Did NE Really Get The Worst Part of the Deal?
by Nelly on Feb 28, 2009 5:31 PM CST
29 comments
I have been reading several comments here as well as other sites about how NE gave up Cassel and Vrabel for literally nothing by only taking the 34th pick overall. After hearing Mike Lombardi from the NFLN, it made me think that the trade is not that bad for NE.
What did NE really give up? They gave up an aging linebacker that is due to become a free agent next year and a QB that was only going to be a back up for them.
All signs point to Tom Brady being healthy again so the need for Cassel was not that great. Let's remember that this is the team that groomed a 6th and a 7th round pick into starting quaterbacks. Also take into consideration that Brady will be only 32 at the beginning of the season which for a quaterback is relatively young. Cassel will be 27 so is not like NE was going to keep him around until Brady retired.
So we gave up ONLY the 34th pick! I have to agree with Mike Lombardi when he said that 2nd round picks are worth a lot. Teams expect that a 2nd round pick will be an immediate starter or someone that can contribute. Click on the link and watch the video to hear his take on this (is at about the 7:34 mark).
So in essence NE gave up someone that they were not going to retain next year and someone that was not going to see the field for them for a draft pick that will be a starter for them and approximately 20 mil in cap space. I don't know about you but that seems like a good deal to me on NE's part.
I am extremely excited for the Chiefs due to this trade because if Cassel is all that we think he can be, giving up a a 2nd round pick for him is nothing. However let's not be so quick to think that NE got hosed in this deal.
**There is also an interesting comment posted on the fanshots by Chris from the Pats Pulpit. Click on link below
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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yeah not so bad,
they probably could have had more, but it doesnt really affect New England. Cassel wasnt gonna start and who knows how often Vrabel would play for them. So there trading two players that they probably wont use much for a high second round pick. Decent for the Pats
by SayHeyWerd on Feb 28, 2009 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
34th pick
Is like a 1st rounder in these eyes. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, we got fleeced and don’t even know it yet
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 28, 2009 5:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Translation
I would not trade Max Unger or Alex Mack for Cassel/Vrabel….
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 28, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I would, and it seems like everyone else in the football world would too
by SayHeyWerd on Feb 28, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me Too
Two starters in 2009 for a 2nd.
I think this trade helped KC and allowed NE some manuever room in FA and Draft.
WIN WIN
something Peterson didn’t comprehend
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 28, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
What if you’re wrong about Cassel and he repeats last years numbers every year?
You have to take a gamble on a franchise QB at some point.
Look at it this way. Would you trade Alex Mack or Unger (likely 2nd round picks) for Aaron Curry (likely 1st round pick)?
Because at some point we were going to have to draft a QB of the future and it means losing out on some guys at other positions you would like to have.
We got two starters out of the 2nd round pick instead of just one. That’s a good deal in my eyes as long as Cassel doesn’t turn out to be another Derrick Anderson.
by ChiefDJ on Feb 28, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could very well be wrong about Cassel
I was damn wrong about Thigpen. But what if I’m right….and he’s a system QB?
I realize completely you have to gamble on a franchise QB at some point, but Cassel does not have the pedigree of a QB I would do so on
Why pick and choose over Mack/Unger or Curry when you could have possibly gotten them both with our 1st & 2nd
The 2 starters for the price of is valid, but how long can we count on Vrabel and what if Cassel doesn’t work out? I just infinitely trust Pioli picking out better talent top of R2 than I did Peterson so it seems less of a gamble to me. I guess you could counter that if I trust Pioli’s ability to draft so well why wouldn’t I have faith in his trades? It’s because I’m just not sold on Matt Cassel
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 28, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Cassell either
I have big fears that he could be another Derrick Anderson.
I comfort those fears by telling myself that Pioli, having spent the last 10? years around Tom Brady, would have gotten a pretty dang good idea at what the makeup physically, mentally and emotionally of a superstar QB looks like. And that Matt Cassel has spent the last 4 years studying under arguably the best QB in NFL history and being coached by one of the best coaches in NFL history.
So he has had the right “upbringing” if you will. Now all that is left is for us to sit back with our fingers crossed and hope that what Pioli is seeing in him that has him so excited about him is real.
by ChiefDJ on Feb 28, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we could say
Matt is a second year player with a 4 year veteran mentorship under his belt from one of the games best?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 28, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Okay With Cassel
I don’t think he’s as good as Brady (not many are) but he’ll be a solid starter for the Chiefs…a worst-case scenario of Trent Green type production (which is pretty darned good) and possibly much better. If you can get a starting QB like that for a 2nd round pick then you’ve done well. When you can get that plus another player who upgrades a need (Vrabel’s aging, but he’s still better than what we had at OLB) then you’ve done very well.
