Chiefs' Brian Waters Asks to be Moved; Offended by Haley's "Arrogance"
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:19 AM CST
350 comments
Kansas City Chiefs all pro guard Brian Waters has asked the team to release or trade him according to the Kansas City Star.
Waters met with new head coach Todd Haley but GM Scott Pioli wasn't interested in meeting with the 9 year veteran.
Per the Star:
Waters, according to the source, was offended and shocked by the arrogance of Haley and Pioli. Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversations confirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley that he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate, according to the source.
The Star's sources also say that the rumor that veteran players don't get along with Todd Haley is true.
The Cardinals players told Waters and tight end Tony Gonzalez that Haley, Arizona’s offensive coordinator, was aloof, condescending and ignored by veterans, the source said.
After the snub by Pioli, Waters asked Haley to be released or traded.
The source said when Waters informed Haley of his desire to relocate, Kansas City’s coach scolded Waters and indicated that the Chiefs would not release Waters from his contract.
Waters told Haley that the differences between them were "irreconcilible".
Pioli and Haley are getting off to a rough start with their tenure in Kansas City. Disgruntled running back Larry Johnson has already gone wacko and asked for his release. But he's done it in such a way that any trade value he had is quickly diminishing.
When Waters flew to Kansas City to meet with Haley, the new head coach reportedly told him "22 players off the street could win two games." On the one hand, I'm glad that Haley understands the ineptitude of the 2008 Chiefs. On the other hand, is this the proper approach when it comes to retaining one of the team's best players on an underachieving offensive line?
The news that Brian Waters wants out is shocking. He's been the consummate pro who has always supported the team and been considered one of the biggest positives in the Kansas City locker room.
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At least there's
some Chiefs news tonight… although not what I was hoping for.
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
by Jason Shore on Feb 27, 2009 12:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
soorrry i need caps for this
F@#$$$#####%%CCCCK
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
no problem brosef
this is the storming stage of team building, it happens in all teams, psychological fact, this is the stage where conflict is highest because the individuals are sorting out what roles they will fufill on the team.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, Storming...
That makes me remember my management classes..storming, norming, conforming i think is the order.
Jokes aside, its a good point. Haley and Pioli are establishing themselves as Alpha Dogs, i wish it hadn’t been done so publically and with Waters but you knew something like this was bound to happen. This is progress, the organization is changing, Waters is partly upset because he probably has no clout in the organization anymore. I think things will clear up and the Chiefs will be better off.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on Feb 27, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope So
And you may be right that Waters’ frustration is also in his loss of influence.
Hadn’t seen you around for awhile. :)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Classes and football dominate my life UC
But i’ll start making time for all of you…haha.
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on Feb 27, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aw Shit
I figured there would be feathers ruffled in KC. Waters was the last one I thought would be the one getting upset, though. What the hell is going on with the Chiefs?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
If it’s the culture shock of moving from Herm to Haley or if Haley really is that big of a you know what.
Although, why would Pioli deny a meeting with Waters? I don’t get it. What’s with the whose is bigger approach to one of your best players?
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According To The Star
And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said.
If that’s true, I think I can understand why Waters is pissed. If my new boss opened up his first conversation with my by insulting my performance after I’d busted my ass and done my job, I’d probably write him off as an asshole too.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and he made the Pro Bowl too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On The Plus Side
If they decide to trade Waters, it’s not the worst time to do so because he’s coming off a Pro Bowl year and he still has a few more seasons in him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then decide to trade him and do it
Him saying he wants out of KC does nothing but diminish his value.
No reason alienate players. That doesn’t help his value.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't believe that it all went down the way it is written
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ya especially
a guy that just walked out the super bowl damn
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Pioli
I’m assuming that he turned down the meeting because he was backing his coach…which is understandable. He doesn’t want the players doing the same thing to Haley that they did to all the other coaches…run to the GM if they’re unhappy and get him to undermine the coach.
On the other hand, if the coach is being unreasonable, then the GM probably needs to have a word.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just question the timing of all this
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You and me both, UC. After reading the article, I don't know who to believe.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Had A First Sergeant Once Who Treated People Like That
He was an extremely insecure person, so he’d humiliate his NCOs in front of other people to try and break them down so they wouldn’t talk back. It’s a shitty leadership move…usually it only causes resentment and hatred towards the leader. If that’s how Haley’s running things, there are going to be problems.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well haley has a proven track record
that he cannot deal with elite players T O and bolden and he was just coaching offense now he has the entire team in his hands not good . And I dont blame him for not putting up with T O who can but he has a history and now its starting with waters
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
T.O. Anyone Gets A Pass On
Nobody can deal with that guy for long, and Haley’s right about him…whatever team he’s on will never win a championship. Waters, however, is a guy who he shouldn’t have problems getting along with because a) the guy has always emphasized how much he wanted to be here, and b) he’s produced.
Seriously, Belichick can get away with being an asshole because he’s actually produced something in his career as a head coach. Haley, on the other hand, hasn’t produced anything as a head coach yet. Well, if he’s getting into pissing contests with his players, he’d better start soon.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bellichick
Doesn’t get a pass on being an asshole because he’s produced.
He’d produced because he’s been an asshole.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In one aspect I understand where Waters is comming from. But there is a time and a place. He happened to pick a bad time to start this.
KC Tat Guy
by KC Tat Guy on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya good timing for waters bad timing for coaches
But either way im sure more news will be coming soon maybe they just need time to cool off
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I understand this was a one on one conversation
doesn’t sound to me that Haley was taking his legs out from him in front of others, maybe just giving him a tall glass of truth koolaid that didnt go down so well with the big fella, one way or another though all the players are gonna have to drink the koolaid
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If It Was In A Hallway
It’s not a one-on-one conversation.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right,
but who at Arrowhead has leaked any information about the goings-on? No one who wants to stay employed…
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
by IISaiNtII on Feb 27, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waters, Apparently
All I’m saying is, if you’re a smart boss having a one-on-one conversation with an employee that you respect and who’s produced for you, that conversation is held in an office, often behind closed doors.
If you’re an asshole who lacks people skills and doesn’t have any respect for your employees, that conversation takes place in a hallway (where people may or may not be walking by) where you insult the guy. Productive employees with any level of pride don’t respond well to bosses who insult and degrade them the first time they talk to them…in fact, usually it’s the impetus for that employee to stop being so productive and to start looking for other jobs.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This was my point last night
On the FA overthrow thread. I was amazed how pretty much the entire thread instantly turned on Waters.
Hey, I like the Pioli hire, too…but that doesn’t mean the guy isn’t going to make mistakes.
Waters went to KC looking to be shown respect, and he was told to f8ck off…thats not the way you handle one of your most important employees, especially one that probably enjoyed a completely open door with his previous boss.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a case of he said/she said
I don’t know who to believe anymore. All I know is that we don’t need drama that’s going to escalate ESPECIALLY right in the middle of FA.
This could’ve been handled better by both sides.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Feb 27, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
I’m not saying Waters is without blame
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And He May Be To Blame
Chris is right in that there was an air of entitlement around KC that needs to change. But Waters seems to be one of those guys who’d be one of the easier ones to win over, and he’s been productive enough that it’s worth the effort to do so.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my main points
Was that Waters has been a completely standup guy. The consumate professional that would sit there and take ALL the media questions after losses the last two years. I don’t know how anyone, up until last night could have questioned his character, in fact, I think if you ran a poll yesterday on this website, asking who the most respected leader on the Chiefs was, he’d have won with 60+%
And then to have people instantly turn on him, and not believe his story, and instead instanly back the new secretive GM thats been here 2 months, I was pretty shocked.
He could have handled it better, and I wished he could have taken a couple of days to calm down, and then try and talk to Pioli again…but I mean, when your boss tells you he has no interest in talking to you, its a slap in the face, I don’t have the money, ego, or importance of a position in my company that Waters has, but if I asked to talk to my boss and he told me he had no interest…I’d start looking for another gig tomorrow.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I don’t personally know any of the people involved, but I can say that Waters has a long history of being a standout player and member of the community. I’d go to bat for him over the new hermits any day.
by Chiefs4Life on Feb 27, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not So Much A Case Of He Said/She Said
As he said/I’m not saying anything because fans aren’t worth giving information to.
This is what’s going to happen a lot because of the absolute secrecy policy. Only one side of the story is going to get out when there are problems and the fans are going to eventually going to turn on the guys who refuse to talk to them (unless they’re highly successful quickly) because they’re going to assume it’s the one who’s being secretive who’s the real problem.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it'll get out
If it’s important enough, the brass will leak it. I don’t see Haley as being the type to keep his mouth shut. Given his track record on the sidelines, there will be birdies that’ll have the info out.
