Chiefs Roster Moves Increase Salary Cap Space to $50 Million
by Joel Thorman on Feb 25, 2009 8:48 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Offseason
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PrintThe Tampa Bay Buccaneers lead the NFL with approximately $55 million in cap space entering the start of the 2009 league year on March 1st. The Kansas City Chiefs won't be far behind as they're projected to be under the salary cap by approximately $50 million.
Adam Teicher over at the Red Zone breaks down the cap savings yesterday:
- Patrick Surtain's 2009 cap hit was $9.73 million. His release two years early from a 7 year, $52 million contract signed 5 years ago brings his cap hit to $3.55 million. Cap savings: $6.18 million.
- Donnie Edwards' cap number for 2009 was $6.5 million. His released lowered that number to $1.1 million. Cap savings: $5.4 million.
- Damon Huard's contract 3 year, $7.5 million contract signed in 2007 called for a $2.9 million cap hit in 2009. His release reduces that number to $900,000. Cap savings: $2 million.
Yesterday's moves will take approximately $13.5 million off the books for 2009.
Since the Chiefs were already approximately $37 million under the cap, this brings their salary cap space to a shade over $50 million.
There is also a minimum the Chiefs MUST spend to comply with the salary cap rules. The minimum is 86.% of the salary cap according to Ask The Commish. That means the Chiefs must spend approximately $106 million on the players.
This means that the Chiefs are looking at spending at least $33 million of cap space in 2009. Some of that will come free agents and some of that will go to players currently on the team.
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of that $33 million
could they call it bailout money and send a little our way?
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Free tickets to Jackson County residents
would be nice… Since we pay for their staduim and all…
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
+1
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
Who on the team might that money go to?
Who’s about to be in a contract year, if anyone? I know DJ is, but aside from him, I’m not sure of anyone else that’s due up or asking for a restructure/new deal.
I’m thinking that the new cap money is going to be more for the draft than free agency. I’m really starting to come around to thinking the Chiefs are going quarterback with the #3 pick. OL and LB is a fairly deep talent that can be addressed after the 1st round, and the ultimate goal is to NOT be picking in the top 5/10/15 due to poor play resulting in many losses. With that, you have to think that this may be one of the few times the Chiefs will be picking this high in the foreseeable future.
It could also be to make room for Cassel, but I don’t see Pioli and Bellichik wanting to make a deal with each other just yet. Both sides would want to feel like they came out ahead, and underpaid/underdelivered. I don’t see that happening.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
Correct me if I'm wrong..
I remember reading awhile ago that Page was getting near a new contract. It might have been Sports Illustrated or rather something I read online but I know for a fact that I remember reading about how he is one of the most underpaid starting safeties in the league. I know we drafted Morgan last year to to help play out a position battle but I’ve liked Page since he was drafted and I think we got a steal of a deal seeing how he was drafted so late and plays so much for us. He hits hard and I remember him making plays when the game was on the line. (Interception vs. Oakland). Sooner or later I think offenses will be noticing more of him and game planning around him.
I’d like to see him get some more money. To me, he deserves it. Just throwing that out.
I'm never working for this guy again.
He should get paid more, but not much
I agree Page is playing above his pay level but I wouldn’t say he give offenses nightmares or anything. He and Pollard both misread plays and get burned pretty often. I’d be okay with bumping Pages pay, but by no means should he expect to paid like a top 5 (or even 10) safety. He’s starting material, not Pro Bowl material.
by Chiefs4Life on Feb 25, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Yes I did
Thanks for catching that. I posted then stepped out for a bit.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 25, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Question
Does anybody know what would happen to our cap space or what kind of a cap hit we would take if we traded versus outright cut LJ? I am not so sure either is going to happen, but I am just curious.
by ryan_andersen98 on Feb 25, 2009 10:29 AM CST reply actions
LETS WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS....
IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. HONESTLY WITH THE CHIEFS CHANGING DEFENSE, I WOULD SEE THEM GOING AFTER CURRY AS THE 3RD ROUND PICK, THEN FOCUSING ON MAYBE AN OT IN THE SECOND ROUND. AFTER THAT ITS PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER ELSE IS THE NEXT NEED. I JUST DONT SEE THE QB’S STANDING OUT THAT MUCH THIS YEAR TO GO AFTER ANYONE. I CAN SEE THEM MAYBE GOING AFTER A FREE AGENT QB TO BIDE TIME TIL NEXT YEARS DRAFT WHICH WILL BE FULL OF QB’S. I CAN ALSO SEE US GETTING A FEW DEFENSE’S FREE AGENTS SUCH AS LINE BACKERS AND MAYBE A SAFETY. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS BUT WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE BEFORE WE CAN TRUELY SPECULATE.
SENTENCE POLICE ARE COMING
I’M NOT YELLING, I JUST TALK REALLY LOUDLY AND HAVE TO REFLECT THAT IN MY POSTS.
JUST FOR EFFECT, I’M GOING TO BOLD THIS ALSO BECAUSE THAT ROCKS.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
Lets bet back to the subject.
Does anyone disagree and think the chiefs will go after a QB in first round. If so, why?
Keep in mind Scott Pioli’s background.
Yep
look at my first comment to the topic above:
I’m really starting to come around to thinking the Chiefs are going quarterback with the #3 pick
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
But what leads you to think that? You know Detroit is going to take a QB (they have stated that they will be taking a QB in the first pick) so that leaves the Chiefs with basicaly the left over option of what is left. Are those remaining options worth paying the big bucks would be the big question?
by Superkyle75 on Feb 25, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
You know Detroit is going to take a QB (they have stated that they will be taking a QB in the first pick) so that leaves the Chiefs with basicaly the left over option of what is left.
Haven’t heard that. Detroit has a TON of holes. QB being just one of many. I am starting to think Detroit won’t take a QB.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 25, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Right PT,
and wasn’t there some quote or something that said Detroit was NOT taking QB with the first pick? I’m fixing to leave so I can’t dig it up, but I figure they’ll go OT.
If Stafford and Sanchez are both there, I think the Chiefs take whichever they like the best. OL and LB (as I said above) are a deep talent this year in the draft, and taking the gamble on a QB with a new head coach and GM is going to almost be a given I think… Especially considering they basically get a “pass” on this year as long as they win 3 or more games.
All I have to say is "Thank you, Clark."
