The Other Side of the Chiefs Trade for Matt Cassel
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 9:57 AM CST
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The Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel is getting national praise for GM Scott Pioli. Arrowhead Pride responded with a 91% approval of the trade and the general tone in the comments was positive. In this case, the potential reward far outweighs the risk.
But there's another side to the Cassel trade. Some are calling him the next Scott Mitchell while others are reminding folks that Bill Belichick knows what he's doing and wouldn't take a below market deal.
The Next Scott Mitchell
Ron Borges of the Boston Herald penned a piece that took the next Scott Mitchell angle. His league sources said they're not impressed with Cassel, especially considering the talent he had around him in New England.
"I look at Cassel and I think Scott Mitchell," one longtime NFC personnel man said yesterday. "That’s who I see."
I'm not a professional judge of talent so my argument against Cassel being the next Scott Mitchell isn't complete. There's always a chance that the team has fallen in love with Cassel and are grading him optimistically.
The argument against this of course is that Pioli has been around Cassel for the last four years and knows him as well as anyone else.
Bill Belichick Doesn't Do Any Favors
"Bill Belichick wouldn’t do his mother a favor," one NFL insider scoffed yesterday. "Anybody who looks at this deal and thinks he did doesn’t know him. Or the guys he just traded."
To me it doesn't necessarily bode well from the Chiefs perspective if Belichick dealt him for what has been perceived as a below market deal.
Pioli said he and Belichick agreed on a player 95% of the time. I wonder if Cassel is one of the 5%.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. You know how we've been saying 'In Pioli We Trust' around here? In New England the mantra is 'In Bill We Trust'.
The Deal Wasn't Below Market
Mike Reiss of the Boston Globe opines that the deal isn't as lopsided as some say. He argues that the market was never there for Cassel in the first place and it's not a "fleece job." The Patriots never had the leverage to swing a deal better than the one they got.*
I gotta disagree on this one. I'm not privy to the talks between Detroit and New England but if the Lions were involved, couldn't they offer a higher second round pick (33rd to the Chiefs 34th)? And why would the Pats trade him to an AFC team over a NFC team is the offers were equal (which the Lions 2nd round pick would have been)?
Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe says that the fans should learn by now that the Patriots operate without emotions and Belichick got the best deal that was out there.
Most fans have come to accept the abject bloodlessness of Patriot Place. There are no gold watches or thank you notes passed out in Foxborough. Sentiment is wasted energy. When the Patriots are done with you, they say, "We wish [insert popular player's name] the best," then they move on to the next guy. Thanks for the Super Bowl rings you delivered, now turn in your playbook and clean out your desk. We'll walk you to your car.
Merlin from Arrowhead Addict disagrees with the trade:
What QB has come off the bench, had a good year then moved to another team and became a top QB? Scott Mitchell? Matt Schaub? Billy Volek? What QB has moved away from throwing to Randy Moss and done as well elsewhere? Daunte Culpepper?
Jason Whitlock took the pessimistic approach to the situation. There's some discussion in the FanShots about his piece.
***
My natural position on the Chiefs is optimism right now. So when I heard about the trade I immediately made up my mind that it was a good move. I agreed with the trade based partly on Cassel's play and partly on my trust in the Chiefs new management team.
The detractors of the trade listed above make good points but I keep coming back to the fact that Pioli and Belichick worked together and they both drafted Cassel and our guy, Pioli, chose him. I pretty much trust all his moves at this point. With his track record in New England he hasn't given us any reason to think otherwise.
The Cassel to the Chiefs trade could end up defining the Pioli/Belichick split. If it works out in the Chiefs favor, then Pioli has fully stepped out of the shadow. If Cassel flops, then Belichick stroked his magic wand once again.
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Yeah there are two
sides to every story. while there is a chance that cassel could be a scott mitchell type, the reward far outweighs the risk in my opinion. Basically when it comes down to it you are drafting a franchise quarterback with half a second round pick. Now the last qb we drafted with a similar pick turned out to be made of glass, but cassel at least has some track record in the NFL. Basically its hard to make a compelling counter argument that against this trade in my opinion.
Yep
Put it this way….Is Cassel better than Stafford or Sanchez? Yes. And he cost less than both of those guys (and probably less than Josh Freeman if he goes in the first round).
Management apparently decided Thigpen wasn’t the guy so they went out and got the best player available. It’s a solid move.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Yep,at least with pieces around him
we know Cassel can play, a rookie QB is a shot in the dark.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Completely agree.....
…..and we still have Thigpen who does seem to have some good potential. The quarterback situation is fixed for now and they can proceed with FA and the draft having already strengthened two week spots.
"Slash" Thigpen
We’ll see how imaginative Haley and Gailey are.