Either that or there’s going to be a Buddy Ryan scenarop on the sideline during a game. (I think I’m dating myself)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Feb 27, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
scenario...not scenarop
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
by THE_TRUTH on Feb 27, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
that he should of pulled him aside and behind close doors to talk to him. But come one, we went 2-14. The team sucked last year. Just because Waters went to the Pro Bowl doesnt mean we didnt suck. He is a part of the team. Sounds to me like Waters pride was hurt a little bit.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, The Team Went 2-14
But the question to ask is “Is Brian Waters part of the reason the team went 2-14?” or is Waters the exception? Personally, I think that Waters and Gonzalez are the exceptions, where as guys like Larry Johnson were part of the cause. Waters did about all he could do to make this team a winner.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Its silly to think that b/c Waters was a player on this team, he should have that thrown at him, like he’s worthless. Football, more than most sports is a game which requires LOTS of talented players.
I could care less he went to the probowl, LJ’s been there too, I’m fine with him leaving.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
haley is challenging waters to take a bigger step and be a vocal leader of the team and putting the blame on him.
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is going on
when you think you know someone . Its Feb and we have three elite players want to bounce we havent even got to the draft yet and haley is already pissing people off
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
and we need a DC too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
our team was terrible last year and we actually getting worse. If LJ wants to leave, good riddance. But Tony G and Waters? Those guys are what I think of when I think about players I want on the team. Plus we let our d backs coach go and hired a bunch of Haley’s friends with track records of putting together crappy defenses. All I can say is that Haley and Pioli will get a short rope, they had better win right away. I will only except our team being seen as assholes and pricks if we win. Even then, I will be a little ashamed.
by Chiefs4Life on Feb 27, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damned
If Waters’ leaves, will that be the final straw for TG?
by KCJayhawk on Feb 27, 2009 12:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Waters was the quiet, loyal soldier under multiple HC's.
If he is fed up, then it is fair to assume the others will be too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
god this is fuckin depressing…well thats the price of being a chiefs fan…lose our players and cant sign any…
by kcchiefsfan56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe he offended him
by evaluating his play and maybe questioned herms play calls for example what was herm thinking on that play why would he call that in that situation ?
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The picture they use of him on The Star website
looks like he is a cross dresser with makeup on.
by TXroyal on Feb 27, 2009 12:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
im really pissed right now
Everyone called this from the get go that haley was a douche within a week he proves everyone right .
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He still has like 4 years left on his contract
So he’s not going anywhere.
by Vince D on Feb 27, 2009 12:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Either way I dont want the entire locker room to be pissed off
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they need to be pissed off
it might make them play with some real intensity
Vae Victis!
by Buck'O on Feb 28, 2009 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What worries me
Is that from what I’ve heard Waters was kind of the de facto leader/voice to all these young players.
Now they see this voice saying he wants out. What will that do to the relationship between the rest of the players and management?
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I can count the veteran leaders on our team after the cuts on 1 finger (TG), and he wants out too.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We had better sign some veteran, leader FA's now. We didn't have enough last year, and we are losing more.
"and peep this ethiopian queen from philly taking classes abroad, she studying film and photo flash focus record"
I don't have religion. I have Baduizm.
by DThomasReigns on Feb 27, 2009 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
prime
exactly. Maybe the vets and the players are not use to these sort of micro managment everything always seemed to be like do your best now its like cut throat i dont know just a guess
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
well this sucks. all the secrecy so they can be d!cks??? come on now. and from pioli as well. i mean yeah you dont have to be a players coach/gm but you should talk to the players right? appears we have two HUGE egos leading KC. ugh this is why i hate parcells. overbloated self worth. blah.
by Hendrix on Feb 27, 2009 12:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This isn't what I had in mind
When I saw Pioli’s track record of dumping veterans.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
WTF
I don’t know if you can blame it on Haley or Pioli either one. I mean for one its not like they just got back from the combine and aren’t getting ready for free agency. What was Waters thinking. Hey they’re not busy. I’m gonna go ask them to lay out the plan to see if I want on board, or if I just want to start shit and try to find a way out of here cause I’m tired of losing and don’t want to deal with these guys cause some guys from Arizona told me they don’t like Haley.
KC Tat Guy
by KC Tat Guy on Feb 27, 2009 12:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely.
Terrible timing on Waters part. On such a busy day, evening, just before free agancy, when Haley and Pioli are probably analyising numerous plans, probably haven’t had much sleep, supposedly Waters flys in without any type of scheduled appointment and says, I want you guys to drop everything and fill me in on everything that is happening and going on. BS, who would expect Haley and Pioli to just drop everything……..and how would a Belichick re-act in the same situation? He’d, no doubt, would be considered arrogant too. To me, this sounds to me that Waters is completely OUT OF LINE.
by jcox31mc on Feb 27, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinkin...
almost the same thing, or maybe it didnt even go down like that and Waters doesn’t wanna look like the bad guy askin for a trade. So he blames management and now he looks like a victim.
by ComeSackMyQB on Feb 27, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It has to be deeper than that kc
waters is a class guy the guy has united way commercials for christ sakes. Something really shook him up
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Could be, but its funny how his timing kind of sucked.
KC Tat Guy
by KC Tat Guy on Feb 27, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waters is a nice guy but I never heard that he was hired in the front office to make decisions or to help make evaluations on what is best for the Chiefs. I think he was hired to block.
KC Tat Guy
by KC Tat Guy on Feb 27, 2009 12:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
ya
agree but if someone talks like an ass to you , you snap
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 12:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And we don’t know exactly how he was approached either. Waters wasn’t probably his happy go lucky self either, if he flew into KC and was walikin around Arrowhead lookin for the coach. I’m just guessing but I mean whats up with that. Plus the story seems a little one sided.
KC Tat Guy
by KC Tat Guy on Feb 27, 2009 12:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be surprised
The Star hasn’t had a good relationship with the Chiefs for a while. Pioli’s secrecy probably isn’t helping things.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I was thinking. The story seems like just that…a “story.” Give us some facts. Maybe Guppy was the source.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone considered the validity of the article?
I am eager to see how this unfolds. Not wanting to step on any toes, but I can’t stand Jason Whitlock and I really trust anything he writes. When I hear Brian Waters say that’s what happened, I’ll believe it. It kinda seems to me that Whitlock likes to stir people up. This might just be one of those times. He had to know there would be high traffic at this time tonight.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's citing a source
So I believe him. Plus, multiple editors at the Star likely signed off on this.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wishful thinking :)
It’s just weird. I thought Haley was respected by veterans and disliked by prima donna type players. Kurt Warner seemed to have alot of respect for him. Plus, he even gave LJ a clean slate! I guess I’m just curious as to the rest of the story. Doesn’t seem right.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 12:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But even kurt warner the man of god
had crazy arguments with him i dont know this dont look good we can have a dc or a oc that everyone hates but not a head coach this is heart breaking but what can we expect we see this coming a mile away after that bolden side line out burst
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll put it this way...
I get into arguments with people I respect all the time. My wife, my family, best friends. If I’m passionate about something and someone else is too, things will heat up, just like Haley-Warner, Haley-Boldin, etc. You have to be able to put that aside and work together. If a player can’t understand that, that’s there fault. This is a team and I’m rather have a team of good players no one ever hears about than a handful of Pro Bowlers always complaining.
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But in an ideal world...
I’ll take Pro Bowlers that don’t complain! :)
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To further that point
I’d take superbowlers over probowlers
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As a passionate person its up to YOU to control it
Everybody else shouldn’t have to put up with crazy crap coming out of your mouth just because you’re “passionate”.
Haley is COMPLETELY unproven. He was an OC for two years under an offensive minded head coach. He’s a rookie head coach that hasn’t coached his first game yet. He needs to be governing what comes out of his mouth and not making waves until he has some credibility with his players.
To Brian Waters this guy is the NFL version of the boss’s 25 year old son coming in and trying to run the joint. The only reason he got the job is because of his relationship to “the boss” Scott Pioli.
by ChiefDJ on Feb 27, 2009 6:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This..
is really devastating depressing ass news.
by Jew Boy on Feb 27, 2009 1:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Really upsetting!
Not the kind of start or news the Chiefs kingdom needs right now. And besides, Were talking about one of the NFL’s man of the year. WTF! They need to show some respect. Or Kansas citians need to march down to 1 Arrowhead Dr. and handle this! We must support our franchise players, before there is none left!
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And the season ticket holders
are probably like fuck im saving my money
No tony no lj no waters no donnie edwards
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
every agent is like
Hey man you dont want to go to kc man they got a dousch bag coach. And everyone is leaving . But you know who is taking applications the dallas cowboys oh and some ass hole in oakland named al davis
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Cowboys and Raiders
two model approaches to success in the NFL, Might as well be Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The team has won 6 out of the last 32 games....
What the hell does it matter what direction the team is going next season? It would be hard to get worse.
I’d like to hear the other side of this story, but we never will because Pioli won’t take this fight to the press.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Feb 27, 2009 1:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
hey
if you provide the flight ill provide the porn stars
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Haha,...sounds like a ,..
Deal to me. Where are you located anyways?
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anaheim ca
where the hos run free and beach is never far away
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel ya
shit,….I need to come out there
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where you from
you ever come to cali before see the big lights and the babes
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Richmond Va.
and no,…never been. Went to Tampa Fl. this year for the Superbowl. took 4 hours just to get out of there!! Freakin crazy!!!
