Is it Time...for a QB Change?
by kcskip on Dec 9, 2009 7:13 PM CST
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PrintI think the question should be asked what does Matt Cassel do that resembles a starting QB in the NFL. From the beginning his accuracy has been questionable. It’s a rare pass that he throws that the reciever does have to contort his body to make the catch. Rarely does he throw a pass that hits the reciever in stride. I actually think he makes our recievers look bad (Except Mark Bradely and Sean Ryan – they don't need help from Matt). I’d bet that if Brodie or any other starting QB threw the same passes Matt has thrown thus far, the drop number would be half what it is.
The pass thrown last game to a WIDE OPEN Bobby Wade was slightly off the mark....and it didn’t have to be perfect because nobody was even on the same side of the 50 yard line with him. Bobby took all of the blame but I have reviewed that pass again and again and I still see it as Matt’s error (Dan Fout's assessments are always QB freindly).
While it is true the offensive line has had some protection problems along the way , I think Matt has aggrevated the situation by taking forever to make a decisions. It's obvious that defenses have schemed to play according to his tendencies. They create havoc at the line to draw his attention away from looking down field so he doesn't see the open recievers. When he does have time he appears to hold on to the ball longer than necessary. It could be that he lacks field vision or is just confounded by the coverages.
It's seems that he doesn’t drop back and throw with any sense of rythm and timing. Could it be that he needs to mature alot more than we think to be a starting QB – to play with poise and know when to hang in there and throw with anticipation? While playing time does provide the growth opportunity to mature sometime you have to take a step back and watch somebody else get it done to regain your confidence that the job really can be done well within the confines of the existing circumstances.
From my observation Brodie appears to be a mature, albeit frail QB with much better QB tools than Cassel and I think the difference between them is substantial enough to warrent playing him over Cassel. Brodie has shown, to his detrement, the rocks to stands in the pocket and deliver an accurate pass in the face of the pass rush. It’s obvious to me Brodie’s skillset is recognized by the coaching staff otherwise he would not be there.
Matt couldn't move the team in preseason but the cuprit wasn't as visible then because there were plenty of things to blame. Through the process of elimination and adjustment the chiefs have gotten better. I think changing the QB is one more step in the right direction.
It's time to take the blinders off and stop making excuses for Matt Cassel because he is a great guy and has some potential. He hasn't had enough experience playing good football at any level to fall back on; to have confidence in himself he can play well in the NFL. Most third string nfl QB's have at least played well somewhere in their football career; they have something to hang their hats on in the face of adversity.
We can't let economics dictate how we proceed. The cost of doing business can blinds us to the true sometimes. If Matt Cassel didn’t cost us so much he may have had an opportunity to sit and mature behind Brodie.
Just like the Larry Johnson, Sean Ryan, Mike Cox, and Derrick Johnson situations, it may take plugging somebody else (like Brodie) in there at QB to see what Matt can’t do. We won’t be able to fairly evaluate our team if we don’t take that step.
We need some toughness and smart leadership. Brodie, to keep coming back the way he does, shows me plenty of that…I’d play my butt off for a guy like that. I ‘d fight for him too. You don’t see our lineman too eager to help Matt up off the ground. Let Brodie Play and watch our catch/drop ratio go down.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I agree but I think this whole offense is a mess though.
Hate Larry Johnson.
I looked up Brodies Stats from last game and he was
6-14 50 yards. for like 5 minutes of play but matt cassel was 10-29 for 80 yards.
I USED THE REPLY BUTTON TOO.
Hate Larry Johnson.
bah
Brodi’s stats are TERRIBLE. He cam in in garbage time and his passes were all off the mark. The D was playing in a zone to run out the clock and he couldn’t hit wide open receivers in the middle of the field.
As soon as Brodi came in I turned to my buddy and said “Now he is going to complete a few passes and all the Cassel haters are going to freak out and claim he should be the statrter, despite him playing in garbage time, prevent D.”
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 10, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
It was late in the game
They werent playing press coverage much..but they were still blitzing.
We NEED Kool-AID
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
No.
Brodi couldn’t complete passes in garbage time play. What makes you think he will do better when the offense is trying?
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 10, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
Remember the start of the season? Brodie overthrew a ton of passes in preseason and a few against baltimore. Thing is, Brodie overthrows it 5 yards. Cassel overthrows it 1 yard that most GOOD WR’s would catch.
Ah, but the quarterback has to be able to deliver the ball perfectly while being hammared by a defensive tackle!
I do so enjoy being facetious.. You have a great point there; not even Drew Brees puts every pass on the money when he’s being hit.
Nobody does
I mean sure, the great QB’s make good passes while being hit but its not like every pass they make is good or that they dont make bad passes under pressure.
Honestly, I like Croyles arm. But you need a QB who can play week in and week out and Brodie hasnt done much to prove that he can do that. Theres no reason to bench Cassel. You put your confidence in him, this offseason will likely involve alot of upgrading to the OL, and if he doesnt show considerable improvement throughout next season, THEN you have a general idea of what he can do and if he can get better.
by Petey14 on Dec 10, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Petey
That’s exactly where I’m at on the subject. I’ll rec you for that.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
The whole team sucks with Brodie.
OMG! HE DID OK IN A WEEK 1 GAME!!!!!! START HIM NOW!!!!
…hell no. Cassel is better. Gil Brandt even says…“Cassel is better than his 2009 stats indicate. He has passed for almost 2,000 yards, with 13 TDs and nine interceptions. But he’s been sacked 37 times, and the Chiefs just don’t have enough good players to help him. Cassel has a good arm, impressive accuracy and he throws a catchable ball. He will improve as the team gets better and he gets more experience.”
We have to win due to the fact that 2 of the playbook experts chose us to win this week or they may never choose us again…
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
I hear Kool-aid is coming out with some new flavors just for you NJ
Casselberry splash is the name.
Dude seriously, how long can Cassel keep stinking up Arrowhead before you finally realize how bad he is. And what trait does Cassel have that makes him better than Brodie??? Okay he’s tougher, I’ll give you that. But seriously, Brodie is a MUCH more talented QB than Cassel in EVERY aspect of the game. He is a better pure passer. His accuracy is better, he DOES NOT have the happy feet. He throws a better deep ball. He seems to make quicker adjustments and better reads. Steps away from pressure without panicking. If you want to talk about pure talent Brodie is indisputably a better QB than Cassel. I honestly can’t see how you can possibly argue any different.
That’s exactly why Brodie was drafted in the 3rd and Cassel was drafted in the 7th. The kid deserves a chance. At the same time, the best thing that could happen to #7 is a little time on the bench to get his shit together. And the best thing that could happen to Brodie would be to get some quality playing time so he can show off his skills to other teams. Maybe THEN, we can make a good trade with another team for him.
Really, letting Brodie play is the best thing for the Chiefs right now.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
Agree
Brodie needs a showcase. Best for him and best for Chiefs.
I was happy to see him in the game vs Broncos. Cassel was toast in the head :(
If Brodie is going to play for Chiefs next year he needs to step in and show it.
Yet, Brodie came in firing and not looking. Passes were great sharp and crisp.
yet had no relevance to play. Alah Huard
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Brodie Croyle is terrible
He has never won a game in the NFL. Is that a good enough stat to show that he sucks? A better question is what has Brodie Croyle ever done to actually play in the NFL. He spends more time on the training table than in the game
Brodie is a Chief
And has more than shown his dedication with all the Rehab he has had to endure.
Kolby and many more have given blood and pain endured for this team. We need to respect that if nothing else. If they need to move on unlike LJ, I say good luck and thanks for helping my team while you were here.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think thats a fair point
but I can’t stand to hear the words “Croyle” and “starting” in the same sentence. I thought Croyle was the answer when it was just him and Damon Huard, but it was fairly obvious that he didnt have the make up to be a good NFL QB. I like Thigpen as a Franchise QB more than Croyle, and by no means do I think Thigpen is going to be the franchise any time soon
Whats weird is that sometimes that guy figures it out
Hali did. from one year to the next. I am not really ready to write of Croyle when Cassel has struggled. Croyle would be a better solution for competition in the off-season than a rookie we have to spend a draft pick on. I like the QB situation as it stands with our situation as of now. Croyle and Cassel are similar in size and can both run this offense. More off-season drama is going to be a good thing to Blog on :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Casselberry Splash ... LOL ... rec just for that one, 1970
I absolutely agree with the post and your comments … except for one thing: the BEST that could happen is that Croyle plays very well and the team wins and gains confidence in him and in themselves … and if THAT were to happen, yes the front office would have a difficult time deciding what to do … play him or trade him
personally, it APPEARS as though Cassel really is that “sacred cow” … anyone else playing as badly as he has would have been benched already … or it APPEARS that Haley is lying about “competition” and “the best player being on the field” which in my mind is good cause for termination … or it APPEARS that nobody at One Arrowhead Drive cares about actually winning games which is good cause for making the team Public Domain a la the Green Bay Packers and installing Chris Thorman as GM and Joel Thorman as HC (with positions available for UCrawford, Jon Yoon and others too numerous to mention)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Well that is a damn fine idea
What would Chris and Joel Do?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
anything they did would be better than what I've seen this year
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
LOL
If we don’t have enough good player’s then why the hell did we not fix that problem before we went out and got a so called franchise QB? We should have kept that 2nd rd pick and used it on a o-line guy. How long will it take us to built a supporting cast like he had in N.E, because until then he just isn’t going to get the job done. Cassel has a good arm, but Brodie’s is better, as far as accuracy is concern Brodie beats him their too. Have you watched any games? How can you say he is so great, when he looks like shit almost every week.
Brodie has a better arm.
Cassel can take a physical beating.
Which serves us better right now?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Lol
With the line playing better now, I think Brodie would do much better.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
The line ain't that good
Sure, go ahead. Start Brodie. Give Cassel his taste of the Haley demotion treatment and when Croyle’s knee gets folded backwards in the second half we’ll see if the tactic motivated Cassel enough to stop stinking it up.
The bottom line is that the Chiefs put the cart before the horse. They didn’t build a proper foundation before decorating the house. They need to assemble a good O-line, then they can get a QB.
Croyle’s proven he’s not the answer and it looks like we’ve turned Cassel into David Carr 2.0. Neither of these guys will accomplish anything for this team and really, how could you expect them to? It’s Pioli’s job to provide the tools and it’s Haley’s job to teach the players how to use said tools. This rebuild has to be a top down effort and so far, the top dogs have a lot to prove before we can realistically get into who the QBOTF is gonna be. Until then, this topic is a massive waste of time.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I disagree
nothing has proven that Cassel can’t do the Job.
THE TEAM stank collectively against SD and Denver. Plus our rivals had as much to gain by putting is in our place. We are a Super College All-Star team. SD definitely and Denver maybe are Playoff teams. We will grow into our straps and we will show them something soon :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Soon? No
In a few years, perhaps. Pioli gets his first off-season with his own scouting staff. He has a lot to prove. Haley gets to start his off-season with the rest of the league and we’ll see what kind of staff he can assemble. We’ll see if he’s capable of releasing his kung fu death grip on (the illusion of) control and become a real head coach. If these two guys do their part appropriately, this team will be better (not saying great) next year and we’ll see what Cassel can do at QB. There still remains a whole lot of wait and see around here.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Agreed 2011 will be the Put-up or Shut-up
Who has done well in their 1st year of total control? The plus this year was we got a Pie in the face. McDaniels will probably flame out before Haley just for that reason alone.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
You have to realize that this is year number 1
They inherited a shit-burger. Not only do they have to rebuild the roster, but they have to overhaul the entire culture. NOT an easy thing to do. To a certain extent, I understand why Pioli and Haley have done some of the things they’ve done. I also think they’ve made their fair share of rookie mistakes as well. Next year should result in some improvement. I think Pioli and Haley have the most to prove. I honestly give Cassel somewhat of a pass because those two didn’t do much to set him up for success.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
But they did!
Cassel has his own team to lead or fail, and some money too.
Let’s see what Cassel is made of. Should be fun.
It’s all in the journey IMO
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
Oh shoot, Steve, You're right! What was I thinking?
$63million is set up for success! I suppose I’d run for my life for that kinda cheese too.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Damn Straight
We all wish for that.
