Chiefs' Brian Waters Asks to be Moved; Offended by Haley's "Arrogance"
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:19 AM CST
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Kansas City Chiefs all pro guard Brian Waters has asked the team to release or trade him according to the Kansas City Star.
Waters met with new head coach Todd Haley but GM Scott Pioli wasn't interested in meeting with the 9 year veteran.
Per the Star:
Waters, according to the source, was offended and shocked by the arrogance of Haley and Pioli. Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversations confirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley that he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate, according to the source.
The Star's sources also say that the rumor that veteran players don't get along with Todd Haley is true.
The Cardinals players told Waters and tight end Tony Gonzalez that Haley, Arizona’s offensive coordinator, was aloof, condescending and ignored by veterans, the source said.
After the snub by Pioli, Waters asked Haley to be released or traded.
The source said when Waters informed Haley of his desire to relocate, Kansas City’s coach scolded Waters and indicated that the Chiefs would not release Waters from his contract.
Waters told Haley that the differences between them were "irreconcilible".
Pioli and Haley are getting off to a rough start with their tenure in Kansas City. Disgruntled running back Larry Johnson has already gone wacko and asked for his release. But he's done it in such a way that any trade value he had is quickly diminishing.
When Waters flew to Kansas City to meet with Haley, the new head coach reportedly told him "22 players off the street could win two games." On the one hand, I'm glad that Haley understands the ineptitude of the 2008 Chiefs. On the other hand, is this the proper approach when it comes to retaining one of the team's best players on an underachieving offensive line?
The news that Brian Waters wants out is shocking. He's been the consummate pro who has always supported the team and been considered one of the biggest positives in the Kansas City locker room.
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At least there's
some Chiefs news tonight… although not what I was hoping for.
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
no problem brosef
this is the storming stage of team building, it happens in all teams, psychological fact, this is the stage where conflict is highest because the individuals are sorting out what roles they will fufill on the team.
haha, Storming...
That makes me remember my management classes..storming, norming, conforming i think is the order.
Jokes aside, its a good point. Haley and Pioli are establishing themselves as Alpha Dogs, i wish it hadn’t been done so publically and with Waters but you knew something like this was bound to happen. This is progress, the organization is changing, Waters is partly upset because he probably has no clout in the organization anymore. I think things will clear up and the Chiefs will be better off.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Hope So
And you may be right that Waters’ frustration is also in his loss of influence.
Hadn’t seen you around for awhile. :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Classes and football dominate my life UC
But i’ll start making time for all of you…haha.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Aw Shit
I figured there would be feathers ruffled in KC. Waters was the last one I thought would be the one getting upset, though. What the hell is going on with the Chiefs?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I wonder
If it’s the culture shock of moving from Herm to Haley or if Haley really is that big of a you know what.
Although, why would Pioli deny a meeting with Waters? I don’t get it. What’s with the whose is bigger approach to one of your best players?
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
According To The Star
And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said.
If that’s true, I think I can understand why Waters is pissed. If my new boss opened up his first conversation with my by insulting my performance after I’d busted my ass and done my job, I’d probably write him off as an asshole too.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
and he made the Pro Bowl too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
On The Plus Side
If they decide to trade Waters, it’s not the worst time to do so because he’s coming off a Pro Bowl year and he still has a few more seasons in him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Then decide to trade him and do it
Him saying he wants out of KC does nothing but diminish his value.
No reason alienate players. That doesn’t help his value.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
ya especially
a guy that just walked out the super bowl damn
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Regarding Pioli
I’m assuming that he turned down the meeting because he was backing his coach…which is understandable. He doesn’t want the players doing the same thing to Haley that they did to all the other coaches…run to the GM if they’re unhappy and get him to undermine the coach.
On the other hand, if the coach is being unreasonable, then the GM probably needs to have a word.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
You and me both, UC. After reading the article, I don't know who to believe.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
I Had A First Sergeant Once Who Treated People Like That
He was an extremely insecure person, so he’d humiliate his NCOs in front of other people to try and break them down so they wouldn’t talk back. It’s a shitty leadership move…usually it only causes resentment and hatred towards the leader. If that’s how Haley’s running things, there are going to be problems.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
well haley has a proven track record
that he cannot deal with elite players T O and bolden and he was just coaching offense now he has the entire team in his hands not good . And I dont blame him for not putting up with T O who can but he has a history and now its starting with waters
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
T.O. Anyone Gets A Pass On
Nobody can deal with that guy for long, and Haley’s right about him…whatever team he’s on will never win a championship. Waters, however, is a guy who he shouldn’t have problems getting along with because a) the guy has always emphasized how much he wanted to be here, and b) he’s produced.
Seriously, Belichick can get away with being an asshole because he’s actually produced something in his career as a head coach. Haley, on the other hand, hasn’t produced anything as a head coach yet. Well, if he’s getting into pissing contests with his players, he’d better start soon.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Bellichick
Doesn’t get a pass on being an asshole because he’s produced.
He’d produced because he’s been an asshole.
In one aspect I understand where Waters is comming from. But there is a time and a place. He happened to pick a bad time to start this.
KC Tat Guy
Ya good timing for waters bad timing for coaches
But either way im sure more news will be coming soon maybe they just need time to cool off
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
From what I understand this was a one on one conversation
doesn’t sound to me that Haley was taking his legs out from him in front of others, maybe just giving him a tall glass of truth koolaid that didnt go down so well with the big fella, one way or another though all the players are gonna have to drink the koolaid
If It Was In A Hallway
It’s not a one-on-one conversation.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Right,
but who at Arrowhead has leaked any information about the goings-on? No one who wants to stay employed…
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
Waters, Apparently
All I’m saying is, if you’re a smart boss having a one-on-one conversation with an employee that you respect and who’s produced for you, that conversation is held in an office, often behind closed doors.
If you’re an asshole who lacks people skills and doesn’t have any respect for your employees, that conversation takes place in a hallway (where people may or may not be walking by) where you insult the guy. Productive employees with any level of pride don’t respond well to bosses who insult and degrade them the first time they talk to them…in fact, usually it’s the impetus for that employee to stop being so productive and to start looking for other jobs.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
This was my point last night
On the FA overthrow thread. I was amazed how pretty much the entire thread instantly turned on Waters.
Hey, I like the Pioli hire, too…but that doesn’t mean the guy isn’t going to make mistakes.
