"As far as Eric Berry - don't be surprised if he's a pro Cornerback.....as opposed to a pro Safety." Davis goes on to add, "He's got the build to play corner, he's got the feet to play corner, and he could very well follow in the same footsteps as a former Tenennesse All-American Safety by the name of Dale Carter, who became an All-Pro Corner."
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I would have boldened Carter's name
if I knew how (hint, hint)
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 3:36 PM CST reply actions
What a crappy parent you'd make
Rather than doing it for me, you to teach me to do it for myself.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
ouch
lol
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Do we really need another corner?
I think safety is more an issue.
It seems we need better cover LB and maybe a NB
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
i think haveing another corner
Would b nice all I know is brandon marshal isn’t going no where and neither is vincent jackson we need someone to shut them down I wouldent mind we have a lot of holes to fill
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Dec 7, 2009 5:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Flowers seemed to handle Marshall pretty well
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
yes, but...
Eric Berry would occasionally, just for fun, allow Marshall a large enough cushion so that he could make a reception only to have Berry fly at him at ludicrous speed and hit him so hard that snot, blood and spittle will spew from his every orifice.
I really wouldn’t care where they put Berry if he was picked. He will be the BPA for someone.
by Ochophosphate on Dec 8, 2009 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
We definitely need some D-Back help.
Brandon Flowers has been shockingly underwhelming.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
Agreed
He saved a TD with a great play yesterday
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Are you kidding?
Flowers is the only one in the secondary that is playing well.
Carr is decent
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
+1
"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.
by Kristospherein on Dec 7, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
We just don't have any cover guys outside of them
So we need coverage LB’s and a NB
As stated above
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
yeah, that's pretty true, i think
it’ll be interesting to see if Page is “invited back” next year or not
and if Morgan develops into a starter
But, either way, they need to draft AT LEAST one Safety that can cover and make plays on a regular basis.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Yep. The best defenses I see around the league are the ones with 4 good-to-great coverage backs on the field
at the same time. KC can barely field 2 at this point, and I’m not sure that one or both would be starting. I think Carr could develop into a good-to-great inside leverage CB on the edge, taking on big ‘n’ fast WRs, if that were his focus and those were the techniques he polished the most. But he’s almost never employed in that fashion, and he’s not very good when he gives up the inside and needs to break quickly on the ball between the hashes, which is what Flowers can do very, very well, but Flowers is a liability against big ’n fast when they just run the go route or the skinny post. Fine with help overtop, making decent plays on the underthrows.
I can see Flowers being a beast at S. Another Dawkins or Bishop if you let him get the bit in his teeth. Able to come up in press when others are blitzing, also, allowing you to attack the spread, rather than surrendering and playing zone with the back 7. And plenty good enough in coverage as a S to let you blitz off the corner and trust him to break up the quick pass to the WR the corner uncovered by blitzing. Pound-for-pound, one of the best pure tacklers in the league.
Morgan, Leggett and Washington have good measurables, but even for young players, they appear out of their depth in the NFL, at this point. I’m more willing to be patient with Washington, but even he hasn’t shown even ONE flash, which a future starter ought to have shown, even in limited action, at least imo.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
exactly
Our safeties are slow and can’t cover a piece of tupperware. We need someone who can help. In coverage and be a big time playmaker back there.
by golfbard on Dec 7, 2009 6:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Never discount the inherent quickness and leaping ability of a good piece of Tupperware.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
He DID strip the ball near the goal line.
And he did a much nicer job of sticking with Jackson in the 2nd meeting with SD. But he was obviously playing a team style of coverage, taking the under and counting on the over. Too short/slow to actually contest Jackson for the ball all by himself, though.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Plays here and there are okay
But Haley’s come out and said he doesn’t like yo-yos (Derrick Johnson). Brandon Flowers will make one good play then disappear for weeks…obviously teams are not having any trouble beating us through the air…and blaming safeties can only stand up for so long…
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
Easier to follow if you reply to a certain comment
Disappearing for weeks?