Cassel is a Pro
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Viola
One of my Favs
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
Buck, thing is they DIDN'T have to rebuild the entire roster ... they just decided to do it anyway
and, like Carl a few years ago, they went after old, washed up vets … not the way to build or rebuild, and that’s why Herm had to tear down and start the rebuild LAST year
sadly he wasn’t allowed to finish what he started ONE year ago, more’s the pity
as far as Pioli making “rookie mistakes” … since when is he a “rookie?” wasn’t he supposed to be the “Genius GM” behind the Pats and all their SBs? yet he comes in and has no clue where to begin, who to get, what to do … no plan whatsoever and apparantly not the foggiest idea that this team even NEEDED an O-Line … and THAT’S bordering on Epic Fail if not downright stupid
now, assuming that Pioli isn’t plain stupid, then we’re left with only a couple of possibilities: either he’s so arrogant he thinks he can build Rome in a day and has failed in the most remarkable manner, or he’s too lazy to do any research to figure out what he has to work with upon being hired, or he came in with the idea that this is a complete “throwaway” season … I’ll go with the last one
now, personally I don’t have (can’t afford" season tickets (and live in Denver so it would be a bit of a commute to games) but … if I were a ticket holder, and yes as a fan … that last idea makes me furious … yet it’s the only logical thing I can come up … again, short of laziness, stupidity or arrogance
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Dec 9, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Pioli had blown the whole wad on somebody
alah Washington, would we be better in the long term. NO
There is a plan and maybe this was the brushfire season.
Clean off the prairie so something could grow for the future.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
Good analogy Steve
I like that.
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Dec 10, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
it would be except that Herm tore down the building and dug the basement a year ago ...
… so it makes no sense for Pioli to come in with a backhoe and fill in that foundation only to dig out a new one again
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
It was a management decision
We all deal with those.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
The house was in the wrong place :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
So what would you have the Organization do upamtn?
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Dec 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
an actual PLAN would be nice
had a similar chat with Slappy yesterday – my take is that Pioli came in here with no clue, no plan, no idea what he had much less what to do about it
Slappy more or less agreed (while coming from a different perspective) and said he thinks Pioli’s “throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks”
I’ll but that, but I detest the idea that he’d do that at all … what a colossal waste of time, money and a disrespect and disservice to fans
he got his “Franchise QB” (one I’d like to see on the bench the next 4 wks) but didn’t bother with an O-Line … you build/rebuild thru the draft and you start with the line, not with the QB … you can’t build a house w/o a foundation, but he added this very nice (or supposed to be very nice) roof (6 year warranty, very good quality they say but I have my doubts) but he never got the foundation done …
a year ago Herm dug out the basement and started the foundation … this year Pioli rents a backhoe, fills it all in and starts digging agin, willy nilly … then slams a house part down on top of it all
that’s not a plan, not a process … that’s arrogance that he thinks he can succeed on the fly
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
True to that
Pioli is an arrogant and lucky SOB IMO. He will forever be perceived as the man who helped build the Patriots dynasty along with Belichick. BUt he continues on to pull off crap like #7 long term deal just because… he may tarnish everything and all his credibility.
Everyone and any expert will admit that Tom Brady in the 6th round in 2000 was nothing more than pure luck. We can all see how many more late round and FA QBs that Pioli picked up while with the Pats that didn’t pan out. I’m beginning to believe it now that #7 is true full time starter.
I will be my left nut that if Pioli and Haley knew what they know about #7 today, there was no way in hell they’d trade a 2nd RD pick for him or sign him to that 6 year deal. He is an average QB at best, but a very dependable backup, stop gap QB if the team’s starter were to get injured.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
I both agree and disagree
They didn’t have to tear down the roster and they didn’t have to fire Herm Edwards. Both true. They did however make changes at the top and leaving Herm in place would have meant that Pioli salvage the legacy of the previous regime. I’d say some might take the GM job and be ok with that and others wouldn’t. I for one would want to get straight to the business of stamping my name all over the organization and I probably would have done what Pioli did. I can’t really say I fault him for that. I do think the late start and the foot dragging hurt this year in a big way.
I say Pioli is a rookie because it’s his first year as a GM anywhere. Really does make him a rookie. :) Afterall, he doesn’t have Belichik’s guiding hand to keep things steady. He was actually Exec VP of Player Personnel, never GM before. His two biggest rookie mistakes IMO are not acquiring proper O-linemen to protect his big QB investment and not doing more to demand that Haley focus on being the HC and allowing him to take on the additional roles of OC and QB coach. Way much faith in Haley if you ask me.
I do however completely agree with you that this year was viewed by many at the top of Chiefs organization that this year was a throw away year. I’ve said it since before the season started, the pressure is off and they’re going to take advantage of it. Sucks a big one but I think that’s the general attitude. As such, I think that’s why they blew up everything they intended on changing anyway.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Dude..thats not entirely true
You cant win with nothing but young dudes. That was Herms mistake. You need more Veteran presence.
He used the draft to add some young guys, traded for Cassel and O’Callaghan who is playing RT better than anything we’ve had for 2 seasons. Everything else he did was simply IMPROVE what we had. Who would you rather have playing in Vrabels position right now? McBride? Studebaker? You know Studebaker wouldnt be anything right now without the tremendous help hes gotten from Vrabel. Chambers is older..hes better than anything else we have other than Bowe right now.
Wade hasnt been too good but hes had his good games. He’s not that old..28. Lance Long MIGHT (I say might because im not a big fan of him) turn into a decent option. Hes a rookie.
Goff, we thought, was better than Adrian Jones, but it looks like Wade Smith is holding it down right now. I expect this position to be upgraded this offseason.
I mean he didnt just add a bunch of old scrubs. He brought in a couple old dudes who didnt pan out, but the leadership they brought was priceless, especially from Vrabel. I agree with what Pioli is doing. You evaluate the draft throughout the year, by the end of the season, you know where youre drafting. THEN you start to build your draft board, and prioritize your needs. THEN you decide what to do via draft/FA. If you can get a long term solution for a position of need through FA, DO IT. Wilfork, Dansby, Mankins, Hampton..whoever its going to be. THEN you adjust your draft board. Finally, you decide what players youre going after in the draft. Whatever you dont think can be filled in the draft, fill through FA, regardless of rage, IF they still having something to bring to the table, and draft accordingly.
Its not just what you do in FA that determines what you do in the draft, but its also what you plan to do in the draft, HELPS determine what to do in FA. They have a MUCH better idea of what our biggest needs are and how they can be filled. Youre never going to get through an offseason flawlessly. There will be hits and misses. But if you can get a long term fix at key positions..for instance those players I mentioned could fill NT, MLB and OG..thats 3 less holes you need to focus on in the draft.
Its EASY to say NOW we needed OL bad. But that wasnt the solid case back then. Most of us were split between the bad OL that played better once we switched to the Arrowspread, and the bad DL that recorded a RECORD LOW in sacks. You cant fix them both. Now the only position the DL needs is NT and I’m willing to bet it gets filled in FA. Idk if it’ll be Wilfork or Hampton or neither but I do think it will be filled in FA.
We added Goff in the offseason and several people thought it would HELP..not fix..but HELP the OL. that backfired. You can blame them all you want but it happens to every other team in the league too. Pioli KNOWS you cant build a team in 1 season, HES MENTIONED that several times, and I doubt hes too lazy considering the guys hes brought in. Lets be honest..hes brought in alot of guys and even the backups..some of them arent that good. BUT..look at the guys that Pioli replaced. They were WORSE than the backups we picked up..and those guys arent that good. That should speak VOLUMES about what we had.
This isnt a “throwaway” season. Its an evaluation season. And at this point, we have more wins, than last season with 3 games left, 2 of them very winnable and 1 of them being a division game. So we’ve lost alot..but we have more wins. Thats an improvement aint it?
To be honest, I’m purchasing season tickets next season. Why? Because a few years ago, it was known that there were WAITING LISTS to get season tickets..now theres no list. Hell, they call the ex-season ticket holders trying to sell them back. But it’ll be nice not having to wait for season tickets in the future when the fans start coming back to the games.
by Petey14 on Dec 10, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec
Agree, 4 games though :)
just nitpicking
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
he didnt get hurt vs. the Ravens
just sayin : ) Who knows? Maybe he did some extra work in the offseason to help prevent injuries…
….or maybe the Ravens D wasn’t all that it has been the past decade since Ryan’s departure
Me too.
Just got back from the store. Doin a little Cassel bashin! Like usual LOL.!!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
All I have to say is this
It would be bullshit if Croyle got to go in against the Bills and the Browns when Cassel has had to deal all the quality teams this season. People soon forget that he had 260 yards and 2 TD’s against the Steelers and singlehandedly kept us in the game against the Cowboys
by DBOWESHOW on Dec 10, 2009 12:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
At one point Cassel was 7 of 17
and that was with 7 blatant drops, so where does his lack of skill come in? His play calling only allows him to chuck it down field a few times a game and that is mostly in the second half, so he is always throwing check down routes that our receivers cant catch due to lack of separation or brick hands or whatever it may be. He has been getting more time lately but the problem really is with the receivers, they simply cant catch the ball or get open. Granted Cassel does make errors, but i don’t see where you can say brodie is better?
swish
disagree...I doubt that all the x nfl players who are sports commentators are all wrong
he has been called out several times for his confused jittery actions and his getting all flustered and taking way too long to make a decision. As the post pointed out defenses just create havoc at the line and he gets all messed up.
If you're talking about the Broncos game...
then there weren’t “seven blatant drops” in that 7 of 17. The very first pass from scrimmage – in the right flat to Cox – was way the hell behind him. No way does Cox catch that ball. The next pass – the famous deep pass to Wade – was probably as much the fault of Cassel as the receiver. Could Wade have caught up to it? Maybe so. But the ball was overthrown; everybody with an opinion seems to agree that in order to catch it, Wade would have had to lay out. That’s an overthrown ball… in every state of the Union.
Look… I’m not saying the receivers don’t have something to do with what’s been happening with Cassel. They certainly do. But some of blame rests on him, too.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
He's pressing, we all see it
unless we have a Croyle agenda or just flat dislike him.
Letting Croyle play made sense. it just doesn’t matter
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Please remind me of Croyle's exact starter record.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 9, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
please spell out how last year is relevant to this year?
or the year before that …
let’s look at what both bring to the table: better arm? Croyle … better pocket presence? Croyle … better at reading defenses? Croyle … better sense of timing? Croyle …
see? that was easy …
oh, you want to look at THIS year? how many games did Croyle start? one, yes at Baltimore and it was a loss …
how many games did Cassel start before he won A SINGLE GAME? hmmmm?
by your reasoning, Cassel should have been back on the bench after Game 3, having 2 solid losses under his belt
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Great Point upamtn
you think we should retire number 12 right now or wait until he wins 6 consecutive superbowls starting next year?
DBOWESHOW - I do think we should wait til AFTER he wins those 6 SBs
… which will be a lot sooner than #7 does
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
DBOWESHOW
If you’re a collector of football cards, would you want to buy Matt Cassel autograph rookie card from me for $500? He is after all the MAN who’s gonna win us a superbowl. Why not get them now cheap before he reaches that potential all the kool aid drinkers are eluding to. Forget that, I’ll give you a deal, I’ll let you have five Matt Cassel’s rookie autograph cards for $500.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
58 - throw in a double batch of brownies and I'll take that deal *grinning*
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Croyle is nothing but a backup. I never want to see him start another game for us.
Tyler frickin Thigpen has 1 win under his belt in the woeful 2-14 season.
Tyler frickin Thigpen could take a hit.
Tyler frickin Thigpen was mobile.
If he wasn’t so inaccurate, I bet he would be the 2nd QB of this team.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 6:43 AM CST up reply actions
if Thigpen wasn't so inaccurate he MIGHT have been the starter
and if Thigpen was less mobile, he’d be … (wait for it) … Matt Cassel
right now I’d take Croyle over Cassel in a heartbeat
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Cassel
stares down his WRs, NEVER pump fakes, has jitters in the pocket, is usualy late on his release witch makes it MUCH harder on the WR, TE, or RB to make the catch as the odds of getting drilled go up. That leads to DROPPED passes. He is also off target on most throws over 10 yards. It seems that he looks at his #1 option and if its not available has a hard time finding options 2-4 witch tells me he has only a limited understanding of the playbook witch is not exceptable of a starting QB in the NFL.
Bottom line Matt Cassel is NOT a good starting QB and needs to get benched maybe he gets better maybe he does not. Right now he is not good enough to be our starting QB.
I agree but I need to correct you here
Cassel stares down his WRs,
You should have use singular when describing receivers. If #7 could really stare down more than 1 receiver, he may have made quicker decisions.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
stares down his WRs, NEVER pump fakes, has jitters in the pocket, is usualy late on his release
If any of that was true, I’d agree with you. Do you not remember the big plays to Chambers are usually after a pump fake?
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
by cpa913 on Dec 10, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone said this about Trent Green too
He turned out like a NFL QB…give the man time and weapons….you cant make chicken soup out of chicken shit
by cassel4prez on Dec 9, 2009 8:01 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It'll take a little more time for Cassel, I believe
When Trent landed with the Chiefs, he had the luxury of multiple pro-bowlers at various positions on the offense. He wasn’t expected to come in and be a leader. ALL he had to do was focus on learning the scheme and getting the ball to his receivers (one of which was a pro-bowler as well).
The job as a tad bigger for Cassel at this point.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Well written and some good arguments here skip
However, I disagree with some of it.
