Report: Bills Interested in Trading for Chiefs OG Brian Waters
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 3:51 PM CST
in 2009 Offseason
91 comments
According to Pat Moran of Scout, the Buffalo Bills are interested in the Kansas City Chiefs Brian Waters, who recently expressed his displeasure with the Chiefs new managment team head coach Todd Haley and GM Scott Pioli.
According to the reports posted in this space just two days ago, Waters asked to be released or traded. Waters, according to the Kansas City Star, cited Haley's "arrogance" and Pioli's denial of a meeting request by Waters as the reasons for his sudden change of heart.
The Bills have a need at left guard following Derrick Dockery's release just two seasons into a 7 year, $49 million contract.
Moran speculates that the Bills could be interested in a deal similar to the one that landed them Marcus Stround last year. The Jaguars ultimately landed an extra 3rd and 5th round draft pick as compensation.
An argument for the trade
If this compensation were available then the Chiefs should get the deal done. Pioli values mid round picks as much as anyone and should pounce on a deal that would give him an extra 3rd rounder in exchange for a player who obviously wants out.
No player is bigger than the team and the way Jason Whitlock's piece in the Kansas City Star was perceived by the folks outside One Arrowhead Drive, Waters doesn't want to play for the Chiefs in '09.
An argument against the trade
Though the compensation for Waters would be nice, the effect would be devastating. The Chiefs are nearing a rather large investment in Matt Cassel and desperately need help on the offensive line.
With LT Brandon Albert in tow, the Chiefs left side is fairly well set. Waters' departure would take even more talent away from an already talent depleted unit.
***
Another tidbit to keep in mind is that Waters' acts as his own agent. If his personal relationship is strained with Pioli and Haley already, it'll be difficult to approach them in a business manner.
Right now, Waters acting as his own agent may represent a liability to his negotiating power.
Head on over to Buffalo Rumblings to see what they think about the report.
H/T ComeSackMyQB in the FanPosts
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Nice work ComeSackMyQB
3rd and a 5th? Shoot I know this would kill our talent level on the line but that’s awfully tempting considering he’s already 32.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
3rd and 5th is a pretty good deal. I think we can get even more seeing as Buffalo is desperate for a guard
by SayHeyWerd on Mar 1, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Beat me
Just posed a fanshot on this
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
by Jason Shore on Mar 1, 2009 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I got tipped off by ComeSackMyQB in the FanPosts
Dang, I used to be first all the time :)
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a Pro Bowl guard with at least 3 years left in the tank
I want a 2nd and a 6th
by Vince D on Mar 1, 2009 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Haha. NO!
I think the feeling is right player, right price. 32 isn’t too old for an O-Lineman, but we’ve got too many needs and 32 is 32. A lot of us over there are feeling like a mid-late pick plus a vet in the deal would be good, but we don’t know who we have that you guys would want, aside from something ludicrous, of course.
by WhyBillsWhy on Mar 4, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it intersting that a guy name ComeSackMyQB posted a fanpost about trading Brian Waters :)
With that in mind, we just invested a 2nd round pick and soon wil invest a lot of money in a guy we HOPE will be our franchise QB. You don’t turn around and trade off your Pro Bowl LG right after doing that.
Whatever pick you get for Waters you will turn around and draft a player to replace him that likely won’t be as good.
Waters is upset now but will get over it.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 1, 2009 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
K but if we can get a 2nd or third rounder + a late round pick
We can draft a replacement that will be with us a long time and pick up an extra guy. Waters only has a few years left. Ship him out while he’s worth his highest.
by Vince D on Mar 1, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What if the guy you draft busts out?
Everyone talks a lot about “rebuilding the O-line”. You can’t trade a Pro Bowler if you’re doing that and you can’t go into next year with 4 rookie offensive linemen and expect Cassel to be succesful.
We have the whole right side of the line to build from Center over. Waters can suck it up while we rebuild the right side and they can trade him in next year if they must.
by ChiefDJ on Mar 1, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea most get a kick out of it...
