Arizona fans view of our DC
by kc571 on Mar 13, 2009 8:30 PM CDT
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It looks like the Cardinal fans were not thrilled with Pendergast. He had some good spurts but wasn't overwhelmingly successful. While he was great in the preseason, his overall statistics weren't that good.
My guess is that we'll have a middle of the road defense. Hopefully the change of coaching staffs, will have an impact on our ability to tackle. I'm still having nightmares of Tiki Barber running through our team (twice).
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I'm actually very positive about him.
Here’s why:
the 43 under defense that he ran in Arizona is perfect for the Chiefs as they transition to the 34.
Glenn Dorsey is not stout enough to play NT in a true 34.
Glenn Dorsey is not tall enough, doens’t have the wingspan, and doesn’t have the lateral movement to play a standard 34 DE.
With the 43 Under the NT is not lined up in a 0 technique. Rather the NT is lined up in a 1 technique on the strong side. The DE on teh strong side lines up in a 5 technique, and the weak side DE lines up in the 3 or a 4 technique.
Glenn Dorsey’s best change to make it in a 34 is to play a weak side 4 technique. It puts him out on the tackle where he can either rush in to the guard and take the double team while a LB contains the edge OR lets him push outside the tackle and contain the edge without needing great lateral movement skills while an ILB covers the 1 and 2 gaps against the run.
That set up allows Dorsey to have the best possible chance for success in the 34 D while using the least number of players possible to “cover for” his lack of optimum size for the position.
In addition, with one OLB playing up and concentrating on pass rushing most the time the other 3 LB’s play out of a more classic 43 LB roles. Rather then adding a Jack backer they get to play in the more familiar Mike, Sam, and WIll roles and leave the pass rushing to the “predator”.
We then get to keep the zone scheme in the backfield that our players were drafted for, and occationally change it up by dropping the predator into coverage and bringing either a CB or S blitz.
It’s really the best possible alignment for the current Chiefs personnel to play out of while they transition and gather true 34 defensive players.
Penergast being named DC is great news for the defense. The 43 under plays to our strengths and hides our weaknesses. The question that remains is: With Tank playing the Nose, and Dorsey on the weak side, who plays strong side DE?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 13, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Would he be a proto 3-4 or 4-3 end
I imagine he would be a 3-4 type end 300 lb 6-4 to 6-6 to stuff run.
Pannel Egboe type maybe at 6-6 275 a number of others 5-6 round all need seem training table
25-40 lbs to get to 300 but have proper HT. Hyppolite, Kyle Moore
Am I on right track?
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 13, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely
You want to see a tall guy with a wide wing span as a 34 DE.
You also want a guy with good size, 265+ and they have to have lateral movement skills. You cant contain the edge if you can’t slide down the line east and west against against the blockers.
Ideally, you’d want a tall guy (6’3"+) with nice size (between 265 and 300lbs) that has good lateral skills and a strong bull rush. Finding everything all in one package is hard to do, but that’s what we should be looking for to play DE in a 34.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 14, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Dorsey is a prototypical 43 DT, exactly what we drafted him for.
Its just that now we are transitioning to a 34.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 14, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Dorsey could prolly handle the strong side 5 tech as well, but I'm not sure he could get around the TE to pinch the pocket
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
So we would want a Proto NT and have Dorsey play the under Tackle
Or weak side DE position. You would still ideally want HT and Wingspan but 290 lb is okay 6’1" little short. Does the aforementioned weak side DE have to occupy more than 1 blocker and/with edge responsibilities? Or does Rush/OLB give him some latitude?
Or does that mess up whole scheme?
I think Tank May be able to pull of NT, although a Shuan Rodgers wouldn't hurt.
The biggest need is for DE’s. We really don’t have anyone that is prototypical 34 DE size and mobility.
but the 34 under is not the same as the standard 34.
The D linemen are shifted 1 technique position to the outside (NT in the 1, DE in the 5) and the weak DE can line up in a couple different places.
If you run a typical 34 then the DE has to contain the edge AND provide pass rush. They are responcible for the C gaps on either side while the ILB has to spy and cover the B gaps. The NT in a standard 34 lines up in a 0 technique and has a 2 gap responcibility (meaning he has to cover the A gaps on BOTH the strong and the weakside). He must read the play and move the correct direction (weak or strong) while eating up 2 blockers (the C and the G) ). So the weak side DE is usually where you get pressure from D line.