The argument regarding Croyle is a moot point, IMO. Croyle has clearly indicated that he cannot stay healthy and QB is the one position where you need the same guy week in and week out. That alone ends this debate, IMO.
Croyle had six games of extended action in 2007 (his longest stretch, by far) and completed 56% of his passes and a 1:1 TD to INT ratio…slightly higher completion percentage, slightly lower TD to INT ratio. I respect your opinion that Croyle is better but the statistics do not hold that up.
Regarding the money, it’s not really a big deal and isn’t holding anything back. The coaches think Cassel’s the better QB, that’s it. Cassel’s contract is a little above average in the NFL (12-15 range) so this isn’t a JaMarcus Russell situation by any means.
Why did the staff keep Croyle? He’s cheap, in the last year of his contract and is familiar with some of the players. I think Croyle’s a good backup QB because he’s got some experience and good fill a hole for a week or two. Past history has indicated that asking Croyle to start more than a handful of games is not a good idea.
One question for you though….on the one hand, you knock Cassel for not having any experience…..on the other hand, you say, " If Matt Cassel didn’t cost us so much he may have had an opportunity to sit and mature behind Brodie." Now sitting is a good idea?
We’ve gone through this exact argument about 100 times and probably 20 times this week. The stats don’t say Croyle is clearly the better QB and, if he’s going to see any time, he better be clearly better than Cassel because he has proven he’s not reliable as a week in, week out starter in the NFL.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 9, 2009 8:14 PM CST reply actions 12 recs
Also, regarding the money part
To further my point that I don’t think money has anything to do with it….
Haley has said numerous times that he leans on his past experiences and mentors to help him make decisions. In the past, he’s been part of Parcells staff when they played Glenn Foley over Vinny Testaverde, part of Parcells staff again when they played Tony Romo over Drew Bledsoe, and on Whisenhunt’s staff when they played Kurt Warner over Matt Leinart.
Three examples of him being part of a staff that does not play the big money guy. That’s another part of the reason I think the money plays no part in this.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 9, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Never really looked into that but you are absolutely correct.
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
I guess Joe Montana wasn't a Legit starter in the NFL was he Joel?
How long did he spend on IR? How many games did he miss with us due to hamstrings?
QB’s take the worst of the hits, they’re standing there, prone, throwing the ball. The worst shots you can take in any sport are the ones you don’t see coming.
I say give Croyle a chance, if he gets injured your point is made, if he succeeds in the last 4 games……..
by mcclanahanman on Dec 9, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
agreed 100%
we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by starting Croyle
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Dec 9, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't agree with that...
It’s doubtful Croyle will even be on our team in a few years…And Cassel will probably be the QB at that time…
I think everybody is freaking out a bit much here…With the recievers he has been stuck with, with Bowe suspended, even Peyton would be stinking it up.
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
well, thing with Peryton is ... it's like having a real OC on the field
which is more than we have on the sidelines
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
please never compare Brodie Croyle and Joe Montana ever again
dont even use their names in the same sentence, or the same paragraph for that matter. In fact, the word Croyle should never be uttered after the words “Joe” or “Montana” are mentioned.
by DBOWESHOW on Dec 10, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Brodie's a young guy with a lot of potential
No he’s not in the same class as Montana, but they had the same frailty concerns coming out of college.
The way everyone is talking a young Montana never would have made it here in KC. We don’t know what we have in Brodie yet, if the guy had an O-line I’d say he’d be dangerous.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 10, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
And Montana had amazing receivers, too.
We have neither. I’m hard pressed to see how any obtainable QB could succeed in this offense right now.
And Brodie’s “frailty concerns” were verified in the NFL, whereas Montana’s weren’t. That’s why so many are against him on this board…if he couldn’t stay healthy the past two years, how would he take the pummeling this year’s terrible line is giving out?
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 10, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
and don't forget
who Montana was under for his first two seasons…Steve DeBerg. Not a bad guy to learn under.
Montana’s frailty came out, how many hamstrings did he have here in KC? How long was he on IR in San Francisco? San Fran brought in Young because of Montana’s injury concerns……..
By the time Montana was starting, the 9er’s had a decent O-line, that they continued to build on. They drafted Rice, Jones and Taylor with him in mind. He had good receivers before them, Clark comes to mind, but I can’t think of anyone in Taylor’s class much less Rice’s.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 10, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
is there a source
or link stating that they brought Young in because of Montana’s durability concerns? It was my belief, that the reason why Young was brought in, was because Walsh was impressed by his natural ability after being labeled a “bust” in Tampa Bay for two years. Montana had been with the team since ’79, full time starter, I think, since ’80, and had won two Super Bowls before Young showed up in ’87. Montana was a solid starter for that team for 7 years before Young was even a thought.
I think Young was a talented player that the rest of the league had given up on, Walsh, being the genius he was, saw he could be had for cheap, and with the Bucs drafting Vinny, fleeced them (2nd and a 4th) and a team as solid and talented as the ’80s 49ers, they could afford it (and Young still sat behind Montana for three seasons). It was Walsh collecting as much talent as he could, no more, no less.
I do remember Walsh being lambasted for trading two picks for a QB that had a record, as a starting QB, of 3-16, while throwing 11 touchdowns and 21 interceptions.
But, if you have some quotes or links that say otherwise, I’d love to read them. That 49ers team was a childhood favorite and I love to learn as much as I can about them.
smart ass answer in 3...2...1...
i believe joe montana had two hamstrings.
by MountainManMike on Dec 11, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Give Croyle a chance and see if he gets injured???
Again??? How many times do we beat our collective head against this brick wall?
Haley
Has a long ways to go to get any respect from me. I believe we could do more with C.Gailey, at least he adjust his play calling to fit what we have on the field as players. Haley makes no adjustments from 1 quarter to the next.
There is no doubt the offense would have been better THIS YEAR with Gailey.
I think Haley just didn’t want to wait to implement the offense that was eventually going to be here anyway.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
WE
Better draft o-line guys with the first 2 picks if we want Cassel to be good here, because without 10 seconds to throw the ball, he is junk.
I agree .
Although, we both know our 1st pick will be spent on the Defense
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
I know
We can hope for FS or SS, and or a NT, with the first if not trade down. I ws hoping for Ukung or Wiesniewski
This is a business and business decisions are made regularly in the NFL
Cassel was declared the starter as soon as Pioli became the GM in KC. Tyler said it and he was asked to be quiet and thankful that he had a job. Tony G. knew it and wanted not part of it. Brian Waters probably had something to say about all of the changes; that being one of them but he couldn’t be heard.
Every team makes money decisions on a regular basis. It would be foolish think that every guy whose getting paid is the best at his position on the team. If that were the case there would be no such thing as Free Agency. Talent eveluation in the NFL is not a perfect science by any means that’s why there is constant change of personnel at ALL levels. Team leaders don’t always make right choices and just because the organisation has crowned their high price player as the starter doesn’t mean he is right for the circumstance. I actually think our circumstance requires a veteran presence or at least a stronge stable leadership presence on the field. Brodie is a long way ahead of Cassel in that regard.
I ask you to take an honest look at Cassel and tell me why is is better than Croyle. Stats from 2 years ago don’t mean anything, they don’t tell the true story of what Croyle is compared to Cassel. The only knock on Croyle is his propensity to get hurt and while that is big it only tells us what has happened in the past. It doesn’t mean he will get hurt again.
Croyle has loads of talent. Has been the best QB on the roster since he got here (Yes, he had better QB tools than Trent when he left).
Heck, Trent had bunches of time to sit back there and make decisions and a GREAT running game to support him. He had everything a QB could ask for….including no excuse for failing to win a playoff game.
Every year Broie’s been here he’s had to learn a brand new offense and he’s played in all of them with poise and confidence. The team crumbled around him. Brodie’s never had a legitamate running game or played with any decent recievers beyond TG. HE’s PLAYED BEHIND OFFESIVE LINES THAT WERE THE WORST IN THE NFL.
All he has done is go to work. He reminds me of the old great QB’s that played thru anything if they could manage to stand up. Brodie is a winner he hasn’t done it here yet but he has done it everywhere else he’s played. You can’t keep coming back like he does if you’re not a winner. Brodie has “IT”. I think you will change you tune if you see him play now that we have some better talent around him.
I heard you very clear
Nobody comes back time after time if they’re not truly cut out to be a football player. Brodie could have ride his horse into the sunset with his hottie wife and leave this thing called football behind but yet he kept returning from being written-off. Whether its in Alabama or here in KC. he is a fighter, a survivor. In time, most would say that his ability to work through adversity early in his career may transcend to heaps of football wisdom. yes he is ways ahead of Cassel in this regard. He never shy away from all this negativity surrounding his propensity to get hurt. He does have the “IT” factor.
Brodie is a winner he hasn’t done it here yet but he has done it everywhere else he’s played. You can’t keep coming back like he does if you’re not a winner. Brodie has "IT".
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Rebuttal
Cassel was declared the starter as soon as Pioli became the GM in KC. Tyler said it and he was asked to be quiet and thankful that he had a job. Tony G. knew it and wanted not part of it. Brian Waters probably had something to say about all of the changes; that being one of them but he couldn’t be heard.
Much of this is speculation to support your case. Of course Tyler felt that way but my previous example of Haley starting the non-money guy over the money guy on three separate occasions I think illustrates his willingness to throw the money out the window. Plus, Thigpen won one game last season, he probably doesn’t have much of an argument.
I actually think our circumstance requires a veteran presence or at least a stronge stable leadership presence on the field. Brodie is a long way ahead of Cassel in that regard.
I’m confused on this one. Cassel had started twice as many games as Croyle coming into this season and had been in the league longer, so your point about veteran presence would indicate Cassel, not Croyle. Plus, I think it warrants mention that Cassel’s leadership is consistently mentioned by all the analysts, coaches and fellow players. It probably doesn’t matter, but spending time behind Tom Brady is probably better for the leadership aspect of your game than playing behind Damon Huard. Could be wrong on that one, though.
I ask you to take an honest look at Cassel and tell me why is is better than Croyle. Stats from 2 years ago don’t mean anything, they don’t tell the true story of what Croyle is compared to Cassel. The only knock on Croyle is his propensity to get hurt and while that is big it only tells us what has happened in the past. It doesn’t mean he will get hurt again.
Why is he better? Statistically, he’s performed better than him in just about every major category, he wins more games and he stays healthy.
“Stats from two years ago don’t mean anything…” Really? I’d say how a player performs throughout his career means a lot. That’s pretty much the basis of the entire NFL draft…what players have done for the last couple years.
“…it only tells us what has happened in the past. It doesn’t mean he will get hurt again.” The best indicator of the future history is past history and in the past Croyle has not demonstrated he can hold up to a full NFL season.
And the big thing about Croyle’s injuries for me is that they date back to high school. He had a shoulder injury in high school, shoulder injury in college, knee problem in college, knee problem in the pros…I just don’t understand why you’re trying to argue that it would be different this time.
To me, when people say he has “it” it means that they don’t have enough statistical data to backup their claim. What is “it”? It’s nothing. If Croyle had put up a solid season in the pros, and then someone claimed he had “it”, maybe that would mean something. But so far Croyle hasn’t put up good numbers in the NFL, hasn’t stayed healthy dating back to high school and hasn’t won a game.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 10, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also: On leadership
Every one he has ever worked with in this career has said he is one of the most inspirational leaders they’ve had on their teams…
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
Joel, I know what you are saying about the stats and all but...
Brodie has matured A LOT since then and this offense is much more suited to a QB like him than Herm’s offense.
He just LOOKS better out there to me. I can tell the difference as soon as he steps on the field.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
I 2nd that
You see it right there when Brodie’s about to hike the ball as he stares at the defense. And then you see a lack of confidence when the cameras zoom in on #7 as he stares at the defense.
If the Cassel supporters truly believe that Cassel will become better given better supporting cast, its a great reason to let him take a step back and ride the bench for the rest of this season. It may do him some good to take some pressure off of him. Cassel is over-whelmed for everything and anything he had to endured. I don’t think he was every ready to be this team’s leader. he may act and talk like he is but his command on the field and amongst his WR, it does not show.
Put Croyle in. 1970 called it dead on. Brodie has put on weight and with Haley’s style of camp and practices, it made Brodie tougher and more mature.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
We will see
I agree that Croyle looks bigger, his NFL career is on the line. Croyle is also I think going to be a Free agent after this season. Might Croyle be the one, sure. How will we figure that out. Cassel is starting vs Buffalo according to Haley. What would make Pioli reconsider Croyle as THE guy now? What needs to happen.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Branden Albert needs to take a play off
Much like this guy Zebrie Sanders in the Florida State game.
If it takes an injury to #7 to make Pioli let Haley play Brodie, so be it.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Definition of taking a play off
here’s the link of the Florida St game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHqrcXFnXbM
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
There...
has to be an explanation for that. It wasn’t like it was delayed, he stood still for the entire play.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Dec 10, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
I do hope that you're not serious.
