Sticking with Todd Haley and Matt Cassel is Key for Chiefs Long-Term
by Matt Conner on Dec 7, 2009 12:30 PM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintIf this week taught us anything about the NFL, it's, well, exactly what we'd say every week about the NFL: Every week is unpredictable. This week, you had the Redskins (the same roster the Chiefs defeated on the road in week six) nearly knock off the undefeated Saints, the Raiders probably ruined the defending champs playoff hopes (Steelers) and the Dolphins came back to defeat the Patriots, muddying the waters of the AFC Wild-Card picture. In other words, all is normal.
The reason for this picture is because it describes the Chiefs' season of ups and downs and it's easy to get an itchy trigger finger pointing in either direction. If you go by this week's stats, suddenly Bruce Gradkowski is the Raiders' QB hope and Jason Campbell erased all question marks about his place as the Redskins long-term answer at the same position. On the flip side, you might believe that Matt Cassel is not the answer and that Todd Haley needs to be "one and done" as the Head Coach of the Chiefs.
This is why it's vital for the Chiefs to stick with what they have - at least at those pivotal positions of quarterback and head coach. If you had the resolve to hire them (or trade for them) in the first place, then the chaotic waves of the NFL ocean dictates that you must keep them. In fact, the most destructive thing you can do at times is to continue to replace coaches, schemes and players at the skill positions. The learning curve is too great - for coaches and players - and the speed of the game is simply impossible to understand until you're in the moment, no matter how great you were in college.
The Colts are what they are because of continuity. Jim Caldwell is an extension of Tony Dungy. From the front office to the coaching staff, from ownership to personnel, the Colts continue to draft and groom the same types of players year in and year out. Every scout and coach are all on the same page. The linemen have chemistry and when new faces show up, there are identifiable slots for them to fill. And of course, it doesn't hurt to have Peyton Manning.
But even the Saints show the same. They upended the defense this off-season, but that comes after a few years of having Sean Payton learn the ropes of being an NFL caliber head coach. It's the test that Pittsburgh faces now in their current slide and what you'll see with such a model franchise is that there will be no doubts about any changes. Mike Tomlin will remain head coach. They will make the proper adjustments. And chances are, you'll see them continue to fare well in the long run - even if the 2009 season ends up a disappointment.
Sure Matt Cassel had a JaMarcus-esque start this last Sunday. And sure Todd Haley's made some questionable calls. Perhaps you weren't a fan of either in the first place. But they are here, for better or worse, and if the Chiefs hope to truly take the next step forward, the team's better off sticking with these guys through thick and thin for the foreseeable future.
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Agreed, and to repeat a fan shot I put up earlier.
Anyone else think that Matt Cassel is the least of our problems right now? It’s convenient to place it on the QB of a bad team’s shoulders—but does anyone out there understand that we are weak/lacking in nearly every position on our field? Cassel might not be the next Montana, but on a good TEAM — y’know, that thing that consists of a GROUP OF PLAYERS who COLLECTIVELY decide our W/L record — I think we could see him in a Super Bowl game playing for us or someone else.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
I could see Cassel playing in a super Bowl
Coming in to play mop up duty for a real QB
by mcclanahanman on Dec 7, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
play calling
If you have more than one weapon use it. They are burning Charles to the ground. Chambers has been a monster, compared to others here, but where was he on Sunday. Even with Bowe where is he when he is playing. Both of these receivers are supposed to be our number ones, but they seldom throw the ball at them. Other teams use their best weapons during the entire game but we dont. Instead we use Charles for everything, he has his hads on the ball as much as Cassel. He is hurt now and is asking for someone else to step up. Seems fair to me since no one else has.
One problem
Cassel has been bad ALL the time with a few good plays.
I am not out for Haleys head but will promise this if his tinure rides on Cassel he might as well leave now. Cassel is 100% not the answer for the Chiefs.
When you say Cassell isn't the answer...
Did you say that during Trent Green’s first year?
Or Peyton Mannings?
Small sample size doesn’t do much (whether its good or bad).
by Joel Thorman on Dec 7, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
Cassel has cast-off WRs, a RB who fumbles at least once a game and a bad offensive line protecting him. Name me a QB who can overcome that?
Croyle
Moves this offense even with all the bad things you said. He makes up his mind where he is going with the ball and throws it hard.
Trent never had 2..
..games in a row this bad. Ever
I think its just way too early to tell.
