Position Values?

by onthereg on Dec 27, 2009 9:58 PM CST

No this is not another mock draft BUT I did some thinking on what the most valuable positions are to winning a super bowl.

1. QB - like it or not we have Cassel and his contract (i think he will be better next year)

2. Pass Rusher - can be OLB or DE and we have ZERO other than Hali

3. LT - Albert is still young and I am not sure even Okung is better. This draft is horrible for LT in my opinion.

Then what? I want to know what everyone thinks. DT/NT? FS? RB? WR? MLB?

It is different for every team i know but i look at Ed Reed and Polamalu and even Bob Sanders and his impact and I think a dominant Safety might be the most valuable player on the entire Defense well other than pass rusher.

I read that only one safety has been picked top 5 and that shocked me. The only explanation i can see is that the game has evolved so much that the value of a safety is now much higher.

So yeah after all that I want Berry even if we pick 3rd.

Like i said I am really curious what everyone else thinks. Not just on what we need but overall what any great team needs.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Tweet Comment 51 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

NT first

Safety next

I also think we should pass on the LT ths year, pick up a G maybe 2nd or 3rd round

i think we are OK at WR but would like to pick up Tate in the 2nd round as KR/WR

followed by a C (also second round)

ILB and RB somewhere in the later rounds

I’m hoping NT gets solved in FA but we shall see

by KCCheeze on Dec 27, 2009 10:11 PM CST reply actions

Gotta agree on the need for better NT, interior D-line

Have to be able to stop the opposition from running up huge #’s on the ground. Even today Cincy got going at the start of the 2nd half with a long Benson run.

Have to disagree re WR’s: KC has more drops than just about anyone, very little speed to spread the field, minimal YAC. Every team in the division has a better corp of WR’s than the Chiefs, even Oakland isn’t appreciably worse with Murphy et al.

by Wheatboy74 on Dec 27, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions

There is NO DOUBT.

3rd and 1. 4th and 1. Your QB can sneak it ahead every time. The top half of the league will get 2 or 3 yards every time. The KC front is outmanned at the point of attack. That’s the number one fundamental weakness of this team.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Dec 27, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions

Number one, except for the same exact problem on the other side of the ball.

by hmills110 on Dec 27, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions

Starting with nothing O or D lets build a roster from scratch. How I would build Expansion roster.

The most important position to the least. With 3/4 Defense. Then will add the support players who are very important. #2 RB, #3 and 4 WR/KR/PR, K, P, #2 and 3 TE, #3 and 4 CB. swing O-Lineman. Swing DE, #2 NT, swing OLB, Swing ILB,

1. LT have to be able to protect most important investment. Albert solid could find better.

2. C have to have a Line Captain., Our #1 NEED

3. QB You have got to Have your overall Leader, We have Cassel

4. NT Needs to be the leader on D your monster in the middle., Our #2 Need

5. DE the front three makes everything else easier in the 3/4, We have Jackson

6. DE again the importance of the front three on D, We have Dorsey

7. RT without a good front it does not matter who your playmakers are. O’Call would like upgrade with more athleticism.

8. RB You must have a very skilled runner. We have Charles

9. Shutdown CB. Must be able to slow teams #1 WRs down. we have Flowers

10. ILB must have a LB who can take on blockers, who is fast enough to cover sideline to sideline. Who also has good pass defending skills enough to cover #1 TEs and slot WRs. Who can also rush the passer effectivly. This is a ? for us as the NT helps this position.

11. OLB must have explosive Pass Rush ability and be able to read and react to screens and other miss direction plays. Hali is a good option here needs to improve in second phase.

12. WR have to have a WR who can change the game. Bowe is decent option.

13. SS must have playmaking ability against both the run and the pass. NEEDED

14. WR #2 need another playmaking WR to keep the #1 from being doubled all day. Needed as Chambers has proven he is no good in jump ball situation and is better suited to #3 Wr position.

15. OLB match the other side. Needed. Vrabel or Studebaker maybe adequate.

16. TE has to be a good blocker, enough speed to stretch LBs and make S help with pass coverage. Needed although Pope has been getting better, Cottam injury ?

17. #2 CB must have comparable ability to #1 CB. I like Carr here reminds me of Hasty.

18. LG a good Run Blocker and Decent pass protector with athletic ability to pull. Waters ? on ability to pull anymore.

19. RG repeat whats needed on Left side. Needed

20. ILB Good run defender with ability to take on blockers and rush the passer. Needed Williams is decent here but has trouble taking on Blockers. Still think DJ has all the physical tools to be very good player in this spot.