Waters went to KC looking to be shown respect, and he was told to f8ck off…thats not the way you handle one of your most important employees, especially one that probably enjoyed a completely open door with his previous boss.
This is a case of he said/she said
I don’t know who to believe anymore. All I know is that we don’t need drama that’s going to escalate ESPECIALLY right in the middle of FA.
This could’ve been handled better by both sides.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
One of my main points
Was that Waters has been a completely standup guy. The consumate professional that would sit there and take ALL the media questions after losses the last two years. I don’t know how anyone, up until last night could have questioned his character, in fact, I think if you ran a poll yesterday on this website, asking who the most respected leader on the Chiefs was, he’d have won with 60+%
And then to have people instantly turn on him, and not believe his story, and instead instanly back the new secretive GM thats been here 2 months, I was pretty shocked.
He could have handled it better, and I wished he could have taken a couple of days to calm down, and then try and talk to Pioli again…but I mean, when your boss tells you he has no interest in talking to you, its a slap in the face, I don’t have the money, ego, or importance of a position in my company that Waters has, but if I asked to talk to my boss and he told me he had no interest…I’d start looking for another gig tomorrow.
Not So Much A Case Of He Said/She Said
As he said/I’m not saying anything because fans aren’t worth giving information to.
This is what’s going to happen a lot because of the absolute secrecy policy. Only one side of the story is going to get out when there are problems and the fans are going to eventually going to turn on the guys who refuse to talk to them (unless they’re highly successful quickly) because they’re going to assume it’s the one who’s being secretive who’s the real problem.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Oh it'll get out
If it’s important enough, the brass will leak it. I don’t see Haley as being the type to keep his mouth shut. Given his track record on the sidelines, there will be birdies that’ll have the info out.
Either that or there’s going to be a Buddy Ryan scenarop on the sideline during a game. (I think I’m dating myself)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
scenario...not scenarop
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
i agree
that he should of pulled him aside and behind close doors to talk to him. But come one, we went 2-14. The team sucked last year. Just because Waters went to the Pro Bowl doesnt mean we didnt suck. He is a part of the team. Sounds to me like Waters pride was hurt a little bit.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, The Team Went 2-14
But the question to ask is “Is Brian Waters part of the reason the team went 2-14?” or is Waters the exception? Personally, I think that Waters and Gonzalez are the exceptions, where as guys like Larry Johnson were part of the cause. Waters did about all he could do to make this team a winner.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I agree
Its silly to think that b/c Waters was a player on this team, he should have that thrown at him, like he’s worthless. Football, more than most sports is a game which requires LOTS of talented players.
I could care less he went to the probowl, LJ’s been there too, I’m fine with him leaving.
What the hell is going on
when you think you know someone . Its Feb and we have three elite players want to bounce we havent even got to the draft yet and haley is already pissing people off
and we need a DC too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
our team was terrible last year and we actually getting worse. If LJ wants to leave, good riddance. But Tony G and Waters? Those guys are what I think of when I think about players I want on the team. Plus we let our d backs coach go and hired a bunch of Haley’s friends with track records of putting together crappy defenses. All I can say is that Haley and Pioli will get a short rope, they had better win right away. I will only except our team being seen as assholes and pricks if we win. Even then, I will be a little ashamed.
Damned
If Waters’ leaves, will that be the final straw for TG?
Waters was the quiet, loyal soldier under multiple HC's.
If he is fed up, then it is fair to assume the others will be too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
maybe he offended him
by evaluating his play and maybe questioned herms play calls for example what was herm thinking on that play why would he call that in that situation ?
The picture they use of him on The Star website
looks like he is a cross dresser with makeup on.
im really pissed right now
Everyone called this from the get go that haley was a douche within a week he proves everyone right .
He still has like 4 years left on his contract
So he’s not going anywhere.
What worries me
Is that from what I’ve heard Waters was kind of the de facto leader/voice to all these young players.
Now they see this voice saying he wants out. What will that do to the relationship between the rest of the players and management?
Exactly.
I can count the veteran leaders on our team after the cuts on 1 finger (TG), and he wants out too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
We had better sign some veteran, leader FA's now. We didn't have enough last year, and we are losing more.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
prime
exactly. Maybe the vets and the players are not use to these sort of micro managment everything always seemed to be like do your best now its like cut throat i dont know just a guess
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
+1
culture shock — and no ‘players’ coach anymore
the performance enhancing drugs argument begins with lassic eye surgery
hmmm
well this sucks. all the secrecy so they can be d!cks??? come on now. and from pioli as well. i mean yeah you dont have to be a players coach/gm but you should talk to the players right? appears we have two HUGE egos leading KC. ugh this is why i hate parcells. overbloated self worth. blah.
WTF
I don’t know if you can blame it on Haley or Pioli either one. I mean for one its not like they just got back from the combine and aren’t getting ready for free agency. What was Waters thinking. Hey they’re not busy. I’m gonna go ask them to lay out the plan to see if I want on board, or if I just want to start shit and try to find a way out of here cause I’m tired of losing and don’t want to deal with these guys cause some guys from Arizona told me they don’t like Haley.
KC Tat Guy
I agree completely.
Terrible timing on Waters part. On such a busy day, evening, just before free agancy, when Haley and Pioli are probably analyising numerous plans, probably haven’t had much sleep, supposedly Waters flys in without any type of scheduled appointment and says, I want you guys to drop everything and fill me in on everything that is happening and going on. BS, who would expect Haley and Pioli to just drop everything……..and how would a Belichick re-act in the same situation? He’d, no doubt, would be considered arrogant too. To me, this sounds to me that Waters is completely OUT OF LINE.
I was thinkin...
almost the same thing, or maybe it didnt even go down like that and Waters doesn’t wanna look like the bad guy askin for a trade. So he blames management and now he looks like a victim.
by ComeSackMyQB on Feb 27, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
It has to be deeper than that kc
waters is a class guy the guy has united way commercials for christ sakes. Something really shook him up
And we don’t know exactly how he was approached either. Waters wasn’t probably his happy go lucky self either, if he flew into KC and was walikin around Arrowhead lookin for the coach. I’m just guessing but I mean whats up with that. Plus the story seems a little one sided.
