Kansas City Chiefs Defense: Who Stays? Who's Gone? Who's on the Bubble for 2010?
As promised, this week I'm going to focus on the Chiefs' defense. Who goes? Who stays? Who's on the bubble?
Before I do that, I'm going to make some small adjustments to my prior analysis on the Chiefs' offense. First, Brad Cottam. I don't know where he's been for two years, but he has stepped it up at just the right time. The fact that Cottam has played third-fiddle to the stone hands twins, Sean Ryan and Jake O'Connell, for most of the season is appalling and it makes me seriously question Haley's ability to evaluate talent. Second, Dwayne Bowe. Of all the players on this roster, he's the one that worries me the most. I don't lose sleep over scrubs playing like scrubs. I lose sleep over talented players like Bowe who you want to keep on your roster long-term, but who may always be a liability at the wrong times. You can't afford to part ways with Bowe on a roster this shallow, but the question you have to ask is: on a key third down in a playoff game three years from now, how comfortable do you feel about any pass that goes Bowe's way?
Anyway, I digress. Let's start talking some defense.
Defensive End:
I wanted to start here because it's a really easy position to evaluate. I would be shocked if the Chiefs made a big play for a 5-Technique DE. The Chiefs have a lot of money and a lot of draft value invested in Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson, and with Wallace Gilberry and Alex Magee on the roster, they're also pretty deep at the position. Regardless of your opinion on how good any of these guys are, this front office is smart enough to know that the fan base would absolutely revolt if they used a lot of resources to add yet another 5-technique. That rules out Ndamukong Suh. That rules out any DT with any value in free agency or the draft. Quite honestly, unless there is a 5-technique available that is an absolute highway robbery steal in the later rounds, I would be shocked if they drafted anybody at this position. As for who the Chiefs already have, Dorsey has improved by leaps and bounds and we saw on Sunday how ineffective the Chiefs are on run defense without him. Tyson Jackson is starting to play a little bit better. He's nowhere near where he needs to be, but you can't judge a guy like him until his second or third season. Magee has the potential to be a decent depth DE, but his play on Sunday really highlights how much further he needs to go. Gilberry is a guy you'd like to keep on the roster, but his role will likely be limited to third down or rotational depth situations.
- Stays: Dorsey, Jackson, Gilberry, Magee
- Pick-up: Nobody
Defensive Tackle:
Ron Edwards stinks. That's all you need to know about what the Chiefs have. And Edwards' stink-ti-tude is affecting everyone around him. Edwards doesn't drive blockers back into the pocket. He doesn't occupy that many blockers. He's just sort of... there. It affects the Linebackers because Edwards is letting blockers get to the second level and he's not sealing the middle as well as he should. It affects the pass rushers because when an edge rusher like Tamba Hali gets to the quarterback off the edge, the quarterback can easily and comfortably slide into an enormous pocket. Edwards would be okay as a backup, quality depth option, but the Chiefs need to make a major move for a Nose Tackle this offseason. That's no reason to panic. Some people will have you believe that finding a quality Nose Tackle is as tough as finding a franchise Quarterback. It's not. If it was such an impossible position to find, you'd see 3-4 teams using top 10 picks and showering them with expensive contracts. That's not the case. Assuming that the CBA doesn't fall through, you might see a good Nose Tackle like Vince Wilfork hit the market. You might also see a 4-3 DT castoff who might be better suited for a 3-4 NT position. More likely than not, we'll probably be using a pick anywhere between the 2nd and 4th rounds to bring in either a starter or quality depth at the position. I'm not saying that any of these will be easy. However, I do believe that if the Chiefs are very tight in their evaluations both on the Pro Personnel side and on the college scouting side, the Chiefs could easily find a replacement. The good news is that they can't do a whole lot worse than Edwards.
But I'll tell you what, if Dorsey continues to improve a little, Jackson improves a lot and plays to his potential, and the Chiefs find a legit Nose Tackle, opposing running backs are going to have a really, really difficult time running past this wall of defenders.