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well thats cool
Out here is awsome where i live we got disney land thats like 6 blocks away from me so i go all the time with my buddys and then Los angeles is like 20 min the beach is like 10 min away and the mountains are like 30 min away this is the place to be .
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the plan!
your west coast, I’m east,…We meet up in the middle this year and go to a Chiefs game!! Oakland would be perferred! you opk with that!?
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you might as well come to san diego you dont want to go to the black
hole you will die for sure
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to get here i need to get their
i would kill to go to a chief home game my dream is to go to a game i need to go this year for sure we sucked so bad this year i was like im not going to waste my money to go see us get blown out .
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was down there this past weekend
for Disneyland. down from the valley. Man, I know its for kids, but I love disneyland.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
disneyland
is awsome its for kids but brings you back takes you away from life for a bit so its all good
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Legoland is cool too
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never been their
its in san diego right . i hate san diego i hate the people sorry if you guys know anyone their just hate the vibe they just try to be oc i dont know its weird their everyone wears cargo shorts sounds weird but really true
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlsbad just north of there
No my family is at Pendleton.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not really the people of san diego
its the charger fans they blow ballls they are the biggest pussies
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
My brother in law is a Chiefs fan and he is stationed out there. His family and kids all went to Sea World wearing Chiefs jerseys. It was priceless.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ya its funny
those fans they try to act hard but their is no such thing as a charger fan in my books they are pussies trust me
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They had a hard time selling out the home opener last year
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i want to know whats its like to live in kc what do you do on weekends give me the run down
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Florida now.
But when I did live here there some cool clubs and bars to go to.
the Power and Light District is pretty cool. They are just like anywhere else I guess. I am married and have a six year old so it is tough planning the weekends now a days.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how big is power and lights district
how far is it from the stadium
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is about 5 miles from the stadiun
Power and Light is downtown next to the Sprint Arena. The new stadium they built to attract an NBA or NHL team.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Power and Light isn't huge but they are adding on to it
It is the nicer club and bar area in KC it is pretty new.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck i need to get out their spread my wings a little
see whats its like out their
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We should get a bunch of people from the sight
to go to the game that they celebrate DT
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck that would be sweet
he is my all time fav player i would be down
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I grew up
watching his sacktastic games
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ya me to
he was the reason i became a fan
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I need to get to bed
We will have to get some fans together and go to that game. I miss it. I had season tickets before I moved to Pensacola.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i just want to eat kc ribs
thats all i want everyone says they are the best i want taste and see whats up
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah to me they are
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well i got to hit the sheeets
hope all you guys have a good night fuck brian waters and fuck haley bunch of ass holes they will both probably be joining jon mcgraw bagging my groceries next year hahah jk hopefully everything works out night guys
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and i wasnt kidding about jon mcgraw
he really bags my groceries hahah
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its probably better without kids
plus they serve booze at california adventure and then there’s plenty of stuff to do at downtown disney. And the 2-day parkhopper is a steal right now with the economy in the tank.
I had a blast this weekend. Haven’t laughed that hard for a long time. My best friend and I took our gfs down there (and they’re best friends) so we had a great rapport and we were just cracking jokes on everything and everyone.
And I pwned everyone at Astro Blasters.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that ride is sick
did you go on the new toy story ride fuck that is the best ride ever
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Wanted to, but the line was ridiculous by the time I got around to it late sunday. But I’m already planning my next trip. Shit, might as well invest in the season pass soon.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agoura
Its just inland from Malibu on the Ventura County and Los Angeles County border. I work in downtown L.A. though. bitch of a commute.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
phhh ya i was down their
in ventura at the ventura theater to see norma jean no one was their hell of a show that place is far
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
fortunately I get to make my own hours and avoid peak commuting times. Either way, we’ll have to meet up at the ESPN zone for a chiefs game this season. The arrowheadpride boards have a bunch of SoCal residents. We should plan it for Raiders week.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im fucking down
ill walk to espn zone
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh fer Fracks Sake!
This is so not the news I was hoping to hear tonight… Sigh… What’s happening? I thought things were on the up and up and my balloon, like the economic bubble, just got majorly popped!
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dang it Primetime
I was going to bed until I hit the home tab and saw this new post.
by Nelly on Feb 27, 2009 1:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
Now I’m gonna cry myself to sleep :(
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ya no shit
i was pumped nfl network actually gave us some love today and finally admitted maybe tyler thigpen is the qb
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
People around the league were saying it last year
Jaws really love this kid
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet
that given the way the Chiefs and Pioli operate now when you check the Star tomorrow the article will be removed from the page and Brian Waters will be doing a press conference announcing how he wants to retire a Chief. All kidding aside I am sure this will get resolved without us even hearing about it.
by Nelly on Feb 27, 2009 1:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cuz at this rate
I’m not only going to head into my classroom tired but in a straight up pissy mood tomorrow and my 8th graders are gonna be like WTF happened to our teacher?
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just give em a pop quiz
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then they'll know for sure
I’m in a bad freaking mood. :)
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
As fans we have had shit for to 4 years and this was the last straw.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cmotter,..
as much as I would like to see it happen,….But you ,might as well change that “Mayyybee” to “Not”
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Was pumped when we got Pioli. A little excited.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we all were,..&
still am! Just not too excited on the coach,….think we could have done better
by HOF4DT58 on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I really think this is all a big misunderstaning and it will be resolved.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time believing
Pioli would let this stuff happen. He has a good rep around the league.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the coach is good, an up and comer like everyone wanted
Pioli is a top 5 executive in the business. We have great leadership and the players are not used to that. They’re used to poor leadership and excuses. And what happens when we are confronted with an unknown situation? Fight or flight response.
Waters went into an unknown situation and triggered a reponse, bewildered, he is growling like a bear who was transplanted to a new zoo, once he realizes his new caretakers are better than the last he will grow to appreciate them
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 2:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Between the open thread, over flow and this
we put up nearly 1000 comments holy sh#t!
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Haley said 22 guys off the street can win 2 games
and he’s gonna prove it.
You wanna walk Waters? Sorry, its called a contract. You’re stuck, and if you wanna make money when we’re done with you, you’ll keep giving your all.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Later all got to give it up for the night
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pioli knows what he's doing.
And so does Haley.
These guys get paid boatloads of $$$ to play a game. And LJ, Waters, Tony: all under contract. They’re not gonna tank and lose their value or legacies just because they’re feelings were hurt. They’ll get pissed and that anger will make them wanna prove something.
So Waters forgot what it was like to have a no-nonsense coach tell him the brutal mf-ing truth. Well, we don’t have Daddy Herm here anymore or Dicky-poo to cry with you.
Our team sucked the last two years… and badly. We’ve been the joke of the goddamned league for two seasons now. I’m fed up and I’m glad we have a coach and a GM who aren’t gonna play nice anymore.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Me too
I want ass kickers not kissers. Lets get fired up, with a chip on our shoulder and change this loser mentality that has permeated in Kc for far too long. Its a smog that blankets are team, I am glad we have finally called in the cleaners to rid us of this stench and freshen the place up.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember last year......
Tony G was pretty upset with Herm…………………..but he got over it.
by jcox31mc on Feb 27, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Haley said that he was stating a fact
The Chiefs did win two games last year with guys off the street, remember open tryouts? Last time that was done was with Vermeil in 1978. We signed Babin and Boiman and some of these other guys that no one had heard of, its like the Indians lineup in the movie Major League.
Pioli wouldn’t meet with him because the coach is the face of the franchise, the coach runs the team. If a player wants to talk to someone he talks with the coach, not the GM. And if anything thats shows the GM doesnt cross that line which if anything shows that Pioli doesnt have an ego.
And finally Waters, Gonzales, Johnson and whoever else wants to talk trash in public can pack their bags, consider them veteran leaders, but what kind of leaders are they? Leaders of losers thus far in their careers. Change is coming to Kc, I love it, those who don’t embrace it will be swept aside.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion than an army of lions led by a sheep."
-Alexander the Great.
Well, Waters and LJ are looking like sheep.
Haley and Pioli are looking like lions.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 1:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The plan for the future of the Chiefs organization
was to have Brian Waters to play guard for the next 5 seasons. Did he really fly up to KC for a get to know ya session 3 days before free agency started? He either wanted a new contract, or some input on Pioli & Haley’s personnel decisions. In which case they were justified in denying him a meeting. He gets paid to play football, leave the personnel decisions to the pros.
by BGiZZY on Feb 27, 2009 1:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
ding ding ding ding ding
You won a +1
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he saw the 50 million under the cap and wanted to get a piece
then when Haley said dont think so your under contract, he tried to strong arm Haley and thats when Haley compared the Chiefs to pedestrians, to leave his office, and he’d see him at OTA’s, oh and by the way you’ll be competing with Albert @ startng LG so you may wanna save your energy
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I'd love Waters to stay and play...
It wouldn’t be the end of the world to trade him. I do it all the time on Madden :) He’s older, but he’s got good value!