If they use Thigpen periodically in the same backfield with Cassel what does the other team’s defense have to worry about?
mkaynan
Ron Borges' comments don't really hold much water
in my opinion considering the following:
“The Boston Globe today suspended without pay for two months a veteran sports reporter, Ron Borges, after allegations that he had plagiarized a portion of a football column from another sportswriter.”
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/03/globe_suspends.html
Yeah I remember hearing that
I can see how the New England writers would be more biased with Belichick and his success though.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Wonder if Chan was in on this discussion?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
I'm sure he was
It only makes sense because he was the offensive coordinator.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Man I would like to
be able to hide in a corner at Arrowhead, and just watch , and listen. I would be sworn to secrecy!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Whitlock could not hide as wellas me!:)
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Chiefs got a steal...
2 starters for one 2nd rounder. Any rookie qb we could have drafted would have to do his time on the bench. Cassells done it already, as is now set to come in and BALL!
Agreed
I keep looking at it as Cassel vs. Stafford/Sanchez and considering the compensation for each this is a good deal.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
Imagine we were talking about using the #3 overall on Cassel? Which, even if this deal was for the #3 pick, it wouldn’t be the worst trade in the world. The fact that it was just a second makes this very pleasing to me.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
besides if cassell doesnt pan out
he is not contracted. he is playing for the chiefs on a fanchise tender.
He'll sign a long-term deal this offseason
There’s no way he enters the season without a long-term deal.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
They are working on a long term deal correct?
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
No reports indicating that
But the deal was likely made with the assumption that he’ll be signed to a long-term deal.
We wouldn’t give up a 2nd for him then risk him getting a massive offer in free agency. My guess is the parameters of the deal will be discussed soon, if they haven’t already.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
What about Cassell + Thigpen
running the Wildcat? We know Thiggys got wheels and can catch. That would be tight!
Why not?
I think the front office knows Thigpen has some value to the Chiefs and will use him wherever they can.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
OK, now lets work on protecting this QB!
We need o-line help in the worst way now, it appears we now have our franchise QB.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Yep
Signing Cassel now means there’s a bigger emphasis on protecting him. I’m just trying to forget how awful our offensive line was in a traditional style offense and without a mobile QB.
by Joel Thorman on Mar 1, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Want me some pancakes!
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Sour grapes
When someone gets a new car that you don’t like I bet you say it a piece of junk. That is what NE people are doing.
Build the offfense first,
then work on the defense? After all without points, you cannot do shit.
Now hopefully this team is fun to watch again! Thanks Scott, Clark!!
Hey, I'd bet it was just the timing..............
A three way trade would have been much more complicated and I’m sure that the Patriot’s have other deals that they wanted to get to work on. They need the cap room right away.
What QB has come off the bench, had a good year then moved to another team and became a top QB?
Jon Kitna? Kurt Warner? Trent Green? Not exactly the same situation, but I’m just sayin. Elvis Grbac wasn’t bad, he just had a two cent head. He did make a Pro Bowl as a Chief though.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Absolutely.
That AA quote made my blood boil. They’re just pissed that now that Vick/Cowher to KC ain’t gonna happen.
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
Don't forget Gannon
We let him go to our arch-nemesis and he played like a star.
Re: the Cutler, Tampa Bay, 1st and 3rd round to NE deal.
Some you here are speculating wildly about “Belichick sticking it to McDaniels” or that “NE turned the offer down”. These things simply aren’t true.
The KC/NE deal was essentially finalized before Tampa Bay called NE to make the offer. NE wanted to take the deal, but there was nothing that could be done about it. The paper work was already in the league office. This has been confirmed by WEEI (radio in Boston) and was initially reported by Mortenson.
The Patriots even called around to the teams who had expressed interest before they finalized the deal with KC and no one responded. KC had the best offer and there were no signs that anyone else was interested. So, the deal went through. That’s the story, as confirmed by Mike Felger on WEEI (he used to work the Patriots’ beat for years at the Boston Herald).
When I say that NE wanted to take the deal, I mean that they wanted to take the Tampa Bay deal when they offered it, but it was too late. The paper work with KC was already done.
by a tommy point on Mar 1, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Not fond of him either, but he had this one right.
Schefter is owns ESPN when it comes to scoops.
by a tommy point on Mar 1, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
It's Not A Matter Of Being Fond Of Mort
It’s a matter of being suspicious that he actually fabricates sources and stories.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
This video really answers all the questions....
They say Cassel may be the 5-8th best QB in the NFL. We’ll see….
lol will see
that was behind the patriots o-line !!!!!!!! Now lets see what he does behind the chiefs o-line,im not sold on this yet.We now have a 14 million dollar qb who is going to get killed because we have made not one move to sign anyone,damn brown would have been nice,our o-line is crap!!!!!!!I also think tyler thigpen could have won 11 games with the patriots!!!!!
Cassel Trade
Only time will tell who is the personnel genius – Belichek or Pioli.
mkaynan
Is it possible they both are?