Before yesterday, he was VERY good about not throwing INT’s (what some people complain it is him holding onto the ball too long). He’s had a few 200+ yard passing games (which is saying something considering his circumstances should probably prevent this). I think the team supports him and his “fighter” playing personality— and that is HUGE to building team chemistry. He has absolutely NOTHING to work with. Just way too early to tell IMO.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
by jk86 on Dec 7, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
how has he been bad all the time.
he’s been above average all season. not good, and definitly not great, but still above average
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
I think
he’s been average most of the season… great on some 4th quarter drives and OT…
and below average the last two games
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Pretty much off-target to start games. Haven't seen 2 solid halves from him, as yet.
Haven’t seen Haley be aggressive for 4 quarters very often, if at all. And when he has, the offense has disappointed. But with the losses mounting, Haley’s not one to leave things the same.
That’s the biggest issue facing Haley, right now, imo. Be LOVELY to achieve some stability, but it’s tough NOT to make changes, when what you’re doing isn’t working. OTOH, letting SOME things settle down and focusing on EXECUTION, rather than a new wrinkle that MIGHT work, might be more productive.
That’s what makes it so hard to judge the brain trust. Some of the things Clancy keeps doing that seem stupid might be because he believes in the overall plan, and knows that the key is execution, rather than parlor tricks. Haley, on the other hand, has resorted to quite a few parlor tricks. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Getting a reputation for pulling stunts can create hesitations in the opposition down the road, and, dammit, if Croyle could have completed that pass, the situation clearly was ripe to pull off the fake.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
tell that to the guys complaining about him
calling draws
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Its happining again
Cassel might be the Qb of the future, but it is starting to remind me of when Elvis was in the house. Reasonably good QB until he hit here, then fell on his face. I think it goes back to the coaching staff. They are not working with what they have, trying to force what they have to conform to them.
My amen was for the article not the post above.
by Chieffan_Toby on Dec 7, 2009 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
uh....no
generally speaking competence is not a once in a lifetime thing, as it is proving to be with this lot.
There really is NO area on this team that isn’t subject to replacement if the team hopes to success. Top to bottom
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
I think Cassel has what it takes… There is knocks on him I don’t deny… Holding on to long.. Often over throws… But he has made good throws too… And to recievers the last few weeks that weren’t even on the opening day roster… Cast off’s if u will… So in short chiefs fan be patient… I’m sure cassel will never be a Peyton manning but even peyton didn’t look good his first season.
by Chieffan_Toby on Dec 7, 2009 12:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Exactly, playing Chambers his first week with the team could have been a huge disaster
Since he had very little time to work with Cassel or the playbook. But, he scored 2 TD’s so no one complained…I wonder how it would be had he come in and not performed at the same level.
We need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day and we already have a better record after dumping half of Herm's team. That should be plenty telling. In a year or two we WILL be AFC West leaders.
BTW, Tom Brady will have to win out to match Cassel's record last year. Cassel has no talent to work with. Receivers aren't open, and when they are, they drop passes or run routes incorrectly. He may hold onto the ball too long but good game managing and mature QB's do just that. I'd take a 4 yard loss on a sack than forcing a ball into the hands of the other team. Imagine your hatred if he threw 20INT's in 11 games like Cutler. Give him some time to prove he was worth that AVERAGE NFL contract....
Does anyone know if Bowe is back this week?
by casselreadychiefs on Dec 7, 2009 12:46 PM CST reply actions
lately I have to really avoid many comments because
I was just as defensive of trent green his first year…
I think its ridiculous to bash todd haley or matt cassel yet….I think this team is obviously a mess…
BUT cassel has the clutch gene, hes not perfect, hes not a top 5QB, but with the right people around him, he can be our trent green with a little more of a leadership 4th quarter comeback gene…
give it time…this is still a team that has had TERRIBLE drafting all the way back to 2000….
I think if we look like this next year, go ahead, REAM them…but right now, its far too early…this offseason will be a bunch of doubters etc….
go look at trent’s stats, and he had priest, he had an OL, he had tony G….what does cassel have? charles? cmon.
his top targets were all signed this season…they were ALL someone else’s trash…fact is, gannon said it best when he spoke of timing…and needing the offseason to get it down…
cassel HAS to think oh my gosh im going to get hit and fumble…every time he holds it more than 2 seconds, its why hes never comfortable even with time…that will change when he feels he can have that time…
he was doing a GREAT job of not turning it over, the past 2 weeks you can blame cassel but I saw a INT yesterday where a wrong route was the issue…I saw 2 dropped TD’s, one by wade(overthrown a bit, sure…but it hit him in the hands, you make that catch, ask any nfl coach, if it hits you in the hands, you better catch it..period..and lance long dropped one as well before he misfired to charles off his backshoulder(also catchable)
at this point I think people need to take it easy, and realize that we have MUCH bigger issues with our defense, and our skill positions on offense…cassel has no cast…qb is only as good as those around him…
by SDChief on Dec 7, 2009 12:47 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I agree with all but one thing
That pass to Charles looked to me like it was going to hit the defender in the helmet, that ball was uncatchable in my opinion.