- On the bubble: Ron Edwards
- Pick-up: A starter (this is non-negotiable)--probably in rounds 2-4 or through Free Agency
Outside Linebacker:
This is a position I really struggle with because there's a part of me that really likes Tamba Hali and there's another part of me that believes he'll never really be the kind of elite OLB you want in a 3-4 Defense. I do think he's a strong force as a pass rusher. I just worry that he can't cover or stop the run as effectively as you would hope for in a 3-4 OLB. On the other side, Vrabel needs to be replaced. I still like him as a backup and a leader, but the Chiefs need to start focusing on giving a younger, longer-term OLB much more quality reps. I'm not sure if his replacement will be or should be Andy Studebaker. I was really impressed with the way Studebaker played several weeks ago. From a pass rushing standpoint, he has a long way to go, and I think his two INTs were more a reflection of being in the right place at the right time. But what I liked about him was the way he stood his ground against the run.
I realize that this analysis didn't really say much of anything about anything. I would say this is a position where you just play with the cards you're dealt. If you have a can't-miss player in the Draft, then you take him. If you can get a strong option in Free Agency, then overpay him. But this isn't necessarily a position to lose sleep over because the other thing to keep in mind is that the overall play of all the OLBs will improve as the big uglies up front start to get better at their jobs.
- Stays: Tamba Hali (#1 or #2?), Andy Studebaker (#2)
- On the Bubble: Mike Vrabel (#2 or #3)
- Bring in: A strong option without reaching
Inside Linebacker:
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I think that Inside Linebacker is one of the least important positions in a 3-4 Defense. They're role players more than anything else. Kendrell Bell was a star in a 3-4 because his only assignment was to attack, attack, attack. Don't think. Just attack. You also have other ILBs who are more coverage specialists. My feeling has always been that if you have an outstanding defensive line, you won't need your ILBs nearly as much in run support. If you have an outstanding secondary, particularly at the Safety position, you don't need to become overly reliant on the coverage backer. A great ILB is more a luxury than a necessity. I'm not a big fan of any of the Chiefs' ILB options. Demorrio Williams is adequate, DJ is too much of a freelancer, Mays is quality depth but mostly unspectacular, and Belcher has decent upside but has a long way to go. This is one of those positions where the strategy is to replace these guys eventually within the next 2-3 years. However, I would not make any concerted effort to do so immediately.
- Keep: Begrudgingly keep as many as you can
- Pick-up: A later draft pick without reaching. A whole flurry of undrafted rookies. Or a strong free agent option (like most positions, it's okay for the Chiefs to overpay)
Cornerback:
So, finally a position the Chiefs can build off of. I have always liked Brandon Flowers. I've been very pleasantly surprised with Brandon Carr's progress this season. These two guys make a really solid 1-2 punch. At some point, the Chiefs need to start adding extra bodies for nickel packages as well as for quality depth. I'm not confident any of those guys are currently on the roster. The Chiefs' coaching staff seems to be transitioning Leggett to Safety. Donald Washington is extremely raw, but so far mostly unimpressive. You probably wouldn't draft a Nickel Back early in the draft, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chiefs pretty aggressively pursue some options toward the middle of the draft and/or through free agency.
- Keep: All CBs
- Pick-up: Later round or Free Agent Nickel Back (no need to break the bank)
Safety:
I still believe that it is a huge asset for a 3-4 defense to have a playmaker at the Safety position. That player is not currently on the Chiefs' roster. I know Todd Haley really likes Mike Brown and while I certainly think he's improved throughout the season, he just doesn't have the playmaking ability he used to. In the passing game, I rarely see him smell out plays. He always seems to get there a few steps too late. John McGraw is a great depth guy and someone you want to keep on your roster for special teams purposes, but he's not a guy you want as your long-term starter. Jarrad Page has been by far the biggest disappointment on defense, in my eyes. I've been very unimpressed with his closing speed, which is scary for a Safety whose strength is supposed to be his coverage ability. And oh, by the way, I have no idea if Dajuan Morgan is the answer in KC or not, but I wish the Chiefs' coaching staff would make a little more effort to find out. New flash: the Chiefs aren't making the playoffs this season. Give the young kids a chance to play (that goes for Studebaker too). At least Morgan's starting to get reps now, but it came a few games too late. There just isn't enough information for me to really know what the kid is made of.
Long story short, the Chiefs have Safeties who have little talent, but don't really screw up a whole lot. They let plays come to them and then they can generally make them. Playmakers anticipate plays and blow them up-they can smell a playcall the minute the ball is snapped. I honestly don't think the Chiefs will ever become the defense they want to become until they can get a real playmaker here. Based on my limited draft knowledge, if Eric Berry is the playmaker scouts say he is, then you don't pass on him for a second. If Taylor Mays tests out well, he should receive strong consideration too. I know a top 5 pick may sound high for a Safety, but the importance of the Safety position has increased significantly over time. Especially for a 3-4.
