Making use with what we have in the 3-4
by Vince D on Feb 23, 2009 3:35 PM CST
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Everyone keeps talking about drafting such and such and signing numerous free agents, but chances are we will not land any top notch free agents. And although we will probably end up with whom we want at #3 (which many of us think should be Curry), we should probably have a backup plan. Using the players we currently have, here is how I see a 3-4 defense working out:
LDE: Glenn Dorsey, Jason Babin
DT: Tank Tyler, Ron Edwards
RDE: Alfonso Boone, Brian Johnston
WLB: Turk McBride, Tamba Hali
MLB: Derrick Johnson, Pat Thomas
MLB: Donnie Edwards, I have no idea who else we have
SLB: Rocky Boiman, Demorrio Williams
Before you all go nuts on me, let me explain why I think this works best. Glenn Dorsey needs to be used where he can penetrate, not as a standstill run stuffer, and that is why he is a DE instead of the nose tackle. Tank Tyler has one full year of starting experience now, and while he was not incredible, he was adequate. Plus if we were to draft his buddy Aaron Curry, that will only push him to play harder. Alfonso Boone is the last man standing out of our pathetic DL because he is the only person that ever gets a little penetration. Sure, you could argue that Babin finished last season strong and he would be better suited to play RDE, but for the sake of avoiding argument lets just say neither one is a long term option.
Linebacker is where I get a little crazy. Rocky Boiman was one of the most solid performers of our linebackers last year and if we are forced to start 4 linebackers, he would need to be a starter. Derrick Johnson moves to the middle where I believe he played in college and where he can help be the team leader. Donnie Edwards also moves to middle, assuming he can stay healthy, and gives us veteran leadership on our defense. Weakside linebacker is where we run out of options. Demorrio Williams didn’t do squat last year. If we are just putting pure athletes on the field, all that we have left are Turk and Tamba. Turk, while not very good as a penetration DE, made a lot of plays chasing people down and showed he has potential to do good things. Tamba Hali is running out of luck… he has been with us a few years and still has not much to show for it, especially for being a former first round pick. He’s not big enough for the DL and he doesn’t tackle well enough to be a starting linebacker. Therefore Turk McBride gets the thumbs up on the weakside.
So now that you have my reasoning, here is my REALISTIC 3-4 hopes:
LDE: Glenn Dorsey
DT: Tank Tyler
RDE: Igor Olshansky (FA from San Diego)
WLB: Turk McBride
MLB: Derrick Johnson
MLB: Rocky Boiman/Donnie Edwards
SLB: Aaron Curry (drafted at #3 overall)
Igor Olshansky seems like a likely candidate to be signed by the Chiefs. First of all, he is a solid performer in the 3-4 and would come at a relatively cheap price since 2008 was a down year for him. I would imagine KC would be a nice place for him to come since he’d get to play his former team twice a year. Maybe he doesn’t care about that, but it might be fun for him.
Aaron Curry is drafted #3 assuming the Lions don’t take a linebacker #1 overall and assuming the Rams take an offensive lineman which they desperately need since Orlando Pace can’t stay healthy. He plays the strongside and Rocky Boiman moves to the middle since it’s very likely Donnie Edwards will not make it through the season injury free.
Is this realistic? What are your ideas?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Hmm
Turk Mcbride playing LB…..I dont think so. Dorsey playing DE…I dont think so.
We need to just keep what we have and play a 4-3 defense. Tank, Turk, Dorsey, and Babin on the line and DJ, Aaron Curry, and FA/Draft pick. Keeping what we have makes more sense. We have too much invested in Dorsey to play him out of position.
Dorsey could work at DE
And what we had last year was the worst pass rush in NFL history (by a long shot) so I don’t think switching to a 3-4 would hurt us too much.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 23, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
McBride
If we are switching to a 3-4, not saying I want to, then we’d be better of using his talents at linebacker because he’d be pretty useless on the line. What you are suggesting is that we keep the same defensive line that was the worst pass rush in NFL history. And Dorsey is a great prospect for a 3-4 DE because penetration is his strength (or at least it was before Herm Edwards got ahold of him).
He's right
not only can McBride not play LB, Tamba Hali can’t either
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 23, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
+1
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
I think that Hali can play LB
MORE SO than Turk. Tamba is a little more versatile than Turk.
I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
'09, a new era begins in Kansas City.
Dorsey was compared to Sapp coming out of college, right.
And Sapp played DE for the raiders when played a 3-4. Sapp also admitted that he hated playing the 3-4.