Well said....
My only comment, “What he said”. It is hard to be patient and it all comes down to managing our own expectations of our team. If we really view them as a 2-14 team trying to improve then none of this is surprising.
by casselreadychiefs on Dec 7, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
that missfire off charels shoulder
i believe was the result of being hit as he threw. good defense on the broncos part there as i think that was a defenive stop not a missque
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
i def agree about the defense being a bigger issue...
they’re giving up 500 yds just about every game. I think some people on here are gonna be really pissed when we have another defensive slanted draft, but we need some major speed upgrades on D, not to mention quite a few pieces on O too.
What I think is funny
is that a lot of people think McDaniels is a genius because of what he has done in Denver with Orton. But McDaniels wanted Cassel to start his franchise with.
If McDaniels is such a genius how can Cassel be garbage?
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Cassel is a 2nd year starter, on a terrible team throwing to Bobby “Slick Hands” Wade, Mark “When I’m Open, if I’m open, I drop it” Bradley, Lance “Not Long Enough” Long and he is taking snaps from Rudy “Let’s see how high you can jump” Newswanger.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 7, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
And don't forget
He spent half a season handing off to Larry “Smack My Bitch Up, 2.7” Johnson.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 7, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
also cant leave out chambers being cut by a team in our own division that is in a playoff run.
and pope being signed after the cards(not loaded on TE"s) cut him
he did have a 100 yard game against the browns
so i guess that means we can expect charles to get 200 yards
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
That's a great point PA and if you'll allow me my friend i will attempt to answer that question for you.
I am pretty sure that Josh wanted a solid short to medium range QB that would listen to what he was told to do. Everyone knew about Cutler’s attitude and refusal to listen to advise. Like going long and taking crazy risks when it wasn’t necessary.
Josh was looking for a guy that wouldn’t turn the ball over too much and that he could build a simple easy to run offense around. Cassel would be great at that.
He’s good enough that with a good line he can throw short accurate passes most of the time. Not all though.
Haley wants a Kurt Warner. His play calling is not oreinted to short and sweet. He likes airing it out deep. He needs a very accurate pocket presence savvy QB. Cassel is not that. Not even close. Past 25 yards he is very innacurate and inconsistent.
I like your argument though. It’s something I would have said. Rec’d I disagree …but rec’d
I fully agree on Haley.....
I believe Haley can be a good head coach. He definetely needs a better supporting staff of coaches in my opinion.
As for Matt Cassel, I was okay with the trade, because I figured a 2nd rounder to gamble on a qb was better than the money #3 overall would have costed us. That being said, I don’t think Matt is our future. The biggest thing I noticed this weekend was that even with time to throw he couldn’t pull the trigger, and when he did the throws weren’t on target. I believe with a proper system and tools surrounding him, he could get us to the playoffs, but I don’t think he’ll ever be a Superbowl winner. In my opinion you need a guy who you can put the ball in his hands and let him win the game for you. Cassel hasn’t shown me he has that ability.
I think that Pioli needs to continue in NE tradition and draft a mid to late round qb, and keep gambling for another Tom Brady. I don’t think we need the contract a 1st rounder commands at QB. So with that said I can live with Cassel until/if we strike gold.
I do agree with the point that we need stability, and with the proper coaching support Haley could be around for a long time. Kudos on sticking your neck out on this one. Rec’d!
I will bet you KC drafts a QB somewhere in 2010. I reember Pioli mentioning that they drafted a QB almost every year he was in NE.
My long, drawn-out predictions that no one cares about, nor will bother to remember:
1. Todd Haley will still be the Chiefs Head Coach up to the 2011 season.
2. Clancy Pendergast won't make it to the 2010 season and was never intended to. Last-minute hire for a position that needed to be filled.