- Keep: John McGraw (#2), Mike Brown (#2)
- Pick-up: High draft pick
I know the defense put up one of the most embarrassing performances in recent memory on Sunday, but they're not that far away from fielding an adequate defense. At minimum, if the Chiefs bring in a legit Nose Tackle and a playmaker at Safety, get more consistent play from their young DEs, and bring in a new Defensive Coordinator, the defense could actually be halfway decent in 2010.
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Unfortunately we cant just fire everyone...
Dorsey, TJ, Flowers, Carr and Hali have a job…
The rest are mere backups at best in my opinion…
DRAFT AN DEF COOR for gosh sakes!
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Agreed on all fronts. I think we need some Safety and Linebacker help in the draft.
I heard from analysts that say our D is quick but we don’t have any big hard-hitting bruisers. Our DT’s are supposed to run from sideline to sideline but we don’t have any chunky funky monkeys to fill the middle with PAIN.
Also, Perhaps an NT, get some OL help, and get WR/RBs late.
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
And:
Alex Magee. I bet Gillberry will most likely be back too. Aside from that the rest are toss ups. Vrabel will be back if he wants to stay, which he has already said publically he would like to “see this through”. I hope he returns. He’s a stand up guy.
BTW, how do you draft a DC?
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
agreed...
there is a bunch of dead weight on that roster. And i hope they can find a new hard nosed Defensive Coordintor. Brian Billick (sp) would be an awesome addition, but i doubt he would want the job.
Billick is actually considered an "offense guy"
It’s kind of wierd when you look at his teams at Baltimore but, that’s how he got the job there.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yep
He was the architect of those big Minnesota offenses with Daunte – Moss
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 23, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
kinda like Dungy, when he was at Indy
he was known as a defense guy, coming from Tampa…
but, the Colts were all-offense
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
And Haley too
He is an offensive genious, but his defense has been downright dominant this year.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 23, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec that comment
Blatant sarcasm at it’s best!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
It's all attitude, Craig.
Haley teams play to win the game.
……
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 23, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, but
Manning didn’t make their defense play poorly
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Isn't DJ trade-bait?
Isn’t his contract up?
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
I think we could get a 3rd or 4th
is that overly optimistic?
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
Isnt that contradictory?
If his contract is up, how can we trade him?
I’m kidding with ya…lol
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Good point. lol. Mind is on Christmas!
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
We could get a compensatory pick though... if it plays out right.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
His contract is up after this season... technically.
If no new CBA is put into place then he becomes a RFA if memory serves me correctly.
If you only knew...
yep. only if there is a new cba agreed to he will be an unrestricted free agent
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
thanks for clearing that up fellas.
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
I'm not sure.
I would imagine that they would though. The NFL still has some rules in place even if the CBA doesn’t get done to keep the league competitive.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
With no CBA
DJ will be a RFA.
I don’t expect there to be any progress on a new CBA, so 99.9% chance he’ll be restricted. But I don’t see KC spending any money to keep him. I suppose if a team makes him an offer and it’s bargain basement to match, they may match in hopes of getting a pick out of him.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
D Williams has played very well. He should be back.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 9:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Solid tackler, good fundamental guy, no "Wow" factor but doing his job is good enough for me1
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
by jk86 on Dec 23, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Best tackler on the team.
I have to give it to Haley, he was right on playing Williams over DJ.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he's real good at chasing guys down from behind but he is too small to make plays at the point of attack
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Unfortunately for DW
we have to find that guy.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Agree
I don’t know how important most people think 3/4 ILB are but I know one thing. I have NEVER seen a good defence without a really good ILB wether 3/4 D or 4/3. I think that is an area we really need to get BIGGER at period. Hali is the ONLY LB we have who I think has the strength to be playing LB in the 3/4 as I have mentioned before LB should be able to rotate through all 4 positions. We need some 6’4’’ + 250lb + LBs all over 3 of them before this D will consistntly stop the run.
- Need a Strong Pile pushing NT who will draw a double team every play.
- A Dominant ILB playmaker with size
- A Safety FS or SS as Brown can play opposite the filled position next year.
- A good pass rushing OLB that can stop the run.
Those have to be filled.
If possible this would complete the D
- another big fast ILB that can tackle
- a Safety another playmaker get two playmakers at Safety this D gains alot.
