Chiefs Coach Haley Backs Cassel, Again
by Joel Thorman on Dec 8, 2009 8:30 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintThe quarterback controversy rears its head again - but with less juice this time. Chiefs head coach Todd Haley quickly threw his support behind Matt Cassel following the quarterback's worst game to date in his short career. A simple "Yes" to Cassel being the starter shot down anything to the contrary.
Speaking to reporters yesterday, Haley talked a little more about his decision that is ultimately causing me to write the words "quarterback controversy" a few times this week.
"Benching" Cassel is intended to be a lesson of sorts.
"In my opinion," Haley said, "the experience he had to go through coming out of the game and watching his backup play is more important than him being in there for that last quarter."
Like he has in the past, Haley noted his quarterback's toughness and ability to face adversity and said in those situations "how they respond will tell a lot about guys playing that position." Cassel apparently responded well in Haley's eyes considering he was already back at it early yesterday morning preparing for Buffalo.
Chiefs head coach Todd Haley had plenty of opportunities (and reasons) to take a shot at his quarterback but didn't bite. He's clearly in Cassel's corner and said he was "well prepared" and said the receivers have to catch some of those balls.
"We had a couple throws we made that the guys catching the ball need to make in order to really have a chance to win the game or be in a better position in that game," he said.
Haley said Cassel played well enough for the Chiefs to be tied or leading at halftime. After the disastrous third quarter, the coach said, "I know he's disappointed in a couple plays he made in that stretch (third quarter)."
Overall, the protection on Sunday seemed to be tighter and more apt to that of a productive offense. Even with that offense, Cassel didn't get things going, which has been one of the biggest knocks on him in recent weeks. Again, though, Haley didn't bite and singled out the receivers as a group that needs to gt better.
"The receivers that are playing have to get open," he said. "That’s their job, whether its receivers, backs or tight ends. As a whole, we did a pretty good job protection-wise, but that doesn’t mean that somebody is open or there’s a guaranteed completion out there."
I know there are some currently looking for that "There are no sacred cows" quote from Haley but hold on a second. While he did say that, can we all agree that the quarterback position is a little different than others? You can demote and promote receivers, safeties and all other positions week in and week out with not much change. Except quarterback.
I think the psyche of a quarterback can ultimately affect his play, and maybe Haley feels Cassel needs support right now. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, especially considering Haley's emphasis that the benching was not meant to single out any one person, instead it was the offense collectively.
If that is the case, then I wonder if some players in the locker room feel Cassel is a sacred cow.
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I doubt they see him as a sacred cow
anymore than Bobby Wade is seen as one.
As John Madden might say, “Having no open receivers is a problem for a quarterback who’s passing the ball.”
If you only knew...
When Bowe is back
We won’t see as much of Wade. That said, Wade hasn’t been ALL bad this year…Sunday was a horrible game for him though.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
The bummer of how horrible it was for him
is that he had a serious opportunity (with Bowe gone) to step up and show his mettle. Yeah that didn’t so much happen. If anything he really showed he’s a body and is easily replaceable. I mean, Wade got multiple attempts to make up for his previous bad plays – and blew every one of them. Even if Bowe drops a ball, you don’t see him dropping every other ball!
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 8, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
re
If Haley wanted to put last week behind and carry on he just screwed up. I don’t get why he’s letting this linger on as some sort of secret “look at me the brilliant coach” mind #^%&uck he’s playing on Cassell. I don’t get it. I’m sure Cassell has something like," coach i’m standing right here and I can hear everything your saying going on and everybody thinks your an idiot", thing going on. All Haley had to do was say he pulled Cassel because the game was a blowout and he didn’t want him to get hurt, and leave this condescending bs about teaching him a lesson in the lockeroom.
Denver has a solid pass defense, all of our receivers are rejects from the waiver wire. Their not getting separation, were seeing very generic defensive looks that minimalize risk.
Chiefs fans, this is going to be a tough stretch the next few games.
Coach Haley, for the love of pete focus the team on fundamentals, communication, and execution. Set up the next games as a lab, figure out the players on this team that can pick up on the subtle techniques that make starting NFL players and stop trying to convince everybody your Sigmund Freud in a headset.
RE
All Haley had to do was say he pulled Cassel because the game was a blowout and he didn’t want him to get hurt, and leave this condescending bs about teaching him a lesson in the lockeroom.
Haley said on Sunday that he took him out because the game was out of hand.