3. Todd Haley will not be the OC at the start of the 2010 season.
he's indecisive and off target when he has time because he's so uncomfortable and out of sinc
from not having time or a real pocket to step into the other 90% of the time. and he has shown the ability to have the ball put in his hands and win it, especially at the end of games, that’s called clutch. he’s done it in a couple of wins and a couple of losses where the D just couldn’t hold a lead.
I agree he has had flashes of brilliant 4th quarter play
However we need him to be more consistent throughout the entire game. He needs to learn to throw the ball away instead of taking sacks all the time. You look at some of the elite QB’s like Peyton and he still has a very good completion percentage but rarely takes sacks cause he throws the ball away. I think that is one stat that is skewed for Cassel, I think if you took the sacks away (as in he gets rid of the ball) he completion percentage would be quite a bit worse.
Sorry that got a little off topic, but what I’m trying to get at is that he’s serviceable in the right system, but he definetely hasn’t shown he can be a consistent winner. I just don’t think he’s the guy to make us competitive every year, and as a fan, that’s what I want. A shot at the playoffs and more every year.
With that said, I still think we need to keep our options open at all positions, including QB. On a side note, part of the problem with the D not being able to hold a lead is because they’re on the field WAY to long. Granted yesterday they couldn’t stop them at any point during the game.
Lesser athletes at QB still know when they have the pass rusher wrong-footed or in the air,
and can sidestep and get a clear pass off. Cassel seems lacking in that respect. So does Croyle. On that gadget punt play, it would’ve been easy as pie for Croyle to sidestep the rusher who’d left his feet, cocked and pulled the trigger for the easy completion. BOTH our QBs have shown serious “streetball” deficits. We saw a LOT of that with Grbac, who looked great when he could stand in the pocket and deliver the ball on rhythm to WRs who he didn’t even have to see in order to uncork a completion. Same with Bono. Both Bono and Grbac lacked pocket awareness, and I’m concerned that I’m seeing the same sort of thing in Cassel and Croyle.
I think Croyle has better “quick twitch” muscle than Cassel, but I was very disappointed with the deflection on the fake punt. And I was disappointed with how he looked in relief of Cassel, in general.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
I'm definetely not on the Croyle bandwagon either
I really don’t think we have a QB on our roster that will make us a Superbowl winner. However I don’t want us paying huge dollars to a QB for that reason, I think there is a lot of other things on this team that need to be fixed before we go after a true “franchise” QB.
To a great extent, and contrary to what most others think,
I believe that you build a team around the QB position, and it’s likely that one of the many longshot, low-dollar prospects you bring in suddenly emerges (same as RB and LB). While I greatly appreciate the best QBs, RBs and LBs, I think you multiply their effectiveness by building around them, and when your team is built, you can always add the high-dollar player at those positions, and they will have a better chance at success and longevity.
I’ve just seen too many teams try to fix their problems with QB, RB, LB before other position groups were addressed and see the great prospect struggle or go bust, because there’s always one more widebody for them to deal with than they should have to deal with on an every-down basis. And in the meantime, you just keep churning the bottom of the roster at those positions, bringing in players in whom you haven’t invested a lot of coin or credibility, hoping and expecting to develop some of them, but mainly trying to make the playing conditions as favorable as possible for those positions, so you quickly become competitive and are in solid position to ascend to the next level before being stuck with the high-dollar QB/RB/LB who can’t put in a full season, due to all the punishment.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Great article Matt
Your comments sum up my feelings on the team almost to a Tee.
I don’t know if thinks will work out for Cassel or Haley long term, but I’ve seen enough positives from both of them to think they are worth the risk for a couple more years.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I'm losing my faith with this board...
I have always thought that this blog usually had fans that had some knowledge of the game, but lately I have been like, wth…. Everyone seems to have forgotten that we all KNEW this was how it was going to be and that we were not even going to be close to .500. All I keep reading about is Cassel sucks and put in freaking Croyle, who has NEVER shown anything better than Cassel, except he can throw the deep ball. There are so many qb that can do that and a lot of them are not starters. Why? Because there is SO much more to it than that!
Cassel’s receivers had 8…. 8… 8 drops in the FIRST HALF! You realize how bad that is for the mentality of the QB. And the fact is only 1 was a difficult catch! I’m am pissed about the damn WR than I ever was at Cassel… So then he starts to probably panic a little, IT HAPPENS to the BEST QB! With the only maybe 5-6 guys who are starting quality players on offense, I really think that Cassel has done well for this situation. Only Bowe, Chambers(steal), Albert, Waters (who is beginning to lose a step and needs replaced soon when he retires), Charles (maybe), and Cassel.