Wishing an injury on one of your own team’s players is against any sense of being a fan that I’ve ever been aware of. How about we let Mr. Croyle beat out Mr. Cassel in practice, if he’s capable of doing so?
by DanielUM on Dec 10, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention that Brodie was starting for teams that had better players
Cassel is playing with nothing at all. Players that would be backups on most other teams.
Defending the Cassel since 2009
How can you say that?
Who were the WRs on the 2007 squad?…Remember Gonzo is NOT a WR.
BTW: the O-line is playing better now than it did at ANY point in 2007 Kyle freakin Turley was our RT! Do you remember how bad of a fiasco that was?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Tony Gonzalez may not have been a wide receiver...
but he’s an absolute nightmare of a matchup for most linebackers and safeties, and is terrific at catching the ball in space. A great tight end is a young quarterback’s best friend.
You know what
I bet everyone on here including myself have pretty much turned off Brodie sometime last year around week 2 as he made his way to IR. But none of us know what that time off going to rehab did for him. We don’t know. it may have given him a whole different perspective sittin from afar and seeing how the team transcend from herm to todd.
But one thing was clear. Out of nowhere we hear all this great things about the QB looking best during camp. and it was not Cassel or Thigpen. Suddenly this forgotten name Croyle re-emerged. Then in that one game where he came in and drove the offense down the field and scored in pre-season, it all click about what everyone was saying about Croyle. Brodie looked the best IN CAMP, IN PRE-SEASON, IN WEEK 1 vs Ravens, and again, he looked like he had command of the offense in the 4th QTR of the Denver game.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Agree to disagree
He was confident, yet the offense didn’t move. WR’s maybe is the problem for all of us.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 10, 2009 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Prevent D...
75% of the yardage and td’s that cassel has racked up has been in the 4th quarter when teams are in prevent D…..just saying
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Dec 10, 2009 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
To add to it
KC with Cassel led offense have yet to produce a TD in the 1st Quarter as well.
… just saying :)
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Look
At how Haley called the game. We take 1 deep shot early, and almost get it, mostly from the shock that he threw it that deep. Then we don’t do in again until we are so far behind that it doesn’t matter. Haley and or Cassel needs to go deep more, because the other team’s are sending the house and playing the short pass.
It's easy to look confident in garbage time
Especially if the other team is trying to play out the game and escape without injuries, and it’s easier to look decent in the preseason against second-string players and vanilla defenses. And please, let’s not overestimate the Ravens defense this year – they’re aging, lacking good cornerbacks, and have a new defensive coordinator.
Plus, lest we forget- on the Chiefs touchdown vs. Denver, Croyle managed -1 yards passing, and then benefited from a Charles touchdown run, making the score 41-13. He managed to have a lengthy drive at the end of the game, but then, so has Matt Cassel in a few games this year.
Here’s the difference- Cassel actually put points on the board on those drives- Croyle did not on Sunday.
KC vs BAL
Week 1. The game was 17-14 in the 3rd quarter. I believe that a lot of all of the 1st three quarters can’t be considered garbage time. Croyle not only held his own but had command of the offense (at that time, it was a 1 week old system where Haley had fired Gailer 1+ week prior) and a Croyle led team went toe to toe with a fresh and healthy Ravens D.
Who knows with consecutive weeks of the same offensive scheme, Croyle would not have taken this offense further. Plus Croyle did not loose that game, our young defense gave up huge plays in the 4th. The Ravens game was a lot closer than the final score. If given the more experience and coehsive defensive unit that we have today playing in that game, KC might have pulled it off and Croyle would have been 1-0 to start the season.
just saying…
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
That game was about right on score at the end
It was a total team effort and Croyle did struggle early in Baltimore, once Thigpen went in for a series and Croyle came back, it was a whole other ballgame at the QB position. I don’t know what Haley or whoever said to Croyle, but it made a hell of a difference.
In week 2 I watched that game from kickoff to the last play, Cassel played fairly well but he lost us that game with those 2 picks.
Cassel’s inaccuracy, and I’m not talking completion percentage, I’m talking ball placement, has been a big part of our season going down the tubes.
If Cassel loses the Buffalo game, hand Croyle the ball.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 10, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Our defensive unit is hardly better than it was.
Brodie didn’t look that great outside of a drive and a half in that Ravens game. Our D did keep us in that until the 4th.
And if you want to make the argument that our defense “lost” that game for Brodie, I’d pose that Cassel should have wins over Oakland and Dallas.
just saying…=)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 10, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Funny you mention Oak and Dallas
Who knows if Brodie was the QB in the Oak and Dallas game, we might have won it.
just saying…
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Oh c'mon.
You cannot say that at all. At least when you were making declarations about the defense, you were able to base it off of the game itself.
Declaring Brodie would’ve beat Oakland and Dallas is showing your utter Cassel hatred. I’ve gone about this while holding a certain amount of neutrality between Matt and Brodie, but I can’t hold a discussion with someone who is so far against one viewpoint that they can’t see the other. Sorry.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Didn't Cassel drive the team down the field for a late 4th quarter TD to take the lead?
Then our remarkable (sarcasm) defense blew it. How could Brodie have done any better. Cassel gave us the lead with less than 2 minutes to go. I’m not sure what else he could possibly have done to do better
by Fourstrike89 on Dec 10, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
Good memory
That was a good moment for him – too bad JaMarcus Russell decided he wanted to play NFL quarterback at the Chiefs’ expense.
I would rather have Matt Cassel as a starter simply because he has proven he CAN be the QB of a competent team
11-5 in your first year as a full fledged starter is certainly no joke. Who knows what would have happened had they made the playoffs. Certainly doesn’t help Brodie’s case that he has pretty bad injury problems (those haven’t shown up this year yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised)
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
by SuperTurtle on Dec 9, 2009 8:17 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Dude
He was play for a team that went without a loss the year before. Using that point proves nothing to me or anyone who understands that most backup QB’s could have went their and play as well as he did. That argument is as old as my caveman ass
+1
Any decent QB with knowledge of the system could have been successful there last year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 9, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
Chiefsfan, I'm not targeting you specifically, even though I answer a lot of your posts...
I am truly enjoying your perspective on things.
I have to say, as I’ve said before, that the New England passing game is predicated on receiver and quarterback reading the same things before and after the snap and adjusting their routes accordingly. There are a number of decent QBs in the NFL now, that have stuck for years, that could not read the defense effectively enough to run that offense.
And Cassel and the WR of the week would tend to have issues with that IMO
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
SuperTurtle ... see, there's the fatal flaw in your argument: you qualify it as a COMPETENT team
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Yah I don't thik putting Brodie in would solve anything and would just mess things up for us
becuase let’s say that he comes in for a couple of games and starts this year. Let’s say he does a great job. Well, then we will all want him to start for us. Then he’ll get all the first team reps in OTA and thru preseason and then he’ll get hurt and our back up will suck.
I think at this point we have to stick it out with Cassel. I believe we get a solid QB to compete against Cassel next off season. I don’t know who and I don’t have any answers because I don’t know college players. BUt that seems to be the best solution I’ve heard thus far.
But right now Cassel is the starter and that’s that. I think it would be useless all the way around to change the QB position at all this year. With some teams a QB change can be a catalyst. Like the Titans. It took them out of a rut. Gave them a spark. But their team is pretty much in place. Their not rebuilding.
We are rebuilding. So it wouldn’t matter if Peyton Manning came here. The talent level of the team as a whole is poor. We still wouldn’t have made the playoffs with any QB no matter what.
Even getting a Peyton Manning type QB here in KC at this point would be equivelant to putting a fresh coat of paint on a condemned building. So let’s let Cassel finish what he started. Plus then we’ll know. He won’t be able to hide behind excuses any longer.
by krayfish on Dec 9, 2009 8:59 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Very nicely said Kray. +1 on it.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Dec 9, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
If Croyle performs he would want that 2nd contract which the Chiefs won't give him
Playing Croyle with positive results would IMO not hurt the Chiefs, Pioli has made his choice.
If Croyle plays well we will possibly get a trade offer or we could tag him and pick up a better draft pick. Not much more than that though. As I thought of Pollard and TG good luck :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
there's probably some truth to that
he’s an emergency stop gap in case of catastrophic injury to Cassel. Remember earlier in the season (I don’t remember which game it was) when they pulled Cassel… They put Gut in. NOT Croyle. And they did it for a reason.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
and that, if true, is sad ...
Croyle is younger and has a far better arm than Cassel … I’d prefer that Croyle be our QBotF and Cassel be the “stopgap” … Croyle just has a far better “upside”
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Dec 10, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
True to that UPAMTN
Croyle just has a far better "upside"
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
What?
I have got to disagree man…There is no upside to Brodie…..at all… He has proven he cannot play in this league and will likely be out of the league after his rookie contract.
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Does anyone remember the game
Where Croyle threw an interception, then got hurt trying to tackle the player who intercepted the ball. And he missed the tackle! He ended missing two games because of that shannanagan. It literally blows my mind that there are people who think he has “toughened up” in one off season. That he has become so tough we can disregard his entire injured career including that ridiculous display of fragility I started this comment with. Brodie is a great backup QB but unfortunatley can not be trusted to be the starting QB. At this point I would give more validity to a “draft McCoy” argument against Cassel than a “start Croyle” argument. I really hope that Brodie goes to another team next year so this argument will end in the same way the Thigpen discussion did. With Brodie as a backup QB on another team. That will at least end these debates that are more based on peoples gut feeling than on tangible evidence
by Fourstrike89 on Dec 10, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmmm...don't remember which game.
But i do remember it happening though. Dude, this guys career has been over since last years Titans game. Gretz wrote about it at the time. Saw Brodie in the tunnel in an aircast, crying because he knew it was over, he can’t last.
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"a great backup QB but ..."
isn’t that what they said about Cassel in NE before Brady got hurt a year ago?
tangible evidence is what many of us see on the field week to week, especially lately … Cassel looks lost, scared and not at all like a starting QB … why is it that so many of you either can’t or refuse to see that, or think it’s some kind of personal insult that maybe Cassel needs to sit for a few weeks? if Croyle doesn’t get it done, fine … so what? we’ve lost nothing by trying that …
but gee … what if he DOES … then what?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I was not referring to Cassel's play
or whether or not he is the future QB for the Chiefs. Personally, I think Cassel has the potential to be a solid QB. Regardless of Cassel, my point is that Brodie has done absolutley nothing except get injured and show an occasional flash of being a “decent” QB. There is not a single shred of evidence to support that he can withstand the physical tole of being a starting NFL QB, but there is mountains of proof showing he is as fragile as my 7 year old neice. However people have commented that he has “it”, and that he has “toughened up” in one off season of rehab. And where is the proof of this new found “toughness”? He survived a game against Baltimore. That’s it. If you think Cassel is a flop and should be replaced then you probably have an argument to stand on. But thinking that Croyle is the answer based purely on how he looked in a few preseason games and one regular season game then you are ignoring the obvious. He is weak. Literally. He has a weak body that will fold quicker than a wet paper towel.
And to answer “what have we lost by trying Croyle for a few weeks?” Time. Plain and simple. Starting Croyle over any other QB simply delays the inevitable of having to find a legitimate franchise QB. At least with the Cassel experiment they are trying to do just that. I made this same argument FOR Croyle whenever Huard was started over Croyle (that is for the few games that Croyle wasn’t on the DL or IR). The Chiefs new exactly what they had in Huard at the time. He wasn’t going to magically become an MVP QB overnight. Therefore they were wasting more time with Croyle on the bench. Now, the same thing applies to Croyle. They know exactly what they have in him. A decent arm but a liablility because you never know if he is going to get back up after that last sack (and we know he is going to be sacked often with this team). You simply can not build a franchise around a guy that you aren’t even sure can finish a quarter of play, let alone a game in its entirety. Croyle will not be the starting QB for the Chiefs ever again. I would rather see Gutierrez play at this point than Croyle. At least then we would be trying to find an answer at QB
To conclude my small rant, If you hate Cassel, then that’s ok. But to suggest Croyle could be the legitimate answer is, in a way, trying to bury your head in the sand and ignore just exactly what he is.
by Fourstrike89 on Dec 11, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
kray ... the other day you said yeah, bench Cassel ... now you're saying no, don't start Croyle
you’re waffling so much I’m going to start calling you Aunt Jemima
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Dec 9, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's nicely said, +1
I’ve been getting a sense lately of a tendency toward instant gratification – I see something I want and I buy it.
In that sense it’s as if people are expecting Cassel to perform exactly like a new television or something, and discounting the team aspect – the Dolphins and Falcons rather ruined things for other rebuilding teams with their performance a season ago, which was an exception; as we’ve seen this season, those teams are closer to being still in a rebuilding mode than being elite teams.
