Is This Why The Chiefs Haven't Been Active In Free Agency?
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 12:31 PM CDT
117 comments
It hasn't really bothered me a lot that the Chiefs haven't been active in Free Agency. I supported building through the draft when Herm Edwards was the coach and now that Pioli is continuing that trend, I'm still on board.
But I have to say its not what I expected from Pioli and Hailey when you hear them talking about "22 guys on the street could win 2 games" or "well, we have a good punter". With rhetoric like that, you would think they saw the need to bring in more talent to make a bigger impact.
The free agents we HAVE brought in are nearly all Patriots rejects, which had me wondering if the Chiefs were not falling victim to an "arrangement" between Pioli and Belichick. This article from the Boston Globe confirmed that thought:
Evans's decision came down to the Patriots and the Saints, although Matt Cassel was making a push for Evans to join the former New England quarterback, Vrabel, and general manager Scott Pioli in Kansas City.
"This is one of the main reasons I respect Scott," said Evans. "He said, 'I know Bill is trying to re-sign you, and I respect Bill so much, and he's done so much for me, so I'm not going to be in play.'
Now, I have no problem with the buddy system in the NFL (just part of life), no doubt that is the main reason we got the Cassel / Vrabel deal done so quickly. However, I have to wonder if from now on the Chiefs are going to be sitting around waiting for the Patriots to take their pick before we come in for the leftovers.
Belichick has a reputation for dysfunctional relationships with his former coaches. Is Pioli going too far in trying to keep close ties with Belichick and the Krafts at the expense of his primary duty of turning the Chiefs into a winner? If he's bowing out of going after free agents that would help OUR team because his former boss wants the same guy, I see that as a problem.
Of course, in this case, is just a fullback we're talking about, but how do we know that Pioli isn't dragging his feet going after other free agents on the market because he's waiting to see if the Patriots are going to go after them first? What happens in the future if the Chiefs are one or two picks ahead of the Patriots in the draft and Pioli knows there is a guy Belichick wants?
Is he going to pass over that guy even if that pick is who the Chiefs should take just so he can maintain his ties to Belichick? Isn't it Pioli's job as the General Manager of the CHIEFS to make the CHIEFS into a winner by bringing in the best talent and not to stand aside while his friend and former boss gets first dibs?
We haven't seen enough of Pioli yet to know if this is a trend or a one year arrangment between the teams, but it is something I will be keeping a close eye on from here out.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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eh
we didn’t need Evans we have Cox, Gailey likes him and he did well last season.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Mar 12, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not just about Evans
How do we know we aren’t going to be playing second fiddle to the Patriots for the next 10 years? If he’s not going after guys just because the Patriots want them, that means he’s not bringing in the very best talent he can find, which is kind of his job.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree!
It’s not about Evans, it’s about the fact that he said “I respect Bill so much, and he’s done so much for me, so I’m not going to be in play.” Like you said is this going to happen every time there is someone out there that the Chiefs and Patriots are interested in? With all the secrecy now, how do we know that this has not happened already?
by Nelly on Mar 12, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just saying
could be that Evans was speculating that was the only reason we didnt go after him seeing as we’ve signed so many Pats players and he’s the best Pat on the market right now. When fact is, we just didn’t want him.. I hope your wrong waiting for the Pats to sign free agents would be detremental to our long and short term success
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Mar 12, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Maybe this season but not for long. Why? Pioli’s not going to tarnish his own legacy to make Bill happy for the next 10 seasons. I just don’t see it.
by GHOST OF DT on Mar 12, 2009 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No Way
This is paranoia talking. (All due respect ChiefDJ) If Pioli wanted to take a back seat to the Pats then he could have just stayed in NE. He isn’t BB’s bitch. He is a driven and ambitious man and if he wasn’t I doubt he would have reached where he was today. I am sure Scott knows his legacy will be defined by what he does AFTER he leaves the BB umbrella.
It is ok to be respectful but not doing your job to the best of your ability is a big problem. I think that if Scott REALLY wanted this guy and he thought it was an absolute MUST for KC he would have gone after him. As it stands, he probably didn’t and just toll Evans, “don’t worry, I respect Bill and I am not getting involved in this one.” That sure sounds a lot nicer than, “I don’t think you can help my new team so I am not going to bother trying to sign you,” doesn’t it?
Let’s be real here. This is the NFL. It is about winning. Scott knows that. Winning equals happy fans which equals money. And EVERYONE is happy with wins and money. No one knows that better than Scott, he has had a lot of both.
Think about it. If you were Scott, would you leave a team that is a fixture and a powerhouse to take over a team that is a bottom feeder and needs tons of work if you didn’t think you could turn it into a winner? No. you would just stay with the winner and keep on winning as long as you can.
BB doesn’t need a spy on the Chiefs. KC is no threat to him right now.
your money to replace players you don’t want with more players you don’t want?
Paddy
by Patrick Allen on Mar 12, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
All I’m saying is that there is no question this is going on THIS YEAR, probably a quid pro quo for the Cassel trade. But we should be paying attention to see how far this goes.
I want the Chiefs to win. I could give a crap about the Patriots.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on the Chiefs winning
and giving a crap about the Patriots.