Set up the next games as a lab, figure out the players on this team that can pick up on the subtle techniques that make starting NFL players and stop trying to convince everybody your Sigmund Freud in a headset.
That entire season has been a “lab.” There are more things than just technique when it comes to coaching, especially a young team.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
I've always thought peolpe (coaches included) make to big of deal of pulling a QB
Even the best pitchers in baseball have a day now and then where they are “off” and can’t get it done. That’s how I would treat my QB if I was a coach. If the starter (who is my best QB) is having a terrible day, why not try the next guy and see if he can spark the offense and get something going.
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
porkchop, good point except for one tiny little thing ...
Cassel’s not having just a terrible day, he’s having a terrible season … which is why I want to see Croyle start the rest of the year … because quite honestly, I can’t tell that Cassel really IS the best QB right now, and in my mind he certainly hasn’t PROVEN himself to be
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Yeah, Cassel should be benched
That would give us a better idea whether or not he’ll be able to become the QB we need him to be. We already know Croyle isn’t the QB of the future, so he should start the rest of the season.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Couldn't have said it better myself!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
How does sitting on the bench "give us a better idea whether or not he'll become the QB..."
And how many games has Brodie won as a starter?
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
eh
I was trying to be sarcastic….it’d be idiotic to bench him IMO
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
And Brodie has always had this problem of throwing off his rear leg
He continued that yesterday. If two seasons plus some haven’t corrected that…
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 8, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Cassell Sucks
Is Trent Green available? :P
by Ryan in Nixa on Dec 8, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I can FEEL the sarcasm, I can TASTE it ... you're learning jmcgoblue
but seriously folks … thing is, we DON’T know that Croyle isn’t as good or better than Cassel RIGHT NOW in THIS SYSTEM … we don’t and can’t know because he’s sitting while Cassel deproves (opposite of improves?) almost weekly …
considering neither Pioli or Haley have shown they care one bit about actually winning games, considering they’ve treated this entire season since before the draft as one long process of mere talent evaluation … I honestly think they NEED to start Croyle and see what’s he’s really got … at this point, what’s there to lose but a game or two? and should Cassel go out and have more horrible games, what will THAT do to his confidence, the team’s confidence in him and the team’s overall confidence level?
unless Cassel actually IS some “Sacred Cow” then he truly deserves to sit a few games … competition, remember? best player on the field, remember? right now Cassel is NOT “the best” … it’s really that simple
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
right now Cassel is NOT "the best" … it’s really that simple
How are you justifying this statement?
Based on Cassel’s play over two games, this season, or the body of work in its entirety?
Based on Croyle’s…play?
Is there anyway possible for you to honestly make this assessment without actually being a part of the Chiefs staff or is this just based on the flavor of the month reaction to a 2 game slide?
based on this year ... this team, this offense ...
after the Baltimore game, and Croyle was held up for his work ethic and good practices, etc, I was hoping that he’d get a second start … that never came … then we lost, and lost some more, and have since lost a LOT more, only now the losses seem to be worse than before
what I see is Cassel in a downward spiral right now, and that’s never a good thing for a QB or a team
now then, can you tell me how to honestly say that Croyle might not be better than Cassel right now? based on … what? let’s keep it simple … keep it to this year, this team, right now … Cassel is not getting it done, so what’s to lose by starting Croyle?
are people afraid that Croyle might actually do better than Cassel? would that be a bad thing??
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I can't say honestly that I know if Cassel is the best right now...
but I can’t say the same thing for Brodie either…All I have to go on is history i.e. the body of work and some things just don’t add up for Croyle.
All I can say is that once is a question, twice a concern and thrice is a trend
I understand, and I appreciate you admitting that (that perhaps Cassel is NOT the best we have right now)
and yes, Croyle’s gone down twice … to me, yes, third time would seal it: he’s not durable enough for the NFL, and that wouldn’t be a slam or a knock on the guy if it happened
and I won’t sit here and say “Croyle is SO much BETTER and whine whine whine” because he might NOT be … but I certainly WILL say: hey, what if, right now, he IS better? let’s find out, huh?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Yeah that'd be a bad thing
We’d have to admit we traded for a weak armed version of Scott Mitchell, but at least he was a 2 yr wonder…………
by mcclanahanman on Dec 8, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
"... that doesn’t mean that somebody is open or there's a guaranteed completion out there."
gee, ya think?!?
sorry, but IMNSHO Cassel DOES look like a “Sacred Cow” … players have benched and traded all year long going back to training camp … but Cassel looks horrid even after the O-Line improves but there’s no “accountablity” at (arguably) the most important position on the team?
well, none at the OC or HC positions either, it would seem … but maybe I’m being too harsh a critic, maybe Cassel isn’t the “Sacred Cow” here … maybe it’s his contract
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Cassel is not a "Sacred Cow"
He’s simply the best QB on our roster right now. Period.