Me to i have been saying all week
they will take curry or jason smith one of the two and ill most likely be taking a flight to punch pioli in the baby maker.
by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
If chiefs go qb #3
I will personally take a flight from cali to kc and punch pioli right in the baby maker
by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
QB in first round?
I’ll personally be very surprised if Pioli takes a QB in the first round. Although, Scott is a difficult man to predict so maybe that’s not saying much.
I Don't Think He'll Do It
Not unless there’s a Manning type that’s available…basically a can’t miss guy. There’s nobody in this draft class that fits that mold. Not even the top two QBs. I think he’ll go line or linebacker.
Have the Chiefs announced who their DC is yet and I missed it?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
ya we need to announce the dc
so i can sleep at night
by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm Just Curious
Mainly because it’ll give us an idea who the Chiefs will target in free agency. If they go 4-3, maybe they will go after Haynesworth. If they go 3-4, maybe they’ll grab Lewis and Vilma. Unlike a lot of teams, they’ve got money to spend right now.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
ya good point ucrawford
I need to know what the hell the chiefs are going to run
by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Mark it UC
we’re trading down. I’m thinking that Pioli will get some additional picks. It’s jus a gut feeling and I’ve been going back and forth on a pick, I don’t see Pioli committing to someone unless it’s someone he’s definitely sold on…but who knows.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Dallas, Washington
Those with owners with money in the bank. Also, Philly wouldn’t surprise me.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I Don't See A Trade-Down Happening
First, because they almost never happen with top five picks. Second, because we’re not going to get value for it. The only team that’s got something good to offer us is Philly (two first rounders), and they don’t have any needs serious enough to want to trade up and several that could be addressed by their two first-round picks. I think the Chiefs will be drafting at the third pick and I suspect they’ll be grabbing either a lineman (offense or defense) or linebacker.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Two names
Jones and Snyder….Children of the Corn.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
trading down would be awsome but
we couldent even trade down last year with #5 It would be nice i dont see it happening when o line man are the best picks in the draft.
by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I have a feeling
that the new DC will be anounced several hours before FA kicks off. I’m calling it now.
Thats the call
look for the announcement after 10pm…lol
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Here's the thing.
Detroit does need some offensive line help and defensive help. However the big hype that Andre Smith had before the combine has not faded and pushed him further down the draft board because of his non showing. Yes, we still have another pro day down the road for players to make up for thing. But it has been stated many times on espn that Detroit needs a Franchise QB. Either way, I just feel the Pioli is a big defensive minded guy and feels more comfortable with the risk of a high pick defense guy like Curry rather then the risk of say Sanchez who only has 1 college season under his belt of playing and Stafford who just doesnt seem to fit into the spread type offense that we have in place to be the risk of paying the big bucks too. Yes the offense is going to look a little different with Haley here, but I think the reason why Chan is still here is because he did bring some change and adaptation abilities to Thigpins type of offense. So with that, I just feel that this is not the year or time to draft high with QB. Its just my thoughts.
You forget
Detroit is owned by the Ford’s. We’re in an economic slump and the auto industry is hurting. There would be a lot of backlash at the family considering the folks unemployed there as well as the bailout for Ford Motor Co. Detroit isn’t going to spend that kind of cash on a QB #1.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
That's Just Silly, Truth
Football is football and Ford Motors is Ford Motors. The federal government and fans are not going to step in and demand that the Lions not draft a QB because it would cost too much in salary. Hell, they might as well say the Lions shouldn’t be able to draft anyone with the first pick because anyone drafted that high would cost too much. You know I respect what you have to say and generally find most of your comments spot on, but that’s a pretty ridiculous argument…the Lions are not going to pass on the player they want because they’re worried about public backlash about his contract. Hell, if the bailout has taught us anything it’s that the Lions are more likely to draft the player likely to cost them the most cash because the Ford family thinks their business is unsinkable.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I have to disagree
The fact remains that the Detroit franchsie is in shambles in more ways than just what Millen left them in. Having had the opoprtunity to travel to Detroit and talk to the fans there, it’s night and day compared to many other cities in the U.S. Right now, football is the least of their concerns. Ford has a reputation to uphold and paying that kind of exhorbitant cash for a #1 QB isn’t going to be smart and he understands that. Secondly, the fans there are having a hard time putting money together for bare essentials let alone season tickets. Football is the last thing on their mind(s).
Just because some of us in cities haven’t felt the vast burden of the economy on our backs (to Detroits extent) doesn’t mean that a city like Detroit, who’s hurting leaps and bounds due to the strong auto presence isn’t getting hit the worst.
We’ll see, I don’t se a QB going there. Ford doesn’t need or want to spend that kind of cash on a #1 QB prospect and have empty seats (which is inevitable). Secondly, fans aren’t eager to hear about getting ANOTHER potential QB there making boo-coo bucks while they are getting unemployment checks and lastly, Ford understands that going ape-shit on spending isn’t going to make himself look better or his franchise perform to a degree where fans spend their money….since the money isn’t available to spend.
For those that have been to games at the Dome, you’d be surprised at the UAW bumper stickers on the majority of cars…just saying. Matter of fact, during the auto industries hey-day (see Barry Sanders era), they could have saved Union money by having meetings in the parking lot.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
They May Not Draft A QB With The First Pick
But it won’t have anything to do with them sweating his contract…it’ll be because they don’t want to spend the top pick in the draft on any of the individual QBs in this draft.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Ummm
Ford doesn’t need or want to spend that kind of cash on a #1 QB prospect and have empty seats (which is inevitable).
And you think this is going to change with whoever else they decide to draft? Whoever they draft will be getting a huge contract for playing in front of an empty house. That’s just life in Detroit, because their team has sucked for so long.
Secondly, fans aren’t eager to hear about getting ANOTHER potential QB there making boo-coo bucks while they are getting unemployment checks and lastly, Ford understands that going ape-shit on spending isn’t going to make himself look better or his franchise perform to a degree where fans spend their money….since the money isn’t available to spend.
