Chiefs Likely To Utilize 3-4/4-3 Hybrid Defense
by Joel Thorman on Mar 20, 2009 2:11 PM CDT
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via www.kcchiefs.com
Back on February 18th, we heard via Adam Schefter that the Kansas City Chiefs were likely to employ the increasingly popular 3-4 defense.
The reasons were obvious:
- Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick ran the 3-4 in New England
- Todd Haley came from Arizona where the Cardinals ran a 3-4/4-3 hybrid defense with new Chiefs defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast
- The 3-4 makes more sense when you lack quality linebackers (vs. defensive linemen)
Pro Football Weekly is saying that while the 3-4 defense is still likely coming, it may not be in full force in 2009. Instead, the Chiefs are likely to employ a similar 3-4/4-3 hybrid defense Pendergast utilized in Arizona last season.
The main impediment to a full switch is the Chiefs current personnel.
Not only is K.C. lacking defensive ends with 3-4 experience, but the team also doesn’t know if DT Glenn Dorsey can be an effective nose tackle. In addition, the Chiefs are thin at the linebacker position and might not have four solid starters by the time the season begins. So while the installation of the 3-4 looks to be in the offing in Kansas City, it probably won’t take full effect this season.
I don't think this is a surprise to most of us who expected the Chiefs to run some sort of hybrid. A lot of the conversation around here in regards to the switch to the 3-4 centered around the personnel, or lack thereof.
A lot of folks argued that the Chiefs can't switch in just one offseason. The type of defensive linemen and linebackers that defense calls for couldn't be brought to town in just one season. As PFW says, the Chiefs current personnel is "unsuited to run that scheme."
So if the Chiefs have to run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 to get by until Pioli snags his guys, that's fine by me.
Pendergast struggled for much of the 2008 season employing this defense in Arizona. But if last year's playoffs are any indication, Pendergast can effectively run this defense.
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Im really scared of this 3-4 hybrid scheme
I have to see it in action.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
I am looking forward to it...
We could run a 0-7 or a 0-0 and not be much worse than we have been around here. Seriously, I think it allows flexibilty and makes it more difficult for offenses to prepare. The reality is however, that it does not really matter what we play, what we need is better players.
Well
I’d say that if this is the case, then B.J. Raji’s chances of getting drafted by the Chiefs just went up signficantly. They’ll want someone to fill that Darnell Dockett role.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
I'm really banking on Pioli picking up a vet at NT
last year that’s what Parcells did, and it seems Pioli is trying to mirror Parcells’ offseason actions in 2008. You can’t put too much stock in a defense where the most important position is manned by a rookie. You have to develop that rookie behind an at least decent veteran. A lot of it is how intricate the 3-4 is, you have to have smart players to utilize it, if you have a Vet that understands the system you have a better starter than someone who’s more talented but screws everything up.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Dockett is 6'4 285....
I don’t think that matches Raji…
It is almost exactly Turk McBride however…Turk is 2 inches shorter and 7 lbs lighter…
I was going.........
to say what about turk, he’s probably the best thing DT we have as far as the 3-4 D-fense. What do you guys think? The 4-3 is what i hope we stay with this year. If we just had a good pass rusher,our front 4 would be fine. If we would draft a MLB our LB’s would be fine. Going with the 3-4 pretty much make us have to draft a OLB and a MLB !! Which i would be fine with if we could get CURRY and MAUALUGA , our d-fense would just need a pass rushing DE with those 3 additions i think our “D” is set ! OK now i have a QUESTION what was the d- fense we ran with D. thomas and N.smith,and could we run it like that now??
I think it was a hybrid with Thomas as Predator
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh and Cunningham was D coach at times with IT
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The D we ran Thomas and Smith
The first few years we ran a 3-4, then when we picked up Joe Phillips and paired him with Saleamua (sp?) we moved to a 4-3. I do think it was more often the 4-3 under that we are talking about now with Thomas playing DE out of the LBs.
I feel like a lonely wolf
No one will try my 9-1-1 defense? :(
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
we could have played against the Broncos
a few years back when all they did was run crappy Tatum Bell into the dirt
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Then Again we employ that scheme every game
it’s popularly known as “Field Goal Block”
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Is that what
D the other team runs aginst us when LJ runs or is that run into your O-lines ass D if so 9-1-1 works on LJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by A true chiefs fan on Mar 20, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
In this case judging availability of personnel on past experience
is not necessary the way to go. We all agree that some of the Chiefs players have been used in recent past out of position. And because something is “typical” and expected it is not necessary true. In addition some of the underachievement on the part of the players was due to distrust in the scheme and coaching (or laziness). Either way if a player is 1-2 inches shorter than standard that does not necessary spell into failure. Training camp will make things clear.