Agreed
I also think continuity is important and Croyle has clearly indicated that he can not be trusted to start games so even if Croyle were better (he’s not) I think we’d be better off sticking with Cassel.
at this point , you're right
even though it’s BS……especially this “no sacred cows” nonsense……unfortunately, we’re stuck with this guy, and Pioli will chop Haley’s head off if he even considers starting Croyle….I don’t think Croyle is better than Cassel, just that Cassel is 2nd rate and we made a huge mistake bringing him here…….hopefully the plan is to establish an efficient offensive system and after Cassel gets used up, they can get a guy in here who CAN be the QBOTF
Joel, I understand your points on QB position being different and continuity, etc
but when you think of it, there have been a LOT of positions this year, both sides of the ball, that have lacked continuity … and at this point in the year, given the record and overall ineffectiveness of the offense (and team as a whole) I fail to see the value in NOT putting Croyle out there for a few games … if nothing else to see just what he DOES have, is he really worth keeping as 2nd? is he trade bait potential? or, omg … what if he lit the place up and both he and the offense looked good???
oh, that would be horrible … right?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
with all due respect, Scott, I totally disagree ... as of now Cassel is bad, and not in a good way
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Perfect time for me to bring this up:
I’m not against benching Cassel for a full game…. and maybe two. Even if they don’t bench him (which they won’t, I know) they need to immediately have his ass ride the pine if he starts slipping on Sunday.
Nothing against Cassel I’m one of his biggest supporters but his head hasn’t been right lately. If he starts messing up they need to sit him for a little while. It might be good for him.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 8, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions
Ok, I didn't mean to cross that out. Crazy ass SB Nation.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
The Croyle thing is driving me crazy.
Sorry if some of you take offense to this, but this couldn’t be a more typical case of the 2nd string QB being the most popular guy in town when things aren’t going well. This guy was on the verge of being run out of town. Everyone calling him “Brokie” Croyle, but now that Cassel is struggling he’s suddenly good?
Croyle’s stats are worse then Cassel’s. His career completion % is 57.7 compared to Cassel’s 59.4. His career yards per attempt are 5.4 to Cassel’s 6.6. Croyle has 8 total TDs and 8 total INTs to Cassel’s 36 TDs and 22 INTs. Croyle has never lead his team to a win in the NFL, Cassel has 14.
To me the key number there is the yards per attempt. Both Croyle and Cassel’s numbers are way below where they should be. However, at least Cassel is known as a short to mid range passer, that’s his MO. Croyle on the other hand is “Mr. Rocketarm” who can throw the deep ball and open up the passing game. The problem there is that his 5.4 yards per attempt is flat out HORRIBLE. So Croyle’s one strong attribute is a non factor.
If you want to argue that Cassel isn’t playing well and might not be our guy, you have every right to that opinion. Only time will tell. But this whole, “Croyle should be starting, he’s so much better then Cassel” stuff is just insane. IMHO
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
by KCporkchop on Dec 8, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions 10 recs
THANK YOU.
Jeez louise people.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
Couldn't have said it better my self! :)
Hey guys, Matt Cassel isn't the problem, being one dimensional is!
by IowaChiefFan on Dec 8, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Croyle has problems throwing the ball that have not been corrected in three seasons. What does that say?
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 8, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
See my sig for the reason why I think these articles are silly.
Our defense gave up 87 points in two weeks and everyone wants to talk about Matt Cassel. Classic. Only TEAMS, as a COLLECTIVE GROUP, decide our W/L record. I can't believe this needs to be said.
See my sig!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
see my sig?
(has nothing to do with it)
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
What do you mean hear?
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
well typically you do get upset with your QB when they suck
that’s how that goes. You don’t get mad at them when their winning. but these guys are pro athletes. This is thier job. Just like you or I, they are expected to find a way to get it done despite the obstacles. That’s what sports is all about.