First, unemployed people who whine about how much pro football player make are morons. Seriously, they’re stupid people. Hypothetically speaking, if you’re a unemployed auto worker, how much money Matt Stafford or Eugene Monroe gets in 2009 has absolutely no bearing on what you make in your profession or why you don’t have a job (that’s relative wealth whining and it’s for socialist pussies). And if you’re that hypothetical unemployed auto worker whining about how Stafford or Monroe are making all this money then a) you’re probably a hypocrite, because I didn’t hear auto workers complaining about how their unions were driving up costs for automakers with higher-than-market salaries and poorly designed pension plans or offering to work for free to keep the car companies solvent, b) you’re definitely an idiot, because if you’re unemployed and you’re choosing to spend your time whining to teams about other peoples’ salaries instead of looking for a job then you’ve got screwed up priorities no one to blame but yourself for being broke because obviously you’re not spending enough time looking for a new job, and c) the Detroit Lions aren’t going to give a damn what any of you have to say because you’re fucking broke and unemployed and broke, unemployed people rarely buy tickets for football games anyway so why should the Lions care?
Successful football teams are generally not built by listening to broke, unemployed, stupid people who are have nothing constructive to add…which is exactly the kind of hypothetical critic you described in your example.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Now
Who are you, what have you done with Truth, and how did you get access to his account?
:)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I'm a kinder, gentler one than some are towards UAW workers I guess :)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Sorry, But
I hate unions and I just see this as the inevitable process of creative destruction in our economy…which is a good and important thing.
And any sympathy I might have felt for the auto workers who lost their jobs immediately disappeared once they started using the money I pay in taxes to prop up the shitty companies that employ them. They can have my sympathy or they can have my tax dollars, but they can’t have both.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
They can't have both
I feel the same way but shouldn’t your distaste be more geared at the company/unions than the workers.
I agree though, I don’t like the fact of good money chasing bad money. They should have been forced to go bankrupt so they could restructure those legacy costs.
It Is
But then the autoworkers are on the union’s side…they’re out there demanding bailout money too. So they’re inseparable from the union.
If the government really wants to save jobs (and the economy) they’ll let Ford, GM, and Chrysler go bankrupt so someone else can buy their plants and assets, get rid of the union obligations and produce cars without the burden of the Big 3’s legacy costs (which would probably get many of those workers rehired). But the government just won’t let that happen…because most of those Congressmen haven’t got the first clue of how markets work and they’re not interested in fixing the problem, they’re only interested in taking credit by pretending to fix the problem (with a government program that will actually make things worse).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Here here
Politicians suck ass. They never do the right thing, they only do what makes them look GOOD or what is in their (Lobbiers) best interest.
If the government really wants to save jobs (and the economy) they’ll let Ford, GM, and Chrysler go bankrupt so someone else can buy their plants and assets
I’m sure there’s some middle eastern oil barons willing to do that in a heart-beat. It would be a win-win for them. Gas and cars.
because most of those Congressmen haven’t got the first clue of how markets work and they’re not interested in fixing the problem,
They don’t need to in this case….let me say that again “in this case”. The bailout was a LOAN. The big 3 have to repay it and it’s up to them to figure out THE way. If they don’t than the big 3 will either go away or become state property…which is screwed either way.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
HA
I’m sure there’s some middle eastern oil barons willing to do that in a heart-beat. It would be a win-win for them. Gas and cars.
Great, I say let them. I’ve got nothing at all against oil barons…Middle Eastern or otherwise. All I care about is buying the best possible car for me for the best possible price. And right now that car isn’t made in Detroit.
The bailout was a LOAN. The big 3 have to repay it and it’s up to them to figure out THE way.
And what, exactly, are the odds that a business hemorraging money and teetering on bankruptcy is going to pay back a multi-billion dollar loan?
Would you invest your money with Ford, Chrysler and GM right now?
If they don’t than the big 3 will either go away
What, you mean like what would happen if the government didn’t throw billions of our dollars at them? Don’t need a bailout to make that happen.
or become state property
Wow, what a great idea…because the state does such a great job at running the things it’s already responsible for. State car companies are awesome. Just ask the Soviet Union…you could buy your cars there in any color you wanted, as long as it was white or black.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I don't even need to comment at anything else
Great, I say let them. I’ve got nothing at all against oil barons…Middle Eastern or otherwise. All I care about is buying the best possible car for me for the best possible price. And right now that car isn’t made in Detroit.
and damn the torpedo’s…that’s sad dude.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
What Have You Got Against Middle Easterners?
I’m assuming that you buy their gas, same as I do. I don’t have any more animosity towards them than I do towards Wal-Mart. And I’ve been to their part of the world twice (once to fight a war).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I just hope you aint got nutin against middle southerners :)
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
I've Got Nothing Against Anyone Who Acts In Their Own Best Interests
As long as they’re not forcibly imposing their choices on me. Last I checked, nobody forced me to buy a truck and fill it up with gas from the Middle East. I’ve got a bicycle I could be riding to work if I wanted to go off the grid.
By the way, as far as Middle Eastern oil goes, I’ve tended to notice a nasty streak of paternalism in people who beat the drum against them. Rhetoric like “They’re overcharging us for our oil, I mean” or "They’re monopolizing the world’s oil supply…both of which are economically incorrect and both of which imply that we have greater claim to their oil than they do. That kind of attitude (and our tendency to go to the gun when they don’t bow to our will) is why we keep getting sucked into their screwed up internal squabbles. We’re just customers of their oil…they own it. So, they can do what they want with it and charge whatever price they want for it.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I have a problem
With the idea that one group would control both the oil industry as well as the auto industry. To me that’s a monopoly of epic proportions that would cripple the world economic balance to a degree we’ve never seen.
We’ve finally gotten to a point (given 20 years late) where MPG’s (on some vehicles) are getting to a reasonable level although we have a long way to go. I think the government is specifically to blame for poor auto gas performance due to the lobbyists paying off the politicans so that gas guzzlers would continue to use foreign oil while the sheiks line their pockets with profits due to poor mileage.
A politician could care less whether a gallon is $1 or $10 unless it affects their re-election. Here’s my point. Can we all agree that the same processing is used to get gasoline (for the most part)?
Than how do you explain this Given, those prices are old, but look at the vast difference. Here is a list of more accurate current numbers.
In addition, let’s not include demand or tax on the aforementioend therefor the drastic difference in pricing cannot be soley contributed to refining.
My point is that if we allowed one group controlling both we’re looking at an even greater imbalance…and it’s obvious who they are on the list (see the bottom of the list from the first link).
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
therefor the drastic difference in pricing cannot be soley contributed to refining.
