Which side of the line are YOU on?

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 8:16 PM CST

I'm not a Quaterback guy... I played CB in high school and I have a side job interview coming up to be an assistant defensive coach at that same high school I attended.... So yes, I take a little more interest in the defensive side of football... But the newly developed "Quarterback Controversy" in Kansas City is getting more and more interesting.

A lot of people here lately have been pretty hard on Scott Pioli's way of letting out information. They feel that things in the organization are a bit too "secretive"... But you cannot tell me that the Saturday morning "Matt Cassel Surprise" wasnt pretty awesome. If you tell me it wasn't, I'd call you a liar.

Now... with Todd Haley stating that there will be competition for the starting QB role this coming season, it kinda leaves people a bit puzzled and with questions.

1. Why would we trade for Matt Cassel, pay over 14 million for 1 year, and still wonder if he'll be our Franchise QB?

Now, I understand that some of you think, "Matt Cassel played in a formidable New England offense. With a solid O-Line and receiving threats such as Randy Moss and Wes Welker."

Now is this really the case? Will Matt Cassel have a harder time playing in our Offense? Well, some may agree that Dwayne Bowe could very well be as productive as Randy Moss. If you think about it (or look it up), in the '08 season, Randy Moss had 69 receptions for 1,008 yards (14.6 avg.) and 11 Touchdowns. Dwayne Bowe on the other hand had 86 receptions for 1,022 yards (11.9 avg.) and 7 Touchdowns. Granted the TD ratio is a bit off (4), but with a better passing game of course, this can easily change.

Question #2. Have we REALLY given Tyler Thigpen a shot to become our Franchise QB?

At the helm of our football team, Thigpen threw for 2,608 yards and 18 TD's (ahead of Ben Rothlisberger, Kerry Collins, and Matt Ryan to name a few), which isn't bad considering that Thigpen really only started 11 games (without a running game mind you).

Todd Haley claims that Tyler Thigpen has a lot of moxie. Which is good for a QB to have. Attitude can really make a player in this league step up. And because of that "moxie" and play on Sundays, Thigpen gained the respect and trust from his teamates, namely Pro Bowl Tight End and Future Hall of Famer, Tony Gonzalez... But how much water does that hold?

The 3rd and Final Question: Head to Head, who REALLY has the best chance to be the face of this franchise?

When the smoke clears and everything is still, it boils down to WINS. And Matt Cassel came up with 11... Tyler Thigpen? Well... He STARTED 11 games. WIns? .... 1.

Sure Cassel had the opportunity to play in more games than Tyler, but you cannot deny talent. And If Cassel won 11 games for US last season, we'd have won the AFC West (easily) and a home game in the playoffs (against the Colts). Matt Ryan and the Falcons won games, and yes they made it to the playoffs, but Matt Ryan had an undeniable ground game, which was a huge factor to his success. And quite frankly, the numbers don't lie. Matt Cassel's '08 campaign consisted of 3,693 yards (8th in the league- right behind Donavan McNabb and Peyton Manning), 21 TD's 230 yards avg. per game.

As for Tyler "Bones"- "Thiggy" - "Pigpen"- Thigpen, he'll either be our #2 or a #1 somewhere else. Sure Todd Haley SAYS that we're gonna give him a shot, but it aint Haley who calls the shots.... We hired Scott Pioli for a reason. If there is a team in the NFL who wants to make Thigpen their guy, Pioli will pull the trigger for the right price. Especially if that means more draft picks... Hey it's the ~~Patriot~~ Chief Way.

So without throwing out possiblities of what could, should, or would happen... Let's get down to it and draw the line in the dirt....

Poll

Which side of the line are YOU on?

Tyler Thigpen

23 votes

Matt Cassel

82 votes

105 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Tweet Comment 49 comments | 1 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

I was under the impression that

we were negotiating a contract with Cassel. I dont want to sound dumb, but are we really payin him the franchise tag price?

by KCJayhawk on Mar 2, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions

Yeah... We traded for the rights to that Franchise Tag

We owe him that money, the question now is if we’re gonna sign him to a long term deal.

I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
'09, a new era begins in Kansas City.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions

No, I believe the way it works

is that the franchised player can be resigned to a new deal, which then negates the franchise tag’s value.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions

No, I beg to differ

I’m pretty sure that we need to pay him 14.5 million this year, bro.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions

I think

We can restructure within the extension. Example: We extend him to 5 years (adding 4 to what he currently has). Make the whole thing worth 50mil and call it 10mil a year.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Mar 2, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions

but

yeah his 14 for this year is guaranteed.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Mar 2, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions

Thank You...