- Another NT for situational play.
- a third corner with starter capability.
We fill those holes we have a dominant D.
+1
Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot...buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath & Beyond, I don't know...I don't know if we'll have enough time.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 23, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
But as the "weak" ILB, isn't that what you want really?
A beast like Terrance Cody would keep him clean.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 23, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Def. agree
He clogs the hole and can actually fight off blockers as well
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
by DT58forever on Dec 23, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Not so...
agreed DJ DID have more takles 85 to 24 BUT I think it has to do with position too! I think IF DJ would have played his regular position at OLB he would have done better! Some people AREN’T meant to move and are only good at 1 position!
has not...
d williams has consistently played out of position and gets washed out of many plays… he is a below average cover LB… he should be dropped in my opinion…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Disagree re Suh
I don’t think it’s gonna happen, but if Suh dropped to me, I’d draft him. Too talented to pass up, way too talented. He’s much more a prototypical 3-4 DE than is Dorsey and I think he has a bit more long-term potential— e.g., pressuring the passer. I don’t disagree that Dorsey is having a better year, has lots of potential, but to me he still looks like a 4-3 DT playing a bit out of position on running downs.
Sigh..
If only Dorsey were about 25 lbs heavier.
um, I think he was before the OTAs
:)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
more like 50...or was that bowe?
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Re: Suh
Unless the Chiefs decide to shift back to a 4-3, Suh would mean investing three top-level contracts on 2 positions. And 2 positions that are important, but aren’t ones you break the bank for. Because Suh’s only place in KC is as a 5-technique DE. So help us if the Chiefs put that much money and talent into a 5-technique and ignore needs everywhere else across the board.
man could
you even imagine the idea of Dorsey and Suh as our 2 DT’s with Hali back on his natural side but then I guess Jackson would have been a wasted pick….oh what could have been with Jared Allen on the other side
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
by DT58forever on Dec 23, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Allen didn't want to play for Peterson
He didn’t want to play for us any more due to Peterson…At least we have Albert and Charles to show for it. If Morgan would step it up I think we made the right choice. Charles is the man. Look what he is doing without an Oline
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Not a wasted pick but a high pick playing situationally on running plays at end or passing plays at DT
But honestly thats all I think he should be doing anyway, He never was a dominant player in college just healthy that his draw is he stays healthy not dominant.
No. No. No. No. No.
Even if Suh does drop to us, we better not take him. I get that he’s a great talent, but he would not work in our 3-4 system right now. He’s not big enough to play NT, as he only weighs about 300 lbs. It would be pointless to draft him to replace TJax, who was our #3 pick this year, or Dorsey who was our #5 last year. Plus Dorsey is showing a lot of improvement. Prior to getting injured in the Bills game he was ranked 9th for tackles among all defensive linemen.
Suh would be make our DL picks over the last 3 years excessive to the point of absurdity. IMO, we better pick either Eric Berry or Russel Okung.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
i agree suh would be a wasted pick but we better not take okung either
we have a LT already so that pick would be pretty much wasted as well. i know some believe that we should take him and move albert but there’s no reason to. albert is fine. what we need on the oline is a center and help on the right side. maybe also a replacement for waters as he’s not going to be around much longer. picking up any of those with a top 5 pick would be stupid. we can fix our o line just as well as it would be with okung but for half the price with a later pick so why waste one on him. what we need is a safety so if by some chance berry isn’t there take mays. i know most aren’t big on him, i myself would sacrifice my first born for berry, but he’s the next best choice a position of dire need.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
I guess I'm in the move Albert, stay the fuck away from Mays party.
Albert has regressed this season whether Haley wants to admit it or not. He’s given up 8 sacks and commited more penalties than anyone on the team. I think moving him back to his original position (LG) would help him out. Okung’s scouting reports say that he ecxells as a pass protector (which LTs need to excell at) and that the guy just has TREMENDOUS upside moving into the NFL. He’s a prototypical LT. Albert was/is not. Albert can develop into a good LT, don’t get me wrong. But If Berry isn’t available, a franchise LT is the next best, most safe pick. Which brings me to my next point:
Stay the fuck away from Taylor Mays. I don’t get why some people are so high on the guy, other than that he’s freakishly big and athletic for his position. Reports knock on him for not wrapping up in his tackles, having hard hands, and generally just not making game changing plays. If we pick #3 overall, then Mays would be an awful reach. We really can’t afford two of those in a row. IMO, a play maker has to be gotten with our first this year. And if one (in this case Berry) isn’t available, then make a safe pick and solidify the OL…. which has been historically awful in terms of KC standards.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I really like Campbell on the O-LIne
He is FAST for his size strong with good technique and Him and Albert together on the left could be as dominant as Roaf – Waters was, would definatly be a really good Left side.