…my point there was that this is an excuse used. The price of refining is being used over and over as to why our prices had gone/have been going up.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear…that was the intent.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Free Market Monopolies Are A Myth
The only way in which a harmful monopoly (meaning one that can freeze all competitors out of a market and charge any price they like) can occur is with government intervention…meaning government creates the barriers to entry to keep them out. I don’t care if the al-Saud family buys Chrysler. Know why? Because they still have to compete with every other car company in the world on price for vehicles, they’re still going to sell their oil to owners of every other type of car (because they can’t make optimal revenue off of just selling it to owners of Chrysler), and if they ever tried to jack up the price of oil beyond what the market will bear all that would do is make alternative fuels economically viable and lose their market altogether (which is part of why they increased output when oil went through the roof last summer).
Than how do you explain this
Easy, supply and demand plus government interference in markets…gas is subsidized in Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait by the governments which is why it’s so cheap there. Same as it’s taxed heavily in the U.K., which is why it’s so expensive there. In a lot of the other countries where gas is cheap, it’s because of low demand (not a lot of traffic congestion in Ghana) so there’s a limit to what vendors can charge and still sell the product. Prices vary between countries because countries don’t have the same energy policies, nor do they all have the same demand (or supply).
I’m not really sure what you’re trying to get at here…aside from saying that refining is not the only reason gas prices vary (which I wasn’t arguing).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
What?
I’m sure there’s some middle eastern oil barons willing to do that in a heart-beat. It would be a win-win for them. Gas and cars.
First of all, why would they (barons) want to buy up those shitty assets. Its not like the Oil Baron’s no how to make good cars and they would have an iron fist control over both oil and cars. Even if they did theoretically buy up those assets, what is your fear? That they would make more gas guzzling cars to help out their other industry? That doesn’t make any sense considering the market has now shifted to a more efficient standard. If they wanted to sell good cars they would at least have to have good MPG.
Second, OUR government would OWN them if they fail. IMO this is the worst scenario b/c we don’t want Govt to control any kind of private entity or industry. If the Big 3 do fail, then most likely they would consolidate.
If they don’t than the big 3 will either go away or become state property
Very good Comrade! That’s exactly what we don’t want.
by JZChiefsfan on Feb 26, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Even if they did theoretically buy up those assets, what is your fear?
Read, my post again…it’s called a monopoly.
That doesn’t make any sense considering the market has now shifted to a more efficient standard. If they wanted to sell good cars they would at least have to have good MPG.Nope. That’s not what a Monopoly is all about. They don’t have to do anything like that….that’s why it’s a monopoly.
Second, OUR government would OWN them if they fail. IMO this is the worst scenario b/c we don’t want Govt to control any kind of private entity or industry. If the Big 3 do fail, then most likely they would consolidate.Huh? Own who if they fail? The Oil barons according to your argument? Consolidate? How can they consolidate if they’re out of business….btw, that’s called a monopoly as well.
Very good Comrade! That’s exactly what we don’t want.No, no. Keep your socialist tendencies away. You’re not helping UC argument.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Monopoly
That’s why the Government is there. To prevent monopolization. The Govt wouldn’t let that happen. Even if they did allow some private equity or baron buy up some part of the big 3 how would it become a monopoly? Toyota has just about eclipsed GM as the #1 leader in market share. Honda and Hyundai are starting to take up a lot more of it as well. So if you’re thinking that poorly run GM, Ford, Chrysler would be allowed by our Govt to be bought out by Oil Barrons to form a, “Monopoly of epic proportions”, I think you’re wrong. It’s not like they would CONTROL the market. So how would they be a Monopoly?
Huh? Own who if they fail? The Oil barons according to your argument? Consolidate? How can they consolidate if they’re out of business….btw, that’s called a monopoly as well.
I was saying that our Govt will own the Big 3 if they fail, not the Oil Barons. And yes once they fail the Govt will let all or a portion of the Big 3 consolidate or be bought out by some other CAR manufacturer b/c that would be the IDEAL competent firm to buy up those assets. The government wouldn’t sell the car companies to some firm that doesn’t know how to run a car manufacturer. That wouldn’t make sense.
You know we do agree on one thing. I don’t like how the excuses for the refinement process works as well. And that lobbyist have control over our politicians.
You can't blame the workers for poor management
They can have my sympathy or they can have my tax dollars, but they can’t have both.
that would be like me blaming AP for your posts….totally kidding dude. Trying to light a little comedy in here.
I’m a card carrying cynic, but I realize that corporations like Enron, Sprint and the auto industry (Ford, Chrysler, GM, Delco) are run by the crooked who don’t see past their own portfolio’s. I OTOH, sympathize with the workers (union or not) since they are directly affected and it has nothing to do with their work ethic. The management and share holders (minority) aren’t going to be affected except that they might have to sell 1 of their 10 homes.
When I read Goodell taking a 20% pay-cut, that means nothing to me except for the fact that it’s a direct reflection of the hundreds of jobs ended by the front office folks in the NFL that make average salaries. Do we blame the NFL owners or players? No one is telling the players to take a 2% (not mistyped) cut to help keep the NFL front office folks employed…or even better, the owners to make cuts to keep those folks employed
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Of Course I Can
Unions are complicit in management’s failure and the crippling legacy costs (because unions are given power from union-funded politicians, meaning that much of their collective bargaining is coercive in nature). And the workers support the union, so they’re equally complicit. At least those who are union members are. For those who aren’t members and who aren’t demanding a bailout…you have my sympathies and I exempt you from my rant.
I’m a card carrying cynic, but I realize that corporations like Enron, Sprint and the auto industry (Ford, Chrysler, GM, Delco) are run by the crooked who don’t see past their own portfolio’s.
An inaccurate blanket statement that you’re applying to three completely different examples. Enron was fraud, the auto industry was government-enabled mismanagement, Sprint was basic mismanagement. And there is nothing wrong with CEOs who care about the bottom line, as long as they’re operating in a manner where they’re not defrauding their shareholders or taking other peoples’ money coercively. I do not accept the premise of them being automatically evil…that is a common attack from people who fail to understand the basic economic theory of creative destruction. Most companies face collapse eventually as the world changes.
If you’re interested in a layman’s introduction to what I’m talking about, go rent the movie “Other People’s Money” with Danny DeVito (where he plays a businessman looking to buy a failing wire and cable business in New England so he can break it up and sell it off). Or just watch these two speeches from the climax point of the film…extremely unusual for Hollywood, they accurately portray both sides of the argument on Joseph Schumpeter’s economic theory of “creative destruction”.