Paddy
by Patrick Allen on Mar 12, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the patriots
hold a special place of hatred in my heart.
by The Steel City on Mar 12, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they will help each other
out it may benifit us we both could be dominant but at the end of the day making moves would be piolis job he isnt jerry jones if we do not see progress we can fire him.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Mar 12, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
That last sentence should read:
Why spend all your money to replace plaersyou don’t want with players you don’t want?
Paddy
by Patrick Allen on Mar 12, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I made this point...
When it came to the Cassel trade. There may have been a gentlemans agreement to deal Cassel to the Chiefs for a 2nd, even though BB could have gotten more, and in return, there were a few guys that BB and SP agreed that they wouldn’t get into a bidding war against each other with.
I wouldn’t worry, though, Pioli has too much of a competitive streak to have agreed to anything serious or long-term.
If you see a quote like this next offseason from a key cog that we should have gone after, then it’d be something to be concerned with, but as it stands now, if this is true, I don’t think theres much to worry about.
Good find though, ChiefDJ! Rec’d
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To elaborate...
Lets say that Pioli had worked hard at putting together a list of guys the Pats should go after this offseason (very plausable). He turns this list over to BB at the end of the season and later he gets the Chiefs job.
Why wouldn’t they come to some sort of a gentlemans agreement? It’s not conspiracy, its rather likely.
Remember guys, we got Cassel and Vrabel for a 2nd rounder, and its clear the Pats could have had the #12 overall pick for Cassel. We aren’t getting the short end of the stick just yet. Evans?? You can have him, I’ll take Cassel and Vrabel, thank you.
Again, lets worry about this when we lose out on a player we were targeting and really needed to NE, and a quote like this comes out.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was my understanding
that even if the Pats had waited for the three-way trade to happen, they would have gotten somebodies 2nd round pick, not the #12 pick. Can anybody elaborate? Seems like they got the highest pick they could have and unloaded a lot of cap-eating salary.
by Chiefs4Life on Mar 12, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PK
I believe if Denver offered Belichick its first-round pick last Thursday instead of, apparently, on Saturday, that Cassel would be a Bronco today and current Denver QB Jay Cutler a Buc or Lion.
Now…this article also points out some of the same points Your_Moms points out…but with all the information on the table, I think the most plauable scenario, and fits with King’s account, is that BB made the deal with Pioli without testing the market.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone and his mother knew Cassel was available...even MY mother knew Cassel would be traded
and any team that was interested I’m sure had Belichicks phone number. To say that the deal was made without testing the market first smacks of rash incompetence, and I’m not buying it.
What maybe caught other teams (Broncos, Bucs) flat-footed was the speed with which the Patriots acted to trade him. New England needed money to sign Fred Taylor, and the other free agents who would not have waited around until New England created a bidding war for Cassel or maybe obtained a higher draft pick for him. The logistics of pulling off a three-way deal in so short a time was just too nebulous to count on, when cap space to wheel and deal was of prime importance.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Mar 12, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if BB wanted Cassel in KC with Pioli
And not if it was agreed upon before Pioli left NE.
Which is my opinion.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which he "kinda" said himself.
When he claimed he wanted Matt to go to a team he could grow with and call his own. Which was a nice thing to do for two men he respected.
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain
by Chiefho on Mar 12, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the two teams #1 picks might be traded if NE decides that the FA
period didn’t address a particular need. Pioli would still have a 1st lower down where he would want and pick up some more middle round picks and also address the imbalance of Cassel/Vrabel trade.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
I think the new found secrecy of the organization is making people a little paranoid. Patrick Allen’s got it right.
by Chief Crazy on Mar 12, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to worry about
Considering that Pioli has had to build the football operations almost from scratch over the past couple months, it isn’t surprising that the team hasn’t been more active in Free Agency. I’d imagine that the priorities for this off season are 1. The Coaching Staff 2. Evaluation of current talent 3. The Draft. This year is probably going to end up being an evaluation year for the most part…see what the current roster can do under Pioli’s staff, then focus next off-season on getting the wrong guys out & the right ones in.
I have a feeling that some significant trades will happen on draft day.
by jmcgoblue on Mar 12, 2009 1:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
he has to completely revamp our entire evaluation process, both the draft and free agency. One thign that should be clear is the Chiefs had a terrible system for evaluating talent. Pioli probably had to scrap the entire system and start over. Not exactly an easy thing to do.
by Chiefs4Life on Mar 12, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to know what tony g and brian waters are thinking right now
i want to know if they still feel they want a trade if so draft day will be crazy.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Mar 12, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
patience
Seriously guys, Pioli has been on board for 2 months now. If anything it was out of professional respect AND we dont have a dire need at FB.
Im sure Pioli wouldnt want to tarnish his rep by helping the Pats, thats just silly.
"I will fight you!"
"What is your weapon?"
"My bare hands!"
"That is stupid. I will use a sword and I will cut off your bare hands."
by CT Chief Fan on Mar 12, 2009 1:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Non issue, Halt the conspiracy
I don’t think it was a gentlemen’s agreement on Cassel either, it was a deal that got done because only 2 parties were involved that already knew they could trust eachother to sign on the dotted line.