Stay the course with Cassel – let him and the players continue to grow as a team. Recognize that the Chiefs simply don’t have the talent or comfort yet to compete with a good team that’s clicking (the Chargers or Broncos). Look for progress- for instance, the offensive line seems to be playing better, and the run game is improving.
Some continuity
We’ve had the revolving door of receivers, major OLine woes, a complete change in the entire scheme of the offense and terminology, shuffling of offensive coaches… Oh, and receivers have to get open and make the catches when they get their hands on it.
For the one position where continuity is most important — well, maybe second to the OLine — there has been absolutely none. All of these things play a big part in the success of the QB, and the stage has been improperly set for him to even be successful this season.
I think once we get a few more pieces in place and Cassel is afforded the opportunity to get in synch with his receivers, can count on his OLine to keep him upright (which really has open happened recently.. maybe he starts to trust them after the Bronco game?), and can get him some consistency in the receiving corps, he can be succcessful as a starter for this team.
We saw what he could do when he had all of those things in NE.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
It's official
Were gonna trade him to the Bills or Panthers for a first rounder after the seasons done! Scott Pioli forgets what he ever saw in him, and Todd Haley only said Cassel gives the Chiefs the best chance to win cause he doesn’t want to look stupid.
Not.
Scott Pioli and Todd Haley have seen him play alot more than any of us. I think we should leave the decisions up to them and have faith in our new regime…
by chiefs#7 on Dec 9, 2009 9:06 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Thought, I don't agree with the opinion here...
It is good to have a well written post on the subject…
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Can't agree here...
The pass thrown last game to a WIDE OPEN Bobby Wade was slightly off the mark….
He put it on the mark to be a sure TD…I remember it in person…Wade slowed up right after he threw it, if he had maintained speed he would have caught it easy. OR as it happened, he could have dove or used two hands and still caught it.
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by woodman212 on Dec 9, 2009 10:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
A dive still could've gotten up, too.
I watched it live at the stadium and remember there being nobody near him. Even covered, you’ve GOT to make that catch. Frustrating, to say the least.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
I felt the same way...
I remember when they said on the PA “Coverage by Champ Bailey….” we were all like “COVERAGE!??!?!?” lol
That one was Wade, no debate…
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I was their too
He did make a good throw,Wade just didn’t make the catch. Gut wrenching to say the least, and going for it in the second half on our 28 yard line, was a terrible call at that time in the game.
Someone remind me of Croyle's starter record please.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 9, 2009 11:34 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I've found that the argument doesn't necessarily work around here.
I’ve made it quite a few times. It tends to get ignored.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 9, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Avenger
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 9, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Two words - NO!
he makes our recievers look bad (Except Mark Bradely and Sean Ryan
If I had a wall of shame – you’d be on it for that comment
Now give Cassel a break and go troll some other site
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
by cpa913 on Dec 9, 2009 11:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Be nice....
I didn’t think he was trolling…he expressed his opinion well…
And “NO” is one word, lol…
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Forgot the sarcasm font - oops
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
Let's end this debate and just start Matt Gutierrez
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
Just something for all of you to consider, from the NE sports media
“It’s a sobering thought, indeed, to think that the Brady-led Pats of December, 2009, are no better off than the Cassel-led team of December, 2008. At least the Pats of last year got better as the season progressed. This group is getting worse.” -Michael Felger
OMG!!!!
Please Michael Felger, I’d give the #7 back to the Pats in a heartbeat and take the awful Tom Brady off their hands.
You know what Michael, for good measure, we’d throw in our own #12 with Cassel since Brady might want to wear #12 in red and gold.
:)
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Ask yourself this question:
Could Cassel lead the Chiefs to score 87 points in two weeks? Because we’d need 88 to score more points than our opponents have against our sorry defense.
SO WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT CASSEL?!?!
Our defense gave up 87 points in two weeks and the only thing people want to talk about is Matt Cassel. Classic.
because we'll probably need to score more than 13 points
if the D ever stops someone.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
NJ, the Chiefs scored more than 13 points in 9 out of their 13 games this season.
Our defense gave up 87 points in two weeks and the only thing people want to talk about is Matt Cassel. Classic.
Matt Cassel = Turnovers
Turnovers are critical to stopping drives and ending offensive momentum. Not that a Cassel led offense had much of that. Defense rest when your offense sustain drives, even if they don’t score or just kick FGs. Matt’s consistency in 3rd and long is not indirectly contributing to the defensive collapse late in games but it is 100% a contributing factor in making your defense tired.
Tamba Hali: hey Vrabel, you see that strip> Nice ain’t it? Can get some gatorade?
Gilberry: Tamba, forget the gatorade, put your chin strap back on, we’re punting.
Hali: You gotta be kidding?!?!? Why does it keep happening?
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Ok, more than 20.
That’s 9 of 13 games.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 10, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Ask yourself this?
Could Cassel lead the offense to score 87 points throwing passes to a blindman, a man with no arms and a 5 year old? Cause that is pretty much what he is dealing with right now.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 10, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
NO
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Slight exaggeration??? ya think??
How many of those points came off of offensive turnovers? Even more so, how many came off of Cassel fumbles? What about Matt Cassel INTs??? The defense has given up a lot of points but, that is because Matt Cassels offense put them in a crunch by making terrible mistakes.
Without his terrible play, the Chiefs would have been in both of those games. Take away the boneheaded mistakes that Haley made and it looks even better. Jamal’s fumbles may have even been able to have been overcome if it weren’t for all the mistakes by Cassel and Haley. Face it, the guy is playing really really bad. no matter what you say. I am not saying he will always be bad but, right now, he looks like he’s scared. Some time on the bench would do him some good.
You are not exaggerating Chiefsfan1970
I might want to add that not only did Cassel’s turnovers contributed to the points against us but his lack of getting first downs and moving the chains puts our Defense in harms way more than not. If someone started keeping track of teams leading in 3rd and long, I bet you that KC is somewhere near the top if not the top.
How many times can you send the defense back out there when they’d just finish holding up the opponent’s attack 4 downs ago? KC’s defense wearing down has everything to do with Cassel’s led offense going 3 and out consecutively. As a matter of fact, that’s the only thing #7 have done consistently, 3rd and long! Why does Colquit look so good> Is he leading the league in punts? Hmmmmm… how is’t that a punter can lead the league in punting??? Would a defense create such opportunity? NOT!
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
40 points off our offense's turnovers.
48 points given up by the defense outside of that.
And I don’t get how you can pick on Cassel for his turnovers and gloss over Jamaal’s fumbles. As a matter of fact, you’ve even blamed Cassel for something there:
Jamal’s fumbles may have even been able to have been overcome if it weren’t for all the mistakes by Cassel and Haley.
The whole team is bad from top to bottom. Singling one guy out and claiming a replacement could do better is naive.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 10, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
The points reference was for the last two games.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 10, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
It does appear that Charles and our other RBs
Have to take the ball from Cassel because he does not shove it in there like he should atleast two fumbles this year because Cassel did not get the RB the ball properly. Yes another thing Cassel does not do well HAND THE BALL OFF effeciantly. That probably comes from not playing enough years of football you know starting in college. Oh he had QBs who were better than him playing.
Where does all this extreme Cassel hatred come from?
Playing for USC? The Patriots?
Why must all the focus be put on Matt Cassel when the ENTIRE rest of the team is lacking? Some act like we’d magically have 4-5 more wins with Matt Cassel NOT at the helm. That’s not the case. We need help everywhere, and replacing one person, no matter who it may be, won’t fix anything.
I’d venture to say that of all the spots on this team that are lacking, QB isn’t even in the top half, yet we’re placing 90% of the blame on him.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
As the story goes, Cassel was recruited to USC by the coach before Pete Carroll
After Carroll came in, he recruited Matt Leinart, and he preferred him to Cassel. Surely you’re familiar with the concept of a coach preferring his guy over his predecessor’s. Once Palmer graduated, there was the competition between Cassel and Leinart, and it was close, and Carroll went with his guy.
Cassel decided to tough it out as Leinart’s backup, and be a good team player- for God’s sake, he volunteered to play tight end and H-back for the Trojans. Kinda similar to Tom Brady being a good soldier as the Michigan Wolverines’ coaching staff inserted Drew Henson into games (and during that period Brady was clearly the better quarterback, though Henson was the better athlete).
Now, I’m not saying Brodie Croyle hasn’t been a good team player, and I’m not saying that Brodie Croyle can’t be a good player- just bear in mind when saying “he had QBs who were better than him playing” that at some football-factory colleges the backup is at nearly the same level as the starter.
Maybe Croyle is a better player – when he gets his chances to play, he needs to put points on the board and he needs to close out games if given the opportunity to start – he hasn’t demonstrated that ability in his career. Give me the guy who keyed a New England offense and overcame a weak defense to go 10-5.
LOL
Ok. You gave me a great idea mentioning Cassel’s willingness to play H-back and TE. He should do that with the Chiefs now and we’ll have both QB on the field. Especially seeing our lousy play from our revolving TE door and the ever changing H-back position.
Cassel decided to tough it out as Leinart’s backup, and be a good team player- for God’s sake, he volunteered to play tight end and H-back for the Trojans.
SEE!!!! Great idea. Now everyone will be happy since Croyle and Cassel will both start!
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Caption This
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:50 AM CST reply actions
It's OK mom
No matter what, they can’t bench me. They’ve paid me too much, to let me ride the bench is really not an option.
I gotta at least act like I’m a leader. The fans here really digs me so I’m gonna be fine.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 10:54 AM CST reply actions
That what Matt Leinart said...?
Before this coach benched him? Their blockbuster guy…
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Cassel is not Kurt Warner
Kurt Warner = HOF, of course Leinart rides the bench.
Brodie Croyle and Matt Cassel = same level of experience.
Stop using Leinart’s situation as if it applies. if we had Brett Favre or Peyton Manning in this context, then your comparison is a valid one.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Ahhh...
Warner wasn’t what anyone would ever have considered HOF material prior to that…
EVERYONE thought Warner was washed up, that would be why they drafted Leinart to begin with.
Brodie Croyle and Matt Cassel are nowhere near the same level of NFL experience…Brodie = 0-9 or whatever….Cassel = 13-13….
The analogy is applicable because you raised the issue of whether the money has an impact on why he is starting. It is especially applicable because you can not only notice the occurence of Warner starting over the higher paid Leinart, but this is the SAME GUY who did it.
So, i will say to you: Stop citing the money, as if it applies.
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
I think it was Joel who mentioned yesterday that Haley always talks about how much he draws on past experiences and the people he has worked for have proven that money is not a consideration in their dealings.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
They had a Super Bowl MVP waiting in the wings.
That is a HUMONGOUS difference. Kurt Warner should NEVER be on the bench. he is a proven winner. Do you really think Leinert would have gotten that team to the Super Bowl?
nope, he wouldn't have
… and Cassel was behind Leinert at U niversity of S poiled C hildren
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Kurt Warner should NEVER be on the bench. he is a proven winner.
Kurt Warner was cut by more than one team. Kurt Warner stocked groceries after he had been drafted. It took Warner 5 years and players like Tory Holt, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Orlando Pace (that is four amazing players if you’re counting) to turn in to the “proven winner” that he is now. The cupboard isn’t exactly bare in Arizona either.
How is it fair to judge Cassel when he has absolutely no (0) serious weapons? Are you still ignoring the dropped passes stat?
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Kurt is a PROVEN winner
I believed that Chiefsfans1970 was referring Warner as “proven” after his SB MVP and leading the league in TDs with the Rams. Thus, with that kind of resume, it was right and also validated when Whisenhunt went with experience and legitimacy over high priced rookie Leinart.
Adding to it. Even when the G-men brought Warner in after drafting Eli Manning, Warner despite a inconsistent line at that time, Warner threw accurate balls. Cassel is more than just not having weapons, his arm and accuracy is of question.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Kurt Warner also had the benefit in St. Louis of one of the greatest offensive LTs of the generation
And a trio of explosive wide-receivers (and Torry Holt was one of the best route-runners in the game) and one of the NFL’s best running backs over the last 20 years. In fact, Marc Bulger, in having similar numbers with those weapons (and he did, over a stretch of several games, produce numbers that were eerily similar to Kurt Warner’s best production over the same number of games). If anything, one can argue that environment was a great system for quarterbacks. Also, Warner couldn’t beat a mediocre Pats team that just happened to be scrappy and peaking at the time.
Also, Jake Delhomme is a proven winner – led a furious comeback in a Super Bowl, had the Panthers in the playoffs a few times, had a good record last season. Players can’t play at a high level forever. Look at Delhomme now – he’s older, has only one receiver, and was being asked to throw the ball all over the field (that’s bad playcalling) – he’s a mockery of his former self. And he has two great running backs!
Compare to the Chiefs this season – one legitimate receiving threat, questionable play calls, a bad offensive line. At least Cassel’s not throwing interceptions that are being returned for touchdowns like Delhomme has – and, on a much worse team, Cassel has half the interceptions.