Cassel for Cutler
Do you think the Chiefs are 1 of the 10 teams looking into Cutler. Isnt Cassel for Cutler a good trade for both sides?
Hell no
I don’t want a Bronco starting for us unless we picked him up off free agency to shove the Broncos’ own ineptitude in their faces for releasing a player thinking he wasn’t worth a contract (like what they did to us with Casey Wiegmann last year).
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
Only if
the Broncos threw in multiple draft picks. Cutler has shown he can be a productive QB in the league, whereas Cassel has done it for one season on one of the best teams in football, so Cutler is a safer bet. But if it were up to me, I wouldn’t even consider the trade unless it included some first day draft picks.
Switching to the 3-4 means...
that the Dorsey pick last year was a waste. He won’t be successful in the 3-4. That makes me sad.
But...
last year he lined up in a similar fashion to the where he would line up in the 3-4 and he got pushed back. Embarrassingly pushed back. He’s too short.
I was disappointed with his season
but it seems like there isn’t a consensus that he did poorly last year. There are people who know football better than me who say he did ok. But I was being sarcastic (stemming from disappointment). Some of us thought he would have a great year and he didn’t.
Perhaps if we think he’ll be bad, he’ll be good?… I tend to look at my pre-season Chiefs through rose-colored glasses.
I think people make too much of height...
He is 2 inches shorter than the better NT’s in the league at a position where you WANT to get lower for more leverage….
Good point
How tall is Casey Hampton? 6’? Dorsey just needs to work on his strength. Hopefully he can show us some of the explosiveness that we saw at LSU next season. His stats (like 46 tackles and 1 sack?) are not horrible for a 1st year D tackle. But if we truly transition to the 3-4, I am not sure if he fits in? He could, just not sure if he will.
Height is overrated
Some other players that were considered “too short” in recent years:
Dwight Freeney
Drew Brees
DeMeco Ryans
Maurice Jones-Drew
Lofa Tatupu
Different positions, but still. It shows that determining a player’s ability is not as simple as just taking out a measuring tape.
Yes, it isn't always about the measurables
The guys you mentioned are great players because they are smart, tough, have heart, etc. I would take any of them in a second.
Kudos
To you guys for always finding bits of Chiefs “news” to keep us entertained in this dry season. The folks at the Star should take a hint or donate half heir salaries.
Already have donated 5% and 150 coworkers laid off on Monday 3/16
What more do you want
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Shefter
may not know the difference between the 3-4 D and the Cardinal style 4-3 Under. My guess is we’ll go with the 4-3 under leaving Dorsey in the gap. If this is the case, I’d take Arakpo with the 3rd pick to be the Predator.
But what do I know, I live in Seattle. My brain’s a little moldy.
I think he meant
That we would be going to the 3-4 eventually…not necessarily rushing into it next season…but we are certainly on the way to it…
Right players in the right scheem in the right place.....
…..not saying that I know, BUT it appears to me that Haley did a fantastic job of putting the right players in the right place on offense (he did not have any specific input on D) and game planning around his talent. And, with the Chief’s, Edwards allowed Chan Gailey to pretty much do the same, and both were successful. I think we will see the same effect this year with the D and it will be a world of difference. Just wait and see.
Shaun Rogers
Trade LJ for Shaun Rogers. He would definately fill the NT position. Pick up Curry and draft and DE in the third round. This year’s draft is filled with them. Our defense would be looking pretty solid. Jason Taylor is still available. He could be a short term answer.
don't think Taylor is wanting to come to KC
he’s got one yearleft and judging what happened last year he’s not going to make a humanitarian move
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
One thing is for sure
Hybrids are better for the environment………
—————————happy redart friday——————————————-
Why does Dorsey have to be nose?
Seems like I remember the draft preview guides last year said he had great speed up the field off the snap, and if I remember correctly, some tagged him as being effective as an end.
For those who say Dorsey is to small to play NT
Well all I have to say is Warren Sapp he was 6’ 2" and 300 lbs, Dorsey is 6’ 1" 297 lbs. Does Dorsey need to work on his strength yes, but if you are looking at what he did last year…well have any of you ever thought that maybe he was doing exactly what the coaches told him to do, which is not too much of a stretch thinling that the coaches sucked. We have seen underproduction from everyone on our defense, except when Jared Allen was here. And JA was know for getting in trouble with the coaches for doind it the way he wanted to do it instead of doing it their way. Maybe the coaches way is what was wrong with the Chiefs D, and maybe with a good coach Dorsey can be a dominant lineman, even at NT, like he was in college.
Well....
Warren Sapp did not play the 0-Technique Nose Tackle position that is being referred to here.
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