Flowers has made plays in every game and I don’t recall him getting beat or blowing coverage that many times the whole season!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Yeah
Granted he’s dropped a few easy picks, but he is BY FAR the best coverage player we have.
And I would say he’s in the top 10 of coverage CB’s in the NFL
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Also Flowers is probably the best in the league at CB
At coming up and supporting the run. Great open-field tackler.
Noticed that as well
He stuffed and held Marshall several times yesterday
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Obviously!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Flowers was outclassed by a large margin by Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin...
just to name a couple off the top of my head.
He did better against Vincent Jackson in the 2nd meeting with San Diego.
He hasn’t made the INTs I expected him to make, when the opportunities were there.
He’s clearly the best all-around DB the Chiefs have, right now, but I doubt that’s saying much.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Miles Austin?
Almost all of Miles catches where against our NBs or Carr (to a lesser extent). Austin may have caught a few passes while Flowers was covering him, but it was nowhere near the majority. The most frustrating thing about that game was when it became obvious Austin is going to have the game of his career Pendergast should had put Flowers on him. Instead he stupidly put NBs and we got blown out by a no name (though he has gone on to have a pretty good season).
Call me crazy, but generally you should have your top CB against the other team’s top receiver, if they have a definite top (i.e. the Saints do not) and particularly if the other team is utilizing that receiver.
Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/
Good point. I'm not at ALL clear on whether it was Flowers on Austin, to be honest.
Can’t remember the specifics, other than Austin’s success.
Makes sense to try putting your #1 CB on their #1 WR, provided your CB can handle their WR. If not, and it’ll take help, THEN, if your #1 CB can handle their #2 guy 1-on-1, and your #2 CB cannot, it makes more sense to single the #2 with your #1 and double the #1 WR with two of the #2-3-or-4 DBs. It’s very easy to get stuck in a situation where you can’t single ANYbody and somebody’s always open, if you follow the ‘My #1 versus their #1’ too dogmatically.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Hmmph
Asomugha, Woodson, Revis, Bailey, Samuel, Vontae Davis, Resean Mathis, Trufant. That’s 9 right off the top of my head. I have a feeling Top 15 is a little more accurate.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Top 10--Top 15
The dude is talented and he is a second year player.
All I’m saying is that Flowers is the least of our secondary worries
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Absolutely agree
Saying Top 10 though is a little too optimistic.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Give him another year or 2 and I would say top 10 is without a doubt!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
A lot can change in 1 season
let a lone two. For instance, we wouldn’t even been discussing safeties or much of the secondary at all last season because we all were so sure it was our biggest stregnth. We went from thinking we had two starting NFL caliber safeties & two starting NFL caliber corners to having 0 NFL caliber safeties & 1 starting NFL caliber corners. Plus the fact every draft brings at least one name to add to the list so let’s not count our chicken’s before the eggs hatch hombre
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
I agree to an extent
But you can’t say with certainty that Carr will decline.
I see you’re point though
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Not entirely true, KCS.
stagdsp and I, alone among our AP brethren, were speaking freely about issues with the secondary, and generally being ignored or disputed when we did so.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
yeah...
I think it was the “lesser of the evils” on the defense last year, but the “mancrushes” have clearly faded.
I always had worries about the coverage abilities of Pollard and Page, and the extreme lack of depth in the secondary. It would have been nice to have the secondary “locked up” and taken care of… but it’s clear that that’s not the case.
I do like Flowers, and to a lesser extent, Carr… Page still has a chance to be a contributor… but it’s painfully clear that pass coverage is a huge weakness for KC… and you can bet that Pioli will be addressing it this offseason.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
"Lesser of the evils"
I am with you and hmills on thinking that the secondary was the lesser of the Chief’s needs coming into the season. However, Pioli & Haley drafted Washington, who still isn’t on the field. They must feel that there is a weakness & that weakness is still in need of address.
absolutely
Washington was clearly a long term project…
I still hope he shows something next year
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
There's been a very strong correlation between Washington's presence on the field
and back-breaking pass plays. Mightn’t be entirely his fault, but he’s shown nothing in next-to-no playing time.