Good analogy with Delhomme
I live in NC and I’ve seen the Panther’s situation turn into an absolute nightmare. They are being badly mismanaged, I think our GM is gonna have us headed in a much different direction. I would love to trade the Panthers for Jonathan Stewart though. He’d be a great compliment to JC……
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 11, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry 58
Didn’t mean to step on your toes there
It's all good.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Hey guys.
This is a great debate. i think we should rec this post up and keep the debate alive.
I did.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not entirely convinced
the decision to keep Cassel in is both Pioli’s and Haley’s. I really think one of them (probably Haley) wants to give Croyle a series or two or maybe even a start. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing Croyle in the first half for a series or two just to see what the offense looks like. They said the player that gives them the best chance to win will play. They’ve shuffled every position to date, but QB. Croyle used to be fragile, but we don’t know if he still is unless we let him take a beating here and there and see how he handles it.
I’ve been all about trying to establish some consistency, but if Haley and Co. want to shake things up then don’t half-ass it. This will not hurt seeing as how we normally go 3 and out most of the first half anyway. The least we can do is try something a little different for a series or two. Let’s see what we have for real on this offense at all positions, then we can get our priorities lined up BEFORE this offseason…..
Comparing #12 and #7
So many would compare them saying Brodie’s college’s history of injuries followed him into the pros thus he is not pro material.
Yet when comparing Cassel’s college history of never being a starter doesn’t seem to hold much ground. Instead people should state that if Cassel could not beat out Leinart at the pro level, and if Leinart is still learning from the bench, how can Cassel be put into a leadership role for such a young team? Seems like the belief here is that since Brodie can’t be trusted to stay healthy in colege, thus he will not be in the pros. So the same can be said that if Cassel can’t beat out the other QBs in college, he should not be given a starting nod in the pros.
IMO Brodie showed much more in his eagerness to play and love of the game. Despite all the injuries, Croyle worked his way back. That to me is toughness. This guy had to face adversity numerous time, in college and in the pros that he can’t stay healthy, yet he never quit and kept on coming back. Because if you were him (injury after injury), most would call it a career and moved on. He came back in Alabama, first 2 years in KC, despite injury woes, he came back again.
Except this time, he may have met his match in a hard nose head coach who’d make him see what it takes to stay healthy or at least work at being less injury prone. Toughness and lifting more weights to bulk up WHICH HE DID. 2009 Brodie vs 2007 Brodie is a different QB – his talents and skills are there. it’s evident. No one here doubt his talent and skill level but every questioned his ability to stay on the field. So I say we have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he indeed have mature and acknowledge that to stay healthy, it requires extra time and more work in the offseason to bulk up. He is ready now. He may not have been ready during Herm’s time.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 1:22 PM CST reply actions
i agree
The thing that i respect about brodie the most is his toughness. To my understanding he completely blew his knee out against the titans(and by looking at how to big linemen hit him at the same time, one at his upper body and one at his knees, that would have injured anyone). He had his surgery around december and was ready for training camp in july i think. That is 7 months..thats an injury that should take 9-12 months at the very least..you can’t say with cassel sucking and all and with the way his has played in his limited time this year in the pre and regular season that the man hasn’t earned another shot. The thing i also like about him is he appears to be a good ole country boy (seems to always have a dip in when you see a camera shot of him on the sidelines)where cassel seems to be that rich kid i always hated growing up who never got in trouble because of who his parents were.
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Dec 10, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
where cassel seems to be that rich kid i always hated growing up who never got in trouble because of who his parents were.
Have you ever seen Cassel at a press conference or are you going off of your imagination?
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Yep i have(thanks to kcchiefs.com streaming videos)
Just seems to me his ties to pioli make him the “priviledged kid” that can do no wrong…just my opinion, doesn’t mean i am right.
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Dec 10, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Thats the knock on Brodie
He may infact be the kind of country mold who’s a bit more reserved and not charismatic with words. Whereas Cassel is very good and always seem to say the right things in front of the camera and with all media query.
Look back at every time Brodie is in front of the camera, he’d respond with one sentence or few words when asked.
Unlike Cassel, I don’t think Brodie is the type that would talk a good game. Cassel’s got everyone bought in because he says the right things and exudes leadership at the podium. I repeat…leadership when he is in front of the camera.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
The Pats players all said that Cassel had command of the huddle and exuded progressively more
confidence as the season went on. They didn’t say he was as good as Tom Brady, of course, but they did respect him and play hard for him, and he was a fine leader on the field.
Plus, he’s had time to learn what to say and do in front of the cameras and in private life. I’m sure Matt Leinart wishes he’d learned as well and sooner.
if I was QB in NE then I'd be full of confidence, too
but KC is not NE … and a player’s confidence level can fall … I don’t blame everything in the world on Cassel, and the blatant dropped passes aren’t his fault …
just that hey, sometimes a new look, a new guy, gives a spark … Cassel looks lost all too often, we need a spark, Croyle has a far better arm, so WHY NOT?
the WORST thing is what … Croyle sucks and we lose … gee, lose a game or two? yeah, that’s be TERRIBLE
but what if … just IF … Croyle looks GOOD and we WIN some games … hmmmmmm? are the Cassel Apologists (Casselberry Splash Flavored Kool Aid Drinkers) afraid of that happening?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
No, I think we're afraid that Croyle will look good and then blow out his knee or shoulder or something
And then we’ll have had some tantalizing vision of the future only to have it crushed. Again.
Trust me, I’m from Michigan – I’ve watched enough Lions games to know the feeling. “Look – Harrington and Charles Rogers are looking like studs! Ah, damnit – Rogers broke his collarbone again!”
Which has happened often in the past with Croyle
He has a great arm, and his football IQ is definetly up there. But how many games of his career has he spent on the IR/DL? Hard to complete passes from the rehab area, no matter how strong your arm is.
by Fourstrike89 on Dec 11, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Is there really a difference between
never leaving the bench and being on the IR? Either way you’re not playing.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 11, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
So many would compare them saying Brodie’s college’s history of injuries followed him into the pros thus he is not pro material.
Fine. Ignore his college career. He’s built the reputation based on his pro career alone. Cassel has shown just as much “love of the game.” He was patient sitting behind two great QB’s in college. Again, he was patient behind Brady in New England. We’ve given Croyle the benefit of the doubt three times and it hasn’t worked. Trust me, I was the all for giving Croyle multiple chances, but the guy couldn’t stay healthy. If you’re all for giving Croyle his fourth chance, why not give Cassel a SINGLE chance? That single chance includes a season with players that can catch the damn ball.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Correct me please
Cassel sat behind two QBs is not because he was patient. he could not even smell the chance. It was not even a question if he was considered for competing. How is that patience when you clearly know you’re not better or close to being at your counter part’s talent and skill level?
It’s not patience when you play behind HOF QB Brady
It’s not patience when you play behind Heisman QB’s Palmer and Leinart
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Please do a bit of research...a quick google search will get you far.
http://patsblog.projo.com/2008/12/matt-leinart-ta.html
He almost was the guy at USC —> Carroll preferred his own guy over his predecessor’s guy, and concept with which you’re surely familiar with.
Ascendance of Matt Leinart
In the spring of 2003, the Trojan coaches were happy with their offense but not necessarily in their choices of quarterbacks to run it.
The decision came down to two Matts — Leinart, a redshirt sophomore, and Cassel, a redshirt junior who backed up Palmer in 2002.
Carroll chose Leinart primarily because he had to choose one or the other.
“There was a lot of uncertainty about that,” Sarkisian recalls. “Leinart hadn’t exactly set the world on fire in practice.”
There was a feeling early that fall that Leinart was merely a caretaker until the widely hailed Booty, a true freshman who had bypassed his senior season in high school to enroll at USC in 2003, learned the offense.
and this http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jo-cassel091208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Ok so he's a Great guy....he's also a bad QB right now.
There is absolutely no reason to stand for Cassel’s play to date. He hasn’t even played well for one whole quarter.
There is no doubt that he gives a good interview….maybe he should run for govenor but that does not mean he’s plays good football. I like the guy too and still believe he can play in this league but so far Cassel has played like he excepts the loss when the game starts. I think if we don’t replace him now he may never be any good for us because he will have lost all of the moxy he came with (ala David Carr).
If Bodie plays and gets it done then Cassel might benefit by learning how to do it right. if Brdoie fails then Cassel can feel confident that it more of a team problem than it is him.
If you ask me today I’d be glad to see him traded to Denver for draft choice. I’ve seen enough poor play to convince me that
You haven’t seen one good quarter from him? How many games have you watched?
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
every one this year.
Cassel has NOT put in even one strong quarter from start to finish. A good QB would have atleast one perfect quarter and great ones such as Brees and Favre put in PERFECT GAMES. Suporting cast bla bla blah. If he was playing good ball the skill players would be getting the heat from the fans but he does not play well enough for the rest to matter. Although we get smashed when players fail to capitalize on the few chances MATT CASSEL gives them. He is terrible right now.
If he was playing good ball the skill players would be getting the heat from the fans but he does not play well enough for the rest to matter.
Skill players ARE getting heat from fans that aren’t blindly bashing Cassel. I’m still waiting for an answer to this post. You guys seemed to ignore it.
It’s okay with me if you want to bash Cassel. Just don’t ignore the fact that he would have over thirty more completions if the receivers would catch. Surely some of those were game changing, like Wade’s last week.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
I feel ya skip.
I mentioned the David carr thing somewhere recently. (I don’t remember where) This is exactly the same situation. Carr came into the league looking like he was going to be the next HOF QB and then, He got pummelled week after week and turned into, well, a really good backup.
This is how I see Matt Cassel. He looked much better earlier in the season but, the beating has taken it’s toll on him and it is clear to see. He is not the same guy we had the first few weeks of the season. I think some time on the bench is exactly what he needs regardless of how people feel about Croyle.
I want #7 to be the man no matter how much I preach benching him. I really do. But, he has played horribly and I have never seen Brodie play a game like I have seen from #7 the last 2 weeks. To be honest, I would like to see Brodie come in on a temporary basis and play well so we can keep him after the season but even more so I want Matt C to get his head out of his ass so he can be effective in the future for this team.
A little time on the bench could be very therapeutic for Matt C. I think it is exactly what he needs at this point.
I agree with that
I’ve used the David Carr thing myself on a number of occasions and I see it getting progressively worse. I’m not quite as pesimistic about Cassel as a number of others here (yet) but it is a growing concern. He’s turning into a head-case with happy feet. I’m willing to see how things shake out into next year. I am thinking that we better have a #2 (I don’t really care who it is as long as they have what it takes) that’s capable of pushing for the #1 job along with a massively reinforced O-line going into next year.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
If Brodie started all season, he woulda been on IR by week 3...
with the beating Cassel takes. F Brodie. Once Brodie can win a game in the near future, I want him as a backup.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
MAtt cassel
may never be an elite nfl QB But he will be more then adaquate. give him a line,some weapons and he will be a top 10 qb
Are you serious???
Matt can be more than adequate when we surround him with all that talent? WOW!
You mean around 2012 and 3 more drafts plus some expensive FAs will actually make #7 be “more than adequate”?
If you had surrounded Damon Huard with that same level of weapons and o-line, perhaps Damon would have done the same – MORE THAN ADEQUATE.
The only difference is….Huard made about $3 mil and #7 is getting paid to be more than just being a Damon Huard type QB. And add to it #7 makes $10 mil/year plus Damon never even came close to smelling the kind of bonus moola Pioli gave Matt.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
Can Brodie do this?
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80cb7e80/WK-12-Matt-Cassel-highlights
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
just goes to show
when our receivers learn how to catch the ball, cassel will look a lot better
Defending the Cassel since 2009
That statistic from the front page pretty much should have ended this discussion
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
LOL
Dude. My high school Qb could have done that. It’s a 4 yard pass side arm with a receiver standing still. Now show me a catch where #7 placed the ball to a WR in stride.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
I am convinced now
After 12 games and how many passing attempts, #7 delivers a perfect pass to a receiver in stride. He is totally the QB that’ll take this squad to the promise land.
ROFL
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
The Promised Land ... and I can't WAIT to get there!
Disneyland!!!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Damn that Cassel highlight reel
really drove the point home…….give him the weapons and a lil time in the pocket and he can do the job……Wow I had never seen his work last year but it’s a night and day difference!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 11, 2009 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
You know what that video reminded me of?
Mark Bradley is not such a bad #2 or #3 receiver all along. He was dependable when Thigpen played QB too but all of a sudden he is not even in the mix in some games when #7 took over….
hmmmm…. Can an inept QB make a decent WR looked out of place?
Well.. when you have a QB with less than accurate arm and occasionally throwing behind and sometimes aiming for your helmet – its hard to be receiver.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
I may also want to add that
When Mark Bradley was in Chicago, he didn’t look as good too when some guy named Rex was the starting QB thus, he was eventually let go.
just saying….