That’s what I’m saying… We can let him play this year and owe him 14.5… Or like the lady said, we could restructure his contract and forget about the Franchise Tag and pay him an even amount a year.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:11 PM CST up reply actions

I think that's what I was trying to say.

Although in terms that weren’t even close to being as clear as you’ve stated. If we restructure with his extension, we still have to pay the $14.6 million, just not all in one year.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions

...

…..

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, still not making sense.

I give up…my brain is only functioning in short spurts tonight apparently.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

no you don't

you can negotiate a contract for any value the player will sign. when you negotiate a long term deal, it pretty much negates the franchise tag

Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman

by kcguy on Mar 2, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions

That's what I was thinking,

but I can’t remember where I got that idea from.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions

They are talking up Thigpen

just to help increase his trade value. I like Thiggy and would love to see him as our #2 but, he is not Matt Cassel. If we can get some help for our o-line out of him, I am all about trading him.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Mar 2, 2009 8:28 PM CST reply actions

First,

it’s highly unlikely that Cassel will be paid the $14.6 million that’s owed him as a franchised player. He’ll be signed to a new contract, with a substantially smaller cap hit.

Secondly, I didn’t know that the stats for Bowe and Moss were as close as they were. Thanks for showing that!

Finally, I am personally in the “Let’s have them compete” camp, but that probably won’t happen. We didn’t trade for Cassel and the contract he’ll get for him to be a backup.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 8:28 PM CST reply actions

we talk to Thiggy to keep him happy and also possible for trade

But if woulc get a suitable backup, it would be nice to get another pick back to go towards OL

by Ozarkfan on Mar 2, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions

Quinn Gray

is a good #2 qb.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Mar 2, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions

+1

Just thinking that.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions

Seth.... Where are you getting this idea

that we don’t owe him that 14.5?

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions

I was under the impression

that signing the franchised player to a new contract essentially negated the salary the the tag dictates. I’m not sure where I got this impression, and I can’t find anything that answers that question one way or the other, so I’ll go with the majority opinion here. I’m sure I’d heard that somewhere, but I can’t find crap about it on the interwebs.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions

Cassel has the option.

He can refuse to sign a new contract and play this year for 14.5 and become a free agent next year. At which point we have the option to franchise him again for 14.5 +10%. He can however renegotiate his current contract just like any other player. Surely you have heard of players “restructuring” their contracts. For example Marvin harrison had one year left on his cotract this year and the team asked him to restructure. He refused so they cut him.

Cassel will very likely choose to restructure and get paid for less than 14.5 this year because the 14.5 has no signing bonus. If he signs say a 6 year deal he’ll get around 30ish million in signing bonus and guaranteed money. If he chooses to play for the 14.5 he is guaranteed nothing but his salary for this year.

by KCSatchmo on Mar 2, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks!

That’s pretty much what I thought, though I seem to have not articulated it very well.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions

thigpen should be traded

he cant take a snap under center or run a pro style offense which we will be running, whats the point of having a backup that we would have to change the game plan completely for when he comes in

by rich04 on Mar 2, 2009 8:37 PM CST reply actions

When

did Thigpen have a [chance] under center? Brady wouldn’t have a chance behind last seasons O-line.

by GHOST OF DT on Mar 2, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions

Pro Style!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like the spread that NE has ran for the past couple of years. Take a look at those highlight clips again. Shotgun, Shotgun, Shotgun.

Although the Arrowspread is a little more extreme, the NFL is definetly opening up the playbook and Thigpen is a valuable asset.

Cuatro!

It is a new Era at Arrowhead. I do not yet know if it is one of greatness or one of ineptitude. I am excited to see which way it goes, and will support my team until the end, bitter or sweet!

by KC4Life on Mar 2, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions

Sure the highlight shows a lot of Shotgun

but if you watched the games, he CAN play under Center.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions

I know he can!

I was simply stating that “Pro” Offense is becoming much more loosely defined. We have 2 offensive masterminds and 2 able QB’s. I think Thigpen deserves to be given the chance to compete and even if he doesn’t win the job hes a great backup.

Also, he could be a great weapon is some wildcat looks. I think Thigpen will learn to take snaps under center this offseason and give Cassel a run for the money!

It is a new Era at Arrowhead. I do not yet know if it is one of greatness or one of ineptitude. I am excited to see which way it goes, and will support my team until the end, bitter or sweet!

by KC4Life on Mar 2, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah...