KC Tat Guy
Wouldn't be surprised
The Star hasn’t had a good relationship with the Chiefs for a while. Pioli’s secrecy probably isn’t helping things.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
That’s what I was thinking. The story seems like just that…a “story.” Give us some facts. Maybe Guppy was the source.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
Has anyone considered the validity of the article?
I am eager to see how this unfolds. Not wanting to step on any toes, but I can’t stand Jason Whitlock and I really trust anything he writes. When I hear Brian Waters say that’s what happened, I’ll believe it. It kinda seems to me that Whitlock likes to stir people up. This might just be one of those times. He had to know there would be high traffic at this time tonight.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:51 AM CST reply actions
He's citing a source
So I believe him. Plus, multiple editors at the Star likely signed off on this.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
Wishful thinking :)
It’s just weird. I thought Haley was respected by veterans and disliked by prima donna type players. Kurt Warner seemed to have alot of respect for him. Plus, he even gave LJ a clean slate! I guess I’m just curious as to the rest of the story. Doesn’t seem right.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:59 AM CST up reply actions
But even kurt warner the man of god
had crazy arguments with him i dont know this dont look good we can have a dc or a oc that everyone hates but not a head coach this is heart breaking but what can we expect we see this coming a mile away after that bolden side line out burst
I'll put it this way...
I get into arguments with people I respect all the time. My wife, my family, best friends. If I’m passionate about something and someone else is too, things will heat up, just like Haley-Warner, Haley-Boldin, etc. You have to be able to put that aside and work together. If a player can’t understand that, that’s there fault. This is a team and I’m rather have a team of good players no one ever hears about than a handful of Pro Bowlers always complaining.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
But in an ideal world...
I’ll take Pro Bowlers that don’t complain! :)
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
As a passionate person its up to YOU to control it
Everybody else shouldn’t have to put up with crazy crap coming out of your mouth just because you’re “passionate”.
Haley is COMPLETELY unproven. He was an OC for two years under an offensive minded head coach. He’s a rookie head coach that hasn’t coached his first game yet. He needs to be governing what comes out of his mouth and not making waves until he has some credibility with his players.
To Brian Waters this guy is the NFL version of the boss’s 25 year old son coming in and trying to run the joint. The only reason he got the job is because of his relationship to “the boss” Scott Pioli.
Really upsetting!
Not the kind of start or news the Chiefs kingdom needs right now. And besides, Were talking about one of the NFL’s man of the year. WTF! They need to show some respect. Or Kansas citians need to march down to 1 Arrowhead Dr. and handle this! We must support our franchise players, before there is none left!
And the season ticket holders
are probably like fuck im saving my money
No tony no lj no waters no donnie edwards
every agent is like
Hey man you dont want to go to kc man they got a dousch bag coach. And everyone is leaving . But you know who is taking applications the dallas cowboys oh and some ass hole in oakland named al davis
The Cowboys and Raiders
two model approaches to success in the NFL, Might as well be Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey.
The team has won 6 out of the last 32 games....
What the hell does it matter what direction the team is going next season? It would be hard to get worse.
I’d like to hear the other side of this story, but we never will because Pioli won’t take this fight to the press.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Richmond Va.
and no,…never been. Went to Tampa Fl. this year for the Superbowl. took 4 hours just to get out of there!! Freakin crazy!!!
Oh well thats cool
Out here is awsome where i live we got disney land thats like 6 blocks away from me so i go all the time with my buddys and then Los angeles is like 20 min the beach is like 10 min away and the mountains are like 30 min away this is the place to be .
Here's the plan!
your west coast, I’m east,…We meet up in the middle this year and go to a Chiefs game!! Oakland would be perferred! you opk with that!?
You need to get here i need to get their
i would kill to go to a chief home game my dream is to go to a game i need to go this year for sure we sucked so bad this year i was like im not going to waste my money to go see us get blown out .
I was down there this past weekend
for Disneyland. down from the valley. Man, I know its for kids, but I love disneyland.
disneyland
is awsome its for kids but brings you back takes you away from life for a bit so its all good
I never been their
its in san diego right . i hate san diego i hate the people sorry if you guys know anyone their just hate the vibe they just try to be oc i dont know its weird their everyone wears cargo shorts sounds weird but really true
Its not really the people of san diego
its the charger fans they blow ballls they are the biggest pussies
Yeah.
My brother in law is a Chiefs fan and he is stationed out there. His family and kids all went to Sea World wearing Chiefs jerseys. It was priceless.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
ya its funny
those fans they try to act hard but their is no such thing as a charger fan in my books they are pussies trust me
I live in Florida now.
But when I did live here there some cool clubs and bars to go to.
the Power and Light District is pretty cool. They are just like anywhere else I guess. I am married and have a six year old so it is tough planning the weekends now a days.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
It is about 5 miles from the stadiun
Power and Light is downtown next to the Sprint Arena. The new stadium they built to attract an NBA or NHL team.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
Power and Light isn't huge but they are adding on to it
It is the nicer club and bar area in KC it is pretty new.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
We should get a bunch of people from the sight
to go to the game that they celebrate DT
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
Well I need to get to bed
We will have to get some fans together and go to that game. I miss it. I had season tickets before I moved to Pensacola.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
i just want to eat kc ribs
thats all i want everyone says they are the best i want taste and see whats up
well i got to hit the sheeets
hope all you guys have a good night fuck brian waters and fuck haley bunch of ass holes they will both probably be joining jon mcgraw bagging my groceries next year hahah jk hopefully everything works out night guys
I think its probably better without kids
plus they serve booze at california adventure and then there’s plenty of stuff to do at downtown disney. And the 2-day parkhopper is a steal right now with the economy in the tank.
I had a blast this weekend. Haven’t laughed that hard for a long time. My best friend and I took our gfs down there (and they’re best friends) so we had a great rapport and we were just cracking jokes on everything and everyone.
And I pwned everyone at Astro Blasters.
Nah
Wanted to, but the line was ridiculous by the time I got around to it late sunday. But I’m already planning my next trip. Shit, might as well invest in the season pass soon.
Agoura
Its just inland from Malibu on the Ventura County and Los Angeles County border. I work in downtown L.A. though. bitch of a commute.
phhh ya i was down their
in ventura at the ventura theater to see norma jean no one was their hell of a show that place is far
Yeah
fortunately I get to make my own hours and avoid peak commuting times. Either way, we’ll have to meet up at the ESPN zone for a chiefs game this season. The arrowheadpride boards have a bunch of SoCal residents. We should plan it for Raiders week.