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Notice
notice how long brodie took to make his reads, step up into the pocket, and deliver a Dart only cassel could dream of throwing.. Brodie is Clearly a better QB.. Frail or bad end of having a Dismal offensive line. Brodies the guy, not cassel
Yea um refer to the many deep balls for Bowe/Chambers over the year.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Hey man
Brodie was never good a making sound decisions or protecting the ball. I think you guys should check your memory. The guy was and still is a putrid QB. That’s not to say Cassel is any good either. Right now, I don’t think the Chiefs have any good options at QB period.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
You are going to mention ball protection and at the same time stick up for Cassel?
Where have you been for the last 2 weeks?
NJ...
Cassel hasn’t looked that good in a single play this season. That’s a fact. That play was straight out of the textbooks.
When I watch that play, the thing I notice the most is the way Brodie KNEW EXACTLY where he was going with that pass after looking at the defense during the pre snap. Cassel has not shown that kind of football IQ all year.
Like him or hate him Brodie is a good football player and I for one would like to see how far he has come and how he looks in Haley’s offense for a prolonged period behind the line that has shown noticeable improvement since week one. I truly think the reason you guys don’t want him to play is because it will make you look bad for bashing him for the last year and a half. There is no way you can tell me that Cassel has better QB abilities than #12. No freaking way!
Well if he has better qualities, why isn't he starting? Is it Haley's fault now?
Why hasnt he proved to the whole Chiefs organization that he can be a starter? Let me guess…because hes not being given a chance?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
Brodie beat out Thiggy in training camp
He’s got some skills, but there’s no comparison to Cassel. Cassel just has had a couple of off weeks. When you’re receivers drop so many on target balls, it’s going to happen.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
I dont understand how everything is Cassel's fault all of a sudden.
I mean, isnt he in his 2nd year as a starter? Isn’t he on a horrible Chiefs team, not some Randy Mass and Welker team? Isn’t this his first year here?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
LOL i mean "Moss"
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Damn, you recognized it too quickly. =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
LOL yea. I had to catch that fast.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Since they have "Randy Mass", you think they'd give us Randy Moss? =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Brodie threw that off his back foot
It was fortunately not intercepted. Cassel does make better throws than that. Look at the Pittsburgh highlights.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
How about this single play?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112205/2009/REG11/steelers@chiefs#tab:watch
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
Cassel aside
When speaking of wins, I’m no longer pumped beating the Steelers. I dont care how and who QB the team to win that game now. Last week, Pit lost to crappy Oak. And tonight they lost to friggin Cleveland.
I care more about WINS against the AFC West. You can’t even compete in the last two division game let alone blow out????
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Defenses do have a way of changing after the snap of the ball, even bad ones.
A good chunk of defensive strategy for a lot of teams is getting the quarterback to read Cover Two or Man-off or single-high safety or whatever you want, really, and then changing it after the snap.
I can tell you Cassel has better overall abilities than Croyle because he’s shown that he can play at a high level in this league – and since it’s a team sport, I look for him doing his part. That includes not throwing interceptions in bunches (and not all interceptions are the quarterback’s fault) and not forcing the pass when it’s not there and you don’t have to. It includes delivering catchable passes, and it involves not getting your receivers killed. In every game I’ve seen of Cassel (and that’s several from New England and a couple of KC’s) he’s shown that he’s capable of doing that. Plus, he wins occasionally, too. Croyle doesn’t.
He made that throw with a vicious pass rush in his face
and still threw a beautiful pass (even off of his back foot) That pass was nowhere close to being picked off. Now your’e just hatin! Doesn’t even factor in the fact that that pass was to Mark bradley who seems to be one of the main culprits for dropping MCs passes. Coincidence? Maybe. But, it’s still worth mentioning. If a WR catches balls for one QB but not for the other, that’s usually because one QB has better ball placement than the other.
That was a courageous pass and Brodie showed absolutely no fear, even after taking a beating for the entire game. Cassel hasn’t shown that kind of poise in any game I have seen this year.
it’s funny how you showed the NE highlight reel as opposed to comparing apples to apples. He played well last year and I don’t think any of us are disputing that. Does our Chiefs no good at all cause he doesn’t look like the same guy.
That is a load of crock.
You tellin me Randy Moss would have dropped passes by Peyton Manning because hes not Tom Brady?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
I picked the game Cassel through for 415
Because it shows what he is capable of. I agree that Brodie has improved and is a capable backup, but, look at Cassels footwork in the “single play” above, that’s textbook.
This is not a Gannon vs. Grbac conversation. This is a TrINT vs. Huard conversation. Huard was a fine backup, but he was not Trent Green. Personally, I liked the Cassel pump fake to Chambers 61 yard TD, as my favorite play of the year.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
I also liked that pass...
Along with Pope TD…oh and the 40 somethin yard pass to Bowe…and the many deep balls to Chambers…oh and the leadership…
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
If the pass hits the receiver in the hands, in stride (and some of Cassel's do just that)it's hardly a matter of ball placement
Some receivers are just awful at it – Braylon Edwards is one of them. Mark Bradley is another. In fact, throwing them a perfect pass seems counterproductive – they’ll drop it, but then make the circus catch on the ball that was a hope and prayer.
CPA...
Which single play are you talking about? The one where #7 fumbled and put the opponent into FG position? Or the one where Chris Chambers made an incredible run after the catch and padded MCs stats to win the game?
J/K Actually the long pass to Chambers was a very nice play.
The play where he looked off the Pitt Defense
And then hit a wide open Pope in the numbers for a TD http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112205/2009/REG11/steelers@chiefs#tab:watch
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
I thought you were going to mention the slip out of his hands
into the San Diego dudes arms for a TD – that was embarrassing! (SP?)
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
I think the plusses and minuses are there for both.
Haley has chosen Cassel as his starter. I’d like to think that if Croyle were outperforming him in practice, Haley would have the stones to start him. Haley stands to gain nothing by NOT putting the best players on the field.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 10, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, you mean the play where Cassel delivered a nice pass to Chambers as a Steelers linebacker shot up a gap untouched
and happened to trip himself over the right guard’s foot?
That was a nice play all around – too bad nearly everyone, from three Pittsburgh defensive players ( I want to say Clark, Harrison, and Taylor) and Leonard Pope all gave up on it.
That too was a great play W/O a doubt.
Too bad that hasn’t carried over into the last couple of games. We probably wouldn’t be having this discussion which would be a shame cause this is one of my favorite debates I have ever had on AP!
Thanks guys!
It's definitely hard to defend Cassel based on the last two weeks
But he really won me over with the gutsy performances against Dallas and Pittsburgh. I want so bad for him to play to his potential!
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
Yea well your opinion is very much accepted.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 10, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
I will say this in Cassel's defense (but this is all you get!)
SD and Denver attacked our offense in different ways than any team has all year. They got away from pressuring Cassel so much and played the coverage game instead. It really did seem to throw him off. with that being said, A really good QB should be able to find an open guy when he has sufficient time in the pocket to look at the field.
I think Cassel jersey number should be changed to "3 & out"
Look psuedo-chiefs-MC-lovers, I want my team to win. Cassel is not the answer. Matty supporters have no legs to stand on. He’s so bad now that he’s bringing down the rest of the team and we are getting killed. We just played 3 division opponents in the last 5 weeks and got crushed….. I’m sorry, all of the real chiefs fans know that is totally unsatisfactory. In our history we have always stood up to our division. When is he going to get mad and demand that his oline blocks, or yell at his recievers to catch the damn ball….he can’t because he knows he’s a big part of the problem.
I could see sticking with him if he had shown ANYTHING that resembled good. There is nothing. What are you Cassel lover seeing? How blind do you have to be to not see that Brodie does have the tools to play the game.
Cassel affect on the team is already eveident; they don’t play with any anticipation that he can get it done. Good ol’ 3 & out" is playing like a broken record….again and again, and again. Stop it already. It’s time for a change or this team will be ruined beyond what it is if that’s possible.
What free agent in his right mind would take our money over anybody elses to play on this team. It’s cold as hell in winter and we loose……a lot. We may not get any “bonus babies” to play with next year if we keep this up.
Even B. Gretz has gone too far in his call for patience and understanding for the new QB and all of his challenges. I’ve agreed and supported pretty much all of his takes but his take on the Cassel just put me over the edge…..that was one of the worst misrespresentations of realtiy i have ever seen on paper. If he is the anti-Jason W. and Jason W. is the anti-Bob G……the real truth is somewhere in between.
While it is true there has been plenty of change and that makes it tough on everybody you have to look for the silver lining when you are developing a young QB….Where is his silver lining.
Here’s one more for ya.. I’d like to know how many block passes he’s had…especially on third down…..now that’s a catagory that he can lead the league in runaway fashion.
Dropped passes….it’s a good thing we don’t TO here he’d probably beat Cassel up for throwing all of those ragedy passes.
Go sit down Mr. “3 & out”. The rest of ya’ll strap ’em on and go kick some footballs
Uhhh...
He’s so bad now that he’s bringing down the rest of the team and we are getting killed.
Yes, because one guy on our offense is causing our defense and special teams to give up yardage and points.
22 guys on the field, skip. Singling one out as the only one stopping us from winning is shortsighted. And I’d say the exact same thing if Brodie were at the helm in a similar situation. I’m far from a Cassel apologist. I just can’t get behind him being the ONLY one we’re blaming here.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Should read: "one guy on our offense is THE ONLY reason our...blahblahblah"
Sorry ’bout that. I should proofread my stuff better. =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
I guess thats they way
you see it huh…Kalo?
When the team loose, blame the opposing being far more superior. When the QB gets sack, blame the o-line. When the offense sucks and goes consecutive 3 & outs, blame the play-calling? When a ball is drop, blame the receivers? When the ball gets batted down or hits the WR helmet, blame …. ???
But when the team wins? glory to the great QB play and QB exudes leadership and is the future?
What a bunch of crack smoking logic is that? QB takes the blame ..yes it’s not 22 guys nor its the 11 on offense or 11 on SP. it’s the face of the team – the QB.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
Hardly my point, 58.
I never said anything about giving the QB a free pass, so I’m not sure why you based your entire post on that.
Re-read it. I said that there’s plenty of holes all over this team and singling out one player, regardless who it is, is shortsighted.
22 guys win and lose the game. That’s my point all along, but you obviously haven’t read my posts that way.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
Kalo - you're right, there ARE holes all over and Cassel is NOT the only reason we lose
in fact, SOME of the stuff isn’t even CLOSE to Cassel’s fault, we all get that … even guys like 58 and 1970 and myself who really want to see Croyle out there for a few weeks
it’s NOT “all on Cassel” by any means, but yanno … sometimes a change is good, sometimes it’’s the best thing: shake it up a little, push guys outside of their “comfort zone” … starting Croyle, who DOES HAVE a better arm, can’t possibly HURT … and it MIGHT just HELP … Cassel has looked lost lately, the whole “happy feet” and what have you … nope, not ALL his fault, but SOME of it, ya think maybe? huh?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Oh sure.
He’s not a world beater by any means, and (like I said earlier) I’m not a Cassel apologist. Brodie has a tarnished reputation around here based on past injury histories, but if he were to step up and play well enough to be the starter, I know we’d be behind him…or at least most of us will.
Haley believes Cassel is better than Croyle. That’s the one truth about this whole situation. Whether or not that changes before the year’s end is yet to be seen. As I said earlier, I’d like to think that our coach puts the money/investment in Cassel aside and is playing the guy he thinks gives us the best chance to win. I’d hope that if he thought Brodie could light a spark for this team, he’d play him more. Haley’s fairly willing to pull guys from the game for their mistakes, and since Cassel hasn’t played well the past two weeks, one would think that Brodie could step up in practice to try to take it. He hasn’t. Wish we could see/hear more coming from practice to verify, but Haley’s sticking with who he thinks is better in this situation.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go search for our defense. =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 11, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
just wonder sometimes, considering QB is a "special" position, if maybe Croyle hasn't already "stepped up" in practice but ...
Cassel could be that “sacred cow” … could be that in Pioli’s or Haley’s mind you don’t screw with an investment like Cassel’s Contract … just seems to me that Croyle really MIGHT give us that “best chance to win” and that Cassel, right now, doesn’t
in a year of benchings and personnel turnover and talent evaluation, why not ho Croyle a few games? he’s obviously one of the “Right 53” or he’d be long gone, he’s the “type” of QB Haley wants (pocket passer), strong arm, accurate, good presence in pocket, etc … those things in and of themselves make me think he SHOULD get a shot
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
You know upamtn
I know you want to see Brodie in there as much as a lot of us who have seen enough of #7 after 12 games. I am not sure if you have the similar concerns but I am guessing that some of the Cassel supporters and apologist are afraid of a true QB controversy.