And, actually, we were saying that DB might be a bigger need than anybody else was saying, because KC NEVER manned up Pollard or Page, and that’s something you really need from your safeties. Even if you don’t do it a LOT, you have to be able to do it convincingly at WILL, or teams will just run spread against you and enjoy free release for multiple eligible receivers whenever they go extra wides.
Easy pickin’s for solid offenses. Excruciating to watch as a KC fan.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
And our Pass defense is terrible.
How do you explain our poor ranking? Flowers is part of that problem.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
Tell that to the Cassel haters. Zing!
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
by jk86 on Dec 7, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah it's getttin old
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
woah there
Flowers is NOT the problem. He makes plays every game. If he had better hands he might have 5+ Ints this year.
Hali, Flowers, and Dorsey are the only above average cornerstones we have for our defense. That leaves 8 spots in need of an upgrade or better performance from the current starter. No reason to knock that number up to 9
I don't want no Yo-Yos
by CaptainPoopDeck on Dec 7, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Well stated
Thanks for putting Dorsey in there.
Dude is a beast!
Hope this puts all those trade/draft deals to sleep on him!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
A lot more to the pass defense than the Cornerbacks
They can’t cover guys all day. If there is no pass rush (and there isn’t) the Receivers are GOING to get open.
Linebackers can’t cover for anything. Safeties are crap.
Pass defense is not all on the corners.
The thing about Flowers is
right now, on a team with weaker players, there are more obvious ways to attack the KC D. But mark my words, if the secondary were significantly upgraded, Flowers would quickly be seen as the weak link, because offenses would throw more to the guy who’s covered by the significantly smaller d-back.
Right now, he’s good enough to stick pretty close to ‘most anybody, but the Vincent Jacksons, Andre Johnsons, … all still present very good targets if Flowers is trailing them. He has a great knack for disrupting the pass after the WR has his hands on it, but he’s not going to legitimately contend for the ball at its highest point. it’s pretty easy to throw over him. You just don’t want to try throwing it in front of him with any consistency, because he has a great break on those balls.
On a secondary where every OTHER receiver isn’t in 10-yard-uncovered sphere, Flowers probably gets picked on more. Because of his skill set and IQ, I love seeing him on the field, and he CAN cover pretty well, but alone on the edge against big ‘n’ fast against cover-1, #24 is code for “target.” As a safety, able to single up smaller WRs and occasionally take on big ‘n’ fast in center field without betraying such intentions pre-snap, he could be a monster, because of his instincts.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
hmills
It’s those instincts that impress me about Flowers. His height makes him a target against taller receivers, but Flowers still brings some starting NFL skills to the DB position. I am not sure how many starting NFL skills currently exists on this Chief’s defense.
this is a great point...
if we were to draft a top CB (if Berry is perceived as such) and move flowers to CB2 spot…it would immediately make our secondary better.
The major point is…our biggest needs in order are: 1. OLine 2. Secondary 3. DT 4. LB and we could certainly use a TE and a FB who can block…but most people consider these to be lower priorities since you can find these lower in the draft.
"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.
by Kristospherein on Dec 7, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
Just great coverage DB with decent size, whether he plays mostly safety or not.
Right now, offenses can field more receivers than KC can field DBs who can cover them.