3 team deals don’t happen in the NFL for a reason, too complex. The NFL likes everything short and simple, that’s why players in the NFL actually get fined and banned unlike the overly convoluted MLB, where the players rule the roost.
The Pats didn’t have confidence that the deal would get done, the Chiefs deal was a sure thing. Particularly in the NFL, you take the bird in hand over the 2 in the bush every time, this successful, short and simple philosophy is played out in the draft every year by successful organizations. Successful organizations like the Patriots.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 1:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That reasoning doesn't fly
What reason would the Patriots have for not waiting to see if a deal would work out?
Were the Chiefs going to sign a DIFFERENT franchise QB in the next 24 hours if the Patriots didn’t immediately close the deal while they waited to see if they could get a better deal from somewhere else? Don’t think so. It’s not as though if the Patriots didn’t trade Cassel right then and there that they were going to be stuck holding the bag.
There was absolutely no reason for them to be in a big rush to get the deal done and its the antithesis of how the Patriots organization handles things. Pioli and the Patriots likely had a deal worked out to trade for Cassel before he even left town.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Already having a deal in mind does not a conspiracy make DJ
and according to the Broncos, they didn’t contact the Patriots about the deal, they treceived a phone call on it and basically said no. Then Cutler heard they took a phone call and got his panties in a bunch which is leading to the Donkey Debacle, of which I think we are all huge fans.
Sounds like Tampa was the major pusher in this, and they couldn’t get enough steam behind it. So now Pioli can wait for an Oh So Common 3 team trade, or he can take a deal that’s on the table for a high draft pick in round 2 and clear cap space for a backup player and a player on the downside of his career.
And from the avalanche causing whines coming out of Cutler now, no wonder Belichik and Pioli didn’t get within ten yards of a deal involving that guy.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who has ever done outside sales or negotiation
can tell you why you don’t wait around for deals to get done.
Cause that’s what trades are, sales guys hawking what they got.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha...
I do both outside sales and negotiation…and I’d be fired if I made a deal that was (according to the trade value chart) half as valuable as I could have recieved.
This is a great example, actually…if I put my product on the market, called my friend, and made a deal with him instead of waiting a couple days to see if I could get a better offer. Then an offer came in the same day I was finalizing my deal that was worth twice as much…from another customer who I hadn’t bothered to schedule a demo with…yeah, I’d have a lot to answer for.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even more to answer for if
you always have a money callback deal of the century that is just almost about to happen and never does, instead of perfectly good value deal thats on the table right now.
You should know better than anyone. That’s why car guys do everything they can to keep you from walking off the lot. A done deal now is always way more valuable than a maybe retirement hall of fame score tomorrow. Haven’t you seen in your line of work enough entry level sales guys get burnt on call backs, come on man, you have to admit that.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But there’s negotiation, and then there’s the leg work before the negotiation. This should have been handled during the feeling out process.
IF BB really was trying to maximize his return, he should have had a better grasp on the market when he made his deal with Pioli, he could have done this by calling the other teams that had QB issues and asking thier interests. This clearly wasn’t done because the offers flooded in once news broke.
IMO, this is because they had a deal in place when Pioli left.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only offer that I'm familiar with
was the 3 team deal, that wasn’t solid from jump street, what were the other deals?
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read this link
That I referred to in one of the other posts?
Gotta run, but thats probably the best write up on the whole ordeal.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Additionally
having a public fire sale doesn’t seem very “hoody” to me. The Pats and Pioli like everything out of the limelight.
They managed to quietly sign Randy Moss for a 4th round pick for God’s sake.
A 3 team deal, no way is the lid staying on, lack of control freaks out the decision makers in the Pats and now Chiefs org.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to the link
The #12 was offered on Saturday. He wouldn’t have had to worry about the rest of the 3 team deal, he ships Cassel, and gets the #12, then Denver works out the Cutler trade with whomever they want, Detroit, TB, whoever.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, really, I'm out
I’ll catch up later.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome article but I don't think it supports ur position as strongly
Copied and pasted from the article:
So Belichick knew he probably wasn’t going to get a sweetheart deal. And last week, before the market opened, I’m told he never got offered a first-round pick by any team in trade. I’m also told he asked Pioli for the 34th pick in the draft — nothing more — and when Pioli told him he’d do it, they had a deal.
"Bill had to be nervous,‘’ said one club official briefed on the deal. "There was never any guarantee that any of those three-way trades was going to work, and they cropped up so late anyway. He could have been left with nothing if he lost the Chiefs.’’
So often deals are done according to the decision makers perception of reality. Granted hindsight 20/20, but as the article points out, and everyone should read it, thanks kcsno56, the Pats were under the gun and nothing else was guaranteed.
They had already shopped him and no one was offering 1st round at that time or 2nd round +. So at that time the 34th pick was the best deal. If he KNEW the #12 pick was coming he would have pulled the trigger on it.
If anything the Chiefs get credit for being more aggressive and less convoluted than the competition. As I stated originally, short and simple wins the day most of the time.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, wait, wait
Yes the Chiefs get credit for being aggressive, if you choose to believe that.
Where are you seeing that he shopped Cassel around? Thats my main point. There is no report that he was ever shopped to anyone other than KC.