Or go buy a copy of economist Milton Friedman’s “Free To Choose”…he explains all of this stuff.
The management and share holders (minority) aren’t going to be affected except that they might have to sell 1 of their 10 homes.
I actually work in banking. It’s not just rich people who own stock…it’s middle class people too, looking to earn for the future. And they’re getting wiped out by this. It’s your neighbors and friends. They’re losing their retirements, and their homes, and their life savings…many of them won’t get that money back. They invested in those companies with the implicit promise from that company that it would do its best to give the best return and capably manage their investment. And they’re going broke thanks to management’s poor decisions and union’s coercive (meaning “government-backed”) bargaining methods. And now, when the smart decision is to let those companies go under so the shareholders can recoup some of their losses or even make a profit (as they should be able to do) they’re getting screwed by the government who are keeping that same bad management in place (or, even worse, threatening to nationalize those industries so even worse management can take over) so they can’t make a profit.
Those are the people I care about…the ones who actually own the business (the shareholders). People who lose their jobs can find another job pretty easily (even if it’s not a job they particularly like). People who lose their life savings when the government won’t let the business they invested in get broken down and sold off as it should don’t get their life savings back…unless the government decides to give it to them by taking it from other people (which is just as wrong).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
An inaccurate blanket statement that you’re applying to three completely different examples.
So what? I can use any examples I want…I’ll include TWA, Eastern and Pan AM just to throw another industry in there. Who are you to decide who uses what examples?
Enron was fraud, the auto industry was government-enabled mismanagement, Sprint was basic mismanagement
Again, so what? Geez UC the common denominator is inept and crooked CEO’s.
I actually work in banking. It’s not just rich people who own stock…it’s middle class people too, looking to earn for the future. And they’re getting wiped out by this…..
Really? Seriously dude, you think most people don’t understand that?So you’re comparing my neighbors and friends to people that make 4 million dollar bonus’ yet their company is in the red? I think you’re stating the obvious and missing the point. The rich aren’t going to hurt over losing 1 out of 10 homes….the middle class will hurt when they lose 1 out of 1.
People who lose their jobs can find another job pretty easily (even if it’s not a job they particularly like).
A pretty generalized statement that is pure inuendo. You got any stats to back that up? How pray tell do you distinguish finding a job “pretty easy”? You can’t.
I’m done ranting and rebutting your points. I respect your opinion and I hope you can respect mine. There’s some things we jsut don’t agree upon. Specifically the workforce and leadership. I just hope there aren’t that many of those that don’t care who we sell-out too….specifically your post above.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Huh?
So what? I can use any examples I want
Fine…but if you want the argument to be taken seriously, you need to use examples that are related. You’ve never heard of an apples-to-oranges comparison? All you’re doing is bitching about “evil” CEOs because of three different businesses that failed for three different reasons, only one of which involved the CEO being “evil” (Enron…because Ken Lay was actually defrauding the shareholders by issuing false financial statements). Mismanagement is simply incompetence, not criminal activity…not the CEOs trying to screw everyone in the business.
And no, I don’t consider layoffs of employees to be crooked behavior. A CEO is responsible first and foremost to the shareholders, because they’re the owners and he was hired to run the business for the owners. If the workers get laid off because the company has too many people to stay solvent that’s too bad for the workers, but the CEO who fired them is just doing the job he was supposed to do. If the workers don’t like the reality of ownership, then maybe they should try and start their own businesses instead of working for someone else…then they can be the ones making the decisions about who gets hired or fired.
So you’re comparing my neighbors and friends to people that make 4 million dollar bonus’ yet their company is in the red?
What, CEO’s? Their bonuses are often contractual…or if they aren’t, they’re voted on by the shareholders (the owners). I don’t have a problem with CEO bonuses at all.
If you’re asking if I think rich people are somehow more deserving of losing their money than middle class people, then my answer is no. I don’t believe that social class should determine the kind of return investors get…risk and investment should. Frankly, I’ve got nothing against rich people…they’re the ones who drive most of the investment in this country (which creates new jobs and new businesses).
A pretty generalized statement that is pure inuendo.
So you’re saying that if you lose your job, you’re going to sit on your ass waiting for a check for the government? Or are you going to go look for a new job? If I lost mine, I’d be finding some way to pay the bills…whether it’s moving furniture like I did back in high school, working on an assembly line like I did in college, or going back to work for the government (in a legitimate job). What I won’t do is sit around waiting for someone else to fix my problems for me…which is what all workers demanding the bailout are doing. I might end up in a shitty job that I hate, but I won’t be starving to death and I won’t be taking a handout stolen from someone else.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I don’t have a problem with CEO bonuses at all.
I do when the company is in the red yet employees are cut.
So you’re saying that if you lose your job, you’re going to sit on your ass waiting for a check for the government?
Nope, I was commenting on your post about “easily finding jobs”. That’s pure speculation. That’s like saying the 8mil. unemployed are lazy because they aren’t looking for a job because according to you, they are easy to find. That’s how your comment was interpreted/implied. Like it or not I think the majority of folks are actively looking for jobs. Matter of fact I think the job market is strained and there isn’t anything “easy” about finding another job.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I Should Rephrase
I do when the company is in the red yet employees are cut.
If I’m a shareholder, I don’t care about workers getting cut. Workers can move to new jobs. I didn’t become a shareholder so I can provide lifelong employment for someone, I became a shareholder because I wanted to make money. Someone getting a job out of the deal is just icing on the cake. And if their continued employment isn’t conducive to the long-term health of the company (and my financial portfolio) I don’t care if the company cuts back.
Are those workers paying me back the difference in my portfolio when the price of stock plummets and I lose money? If not, then why do I care whether they keep their job when it’s costing me money and not giving me any return?
That’s like saying the 8mil. unemployed are lazy because they aren’t looking for a job because according to you
No, what I’m saying is that it’s not the same 8 million people every week who don’t have a job…most of those people who are unemployed are only temporarily unemployed because they’re in the process of getting a new job. The media portrays it like it’s the same 8 million individuals week in and week out waiting in a bread line. It’s a common misconception that progressive liberals and lazy journalists love to push…progressives because it makes people listen to their idiotic economic ideas, journalists because it fills space in newspapers without them having to justify their numbers. Now when labor is at a surplus, it might take the unemployed a little longer to find gainful employment, but they’ll eventually find it…it just may not be the job they think is ideal for them or that was their first option or that makes the salary they’d prefer, which is too bad but then that’s just life. But if they want a job, they’ll find one.