What about when the obstacles are your wide receivers?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
If w/l record is decided by the TEAM,
then why is croyle gettin crap for not winning a game when he played with;
1. A worse O-line
2. A worse defense
3. A worse coach
4. And worse receivers
Just a thought, it seems like cassels is getting a little to much benefit of the doubt just because is daddy(pioli) is the president of the school board(GM)
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Dec 8, 2009 10:38 AM CST reply actions
I have to disagree.
1. Huard won 4 of 7 behind that line before he got hurt. Croyle didn’t win any behind that same line.
2. The 2007 defense was a top 15 that year. Jared Allen anyone?
3. I will give you Herm is a worse coach, but not by much since Haley has made a lot of rookie mistakes.
4. Did you forget Tony was on the team in 2007.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Dec 8, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
great response
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
?
how many games did Brodie play that ROOKIE season of his?
started 6, played in 9
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Dec 8, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Croyle got hurt....
most players do not lose the starting job because of injuries….Palamaulu, has been hurt twice this yr….does he lose his job for getting hurt…hell no!.
The only thing Matt Cassel does better than Croyle is scramble and make more money. Croyle has a better arm, better accuracy, and makes quicker decisions.
Forget New England
It took Matt Cassel 6 games to win with THIS team. Against the Redskins( that lost to Detroit) another win against the raggedy ass Raiders, and a win against the Steelers who are in a HUGE downfall right now…What has Cassel REALLY done?…For this team?
And it's taken Brodie almost a dozen....
And he STILL hasn’t won. What’s your point?
And you’re insane if you’re trying to take wins away from this team by blowing them off as crap teams we beat. The ‘Skins took the Saints into OT last Sunday. The Raiders are much better under Gradkowski. Yeah, the Steelers have been slipping, but that’s still the defending Champs, and they still have a pretty good offense. Plus, Cassel helped us rally against the Cowboys and the Raiders (the first time).
BTW, you’re trying to compare Croyle’s level of team worth to Troy Polamalu’s?!? Just stop right there.
All you guys calling for Cassel to be benched in favor of starting Croyle need to chill out. If Croyle has a better arm, accuracy and decision making skills, then why couldn’t he win? Why has he thrown a career 8 TDs to 8 INTs while Cassel has thrown 32 TDs to 23 INTs? Croyle IS NOT the better QB. Period.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 8, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Im not comparing Brodie to Troy
I was making a point about player not losing the stating job because of injury.
Unlike the Chiefs….Washinton is a team, that as the season has progressed,they have gotten better
We couldnt beat the raiders when Russel was starting and he threw for 97 yrds.
If its true that your O Line is better and the QB is getting more time to throw the ball, and he is still ineffective, then you make a change. Just like the Raiders did. The back up came in and they started looking like a real team
But you're basing 1 game of better OL play to determine that Cassel isn't good enough.
Yeah, the OL played pretty well in the Bronco’s game. Unfortunately the OL doesn’t make WRs catch any better. And, as long as we’re looking at just one game, let’s not forget that the Broncos have one of the best secondaries in the league. The receivers were getting blanketed pretty well on Sunday. AND, when Croyle did step in for Cassel, he didn’t do much better. The point is moot.
All I’m saying is that it’s way, way, WAY too early to talk about benching Cassel in favor of Croyle. Brodie is without a doubt NOT the answer. Why don’t we talk about holding Pioli accountable for not getting Cassel more protection and receivers? That is by far the more important issue.
BTW, about the injury thing. Croyle couldn’t prove that he was a viable option for QB AND he couldn’t stay healthy. He’s had that rep since he was in college. It’s not about him losing the starting role because he got hurt. It’s because he was a lousy QB AND he was always hurt. Do you seriously think that in Cassels place (who has been one of the toughest guys on the field) Croyle would have survived this long? I sure don’t.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 8, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
You may be right
But then again I might be too. But, at this point, wouldnt anybody be happy just to see the Chiefs at least TRYING to find something that works better than what has been going on all yr…..Like someone else said, Haley has been moving guys in and out all yr long, hell he even deactivated Charles once(who I might add is now our best offensive threat). Why not Cassel? Why not give it a try, see what happens? The season is lost, why not toy with the lineup now, when you have nothing to lose.
BTW….I do hold Pioli and Haley accountable for this entire mess we call a team…at least to a point…Herm and Carl screwed us up pretty bad to begin with.