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sweet how does it turn out for you
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great!
I usually get two players 4-5 years younger with equal potential! haha Doubt that plays out in real life!
by LTownChiefsFan on Feb 27, 2009 1:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do the same thing I usually get a 1 and 4 for him.
by sms90 on Feb 27, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Pioli listening? or should I say reading?
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is NOT the same Chiefs organization of a year ago
or 20 years ago. This is a totally new regime. Get used to it.
by oldchiefsfan on Feb 27, 2009 2:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Waters is in the wrong
He should behave like a professional, honor his contract.
I blame Whitlock for this.
by AngryJesus on Feb 27, 2009 3:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
get used to a different attitude around Arrowhead.
We may see a lot of people come through in the next 5 years
by AngryJesus on Feb 27, 2009 3:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is all for SHOW
I think our veterans feel, and maybe rightly so that they have had enough of this rebuilding. They are the few left along with a shit ton of new people. New players, coaches, its almost as if this is a new team to them. They have one thing on their mind, and its winning.
I can’t make judgment, because i know how i played and i hated to lose. Speaking as someone who was stuck on a shitty football team with players that never were consistantly putting out their all. IT really starts ti blow. On the other hand, I wasn’t under a multi-million dollar contract either
by WarChief on Feb 27, 2009 5:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN? Fox Sports?
Why am I not seeing anything about this on their sites? This seems like news worth reporting…
by timmer on Feb 27, 2009 5:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Waters
I think this is awesome! The years of the pet players running to the CEO are gone. The years of being pampered by your head coach are gone! These guys are spoiled little babies who have never won anything. I for one am happy to see a coach put his foot up Waters butt and tell him the way it is! I think Waters seems like a really good guy, but he has been on a pedestal here in KC for a few years now, same with Tony G and I think a dose of reality(as in WIN something and we will give you the respect you feel you have earned) is just what this team needs.
by Poodge on Feb 27, 2009 6:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Waters is experiencing a little culture shock going from Vermeil & Herm to hearing the truth about how far this team needs to go. And now you can’t run to the GM if you are mad at the coach.
I’ve always liked Waters and I still like him. He just needs to understand that things are different now. The culture is changing and it’s about the team winning, period.
by Offense of the 70s on Feb 27, 2009 7:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Football is a business. Running to the GM or trying to run to the owner won’t be allowed anymore.
How many Super Bowls have we won with the players running around like spoiled babies?
by ashleylat on Feb 27, 2009 7:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's all well and good.
But, the fact remains that Haley and Pioli both came off as jackasses and one of our best, most consistent team players wants out.
There are three guys on this team that I’ve always considered consumate professionals who go out there and give there all for the team no matter what: Donnie Edwards, Tony G., and Brian Waters.
One of them got cut. The other two, apparently, want out. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, that’s not a good way to start off for a new regime.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've Got No Problem With Edwards Getting Cut
He was pretty much done as an effective starter and he made too much money to warm the bench. Nothing against the guy, because I always liked him, but his inability to stay on the field was a large part of why the defense stunk.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Old guys think they run the place
Waters, Edwards and Tony are all old. I want TG and Waters to stay, but they need to understand that things are different now and they aren’t going to be making personnel decisions. They aren’t going to be able to tell the coach what they want the team to do and they aren’t going to be able to run and tell on the coach to the GM anymore.
As long as Waters is reasonable, this will blow over just like Gonzalez’s complaints in Hawaii blew over. Waters should’ve at least gone to camp with the new staff and let the new front office have one draft and one free agency signing period before running to the press to attack them. He has no idea what direction the team is going to go yet, so if he wants out already it’s only because his ample butt wasn’t kissed enough by the new coach. Too bad, he needs to deal with the new reality instead of running to the sportswriters to badmouth the new coach who he’s never even practiced with.
This whole article is spun from Waters side of things, and it’s an attempt from Whitlock to try to pressure the front office to give more stories to the sportswriters. It’s not going to work, Pioli has no interest in helping sportswriters write their stories easily. The media also needs to realize that things are different now.
What was the big crime alleged by Waters anyway? That Haley spoke the truth about how crappy the team was? That’s not a crime, that’s a fact. Waters sounds like someone who wanted to talk about getting a piece of all that salary cap room, and to tell the new coach how things should be. If that’s what he wanted, it’s no surprise that he didn’t get anywhere. He still should’ve kept quiet instead of trying to sabotage the new administration before they’ve even really started. Bad form from Waters, that’s not good veteran leadership, that’s putting his own interests ahead of everything else.
I still like the guy and I think if he thinks about it and is reasonable and stops running to the papers to whine, this will blow over soon.
by Offense of the 70s on Feb 27, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yer either
fer us or agin us. That’s what Dubya said.
Tim Tebow.....concrete cyanide. Thanks jg.
by Chiefho on Feb 27, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The really interesting part of this
is that a story actually got out of Arrowhead!
by Chris Thorman on Feb 27, 2009 7:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Which I'm inclined to believe
was released by Waters… so it’s probably not good.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
by IISaiNtII on Feb 27, 2009 7:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for winning . . .
. . . but I’m not all ABOUT winning. What you sacrifice to win had better not be more valuable than the winning itself.
Waters is a guy who gives respect and deserves respect. Doesn’t matter the circumstances, a HC who cares about his players doesn’t dress down a vet who has done nothing but bleed red and yellow.
Haley better not steal the “respected” part of our organization.
by bakerlee on Feb 27, 2009 8:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thats nice
thats nice and all but this is the NFL, and the NFL is all about winning. Obivously the Chiefs had a lot of respect last year.
by sms90 on Feb 27, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Watery-eyes really showed a lot of respect by demanding to know what was going on from Haley/Pioli, handing his crybaby story to Whitlock, and asking to be released… That’s a lot of respect, yep…
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
by IISaiNtII on Feb 27, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's about time
we got a staff that has zero tolerance for bullsh#t! If the malcontents want out……fine. Get what we can for them and draft o-line baby. Players can drink the koolaid or go have a coke and a smile elewhere. This ain’t the love train.
Tim Tebow.....concrete cyanide. Thanks jg.
by Chiefho on Feb 27, 2009 8:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
elsewhere
Tim Tebow.....concrete cyanide. Thanks jg.
by Chiefho on Feb 27, 2009 8:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I said all I needed to last night, this is the last thing I have to say to Waters
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 8:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Slap hands slap hands
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
by cmpotter on Feb 27, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet
Thiggys shaking his head now. I’m a fan of Pioli but not a fan of Haley. He’ll say something to the wrong player and get his SHit pushed back.
by GHOST OF DT on Feb 27, 2009 9:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I figured this might happen with Haley
Doesn’t seem like a great player’s coach. I don’t know if I’m wild about him yet. Especially after what happened with Anquan Boldin on the sidelines. I’m more of a Vermeil personality liker.
A new GM, a new coach, a new year. A new sense of hope and pride.
by CBaller13 on Feb 27, 2009 9:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about the same situation
where the Cardinals were driving on potentially there season ending drive and Boldin was being an individual complaining that he wasnt getting the ball and Haley told him to get away in essence that he had more important things to do like winninig the game instead of pampering to the player’s ego?
Sometimes in life, like being on a team for instance, you put individual stats and concerns aside because its the team’s success that is ultimately important.
Haley made the right call there and the right call with Waters.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
22 players off the street could win two games
I vaguely recall a situation where players off the street did more than just win 2 games. I recall watching a documentary about the player strike back int he 80s where a team of replacements did rather well.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Feb 27, 2009 9:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
and the cheerleaders rocked also!
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Comments
I’m sure glad to see most of you guys supportive of the coach. It’s about time KC had a “no-nonsence” coach. How would this go down if Waters was approaching a Parcells or Belichick? Just think about it…….there’s a couple of new sherrif’s in town.
by jcox31mc on Feb 27, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No Big
I agree 22 guys off the street could win 2 games. The team was wretched and incompetent beyond belief. I like and respect Waters. He has a contract and he isn’t going anywhere, suck it up. Your feelings hurt, get a box of chocolates and some flowers.Hell when Mike Tomlin took over a good team he told them it’s “my way or the highway” so how much more so here? Haley may be a prick, so what. Can he coach? That is all I care about.
by FrankPitts on Feb 27, 2009 9:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
tomlin was part of the system
players already knew what to expect
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Haley and Pioli are making their statements about what players can expect
So what’s the difference?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Right now, the leaders are leading, the followers are following, and the player under contract need to get out of the way so good things can happen.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
by IISaiNtII on Feb 27, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Waters
Is the #1 leader on the team, and they just told him to get out of the way.
Sorry, but a mistake. You need players as leaders too, anyone thats played the game knows that.
The other downside is, I promise his teammates respect Waters more than they do Haley right now, so this is bad on about 50 different levels.
AGAIN, I’m not saying Waters is without blame, but I wish it was handled more professionally on both sides.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
The coach is the leader, then you have guys in the locker room that make sure people know their jobs and conduct business according to team policy. See NE Patriots as the best example. You ever here about Brady or Bruschi asking to be traded because they couldn’t get along with Big Bill or get a one on one meeting? No you never heard that because they are winners and no how to handle themselves accordingly.