If he had shopped him to Denver, TB or Detroit, KC’s offer wouldn’t have been the best on the table. This much we know. I knew you’d focus on that quote, and thats perfectly fair, but in the end, if BB was trying to maximize his return, he’d have made calls to these other parties.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
remove if you choose to believe that.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting the franchise tag on him
was a giant red flag to the league, “Hey guys, you aren’t getting Cassel for nothing.” The guy was UFA, now the Pats are stuck with him and with no cap space, they need to unload him.
If you have something you need to get rid of then you’re in the weak negotiating position. The strong play was to sit back and wait for the flood of QB hungry teams to come calling. Unfortunately, the phone didn’t ring or if it did it wasn’t for the picks they were hoping for. All of a sudden the Chiefs come calling with #34, a pick that they could use to get top level talent and not pay top level price.
They can pay for all of their 2nd round picks (4 of them) for the same money that the #12 would cost them and not see a major drop in talent.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would have pulled the trigger on #12 if it was offered
earlier but it wasn’t. They had been sitting on Cassel for a long time, the Chiefs deal was the best on the table so he took it, they were tired of waiting around for a better deal to materialize.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides calling Denver
makes no sense, they already have Cutler who is proven more than Cassel, they didn’t know Cutler was on the block.
Calling Tampa or Detroit makes more sense, but he would get low balled by them, he was under more pressure to get rid of Cassel than anyone else was to pick him up.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article says BB asked for the #34 pick
Not that we offered it…again, semantics, mostly, but what you’re saying is, BB called SP, asked for the #34 pick without talking to anyone else, made the deal, and that this makes logical sense.
Sorry, not for me. IF he was looking to maximize his return, he wouldn’t have talked to only one team and made a deal.
How can you assume TB and Detroit would have lowballed him? NE had taken the stance publically that they were willing to go into the season with Cassel as the backup at the Franchise #…this probably had other teams trying to wait out NE to see them make the 1st move to gain negotiating leverage.
Sure they were doing that to attempt to prop up his value, but, when you have an item that is up for bid, as you probably know, one bidder is no bidder. This is less of a sale, more an auction, an auction with only one bidder, and that bidder was Pioli…and Pioli took the opening bid. Good for us, sure…but it all leads me back to my original assumption that this was worked out before SP left NE.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He knows they would get low balled
because thats what they did to the Raiders for Moss, 4th round pick for proven stud WR. It’s standard operating procedure to give up less and get more, unless you’re Dan Snyder or Matt Millen.
I don’t buy it was a done deal, the good old boy club relationship obviously helped, but I still think the rest of the league was just caught with their pants down. Their is no way the Patriots would have not taken Detroits other 1st rounder, I guarantee you they didn’t call with that offer.
Pioli calls or vice versa however you want it. Belichik knows that when Pioli says, yeah we’ll give #34 but that’s it, that deal was as far as Pioli would go, they used to negotiate together so no used trying to smoke screen.
“Hey SP I gotta unload Cassel and some capspace, what you got, I’m tired of getting dicked around by these other clowns?”
“Well BB, I’ll give you #34, I gotta lot of holes to fill here, need the rest of my picks.”
“Sold.”
I’ve had plenty of deals get done just cause the other guy was tired of the hassle of trying to get something better worked out with somebody else, and I was ready to go pen in hand; “just sign here and I’ll take care of the rest.”
I gotta believe you’ve had that happen before.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure have...
But I think we’ve taken the sales comparisons about as far as we can here. BB isn’t making moves b/c he doesn’t want to get dicked around. HE does the dicking around! J/K…somewhat.
I agree Detroit didn’t offer thier #1, and maybe they probably wouldn’t have. I do think, that by all accounts, if BB called up Detroit and TB and said, I’m moving Cassel in the next 24 hours, you need to get your best offer in to me before then, he’d have got a better offer than #34. Hell, even Detroit’s 2nd rounder beats our offer.
I have too much respect for BB to think that he was incompetant enough (or too lazy) to not inquire what other teams were offering before making this move. This is why I think they had it worked out ahead of time. I also think (although I’ll get stoned here for saying this) that Vrabel was thrown in by Belichek b/c he was going to be a cap casualty.
Sure its possible that they didn’t have it worked out ahead of time, and if thats the case, SP is more lucky than anything else. BB calls him up, says I’ve got to unload Cassel and asked for the #34, SP probably said, sure thing, hung up and poured himself a glass of scotch.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone knew
the Pats had to move either Cassel or Tom Brady out of town. The two of them were eating too much cap space unless they signed Cassel to a long-term deal for a lot less money then he’d have made as the tagged player (not going to happen). If the Pats believed TB would be game-ready for opening day they would move Cassel. The best point you’ve made is the Pats probably could have asked Detroit for their second rounder. But the Lions are incompetent and even if he asked (and he probably did) they would have sat on their thumbs for 4 days trying to figure out how to spell their names. Pioli was the best bet he had.
by Chiefs4Life on Mar 12, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been tons of reports on this deal
I haven’t seen one that said that NE called anyone other than KC.