I started the name over on A.A. before last yrs draft and have kinda stuck with it. My name over there has changed to CincoOcho now. It was a tribute to our swinging gate policy the line held.
by ComeSackMyQB on Mar 1, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They may send him packing just to send a message
But I doubt it. We must build the O line, and we are not even sure who will play our RG, so how can we get rid of our LG? Doesn’t make sense.
by TheQ on Mar 1, 2009 4:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Buffalo Rumbler here
I doubt that the Bills would part with a 2nd rounder, the more probable scenario is a collection of picks, or picks and a player.
Question; would the Chiefs have a use for a guy like Roscoe Parrish? He has had trouble breaking through as a WR, but he is a great punt returner. Obviously I’m not thinking Waters for Parrish straight up, but maybe Parrish and a 4th?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We've got a couple of guys similar to Roscoe Parrish
So (and this is just a guess) I would doubt that.
But a mid round pick like a 3rd would probably be pretty intriguing to our front office.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping to dump a little trash in the deal also.
Can’t blame a guy for trying.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
The Bills 3rd rounder is 75th overall and their 5th rounder is 139th overall.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 4:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The thought
of Brian Waters and Jason Peters on the same line is intimidating
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 1, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
unless you are the DE that just ran around Peters.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was waiting
for “Jason Peters decline” comments from fellow Chiefs fans, but little did I expect it would come from a Bills fan ; ^ )
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 1, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a good player with worlds of talent, but for a guy who sat out all of training camp and all of preseason asking for more money, he had a bad year.
The pro-bowl is very overrated.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He certainly
did not deserve his nomination. Ryan Clady got ripped
by KansasCityShuffle on Mar 1, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad thing is we play Buffalo at home next year
I would puke on my self watching him comeback to Arrowhead as a Bill, but a 3rd and 5th round pick in the draft may get me over that feeling
.
by Major Tom on Mar 1, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For a 3rd and a 5th?
See ya! Pick 75th seems like a great spot to get an interior lineman to replace him.
by HIV 2 Elway on Mar 1, 2009 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd apologize to Brian Waters
Sure no player is bigger than the team, but Waters has been a great chief, an outstanding member of the community, (isn’t he always up for NFL Man of the Year,) and I can’t remember the guy ever causing a problem. This seems like a bad omen. I hope we find a way to keep him, a simple apology would probably do it. Why destroy a fragile line for a few picks that likely won’t amount to what Waters already is.
by just a guy on Mar 1, 2009 4:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Screw that
Kudos for the community work, but this is a business, and until we realize that this franchise will never turn around
.
by Major Tom on Mar 1, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
business huh
well lets just get rid of B.W,T.G,and L.Jand get what picks we can would you like that? lol
by CPT.Caveman on Mar 1, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Read the post on the NE way
This is exactly what Belichek would have done.
Thanks for your good work Mr. Vrabel
Next
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another Bills fan here
personally I would be very happy to exchange a 3rd and 5th for Waters. Poili loves the picks and knows how to use them and Waters is the road grader the Bills need to help Marshawn and Fred Jackson get a solid power running game going. It seems like we could both benefit.
Has Waters started to show decline yet?
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
by poz on Mar 1, 2009 4:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
hey what are you doing here?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Waters improved dramatically even over the last year
by Vince D on Mar 1, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2007 some of us thought he was washed up, and last year he made the Pro Bowl.
So I guess it depends on who he’s playing next to.
by Vince D on Mar 1, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not serious decline
I bet a couple more years at a competent level. But it’s always hard to tell with those 300+ lbs guys.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
reply to primetime 07 and Vince
sounds like he’s still got plenty in the tank, do you see your oline as a rebuilding project? If so, maybe you could use our picks rather than keep him?
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
by poz on Mar 1, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the debate
With a 3rd round pick you could get a pretty good interior lineman but Waters is so valuable to us right now I’m not sure it would be worth it.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We'd like to think we could get more than a 3rd & 5th
Sounds like a pretty standard pro bowl guard deal, bet we could easily bid war this up a 2nd or better.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Mar 1, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yea im in the middle right now do u think we could get a 2nd maybe?
by kcchiefsfan56 on Mar 1, 2009 4:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i think
the Bills have too many positional holes for the front office to give up a 2nd. We need a tight end bad, are in DIRE need of a defensive end, and an outside linebacker in addition to guard. I think the front office will address two of those needs in the first two rounds.