21. FS has to be an excellent playmaker in coverage with ability to make sure tackle. Brown ?

22. FB Have to have someone with good technique and willngness to throw their body around can make or break a running game in standard sets. Cox ?

Now for the rest of the key players.

23. #3 WR playmaker with HANDS who can stretch the field and creat miss matches. Needed

24. #2 RB has to have almost the same ability as your #1. could use a fast footed short yardage player to spell Charles or someone wiht similar skill set. Needed

25. #2 TE same here this player needs almost the same tools to work with as your #1 but must be strong in Run Blocking. Pope fits best here.

26. #3 CB must have ability to cover #1 quality WRs and be able to tackle. ? Daniels has been playing good lately.

27. K, Have to be able to get points when needed, Succop GREAT

28. #4 WR a good spped position and the perfect spot for a KR/PR to be. Needed

29. O-Line swing player someone who can step in at any O-Line position and be effective, I really like Wade Smith in this role.

30. #2 NT This position requires alot of size and strength generally need 2 players to split playing time. Edwards ?/ I think we need to fill this position aswell.

31. DE swing player, Probably a good pass rusher to come in as Your #1/#2 DE are primarily run stoppers. Gillberry/ Magee are good options here.

32. OLB Swing player someone who can spell at either OLB position. I like Vrabel for this spot or Studebaker works good here.

33. ILB Swing player this is where Mays fits best.

34. P, When you need to punt you have to be able to do it effectivly, Can’t get much better than Collquit here.

35. Dime CB must have good coverage skills. Daniels or Morgan or someone on the roster already could fill this post. mybe Washington improves over off season/training.

36. #3 TE a good blocker who can catch the ball if asked to on the goal line. O’Connell/ ?

37. Quarter CB/S could be either I really like the idea of bringing in 2 Safeties and this be Browns spot next year, McGraw has looked good when put in this position aswell.

The rest of the game day roster is for good ST players and depth. must have one more O-Line active and One more LB but will probably have mor LBs active because they tend to make the best ST players.

That is how I rank a 3/4 defensive teams importance per position from top to bottom.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 28, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

My way of thinking has us needing about 13 players

From most important to Least

1 A starting Center

2 Starting NT

3 Starting ILB

4 Starting SS

5 #2 WR

6 Starting OLB

7 Starting TE

8 Starting RG

9 Starting FS

10 #2 RB

11 #4 WR might have in house.

12. #2 NT Edwards might fit here next season.

13. #3 TE may have options here.

RT, LG, and #3 WR are places we could bring players in at aswell. Depending on Waters, O’Call confidence in him as starter, and Chambers wether or not we re-sign him.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 28, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions

We have by far the most needs of any team in the NFL with that and our record.

I think Haley has done a fairly decent job this season.

It looks like we can fill Center, SS, OLB, RG, FS, #2 RB, #2 NT, #2/#4 WR, and one more spot in the draft.

We NEED, almost must get a NT, ILB, #2 WR, TE, in Free Agency if we want to have a chance next season.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 28, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions

agree about most of your "needs"

but, I disagree with this statement: "We have by far the most needs of any team in the NFL with that and our record. "

Detroit, St Louis, Tampa, Cleveland, Oakland and others ALL have big needs, just like KC

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Dec 28, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions

OK I have not dug into their rosters near asmuch as ours

So you could be right on that front.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 28, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

YES

we need an NT who can really tie up the interior O Linemen. I also agree that a OG should be a high priority.

by aFan4Life on Dec 28, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions

Great teams are built starting at the ball and working out

Ed Reed is only dominant because of Ray Lewis, Ray Lewis is only dominant because of Ngata.

"Readin's don't never not dun nuthin' for not nobody!" ---Early Cuyler

by averagegatsby on Dec 27, 2009 10:11 PM CST reply actions

where was Ngata the first 10 years of Lewis' career?

I know Ray Ray’s had some good people in front of him, but talent is talent. You can’t tell me any ol person would produce the way he has in his career with the same people around them

by TigerPride on Dec 27, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions

Before Ngata there was Siragusa

"Readin's don't never not dun nuthin' for not nobody!" ---Early Cuyler

by averagegatsby on Dec 27, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions

Ray Lewis was great

and he’s still good but having these guys in front makes a big difference:

LDT Sam Adams
RDT Tony Siragusa
NT Kelly Gregg
LDT Ma’ake Kemoeatu

Those are the guys who played NT/DT in front of Lewis and all of them were very good at keeping the OL off of Ray Lewis.

by aFan4Life on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions

And no not any ol person would produce the wasy he has

but you can’t honestly think Ray Lewis would be as productive if he didn’t have good D-Lineman taking on blockers.