Anyone finds a legit source saying this, I’ll back down. I don’t think it happened.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too am in outside sales
and I also know that who you know is just as important as what you are selling. I think the Cassel trade was a done deal before free agency began. It was a great deal for both teams and the bonus is that the deal was done among friends. No Brainer!
I do not think there is any conspiracy theory involved. NE wanted a second round pick, not a first round pick and we had a very high second rounder to offer up. Belichick got exactly what he wanted and so did we.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Mar 12, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it as a conspiracy either
But I don’t believe that BB chose a 2nd over a 1st. I think thats what he worked out with his friend.
And absolutely, half of sales if not more is the relationship with the customer…but we’re talking about a different animal here. We’re talking about an item that should have been put up for auction, and instead was offered to one seller at a discounted price.
Again, I don’t think its a conspiracy, b/c I don’t think its against the rules or underhanded in the least. The NFL approved the deal, and the case is closed.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how many of us are on this site...
Probably a decent #
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did choose a second over a first
because they did not want to pay the first round price tag. With good scouting, a high second pick is actually as effective as a first. The Patriots have very good scouting and will certainly find a good football player with our #34.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Mar 12, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2nd round picks are gold because of thier price tag
But go look up BB’s 2nd round picks…not great, especially when compared to his first rounders.
I agree that he values them greatly, probably more than most, but I don’t think he’d rather have the #34 than the #12.
IF he really felt this way, he could just not turn in his 1st round card and let people draft in front of him. Or he could deal his current 1st rounder for a 2nd this year and a 2nd next. He won’t b/c he doesn’t.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if it cost you $1,000,000 up front money for not making the deal today you wouldn't.
Vrabel had a $1,000,000 bonus due the day after the Chiefs/Pats trade for Cassel/Vrabel.
NE wanted to move Vrabel before the bonus came due, which is why Vrabel was in KC working out in previous days.
The Pats needed the cap space so they could get moving on FA’s they were interested in and they could not do that without clearing cap room. Moving Vrabel and Cassel was their big move to free cap space to allow them to sign FA’s as well as to pay this years draft picks.
It came down to the million dollar bonus that was due. The Pats were gonna do a deal before that bonus came due, and Pioli was the only guy with a done deal set in place that afternoon.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm good with that
But no one knew that more than BB. If he wanted to get rid of Vrabel on his Cassel deal, and was really concerned with maximizing his value, he’d have been calling around with teams that were QB needy before the bonus deadline.
Yes they needed cap room, that still doesn’t explain why he wasn’t negotiating with other teams.
What a game, FYI, Cuse and UCONN, hope you guys caught it.
Gotta go to sleep.
by kcsno56 on Mar 13, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read somewhere
that the paperwork was in the league office by the time the Patsies were contacted Saturday.
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain
by Chiefho on Mar 12, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vrabel was owen a $1M bonus the day after the Chiefs traded for Cassel/Vrabel
Notice that Vrabel came in to work out for the Chiefs well in advance of the deal being struck. That happened because the Chiefs had agreed to get the deal done BEFORE that $1M came due.
The deal had to be done on the day it was done so that the $1M bonus was shifted to the Chiefs, instead of the Patriots oweing that bonus. So, yes there actually was a reason to do the deal that day and not wait around to see if a better deal could be put together.
I know some will argue that a meesly 1 million dollars is next to nothing in NFL numbers, but it’s still a lot of money and the Pats didn’t wanna pay it.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 12, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Well…considering he knew that Pioli would make the deal for a 2nd, why wouldn’t he have shopped around to see if he could get a better offer?
Even if the Broncos deal fell through, he could have bypassed Denver and gone directly to TB and got thier 1st.
You are right, only two parties were involved when the trade was made, b/c BB didn’t try to get other offers. Its why when the deal 1st started getting buzz, you heard tons of reports about teams trying to get in on the deal after the fact. There are a lot of reasons one could speculate as to why he didn’t try to get other offers, but his relationship with Pioli can’t be looked at as a coincidence under any of them.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously not a coincidence
but there’s a reason good old boy deals get done. You know the other side isn’t going to go behind your back and try to hamstring you. Besides, no way was Tampa gonna give up a 1st pick for Cassel. Everyone forgets that was a major reason this deal got done, the market wasn’t that hot for him.
The guy was good, but not 1st round good, there is still the possibility of this guy being the second coming of Scott Mitchell. The NFL copycats, the majority of QB’s that went to the playoffs last year were drafted/developed by their team; Warner was a feel good story, but turned out to be lightning in a bottle that has since gotten out.
I lay myself down to sleep every night praying that won’t happen, but it is still possible.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a report
By Peter King that Denver offered the Pats the #12 pick for Cassel, but BB had already agreed to the trade w/ Pioli. It hadn’t gone through the league office, but they’d verbally agreed to it.
So essentially, before anyone else bid on Cassel, BB and SP agreed to the #34 pick. You can continue thinking that BB decided that day to take the #34 and not get other bids, I’ll be of the opinion that BB wanted Cassel to end up with Pioli.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I could see that
I think that comes down to once you agree, don’t back out, because that can hurt future deals etc. People take things personally, that’s why the Raiders are so screwed up, Al takes everything personally and gets on personal vendetta’s.
