Why Did the Chiefs Retain Defensive Line Coach Tim Krumrie?
by Chris Thorman on Feb 18, 2009 6:13 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Offseason
Email
Print
Like most of you, I was rather shocked to see defensive line coach Tim Krumrie retained by the Kansas City Chiefs. His official title hasn't been announced yet but the past experience of the coaches hired today suggest that Krumrie, the only current Chiefs coach with DL coaching experience of any significance, will be the defensive line coach of the Chiefs.
In case you'd forgotten, the 2008 Chiefs defensive line was quite literally one of the worst defensive units in NFL history. (Sweet Jesus how many times am I going to have to type that?)
10 sacks. Worst in NFL history. (I find it interesting that nobody seems to mention this about the record: The previous NFL worst for sacks in a season was 11 by the 1982 Baltimore Colts, who only played nine games that season. The media generally reports only the stats of full, 16 game seasons. They missed an even more shocking stat on this one by doing that.)
2,543 rushing yards allowed. 5.0 YPC average.
Hmm. Now we know that Scott Pioli and Todd Haley are intelligent people. Why would they bring the man responsible for such a fiasco back?
Haley's move to retain Krumrie tells me a couple of things.
First, that he likes what he's seen in terms of Krumrie's coaching prowess. Obviously. He saw a coach who was seemingly completely hampered by the low level of talent he was forced to work with. I could imagine Scott Pioli and Todd Haley evaluating the defensive line, looking at each other, and thinking that no one could succeed with this group of guys.
Is it possible our defense line is so poor that they won't even respond to coaching? I guess it's possible. Maybe Todd Haley thinks so.
Second, keeping Krumie as the coach despite last year's performance tells me that the defensive line problems are likely entirely on the talent/personnel side. Which means that we're probably looking at as many replacements on the d-line as possible. If your team had one of the worst rushing defenses of all time and you kept the line coach, you'd be expected to pretty much clean house on the defensive line, right*?
*To be fair, linebackers and the secondary do play a role in limiting opponent's rushing but the defensive line is the most responsible.
Does cleaning house include Glenn Dorsey?
For salary reasons especially, it would not include him. His signing bonus would be accelerated against the salary cap if we let him go. Dorsey will get a pass for at least two more years even if he is indeed not as good as advertised. But I think we're judging him far too soon. Remember, Glenn Dorsey ranked 1st in tackles for rookie defensive linemen. It's also possible that the coaching staff would want to retain only Dorsey and clean the rest of the house.
It's not hard to imagine getting rid of our other defensive linemen. DE Tamba Hali is turning out to be another blown first day pick. Turk McBride is at best an average defensive end and has half a season lost due to injury in just two seasons played. Ron Edwards and Tank Tyler haven't given us anything to indicate they'll progress beyond their current talent. Not a single player on our line would ever require a double team.
Getting back to Krumrie's coaching ability, I just remembered one of Jason Whitlock's articles right before the final game of the 2008 season that mentioned Glenn Dorsey. Whitlock saw Dorsey in the locker room and was shocked by how small he was. The reporter then chastised the Chiefs coaches in the newspaper for how they were using the #5 pick. Jason Whitlock seems to think it's insane the position the Chiefs are playing Dorsey at- straight up over an offensive guard.
This is the single-worst, defensive-strategy decision I’ve seen in 15 years of covering the NFL. Honestly, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and defensive-line coach Tim Krumrie should be fired today and not allowed to travel to Cincinnati for the season finale.
We'll see if a position switch is in store for Glenn Dorsey. His improper use is quite the knock on Krumrie but Haley apparently was willing to over look it.
Like with most problems in the NFL, it's probably some combination of coaching and low talent level that created last year's mess. But Todd Haley seems to think that Tim Krumrie has what it takes to eventually be successful coaching a defensive line. If he didn't think so, Tim Krumrie wouldn't still be a Kansas City Chief.
Todd Haley retaining Tim Krumrie tells me that a lot of changes are in store for the defensive line, despite the normal logic that says keeping a coach promotes continuity.
There's definitely wiggle room in my arguments. Let's hear what you have to say about the Chiefs keeping Tim Krumrie.
