 and Stafford a 38. It means nothing about what happens on the field, but it goes to show that peoples preconceptions about Stafford are probably mistaken.
I Suspect Regional And Cultural Bias In There
It’s just a play on the old stereotype that people from the South are stupid and incapable of higher thought. I suspect it’s because of the accent…people in the South talk a little slower because of the drawl so it’s often assumed that they are slower mentally (which isn’t the case). Kind of like how I’ve known a lot of people who think immigrants are stupid because they can’t speak English well, whereas they may be quite well-spoken and intelligent in their own language. People often grade others down for failing to conform to their own culture and are generally dismissive of any achievements or abilities from the other person’s culture.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
One Of The Yankees' Managers
Miller Huggins or Joe McCarthy (I forget which…pretty sure it’s McCarthy) used to dislike having baseball players from the South on his team because he thought they were ignorant hotheads and couldn’t be coached. The individual didn’t matter…just the region they grew up in.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
Another nail in Andre Smith's coffin
Offensive tackles: None of the tackles were too far off the acceptable mark. Andre Smith of Alabama scored 17, which is borderline. Faring much better was Arizona’s Eben Britton with 31. Others: Eugene Monroe of Virginia had 24, Jason Smith of Baylor 23 and Michael Oher of Mississippi 19.
Again, the wonderlic on its own means nothing, but when you combine the average Wonderlic with getting kicked off his college team, being out of shape for the combine, disappearing without telling anyone and all the other stuff, Andre Smith has cost himself millions.
Wonderlic With Smith Doesn't Bother Me
The biggest concern with him was showing up to the combine out of shape. The reason he got suspended at Alabama was because of improper contact with an agent his senior year, which I think ranks pretty far down there in the pantheon of sins by players. Alabama had to suspend him, though, to protect themselves but I don’t think it necessarily means he’s a bad pick if he’s selected top 10, or a bad person. He’s just got a little growing up to do (as do a lot of 21-23 year old adults).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
Correction
Junior year…but he was planning to go pro anyway, so he was essentially a senior.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
NFL teams won't care about contacting an agent
But combined with the other things he’s done, you have a pattern of poor decision making. If he’s doing bonehead things like that now, what is he going to do when he starts getting paid big money? That is something that is just as important for a team to consider as how well he can block.
You're Right
But I also try not to judge too harshly based just on poor decision-making (as opposed to outright criminal activity). The point is that he was a dominant player in college, that Alabama’s line suffered greatly without him in it and that he could help a team out at tackle. I’d say that he’d be a terrible gamble for a team to take in the top five picks, but not necessarily in the top ten.
Then again, I am the guy who thinks Marshawn Lynch shouldn’t be suspended for his gun possession charge (mainly because the Peoples’ State Of Kalifornia has such ridiculous and arbitrary gun laws and because I believe the cops conducted an illegal search on him). :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
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