Everyone praises and then jumps ship at the least sign of trouble, such bandwaggoning wasn’t very prevalant when I first started reading here… I swear that I hear anymore about Croyle and his LASER arm that did us NOTHING… He will never amount to anything more than a serviceable backup. (And maybe I will eat my words but from what I have seen and his health issues, I just don’t see it happening)
But I will agree that we should always be willing to upgrade at ANY position and I think we should draft a QB late next year. Pioli knows what he is doing but quit calling for Cassel’s head when we know with a good starting cast that he is 10-4 as a starter with over a 100 passer rating in 7 of those 14 games, having never STARTED before since HS.
Ok, now I need a beer… ;)
Hey guys, Matt Cassel isn't the problem, being one dimensional is!
by IowaChiefFan on Dec 7, 2009 1:07 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
In all fairness
The Cassel/Haley critics don’t really hop on and off the bandwagon. They just get real quiet the weeks we look good.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 7, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Which Has Been
1 of 12 weeks. The Washington and Oakland games we certainly did NOT look good. We beat awful teams by being slightly less awful in games so hard to watch even Joe Po called them unwatchable.
yah but his SEASON stats aren't based on Sunday's game only.
How do you account for the whole crappy season he’s put on here? I get disillusioned with the fact that people see what they want to see only. Cassel is not a high quality QB.
I don't think too many people were saying that
except the people who are so mad that he’s not Tom Brady now.
Seriously, people needed to temper their expectations. I remember when the schedule came out there were talks about us being playoff contenders… happy thoughts, but seriously?
If you only knew...
Thanks for this Matt
The strangest criticisms I hear of Haley and Cassel:
Haley: "He wasn’t even a good coordinator in AZ. I mean look at all that talent he had!!
Cassel: “His time in NE proves nothing. Look at all the talent he had around him. Anyone could succeed with Moss and Welker!!”
I meam..srsly…isn’t getting a bunch of talent in here part of the freaking plan? Why wouldn’t we want people who have proven they can succeed with good talent around them?
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 7, 2009 1:08 PM CST reply actions
I just don't see how anyone can make that claim.
Haley was part of a winning system, and had two pro bowl quality Wide Recievers in Arizona. Here he has other teams cast offs, and with the exception of Chambers and Bowe, has had little to work with. The fact that Chambers stepped up and played a hell of a game in the Pittsburgh game says a lot about Haley’s coaching ability.
by BetterRedThanDead on Dec 7, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
+1 I never understood that either.
With Cassel, wouldn’t you rather have someone who proves they can lead a playoff-caliber team with the right people around them, than to have an expensive 1st round draft QB who may not prove to be capable of that?
Don’t get me wrong, drafting a QB in the 1st round is not always a bad idea, but I guarantee you: the Lions, Jets & Bucs would have much rather had Cassel at the time than the risks they took in drafting a 1st round QB (doesn’t mean it won’t pay off for them, just speaking solely about the situation before the season even began).
But yeah, Cassel has shown that he can win games when you put good players around him. Isn’t that true for ANY good player? Isn’t surrounding each other with good players the entire POINT of team-building?
My long, drawn-out predictions that no one cares about, nor will bother to remember:
1. Todd Haley will still be the Chiefs Head Coach up to the 2011 season.
2. Clancy Pendergast won't make it to the 2010 season and was never intended to. Last-minute hire for a position that needed to be filled.
3. Todd Haley will not be the OC at the start of the 2010 season.
The only way.
You draft a QB in the first round, is if you KNOW he’s elite. Like the way the Colts did with Manning, Or the Falcons With Ryan, Or the Lions with Stafford. You don’t take a high profile risk that way unless you know for sure that you’re getting the real deal. First round QB’s are either elite, or Busts. There’s rarely any in between. Matt Cassell proved he could be a winner with the Patriots, and is a proven commodity. Now, when you look at this last year’s draft, The only other QB taken in the first round, (and one of only three with a starting gig to my knowledge) was Mark Sanchez. Can you honestly tell me that Mark Sanchez would be doing any better in Chiefs red then he is with the Jets? The only other QB that is starting right now, was a fairly recent starter, which is Josh Freeman, who is playing for the Bucs. he’s the only one that I feel might have done better than Cassell right now, but, there was no way of knowing that. We had a choice between a proven commodity and taking a shot in the dark. Would any of the QB’s drafted in the NFL draft this year be any better than Cassell? Doubtful. A whole team is what makes a QB look good. I’d say with 8 drops in the first half alone, The Wide Recievers did a pretty good job of making Matt Cassell look bad.
by BetterRedThanDead on Dec 7, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly, the same could be said of Favre
When his teams in GB didn’t have much talent around him, they didn’t win many games. Now he’s in MN with tons of talent on both sides of the ball, and he’s “back to his old form”. All QBs need talent around them.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Well Said
I agree that this team needs continuity. I think one full offseason together, upgrading Todd Haley’s supporting cast and actually trying to have an OC I think this team will make much larger strides next season.