36 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
? hints at #3 pick
Choosing Gary Gibbs, Pendergast, and Krummy has to lock #3 pick on the defensive side, no? Not that Haley necessarily cares about appearances, but if you go offense here, it just looks as though he’s putting not near enough emphasis on defense unless he goes out and gets some FA pearls but I am not seeing that
Krumrie doing what he is told...
Krumrie was doing exactly what Herm Edwards wanted him to do as far as how he coached the DLine. Lining Dorsey up directly on the opposing guard wasn’t Tim’s idea, it was Herms “Tampa 2” scheme.
This is what I was thinking
though not Herm, but rather Gunther.
last year, our Linebacking corp wasn’t great before all the injuries. after some injuries, they flat out sucked. I always thought putting Dorsey in the 2-tech was a strategy to keep the linemen off of our already sucky linebackers.
We Have No Idea Whose Idea It Was
But considering his rather neglectful approach to everything else, I find it hard to believe that Herm Edwards was that far down in the weeds telling Krumrie where to line up his linemen…especially since Herm’s expertise was defensive backs, not defensive line.
I’m more willing to believe that Gunther was that much of a micromanager…but I still blame Krumrie for the performance. He’s been too underwhelming of a coach for too long to make me think he knows what he’s doing.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Herm's youth movement
I still don’t feel that last year fell totally on Gun’s sholders. We have gone round on this before but I don’t think that the DC that lead his team to improve every year since he returned suddenly forgot how to coach, the year before he had a top end defense. But I also don’t think Herm totally tied his hands in regards to scheme.
I still feel the problem was the going with youth at every position possible last year. With only 2 players starting in the same position as the year before, 3 rookie, 2 second year, 3 third year players we just didn’t have the experience needed. When you look at all of the great defenses they have great veteran leadership, guys who have seen it all and know how to comunicate it to the rest of the squad. Who on our defense is a leader, Derrick Johnson? I think not.
I Don't Feel It Fell Totally On Gun's Shoulders Either
It was at least as much Herm’s and Carl’s fault…which is why they all deserved to be fired.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Gary Gibbs
Let’s hope the other 5% of the coaching staff that isn’t in place yet is a defensive coordinator. Gary Gibbs defense is just as bad as the Chiefs last year. Maybe he was handcuffed by Sean Peyton though, I don’t know the circumstances.
Oh God
Not another season of “the head coach was holding him back”. We already did that dance with Gunther and it was b.s.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Krummrie getting retained is a bit of a head scratcher
I’d agree with previous sentiments that Pioli and Haley must’ve identified 0 elite level d-lineman on the current roster. They probably also realize that Dorsey will improve and Tamba is a good complementary player, but at least 2 more highly productive players have to be added.
(Turk, Alphonso Boone and Brian Johnston are fine with me as rotation guys, but I won’t be crying if they’re not in the plans….maybe Johnston…I still have hopes for that kid. It was a shame when he went down so early in the year.)
Good Complementary Player?
Career high of eight sacks and his numbers have declined every year he’s been in the league (even with Jared Allen having a career year). I don’t think he’s been a good complementary player at all.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
8 sacks complementing Jared Allen
Minute sample size but I think that’s where he was going.
Either way, if that’s all he is is a complementary player then I don’t want to pay him as much as he’s getting now.
by Joel Thorman on Feb 18, 2009 8:08 AM CST up reply actions
And 7.5 Sacks Complementing Allen During A Career Year
Plus, in 2007 when Allen was getting all of the defensive pressure Hali’s tackles and tackles for loss also dropped. That indicates that even with someone taking the heat off of him he’s not very good at getting into the backfield. And when he has to be “the guy” he’s not even a factor in the game.
There was an article I was reading back in 2007 that had a blurb where an opposing player from one of the teams the Chiefs played said that they gameplanned to run everything right at Hali and away from Allen because Hali was so easy to overpower and couldn’t play the run at all. Can’t find the article now, but two years later I can’t say as I’ve seen anything that makes me disagree with that assessment.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Sure, like a Jarvis Green type guy.
I know his production has declined, and if you don’t think he’s a good rush end, I’m not going to convince you. But I do strongly feel that Tamba has a place in a well structured defense.
Sure
If he’s got a superstar end lining up on the other side from him taking all the defensive pressure…unfortunately the Chiefs don’t have one of those anymore. Otherwise, he’s a liability.