Now, there are some people out there who are always going to stay unemployed…the homeless, the insane, the lazy. I don’t care about those people, at least not enough to have the government get involved (that’s what private charity is for).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
What I won’t do is sit around waiting for someone else to fix my problems for me…which is what all workers demanding the bailout are doing.
You really believe that? Wow. I just don’t see the American worker in that light. Matter of fact, I don’t think most Americans view their compatriots that way either.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
I Don't See The "American Worker" Like That Either
Only the ones demanding bailout money. I’ve got nothing against the people who lost their job and decided to get on with life and find a new job without demanding a handout. In fact, I hope they find a better job.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Damn UC
You hit it right on the head. That’s exactly how I feel. I don’t think people are going to have any influence on how the Lions draft. People keep saying how they won’t take a QB at #1 due to his pay. HOW MUCH MORE is a QB at #1 gonna get compared to an OT at #1. It’s going to be WHAT a few million more? Regardless of position the #1 pick is going to make an astronomical amount of money.
As of right now, the Lions don’t have anyone going to their games anyway. IF anything the Lions need to make a SPLASH in the draft and FA to get their fans to come back. The best way they can do this is by taking a QB at #1 and OT at #20. This is there future offense considering they already have Calvin Johnson, Kevin Smith, and Gosder Cherilus (RT). They have plenty more picks in the draft to land guys on their defense.
It's not just the pay.
It’s the return on investment for the #1 overall pick. QB’s are viewed as a riskier choice because of how often they turn out to suck, whereas linemen are considered safer prospects and more likely to be worth the money they were paid.
And A Very Good Running Back In Kevin Smith
Seriously…JZChiefs is right, the Lions have some good pieces in place for that offense. Kevin Smith quietly had a very nice season for Detroit (would have broken 1000 yards if the Lions hadn’t wasted so many carries on Rudi Johnson). He’s got good power and speed and he’s a good receiving threat. Calvin Johnson is probably the best wide receiver in the league right now (yes, better than Larry Fitzgerald). If they upgrade the o-line and get a decent QB that offense has the chance to be scoring 30 points a game this season. So I could see them grabbing Stafford at number one. I could also see them grabbing a lineman with the first pick and a defensive player with #20 pick. That Roy Williams trade gave them a lot of options, so they can take some risks.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I understand the risk involved
but they are in a position to land the #1 QB on the board and still be able to land a top OT (William Beatty, Eben Britton). I don’t see them able to land a quality QB the other way around.
Some would argue that the ROI would be far greater if Stafford truly can be a franchise QB b/c of how hard franchise QB’s are to come by. That’s why they say you can’t pass on one. The Lions are in more of a need at the QB position than they are at OT. They have Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus at OT, plus the #20 pick to land a replacement for Backus if they throw Backus in at OG. They have Culpepper who is just a stop gap QB.
Yes the ROI for OT is great and an OT provides great value over a long period of time. But I would argue that you are going to get a higher return from a Franchise QB. After all risk and return are correlated. Higher the risk, higher the return. And if you have a dire need for the future of your program at the most important position on the field (QB), which the Lions do, you take that risk.
All good points
But, I disagree on one thing.
They CAN get a quality QB the other way around. They use their #1 pick for an OT, and trade their #20 for Matt Cassel.
Of course, this is just me hoping the Pats land an extra first rounder =)
A Wise Hope
And, frankly, not a bad idea for the Lions or the Pats. The Lions have a great WR1 (Megatron) and a serviceable WR2 (McDonald) as well as a young stud running back They just need a better line (which they can upgrade with that first pick and their second rounder) and a good QB (which I think Cassel probably is). And the Pats need to deal Cassel so they’re not tying up $30 million in cap space at one position.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Definitely agree
all good points but with their recent history I would think that the safer pick would be wiser than flopping on another QB. I think they should go best OL w/ the 1st overall and best Defensive player available @ 20 and @ 32 b/c they have alot of holes to fill.
When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.
I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title
I Think That Would Be Good Too
My point wasn’t meant to be that they should or shouldn’t take a QB with their first pick, it was just that they won’t shy away from taking one simply because of the contract he’d get because any top pick is going to get a huge contract and there are always going to be idiots who complain about football players’ contracts out of jealousy.
If it were me running the Lions, I’d go OT (because I think that’s the best player available) and try and trade that #20 pick for Cassel, then address defense with the 2nd rounder.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Exactly right
the question would be how much the Lions are willing to spend…or more to the point not spend.
Like I’ve stated before, I don’t see their salary cap spending being enormous.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Espn, and others
are reporting that they are in the running for Albert Haynesworth. I would say that they are willing to spend some money.
Ahhh...the biased factor
Hell you’re right they could do that. Poor Cassel. I just hope that the Lions and Rams stick to my biased script and take both QB/OT so we can take my boy Curry!
And you think this is going to change with whoever else they decide to draft? Whoever they draft will be getting a huge contract for playing in front of an empty house. That’s just life in Detroit, because their team has sucked for so long.
Not #1 QB money…big difference.
First, unemployed people who whine about how much pro football player make are morons. Seriously, they’re stupid people….
I won’t quote your entire rant, but it basically states the same thing. That wasn’t mypoint. What I’m saying is that an unemployed person from the AUTO industry which is the bread and butter of Detroit isn’t going to really be thrilled with getting the boot and having his former employer busting on a QB that might sit on the bench for 2 seasons before he gets to start.
Go talk to some former Sprint employees and see how they feel about the “Sprint Center” in KC and “Sprint” putting millions into NASCAR. They can’t stand Sprint or their executives that just got bonus’ btw. Same thing with Ford. Regardless of how you feel, Ford = automobile industry as well as Ford = Lions in Detroit…in the eyes of many Detroit fans although that’s not entirely accurate.
Ford will be trying to save face and if you want, we can debate this after the draft and the FA signings. My belief is that their cap is going to be one of the if not lowest caps in the league. He doesn’t need any more bad publicity for the family.
Drafting a player on O or D and having him play for less money than a #1 QB from the start is the point….or even trading the pick
This pretty much surmises it:
http://www.examiner.com/x-1247-Sports-Examiner~y2008m12d6-Congress-needs-to-bailout-Detroit-Lions-fans
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
From the link:
With support from some of the local politicians and pressure from taxpayers around the country, Michiganders can present a scenario to Congress that includes the Fords being required to sell the Lions if they are included in any bailout.