Cassel yes, Haley no
Sorry I’ve been a Chief’s fan for a long time. I’ve seem them come and go. One year or three, Haley isn’t a HC just like Gunther wasn’t. So tune in three years from when we go thru this once again. Cassel with a decent cast COULD make a decent QB.
NO
the goal of this organization should be to compete in the playoffs. i see no way that the chiefs will ever reach that level with cassel at the helm.
Against the best, a caretaker isn't enough.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
What about the faith that teams put into guys like Jamarcus Russel,Kyle Boller,Ryan Leaf,Tim Couch,Joey Harrington, Heath Schuler, and so on. Those qbs never rewarded their franchises for their patience. For every Manning and Green there have been many qbs that never progress. How long to give Cassel just because of his contract and trading a 2nd for him, who knows? Just hope we dont wait too long because as of now the guy has lots to prove. I say Pioli needs to get him some real help at wr ,ol, and coaching and hope he proves next year.
by kc2win on Dec 7, 2009 1:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The difference between Cassel and the guys you listed
Is that Cassel has proven he can win with talent around him. Those players never did.
Contracts aren't guaranteed in the NFL, he's not going to be getting all $64 million for 6 years if he truly is "awful"
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
I think there's something like 3 years guaranteed money, amounting to 20-some million.
All in all, probably a good move, to have a benchmark for decent QB play and toughness, while the other pieces are put into place. And if NE hadn’t built the team fairly well before Brady supplanted Bledsoe, Brady’s relative immodbility would be a SERIOUS drawback.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
AND,
dont’ forget he was guaranteed 14 or 15 mill this year ALONE if they didnt’ give him a new deal… and if he finishes the season strong, he could have demanded a bigger deal / franchise tag… OR left in FA…
the contract is a good one.
the QB is a good one, but has had 2 bad games in a row
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
come now
The difference between the Chiefs roster and the Patriots roster is night and day.
I don’t think that is a fair assessment. New England carried him…not the other way around.
Brady and Cassel have similar stats this season
Not saying one is the other but Brady will have a hard time putting up the 11 wins Cassel did with the NE roster.
That being said
NE defense this year is not what it’s been in previous years. Plus we stole their secret weapon on Offense in Mike Vrabel.
I'm not sure
I would compare this season to last season. Schedule differences, player differences, scheme differences, it’s too difficult to make an apples to apples comparison.
Brady has put up some quality numbers this year. But I wouldn’t even compare those to Cassel’s while Cassel was the starter since Brady was the starter for years before Cassel got the impromtu start last season.
Cassel eventually got chemistry with the Patriots last season and they were able to win. A lot of their wins last season were ugly and close too (not very many lop-sided wins or big point production.)
My point was never that Cassel will be the next Tom Brady..I don’t believe that would ever happen simply because of Cassel’s age and history in the league. What I do believe is that Cassel needs a good team to be successful..he can’t/won’t be successful on a struggling team that can’t help carry him from time to time.
Cassel’s tenure will not be a booming one. This team is too far removed from the talent pool to believe that we will be consistenly competitive next season. In 2011 if the right moves are made next season..Cassel could have a decent team..but I’m not convinced that we wait two more years to see if Cassel at age 30 is going to lead this team.
Talent around him?
Cassell couldn’t hit an open WR if he was 2 feet away, he makes bad throws constantly, and even when he does make a good throw, it is too late. Any QB in the league can make a pass in garbage time, and Matt Cassell is just that…garbage.
My Take On Matt Cassell
When Trent Green was Tr-int Green his first season you saw accuracy but a bunch of terrible receivers that couldnt get to the window TG was throwing to and thus the other team picked off Trent’s accurate passes. Ask yourself this question. How many times have you watched a Matty C pass this year and have absolutely no idea who he was intending to throw to?
Interceptions are sometimes problems of too much accuracy and bad timing with receivers ala Trent Green (year 1). Cassell is so wild with his throws no one is getting their hands on them.