OL is huge need, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the 1st round is the place to address it. If Okung were on the board when KC’s #1 came along, it’d be hard to pass up, but he’s the best of what’s considered a fairly weak class, and I wouldn’t take anyone BUT Okung in the first, judging by early reports on early drop-off in that position group in 2010. Others (stagdsp?) have suggested taking OT a bit farther down, because there are some guys with more upside than Okung, if a team can show patience in developing one of them. I’m just petrified of blowing a high pick on left tackle on the BPA at PON, when BPA isn’t good enough (Victor Riley, Trezelle Jenkins). I’m petrified that this org, same as its predecessor, get a slow-footed tackle with tons of measurables, who will never be quick enough to compete.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
yep
I like Fox, Black and Capers that should all be there in the 2nd.
But, like you said earlier, KC could stand pat at Tackle (or sign a FA)
and draft a Center/Guard…
there are plenty of good Centers and Guards that are there for the taking in the 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th.
A top-tier safety or corner shouldn’t last past the 2nd, so I would expect an early pick or two for the defensive backfield
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Agreed Stag
Berry is my favorite, but we have options other than he and Mays:
Earl Thomas, Morgan Burnett, DeAndre McDaniel, Joe Haden………We could get a great player for the defensive backfield and still grab one of the guards you mentioned in the 2nd. We must grab one of the talented DB’s early cause they are gonna go fast, and any one of them combine with LB and NT is gonna make a huge difference for this D……
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 7, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Nate Allen
would be fantastic pick in the 2nd round IF they can’t get Berry in the 1st
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Damn I completely forgot about him........
Bring em all on!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 7, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
and...
as much as I hate KU
Stuckey could be a good NFL S
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I will give you this: He is better than Carr
But with the handful of picks both have combined and their ability to disappear without notice SHOULD be a cause for concern going into the offseason.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
I think we are set at starting DB
for many years
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
We shall see. Not saying I'm right or wrong.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
See how nice that is
I’m not sayin’ your wrong. I just think Flowers is a top CB and Carr is a decent starter. We need our draft DB from Ohio State (can’t remember his name) to develop as a nickel CB.
And get some LB’s that can cover a TE!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Thank you
Daniels is the guy we picked up
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
yep...
I think Daniels has played OK, and done well on ST.
Washington is super raw, so I’m hoping he starts to get it next year
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I always got there names confused
And was never sure which was which when Daniels was makin’ plays.
Once again AP sets me straight!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Yeah
KC NEEDS these mid-round picks to become solide contributors. That was Petersons big downfall IMO.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Dec 7, 2009 4:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think that was probably just a symptom of his painting himself into a corner with other, larger mistakes
that hurt him with respect to draft picks and salary cap. If he’d gotten quality, long-term starters with his first and second round picks, he wouldn’t’ve been making poor man’s picks for DBs in the later rounds, and struggling to keep the talented players he DID have, because he was overextended on big-names. He’d get it in his head that he absolutely NEEDED a guy and pay way too much. He’d waste a 1st-rounder on the best remaining player at a position of need, even if that player was on the wrong side of the talent drop-off divide, and end up with someone expensive and worthless.
Grbac, Bono, McGlockton, (Dan) Williams, … All guys he overpaid for, while he grossly underpaid guys like James Hasty, who were quality players who played great for him, and deserved REAL rewards, rather than the leftovers from the likes of Grbac.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
I think Berry could play CB
for the right team which already has established starting safeties. For a team like us I think we’d use him as a FS.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 4:17 PM CST reply actions
My thoughts Exactly!
Don’t snap my neck……
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Yup.