Drew Bledsoe lost his starting job to Tom Brady because he got hurt...
i’m just saying…
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
little bit different....
that was a pretty bad injury…out for a long time…by the time he was ready to come back the Pats were rolling….dont fix it if it aint broke
that was my point.
Thanks for making it for me. Guys get chances. They take advantage (like Brady) or they fail (like Croyle).
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
How many games did he start?
And some would say that durability is his failure…
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
some would say his technique is his failure
Stronger arm? sure. Still throwing off the back foot, problem!
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 8, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
And the OL isn't a problem for Cassel?
You’ve got some wild double standards.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
don't fix it...
Unfortunately, the Chiefs didn’t do this – they gave Grbac his job back. And got rid of Gannon.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
more than Cassell.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
smart move
benching cassel in a blowout. hes not here to get hurt when we are down by 30 cassel will be fine, once we get him a few more weapons.
it's not apples to apples people
There is no logical reason to compare Brodie to Matt. They played on two different teams, two different schemes, an entirely different coaching staff and organizations as a whole.
If the trade for Cassel didn’t happen and Brodie was the starter playing like Matt has thus far…I guarantee this board would be lighting up with the bring in Thigpen speech.
When Matt has time to throw he consistently throws behind receivers, throws over their head, throws at their feet, just overall makes it a challenge to catch the ball. If Matt is throwing a catchable ball the receivers drop it. It’s a no win situation where Matt is equally responsible for his in-effectiveness as a QB. It’s not just the WRs here people.
If you want to compare Brodie to Matt then Brodie has to play. You can’t compare the two other wise. If Brodie comes in and makes the same mistakes Matt does then it is clear that Matt isn’t the biggest problem. However, from what we see on the field every Sunday..Matt is at least 40% of the passing problem.
Telling me a 27 year old QB still needs time to improve is telling me that this kid has been a back-up far too long.
We all saw what happened when Charles got to be the man in the running game. We also saw the immediate difference of Chambers, Wade, Long, and O’Callahan. On a team as desparate for wins as this one it’s hard to believe that we keep starting a guy that has been struggling as much as Matt has.
Bottom line – Matt is Pioli’s boy. If this was any other QB on the team he’d have been benched like every other under-performing player on the team.
This +1
Matt’s lack of accuracy is my issue and has been all year. Toughness is great but if you cant put a ball in a small window in the NFL you are going to fail..period, end of story.
by Ryan in Nixa on Dec 8, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think Croyle gets a fair shake...
I dont see the harm in starting him. Give Cassel a break from getting knocked around and be able to evaluate Croyle. He played well against Baltimore which is a very good defense…not as good as days past but still a good D.
As stated above, Croyle was hurt behind a terrible O Line. If your LOOKING for the right 53, then maybe give a few more guys a chance to see what they bring on game day.
And another thing...
if Croyle was given a chance and sparked this team, Im sure a lot of you would jump on the bandwagon reeeeeeeal quick
that's a great write knocknheads...
Matt is just not a very good QB right now. I don’t care that the kool-aid camp wants to see things all rosey. I get that. But they don’t have an argument. There is absolutely nothing to back up their feelings. You can’t prove what someone MIGHT do under different circumstances. You can’t prove that Matt Cassel will be the man when things get fixed around him. Cause it hasn’t happened yet.
On the other hand, we realists do have facts to back up our argument. We have every x-nfl player that talks about Cassel. We have every stat known to man regarding Cassel and his win loss ratio. I mean if that’s not enough then I’m sure that someone will try to tell me that the sun doesn’t really exist even though I can see it and feel it and it affects me and it affects everyone around me.
there is no sense arguing about what Cassel might become, because unless one of you have some secret crystal ball to foretell the future then you might want to consider going off the facts. The concrete proof, which as of right now at this moment at this time in the season, shows Cassel to be a bottom dweller QB. Because he is. He sucks right now. I for one am not ineterested in guessing at what he or anyone else MIGHT do one day. Because I can’t live in the future, I can’t tell the future and I don’t know what the future holds for him or anyone else on that team. Cassel may be a back up for Chicago next year for all we know.
I’m sure cutler didn’t see that trade coming halfway through the 2008 season. I’m sure no fans saw Shannahan getting fired and Kyle Orton coming to Denver. So it’s pointless and useless to defend Matt based on what anyone FEELS he might become later on. Because later on hasn’t happened yet. So it’s really just speculation and hope. But you need some evidence to give you hope. Again I beg anyone to show me where anywhere, and I mean anywhere at all in his stats or his record that he so awesome.