So let them spend millions on a QB…not
The Lions are part of the Ford family’s portfolio and it is absurd to allow them to maintain an entity like the Lions in their portfolio while agreeing to hand over billions of tax dollars to save their auto company’s sinking ship.
Yep, roger, wilco
If Joe Citizen is in desperate financial shape and asks a bank to bail them out of a foreclosure on their home, shouldn’t that bank make them sell his Bentley and second home on the ocean first? Even though the Bentley is not related to the house going into foreclosure, it is part of that family’s portfolio. Don’t get me wrong, the Lions are more like a rusted-out Yugo but you get my point
.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
The Article Had Nothing To Do With Your Argument
The author wasn’t talking about the draft. He was talking about the bailout and how the Fords should be forced to sell the Lions as a condition for accepting federal funds. He just wants the Fords gone…he doesn’t give a shit who they draft. They could draft a guy they can sign for a dollar and the author would still want the Fords gone. Because they suck as owners (a point I’m not disputing).
It has nothing to do with who the unemployed masses want the Lions to draft.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
You know this is a touchy situation...
Yes Ford is in T-R-O-U-B-L-E! And I would say that both the parent and the subsidiary(Lions) were both POORLY managed as they both lacked the forsight, vision, and management skills to run a competitive company. But you’re saying that b/c of the poor business model (pensions, poor quality, lack of innovation to stay ahead of consumer demand and the industry) that the subsidiary should adjust its business/football strategy to accommodate a separate division to save face.
The difference(Few million) in paying Matt Stafford vs. Jason Smith is a drop in the bucket. Regardless of WHO they draft, they are going to have to foot a LARGE bill.
Ford Motors is changing up its strategy to better increase sales and stay up with the market by switching to Hybrids from just putting out big SUV’S (gas guzzlers). The Detroit Lions have finally started to change strategy by FIRING MILLEN. Millen’s faulty strategy of taking WR’s in rd 1 is over; they have been using FA acquisitions at QB ever since Joey Harrington flopped (Kitna, Culpepper, etc). I think the Lions are more interested in increasing sales than saving face. IMO the best way to do that is to create some excitement by taking Stafford, who can be their future. He provides not only a face to the franchise but hope that the Lions will be able to better compete in the near future.
My point is…The Lions are changing. They have some key pieces in place. I believe that they are done with the FA route for taking QB’s as it is time to draft their guy b/c the Harrington wounds have now healed. They just restructured Culpepper’s contract as he is just a stop gap for the future. I’m just saying that the Lions are not going to NOT take the guy they want just to LOOK good and save face. They won’t let the current economical crisis sway them to take someone else. They will pick #1 regardless and that pick will still demand LOTS of money which will still have an outcry to the people that say professional athletes get paid too much. Plus will ALL of their draft picks they are in a position to fill a lot of holes/needs. Why would you pass on a potential Franchise QB?
Sigh
What I’m saying is that an unemployed person from the AUTO industry which is the bread and butter of Detroit
Dude, listen to yourself. This is the Detroit Lions you’re talking about. They haven’t cared what the people of Detroit have had to say about them for 40 years. Why in the hell would they start caring what the unemployed auto workers think now? Especially since they aren’t going to be buying tickets. And especially when what you seem to think would make them happy is really stupid.
“No Detroit…don’t go and draft a QB number one. They make too much money and that makes me feel bad because I don’t have a job.”
If the Lions think that Stafford is good enough to be a franchise guy worth the top pick, they’ll draft him. If they don’t, they won’t. It will have nothing to do with his contract.
Go talk to some former Sprint employees and see how they feel about the "Sprint Center" in KC and "Sprint" putting millions into NASCAR
Which has nothing to do with your point about Detroit auto workers. Because auto workers aren’t employed by the Lions. Ford and the Lions, although owned by the same family, aren’t the same company. And not all of those auto workers worked for Ford anyway. Matter of fact, Ford’s doing the best out of the big three right now, so most of those unemployed auto workers worked for Ford’s competitors. And since they’re probably not buying season tickets this year, I’ll tell you exactly what the Lions’ opinion should be if they start whining about how much they pay their draft picks…fuck ’em.
Ford will be trying to save face and if you want
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! The Lions!?! You think the Lions, who kept Matt Millen on the payroll for seven years, are going to start passing on players they want so they can save face!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
They haven’t cared what the fans want since they dumped Bobby Layne. They might do crappy in free agency, but that won’t have anything to do with them giving a damn about what the fans think…especially the fans who won’t be buying tickets (specifically the unemployed).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Dude relax...play nice. Just because you disagree doesn't make you Henry Ford
Why in the hell would they start caring what the unemployed auto workers think now?
Because as I stated before…those unemployed UAW ARE the season ticket holders. Matter of fact the majority of those in the stands are the UAW.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! The Lions!?! You think the Lions, who kept Matt Millen on the payroll for seven years, are going to start passing on players they want so they can save face!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Dude. Take a deep breath…there ya go, feel better? This is beyond that. We’re talking Congress getting in and taking the worth of the team and forcing a sale. Read the article, a lot of folks feel that way. We had Carl for 10 years without a playoff win. I won’t do the math.
Seriously, what is up with people lately not being able to disagree on here in a civil manner? You have your opine and I have mine. You care to look at it purely from a “sports” perspective and I include the “politics” of it as well.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
What Are You, A Socialist?
those unemployed UAW ARE the season ticket holders
Not this year. Probably not next year either. The bailouts aren’t going to save the Big Three auto companies…all it’s doing is stalling for time because those companies are still mismanaged and crippled by legacy costs. Passing on a QB in the draft isn’t going to change any of that. And I seriously doubt the huddled masses of unemployed auto workers are too stupid to realize that. And for the handful that do, I’m assuming that people that dumb don’t really have much of a following and probably don’t buy season tickets. Season ticket holders would want the team to draft the best possible player to improve their squad. If they think that’s Stafford and he costs $10 million per year, so be it.
We’re talking Congress getting in and taking the worth of the team and forcing a sale.
Which, again, has nothing to do with who they draft. It has to do with preconditions for the Fords getting bailout money for the car company.
Read the article
I did. It said nothing about who the masses think the Lions should draft. It was a plea for the feds to strip the Lions from the Ford family as a precondition for accepting bailout funds…not because the author loves Ford, but because he hates the Fords as owners of the Lions.