I don’t know the stats but how often have the Raiders been able to work out any beneficial deals with other teams in the past 20 years? Integrity means a lot in business.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
I don’t blame BB for not backing out of the deal once he had agreed to it with SP. That would certainly hurt thier relationship and the possibility for future deals. Integrity is vital…of course as I’ve said, I think the deal was probably made the days leading up to the hiring of Pioli here.
by kcsno56 on Mar 12, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the article in kcsno56's post
it really brings everything together. Perfect example of how being the first sales guy in the door with a quick and easy deal pays off.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two points I'd like to make:
1. Didn’t the “winning with 22 guys off the street” comment come from that suspect Whitlock/Waters column? If so there is a good chance Haley never made the comment or the comment was taken very much out of context.
2. The Chiefs are not going to be the Washington Redskins when it comes to free agency. Pioli is one hell of a lot smarter than Dan Snyder. This team is going to be built through the draft with free agency being used to fill holes.
Pioli’s been on the job a very short period of time. The first decision he made was that the Chiefs were poorly coached and that resulted in the firing of Herm and most of Herm’s staff. If the coaching staff has been upgraded then in theory the Chiefs’ players should perform better next year. I think it would be extremely difficult to be evaluating talent based on performance generated by bad coaching. A mediocre player under Herm may flourish in another system. It’s going to take Pioli a year to see what he really has.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The draft Is all we have
Free agents aren’t coming to KC. We only have the draft. We will fill some holes this year. We will have to sign enough un-drafted free agents to have enough players for training camp.
If we have a decent year, win a few more games and begin to find an identity. we can start to see some free agent signings next year. Our coaching staff has to prove itself by the way they present themselves this season.
We are just going to have to wait and see.
by choirboy on Mar 12, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our money spends just as well as anybody's
If the Chiefs had offered $100 million to Haynesworth or any other free agent they would be Chiefs right now. I don’t think it’s a matter of the 2 previous losing seasons at all. Many players in the NFL only care about getting paid and I’m pretty sure we aren’t trying to attract them anyway.
This organization is not going to be stupid in free agency the way other teams are. Pioli says he is not collecting players, he is building a team. This team is going to be built for winning over the long term and that is done through the draft. The solid NFL franchises are built through the draft. It may take Pioli/Haley a year to really figure out what they have. Were the Chiefs horrible because of a lack of talent or a lack of coaching and accountability? Or both?
I think the team will improve over 2008 (how could it not?) but we aren’t going to see the Chiefs spend a shitload of money on free agents in hopes to make the playoffs next year.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli's own words.
This is what Pioli said the day he was hired:
“The mission of this football team, and the direction is to build a football team. We built a team in New England, and we’re going to build a team here. My job is not to collect talent, it’s to build a team. Individuals make Pro Bowls, teams win championships. That’s our goal here. Win championships, win football games – to build this team with the right kind of people, with the right kind of players, to consistently compete for championships. . . This is going to be a very methodical process in building this football team, and we’re going to start from the ground up and build a foundation, move ahead, and touch every part of the football operation. The patience that I know Clark has told me he’s going to show it going to be rewarded.”
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's emphasize this:
“My job is not to collect talent, it’s to build a team. Individuals make Pro Bowls, teams win championships. That’s our goal here. Win championships.”
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily true
If the Chiefs had offered $100 million to Haynesworth or any other free agent they would be Chiefs right now.
There are plenty of players that, especially when you’re talking about a contract that huge (come on, thats Monopoly money) will be more than happy to give up a few million if it puts them on a competitive team rather than a team that has been 4-12 and 2-14 the last couple years.
Free Agents are not cans of soup on the grocery store shelf where you just go in and pick one up and its as good as another. These guys are human beings and some players will take less money to go play in a city they like (can’t tell me Miami doesn’t get a lot of guys just because of the city) or they will take less money to go play for a contender.
KC is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage in the free agent market because of its location, just the way it is. But you can’t say “our money spends as well as anybody’s” because in reality, its not the case.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC also has an advantage because it's very affordable to live there.
I am a KC native relocated to Los Angeles. There are a lot of things bigger cities have that are attractive. I love a lot of the amenities LA has to offer. But it costs 2-3 times more to live in LA as it does in KC. Decent one bedroom apartments here run in the $1500 – $1800 range. A $5 million a year salary in KC is a lot more money than it is in NY or Miami or SF because the cost of living is so much lower. Players with families may find KC attractive because it is in some ways a much more family friendly community.
I agree with you, there are a lot of players that will take pay cuts to play on good teams, and clearly that’s not us yet. Ultimately I think the Chiefs are going to attract those players. LT just took a pay cut in San Diego. But there are a lot of player who are whores and will go anywhere some money is dangled in front of them.
Carl Peterson being an asshole to negotiate with has done more to harm the Chiefs in free agency than anything.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can sexy up your organization though
Mark Cuban is awesome at that. He just asked players the things that they wanted the most. The first time he asked, all the players wanted were better towels in the locker room. Next day he had top of the line plush luxury towels, the players went nuts. They found out that if they asked for something and Cuban agreed it would help them win he would write the check.
