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Chiefs Seeking 3-4 Nose Tackle

Nfl_dorsey_580_medium

Is Glenn Dorsey big enough to be a 3-4 nose tackle?

via sports.espn.go.com

With the Kansas City Chiefs possibly preparing for the possible switch to the 3-4 defense, it's becoming more apparent that they have some serious work to do on the personnel side.  This means adding more players, specifically linebackers, in order to effectively employ the defense that has gained so much popularity in recent years.

Joe Collier, architect of the Denver Broncos' famed Orange Crush defense and father of current Chiefs assistant coach Joel Collier, calls the nose tackle the "single most important guy" in a 3-4 scheme.

"He has to hold it all together and make it so the guards can't get out on the inside linebackers. Let me put it this way - the nose tackle can make the inside linebackers look pretty good, and if your inside linebackers look pretty good, you're going to play pretty good defense."

From a technical stand point, the nose tackle must occupy the center and the strong side guard.  One defensive end will take on the weak side guard and the tackle while the other end will occupy the tackle and the tight end. Doing this correctly will free up rushing lanes for linebackers.

Why should Collier's opinion on this be of utmost importance to Chiefs fans clamoring for any information on the new defensive scheme? Let me show you the connection.

Bill Belichick often credits Collier with being the one who first showed him the 3-4 defense. The same Belichick that worked with Scott Pioli in New England for 8 years. Presumably, Pioli learned the ins and outs of 3-4 personnel from and with Belichick.

That said, Pioli (via Collier and Belichick) understands the importance of the nose tackle in a 3-4. Like the man who helped build the Orange Crush defense said, first you find the nose tackle, then you fill in the gaps.

Nose tackle may not come from the draft

Think about this. One of the first things Bill Parcells did when he came to Miami was trade for Jason Ferguson, then a 33 year old, 11 year veteran nose tackle. By the "youth movement" standards we've become accustomed, Ferguson's name wouldn't even come up around here.

For the 3-4 to work, the Chiefs need someone ready to play immediately. If we throw in another young and inexperienced player, or someone undersized, we're asking for trouble.

As far as the draft goes, there are two players that could conceivably step in and play fairly quickly: B.J. Raji and Ron Brace, teammates from Boston College. Since this is a weak class for defensive tackles, especially 3-4 tackles, it's unlikely both will be available with the Chiefs second pick.  Brace has the best chance of being available with the 35th pick.

We'll be taking a closer look at both of these players in the coming days.

Why not Glenn Dorsey?

Size is the biggest impediment here.  Dorsey is listed at 6'1", 297 lbs. although he entered the combine at 316 lbs just last year.

Ideally a 3-4 nose tackle is bigger (and stronger) than Dorsey. Some of the best include:

  • Casey Hampton - 6'1", 325 lbs
  • Vince Wilfork - 6'2", 325 lbs
  • Jamal Williams - 6'3", 348 lbs
  • Shaun Rogers - 6'4", 350 lbs
  • Kris Jenkins - 6'4", 349 lbs

Take a look at a few of the perceived weaknesses in Dorsey's game by NFL scouts when he entered the league:

  • Has a thick frame and while not sloppy, he does lack solid muscle tone
  • Has a strong lower body, but he needs to improve his base
  • Must do a better job of planting his foot and anchoring vs. double teams
  • .Lack of ideal size might limit him to one-gap schemes

Not the scouting report you want to hear for a nose tackle in a 3-4.

Other candidates for nose tackle

Tank Tyler comes to mind.  He's listed at 6'2", 306 lbs so he would certainly have to put on some weight. But if you'll recall he led all defensive linemen in bench press reps demonstrating some raw strength.

Shaun Rogers is apparently begging out of Cleveland. It's been reported that he doesn't want the team to pay him a $6 million bonus next month, instead releasing him outright although that's part of $15 million guaranteed due to him.  Reports out of Cleveland, however, indicate that the Browns (also a 3-4 team) aren't likely to release him.

 

Poll
If the Chiefs switch to a 3-4 defense, the nose tackle will be....
2009 draft pick
55 votes
A current member of the roster (Dorsey/Tyler)
328 votes
Someone from free agency
463 votes

846 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 31 comments |

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Comments

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Seriously, what to do about Dorsey?

Is he a wash then? I’ve heard something before about him lining up at DE, which was interesting. I mean, obviously it worked for Alphonso Boone…

/Sarcasm

-cw

"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds

by webby37 on Feb 25, 2009 2:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

how could Dorsey not be an impact player?

3-4 DE – yes sir!! ALL the tools. You want the guy one-on-one. You put a run-clogger in the middle that commands double teams and let Dorsey do his thing.

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he would thrive at DE in a 3-4

Most DEs in the 3-4 play around 300 lbs.

AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.

by cmpotter on Feb 25, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow that would be a waste of talent if we go 3-4

this guy could be good if he has a chance to develop. I want to see what they do.

by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 2:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

not if Dorsey lights it up at DE - which he would.