I refuse to accept that a guy who produces so little when he isn’t playing with a superstar teammate is a legitimate starter in the NFL.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
We'll find out, I guess
I think this year was an anomaly, but you might be right. I think there are probably a lot of teams out there that would love to have him in their rotation. He’s tenacious, he’s fairly quick and he can cause turnovers. Part of the problem last season was having only 2 defensive ends on the roster. Having 4 competent ends to rotate would help him a lot.
I’m not saying he’s a star, or legitimate starter, or mediocre at best. I’m saying in the right situation he’s useful.
Maybe
We’ll see…I’m just not optimistic because he’s playing under the same coach as last year.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Not A Fan Of Tweeners
Especially when they haven’t had any experience playing linebacker that I know of.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
It worked ok for Matt Roth. Greg Ellis too.
I’m assuming it’s still going to be a hybrid system though
Roth
Not to be overly harsh, but it’s tough for me to get excited about a guy who’s never posted more than five sacks in a season and has never had 100 tackles.
I actually had to look him up to figure out who he was. If that’s what we can expect from Hali, then he’s not worth re-signing once his contract is up.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
And
We might as well start looking for his replacement now.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
More to coaching than meets the eye
Add Jared Allen to last years line and Krumrie’s fan approval rating would have jumped several dozen percentage points. With Jared gone, Herm and Gun tried moving everybody around and it just didn’t work. The scheme that Whitlock accurately pegged as being wrong for the personnel was Herm and Gun’s call, not Krumries. Also don’t forget that Krumrie had to use players like Babin and Wallace Gilberry in the second half with all the injuries. I trust Pioli and Haley on this one. They have had no problem letting coaches go who they didn’t think were good fits, so if they approve of Krumrie I am with them.
Of Course
Jared Allen leaving would seem to be more a case of exposing the defensive line of not being a product of good coaching but merely the presence of one great player.
I don’t care if Krumrie’s line is good when Jared Allen is here. I care if Krumrie’s line is good whether Jared Allen is here or not.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Personally, I think there is probably a very good reason
for the Chiefs to retain Krumrie. At this point, it is not blatantly obvious what that reason is, but it could become more readily apparent as the season progresses. Perhaps it is just because Krumrie can whip everybody’s ass. LOL :?)
Right
That worked so well for him last season.
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Isn't that some sort of logical fallacy?
Like an appeal to authority or something?
by Joel Thorman on Feb 18, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
He beat them!
The only reason why I think Krumrie is still on staff is because he beat Haley and Pioli in the hand combat drill.
Perhaps Krummy was retained because...
he was an undersized nose tackle with Cincinnati, and they think that he can turn Tank and Dorsey into beasts if they let him do his own thing with them…
it’s a reach… but… that’s all that i can think of.
Amazing
Where are all the malcontents that wanted Edwards strung up by the short & curlys?
“Krummy was only doing what he was told”. Please, so was Gooonther and Scooter Libby.
Again, amazing, just amazing!
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Feb 18, 2009 3:28 PM CST reply actions
In Fairness
I wanted all of them fired…Krummy, Gunny, Hermy, and Carly. :)
I have absolutely no idea who the Chiefs will draft or sign in free agency and anyone who thinks that they know is talking out of their fourth point of contact.
All I know is that the Chiefs are going to field a better team in 2009. Prediction of team record will be submitted after the 2009 draft.
Sir, number 1 malcontent present and accounted for, sir!!
Sir, all the incompetent bums I despised have left the building, sir! Sir, Sergeant Krumrie can kick may ass at any time of his choosing, sir! Sir, I will not engage in combat with or over Sergeant Krumrie, sir!
Anyone blaming Krumrie for how Dorsey lined up...
…doesn’t know how things work in the NFL.
A position coach does not make that decision. Period. It’s a decision specific to the defensive scheme — either Dorsey is going to tie up blockers, or he’s going to try to slip past them to crash the backfield. That is not a decision the defensive line coach makes.
There are a million reasons to get rid of Krumrie, but this isn’t one of them.
In a best-case scenario, because of the late start they got, the team simply wasn’t able to find a defensive line coach they wanted. Thus, Krumrie was retained. Hopefully he’ll be gone next year when his contract expires.
thats exactly what i think SlipperyPete
there werent any other legit candidates for the Dline coaching job. He’ll be gone next year.
Call me Pacman...cuz I MAKE IT RAIN!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