a lot of O-linemen have sophomore slumps
look at clady who everyone thought was the best o linemen to come out of the draft last year. albert is also learning a different blocking scheme so there was going to be a bit of a decline in performance. but even though he’s not playing at the same level he was last year, he’s still been good this year. one of the bright spots in our horrible o-line. definitely played better then waters.
okung would definitely help out the o-line, but since albert, as you said can develop into a good LT, why move him. waters has the LG for at least another year, so use later picks to get a good center and maybe someone for the right side and your o-line is just as good as if we had gotten okung. that still leaves us with our number 1 pick to try and get someone who can have a huge impact on our team right now.
now i’m not high on mays but he’s still a very good safety. like you said he’s very athletic. since mays will probably go in the top 10 i don’t see why it’s such a reach. you mentioned that a franchise LT is the most safe pick. first rule in gambling;
if you always play safe you’ll never win big. eventually you have to take a chance on that not safe pick to get the HoFer. and since we can get pieces to make a solid o-line later in the draft, it’s not that big of a gamble. use our number 1 for playmaker, not a safe pick.
with all that said the thing i’m most excited about in this draft is that there is a very good chance that the player we need the most will still be there when we pick so im not really worried about berry not being there. i’m more worried pioli sees something different a picks what he thinks is our greatest need.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Excellent points.
I agree with a lot of that. I think you’re right in pointing out that Berry should be available when we pick. We’re likely to lose our last two, so a #2 or 3 should be expected. Tampa and/or STL will be ahead of us. Tampa would likely take Suh, and STL should be in the market for a QB. Clausen or Bradford would fit there. Who knows though.
Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t risk a pick on Mays. He screams out raw talent. Big body, great athlete, but leaves lot of room for improvement in terms of coverage and defending skills. We had a guy like that in Pollard. Another Pollard IS NOT worthy of the 2nd or 3rd overall pick.
The reason I’m concerned with safe picks is because we can’t afford to gamble right now. You don’t go to a roulette table and put all your assets on #17 when your refrigerator is empty and you’re a month behind on your mortgage. This team has to be smart until we’re in a position to be able to gamble on a questionable first round pick.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."- Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"- Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
So youre saying
that even though Dorsey was once the “best player in the draft” and the “best player in his position in recent years”, and we invested a top 5 pick in Tyson Jackson..AND spent a 3rd rounder on Alex Magee..that we should draft Suh anyway?
Hell…no. That makes NO sense to keep filling holes that have already been filled, when their are more important holes that still need to be filled. If Suh falls to us, im MORE than willing to bet my salary that we use him to trade down. Everybody wants Suh, and even though MOST teams wont trade into the top 5, a player like Suh should draw that attention.
However, I’m against trading down because if we trade down too far, we likely wont have one of these top playmakers still on the board. BTW…everybody talks about Suh like he’ll be an instant contributer..well I hate to break it to all these Suh fans but hes going to take atleast a year or 2 to develop just like every other DT/3-4 DE does.
Dorsey playing out of position on running downs? He’s already beaten his tackle total from last year (which is quite a number of tackles for a player in his position) even though he missed a game and still has 2 games left. He doesnt have any sacks, but he’s still a little young to have developed a pass rush from his position. Jackson and Dorsey both WILL get better with more playing time.
If you keep drafting the BPA, youre going to end up in a hole because what if the BPA plays the same position as the BPA you drafted in the years before? Again..youre filling holes that arent there. Dorsey has been a bright spot on this defense and for you to say he plays out of position on running downs, I have to disagree considering what the Cleveland Browns did to us without him. Seriously..the BROWNS put up over 300 yards rushing on us. THE BROWNS!
We need to stop drafting positions that are going to take time to develop and draft someone who can make an immediate impact right away..such as a LB or a S. I prefer S because we get burnt way too often. Suh is a great player no doubt. But the only way he makes this team is if we trade Dorsey. I wouldnt trade Dorsey for any less than a mid to late first round pick. His potential and upside combined with where he was drafted and how young he still is, it’d be ridiculous to take anything less. But then we’d be taking a step back because we’d have a rookie DL 3 years straight and we need to start making progress and stop regressing. If Eric Berry AND Suh were still there…I’d take Berry.