Now Cuban is a complete nut job, but there is no denying his passion & commitment. The players recognize that, he has no problem signing draft picks or attracting top talent. He turned the Mavericks from a perennial joke into a playoff team overnight because of this.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning would sexy up the Chiefs.
The new stadium won’t hurt either.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 12, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gun Shy
This has to be leftovers from the Herm Regime. He made so many excuses and had no success with the team so now some fans and also some media reps can’t help but try to try to disect the new regime before they have seen any results or even seen one minute of the teams play for 2009. Herm didn’t do such a good job with the players but it sure seems he did on the fans.
by Jimgem on Mar 12, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
people are disecting
because we are bored.
There hasn’t been much information coming out of arrowhead. What else is there to talk about besides a Pioli conspiracy.
2012? lol
by The Steel City on Mar 12, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of 2012
if we dont win a play off game and we all die ill be really pissed off .
I always had this dream that we will be in the super bowl in 2012 10 seconds left in the game we are about to score 5 yard line ,last play toss up to the corner of the end zone to tony g and boooom we all die . SO we wont know if he caught it or what. That would be the most horrific ending to my life and with my luck it probably will happen.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Mar 12, 2009 2:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if your luck
and the chiefs luck combined…I wouldn’t doubt that scenario.
by The Steel City on Mar 12, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keeping an eye on what?
Runnnnnnnnnnnnnn, the sky is falling! There is no arrangement, there is no worries about Pioli playing second fiddle to ANYONE let alone his old coach! To take on his words that he respects bill, and because of such, he wont be in play means simply: WE WANT YA, YA KNOW WE WANT YA, WE UNDERSTAND BILL WANTS YA, so its up to you, and we stand in NO PLAY!
Sometimes its better to take a backseat approach to signing someone, IF YOU SHOW THE RESPECT towards another such as he did Bill, the PLAYER being courted, sees THIS and RESPECTS THIS, thus increasing the odds that we indeed may get such players services!
LOTS OF WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS do you not think?
I DO!
Kansan Chief
Ol' Kansan' Chief
by Kansan_Chief on Mar 12, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Indifference and respect
are very good negotiating techniques.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Mar 12, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well your theory is blown out of the water because he didn't sign with us
And didn’t see us as an option because Pioli told him he wouldn’t sign him because Bellichick wanted him.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 12, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
As I was reading thru the various comments, that was the first thing that I thought of… “the sky is falling”. I’m sure there is alot for me to learn about how this all works but at the end of the day don’t we have to trust the Pioli really knows what he is doing.
"The reason women don't play football is because eleven of them would never wear the same outfit in public."
~Phyllis Diller
by Cheiffanbymarriage on Mar 12, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not get crazy...
I agree with several of the other posters – Pioli’s comment was a nice way of saying we don’t need you… Pioli’s got too much to worry about right now and making nice with Belichick isn’t one of those items… The Chiefs have talent and I don’t think its time to start freaking out because the Chiefs haven’t been big buyers in free agency… Once the Pats got rolling, they plugged guys in and weren’t signing guys for the sake of signing them… Pioli will do the same thing with KC once the foundation is established… If he shied away from signing a quality wideout or linebacker because of the Pats, then yeah, there might be some cause for concern – but a fullback when the Chiefs have one that isn’t that bad anyway? Don’t sweat it…
by FredThreezy on Mar 12, 2009 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh brother!
This post is so stupid I had to spend the few minutes registering so I could respond. What Pioli is doing is typical, professional, and a sign of pure class. You never, ever pee into the pool you just stepped out of. The NFL is a small community, and if you do something like steal key players away from your former organization, you end up in a relationship like what Eric Mangina (typo intentional) and Bill Bellichick have. You guys got an absolute GIFT from the Patriots organization not only in the form of Scott Pioli but also in the Cassel/Vrabel deal, and you’re going to question what Pioli is doing for the Patriots? OMG, you are such losers!! This post shows you guys in Kansas City don’t know jack about football. Read this article and start your education.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108001/index.htm
Morons!!
by BC1 on Mar 12, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While we usually love new folks registering the site
I kinda wish you hadn’t.
Take a few minutes to look around and you’ll find no one cares to hear the personal insults.
What sucks is that you actually made some good comments before that.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 12, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BAD boy :(
next time you fly over I will send a Heatseeker right up your PoopStack.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hay bosses can i call him a retart?
Len Dawson:
"Lamar Hunt had a dream and, the thing is, we had dreams, too. Just imagine the number of people that he has touched because he said, 'I'm going after this dream."'
by smokin iowa chief on Mar 12, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be
ANNE RETART!
Vae Victis!
by Buck'O on Mar 12, 2009 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops sorry.....lol
Len Dawson:
"Lamar Hunt had a dream and, the thing is, we had dreams, too. Just imagine the number of people that he has touched because he said, 'I'm going after this dream."'
by smokin iowa chief on Mar 12, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont believe it
Why would the GM talk to a player he doesnt want to sign, when he wont talk to a player already on the roster that is a 1.probowler 2. been a team player for years, i think that it is a fake story posted to start trouble for our new front office
by ChiefsFaninFL on Mar 12, 2009 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Travis Daniels
Were you not aware that the Pats wanted to sign the CB we just added?