Oh fer Fracks Sake!
This is so not the news I was hoping to hear tonight… Sigh… What’s happening? I thought things were on the up and up and my balloon, like the economic bubble, just got majorly popped!
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:13 AM CST reply actions
Ditto
Now I’m gonna cry myself to sleep :(
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 AM CST up reply actions
ya no shit
i was pumped nfl network actually gave us some love today and finally admitted maybe tyler thigpen is the qb
People around the league were saying it last year
Jaws really love this kid
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
I bet
that given the way the Chiefs and Pioli operate now when you check the Star tomorrow the article will be removed from the page and Brian Waters will be doing a press conference announcing how he wants to retire a Chief. All kidding aside I am sure this will get resolved without us even hearing about it.
Cuz at this rate
I’m not only going to head into my classroom tired but in a straight up pissy mood tomorrow and my 8th graders are gonna be like WTF happened to our teacher?
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
Then they'll know for sure
I’m in a bad freaking mood. :)
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
As fans we have had shit for to 4 years and this was the last straw.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
cmotter,..
as much as I would like to see it happen,….But you ,might as well change that “Mayyybee” to “Not”
Maybe
I really think this is all a big misunderstaning and it will be resolved.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
I have a hard time believing
Pioli would let this stuff happen. He has a good rep around the league.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
the coach is good, an up and comer like everyone wanted
Pioli is a top 5 executive in the business. We have great leadership and the players are not used to that. They’re used to poor leadership and excuses. And what happens when we are confronted with an unknown situation? Fight or flight response.
Waters went into an unknown situation and triggered a reponse, bewildered, he is growling like a bear who was transplanted to a new zoo, once he realizes his new caretakers are better than the last he will grow to appreciate them
Between the open thread, over flow and this
we put up nearly 1000 comments holy sh#t!
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
Haley said 22 guys off the street can win 2 games
and he’s gonna prove it.
You wanna walk Waters? Sorry, its called a contract. You’re stuck, and if you wanna make money when we’re done with you, you’ll keep giving your all.
Pioli knows what he's doing.
And so does Haley.
These guys get paid boatloads of $$$ to play a game. And LJ, Waters, Tony: all under contract. They’re not gonna tank and lose their value or legacies just because they’re feelings were hurt. They’ll get pissed and that anger will make them wanna prove something.
So Waters forgot what it was like to have a no-nonsense coach tell him the brutal mf-ing truth. Well, we don’t have Daddy Herm here anymore or Dicky-poo to cry with you.
Our team sucked the last two years… and badly. We’ve been the joke of the goddamned league for two seasons now. I’m fed up and I’m glad we have a coach and a GM who aren’t gonna play nice anymore.
Me too
I want ass kickers not kissers. Lets get fired up, with a chip on our shoulder and change this loser mentality that has permeated in Kc for far too long. Its a smog that blankets are team, I am glad we have finally called in the cleaners to rid us of this stench and freshen the place up.
Remember last year......
Tony G was pretty upset with Herm…………………..but he got over it.
If Haley said that he was stating a fact
The Chiefs did win two games last year with guys off the street, remember open tryouts? Last time that was done was with Vermeil in 1978. We signed Babin and Boiman and some of these other guys that no one had heard of, its like the Indians lineup in the movie Major League.
Pioli wouldn’t meet with him because the coach is the face of the franchise, the coach runs the team. If a player wants to talk to someone he talks with the coach, not the GM. And if anything thats shows the GM doesnt cross that line which if anything shows that Pioli doesnt have an ego.
And finally Waters, Gonzales, Johnson and whoever else wants to talk trash in public can pack their bags, consider them veteran leaders, but what kind of leaders are they? Leaders of losers thus far in their careers. Change is coming to Kc, I love it, those who don’t embrace it will be swept aside.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion than an army of lions led by a sheep."
-Alexander the Great.
Well, Waters and LJ are looking like sheep.
Haley and Pioli are looking like lions.
The plan for the future of the Chiefs organization
was to have Brian Waters to play guard for the next 5 seasons. Did he really fly up to KC for a get to know ya session 3 days before free agency started? He either wanted a new contract, or some input on Pioli & Haley’s personnel decisions. In which case they were justified in denying him a meeting. He gets paid to play football, leave the personnel decisions to the pros.
maybe he saw the 50 million under the cap and wanted to get a piece
then when Haley said dont think so your under contract, he tried to strong arm Haley and thats when Haley compared the Chiefs to pedestrians, to leave his office, and he’d see him at OTA’s, oh and by the way you’ll be competing with Albert @ startng LG so you may wanna save your energy
As much as I'd love Waters to stay and play...
It wouldn’t be the end of the world to trade him. I do it all the time on Madden :) He’s older, but he’s got good value!
Great!
I usually get two players 4-5 years younger with equal potential! haha Doubt that plays out in real life!
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:49 AM CST up reply actions
This is NOT the same Chiefs organization of a year ago
or 20 years ago. This is a totally new regime. Get used to it.
Waters is in the wrong
He should behave like a professional, honor his contract.
I blame Whitlock for this.
This is all for SHOW
I think our veterans feel, and maybe rightly so that they have had enough of this rebuilding. They are the few left along with a shit ton of new people. New players, coaches, its almost as if this is a new team to them. They have one thing on their mind, and its winning.
I can’t make judgment, because i know how i played and i hated to lose. Speaking as someone who was stuck on a shitty football team with players that never were consistantly putting out their all. IT really starts ti blow. On the other hand, I wasn’t under a multi-million dollar contract either
ESPN? Fox Sports?
Why am I not seeing anything about this on their sites? This seems like news worth reporting…
Waters
I think this is awesome! The years of the pet players running to the CEO are gone. The years of being pampered by your head coach are gone! These guys are spoiled little babies who have never won anything. I for one am happy to see a coach put his foot up Waters butt and tell him the way it is! I think Waters seems like a really good guy, but he has been on a pedestal here in KC for a few years now, same with Tony G and I think a dose of reality(as in WIN something and we will give you the respect you feel you have earned) is just what this team needs.
+1
Waters is experiencing a little culture shock going from Vermeil & Herm to hearing the truth about how far this team needs to go. And now you can’t run to the GM if you are mad at the coach.