You care to look at it purely from a "sports" perspective and I include the "politics" of it as well.
Actually, you’re looking at it more from a “thinking versus feeling” perspective ala Myers-Briggs:
The thinking and feeling functions are both used to make rational decisions, based on the data received from their information-gathering functions (sensing or intuition). Those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent and matching a given set of rules. Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it ‘from the inside’ and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved.
Corporations (which include the Lions) don’t operate from a “feeling” perspective…because they aren’t people and don’t have a personality. They do what they perceive to be in their own best interests. And their own best interests are more likely to revolve around the desires of their customer base (meaning people with jobs who can afford to buy tickets and skyboxes and want to see a competitive product on the field) and don’t involve the opinions of a bunch of unemployed people who aren’t going to be buying Lions tickets or merchandise this year. So if they pass on Stafford, it won’t be because they felt sorry for all the out of work GM/Chrysler/Ford people. It’ll be because they thought someone else was a better fit for the team on the field and could help them sell more tickets this year.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
I'm thinking it'll be based on
the court of public opinion and congress. It’s got nothing to do with feeling sorry for anyone. It has to do what’s best in the interest of the corporation.
You view it as drafting a QBOTF and I view it as drafting anyone else because:
1) they won’t spend the same amount of money on another position and be more likely on a good return 2) less risk of bust and 3) if people are pissed off enough with their spending and get congress to step in and forces the sale, Ford’s screwed because he loses the profit of the Lions since it goes towards the bailout.
It’s got nothing to do with “feelings” it’s my interpretation of good business. They should lay low, not spend out a waazooo.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Right
I’m thinking it’ll be based on the court of public opinion and congress. It’s got nothing to do with feeling sorry for anyone.
Oh, please…like half of the bullshit Congress spout isn’t a jerk-off fest of pity stories meant to play on public sympathy. “Ohhh, the poor auto workers, they’re out of a job. Obviously anyone who loses a job is incapable of finding another one unless the government creates one for them. We must start a program and use your tax dollars to fund it so we can take credit by pretending that our program has a snowball’s chance of working help the poor people.”
You view it as drafting a QBOTF and I view it as drafting anyone else because:
1) they won’t spend the same amount of money on another position and be more likely on a good return 2) less risk of bust and 3) if people are pissed off enough with their spending and get congress to step in and forces the sale, Ford’s screwed because he loses the profit of the Lions since it goes towards the bailout.
Actually, you misunderstood my argument. What I said was, whether they draft Stafford or not will have nothing to do with how big his contract will be. It’ll have to do with whether they think he’s good enough to be a franchise QB and whether they think other players will be better on the field for that team.
Basically, your comments 1 and 2 were accurate…comment 3 was a complete load. If Congress decides to make the Fords sell the Lions to get federal funds for Ford Automotive, it will have no bearing on who the Lions draft. You’re basing this entire idea off an opinion column from some sportswriter who’s got nothing to do with the feds’ decision making (and who wasn’t even talking about the draft to begin with).
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
You’re basing this entire idea off an opinion column from some sportswriter who’s got nothing to do with the feds’ decision making (and who wasn’t even talking about the draft to begin with)
And I don’t have a problem with interpreting that just like I have no problem with you interpreting what player a team will take in each position of the draft. It’s all speculation and opine.
I take that column for face value and am predicting what I perceive based on having traveled to Detroit and spoken to Lion’s fans which is no different than your opinion on who should be drafted #3. That column was spot on and just touches the surface of how many (won’t say all) of the folks in Detroit I’ve spoken with feel.
I don’t think that Ford is going to spend the money that a #1 QB would demand. I’ll also state again that at this point Detroits ownership is treading lightly based solely on the economic conditions of his city as well as the court of public opinion.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
You're Not Interpreting
You’re using an irrelevant article to back your purely speculative position. You’re putting words in the author’s mouth. That’s not interpretation.
I take that column for face value
The face value was that he had nothing at all to say about the 2009 NFL draft. He just wanted the Fords to be forced to sell the team. He didn’t say anything at all about who the Lions should select.
and am predicting what I perceive based on having traveled to Detroit and spoken to Lion’s fans
Really? How many? How scientific was that sampling?
Dude, what’s with you today? Since when have you started in on this “word on the streets is” crap? You’re a stats and quantifiable analysis guy.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
and sorry to butt in but
lions should just come to la we will fill the seats and we will have the fan base instantly we are starving for a team. we wish we could sniff an nfl team here . sadly i must travel to san diego and deal with those bums
man this is the battle of the titans
the truth and uc going head to head right now this should be a post tomorrow.
This Isn't Truth
I’m 90% sure that Truth’s either screwing around with us or someone stole his log-in. Since when does Truth use anecdotal evidence (“I talked to Lions fans”) as the basis of his argument?
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
The Bailout Sets Me Off
So does nationalization, unions and fake sympathetic politicians.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
Agreed on all the above.
.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Plus
Truth is just being weird today.
Sorry Truth (if that’s you), but you are…you’re saying weird things.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
No, I'm just probably not being clear
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
remember
its PUFF, PUFF, GIVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNUjClJked8
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Sad thing is the lions are coming to cali
We already are building the stadium by my house and they already have the t shirts everyone is wearing them in La
Here is the link for the shirts and the stadium
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/0/e/AAAADAiJQL0AAAAAAADghw.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/free-beer-and-hot-wings-los-angeles-lions-t-shirt&usg=__YI1JQE5F_fkBtTn5t5O7sru9SQg=&h=216&w=216&sz=9&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=u0Po44eS1ycCFM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=107&prev=/images3Fq3Dlos2Bangeles2Blions2Bshirt26um3D126hl3Den26sa%3DN http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/
I'm pretty sure that's apart of the new UFL
And I don’t think the Lions are moving to the UFL. Maybe I missed your sarcasm? I am kind of excited to see how the UFL turns our though.
On a completely different though, I want Shaun Rogers on this team, and I hate Matt Stafford.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
it will be the ufl if the ufl works out
but they are trying to really get an nfl team out here as soon as possible that is their goal . all the stadiums out here suck except the rose bowl that place is awsome but this guys goal is to bring an nfl team over here.
$50 million in cap space
the releases were timed well. — sends a nice message to potential free agents around the league.
the performance enhancing drugs argument begins with lassic eye surgery
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