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
by poz on Mar 1, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How bout Waters for 3 and 5
Tony G for # 2
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Maybe If Buffalo gives us all their picks we could set them up.
Plus throw in some BBQ to go with their Wings :)
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we would love Tony G
but we tried that and he said no last season. Even if Pioli forced him he sure wouldn’t be happy about it.
I know he said he wants to go to a championship contender but we got great weather…..maybe if you throw in some of that BBQ he’ll be ok.
Roscoe Parrish, 2nd rounder and a 5th for Tong G and Waters?
If we can finagle DE Brian Orakpo and C Alex Mack I will not complain about this team for a whole season. I promise.
by poz on Mar 1, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your'e 2-7
You get Waters, Gonzalez, and Hali.
Plus as added bonus you get to keep Roscoe.
Deal? Oh BBQ forgot the BBQ
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade him
for at least a 3rd round pick. It would be awesome to find a team that would give a 2nd round pick – in essence get a 2nd round pick back for 2009. There’s no way it would be a 5th rounder. I know it will be done because Pioli had said, he wanted SMART football player that want to be here. Since Waters is disgruntled and got off the wrong foot with Haley, it would not make sense for him to turn this around.
Waters might have another 2 solid years if not 3 left in him, so trade him for a value 2nd rounder while his services are still valuable.
by 58 was my friend on Mar 1, 2009 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
when are we gonna announce Cassels new deal?
by SayHeyWerd on Mar 1, 2009 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
probably never
cassel knows better than to tell anyone
by Vince D on Mar 1, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for a second rounder Yes
for a 3rd i would say no. We need him around to mentor the younger guys and show them the ropes. Losing him would be not only losing a great player but a good mentor as well. He’ll get over his problems i’m sure.
by KCCheeze on Mar 1, 2009 4:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No less than a 2nd
Otherwise no deal. It’s not about Brian and his tender sensibilities, it is what makes KC better.
by FrankPitts on Mar 1, 2009 5:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't want him dealt
But if its going to happen, it needs to be for a 2nd + something else, maybe a 5th or a player.
I still wouldn’t love it, simply because we don’t know who will still be there at the Bills 2nd pick. We could wait until draft day, I suppose to make sure Unger or Mack were there before making the move…
The problem is, AT BEST it’s a lateral move, you’re not getting any better replacing Waters with Unger even, he’s got 3 years left in him, let him play out his contract here.
You make that deal, and right now we have literally 1 OL that is legit…sorry, we need to be adding to the OL, not subtracting.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How bout
Monrow Albert Wood Niswanger Willis
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, but...
But now you’ve used up our 1st and 3rd round picks on OL
You keep him, we can take Curry at #3 and Wood hopefully in round 3…
Also, until Willis is on the roster, or comes here for a visit, I’m not going to pencil him in. Plus he’s talking to the Redskins last I heard…and thats trouble for our chances.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How bout Curry at LB AND
Albert Waters Wood Niswanger Willis
See, what I’m saying, brother!
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks good to.
Let’s see what Pioli has in mind.
I think he goes even more outside the BOX than this place can even comprehend.
What is that line One mind is better than the sum of 300 put together Sic
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Yup, agreed.
Thats what I said on the other thread…I’m not really even worried about this rumor, b/c I know Pioli values interior lineman so much, he’ll make sure we’re covered.
He took Mankins in the 1st round, remember, a great pick, as it turns out.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Redskins Chiefs we're all brothers on the reservation.
Plus how much more money can Redskins spend?
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've been all over Willis
What in particular has you excited about him over guys like Khalif Barnes?
Did he get signed, btw?
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have to say I just read about Willis on one of the posts here
He is young and I haven’t read up on Barnes. Willis is more a placeholder for a good RT upgrade to put Mac on bench for backup.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pleasantly surprised with the poll
After the posts the other day, I didn’t expect it.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was on Waters side the other day
I’ve traded sides for a 3 and a 5.