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/05/patriots-and-chiefs-interested-in-travis-daniels
The End
by SlipperyPete on Mar 12, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Neutral player
The difference being that Evans was one of “Belichick’s guys” since he was on NE last season.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 12, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough...
…but it kind of crushes the “Pioli will walk on eggshells when it comes to going after someone BB wants” thing.
I personally think this is much ado about nothing. I think we’ll see more FA signings later on. although with all this silence and most every coaching position pretty much filled, it makes me wonder what is actually going on in the front office on a day-to-day basis. USA hasn’t done “Wings” marathons in ages, so I can’t imagine what they’re up to over there…
by jbj8609 on Mar 12, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In which case...
…the issue has nothing to do with avoiding free agents just in case the Pats want them, which is the point the initial post tries to make, and more to do with avoiding New England’s own free agents who the Pats are attempting to re-sign. There’s a pretty large difference there.
And that’s only if you believe Pioli was serious and wasn’t just being polite to someone he wasn’t interested in bringing to KC.
by SlipperyPete on Mar 12, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Did Belichick Get a Rep About Beefs With Former Coaches?
This guy didn’t get that right. I won’t even bother to read the rest of his “theory”.
Belichick had an issue with Eric Mangini, one of his former assistants. That is all that I am aware of. My understanding is that he generally has a great relationship with most of his former associates as Belichick understands the value of a coaching network and the overall fraternity of coaching. He even is able to talk football with Parcells despite the fact that their personalities and coaching styles are leagues apart and the events that transpired when he took the NE job over the Jets. It should also be noted that, from the rumors at least, Mangini left NE on somewhat specious terms and took some property (a laptop) that was not his to take. He made the bed.
by EnochRoot on Mar 12, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The NE patriots could'nt afford a laptop
I’m sure every company that provides laptops has lost a few.
In my company a good guy, died.
His laptop was in his car.
We made no effort to retreive it when we learned the cicumstances.
Another guy lost his in airport.
Another guy had his busted by a soccer ball at a MLS game.
This a bullshit/madeup/fabricated story of why Mangini is on the outs.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever started it
Doesn’t really matter. Mangini brought on SpyGate which is all that matters re: their relationship at this point.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 12, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on...
The laptop isn’t really the point. It’s the way Mangini went about things. The guy was talking to Belichick’s staff and trying to take as many people as he could with him before he even got the job, on top of the Deion Branch tampering episode. It wasn’t exactly the greatest way to repay the man who gave him the opportunity (and I’m including monetary favors from when Mangini was just a ball-boy in Cleveland) to become a head coach.
As far as I know, EnochRoot has it right. The only protegee that Belichick has a strained relationship with is Eric Mangini. Everyone else has left on good terms.
by NESilver on Mar 12, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the clarification
It’s just that if you want to throw stuff on the wall.
THIS site will call you on it.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't calling out you :)
AP would ban me :)
Enoch Root
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably more to do with what was on the laptop
Laptops are replaceable, they’re more or less out of date by the time they hit the shelves. It may have had more to do with the data on the laptop. I don’t know everything that happened, but if there was draft reports or game plans on the computer that would be a huge deal.
by Chiefs4Life on Mar 12, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How bout Video?
SexAssasin would like!
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agency
They should trade the first pick in the draft and have Arizona agree to paying the first year on Anquain Boldens contract for Bolden. This would create huge openings for not only Bowe but Gonzalez and Larry Johnson. No more just playing the run and blitzing on us during passing downs. I think it could work. Man that would be huge.
by munit350 on Mar 12, 2009 11:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why
We have 36M in cap? Gives us Boldin and we might pay Warner’s 1st year salary
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 12, 2009 11:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
travis daniels
BB said he was interested in him did pioli care? nope he signed him that is why I think pioli is the real deal
by chiefs58 on Mar 13, 2009 2:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now calm down
Pats fan here – Pioli will be a great GM for you. He hasn’t gone out and overspent in free agency. Neither have the Pats. Overspending on FA’s is not the way to build a team, which won’t be built in a year. A lot of good players will become available between now and the start of the season. The Pats are holding off too on big signings. There’s been a lot of overpaying going on, driven I think by the impending non-cap year in 2010. Players want really big bucks to sign multi-year deals (look at Bodden, for example, who wouldn’t agree to a $16 million deal with the Pats, preferring a one year deal so he could be a free agent with no cap.)
The Chiefs have made a great start with Cassel – let’s hope they sign him to a long term deal. He’s for real. He really came on last year – he truly got better with each game. And Vrabel – the Pats defensive captain who wore the headset during games – is a coach on the field.
As for Evans, Pioli was being nice, I think. Evans is a good player, but not worth a multi-million long term deal. He’s ok as a blocker (Russ Hochstein on the Pats is a better FB blocker) and he’s shaky catching passes out of the backfield. His bonehead 12th man penalty cost the Pats a game vs the Colts last year.
So calm down already!
by Chuckjones on Mar 13, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I’m not sure a Lion-Tamer could calm down this crowd.
Maybe Daniel Old Testament might have a shot :)
Stick around there will be more NE stuff to come. Betcha :)
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 13, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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