I think that our past drafts in regards to our linemen will all be wasted with the switch to a 3-4, and that wouldn’t be too bad since none have really done anything yet. Dorsey might be a misfit in the 3-4 and might be better off if we traded him to another team for a 1st rd pick and additional picks.
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on Feb 23, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
KC HAS TO RUN A 4-3!
I’m sorry but no way would the above scenario work. Glenn Dorsey will never be a DE in the NFL. you are absolutely correct when you say he needs to be a penetrater and not a run stopping nose tackle, but that doesn’t me he’s a DE. that makes him a 3 TECH and we need to find a BADASS (HANYESWORTH) for the 1 tech. Let Dorsey play how he dominated college, by shooting the gaps and running down the play rather than trying to hold up a OL and stuff the hole. And LB was our worst position last year, why would you want to have the worst position we have as the most people on the field(as you do in a 3-4)?! Stay with a 4-3 and help the talent you have their… Hali will probably never live up to a 1st round pick but he will be solid if he doesn’t have to play RE, and we can get a dominate pass rusher to come in and take pressure off him by putting him back to LE, the way Jarrod Allen made him look so much better than he did this year.
Donnie Edwards is done. I love him and appreciate his heart for the chiefs but he’s done. Chiefs need another solid LB obviously and if you take Curry as #3 pick sure it takes care of that. And i’m not against taking curry (although i would love Crabtree, just know that won’t happen), but Curry makes DJ playin MLB (Rocky Boiman is not answer sorry!) I really think DJ can play this too, especially if he gets a BADASS in front of him at the 1 tech that i talked about earlier that will free up guards coming in his face every play.
so then were left with WLB… who can we play there? no NO NO NO NOT TURK MCBRIDE!!! (obviously people that say a DLineman can start linebacker have never played football competitively in their life, b/c if so they know Dlineman are Dlineman for a reason!!! they don’t have the hips to turn and get out into coverage in the deep hook or play man to man! NO way should we think about a DL playin WLB!
This is who i would start at WLB……… Jarrod Page! he’s big enough at 225 and fast enough and we all know he likes to hit like a LB, but the only problem is it leaves a hole at the other safety position. Solution: Find a way to get by for the season, McGraw can do it for a year, and then find a way to draft Taylor Mays from USC.. mark my words, he will be the next ED REED!!
OUR DEFENSE IS SIMPLER TO FIX THAN PEOPLE THINK JUST FOLLOW THESE STEPS:
1. Find a BADASS 1 TECH!! (I know a pretty good one in Tennessee that’s a free agent, and it’s not like we don’t have money to spend!)
2. Get a passrushing DE(draft 2nd round or even more spending Peppers)
3. Draft Curry
4. STAY IN A 4-3!
by spencercole2 on Feb 23, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
you're right-on until you suggest Haynesworth
No way we pay for that fool. He’s looking for $100million with $30million guaranteed. Forget about it. Seven years and he has yet to play an entire season.
Vae Victis!
i agree
I agree his askin price is too demanding especially when he’s only played as well as he has in contract years.. if it was guaranteed that he would dominate like he did last year for the all 7, its a no brainer, but tha’s not gonna happen.. we gotta find someone though that can take on a double team at the 1 techh and WIN SOME. and no it’s not Dorsey.
by spencercole2 on Feb 24, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Haynesworth too expense and Carolina’s asking price (franchsise tag) for Peppers is too costly for a team that needs to rebuild @ almost every position. Why not play DeJuan Morgan @ safety? But everything else I agree with.
When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.
I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title
I have posted several times that I dont think the Chiefs should switch to a 3/4. They are not built for it. I think Dorsey could work as a "stop the bleeding " DE but, eventually, we would have to spend another high draft pick on the d-line… again!
I think Tank would make a pretty nice nose guard but that is about it. Flowers is built for playing zone not man to man. Hali wouldnt work well in the 3/4. I just hate to see the Chiefs have to replace so many high draft picks after such a short time just to change schemes.
If Pioli and Haley werent lying to us, they will stick with a 4/3. They have said many times that this team will be built around the players who are here.
I think all these defensive players have potential to be solid role players with some decent coaching. We need Curry and a couple good FA backers if we want this defense to be special.
Flowers
Flowers played man to man at Virginia Tech. He may not have top speed but he will be fine in any defense.
Turk would be a 3-4 end...