Matty C has an incurable problem of a bad deep ball and scatter shot throws on intermediate passes. That can’t be fixed. It just can’t.
I have only asked for improvement. I've seen that from Haley.
I don’t want to have to start over again if he can progress like he is doing currently. Cassel isn’t improving. Read the front page article about Cassel setting his all time low record.
so that’s not improvement is it? If your stats over the past two weeks have slipped then that’s not improvement. That’s the opposite of improvement. That’s getting worse. Right?
By definition that’s getting worse not better. So his stats should be getting better now that he is surrounded by more talent.
Chambers and Charles aren’t talented? yes they are. So the more reps he gets and the more talent he has around him and the more time he has to pass ( he’s had quite a bit more time lately and we all know that) the worse his stats get??
That doesn’t even register?? Who cares?? What about that? Why? Why isn’t he getting better?
Haley’s doing a fine job now. Cassel is getting worse. Check the stats. I’m not talking about opinion, I’m talking strictly by the facts, the proof, i.e. the stats.
You're not accounting for strength-of-schedule.
I see the slippage the last two weeks as direct consequence of the makeup and schemes of the Bolts and Donkeys. Give the opposition some credit.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
agreed...
KC hit some buzzsaws the last 2 weeks for sure
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I just don’t understand how Cassel is getting worse as the ol and running game have improved. Furthermore this far into the season how can he and the recievers look like they have never played football before. Something is not right. Sucks too because I was excited to get Cassel and now I don’t know what his future is.
by kc2win on Dec 7, 2009 2:14 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
rec'd kc2win
that’s the point. We had all the excuse makers telling us that once he got some talent and if he had more time to pass, and if he had a little more time to learn the system then
WE WOULD SEE!!!
Well. Now what? He’s had 12 weeks of OJT. He’s got a legitimate running game at his disposal and he has Chambers. So he has all the things that the soothsayers swore was ALL he needed. Well he’s got it and his numbers are getting worse not better.
I think some of you are confusing us saying Cassel is a wash and shouldn’t be a QB in the NFL with what we are actually saying.
We are saying he should be showing significant IMPROVEMENT at this point in the season with all his new toys and his time he’s had to get acclamated here.
You can’t just discount that 100% can you? We should at least be noticing that. How could you not? Turn on the TV and find a sports channel. Listen to what they say about us.
they even break down our weaknesses and circle guys who botched assignments and such. Baldi put us on the big screen and analyzed our team for us form a former Pro Footballer’s point of view. And the result is the same :WE SUCK!! And Cassel is not talented enough to save this team. He needs a team like NE or the Saints. He needs to be buried in Pro Bowlers. We can’t wait for that here in KC.
I agree with you
if we’re seeing this in the first few weeks of next season. I refuse to give up on the first season of this. There is more to an entire offseason of getting familiar with the system than people will give credit. Cassel is not a future Hall of Famer in my eyes, but some of the best went through the same things before their teams became powerhouses. You can go down the line from Manning, Aikman, Elway, Simms, Montana, it just goes on and on.
I would much rather be talking about getting rid of Pendergast as DC than pulling the plug on the head coach and quarterback.
oline has improved because of charles
they don’t have to hold thier blocks as long.. which makes them look better. and matt cassel is the best qb on the team at this point. its the team not cassel. he’s done an ok job with a bad team and a good job with a good team do the math were definatly not the patriots not even close. look at all the good qbs in the league they all have good supporting casts
either way the line is improved...doesn't matter why
he still screws up way too much and even with an improved line.
+1
bad reads, worse throws……he needs top-shelf talent all around him to cover his ass, talent that the Hunts are either too cheap to get, or, if offers are made, those players don’t want to come here………locker room leadership isn’t enough………if we are stuck with this 2nd rate QB for 6 years, Pioli better strike gold on this next draft, and he better pull off some trades or FA acquisitions to prop this kid up. He can be decent with lots of talent around him, but I’m afraid the Hunts may be too cheap to get it
Nice points, 19.
And even a modest up-tick in the running game has given Cassel a LOT more off the play-fake.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
The issue has reverted to QB and WR questions.