"Readin's don't never not dun nuthin' for not nobody!" ---Early Cuyler

by averagegatsby on Dec 27, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions

that's true

it is a lot easier when there are good lineman in front of linebackers, that’s obvious. But talented players are talented players, plain and simple. Yeah Siragusa was in front of him before Ngata, but Lewis is special and so is Reed.

by TigerPride on Dec 27, 2009 11:33 PM CST up reply actions

And from 2002 to 2006, folks were talkin' like Ray-Ray just wasn't the same player, anymore

Obviously on the decline. Being compared to Dick Butkus, when HE hit the wall.

Suddenly, in 2006, Ray-Ray nets some highlight sacks and TFLs, and it’s like he’s been re-born. 2002-2005: The “between tackles” period.

by hmills110 on Dec 27, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions

Your missing the point...

they are very VERY good players that were able to be Special because of their supporting cast. Who’s to say that if London Fletcher and Ray Lewis traded places that we wouldn’t be saying the same thing about Fletcher. Im not saying that Lewis and Reed aren’t special, but its partially to the supporting cast… Its like how Larry was special when he had the best offensive line in football.

"Readin's don't never not dun nuthin' for not nobody!" ---Early Cuyler

by averagegatsby on Dec 28, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions

Yup. And if you want to pursue DIAMONDS at ILB, you set the table for 'em and they're the cherry on top.

You don’t get a Cadillac at LB until you have monster trucks in the trenches. And then, like as not, you discover heretofore unsuspected WOW factor in the LBs you already have.

Please don’t let’s turn this into a critique of Mays & Co. Been there.

by hmills110 on Dec 28, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions

Of course that doesn't help the way that Derrick Johnson over runs plays.

"Readin's don't never not dun nuthin' for not nobody!" ---Early Cuyler

by averagegatsby on Dec 28, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions

Oh c'mon. I used the magic word 'n' EVERYthing!

Heh. I’ve awarded numerous demerits to the LB corps at various times. But I have a firm sense that such demerits, even when correctly assessed, are often as much a product of poor situation as poor player. Seen other LB/RB/QBs miraculously learn how to play with the timely addition of the right lineman or linemen in front of them.

by hmills110 on Dec 28, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions

agreed with you 100%, so hopefully Chiefs drafts these 3 key positions

by 72chiefs on Dec 28, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions

Away from the dead horse for a second.

1) Id like to see a new LT and move Albert inside but would rather see us use a 2nd rounder getting it. Okung will be the next spread offense OT to fail so I’d rather see a Ciron Black or a Bulaga if they fall or someone else projected a bit lower. Remember Oher ended up being the best tackle out of last years draft and he was almost 2nd round.

2) Spend our later second or a third rounder(depending on where he ends up being scouted) on Gamecocks Eric Norwood. He doesn’t get a ton of attention but he’s a real player and will make a really good NFL player. Opposite Hali in the longterm he would make one hell of an option and rotating in next will give him the development he needs.

3) NT: Not drafted because we’ve seen how long it takes DL to develop and honestly I dont know who has the patience anymore to go through that again. Ryan Pickett to me is the best option considering I can’t see GB paying top dollar for two NT with them grooming Raji for that spot.

4) ILB needs more then draft help we need a FA brought in there. No more demorrio or Mays please have them as depth. I’d love to trade down in round one(although more and more unlikely the higher we pick) and grab a guy like McClain a little bit later.

5) Alot of people like Golden Tate around here in the second round and he would be good value in that round as a WR with explosive play ability. Marshawn Gilyard from Cinci would be another great even later pick as he can be a PR or KR as well.

Staying away from the Berry/Suh debate because honestly I dont think either are worth it whether it be for system reasons or whatever other reasons.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Dec 27, 2009 10:13 PM CST reply actions

for the most part

i think positional values are way overrated

I would never draft a punter, kicker, long snapper, special teams gunner and a couple of other positions in the first round.

Other than that, all bets are off. You gotta take the best player available at a position of need for your team.

KC NEEDS Safety, NT, ILB, OLB, WR, C, G, RB all to varying degrees.

Basically, if ANY of these positions happen to also be the highest rated player still available when KC picks, they should TAKE em.

5 years from now, nobody will be saying that a “safety isn’t worth a top 5 pick” IF Berry is a pro bowler on a great defense.

5 years from now, nobody will be saying that an ILB isn’t worth a top 5 pick IF McClain goes to KC and becomes the next Urlacher or Ray Lewis

5 years from now, nobody will be saying that a CB isn’t worth a top 5 pick IF Haden comes to KC and is the next Champ Bailey

people put WAY too much stock in where someone “should be drafted”
take the top player on your board that can help make you a better team. period.

by stagdsp on Dec 27, 2009 10:32 PM CST reply actions 3 recs

Yup. If the guy is among the very best in the league at what he does, you got value.