Looks like a good deal for both sides. Maybe Pioli got hooked up for his years of loyal service, like a nice parting gift?
LOL... Borges
Easily one of the worst writers out there. Don’t read anything he puts out regarding Belichick, as he is no better than your average troll.
Anyone else think...
…this is was the media will use as the be-all-end-all reference point to decide who was the brains behind the New England Dynasty? It will be a completely UNFAIR implication, mind you, but that is how the media works. If Cassel busts: “Belichick was obviously the brains behind NE.” If Cassel turns out to be great: “Clearly Scott Pioli was the genius working in the NE dynasty.”
Again, completely naive and unfair to ascertain either, but I can just about guarantee you that is was will happen before the end of next year.
Going on to these reports that Cassel is the next Scott Mitchell, all of those assumptions COMPLETELY ignore one key factor that I think is more than worth noting: TWO of the teams that apparently wanted Cassel (Denver & KC) both had initiators of the trade who WORKED IN THE PATRIOTS ORGANIZATION no more than THREE MONTHS AGO. One was the V.P. of Player Personnel and one was Cassel’s personal coach. Those don’t sound like people who aren’t WELL AWARE of what they were to be given.
Exactly right.......
Those that know Cassel knew that he is the real thing.
Patriots fans are used to this...
What do you think happened when Tom Brady went down? The media couldn’t wait to see who was responsible for New England’s success. The question became, “Is Belichick really a genius, or was it just Tom Brady all those years?”
Belichick answered with an 11-5 season.
Not a two-value question
Maybe Bill was the guiding hand, but everyone contributes to winning, just like everyone “helps” failure to come about.
Which isn’t to say that you’re entirely wrong there, “KCGold”. ;-)
Cassel vs. Thigpen in Camp should improve the play of both.
Next on the need list: linebacker, and both lines
by Bleedingredandgold on Mar 1, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Heh, you just gotta feel the love here!
Besides, there are worse nicks. “NESilver&Black” springs to mind…
{Grins Evilly}
Cassel vs. Thigpen in Camp should improve the play of both.
Next on the need list: linebacker, and both lines
by Bleedingredandgold on Mar 1, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
Even if he does flop
which i don’t think he will, It’ll only be for a second round pick. Its not like its gonna set our franchise back for years. We got Vrabel in the deal as well
yeah
for the trade to be a bust, both Cassel & Vrabel gotta suck. Either one excels, and it’s FTW for us.
Cassel vs. Thigpen in Camp should improve the play of both.
Next on the need list: linebacker, and both lines
by Bleedingredandgold on Mar 1, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
We received two starters for one draft pick
That’s all that matters. We gave up a high second rounder for someone else’s backup QB and an old LB, but the QB has shown he can play at a high level (higher than Thiggy) and the LB has maybe a few years left in the tank. Two starters for one pick sounds like a good deal to me. Wish we would have signed Brown to replace the loss of drafting Mack/Unger with that high second though.
lol come on
How can anyone compare the 2 qb’s ,yes cassel looked good but who wouldnt in that offense!!!!!Let me see tyler thigpen in that offense for 16 games then ill tell you who’s better!!! signing cassell not only cost us the 34th pick but more hole’s to fill!!!! At least tyler did a good job with the o-line we had,the d-fense was the problem we lost 6 or 7 games by 7 points or less because of the d-fense!!!!!!Now we have the chance to draft aaron curry but we wont,cause they will now trade down for more picks to make up for the loss of the 34th pick watch and see
They won't be able to trade down
Few teams want to trade into the top 5. The only hope we really have is someone being desperate for Crabtree, and I doubt that will happen since he hasn’t been able to work out this offseason. I still see us taking Curry at #3, but if we can trade sown I’d be fine with taking Cushing at OLB and finding an O lineman with the additional pick we’d get. That would improve our D and get some protection for our new QB. Which brings us to comparing the QBs. I’m not knocking Thiggy, and it’s true most QBs could play well with the talent pool in NE, but Cassel had very completion % and TD:INT ratio. Thiggy made some poor decisions that I don’t think Cassel would have made. The point is Cassel can play and Thigs can play, now they actually get to compete for the spot, which makes the team better. We still picked up two starting quality players for one draft pick.
great points
The Deal Wasn’t Below Market
Mike Reiss of the Boston Globe opines that the deal isn’t as lopsided as some say. He argues that the market was never there for Cassel in the first place and it’s not a “fleece job.” The Patriots never had the leverage to swing a deal better than the one they got.*
I gotta disagree on this one. I’m not privy to the talks between Detroit and New England but if the Lions were involved, couldn’t they offer a higher second round pick (33rd to the Chiefs 34th)? And why would the Pats trade him to an AFC team over a NFC team is the offers were equal (which the Lions 2nd round pick would have been)?
the performance enhancing drugs argument begins with lassic eye surgery
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