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We need to find a way to get

Ron Brace, if we cant get Rogers. If we trade down in the first and pick up a mid-second, he’d be a very wise selection

by SayHeyWerd on Feb 25, 2009 2:57 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You need a DE?

You already have him. His name is Glenn Dorsey – your new 3-4 DE. The new Seymour! And if we do – we get Raji. Raji is top 5 talent people.

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Dorsey is NOT a waste of talent - put him a DE or pair him

with Raji in 4-3 looks.

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Primetime - what are you saying??

You said " Since this is a weak class for defensive tackles, especially 3-4 tackles, it’s unlikely both will be available with the Chiefs second pick. "

Of course not. Raji is a top 5 talent! The most unforgiving opinion would have him top 10. Of course he wouldn’t be there in the second round. Something tells me most of you have no clue who Raji even is or what he is capable of…

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Here's someone who understands

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3878507&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story3fcolumnist3dmcshay_todd26id3d3878507

The problem with this one is I just don’t see Detriot taking a QB anymore. This one above has Raji going #4 but I say if Curry is gone for some reason you take Raji. Curry very well could be a Lion if they don’t take a tackle. Wouldn’t be surprised if they took OT and Curry falls to us though.

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what the hell are you talking bout

when did he say both will be avalible?

by SayHeyWerd on Feb 25, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure I follow

I said both of them wouldn’t be available come the 35th pick. But maybe Brace would.

by Joel Thorman on Feb 25, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you referring to our 2nd round pick?

I think we pick 34th.

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Feb 25, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My first AP post

Dorsey IS a wash. Thought it since the get go. I don’t even see the point in talking about him other than the arguing whether or not he’s a wash. He’ll play DE in the 3-4 and not do anything special or DT in the 4-3 and continue to be mediocre. Aggressiveness in FA is the key for the 3-4 to become the Chiefs new D. Two LB’s and a DT, via draft or FA, otherwise I’d expect the 4-3 to continue to be our primary defense. Like Raji since Curry will be gone for our draft pick.

by CalCapone on Feb 25, 2009 3:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

-500 go away

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dorsey put up good enough numbers

in ’08 to keep him out of the “wash” category.

by ChiefsDude on Feb 25, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is Dorsey a wash

His numbers were right in line with Sapp and Haynesworth when they were rookies. They actually had talent around them to help. What did Dorsey have?

AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.

by cmpotter on Feb 25, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He absorbed the double team all season...

And he still “productive” four our standards. Not a game changer but encouraging. Really, he’s the only member of our front 4 who does have an decent excuse for last season.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Feb 26, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I read

here on AP that Dorsey made the most tackles of all rookie d linemen this year. I think.

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. HSThompson

by Chiefho on Feb 28, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dorsey at DE Fanpost

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/2/22/767621/should-the-chiefs-try-dors

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Which includes the Raji info + links

in the comments section

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by JChief on Feb 25, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

raji

the beef on him is that he doest go hard on every play i dont feel comfortable giving a guy that kind of money who will not be on the field every play

by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 4:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

raji

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/BJ-Raji.php
like i said i dont feel comfortable giving a guy that high of a pick if he is going to run out of gas in the 3-4 qtr we have already gone that route this year.

by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 4:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

NT

Tyler was 330 coming in I could see him as NT. Dorsey is too small. I like Sammie Lee Hill in the fourth. Him a Tyler and maybe Favorite out of LSU in 7th.

by FrankPitts on Feb 25, 2009 4:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What about Fili Moula out of USC?

The guy is a beast and would be there in the second

AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.

by cmpotter on Feb 25, 2009 4:35 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

fili

damn fili went to my high schools rival western fuck i hate western.http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2009/2/14/758896/scouting-report-fili-moala
here is his scouting report

by sexassassin on Feb 25, 2009 4:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

shuan rogers...

He doesn’t like the ManGenious, and wants to leave.

by kc571 on Feb 25, 2009 4:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, But

They would be silly to give in to his demands. He signed a long-term deal last year. He’s a great fit for what they’re trying to do.

by Joel Thorman on Feb 25, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tank

I think they just have Tank put on some weight this year and have him play NT. IMO this year is going to be a hybrid, play as they go kind of year where they will test our current roster at the different positions (Dorsey -DE,NT /Tank -NT/ Hali -OLB)

If anything whoever plays NT (Tank) could be a stop-gap player as we gradually make the switch and later just provide depth if we make an upgrade in 2010.

IMO, I would like to see Dorsey at DE. I think the NT has to be a BIG BODY and eat up space. I want to see Dorsey out on the edge and utilize his athleticism. The only thing he lacks is his height as the prototypical 3-4DE is about 6’5 301lbs. Dorsey stands at 6’1 297lbs. Lets hope heart makes up the difference in height.

by JZChiefsfan on Feb 25, 2009 6:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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