I mean the Haley argument we’ve had in the past is understandable. Coaching doesn’t take physical talent. Being a starting QB in the NFL does. And Cassel has not shown any above average ability. He is very inconsistent and that makes him a liability.
You raise some good arguments
But for me it’s simple. The best players on our team should be starting. Those players give us the best chance for winning every game that we play. Now there are a lot of X factors involved, but let’s not take them into consideration at the moment.
Matt Cassell is the best QB on this team. It’s not even questionable at the moment. I trust our head coach, our QB coach, our OC, and our GM. Those guys say Cassell is the guy. I got with that decision.
From watching both QBs play, Cassell is the better QB. I’m not going to throw out could be statements or what if statements, just from the games we’ve seen, Brodie is not as good of a QB. Decisions, durability, making the team better…. Cassell beats him on everyone of those things.
Is Cassell one of the better QBs in the league? Not right now. But he’s the best we have on our team. Therefore we go with him. We hope he develops and duplicates the success he had in NE as we build the rest of the team around him.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
You trust the HC, the OC and the QB coach...
but they’re all the same guy. Not exactly an endorsement by committee, you know. :-)
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
lol...
well… how about a simpler statement… “the coaches” of the entire team go with Cassell over anyone else….
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
OK...
But i don’t really care if… say… the DC and the DL coach think Cassell is the right guy.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
are you trying to miss the point?
The organization think that Matt is the guy… are you going to change it? No. I trust this new regime at least for one season.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
No, I am not.
I certainly get that Cassel is the guy the organization wants. Nothing could be plainer. And I agree with you that the regime ought to get at least a season to try it their way.
But trust them? I don’t know.
In most organizations, there would be at least three coaches who would have a say in a decision about the starting QB: the HC, the OC and the QB coach. The Chiefs are depending on one man – Haley – to make the judgments for all three of those positions. That’s a lot to lay on a guy who is a rookie HC. Is that deserving of my trust?
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
not with as many bad decisions that he has made this yr
taking on all those different roles was his first mistake
I don't trust this regime any farther than I could throw Arrowhead Stadium
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
303008 - you claim that Cassel is "the best QB on the team right now" ... but ...
… that’s a biased statement, because we can’t possibly know that unless Croyle actually gets the chance to play (mop-up duty aside)
what other games since the Opener vs Balt has Croyle played? how many starts? how many relief appearances? until the Denver Debacle … none
so you have no proof that Croyle is worse … nothing to go by or judge him on (this year) … as far as decision making, Cassel can’t decide quickly enough what guy to throw to, which is why he holds it too long, too often … and when he does throw, all too often his passes are errant
I don’t blame Cassel for drops … I do blame him for misthrown balls, errant throws, bad timing, lack of decisiveness, inability to read and adjust to defensive schemes and in general looking like he hasn’t a clue
if that’s your idea of “best QB” then this team may never win another game
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Thanks for the perspective of a self-appointed "realist"
Most of us “Kool-Aid” campers don’t see it all rosy…where did you get that? I actually consider myself to be a realist, because I’m pretty sure QBs take longer to judge than other positional players and I believe you have to live through the rough times to see what a QB is made of….just like Peyton, Elway, and most others had to do (and no, I don’t think Cassel is a future HOF QB like those guys). I don’t know if Cassel will work out, but I guess I’m a kool-aid drinker since I think it’s too early to judge.
If you think Croyle should be starting then I say you are not a realist at all…because a realist would see that Croyle has been hurt repeatedly throughout his career, going back to High School…there isn’t much reason to think that will magically change now that he’s in his mid-20s. Or maybe you aren’t advocating Croyle at all, and you want to spend the pick on some guy who did great in college. Give him half a season to prove himself…and if he doesn’t then just start all over again.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Dec 8, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
This is how I’ve felt all along. People want to give Croyle more time, yet throw Cassel to the wolves. What is the logic in that?
kray, sit down brother, I have bad news for you ...
the Sun doesn’t really exist … you’re hallucinating again, don’t forget to take your meds
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
But
I guess it’s ok for you to argue about “what might be” in regards to Croyle. And if you want to complain about Cassel’s stats and win-loss record, then let’s examine Croyle’s too. What has Croyle shown us? Nothing.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
kabrink, how much has Croyle played this year?
let’s examine this more closely, shall we? since the Baltimore game … how many games has Croyle been in? of those, how many have been starts??
thank you … that’s the point … Haley has been more than willing to bench anyone and everyone else on the team for poor performances … now it’s time to Slaughter the Sacred Cow and sit Cassel on the pine for a few games
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
he played last year, when he was healthy
and the year before? do you just want further proof that he can get hurt again? It was almost comical how often he got hurt when he had his opportunity. He’d be hell-a-good flag football QB though!