I’ve always liked Waters and I still like him. He just needs to understand that things are different now. The culture is changing and it’s about the team winning, period.
by Offense of the 70s on Feb 27, 2009 7:20 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Football is a business. Running to the GM or trying to run to the owner won’t be allowed anymore.
How many Super Bowls have we won with the players running around like spoiled babies?
That's all well and good.
But, the fact remains that Haley and Pioli both came off as jackasses and one of our best, most consistent team players wants out.
There are three guys on this team that I’ve always considered consumate professionals who go out there and give there all for the team no matter what: Donnie Edwards, Tony G., and Brian Waters.
One of them got cut. The other two, apparently, want out. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, that’s not a good way to start off for a new regime.
I've Got No Problem With Edwards Getting Cut
He was pretty much done as an effective starter and he made too much money to warm the bench. Nothing against the guy, because I always liked him, but his inability to stay on the field was a large part of why the defense stunk.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Old guys think they run the place
Waters, Edwards and Tony are all old. I want TG and Waters to stay, but they need to understand that things are different now and they aren’t going to be making personnel decisions. They aren’t going to be able to tell the coach what they want the team to do and they aren’t going to be able to run and tell on the coach to the GM anymore.
As long as Waters is reasonable, this will blow over just like Gonzalez’s complaints in Hawaii blew over. Waters should’ve at least gone to camp with the new staff and let the new front office have one draft and one free agency signing period before running to the press to attack them. He has no idea what direction the team is going to go yet, so if he wants out already it’s only because his ample butt wasn’t kissed enough by the new coach. Too bad, he needs to deal with the new reality instead of running to the sportswriters to badmouth the new coach who he’s never even practiced with.
This whole article is spun from Waters side of things, and it’s an attempt from Whitlock to try to pressure the front office to give more stories to the sportswriters. It’s not going to work, Pioli has no interest in helping sportswriters write their stories easily. The media also needs to realize that things are different now.
What was the big crime alleged by Waters anyway? That Haley spoke the truth about how crappy the team was? That’s not a crime, that’s a fact. Waters sounds like someone who wanted to talk about getting a piece of all that salary cap room, and to tell the new coach how things should be. If that’s what he wanted, it’s no surprise that he didn’t get anywhere. He still should’ve kept quiet instead of trying to sabotage the new administration before they’ve even really started. Bad form from Waters, that’s not good veteran leadership, that’s putting his own interests ahead of everything else.
I still like the guy and I think if he thinks about it and is reasonable and stops running to the papers to whine, this will blow over soon.
by Offense of the 70s on Feb 27, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Which I'm inclined to believe
was released by Waters… so it’s probably not good.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
I'm all for winning . . .
. . . but I’m not all ABOUT winning. What you sacrifice to win had better not be more valuable than the winning itself.
Waters is a guy who gives respect and deserves respect. Doesn’t matter the circumstances, a HC who cares about his players doesn’t dress down a vet who has done nothing but bleed red and yellow.
Haley better not steal the “respected” part of our organization.
Thats nice
thats nice and all but this is the NFL, and the NFL is all about winning. Obivously the Chiefs had a lot of respect last year.
It's about time
we got a staff that has zero tolerance for bullsh#t! If the malcontents want out……fine. Get what we can for them and draft o-line baby. Players can drink the koolaid or go have a coke and a smile elewhere. This ain’t the love train.
Tim Tebow.....concrete cyanide. Thanks jg.
I said all I needed to last night, this is the last thing I have to say to Waters
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
I bet
Thiggys shaking his head now. I’m a fan of Pioli but not a fan of Haley. He’ll say something to the wrong player and get his SHit pushed back.
I figured this might happen with Haley
Doesn’t seem like a great player’s coach. I don’t know if I’m wild about him yet. Especially after what happened with Anquan Boldin on the sidelines. I’m more of a Vermeil personality liker.
A new GM, a new coach, a new year. A new sense of hope and pride.
Are you talking about the same situation
where the Cardinals were driving on potentially there season ending drive and Boldin was being an individual complaining that he wasnt getting the ball and Haley told him to get away in essence that he had more important things to do like winninig the game instead of pampering to the player’s ego?
Sometimes in life, like being on a team for instance, you put individual stats and concerns aside because its the team’s success that is ultimately important.
Haley made the right call there and the right call with Waters.
22 players off the street could win two games
I vaguely recall a situation where players off the street did more than just win 2 games. I recall watching a documentary about the player strike back int he 80s where a team of replacements did rather well.
Blame my wife!
and the cheerleaders rocked also!
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Good Comments
I’m sure glad to see most of you guys supportive of the coach. It’s about time KC had a “no-nonsence” coach. How would this go down if Waters was approaching a Parcells or Belichick? Just think about it…….there’s a couple of new sherrif’s in town.
No Big
I agree 22 guys off the street could win 2 games. The team was wretched and incompetent beyond belief. I like and respect Waters. He has a contract and he isn’t going anywhere, suck it up. Your feelings hurt, get a box of chocolates and some flowers.Hell when Mike Tomlin took over a good team he told them it’s “my way or the highway” so how much more so here? Haley may be a prick, so what. Can he coach? That is all I care about.
and Haley and Pioli are making their statements about what players can expect
So what’s the difference?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Right now, the leaders are leading, the followers are following, and the player under contract need to get out of the way so good things can happen.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
Well Waters
Is the #1 leader on the team, and they just told him to get out of the way.
Sorry, but a mistake. You need players as leaders too, anyone thats played the game knows that.
The other downside is, I promise his teammates respect Waters more than they do Haley right now, so this is bad on about 50 different levels.
AGAIN, I’m not saying Waters is without blame, but I wish it was handled more professionally on both sides.
What system?
Tomlin came to the Steelers from the Vikings and they had no idea what to expect, in fact the vets were a stunned a young guy would walk in and lay the law down.
22 guys off the street can win 2 games....
That’s the kind of thing you say to the younger kids, not a seasoned vet whose played in multiple pro bowls and has proven himself. I would be pissed too if I knew I have been doing more than my job requires and still be treated like dirt. You can’t rebuild a team without a good amount of veteran leaders. A bunch of rookies running around on the field won’t win many games. And our new head coach isn’t shy about driving away our two best players TG and Waters. That is just plain stupid.
I love Brian Waters...
…and everything he’s done for the Chiefs. But I’m not going to feel sorry for someone on the team who still wants to play “Herman-Ball.” There’s a reason we got rid of that attitude here from the ground up.