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Translated.
Big Bill doesn’t tell his star players to take a walk when they want to chat with him. Haley did. That’s a rather major difference in the way they do things.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Belichick can get away with chewing out his players because he’s been a productive head coach and he’s proven what he can accomplish. Haley’s a rookie coach who hasn’t proven anything.
And Pioli’s also a rookie GM, who hasn’t proven that he was as integral to New England’s success as Belichick.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Brady isn't a leader??
Seriously? Bruschi isn’t a leader? Yeah, the HC is the main leader, but younger players look up to vets and find their way from them FAR more than they do from the HC.
And Haley IS NOT Belicheck, he hasn’t won sh8t yet, so it may be nice to bring the ego down a bit.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waters "leadership"
led to only six wins in the last two years.
If he ceases to be a “leader” with this development, someone will step into those shoes. Waters was a leader because he reflected the personality of the coaches that were here, those coaches that never won us a single playoff game.
New leaders will emerge that reflect the passion, intensity, and downright seriously ready to break some mf-ers in black, orange, or powder blue jerseys. Those are the leaders that will take us to the promised land.
by Sudden on Feb 27, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What system?
Tomlin came to the Steelers from the Vikings and they had no idea what to expect, in fact the vets were a stunned a young guy would walk in and lay the law down.
by FrankPitts on Feb 27, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
22 guys off the street can win 2 games....
That’s the kind of thing you say to the younger kids, not a seasoned vet whose played in multiple pro bowls and has proven himself. I would be pissed too if I knew I have been doing more than my job requires and still be treated like dirt. You can’t rebuild a team without a good amount of veteran leaders. A bunch of rookies running around on the field won’t win many games. And our new head coach isn’t shy about driving away our two best players TG and Waters. That is just plain stupid.
by Bearson on Feb 27, 2009 10:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I love Brian Waters...
…and everything he’s done for the Chiefs. But I’m not going to feel sorry for someone on the team who still wants to play “Herman-Ball.” There’s a reason we got rid of that attitude here from the ground up.
by jbj8609 on Feb 27, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
22 Guys off the Street ...
Yeah, you’re right, guys. Maybe 22 guys off of the street could win two games (unless, you know, they’re 22 guys like the Detroit Lions).
And, I’ll admit, my coaching experience is pretty much limited to little league football. But, even I know that you don’t win and you don’t build a winning team by pissing off your best players.
Waters was one of the few guys on the team who wasn’t entirely pedestrian last season. The guys on the other side of the offensive line? Sure, pretty much anyone could’ve walked on and done what they did.
You don’t make it to the Pro Bowl being a guy off of the street, and you damn sure don’t do it when your team’s only won two games.
You keep pissing off your rock-solid, anything-for-the-team guys like Brian Waters — one of only a handful of truly elite players on your team — and you’re going to find out if you really can win two games with a bunch of guys off of the street because those are the only guys who you’ll be able to find to play for you.
The problem is, we’re trying to win more than two games. If I recall, we brought Haley here to make sure we do that. This ain’t a good way to start.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
THE REVENGE OF THE STAR
The Star has had enough, they have grown accustomed to a RUN YOUR MOUTH GM that ran to the media with any and ALL INFO that he thought would give him his 10 seconds in FAME~
They are not use to a GM saying, ITS NONE OF YA BUSINESS, report on the players and anything else ya want to, but you wont get it from ME! THUS MAKING IT a NON TOPIC, THUS giving you NO SOURCE, THUS you MAKING UP SUCH * SAID SOURCE *
I HAVE A FEELING THE SOURCE and I hate to say it is and was:
THE HAMBURGLAR from MC D’s told WHITLOCK as he ate his 10 MC DOUBLE CHESSE’s
LMAO
or maybe it was GRIMACE, he hates the chiefs!
Ol' Kansan' Chief
by Kansan_Chief on Feb 27, 2009 10:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Of course!
Grimace is obviously a Vikings fan.
by BGiZZY on Feb 27, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop Crying
Almost everybody on this site wanted Pioli/Haley. Now everybody is crying that Haley hurt B dubs feelings. Fuck that. How many games did Waters help us win? 2!!! Its not like Haley is coming in here and pissing off a championship caliber squad. Lets get real guys. The chiefs are bottom feeders! We just went through 3 years of a players coach coddling the players. Maybe this is what we need. Piss these guys off and maybe the will play harder!
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 10:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
How many games do we win without Waters? How many quarterbacks do we go through in a season?
The Chiefs aren’t a championship-calibre squad. You’re right about that. But, you don’t build a championship-calibre squad by making your championship-calibre players walk. And, that’s what Haley’s doing.
(And, for the record, I didn’t want Haley. I’ve always thought he seemed like an ass. Turns out, I’m right.)
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many quaterbacks
did we go through with Waters last season?
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which side?
Which side did the defenders that took out Brodie and Damon come through?
How many sacks did Waters and Albert give up compared to the rest of the line?
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a team
there is no I in team. The team sucked as a whole and that was what Haley was talking about. I highly doubt Haley said “Waters, you suck.” Im sure it was more along the lines of the whole team sucks.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If You're Saying That All Members Of The Team Are Equally To Blame For The 2-14 Season
That may be standard coaching rhetoric and it may work in the locker room, but it’s simply not true. Guys like LJ (attitude), McIntosh (suckiness) and Donnie Edwards (injury) had a lot more to do with the failures of the 2008 Chiefs than a guy who showed up every day and performed at a Pro Bowl level. If Haley wants to insult LJ in a hallway, I probably wouldn’t bat an eye because the guy’s…well, he’s a bitchy little prima donna who needs to be told to shut the hell up. But Waters hasn’t earned that kind of treatment with his performance. He hasn’t earned the right to dictate terms to the coach and GM, of course, but he still merits a bit more respect than the scrubs and non-hackers.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
Its a matter of respect. Waters has earned his respect.
And this was a guy that came from nothing, remember. He built himself up from an undrafted FA from a small school to a probowler…this isn’t one of these superstar athletes coddled since he was in junior HS.
He also isn’t to blame for going 2-14, just like Calvin Johnson isn’t to blame for the Lions going 0-16.
In football, it takes LOTS of good players to win.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How
did Haley insult Waters? By saying a team of guys off the street could win 2 games? Im sorry if that offended Waters but its the truth. I hate when a player thinks he is above the rest of the team. The Chiefs suck. Get over it Waters.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not the truth.
You want a team of guys off the street? There’s a bunch of them at Division II NCAA schools.
You think any of those college teams could’ve even managed to beat the Lions last year? Not likely.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waters didn't deserve that.
There was a whole lot of suck on this team last year.
Waters wasn’t part of it.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is 1/53 on the team
guilt by association, he was part of the suck, and since you continually state he is a leader, then I continue your logic with Waters was leader of the suck
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea you
wanted to keep Herm if i remember correctly.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
And, I’d still rather have him over Haley.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t replace Herm. You should. But Haley wasn’t the guy to do it.
Just like you bring in competition for Thigpen to make him earn the job and push him to be better. But you don’t do it by wasting the third pick in the draft on Sanchez or Stafford. You wait until next year and pick up Tebow, or McCoy, or Bradford who are all superior to any of the QBs in the Draft this year.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
You make it so difficult to take your side when you say stuff like that. :)
Herm sucked, and even if Haley turns out to suck it doesn’t mean Herm was suddenly a good coach. He deserved to be fired and I for one am glad he’s not here. Even if Haley turns out to be worse than him (because it still doesn’t make Herm any better).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it makes Herm better.
There were a lot of guys out there who could’ve replaced Herm. There will be a few more next year who would’ve been better candidates than any of the guys that were options this year (Cowher among them).
I’m saying you replace Herm with a better coach. You don’t replace him just for the sake of replacing him with a coach that a) has a history of alienating players and b) has no experience actually doing the job and c) may’ve gotten hired just because he’s a friend of yours.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
On the subject of Haley, it’s important to remember though that every great coach in the NFL at one point started out unproven. Haley might be worse than Herm, or he might be better…we just don’t know yet, because he had no track record. Shanahan might have been a championship coach here (I liked the idea of hiring him…although it appears that was never close to being a reality) or maybe he’d just be mediocre. Cowher might have been great here, or he might have flamed out like Jimmy Johnson did in Miami after taking too much time off. It was smart to get rid of Herm because Herm had pretty clearly demonstrated he wasn’t going to take this team to a championship. But while I’m not thrilled with how Haley’s handling the job so far, it’s also important to keep in mind that we have no idea what he can do because he’s yet to coach his first game.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You lose
all credibility with me with statements like that JacinB.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense, but ...
… If credibility with you were something I was interested in earning, I’d be concerned. I’m not, so I don’t care.
Look at that. I just Haley’d you. Like it much?
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesnt bother me
im not a little whiner like you and Waters.