Well, that’s what I’m saying… Sure, Thigpen will compete… But again, he’s either gonna be a #2 or a #1 on another team possibly.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions

I find the people who think they know as much as Pioli to be hilarious.

Pioli = 3 Superbowls, 3-time NFL Executive of the Year. He is widely regarded as the best player-personnel guy in the business, he was the most sought-after GM candidate for the last 3 years. Until proven wrong, everybody should give this guy the benefit of the doubt. His first move personnel move as Chiefs GM was a home run.

There are people out there (some on AP, but a LOT of them on the KC Star message boards) who must have thought the 2-14 was the time of their lives as Chiefs fans and don’t want to see any progress made. Cassel is a HUGE upgrade at the QB position. Denver was willing to get rid of their Pro Bowl QB to get Cassel.

The Thigpen cult is bizarre.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Mar 2, 2009 8:38 PM CST reply actions

No way!

I have never seen the community here descend into the depths that the Star commenters do. (Except for the very, very few and far between crazies, like the JON MCGRAW SACKING GROCERIES!!!!!! guy.) I don’t think there’s any comparison to be made here. Also, there’s a world of difference in liking a player who had a serviceable year and thinking Pioli made a mistake in bringing in Cassel. After last year, Cassel looks to be a very good QB; so did Derek Anderson after the 2007 season. I do not think Cassel is the next Anderson, but there is always that chance. However, I really like the trade Pioli pulled off.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions

Theres a chance for everything...

Tom Brady could walk back into the starting lineup and never be the same QB again… But would you bet the farm on that?

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions

No.

Just like I wouldn’t bet the farm on Cassel being the next Anderson. The existence of one possibility and the probability of it happening are two different things.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions

You must be FHSU educated!:-)

by paratrooper on Mar 2, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions

However did you know?

That’s the Affordable Success I was promised!

Seriously, we need to find a way to get together to watch a game or something. Ever since we figured out we’re both in Hays, I’ve just been kind of amazed that there’s someone else out here that comments on a Chiefs blog. I haven’t met anyone else that does so.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions

Watch out! Quantum Physics

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 2, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions

Seriously.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions

NICE

No clue to what drug you are referring to…

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 2, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions

No drugs here...

FHSU is the university that paratrooper and I attend. Fort Hays State University is Hays, KS.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions

Typo

Fort Hays State University in Hays, KS.

by Seth_C on Mar 2, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions

Because he is the Underdog

Which is why people want to give him a chance… although Cassel is an underdog too, and I’m happy with Cassel.

I would like to see the Chiefs trade Thigpen for 2 reasons,

1- We could get an additional draft pick which is important
2- It would allow Thigpen the opportunity to start which he has earned

by GracieKal on Mar 2, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions

+1

Cassel, Gray, Pioli’s choice in R6 or R7 for our next Brady.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Mar 2, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions

release brokie

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Mar 2, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions

Yes!

by Major Tom on Mar 2, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions

+1

No KC QB contraversy.
We DID that and it SUCKED.
+ we made the wrong choice….

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 2, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions

Why not

give Bones a chance to start here? He has a report with the team and he’s not a bad QB. Granted getting Cassel was a great move but if they compete against each other in camp it will make them somewhat better QBs. I’m pulling for Bones only cuz I think Cassel is the favorite but I really don’t care who starts cuz I think both guys are good players.

by scharny on Mar 2, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions

REC THIS UP! I WANNA SEE EVERYONES VOTE

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 9:40 PM CST reply actions

vote...trade Thigpen or keep? What rder to vote? 4 or higher?

Who knows, if niners get desperate enough, maybe we get their 2nd rder..LOL

by Ozarkfan on Mar 2, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions

Dude...

Theres a poll up there… Cassel or Thigpen straight up.

by R2J_24 on Mar 2, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions

But do we keep Thig or trade...Tampa desperate for QB

Surprised they aren’t shooting for Warner….Niners and Tampa need a veteran QB and then hope for good draft to bring up the futureQ B’s for them..since their GM and Head Coach are both Kansas boys, wonder if good ol boy network will find Freeman drifting their way. I like him so it would be a good pick. But they need a solid veteran QB in FA or trade. I wouldn’t look at Thigpen if I was in their spot, I would be doing what they probably are and is looking for good veteran or solid future like Cutler.

by Ozarkfan on Mar 2, 2009 10:18 PM CST reply actions