22 Guys off the Street ...
Yeah, you’re right, guys. Maybe 22 guys off of the street could win two games (unless, you know, they’re 22 guys like the Detroit Lions).
And, I’ll admit, my coaching experience is pretty much limited to little league football. But, even I know that you don’t win and you don’t build a winning team by pissing off your best players.
Waters was one of the few guys on the team who wasn’t entirely pedestrian last season. The guys on the other side of the offensive line? Sure, pretty much anyone could’ve walked on and done what they did.
You don’t make it to the Pro Bowl being a guy off of the street, and you damn sure don’t do it when your team’s only won two games.
You keep pissing off your rock-solid, anything-for-the-team guys like Brian Waters — one of only a handful of truly elite players on your team — and you’re going to find out if you really can win two games with a bunch of guys off of the street because those are the only guys who you’ll be able to find to play for you.
The problem is, we’re trying to win more than two games. If I recall, we brought Haley here to make sure we do that. This ain’t a good way to start.
THE REVENGE OF THE STAR
The Star has had enough, they have grown accustomed to a RUN YOUR MOUTH GM that ran to the media with any and ALL INFO that he thought would give him his 10 seconds in FAME~
They are not use to a GM saying, ITS NONE OF YA BUSINESS, report on the players and anything else ya want to, but you wont get it from ME! THUS MAKING IT a NON TOPIC, THUS giving you NO SOURCE, THUS you MAKING UP SUCH * SAID SOURCE *
I HAVE A FEELING THE SOURCE and I hate to say it is and was:
THE HAMBURGLAR from MC D’s told WHITLOCK as he ate his 10 MC DOUBLE CHESSE’s
LMAO
or maybe it was GRIMACE, he hates the chiefs!
Ol' Kansan' Chief
Stop Crying
Almost everybody on this site wanted Pioli/Haley. Now everybody is crying that Haley hurt B dubs feelings. Fuck that. How many games did Waters help us win? 2!!! Its not like Haley is coming in here and pissing off a championship caliber squad. Lets get real guys. The chiefs are bottom feeders! We just went through 3 years of a players coach coddling the players. Maybe this is what we need. Piss these guys off and maybe the will play harder!
How many games do we win without Waters? How many quarterbacks do we go through in a season?
The Chiefs aren’t a championship-calibre squad. You’re right about that. But, you don’t build a championship-calibre squad by making your championship-calibre players walk. And, that’s what Haley’s doing.
(And, for the record, I didn’t want Haley. I’ve always thought he seemed like an ass. Turns out, I’m right.)
How many quaterbacks
did we go through with Waters last season?
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Which side?
Which side did the defenders that took out Brodie and Damon come through?
How many sacks did Waters and Albert give up compared to the rest of the line?
This is a team
there is no I in team. The team sucked as a whole and that was what Haley was talking about. I highly doubt Haley said “Waters, you suck.” Im sure it was more along the lines of the whole team sucks.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
If You're Saying That All Members Of The Team Are Equally To Blame For The 2-14 Season
That may be standard coaching rhetoric and it may work in the locker room, but it’s simply not true. Guys like LJ (attitude), McIntosh (suckiness) and Donnie Edwards (injury) had a lot more to do with the failures of the 2008 Chiefs than a guy who showed up every day and performed at a Pro Bowl level. If Haley wants to insult LJ in a hallway, I probably wouldn’t bat an eye because the guy’s…well, he’s a bitchy little prima donna who needs to be told to shut the hell up. But Waters hasn’t earned that kind of treatment with his performance. He hasn’t earned the right to dictate terms to the coach and GM, of course, but he still merits a bit more respect than the scrubs and non-hackers.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
yup
Its a matter of respect. Waters has earned his respect.
And this was a guy that came from nothing, remember. He built himself up from an undrafted FA from a small school to a probowler…this isn’t one of these superstar athletes coddled since he was in junior HS.
He also isn’t to blame for going 2-14, just like Calvin Johnson isn’t to blame for the Lions going 0-16.
In football, it takes LOTS of good players to win.
How
did Haley insult Waters? By saying a team of guys off the street could win 2 games? Im sorry if that offended Waters but its the truth. I hate when a player thinks he is above the rest of the team. The Chiefs suck. Get over it Waters.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
It's not the truth.
You want a team of guys off the street? There’s a bunch of them at Division II NCAA schools.
You think any of those college teams could’ve even managed to beat the Lions last year? Not likely.
Waters didn't deserve that.
There was a whole lot of suck on this team last year.
Waters wasn’t part of it.
He is 1/53 on the team
guilt by association, he was part of the suck, and since you continually state he is a leader, then I continue your logic with Waters was leader of the suck
Yea you
wanted to keep Herm if i remember correctly.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Yep.
And, I’d still rather have him over Haley.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t replace Herm. You should. But Haley wasn’t the guy to do it.
Just like you bring in competition for Thigpen to make him earn the job and push him to be better. But you don’t do it by wasting the third pick in the draft on Sanchez or Stafford. You wait until next year and pick up Tebow, or McCoy, or Bradford who are all superior to any of the QBs in the Draft this year.
Dude
You make it so difficult to take your side when you say stuff like that. :)
Herm sucked, and even if Haley turns out to suck it doesn’t mean Herm was suddenly a good coach. He deserved to be fired and I for one am glad he’s not here. Even if Haley turns out to be worse than him (because it still doesn’t make Herm any better).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I'm not saying it makes Herm better.
There were a lot of guys out there who could’ve replaced Herm. There will be a few more next year who would’ve been better candidates than any of the guys that were options this year (Cowher among them).
I’m saying you replace Herm with a better coach. You don’t replace him just for the sake of replacing him with a coach that a) has a history of alienating players and b) has no experience actually doing the job and c) may’ve gotten hired just because he’s a friend of yours.
Good Points
On the subject of Haley, it’s important to remember though that every great coach in the NFL at one point started out unproven. Haley might be worse than Herm, or he might be better…we just don’t know yet, because he had no track record. Shanahan might have been a championship coach here (I liked the idea of hiring him…although it appears that was never close to being a reality) or maybe he’d just be mediocre. Cowher might have been great here, or he might have flamed out like Jimmy Johnson did in Miami after taking too much time off. It was smart to get rid of Herm because Herm had pretty clearly demonstrated he wasn’t going to take this team to a championship. But while I’m not thrilled with how Haley’s handling the job so far, it’s also important to keep in mind that we have no idea what he can do because he’s yet to coach his first game.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
You lose
all credibility with me with statements like that JacinB.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
No offense, but ...