You just got paratrooper’d.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we could go back
to the day of coddling the players. Obviously thats what you want but i would like to see the Chiefs win more than 2 games next season.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Black and White
For some reason everyone wants to see things like this black and white, when its actually grey.
Look, I wanted and still want Pioli, but that doesn’t mean that he’s not going to make mistakes. I hope he learns from this mistake, b/c thats exactly what it was.
If I had to pick between Pioli and Waters, I’d rather have Pioli, but it doesn’t work like that.
We need MORE players like Waters, not less, and if Pioli could have diffused this situation by talking with him for a few minutes, he should have.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, to a certain extent.
I agree that if the situation could’ve been diffused, it should’ve. But you can’t expect the GM and Head Coach to drop everything for a player that just flew in thinking that he deserved a meeting because he’s a veteran player. I mean c’mon, this is one of the busiest weeks of the offseason.
by MansGame on Feb 27, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's A Valid Point Too
And I agree that it’s also possible it’s as much or more Waters’ fault as Haley’s. Just saying that it seems they handled the situation very poorly, though.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It just really kills me that the NFL (and almost all sports for that matter) is almost to a point where stroking ego’s is more important than the task at hand…winning a Super Bowl.
These guys need to wipe away the tears from getting their feelings hurt and get back to work.
by MansGame on Feb 27, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's Because Of Free Agency
Players have an option where they can go, and if a coach isn’t someone who can get players to buy into what he’s selling, those players can leave. Personally, I don’t have a problem with it…it’s the way the rest of the world works. I mean, if you were a productive worker at your job, you’d been recognized for the work you put in because you exceeded the standards, and your boss insults you in a hallway how stoked would you be to be there?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I guess I see that. But I’m just trying to imagine what it would be like if I showed up unannounced at my CEO’s office to talk about my job..haha. I’m sure I’d get laughed at.
by MansGame on Feb 27, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you were one of the 5 most important employees in your company
He’d probably make an appointment for you.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to hear who you think the other 4 are?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its hard to know
With as secrative this team is, and I wasn’t trying to put him at an exact spot on the list, maybe he’s 8th, maybe 4th, I don’t have any clue, but he’s high on the list in a company employing 1000 people.
Obviously the HC, OC and DC, after that your players that are leaders are very important to getting the most out of your team.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tony G., Dwayne Bowe...
That’s really about it. Nobody else has produced well enough to merit an audience with the GM. But I think Waters is pretty clearly in the top 3 players on the team.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The statement was
If you were one of the 5 most important employees in your company
I am not so sure I would put any players at this point in that position
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd Put Tony G. In That Position
Maybe not Bowe, though, because he’s still very young and has his own issues with developing. Waters would probably fit that description, though.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, as would I
Both because of what they’ve done, and because of thier leadership positions on the team.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you are a top 5 employee
for say Fannie or Freddie, you deserve to be insulted…..
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, They Don't
Matter of fact, that’s usually the worst course of action to take. Companies that are struggling and need to rebuild require the efforts of their best employees, otherwise they continue to struggle.
Like Circuit City, for example…they were in the red two years ago, so their approach was to fire all of their sales staff and service people making over a certain salary level. Basically, all the experienced personnel who were good at their jobs. Then they built the organization around minimum wage employees who were either new and inexperienced, or underachievers who made too little to bitch. Now Circuit City’s bankrupt.
Insulting your most productive employees is never a good way to get your organization back on track. And if that’s what Haley did and things went down the way the article said they did, it was a really stupid blunder on Haley’s and Pioli’s part.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree UC
most times i agree with you, but the employees of Fannie and Freddie need to be laughed out of the building.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Generalization
I hate Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae more than you do, most likely, but claiming that every single employee who works for a badly run company is obviously too incompetent to have value to a good company is guilt by association and bad logic.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Haley
said Waters doesnt have any value for this team, i just think he didnt have time for a players crap and he said as much. Waters needs to put his big boy pants on. Just because he went to the Pro Bowl doesnt mean he is above the team. Team comes first.. not the individual player.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think That's What Waters Took From It
i just think he didnt have time for a players crap and he said as much
Too bad that’s his job. Being a coach means you need to be able to communicate effectively with your players.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But a player doesnt dictate shit. If he wants to have a private discussion, make an appointment. Dont barge in and demand to be heard. I think Waters should have known better.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
And if Waters did barge in, then yes he handled it poorly too.
Again, I’m just as open to the possibility that Waters is to blame here…unfortunately since the Chiefs have been pretty hostile towards giving out information, and since Haley’s got a track record of confrontations with players, it makes it a little tough to sympathize with him if he’s insulting one of his best players in a situation that might have easily been resolved with a little professional courtesy.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
i just like hard chargers. I go about everything i do with a sense of urgency. When i was a team leader in the army i didnt give a shit about what my Joes thought. I didnt care if they liked me or not. All i was worried about was results. i was a dick, but only when i had to be. When my team was running the way i wanted it, with out having to tell them to do every little thing, I eased off them. I thnk that is what Haley is doing.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“i was a dick, but only when i had to be.”
That’s the difference between you and Haley, then.
Apparently, he’s a dick even when he doesn’t have to be.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
It’s important to draw the distinction that the NFL isn’t the Army. These guys are pulling in a lot of cash, they are the draw for the fans (nobody goes to the games to watch the head coach and GM), and they don’t get thrown in prison if they tell the coach to go fuck himself or halfass their job…they can get fined or suspended, but the same level of fear isn’t there that exists in the military for not agreeing with the boss. So the head coach cannot simply be a dick just because he feels like it…he does have to sell his players and get them to buy in.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
this isnt the military. But these players have the privledge to play a game for a lot of money. They need to remember that its not a right its a privledge and that it can be taken away at anytime. I for one dont feel like hearing shit out of these players untill they win a little more than 2 games a season.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Not A "Privilege" To Play Football
It’s a job…they’re contractual wokers rendering a highly skilled service that earns a lot of money for their employers. They might enjoy or love their job, but it’s still a job. The NFL isn’t giving them the job out of some kind of benevolent goodwill…they’re giving them that job because people with the skill sets and abilities NFL players have are rare and valuable and there’s money to be made.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not saying
that the owners will give them a job out of goodwill, but it is a privledge. i realize they are contract labor, but they are making millions of dollars to play a game
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Not A Game, Per Se
It’s a business featuring highly skilled workers. That’s a common misconception about professional sports…that it’s ultimately a frivolous enterprise and that these workers are overpaid because their skills are physical in nature and many of the fans believe on some level that they’re just as capable of stepping in and producing given the chance. And that’s not accurate…the average person off the street would struggle to make a practice squad and the average person playing a few snaps in an NFL game would have a good chance of being crippled or killed.
In his own way, a player the NFL really isn’t any different from someone who works in advanced physics, or who practices law…NFL players are paid a lot because they have skill sets that aren’t easily found and they’re being compensated for them at a level more or less equivalent to what they produce for the NFL owners in revenue. So it’s not really a privilege to play in the NFL…or at least no more of a privilege than it is for the NFL to have those players there in the first place (instead of having them go play baseball or basketball or hockey).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem
with what players make. I reallize how much money is at stake (or maybe i don’t). They are highly skilled at what they do and they make a lot of money for the companies they work for so they should be paid well for that. But im calling it what it is, its a game. Its not advanced physics or medicine here. Its football.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In Its Own Way, It Is Physics Or Medicine
No matter how hard they might work at it, not everyone is capable of being a doctor or a lawyer or a physicist. In the same way, not everyone is capable of being a professional athlete. They’re all highly-skilled professions, but the difference is that professional athletes tend to have their skills looked down at by many because they’re physical in nature instead of mental (so we often tend to develop the impression that athletes “lucked into” their field rather than getting there on merit and hard work). When in fact, many of the most successful doctors, physicists, and lawyers are naturally smart people as well and owe just as much of their success to natural ability or luck as a professional athlete does.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing says he wanted to dictate anything.
The article says he wanted to just have a talk to ‘hear their plan for the direction of the organization’.
Pioli refused to talk to him except to tell him that they had nothing to discuss.
Haley started off, apparently, by denegrating the job he did last year and then didn’t bother rectifying the situation in multiple follow-up calls. And then, when Waters asked for a trade, blasted him again.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
uh he demanded to talk
to Haley. I think thats dictating…..
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And?
Haley didn’t seem to have any issue talking to him, as evidenced by his actually meeting with Waters and then taking multiple calls from him to continue the discussion after.
It’s what he said to Waters that’s the problem.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see
how some people would take offense to that. I guess i just have a thicker skin than most. I think Waters just needs to wipe the sand out of his Vagina and use this as motivation to improve himself and his team.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm, He Made The Pro Bowl Last Year
And most of the problems with the team weren’t because of things he was doing (or failing to do). There’s only so much you can expect one player to achieve and Waters exceeded the standard for his position.