With the special teams exceptions.

by hmills110 on Dec 27, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions

Or the opposite also known as the "Al Davis Theorum"

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Dec 27, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions

I would take a kicker first overall

if he could mak 90 percent of his kicks at 80 yards…..

by callmesir on Dec 27, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions

thank you Al Davis :)

by stagdsp on Dec 28, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions

We'd basically be assured of points

any time we had the ball… Although it would take our best player out of the game… Dustin colquitt….

by callmesir on Dec 28, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

that guy is an instant threat

at the freaking 32 yard line. Our 32 yard line.

Holy crap.

by g00dn1ghtm4r3 on Dec 28, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

Great point

and what i was going for especially Haden and McClain.

Both are going to be stars and if we end up picking either one I will be happy…CB is not a huge need i now but like you said if he turns into the next Champ nobody will care if Carr is a our nickel.

by onthereg on Dec 28, 2009 7:29 AM CST up reply actions

Thank you Stags

You take the combination of what you need and who’s the best at that position. The people who speak on when you should pick and when you should pick them are thinking in idealistic terms that never exist during the draft. I’ve been arguing this point and I thought it was falling on deaf ears……..Green’d

by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 28, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

That

is something that really pisses me off. Why does it matter what draft experts think someone should be drafted? Its annoying when people say that safties dont go top five, because you draft who you need not who should go in the top five.

swish

by swish7209 on Dec 27, 2009 10:58 PM CST reply actions

I think part of it is the economics

You only have so much $$$ to spend on salaries. You might get some great All-Pro players as DB’s, but if you spend $40 million a year on your starting safeties and cornerbacks, you will likely have a hard time paying anything competitive for the defensive linemen or LB’s, and end up losing your good players from those units because you don’t have enough money invested in those positions. Final result is that your overall defense isn’t very good because one or another unit is extremely weak.

by Wheatboy74 on Dec 27, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

I think safeties are the least payed players on defense than any other position. Berry would honestly be more attractable in my eyes because he wouldn’t net the kind of money a QB, defensive or offensive lineman would.

by I_Bleed_Red. on Dec 28, 2009 2:45 AM CST up reply actions

Berry will still get a huge paycheck

If he’s the third, fourth or fifth pick, he’s still gonna attract BIG money, just based on the draft slot.

by Wheatboy74 on Dec 28, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, he would.

But I’d rather be stuck makin’ poor man’s choices at LB than stuck makin’ poor man’s choices at DB. I think your big money oughta go to the DL and CB position groups on the D side. Good LBs can have a solid role within a team concept. But if all you have in the secondary is a team concept (can only run zone), there’s only so much you can do to disguise your intentions.

The attraction of an Eric Berry is he’s an elite defensive back, one of the best to come out in years. This is Charles Woodson/Champ Bailey territory we’re talkin’, here. Guys who allow you to roll your whole defense to the other side of the field. Guys who make all your LBs a step quicker and give your pass rush extra time to strike home. Trenches first and foremost, followed by DB.

by hmills110 on Dec 28, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

Safety First and Foremost

I think we’ve been burned enough this year and enough missed tackles by safties cough Mike Brown to realize we need a talented safety to step up and help lead this defense. NT can be filled in FA solid enough to hold for a year or 2 max. Next would be LB, specifically a talented PURE pass rushing artist. Then maybe we can use WR’s that can catch the ball as good as I can catch a cold this year, which is dam often. Then we can draft RB in later rounds for depth because we have our franchise RB for the next (hopefully) near decade. Atleast for 8 years when he hits 30.

"Charles In Charge"

"Defense Wins Championships"

by KC Nate on Dec 28, 2009 3:21 AM CST reply actions

Not just on what we need but overall what any great team needs.

What any team aspiring to greatness needs?

Start with the coaching staff. We need a solid D-coordinator before free agency opens. Maybe an OC if one can be found to work with Haley. The coaches need to be able to game plan for an opponent and to make adjustments when that plan is failing, not just half-time adjustments but in game changes.

The front office has to understand the scheme used on both sides of the ball and search out players to fit into the scheme. We have seen improvement on the O-line as the season progressed. It isn’t there yet but it is better than september. That effort needs applied to the entire team.

If KC doesn’t make some moves before the draft then 2010 will be a very long season too.

Position needs are months away. There are improvements that can be made sooner.

by Ribs59 on Dec 28, 2009 7:29 AM CST reply actions