Fact is, you stock up on safeties with those kinds of coverage skills and you have a lot more flexibility about the coverages you can run, plus you have quality depth if, heaven forbid, a starting corner is injured. Look at Polamalu. PIT has lined him up in apparent press coverage, from which he’s run press coverage, dropped back in zone, and blitzed the o-backfield. Not all on the same play, but just the fact he can and will do anything from there REALLY gives offenses headaches, especially since he can EXECUTE all 3 at a very high level. 2-5 without him 4-1 with him, or thereabouts.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
I hope Berry does follow EXACTLY in Dale's footsteps
and comes to KC
maybe he could avoid the legal trouble, though :)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
by stagdsp on Dec 7, 2009 4:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think Berry & Haden
are two can’t miss prospects. We’ve spent enough on our D-Line already, let’s start giving some attention to our secondary which isn’t so nearly over invested in yet still full of talent. I always wanted our defense to be Ravens-esque but I’d have to say more accurately I now wish our D was like Arizona’s with their pesky secondary. DRC, Rolle, Wilson, and now McFadden – they’re absolutely tenacious. If KC ever had a secondary like the bird’s we could cause some real noise and I definitely think Berry OR Haden could be integral part(s) to that
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
I was impressed with them last night!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
shuffle, I agree.
I said it in another post… but
New England always seems to be drafting DBs in the first 3 rounds
You can never have enough good DBs, and KC certainly doesn’t have enough!
I wouldn’t be shocked to see 2 of the first 4 picks in the draft go to DBs… at least one Safety, maybe 2… maybe a CB
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I'm all for that
O-line, secondary and LB’s in the draft.
Maybe a KR/WR in the draft as well
And deal with O-line/WR through FA or trades
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
I hate getting into these
Draft discussions with the state of our team.
So many F’N needs!
Don’t know where to start!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
yeah, I hear ya
Toby Gerhart is the only RB that I really want KC to draft
I think they still have to draft:
Center
Safety (at least one)
OLB
KR/PR/WR (Gilyard from Cincy) or KR/PR/CB (Arenas, from Alabama)
OT (at least a developmental guy, if not a starter)
they could go CB, ILB, NT, OG as well… but they only have so many picks :)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I'm not too particular if they come in the draft or FA.
Depending on the best bets at the positions, I can easily see the 1st 2nd-rounder being DB, NT, C. There’s Casey Hampton and Wilfork at NT in FA, and I seem to recall thinking Zgonina was pretty good (Correct me if I’m wrong). At C, there’s Kevin Mawae. ILB, there’d be any number of decent players who would prosper on a well-built team, without facing a steep learning curve.
What might be problematical for 2010 draft is finding a top-shelf, high-percentage prospect. I kinda think though that I’d be drafting for WR and CB, and press one of ’em in to KR duties, rather than draft mainly for KR duties. But 2010 might be another year for roster-churning at WR.
I’m totally OK with adding a starting tackle. Just not sure the value’s high enough up high in the draft and the 2nds and 3rds might be a waste of time. Plenty of hay to be made at G, though.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Stag
Don’t you think we have to address linebacker! To me it is the biggest problem with stopping the run, getting a pass rush, and covering TE & RB in the passing game. I think they are the biggest reason are defensive statistics are so poor.
good question
I think OLB, someone who can REALLY get after the QB is a big need.
ILB is also a need… but IF they address the Safety, NT, and OLB positions…
the guys at ILB can continue to develop… and they WILL look better with better players around them
Mays can really stuff the run
Belcher is only getting better
Williams has had a solid year
DJ (if he comes back) still has a chance to contribute
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
If only the Browns would have passed on Roth
I really think we could have filled our need at OLB
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 7, 2009 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
LB
Mays can stuff the run if he doesn’t over run his gap assignment & screw up the run fits
Belcher shows some skills, but does he really have starter skills (not a Chief starter, but an NFL starter)
Williams much better this year than last, but he appears to be a Yo-Yo player, doesn’t he?
DJ – talent galore – does he not show better in games because of coaching or passion?
Chiefs have to find a franchise linebacker at least a player that can get to the Pro-Bowl!
again, I'm NOT saying these guys are "all pros"
BUT, I think they are serviceable IF a stud safety and passrushing OLB are acquired.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Stag
I know you are not calling these guys “all pros” Infact, I agree with you & your optimistic outlook of our young players. BUUUUT Pioli & Haley have to hit some homeruns in this next year’s draft! They have to find NFL impact player/s that show next year.
agreed...