Take Suh
Move Magee over behind Jackson, let Suh play rotational with Dorsey, and let Suh Play 3rd down NT. Trade Dorsey for a high first next year, good for a LT, use our first next year on a Corner, move Carr to free safety.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 23, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Petey14 is right
No way that happens…What makes you think Carr would be a good free safety?
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't arguing
I was just wondering what skills you see in Carr that make you think he would make the transition to FS
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously
thats fantasy world talk. We havent even finished this season and youre talking about next season?
Suh is not a freaking NT. I’m tired of people talking about him like he is. Traditional NT’s are roughly 6’2, 320+lbs and have strength through the roof. Dorsey is closer to the NT size if he gained weight but he doesnt have that exceptional strength that the NT position demands.
It makes no sense to continually draft players that take 2-3 seasons to really develop. We already have 2 young and decent DE’s who’s potential is pretty high. We keep talking about the strides that Dorsey has been making which is good..but nobody stops to consider that hes playing that good..in his FIRST year as a 3-4 DE.
We need an immediate defensive impact player and Suh is not that. Besides, Suh is LIKELY to go before we pick. It’s pretty likely that Tampa will take Suh so unless we pick before Tamba, I dont see Suh falling to us.
Again, you want to draft a 1st round CB next year? Why? Carr is playing pretty damn good for a 5th round pick and Flowers is lookin like an all pro. He’s dropped probably 7 picks this year that hit him square in the hands. If he makes those catches, hes a probowler. Why RISK putting Carr at FS when we can DRAFT a FS NOW and not have to worry about it next year?
With the other holes on this team, why would we upgrade positions that are not a primary need right now? DE is the least of our worries, and our coverage will get better as the pass rush improves, especially if we draft a playmaking safety right now.
Very rarely do you see a S with the talent of Berry come out of college. Suh..well..hes being hyped much just like Glenn Dorsey was a couple of years ago.
As I recall
Dorsey was drafted to be a 4-3 defensive tackle. The selling points were that he had great quickness, power, pursuit, and good technique for a run-stopping 4-3 DT, who could also develop into an interior pass rusher. That’s not gonna happen for him here in KC now that the new regime is in.
It’s possible that he would do even better as a 4-3 DT than what he’s done this year playing on the end. It’s great that he’s been able to move to a 3-4 DE, shows his talent and work ethic well. I think it comes down to whether you think Suh would be a significant upgrade at the 3-4 DE position, and whether you think another team that plays a 4-3 would value Dorsey high in their scheme. I think that Dorsey’s more likely to make the Pro Bowl as a 4-3 DT than he is as a 3-4 DE. What’s certain is that eventually Dorsey’s rookie contract will run out, and he can decide if he’d prefer to play one or the other, and be paid accordingly.
The idea of trading down and letting another team pick Suh is interesting. I still agree that we’re unlikely to get Suh: even if the Chiefs lose out, Detroit will be in front of him and they will draft him.
Re using lots of draft choices on the defensive line: well, after last Sunday, I find it hard to believe that the roster already has enough good d-line players, even with Dorsey back in the game. For many weeks before Cleveland, the KC run defense was poor compared to league standards. Presumably the young guys will learn and improve over time… but I still think you’re going to see Pioli et al draft more guys for the line, CERTAINLY someone young to groom into an excellent nose tackle, and probably at least one more for depth.
Theres a good chance we will be picking ahead of Detroit
They play Chicago at home the final week of the season, and Chicago has given up on this season. If we lose out, and Tampa can beat Atlanta in the final week at home, it’s possible we will pick #2 overall.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Too talented to...
…he’s too talented to pass up?? Isn’t that what they said about Dorsey? (No offense to Glenn) Dorsey didn’t exactlyl turn out to be “SPECTACULAR” although he is holding his own for now, but he is not doing all too “ELITE” (TO ME) to be considered a #1 draft pick!!
anyone notice tyson jackson being double teamed in that picture?
amazing for a guy who sucks to draw double teams
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
noticed that too
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
by DT58forever on Dec 23, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
That probably explains "sucks"
If he had good linebackers behind him, they are supposed to make the plays while he is taking up two blockers.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
scheme
most likely that was a blocking scheme… not to mention the oline of buffalo leaves alot to be desired… looking back at most games… jackson is normally singularly handled by a guard… and being taken out of the play 99% of the time…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
You forgot the sarcasm font
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
"Chiefs have Safeties who have little talent, but don't really screw up a whole lot"
What?