Conversely in Pendergasts 34 Under the NT plays in a 1 technique on the Strong side. He is still responcible for 2 blockers (the OC and strong side OG), but only 1 gap (the A gap he lines up in). The strong side DE in a 5 technique is responcible for the OT and the TE and plays the C gap. The ILB (or the MLB would be a better description since there are really only 3 LB and a perma blitzer) covers the B gap to the strong side. The OLB/Sam Backer can pass rush on the strong side by shooting the gap or going around the edge, or can play coverage. On the weak side the DE can line up in a 3 tech or a 4 tech. Making him responcible for the OT or the OT and OG (he has to read the play) and he covers the B or C gap. The OLB/Will Backer is responcible for either the A gap or the A and B gap against the run depending on where the weak DE lines up. Finally the “predator” (the outside lineback on the weakside) doesn’t line up in a classic 34 position. He acutally cheats up a couple yards tword the line of scrimmage. His job is almost always as a pure blitzer from the outside edge. He uses the weakside DE to allow him free reign to rush, by comming off the DE’s outside shoulder around the OT. He can help cover the C gap on the weak side, but mainly just blitzes the QB. On a pass play you will usually see the RB/FB stepping up to block him, or at least trying to (which is nice because it allows the strong side OLB/Sam Backer to come free and clear to the QB if you call a blitz from both sides).
In the 34 under the D-Line shifts to the strong side by 1 gap, while the LB’s shift to the weak side by one gap. So you have an offset front 7.
I hope I don’t lose you in all the tech/gap stuff.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 14, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions
So....
The 34 under, from a LB perspective, is a lot line the 43 defense.
You have 3 “real” LB’s playing gap responcibility and and coverage, and 1 “predator” LB ( usually the outside LB on the weak side) that concentrates on rushing the passer the vast majority of the time.
Having said that; Sometimes (just to keep the offense guessing) the predator will drop back into coverage to cover the shallow seam while the weak side safety comes in a blitz OR the predator slides outside to cover a WR while the weakside CB comes in a blitz and the weakside Safety comes up in zone coverage to assist the predator.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 14, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Curry would be better used as an ILB
or in the 34 under the WILB/Will backer. He’s great agaisnt the run and has the hip transition and pass coverage skills.
He could certainly play the predator. He has the athletic ability, but rushing the passer was not his strong suit in college.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Because of his coverage ability
Lineing up Curry as the Will Backer/WILB on 1st and 2nd, but shifting him to the predator on 3rd down would allow us to confuse the hell out of an offense. Since we know Curry can handle the pass coverage it would mean the Blitz could be comming form Curry, the CB, or the Safety. Would be nice to flip flop him in 3rd down situations =)
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
On a completely different subject, just for clarification
From a D-Linemans perspective:
0 technique = straight up on the O center.
1 technique = outside shoulder of the O center (between the center and the guard)
2 technique = straight up on the OG
3 technique = outside shoulder of the OG (between the guard and tackle)
4 technique = straight up on the OT
5 technique strong side = outside shoulder of the OT (between the tackle and the TE)
5 technique weakside = outside shoulder of the OT (there is no TE on the weak side so this guy is rushing)
From a LB’s perspective:
A gap = the gap between the OC and the OG
B gap = the gap between the OG and OT
C gap strong side = the gap between the OT and TE
C gap weakside = outside the OT (there is no TE on the weakside)
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Pendergast's 34 under is exactly what we need while we transition. I really hope we use it.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
make that 43 under
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Slow down teacher
No give it to me.
I got my legal pad out and am drawing up what your saying
Love it.
I can study while your asleep
I hope I'm not commin goff as some "know it all" asshole here.
I just happen to be an X’s and O’s guy where Def is concerned. I played it for so long in so many different sets that it’s what I live nad breathe.
I do not claim to know everything about it, and I can be wrong just like anyone else.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
No, I don't think anything like that
I work on computer networks and Phone systems.
It helps me to diagram to see what is being discussed.
Your post on techniques and gaps is helping a lot
and putting each player/type is giving reference
I see what you are saying. Of course if your players are better than mine,
and mine execute the plan better then we might have a draw.
But if mine are better with no idea/plan than yours would win.
sleep well
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 14, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
At some point I started typing "34 under" instead of "43 under". It's late. Oops
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'ts superfulous
To discuss until after the draft and we know what we have to deal with. You can really go nuts then. It is fun though. Go for it..
PS
I like the attitude the cardinals defense had. They really get after it. I’d like to see it in K.C.
I for one would be
tickled pink with a defense that is ranked between 10th and 20th this year!
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
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