I would like to see more impact starters from next years class.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
As usual, I'm with you, stagdsp.
And I think that we might see our current young LBs with different eyes if the changes you describe were made. Pretty much what I’ve been thinking and saying.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Chiefs landed 5 starters in the last draft, if you consider the minutes Magee's getting
as significant enough (and I do) and consider Cassel and Vrabel as a pair of starters with the 2nd-rounder.
Should be another fascinating offseason, and, judging by most of the opinions expressed, Pioli’s going to disappoint most APers. I doubt Pioli will go for nearly the up-side that most seem to want; rather, I expect him to do what he can to avoid potential downside like the plague.
Maybe one big, decisive FA move (C/NT/WR?). And I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Berry in the 1st, followed by another DB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, to decisively upgrade that position group. They’re in good position to land a 10-yr starting G/C in the 2nd or even 3rd, as well. And I kinda doubt many other teams are looking in that direction in 2010. Could be a rich harvest.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Mike Johnson from Bama?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
Didn't see him on Walter.
Is he listed as a G?
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Yeppers.
Johnson seems like he would be a better fit as a guard at the next level.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
he's very solid
one of the top 2 or 3 guards in the draft
Iupati is the best, but Johnson would be VERY good
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
It just dawned on this idiot that Steve was TALKING about interior line.
What round do you think?
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
late 2nd or 3rd
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Could Carr be a good safety?
I’d take Berry opposite Flowers if Carr could handle the middle. That would be dominant.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Dec 7, 2009 4:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions
That, or let Flowers freelance behind the other two. Just adding Berry or another great safety would allow them to do all these things and more.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Berry?
Eric Berry is a stud. I love to see him wearing red and gold. Putting him with Flowers and Carr would be pretty nice i think..
and...just maybe...
Page sticks around and continues to get better…
and/or Morgan
and/or Washington
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
May I ask Why?
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
healthy
and making plays…
sacks
ints
etc
not for us!
by kcstevesportsfan on Dec 7, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Corner... Safety... Whatever.
The guy can play football. That’s all that matters. If the Chiefs get him, I imagine they’ll put him at FS because our CBs are solid. The Flowers hater on this thread is just plain wrong (he consistently makes at least 1 noticeable play in every game) and Carr isn’t half bad either. Neither of them are the greatest, but they’re only in their 2nd year. They’ll continue to develop…. especially if they have a ball hawking FS and a pass rush to help them.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 7, 2009 6:13 PM CST reply actions
exactly
I totally agree.
Getting Berry and a pass rushing OLB would make a HUGE difference, IMHO
those two picks alone, along with a starting C would make me pretty happy with the draft
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I think a NT is a bigger need than a pass-rushing OLB
A top tier NT would make the rest of the D look a lot better
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
NT
A nose tackle is huge in a 3-4, but can you be sure that a college player is going to be a top tier NT. The top tier NT that keeps running games from attacking the middle of our defense, and also pushes the pocket during pass plays will help every other defensive position. The chances of finding an immediate impact player in the draft usually comes from other defensive positions than the d-line
Agree. That's why I'm looking so intently in Wilfork's direction.
Unless NE blew it with Ron Brace, it’s very likely Wilfork will fall to whoever wants him and has cap room to land him. The Chiefs fit that bill to a ‘T’. Unlike most, I could easily live with Cody in the 1st or Williams, if he slipped to the top of the 2nd, and gradually work the rookie in as a starter. My sense is that NE’s been in no hurry to push Brace into the fray, with Wilfork ahead of him on the depth chart.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Yeah, use him up before you ship him out
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
If the Chiefs could sign Wilfork that would be huge
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
The problem is
Even if they don’t want to keep him, It makes all the sense in the world for NE to franchise Wilfork and trade him to the highest bidder. I’d love to have him playing for KC as a FA signing…not so much if we have to give up a 2nd round pick for him.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
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