… If credibility with you were something I was interested in earning, I’d be concerned. I’m not, so I don’t care.
Look at that. I just Haley’d you. Like it much?
Doesnt bother me
im not a little whiner like you and Waters.
You just got paratrooper’d.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
I guess we could go back
to the day of coddling the players. Obviously thats what you want but i would like to see the Chiefs win more than 2 games next season.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Black and White
For some reason everyone wants to see things like this black and white, when its actually grey.
Look, I wanted and still want Pioli, but that doesn’t mean that he’s not going to make mistakes. I hope he learns from this mistake, b/c thats exactly what it was.
If I had to pick between Pioli and Waters, I’d rather have Pioli, but it doesn’t work like that.
We need MORE players like Waters, not less, and if Pioli could have diffused this situation by talking with him for a few minutes, he should have.
paratrooper
im on your side on this one its time for the players to ship up or ship out im ready to make moves if brian wants out lets get some draft picks
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
God i love your name
it classy… like me!
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Business as Usual Has Changed
Better get used to this. There was a strong message sent to the entire roster. If Pioli and Haley are unwilling to be bend over backwards to stroke Brian Waters, then no one else better even dream of trying to throw thier weight around.
Pioli and Haley do not care who you are. The individual is not more important than the team. We have guys who are used to being coddled and allowed to disrupt. That has come to a screeching halt. You get paid a lot of money to play, not coach, so put your head down and play. Being the best lineman on a bad line buys you nothing with this regime.
This is gonna be fun to watch.
by Spruce on Feb 27, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good Point...the guard has changed (pun intended)
Being the best Chiefs O-lineman is like being Valedictorian at Retard Camp…
Pioli just said “FA just started, i’m still going over combine numbers, and i’m trying to hire another coach. I really don’t have time for B Waters to come in and tell me about MY OWN TEAM. So Brain, quit crying, get those other OL guys together and go practice some kick-slides or hit the sled or something…”
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Parcells had a similar incident with Jason Taylor.
That ended with Taylor being shipped out of Miami but with the Dolphins winning their division. Get used to this folks, no player is going to be above the teams. Chiefs fans will have to stop being nostalgic about players. Unless they want Peterson back, who consistently rewarded players with big contracts for past performance.
What A Dumbass
This is not how you start out as a coach. What kind of signal does it send to the young guys on the roster that the most respected vets are wanting out of the situation? I understand coming in with your own philosophy and all, but come the F on! Alienating your most loyal vet (Waters) speaks volumes about our new coach. Obviously Boldin didn’t like him in Arizona and now we hear Warner and Fitzgerald didn’t have anything nice to say at the pro bowl either? This dude better do something impressive once the season starts b/c his first off-season aint winning over his current roster of players. I know its early but he is looking like a complete dumbass right now.
BS
Fitzgerald said Haley made him into the receiver he is today, Warner said that he and Haley are both ultra competive and that Haley is an awesome coach. Those quotes were not attributed to Warner and Fitzgerald
Were there a lot of other Cardinals at the Pro Bowl?
The guys who were talking about Haley played for him. That suggests they played offense.
The only Cards that went on offense were Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.
The ‘source’ said that there were mulitple Cardinals that said these things about Haley. So, that means it was more than just Boldin, who we already know Haley’s had ‘issues’ with.
Yeah, I guess Adrian Wilson (Safety) and Sean Morey (Special Teamer) could’ve been in the discussion, but the article sure doesn’t sound that way.
One other thing,
If I were Scott Pioli, after I talked with my head coach and then snubbed Waters’ request for a meeting, I would call Whitlock and throw him a bone. What good does it do to make an example of someone if no one else knows about it. I wouldn’t be so quick to say Waters was the leak.
Who is Whitlock's "source?"
Is it Waters himself? I think we all know how reliable unnamed sources are (cough — Chris Mortonsen — cough). And if this is all true, Waters tried to go over Pioli’s head and talk to Clark about it? If any/all of this is true it sounds worse for Waters than for Pioli and Haley. Is it too late for Waters to get on Dancing with the Stars?
In all fairness, could the conversation have gone down like this?
Haley to assistant: "And tell Mr. so and so I will return his call in a few minutes, I have to go down the hall and return this message to Ray Farmer."
As Haley walks down the hallway, he sees Brian Waters and says, "Brian how are you?"
BW: "I’m doing ok, listen I’d like to talk to you and Scott about the direction of the team"
TH: "Well I am tore up busy right now, can we do it later?"
BW: "I just flew into town to talk with you guys and we need to try and do it now"
TH: "Really I’d like to, we just got in from the combine and we are trying to get on top of the free agency things at the moment and I think Scott is handling several calls to other GM’s, this really needs to wait Brian"
BW: "Well, I think you should take a few minutes and sit down with me and talk about it, those things can wait."
TH: "Brian, I really want to talk with you, but I just can’t right now"
BW: "Why can’t you talk with me, I mean I flew up here on my own and you at least owe me that."
TH: "Seriously Brian, why do I owe you that, just because you’re a veteran? Because you have been here for nine losing years? What have you guys done the last two years, win what 6 games? 6 games are you kidding me? I could get 22 players off the street to win two games in one season. Come on man, lets sit down next week or so and we will talk, just call ahead next time and we will schedule something."
BW: "I’ll tell you what, just trade me or release me I’m done with this team"
Why do we automatically assume Haley was the jerk and poor Brian Waters who “has Character” wasn’t being an ass and trying to bully his way into a meeting?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
I'll admit that this is possible
How come you can’t admit it could have gone down the way the Star article portays it?
Why all this F8ck you Waters stuff, when he’s been the standup leader of this team, and Haley’s been here a month?
Most likely, they probably both are partially to blame, I just can’t believe everyone turned on Waters that quick.
It wasn't just the hallway meeting.
Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversationsconfirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate …
There were follow-up conversations.
Not just one follow-up conversation, but plural follow-up conversations.
So, Haley blew it in the first meeting and then continued to not make things right in subsequent meetings, culminating in one of the only guys on the team that you could really count on to ask to be traded — at which point Haley apparently blasted him again and told him to eat the #### Haley was feeding him and like it.