And expect this sort of thing to continue as ALL position groups slowly ratchet upward and slip downward. Easiest thing to do is get too excited about any of the wins or too disappointed with any of the losses. Just keep your eye as unbiased as possible and judge each performance as objectively as possible.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
My questions
Was always why bring in a rookie hc to a situation like this? Why wasn’t gailey the hc until Haley learned the ropes or why didn’t pioli hire a proven hc that can teach these guys something? AND why did we get such an inexperienced qb to lead our offense? One season of football…that’s it! How about a veteran with a young guy learning the system behind him. We are a product of Pioli’s decisions. I am not saying pioli is at total fault but he hired Haley he traded for cassel he drafted our draft he signed the free agents he traded away pollard…..
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Dec 7, 2009 3:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions
def. a multitude of questionable decisions
How do you make a bad team good again? Oh, well you hire a bunch of guys who have never really done this before, and hopefully by the time the rookie GM & HC begin to hit their stride in a couple of years, the inexperienced, marginally talented QB will too, and the salary cap friendly, low talent football team will have REALLY good chemistry, and knowledge of the “schemes”, and meanwhile, we can pay 2 or 3 people insane amounts of cash, peanuts to the rest, as the rest are expendable, and pocket the money that’s left to spend on frivolous cosmetic facility improvements………at least that’s what seems like is going on to me…
We'll see how the cap is managed for the future.
Tough call to make, at this point. Could easily have bid high for Seymour or Ellis against Alice. But would that have been the best thing for the development of the d-line long-term? Not sure. It’s like letting a salesman con you into spending an extra thousand bucks, and then believing him when he says “See? Right there you saved 50 dollars!”
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
I'm fine with rookie HC.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
Makes sense to me Reed.
I think Cassel sucks and I don’t really see how he is going to improve. Let’s be realistic here, does anybody actually think we will EVER have a similar talent level on this team that NE had last year? I have been a Chiefs fan for 20 years and we have NEVER had a roster that was loaded like that. It will simply never happen. Not until AFTER we have won a Super Bowl. The only reason the Pats have a roster like that is because they were able to attract the top tier free agents for moderate prices because they are well known as a winning organization.
If we want to win in the next couple of years, we will HAVE to get a QB that is able to carry the team on his shoulders because it will take many, many years to put together a stellar defense and an O-line that is dominant as well as a great running attack. Cassel is NOT capable of putting a game on his shoulders and winning it like the great QBs do and that my friends is exactly what we need him to do. I hate to say it but, I really think the only we are going to find that guy is by drafting him in the first 2 rounds. If we try to draft him in the mid-late rounds it’s just a gamble and every gamble like that can set an organization back for years.
I disagree with investing too much in the one QB to save your team.
That’s what New Orleans did with Archie Manning. And they sucked for decades with that attitude, despite having a QB who could take a whole team on his shoulders. Cassel’s reasonably affordable, and they’re still in good position to upgrade multiple positions in an affordable way.
Should’ve protected Cassel more, imo, and maybe we’re seeing signs that the awful season is starting to break his spirit and his body. That’s the risk they took, and I didn’t much like it.
I’m exactly the opposite of you, 1970. I believe in setting the table for QB, before breaking the bank on QB. And if your system building moves are solid, you’ll be surprised at the 3rd-, 4th- and 5th-round picks that can look good playing for you.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
And NE built mostly thru the draft to get things rolling.
I think the organization has a MUCH better feel for what they have and what they want to do in 2010. They were a team lacking not only starters but also lacking depth. At worst, they go into next offseason feeling pretty good about depth, able to continue building depth, plus add one or three blue-chippers, maybe more, since there’re likely to be blue-chip C/G at VERY reasonable rates.
"Ow! You knocked my tooth out!!"
"Yeah? Well, Colt makes a heavy firearm. That's a fact."
valid point, 110
I just hope that they don’t whiff on this UBER-important upcoming draft, and get some FA’s that aren’t the “marquee names”, but the "marquee players that pioli speaks of…..also, I do see how they’re building depth, I just hope that we can draft & develop a majority of players better now than we have for the past 15 or so years……also not sparing any expense on on an FA or 2 that can take this team to the next level
Sticking with HALEY AND CASSSELL
Couldn’t agree more. The one thing this organization can’t become is the Lions, Browns, and Raiders. Where we’re changing coaches and quarterbacks every season. That’s how you become a losing organization. This is a rebuild if we fire Haley we’ll be rebuilding again. I don’t have a problem with the Chiefs giving Cassell long term contract no different than if we would have drafted a guy in the 1st round and payed him a bunch of money. The only difference is Cassell has shown what he can do with good talent around him whereas a rookie we’ would have to hope he will do well with good talent. Totally agree with this article.
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