And the Pats didn’t do badly, considering how they were trading from a position of need if Brady’s knee is fine. They couldn’t tie up that much of their cap space on a backup when they had so many other needs. They didn’t get a great pick for him, but they got a very good one and now they have room to improve their team in other areas. Great trade for the Chiefs, good trade for the Patriots.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 28, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres no question it was a good deal for the Chiefs
You have a guy that was a top 10 QB in his first year starting mentored by the best coach and best QB in the NFL.
PLUS you get an instant leader for your defense that most of our young guys grew up watching on TV. Even if he isn’t as quick on the field as he once was, the leadership Vrabel can supply is priceless.
Who cares if Vrabel will retire in another couple years. And maybe Cassel turns out to be the second coming of Derrick Anderson. But for a 2nd rounder, it was certainly worth the risk and no more risky than drafting a QB a 1st round QB.
by ChiefDJ on Feb 28, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha....bad call....
Yea, I definitely wouldnt trade an interior Offensive Lineman for a franchise quarterback AND defensive leader….
ridiculous shuffle…
by woodman212 on Mar 1, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are the only one who thinks we got the raw end of the deal
Sorry..Cassell looks pretty damn good to me..He’s got all of the intangibles..Last year was his first year even playing..He was essentially a rookie..Give it a rest
by CALIFAN1986 on Feb 28, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically
there’s a slim chance Thigpen could beat out Cassel for the starting job. Cassel may be given the de facto starting job but if he doesn’t play well and Thigen prevails (like last season) we could be in essence giving up a 2nd rounder for a backup QB. When we’re rebuilding and rely on every draft pick we can get, this in my opinion was a risky move. But so is the draft I guess..
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 28, 2009 5:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There is no greater value to a team than a franchise QB
Pioli obviously believes that that guy is Matt Cassel after having been around him his entire college career.
It doesn’t matter what player at what position of need you are talking about, NONE OF THEM are as important as having that franchise guy. If Pioli was right about this and Cassel turns out to be that franchise QB, this will be the smartest move in Chiefs history.
If Cassel flops, well it would be no different than if they had spent a draft pick on a QB coming out of college and he busted. At least in this situation we only gave up a 2nd rounder instead of #3 overall.
by ChiefDJ on Feb 28, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
the 70 some million dollar contract we would have to sign a drafted QB in the first round to.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
by Shawn on Feb 28, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing
to consider is the impact Vrabel could have on Johnson and perhaps Curry if we draft him. That’s worth it as well.
by SpearChampion on Feb 28, 2009 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Only if we can protect him
My big fear right now is that we don’t do enough to strengthen our O line, and we end up with our new “Franchise QB” on IR. Cassel performed well because he had a pretty solid line and solid receivers. They also had a solid defense to keep the opponents scores down. When their O line collapsed, the QB did too. Sound familiar?
We have to get active building our O Line to protect this investment. I’m happy to have Cassel and Vrabel as Chiefs, but it takes a defense to stop the scoring and an O line to create the scoring opportunities. That must be our next and only focus through FA and the draft.
by TXChiefan on Feb 28, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What Number???
Any word on what number he will wear? Can’t wear that “16” in KC.
by ekzzhughes on Feb 28, 2009 8:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cassel, Money, and Accuracy
As a Pats fan, I think this is a great trade for both teams. Sam Cassel, unlike Brodie Croyle and Derek Anderson is a very accurate passer. He needs time to throw, is not very elusive, but is on par with Brady with accuracy. I can not comment on Thigpen since I have not seen enough of him. The Pats now have the 23rd, 34th, 47th, and 58th picks in the upcoming draft plus their normal 3rd through 7th round picks. All of these draft choices combined will cost less than the third pick in the draft. If the Chiefs had offered their third pick overall for this deal the Pats would have politely declined. The Pats are running a sustainable business. Pioli is really going to have a hard time with the 3rd pick. OL or LB? He may try to temporarily fix one of these through free agency. Too many needs, not enough time!
by Piolifan on Mar 1, 2009 1:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I also heard
that sam cassell got a championship ring last year with the celtics. winning tradition!
by The DBowe Show on Mar 1, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not everyone will agree but....
Do you think the fact he has started and played so little from college to now will actually help him be more durable? He has less wear and tear and has the talent, obviously, to be a starting QB some where. I said it before and i will say it again, i like this trade b/c we did not lose the #3 and adding leadership to our assbackwards linebacking core can never be seen as a bad move. This time we did both with one 2nd round pick
by xfatdannx on Mar 1, 2009 3:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
PIoli...
got hosed. I guess Belicek was the brains behind the Pats. Second round picks are gold. Is this Arrowhead Pride or Patriots Pride?
by choirboy on Mar 1, 2009 6:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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