IMO, they screw up a LOT… thus the big plays
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Re: Safeties
The last few games, they haven’t been playing horrible. They’re in the right spots. They just don’t make plays and they don’t have the athletic ability to get to plays soon enough.
I do agree about the DL though
you see blockers getting on Mays, williams and Brown…
those guys should be swallowed up by the front 3, allowing the LB/S to run free.
Brown misses tackles and gets blocked out of plays quite often. McGraw is, as you said, a ST/backup guy, and shouldn’t be starting.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
i know this may contradict
what we saw on the field but Morgan was making plays at the line and tackling well
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
by DT58forever on Dec 23, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
D Williams is dogcrap, he is horrible and Mays is worse...
They make NO plays. At all.
Mays is worth, but Demarrio is a sound tackler. Not fancy and flashy, but he can wrap up a guy and take him down. With this team, that should be enough! LOL
"Speed...(long pause)....Kills." -- Lenny Dawson (on JC)
D Williams is...
not a shitty player. If you look at his stats there buddy! He does lead the team with 102 tackles (85 being solo), and 3 Pass deflections. No those aren’t Sacks or anything BUT then next person down from him with Tackles is Mike Brown with 84 (68 solo).
Ya he may not be an OUTSTANDING player BUT you can’t call him dogcrap when he leads the team in tackles!
Didn't Pollard lead the team last year?
I for one wouldn’t want him on our team now
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
He IS the leading tackler on the team.
He has been solid all year. With all the problems on this defense, I don’t see how you can justifiably complain about Williams. He does his job.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
he is the leading tackler on a team that is horrible at tackling… thats like saying cow manure is better than horse manure because it stinks less…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
But it does stink less.
I haven’t really noticed him being out of position much. He seems to always be around the ball. I’m not saying we couldn’t use an upgrade but, he has played pretty well and I don’t know if he will be on top of the list of priorities this offseason. We have a LOT of issues on this defense.
Also, people shouldn’t forget this, we need to get a RB and a REALLY GOOD WR this year as well. We can’t put ALL of our draft picks into the defense. This offense needs help too. Not as bad, but still, it needs help. Especially on the O-line.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Cow Manure is better than horse manure
Not because it stinks less, because Cow Manure builds soil, horse manure is just a fertilizer, not as well broken down.
I’d like to see Suh in a chiefs uniform next year, Dan Williams, and O’Dowd, the Pouncey bros. or Wisniewski in the first 2 rounds, I’d also like to see Golden Tate and Jason Fox.
3 picks on Offense and 2 on defense, 4 picks on the lines, and the offensive picks would improve the defense. If the offense was more efficient and kept the defense off of the field for longer periods of time, we wouldn’t be trashing the defense so much.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 23, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
People don't really see that point...But they should.
RE: good offensive play making the D look better. It makes total sense. If the offense is spending most of the time on the field, The defense is rested and probably would’nt have to play from behind all the time. Playing with a lead allows the defense to dictate the game a lot more. It forces the other team into being one dimensional and gives the defense more play making opportunities.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
In the 3-4
Suh has more upside than Dorsey or Jackson in the 3-4, but you’re right it’ll set us back a year if we take him and trade Jackson or Dorsey. I rave about it because Suh very well could be used as depth behind Dorsey and Jackson in a bigger role than Magee plays, he could play 3rd down NT, and after his feet are wet a season in, next year in a shallower draft Dorsey could be used as trade bait to get one of the better LT’s in next year’s draft, commanding a better pick(s), than he does this year, Barring injury.
Pick up Hampton and grab Williams to play NT in the second, that would give us the flexibility to play the 3-4 or the 4-3 without having Hali ever touch his hand to the ground and being a blitzing LB out of any defensive scheme.
Suh, Magee, Jackson could play DE or DT in the 4-3, or DE in the 3-4, Hampton and Williams could be the rock in either defense and Dorsey could play DE in the 3-4 or DT in the 4-3. Too many possibilities on the D-Line and it’d be solid with any look, we wouldn’t suffer in changeups like NE has this year.