It wasn’t Waters’ fault that the defense and special teams sucked. It wasn’t Waters’ fault that Herm couldn’t manage a game. It wasn’t Waters’ fault that Carl was a terrible evaluator of talent. It wasn’t Waters’ fault that Dwayne Bowe drops balls. It wasn’t Waters’ fault that LJ has problems with women and alcohol. He held up his end as best an offensive guard could.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said
that the team going 2-14 is Wates’ fault. I never said that Waters didnt due a superb job at his position. Waters may very well set the standard for LGs thoughout the NFL. But people should always look to improve their self in whatever they do. You are never perfect and you can always get better at your job.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This Is What I'm Getting At
If you’re a head coach, and you’re taking over a team that went 2-14, then where’s the upside in insulting one of the guys on the team who had the least to do with it going 2-14? Like I said, if it was LJ Haley was telling to fuck off, I wouldn’t care…because LJ was one of the ones responsible for last year’s problems. Waters wasn’t, so even if Haley’s not obligated to take Waters’ input (and he isn’t), the smart move is still to give Waters some professional courtesy and not alienate one of the guys who can help you turn the team around.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that he could of handled it better but Waters didnt have to get butt hurt and run tto the GM and then Whitlock.
I think you are more pissed at how Haley handled himself, and that i am more pissed at how Waters took it. It seems that we are arguing with out knowing how each other feels about the situation.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not defending
Haley, but more of attacking Waters.
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood
I agree that Waters probably could have handled it better too. I think I’m more irritated with Haley, though, because ultimately Waters is just one player on a team and he’ll be gone in a couple of years anyway, but Haley is the coach of the team and if this is how he treats his better producing employees and if he can’t get them to buy into what he’s selling then it doesn’t bode well for his chances of getting this team to win.
Right now he’s looking to me more like a Mangini than a Belichick. And I don’t think too highly of Mangini.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
He doesnt sound very good when put like that!
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't.
He went to the GM first, according to the story, and was told to pound sand.
He went to Haley, figuring that at least the coach could make time to talk to him. And, the coach did, except that most of the talking involved what Waters’ took as insulting his skills and the effort he put in.
Then, he went to the owner.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe..
This was the desperation of a guy wanting out of KC because in 3 years, when his contract expires, where is he going to be physically? This could be a last ditch effort to get a little more money from a different team before his years are up.
To be honest, this is just me talking out of my ass and seeing if there is a different angle to all of this..what do you guys think?
by MansGame on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Won't Dismiss That Idea
Maybe he does want to go elsewhere and he’s being sneaky about it. That thought occured to me too. Guess we’ll see.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only time will tell..
until then, we will bring up ridiculous, far fetched ideas in the blogs.
MansGame out…
by MansGame on Feb 27, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Likely there is fault to go around
Which, like I said, why this is grey, not black or white.
According the article, ‘Waters asked for his release two days after a brief meeting with new head coach Todd Haley and after being told by first-time general manager Scott Pioli that he had no interest in meeting with Waters, the source said.’
I hope to get more clarification later on this (although I won’t hold my breath) but thats one thing that bugs me, most are assuming that this was a matter of being too busy to meat with Waters, but there is no indication that was the case, it was more a matter of not thinking it was important.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
paratrooper
im on your side on this one its time for the players to ship up or ship out im ready to make moves if brian wants out lets get some draft picks
by sexassassin on Feb 27, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
God i love your name
it classy… like me!
by paratrooper on Feb 27, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Business as Usual Has Changed
Better get used to this. There was a strong message sent to the entire roster. If Pioli and Haley are unwilling to be bend over backwards to stroke Brian Waters, then no one else better even dream of trying to throw thier weight around.
Pioli and Haley do not care who you are. The individual is not more important than the team. We have guys who are used to being coddled and allowed to disrupt. That has come to a screeching halt. You get paid a lot of money to play, not coach, so put your head down and play. Being the best lineman on a bad line buys you nothing with this regime.
This is gonna be fun to watch.
by Spruce on Feb 27, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good Point...the guard has changed (pun intended)
Being the best Chiefs O-lineman is like being Valedictorian at Retard Camp…
Pioli just said “FA just started, i’m still going over combine numbers, and i’m trying to hire another coach. I really don’t have time for B Waters to come in and tell me about MY OWN TEAM. So Brain, quit crying, get those other OL guys together and go practice some kick-slides or hit the sled or something…”
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on Feb 27, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcells had a similar incident with Jason Taylor.
That ended with Taylor being shipped out of Miami but with the Dolphins winning their division. Get used to this folks, no player is going to be above the teams. Chiefs fans will have to stop being nostalgic about players. Unless they want Peterson back, who consistently rewarded players with big contracts for past performance.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What A Dumbass
This is not how you start out as a coach. What kind of signal does it send to the young guys on the roster that the most respected vets are wanting out of the situation? I understand coming in with your own philosophy and all, but come the F on! Alienating your most loyal vet (Waters) speaks volumes about our new coach. Obviously Boldin didn’t like him in Arizona and now we hear Warner and Fitzgerald didn’t have anything nice to say at the pro bowl either? This dude better do something impressive once the season starts b/c his first off-season aint winning over his current roster of players. I know its early but he is looking like a complete dumbass right now.
by Wildcat2180 on Feb 27, 2009 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
BS
Fitzgerald said Haley made him into the receiver he is today, Warner said that he and Haley are both ultra competive and that Haley is an awesome coach. Those quotes were not attributed to Warner and Fitzgerald
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Were there a lot of other Cardinals at the Pro Bowl?
The guys who were talking about Haley played for him. That suggests they played offense.
The only Cards that went on offense were Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.
The ‘source’ said that there were mulitple Cardinals that said these things about Haley. So, that means it was more than just Boldin, who we already know Haley’s had ‘issues’ with.
Yeah, I guess Adrian Wilson (Safety) and Sean Morey (Special Teamer) could’ve been in the discussion, but the article sure doesn’t sound that way.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One other thing,
If I were Scott Pioli, after I talked with my head coach and then snubbed Waters’ request for a meeting, I would call Whitlock and throw him a bone. What good does it do to make an example of someone if no one else knows about it. I wouldn’t be so quick to say Waters was the leak.
by whoadog on Feb 27, 2009 12:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who is Whitlock's "source?"
Is it Waters himself? I think we all know how reliable unnamed sources are (cough — Chris Mortonsen — cough). And if this is all true, Waters tried to go over Pioli’s head and talk to Clark about it? If any/all of this is true it sounds worse for Waters than for Pioli and Haley. Is it too late for Waters to get on Dancing with the Stars?
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness, could the conversation have gone down like this?
Haley to assistant: "And tell Mr. so and so I will return his call in a few minutes, I have to go down the hall and return this message to Ray Farmer."
As Haley walks down the hallway, he sees Brian Waters and says, "Brian how are you?"
BW: "I’m doing ok, listen I’d like to talk to you and Scott about the direction of the team"
TH: "Well I am tore up busy right now, can we do it later?"
BW: "I just flew into town to talk with you guys and we need to try and do it now"
TH: "Really I’d like to, we just got in from the combine and we are trying to get on top of the free agency things at the moment and I think Scott is handling several calls to other GM’s, this really needs to wait Brian"
BW: "Well, I think you should take a few minutes and sit down with me and talk about it, those things can wait."
TH: "Brian, I really want to talk with you, but I just can’t right now"
BW: "Why can’t you talk with me, I mean I flew up here on my own and you at least owe me that."
TH: "Seriously Brian, why do I owe you that, just because you’re a veteran? Because you have been here for nine losing years? What have you guys done the last two years, win what 6 games? 6 games are you kidding me? I could get 22 players off the street to win two games in one season. Come on man, lets sit down next week or so and we will talk, just call ahead next time and we will schedule something."
BW: "I’ll tell you what, just trade me or release me I’m done with this team"
Why do we automatically assume Haley was the jerk and poor Brian Waters who “has Character” wasn’t being an ass and trying to bully his way into a meeting?
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll admit that this is possible
How come you can’t admit it could have gone down the way the Star article portays it?
Why all this F8ck you Waters stuff, when he’s been the standup leader of this team, and Haley’s been here a month?
Most likely, they probably both are partially to blame, I just can’t believe everyone turned on Waters that quick.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two Words - Jason Whitlock
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not to proud to admit I was wrong for putting up the mini me pic
that was over the top and neither party deserves that. But we shouldn’t just outright accept how a few former players portray Haley as just an Asshole either.
"But what do I know, I'm AP's new asshole and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Feb 27, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Haley probably isn’t quite as bad as some have said…
BUT, he now has a history of butting heads with star players…if its a TO or LJ type, thats fine, but everything we’ve seen out of Waters says he’s not that kind of guy…could he be? Sure, its possible.
The comment below was mean to be a reply, my bust.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What In The Hell Are You Talking About?
I haven’t seen Whitlock write a word about Waters.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't just the hallway meeting.
Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversationsconfirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate …
There were follow-up conversations.
Not just one follow-up conversation, but plural follow-up conversations.
So, Haley blew it in the first meeting and then continued to not make things right in subsequent meetings, culminating in one of the only guys on the team that you could really count on to ask to be traded — at which point Haley apparently blasted him again and told him to eat the #### Haley was feeding him and like it.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would suggest Waters give Jason Taylor a call.