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
jmcgoblue, thank you for your non-contribution to the discussion
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Good points upamtn
Brokie hasn’t did anything for this team since he has been here but maybe things will be better this time. Hey why not try Boomer Grigsby again maybe he will be better now too.
We can just bring back all the (never was) that have been on this team the last few years and start them. Like you said we have no proof that they still don’t suck, so why not give them a try too?
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Dec 8, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
bringback, love the use of sarcasm ...
but seriously, at this point in time, why NOT run Croyle out there? at least he has an arm, which is more than can be said of Cassel, and he stands in the pocket and makes his reads, which is also more than can be said of Cassel …
he has faster release, he’s far more accurate and he looks like he has a clue … all of which are things that Cassel is NOT showing
but then I suppose you and others enjoy watching the carnage week after week … personally I’d like to see the team get better, not worse as we’ve done lately … and that starts with the QB
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Cassell looks like a QB who has been beat up...
and don’t steal my phrase! I invented that.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
I think we're all forgetting that Cassell and Moustakas went to the same high school.
wait… that might not be a good thing for either of them….
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Will the real QB please stand up
Our QB position has occupied by an impostor….a poser…a takling dummy with a low jersey number.
We need a real QB in here and Cassel is not a starting caliber QB in the NFL. He really has not had a goood game yet…..and while all of the blame has been put on the offensive line, he’s been able to get away with playing like Mike Tomczak of the 90’s Chicago bears. He is overly concerned about the rush, has poor field vision, lacks zip and anticipation on his throws….to be honest I challenge anybody to name something he does well besides run when he senses trouble. He is not an accurate thrower….if you look at the few receptions, the recievers rarely have an oppotunity to run after the catch. He lacks poise and shows zero leadership. I think he should be benched for the remainder of the season. Bodie is the best QB on our roster….period. He has much better tools than Cassel…..If it wern’t for his frailty, we wouldn’t even be talking about a Matt Cassel.
I think one of the reasons Chan Gailey isn’t with KC is because he wasn’t a Cassel backer. He was never quoted as saying anything positive about his potential. He was Brodie guy. Yeah, I trust Chan’s opinion on QB’s far more than Todd Haley.
If Haley truly coaches by his words, then Bodie should play because he gives us the best chance to win now. If he can stay healthy for more than one game I beleive he’ll settle nicely into the role and show us what he can do. Should he get hurt, bring in Gut not Cassel. I would take any STARTING QB in the league over Cassel.
I dunno Cassel has put together a couple of late 4th quarter TD drives in games the Chiefs won (OT Pitt) and loss (OT Dallas)
And you would take any starting QB over Cassel? Really? Brady Quinn? Alex Smith? Ryan Fitzpatrick? Kyle Boller?
And after your last statement
I will never read your posts again… Any QB? Such a terrible statement…
Hey guys, Matt Cassel isn't the problem, being one dimensional is!
I dont see the harm in Croyle starting...
whats the worst that can happen?….he sparks this team, or he plays just as bad as Cassel did this last game and we lose by 30 pts.
and...
you have Cassel healthy and ready to start fresh next yr with a better evaluation of whether you offer a contract to Croyle to be the back up next yr
agree
if you don’t resign Croyle then you expect the Chiefs to draft a QB. Which they might do anyway.
This is all null and void
if Cassel bounces back and puts up big games against Buffalo and Cleveland, gets his confidence up, and uses the momentum to finish strong even if they lose the last two games. I say let him play it out.
Not to mention..
If Cassel is the QBOTF…Maybe you look at it from a health standpoint. This season is lost. Why put your QB out there to get sacked 4 times a game and hit 20 times. Id rather take the time to evaluate my team, its needs, what I have and what i dont have, who does what well, and let the back up take the risk of getting hurt, then to have my Starter get a serious injury late in the season and maybe lose him for part of next yr because he is not healed yet.
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