I would suggest Waters give Jason Taylor a call.
He could ask Jason how much fun it must have been to watch the Dolphins in the playoffs. I’m sure Taylor can afford a top of the line plasma screen.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Uh huh.
You really think the Chiefs are going to pull a Dolphins-like turnaround? Really?
I’m generally an optimist. I certainly hope that happens. But, I’ve seen absolutely nothing out of Arrowhead since the end of last season that makes me think it will.
Got To Agree
Maybe Pendergast and Gibbs ain’t Todd Bowles. Haley might be a capable coach, but very few of the new guys he’s brought in make me think this coaching staff’s going to be anything special. The only move I loved was the retention of Gailey, and even then Gailey sounded less than ecstatic about the situation here, which led me to believe the only reason he didn’t depart was because the team wouldn’t let him leave.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Did you think the Dolphins were going to make a Dolphins-like turnaround?
Nobody did. The Dolphins were even worse than the 2008 Chiefs. The NFL is designed for teams to rebound quickly.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
When Management Makes Smart Decisions
Jury’s still out on how smart any of Pioli’s and Haley’s decisions are (since they’ve yet to win a single game). Plenty of teams go in the toilet in the NFL and stay in the toilet for a long time because they compound the mistakes their predecessors make (Cardinals, Rams, Lions).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
yes i believe now more than ever
that the chiefs will pull an epic turn aorund and be kicking ass for years to come
Listen
I almost never agree with Whitlock’s opinions, but this wasn’t a column.
This was spoon fed to him, likely from Waters himself. He tried to let the Chiefs respond, but they don’t talk to the media, fine…
SO, you have Whitlock, or don’t trust him, or whatever, why the F*CK YOU Waters stuff??
Whitlock sucks
In addition to going with this a news with only one source, Whitlock also uses guilt by association with here with Boldin, Warner and Fitzgerald, implying that one if not all of them bad-mouthed Haley to Waters. (He names them as 3 Arizona players who were at the Pro Bowl.) None of any of this is corroborated by anybody. And yet the Star runs with it and readers get their panties in a bunch about it, when it may or may not even be accurate.
Fitzegerald has been spoken about how Haley helped take his game to another level.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeffri&id=3842683
Its hard to get two sides to a story
When one side won’t comment.
Assuming the source was Waters, ANY news org in the country would have run this story.
And yes, Whitlock mostly sucks, I agree…again, just b/c we don’t like the guy, doesn’t mean he’s incapable of putting out a very valid story.
If it's true that Waters fed this to Whitlock....
Then I say a major f*ck you to Waters. He would be clearly undermining the organization, trying to poison the locker room because he felt that he wasn’t coddled enough by Pioli and Haley.
He went to the Pro Bowl
On a 2-14 team. That really doesn’t say much and if I was Waters, I would be a bit disgraced joining players that produced on winning teams. Haley is right—Rockhurst HS could have posted a better record. No matter how good Waters is, he is 1 player there are 20 more (TG is good too) who played like crap. Waters needs to get out of being an individual and start acting like a teammate and learn that it takes more effort that those of one player to win. I would be pissed too if I was Haley. Pioli doesn’t need to open his door to anyone—he is the GM, not the coach.
Maybe this will light a fire in some people to produce
No probably not. The players feel they are “entitled” to come and go as they please—talk to whoever they want whenever they want and have zero discipline and work ethic. I am a 12 year veteran I don’t need to come to practice—you’re right the opposing team will cut you some slack and your body will automatically get in shape because you’ve done it for 12 years. Individuals are great for charity work, but suck when it comes to team sports. Pioli is starting the right way in BUILDING A TEAM. Haley is living up to his name—not taking shit from anyone.
The Herm factor
These guys loved him so much that when his job was hanging by a thread they laid down like dogs especially in the Bengal game. The NFL is a job, a well paying one in a troubled to say the least economy. I will never begrudge a player any money they make but at the same time you have a job and you have an employer and they are not obligated to change your pampers or nurse your tender feelings. Or consult you.
And Whitlock is a dick and a snake. The Star is pissed they are shutout so this is what they will resort to. Oh well. Waters will show up and play or I’d fine is ass to the moon. I am happy there is finally a level of being accountable.
I don't even want to read the rest of this tread....
to any of you so called faithful Chiefs fan who are siding with Haley, get a clue
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 PM CST reply actions
I remember a movie
where people didn’t agree with the system, and the coach came off as a jerk. Then, that team became a bunch of close kick-ass TEAM players that won a championship. Does “Remember the Titans” ring any bells to you?
I hate that movie.
It’s based on a true story and yet not a single believable thing happens during the whole movie. The worst part is the 7 year old girl who knows more about football than Vince Lombardi. Just horrible.
As One Pundit (I Think It Was Bill Simmons) Said Of The Girl In that Movie
She’s only that obsessive about football because it’s the only way she can get her dad to notice her…in ten years she’ll be sleeping with all of the football players on the team to get back at him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I think just like TG
this guy should shut the fuck up and concentrate on football. He has no idea what’s in store for next season. He has no idea what the management and coaching people are doing. He should enjoy his time off and be ready to come back next season and kick some ass. I don’t think anyone at arrowhead has time to rub the player’s bellies or powder their butts right now because they have a shit-ton of work to do to assemble a complete staff, roster and plan for next year.
Vae Victis!
Pioli and Haley? More of same -- Only Worse
This is pure ignorant arrogance on the part of Pioli and Haley to treat Waters this way.
Waters is one of the best Chiefs on the current roster. What possible advantage could be gained by treating a locker-room leader, who is a model citizen, in such a way?
Pioli and Haley haven’t accomplished anything yet. This isn’t Parcells or Belichek we’re talking about. What has Haley ever won on his own? He’s a golf coach. They’re a rookie tandem that already has more arrogance than King Carl.
Wasn’t one of the major criticisms of King Carl the way he treated the players? His arrogance? His refusal to admit a mistake?
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt but with this kind of arrogance I think Pioli and Haley are going to crash and burn. It’ll be the like the Frank Gansz years all over.
I’ll be happy to be wrong but I don’t think we’ll be seeing any kind of success with this leadership.
by Raisethefencesbackto12feet on Feb 28, 2009 10:20 AM CST reply actions
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