Call me easy, but don’t call me late for Dinner :)
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bills
They are an eyelash away from tampering, Waters is under contract and the KC brass has not uttered one word about trading him, they better back off.
by FrankPitts on Mar 1, 2009 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The report indicates
That the Bills have contacted the Chiefs about it. It would only be tampering if they spoke to Waters directly.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OR his agent
kcsno56 I had a long nite Friday about Waters. I love the Guy but to get two for one
is a sailors dream. Plus we can package and go plus/plus with Buffalo.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
If we knew that one of the two picks we were getting could give us a Waters replacement, then sure, but its pretty unlikely we could get anything near Waters level production from the 75th pick.
Or lets look at it yet another way, Waters, one of the top 5 or so OG’s in the game vs. around the 5th best interior lineman in this years draft…b/c thats about what’ll be available.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But we will be addressing replacing Waters Sooner rather than later.
If Chiefs have a # 1, 2-3’s,a 4, 2-5’s, 6, and 7.
We are right in the wheelhouse of Pioli for Centers, Guards, and Linebackers.
We sent an army of coaches to Indianapolis and I’m sure they know who they want right now and where they need to be drafted.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Shields a third round pick
Guys get overlooked all the time. Dave Szott a seventh, we have a good talent evaluator now, relax guys.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Mar 1, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waters is his own agent. so how do you get around that for a tampering charge?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Mar 1, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE DRAFT MONROE! (if he's there)
Waters running dry! If they say they want OUT, get’em OUT! I’m TIRED of hearing it! The CHIEFS need a RT and DE"s ! BARRY RICHARDSON WILL FILL IN FOR WATERS. Anyone think THIGGY will be on the field with CASSEL on the same play?
by Dan Saleaumua on Mar 1, 2009 5:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Monroe
Might have some knee issues.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but ...
If our line is Albert – Richardson – Nieswanger – (whoever) – Sackintosh, then there’s a good chance that Cassel and Thiggy both wind up on the injured reserve, unless you can figure out some sort of scheme where Albert does ALL of the blocking.
We’d be much better off with a guy like Curry at #3 than trading away Waters and making it so that we have to get Monroe (and that’s only if St Louis doesn’t get him first).
by JacinB on Mar 1, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
I think Herb Taylor deserves a shot at RT.He did a pretty good job filling in for Albert. Move Rudy to RG and get a center in FA or the draft and we would have a pretty good line going into next year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Mar 1, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel is 6'5
I think Niswanger is 6’5. Richardson 6’6
Just Willie Anderson Ravens T might be released. Is he RT material
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 6:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
To finish thought
Unlike with Thigpen, Cassel would have no trouble with 6’5 ish lineman to see over.
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Starting RT for Ravens haven't found his Measurements yet
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 1, 2009 6:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he's an upgrade over McIntosh
He’s older, too
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing Against Waters
But if the Bills offer a 3rd and a 5th, the Chiefs should jump on it and not think twice about it. He’s a good guard, but he’s an old guard and he’s not happy here and frankly guards aren’t that tough to replace. This is probably as sell high as Waters is going to get.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Mar 1, 2009 7:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Left Guards
Aren’t all that easy to replace, and are very valuable, its why the good ones have been getting insane contracts the last couple years.
If we had a replacement lined up, then the trade would be more palatable, but as it stands now I don’t think it makes sense.
It would essentially force us to draft a LT with the #3 pick and move Albert to LG, which doesn’t make a lot of sense, IMO.
by kcsno56 on Mar 1, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
May be part of the plan already.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
by Eric Allen on Mar 1, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could
Herb Taylor play RT this season
by A true chiefs fan on Mar 1, 2009 7:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought he had trouble last year, guys?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Mar 1, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think HE
Can block he Just jumps off sides
by A true chiefs fan on Mar 1, 2009 7:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If we are going to trade any vets we need to do it before camp
When the new schemes are installed we need all the new guys involved from day one. Actually it would be nice to have them by the OTA’s in May.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Mar 1, 2009 7:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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