Let me explain my take on this:- I bet Haley have discussed that move with Pioli sometime this season and in response Pioli asked the HC, what if… Brodie comes out and really plays better than #7? Pioli acknowledges that Croyle is the better talent out of college, and surely is performing that way in camp and in practice. What do we do if Brodie starts to win and it gets even scarier when he starts to win fans? Tell me Todd, do you have a plan on how to manage a QB controversy? asked Pioli.
I’m just saying that it may be the case. Pioli put the pressure on Todd about the QB controversy possibilities…and Todd sucked it up and goes along with the boss.
Bottom line to me is… its not a matter of whether Brodie is better than Matt at this point but the bigger concerns all these guys are afraid to find out that Brodie is indeed better and are afraid of the consequences. Can you imagine how the media would spin this if it got to that? Deja vu “Grbac vs Gannon”. Pioli can’t afford to risk his reputation and allow a field day for the media to run up stories of a QB controversy.
Only way we’ll ever see what Brodie is all about as a 3 year veteran is Cassel getting hurt. It’s sad, I know but we’re the fans, we don’t have a say.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think the "controversy" - if any - would come if Cassel continues to play at sub-par level
… and remains starter …
what previous talk Pioli and Haley had, we’ll never know … but I do believe at this point, given our record, etc … it makes sense to see what Croyle has, what he can do for the team
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I'm not saying that's not a possibility.
And, as I’ve repeatedly said in this thread, I’d like to think our coach is playing the guy he thinks gives us the best chance to win, not who makes the most money. That’s what he’s supposed to do, and he’s not done anything to make me think otherwise (Bowe, DJ).
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that something could have happened to prevent that decision. However, we’re not at practice to see who’s throwing better, and we’re not in the internal discussions. All of our discussions are based on what we do know, and that means Cassel’s the starter for now.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 11, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Kalo, good point and I understand where you're coming from
and we’d all like to think Haley plays the best guys week in and week out … but …
in terms of practice, remember that Croyle might get a FEW snaps with 1st team, but some or much of his practice time will be with 2nd … and no, we aren’t there so we don’t see or know for sure (as far as we know Croyle MIGHT be better in practice than Cassel)
again, I’m not saying Croyle is The Answer … just that he MIGHT be, he MIGHT give this team a spark, a lift
an analogy if you will: whiz kid rookie pitcher gets hurt, free agent pitcher comes in and takes over as starter but after awhile, and after many losses and a rising ERA, and the kid in the bullpen … at what point do you say “look, we have an ineffective starter, we’re not going anywhere as a team playoff-wise, let’s run the kid out there for a coupla starts, see what he’s got”
then too, if Haley is NOT playing “the best player who gives us the best chance to win” he’s not a coach that I’d want … would you?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
It would make me question his ability to coach, yes.
But we haven’t seen that…and that’s what I’m basing it off of.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 12, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
then too, I've question a LOT of things about Haley (and Pioli) since they arrived
and I’ll continue to question … everything
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
So...
I’m sorry, all of the real chiefs fans know that is totally unsatisfactory. In our history we have always stood up to our division. When is he going to get mad and demand that his oline blocks, or yell at his recievers to catch the damn ball….he can’t because he knows he’s a big part of the problem.
first off, we aren’t “real” Chief fans because we support Matt Cassel? You had a good debate going until you threw that out there.
How do you know Cassel hasn’t demanded these things behind closed doors or in practice? You would rather he throw people under the bus? If he did that, I have a pretty good feeling those calling for his head would then use that against him, that he isn’t a “leader” and blames others for this season’s shortcomings…kinda like how people had a meltdown when Charles made similar comments.
...that's not what I said......this is what I said.
I’m just going by what I see on the sideline. Handling the business of team behind closed doors is a preffered way of doing things but at some point, after so much of the same thing over and over again somebody needs to step up say something. We are trying to win a violent contest….not tiddly winks. There is no such thing as nice football and if Haley see’s fit to do it then I think by default he opens the door for others to do it. You don’t think Payton, Rivers, or even Drew Brees (and he’s one of the awesome men on this planet) get’s in his boys face when it’s winning time?
When I say he is bring the team down what I mean to say that he does not give them any hope when things go bad and I don’t think it’s wrong to say that that’s part of his jog. If he isn’t doing that he’s is part of the problem and therefore is bringing the team down.
I’ve play on many teams and coached many teams and if the QB is not capable of making plays on a regular basis the team does not play with that edge. Just look at Elway’s teams and Marino’s teams and Payton’s teams….none f those team would have been/would be anything but mediocre at best given their talent. The gamesmanship and leadership of these individuals did/does a lot for the team. Look at Minnesota with Farve. They added one game breaker to thier team but all of the other pieces where there and the were the epitomy of underachievement ….not anymore.
It’s unfortunate that that one position has such a profoud affect on the team but it’s even moreso the case when there is no leadership anywhere else. I think for all of the problems Pollard might have been to the chiefs (getting beat deep and missing tackles) he wasn’t afraid to call out his peeps. You need that on a team that’s trying to find it’s way otherwise they grow complacent with losing and except it as what has to be given the circustances. The second half of the 2008 season our defense started looking pretty good and I give him some of that credit and for the record I think he would have been a great linebacker on our system.
Leadership is essential to creating success. If Matt Cassel has it then we need a triple dose of it now.
When I say he is bring the team down what I mean to say that he does not give them any hope when things go bad and I don’t think it’s wrong to say that that’s part of his jog. If he isn’t doing that he’s is part of the problem and therefore is bringing the team down.
I would argue the opposite. Look at Cassel’s 4th Qtr stats. In the games that stay somewhat competitive, ie, Dallas, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, it always seems like there is a chance.
You could have a point if you only look at the last two weeks, but those are games where the mistakes (by more than just Matt Cassel) compounded themselves and the “wheels fell off” so to speak.
Matt has proven himself to be a leader by taking so many hits and popping right back up, and at times making big plays, ala Chris Chambers 61 yard TD pass vs Pittsburgh.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
cpa13... what 61 yard TD?
i keep diggin and diggin and I see no such 61 yard TD vs Pittsburgh. Chris Chambers did that?
I think you guys are so far up the Cassel kool -aid wagon, your vision might have been deceptive at times when you unwilling ignore certain events during a game and then add something else on top of other things. In this case, Cassel somehow did not exist the past 2 weeks and your time capsule of the Pitt and Dallas game rides on through week 15.
Ok. fine…. Cassel is awesome. I remember when he toss 4 Tds and pass over 400 yds and led the team to 11-5 record. Dude..I am so pumped we got him for cheaps. Oh wait…that was 2008 with Moss and Welker…..whatever…Cassel is da shytt!!!!
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 11, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
61yds....not a TD, Chambers went out at the 1...cuz he didn't want to get hit.
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
It's hilarious that you accuse people of having deceptive vision when you completely ignore the fact that in every significant statistic Cassel is a better QB.
I’m convinced you are related to the Croyles and the fact that you want to fan the flames of a 300+ post about a moot point instead of looking at the defense or the other glaring holes on this team, makes me question your ability to rationally enjoy football.
Our defense gave up 87 points in two weeks and the only thing people want to talk about is Matt Cassel. Classic.
cpa ... Cassel might be decent in 4th Qtr, but what about his 1st and 2nd Qtr stats???
what are we at halftime? how much are we being outscored by in 1st half of games this year? of course, the Den game last week was fairly close at half … 3rd Qtr was beyond atrocious
but wow, Cassel is a good 4th Qtr guy … alright then, I feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better already!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Actually, I feel like Peyton Manning was more in the face of his teammates earlier in his career.
He’s become more of a winner since he stopped yelling at them so much, but that’s just my impression.
Back away from the keyboard skip
Cassel has not played well but by no means has he brought the entire team down. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s a team effort starting from the top brass, down to the coaches and down to the players. They’ve all done their fair share of stinking the joint up. We need to get through the rest of this God forsaken season and Pioli and Haley need to right their wrongs with a proper draft, free agency and a real coaching staff. Cassel needs to get his $63million head on straight and the rest of the young players need to grow some stones. There is so much wrong with this team that you just can’t hang it on one guy like that.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
ROFLMAO
Just might be my customize #7 jersey for christmas :)
I think Cassel jersey number should be changed to “3 & out”
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Dec 10, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what Haley thinks
“I’m going to play the guys that give us the best chance to win, and Matt is one of those guys right now,” Haley said. “I feel pretty confident in Matt and his abilities, and he’ll bounce back and have another great week of preparation and give us a chance to beat Buffalo.”
Haley didn’t agree with the notion that Cassel would be better served by backing up Brodie Croyle, even if the break was just for the Bills game.
“The people that survive some of these tough times will be better for it, myself included,” Haley said. “That’s part of the deal.”
But Haley indicated he believed Cassel was strong enough to overcome the toughest stretch of his professional career.
“I think the kid is a tough, tough guy and generally when you’re tough, you can handle adversity,” Haley said Monday. "That’s the quarterback’s job, to stand adversity in the face and overcome. Yesterday was adversity.
“Matt is a young quarterback experience-wise. Every game is experience for him. I expect him to learn from yesterday’s experience just like from the first 10 games he played.”
http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo-20091207-matt-cassel.32f7d779a.html
Haley was a pretty good judge of QBs at Arizona, so I’ll take his word for it, at least for this year.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
I would love to see this
….happen. becuse it truly would mean say alot about him. I think it is clear here that Haley recognizes the not-so-good play and if he moves though it he will be stronger for it. I applaud Haley’s leadership here and understand that he is trying to develope this guy but he preached competition and the best guys playing for everyother situation. Why not the QB. I still think Brodie is better and deserves a shot.
Congrats on one of your first posts being so successful...
And a well written piece as well. Keep it up, mate.
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
Haley has NO choice
Cassel is more important than Haley to Pioli. Haley either wins with Cassel or the next coach gets a shot with Cassel. Haley is trying t win with Chicken Shit because Pioli says he is the man. He cannot openly say anything or else it shows separation in the front office so Haley talks Cassel up and tries to come up with a game plan where Cassel does not LOSE the game for us. With a limited amount of talent it is hard to cover up an average QB though and you can not make a bad QB look good period. So four years in an offense and a star studed roster and Cassel will look average or slightly above however the truth is showing right now.
Cassel is a below average QB who could not get a starting job in college. He is very good in front of cameras and knows how to talk. In the end results will speak alot louder than words.
After this season my respect for Billichick and what he was able to do with Cassel last year impresses me alot more. Also what he has been able to do in NE this year in what is obviously turned into a restructuring year for them. Letting Seymore go Bruscis retirment Vrabel to KC and many other moves that lowered the level of talent this year on the team from last year in order to keep his team towards the top of the league for the next 10 years as the draft picks he gained in a deep year will keep NE a contender. The fact that he has NE in contention for the playoffs trully is a remarkable feat.
So just to compare
Billichick without Pioli PASS first year
Pioli without Billichick FAIL first year
That's an unfair comparison.
Comparing GM to HC is an incredibly apples-to-oranges comparison.
And never mind the talent differential between the two teams last year. Pioli isn’t a miracle worker…you can’t expect us to go from 2008 Chiefs to the 2007 Patriots in one fell swoop.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Dec 11, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I think
Matt Cassel is OVERRATED AND OVERPAYED!! He has had nothing but problems since he got here, they payed him big time money waaay to fast. The only reason he was good in New England last year is because he was a product of the system, He sat the bench there for 5 years doing nothing but learning the play book, learning the players, and learning the team. Of couse he did great there, he will never never every be that good in Kansas City no matter what we do with out team.
This "overpaying Cassel" argument is a little ridiculous also
1) As Joel pointed out earlier, he is in the middle of the pack as far as salary of starting QBs go
2) As pointed out repeatedly during the Cassel contract signing earlier this year, only about 30 mil of his salary is gauranteed. The Chiefs were already on the hook for half of that because of the franchise tag. Therefore, the Chiefs only had to give an extra 15 mil to lock the guy up for 6 years. A potential franchise QB for 6 years for only 15 mil and people think this is ridiculous big money? In comparison, Mark Sanchez’ contract is for a guaranteed 28 million for only 5 years. He also has “sat on the bench and did nothing but learn the playbook” for 2 years at USC, and started for only one season for the Trojans. And all of his experience was at the college level
3) Your main criticism of Cassel is that he learned the playbook, learned the players, and learned the team and did great with that knowledge. And the problem is…….?? I will take a guy who has proven he can succeed when given time and the proper tools to work with any day of the week.
4) How can you be so positive of his failure after 11 games with one of the worst teams in football? If he had failed leading the Patriots, then I would be the first to condemn him. But he succeeded. He had an amazing season. He may never be that good in KC, but there is absolutley no proof now that he is OVERRATED and OVERPAYED (and I think you meant OVERPAID)
by Fourstrike89 on Dec 12, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
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