He could ask Jason how much fun it must have been to watch the Dolphins in the playoffs. I’m sure Taylor can afford a top of the line plasma screen.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh huh.
You really think the Chiefs are going to pull a Dolphins-like turnaround? Really?
I’m generally an optimist. I certainly hope that happens. But, I’ve seen absolutely nothing out of Arrowhead since the end of last season that makes me think it will.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Got To Agree
Maybe Pendergast and Gibbs ain’t Todd Bowles. Haley might be a capable coach, but very few of the new guys he’s brought in make me think this coaching staff’s going to be anything special. The only move I loved was the retention of Gailey, and even then Gailey sounded less than ecstatic about the situation here, which led me to believe the only reason he didn’t depart was because the team wouldn’t let him leave.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you think the Dolphins were going to make a Dolphins-like turnaround?
Nobody did. The Dolphins were even worse than the 2008 Chiefs. The NFL is designed for teams to rebound quickly.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When Management Makes Smart Decisions
Jury’s still out on how smart any of Pioli’s and Haley’s decisions are (since they’ve yet to win a single game). Plenty of teams go in the toilet in the NFL and stay in the toilet for a long time because they compound the mistakes their predecessors make (Cardinals, Rams, Lions).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes i believe now more than ever
that the chiefs will pull an epic turn aorund and be kicking ass for years to come
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Listen
I almost never agree with Whitlock’s opinions, but this wasn’t a column.
This was spoon fed to him, likely from Waters himself. He tried to let the Chiefs respond, but they don’t talk to the media, fine…
SO, you have Whitlock, or don’t trust him, or whatever, why the F*CK YOU Waters stuff??
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whitlock sucks
In addition to going with this a news with only one source, Whitlock also uses guilt by association with here with Boldin, Warner and Fitzgerald, implying that one if not all of them bad-mouthed Haley to Waters. (He names them as 3 Arizona players who were at the Pro Bowl.) None of any of this is corroborated by anybody. And yet the Star runs with it and readers get their panties in a bunch about it, when it may or may not even be accurate.
Fitzegerald has been spoken about how Haley helped take his game to another level.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeffri&id=3842683
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its hard to get two sides to a story
When one side won’t comment.
Assuming the source was Waters, ANY news org in the country would have run this story.
And yes, Whitlock mostly sucks, I agree…again, just b/c we don’t like the guy, doesn’t mean he’s incapable of putting out a very valid story.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't about getting the Chiefs side.
Good reporting requires at least one additional source to corroborate what’s being reported. Whitlock reported this as fact with no other source to support it. Hell, Whitlock could have made the whole thing up.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon, man
You can hate Whitlock if you want, but the guy is not making something like this up.
The Star’s editors cleared the story, and its sports page has won lots of awards…I’m not its biggest fan or supporter, but you couldn’t find a single newspaper in the country that wouldn’t print this, if as we’re assuming, the source is Waters, and the Chiefs wouldn’t comment.
by kcsno56 on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the point I'm making.
All I am saying is when news stories are allowed to be printed using only a single and unnamed source then those stories are inherently suspect to being inaccurate. I am saying Whitlock could have made it up since there is no source to back up the story.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Doubt It's Fabricated
Whitlock’s got no serious history of fabrication. We might disagree with his conclusions or dislike his opinions, but the man usually gets his facts straight (unlike Mortensen, who’s frequently wrong with his facts and who in one case reported information that his source later disputed).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not fabricated
but slanted and shaded to ellicit a particular negative response toward the new management at Arrowhead because they wont play ball with the media
by Lvl.99 on Feb 27, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Might Be
But the question was whether his facts on the event were wrong.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not suggesting that Whitlock made the whole thing up.
It seems likely to me that Waters fed the information to him (how would a third party have any idea what was spoken of in phone conversations between Haley and Waters?). What I am saying is when new stories are run using only one anonymous source then all bets are off regarding their accuracy. The reporter could make the whole thing up since there is only one source that is not named.
There’s no question that Whitlock is already starting to write negatively about the new Chiefs regime, but that’s always been his schtick.
He is clearly trying to imply that Boldin, Warner and Fitzgerald were ripping on Haley. Fitzgerald has been pretty open about Haley’s hard ass attitude helping him develop as a player.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haley isn't your best friend
Good—now it’s time to get to work! The SuperBowl path isn’t paved with roses you pansies! I could care less what Twitlock says, and apparently the Chiefs new regime could care less either. It’s time to hit the books and get working in the weight room. They aren’t here to make friends—they are here to win. I’m glad someone there finally figured out that hey we might need to actually win a game here and there. He’s a hard ass I like it—Last time I checked more hard ass folks=win more games. Parcells, Cowher, Haley (as OC), hell, even Lombardi wasn’t the players best friend. Yeah, the players loved Herm because they got their check with zero effort. Who wouldn’t want a job where I could walk the motions and collect my 10 mil? Sign my ass up!
by Ren on Feb 27, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's true that Waters fed this to Whitlock....
Then I say a major f*ck you to Waters. He would be clearly undermining the organization, trying to poison the locker room because he felt that he wasn’t coddled enough by Pioli and Haley.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He went to the Pro Bowl
On a 2-14 team. That really doesn’t say much and if I was Waters, I would be a bit disgraced joining players that produced on winning teams. Haley is right—Rockhurst HS could have posted a better record. No matter how good Waters is, he is 1 player there are 20 more (TG is good too) who played like crap. Waters needs to get out of being an individual and start acting like a teammate and learn that it takes more effort that those of one player to win. I would be pissed too if I was Haley. Pioli doesn’t need to open his door to anyone—he is the GM, not the coach.
by Ren on Feb 27, 2009 12:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He went to the Pro Bowl on a 2-14 team. That really doesn’t say much …
See, that’s where we disagree. I think that says a hell of a lot.
by JacinB on Feb 27, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this will light a fire in some people to produce
No probably not. The players feel they are “entitled” to come and go as they please—talk to whoever they want whenever they want and have zero discipline and work ethic. I am a 12 year veteran I don’t need to come to practice—you’re right the opposing team will cut you some slack and your body will automatically get in shape because you’ve done it for 12 years. Individuals are great for charity work, but suck when it comes to team sports. Pioli is starting the right way in BUILDING A TEAM. Haley is living up to his name—not taking shit from anyone.
by Ren on Feb 27, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Herm factor
These guys loved him so much that when his job was hanging by a thread they laid down like dogs especially in the Bengal game. The NFL is a job, a well paying one in a troubled to say the least economy. I will never begrudge a player any money they make but at the same time you have a job and you have an employer and they are not obligated to change your pampers or nurse your tender feelings. Or consult you.
And Whitlock is a dick and a snake. The Star is pissed they are shutout so this is what they will resort to. Oh well. Waters will show up and play or I’d fine is ass to the moon. I am happy there is finally a level of being accountable.
by FrankPitts on Feb 27, 2009 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't even want to read the rest of this tread....
to any of you so called faithful Chiefs fan who are siding with Haley, get a clue
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I remember a movie
where people didn’t agree with the system, and the coach came off as a jerk. Then, that team became a bunch of close kick-ass TEAM players that won a championship. Does “Remember the Titans” ring any bells to you?
by PDT962 on Feb 27, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hate that movie.
It’s based on a true story and yet not a single believable thing happens during the whole movie. The worst part is the 7 year old girl who knows more about football than Vince Lombardi. Just horrible.
by Rev. Slappy on Feb 27, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As One Pundit (I Think It Was Bill Simmons) Said Of The Girl In that Movie
She’s only that obsessive about football because it’s the only way she can get her dad to notice her…in ten years she’ll be sleeping with all of the football players on the team to get back at him.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
by UCrawford on Feb 27, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think just like TG
this guy should shut the fuck up and concentrate on football. He has no idea what’s in store for next season. He has no idea what the management and coaching people are doing. He should enjoy his time off and be ready to come back next season and kick some ass. I don’t think anyone at arrowhead has time to rub the player’s bellies or powder their butts right now because they have a shit-ton of work to do to assemble a complete staff, roster and plan for next year.
Vae Victis!
by Buck'O on Feb 27, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pioli and Haley? More of same -- Only Worse
This is pure ignorant arrogance on the part of Pioli and Haley to treat Waters this way.
Waters is one of the best Chiefs on the current roster. What possible advantage could be gained by treating a locker-room leader, who is a model citizen, in such a way?
Pioli and Haley haven’t accomplished anything yet. This isn’t Parcells or Belichek we’re talking about. What has Haley ever won on his own? He’s a golf coach. They’re a rookie tandem that already has more arrogance than King Carl.
Wasn’t one of the major criticisms of King Carl the way he treated the players? His arrogance? His refusal to admit a mistake?
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt but with this kind of arrogance I think Pioli and Haley are going to crash and burn. It’ll be the like the Frank Gansz years all over.
I’ll be happy to be wrong but I don’t think we’ll be seeing any kind of success with this leadership.
by Raisethefencesbackto12feet on Feb 28, 2009 10:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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