…Tamba could try to play LB…I think he could do it if he can get his hips to work right…
I could see our 3-4 looking like this... (given we make the right moves)
OLB: Aaron Curry
ILB: Rocky Boiman
ILB: Bart Scott
OLB: Derrick Johnson
RDE: Glenn Dorsey
NT: Tank
LDE: Igor Olshansky
I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
'09, a new era begins in Kansas City.
no way we get our hands on Scott
how about Crowder
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I actually see Dorsey as more a LDE
That side tends to be heavier and he would do better there….
Scott is realistic…
Turk...
is no “Obama for the weed.” I’m not sure what the hell that means but I will remind all of you of this fact everytime I hear his name mentioned. If he is no “Obama for the weed,” can we really count on him at LB?
WTF
Why do people think Boiman or even Babin deserve to start. Even if this is hypothetical it is a repeat of a shitty defense. I know…They filled in well last year. Anybody off the street would have looked good on that defense.
AFC West Champs in 2009? Mayyybee.
The purpose of the post
was to take a realistic approach toward moving to a 3-4 defense. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
It's not going to be a wholesale transition
We’ll probably try to make some moves towards a 3-4 oriented roster but we’ll never be able to make the jump in a single year. Not with the holes we need filled. We’ll most likely see a bunch of both 3-4 and 4-3 formations and as the season progresses, we’ll gravitate towards whichever works best. If you look at other teams that run 3-4, you’ll see them run some 4-3 as well. Check out the Steelers. With that kind of approach, we’re not likely to lay waste to the guys we have now. It shouldn’t be that bad.
Vae Victis!
That sounds like a good and reasonable plan.
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 23, 2009 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you Steve!
I was wondering if anyone even read that?!?! :)
It’s not as black and white as everyone thinks it is. $35 or $40 million under the cap is a ton, but it’s not enough to lay waste to half the roster and rebuild. There aren’t enough options to fill our current gaps in FA and the draft as it is. A shift of this magnitude is not going to happen over night. Besides, some of the most successful examples of 3-4 base systems run lots of 4-3.
Vae Victis!
Agreed
A few teams run a 3-4/4-3 hybrid but I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if they can be thrown in and out.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 23, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
nice post
i love the idea to see what you’d have to do if stuck with the current D – then go from there. looks to me like that’s more like the process Pioli’s using.
current Chiefs roster + 1 premiere LB FA + Crabtree + defensive draft = CONTENDAHS
"at least we don't need a punter"
Thank you
I was trying to take a realistic approach to moving toward a 3-4 if that’s what Haley decides to do. I doubt we’ll sign a ton of free agents like everyone else wants.
ya
I’m hearin you.
also, I don’t think we have all that far to go. our defense is so young it could develop. although some are more longshots than others, tank, dorsey, hali, flowers, carr, and DJ are all possible probowlers — I think the low side for this group as veterans is a middle of the league defense. Not like we’re really working with the worst personnel — just a terribly performing defense last year.
ya damned if ya dizzle
Turk
Turk simply can’t play LB. Not sure how I feel about Dorsey on the end?
I really think that Jacksonville would lov to get Dorsey and Macintosh with a 8
Dorsey would be the through in Mac as a BIG slow O-lineman fits their scheme.
You're right but we would be the suckers.
Dorsey WILL be a stud DT with some help on the D-Line and A coach.
What about a 4-3 under
That is what Pendergast had the Cards playing last year. It’s a version of the hybrid that uses the right DE as a stand up rusher — I think Suggs is in this position a lot too.
Someone posted an article about this when it was rumored Pendergsat might be our DC. We should revisit that article.
They will go after bigger linebackers like in the 3-4, but it will be a version of a 4-3 pressure that can use the 4-3 line personnel with a skewed front.
I might be ignorant but the AZ or Pitt DC/LB ran that
I don’t think in our mass roundup of DC’s we got him.
Maybe we need to have another cattle drive KC?
Tank and Alphonso Boone at DT subbing in and out for each other and I like what you have there. I think Babin is a good linebacker or DE, like Jason Taylor (which he was supposed to be the next Jason Taylor). Whatever it is I just hope they use everyone in the best role possible, which I’m sure everyone else is saying too…Anyways nice post.
by ChiefsFootSoldier on Feb 23, 2009 9:25 PM CST reply actions
Dorsey is too small to be a great nose tackle, but, at defensive end, with his strength and speed, he could very well be the greatest defensive end of all time there I said, just the perfect of size strength and speed to be a great defensive end. Wow that actually gets me pretty excited.
by ChiefsFootSoldier on Feb 23, 2009 9:31 PM CST reply actions
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