O’Dowd, Wisniewski, or Pouncey at C, and Fox at OT would give the flexibility to move around Alleman, NDukwe, Colin Brown. The more I think about it having Colin Brown at LG and NDukwe at RG, Albert at LT, a rookie C and O’Cal at the beginning of the season and Fox at the end, we’d have the flexibility to send Waters off for a conditional pick before his playing days are over.
Tate at WR should cut down on some of our drops, making moving the chains easier.
If at all possible Watson at TE and Griffith at FB this would be a very different team next year, with a few more coaches.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 23, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
don't get me wrong
a suh, dorsey, jackson, magee would be one sick set of 3-4 DEs but the practicality of it is just not there. if either dorsey or jackson were not a top 5 pick that would be one thing, but 3 top 5 pick 3-4 DEs would just be absurd. we would be putting half of our sal cap into one aspect of the game. not very smart. suh is a tremendous athlete and i’d love to see him as a chief were these different circumstances, but they are not. we have two very capable 3-4 DEs now so there’s no need to grab another when we have so many wholes that need to be filled.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
don't kid yourself
there will be another one. just different rules applied to it.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Maybe so
But I doubt it’ll be this offseason, maybe not even next offseason
by mcclanahanman on Dec 24, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
Towards the end of the season we are seeing the Beating take its toll on him
Even with DJ playing 3rd down Williams just does not have the frame to hold up in the Middle
Shouldn't your ILB ALWAYS LEAD YOUR TEAM IN TACKLES?
Caps is cruise control for cool. But seriously, I hate the “he’s the leading tackler” argument made for a ILB. That’s his job, Mike Maslowski led the team in tackles and I believe holds the single season record for the Chiefs but that defense was awful…what the stat doesnt tell you is how far down the damn field the tackles were.
by Ryan in Nixa on Dec 23, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Maz was awesome though!!!
It was a shame that he got hurt. I loved that guy. What a great football name too!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Suh and MLB
Great write-up…. I enjoyed reading it. My two cents….
If Scott Pioli has a chance to draft Suh, no doubt in my mind he pulls the trigger. Pioli was a defensive linemen and has a proven track record of selecting all pro defensive linemen in the first round. Suh has a demonstrated ability to rush the passer and single-handedly stop the run, two things we desperately need. I think Suh would prove to be a tremendous upgrade over Dorsey (although i am a dorsey fan) and if he falls to us, we will take him.
you said… “MLB are the least important position in a 3-4” tell that to haley who has watched jerome harrison jump over our defenders straight up the guy past two of our MLB on way to a 71 yard score. Granted, NT would have helped a lot, but two MLB had the opportunity to make the play and neither could. Also, Ray Lewis? If we want someone to set the tone and attitude of our defense, who better than a dominant MLB?
LB's need an Overhaul
You can keep D williams and Hali for 3rd down situations but everyone else is a back up at best.
I don’t think they need to be superstars but if you look at teams that run 3-4 the LB’s are the playmakers.
I agree
I think the ILBs are good run stoppers (well, before the past 2-3 weeks they were), but we need faster guys who are able to defend the short passes over the middle. Remember how TEs for good teams have killed KC all season.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
i agree with this post
I love tamba I don’t think he’s the answer he just doesn’t have the speed. But if we get a dominat nose tackle his value goes up cuz less guys would pay attention to him and have to pick up the inside nose tackle I feel is the biggest need on defense we can’t stop the run and that is a must to b successful on defense
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Dec 23, 2009 10:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Regarding Tamba
I think he’s better than a lot of us give him credit for. He beats his blockers a lot, the problem appears to be that there’s no push from Edwards (as Jon alluded to) and therefore the QB is usually able to just step up in the pocket once he starts to get the pressure. I think if you put Hali with a solid D (like any of the NFC East teams) he’d have 12 or more sacks at this point.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Need a space eater
Not sure you could pass on Suh? We would have great trade bait with him or other players.
I personally would take Okung, he has all the physcial traits to be stud. We have so many needs that not sure we will screw this draft up!! Look for lots of deals this year. Wilfolf F/A? Richard Seymour? Game is won and lost in the trench!!!
by BBell78 on Dec 23, 2009 10:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions
patriots formula
sadly… if they follow the formula… and they certainly will… Oline will be addressed in free agency… and most likely okung will be gone by the time we pick… balagula will be our choice if we choose OL…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Sorry to bust your balls, but that's just not true.
LT Matt Light was a 2nd round pick. LG Logan MAnkins was a 1st round. C Dan Koppen was a 5th round. RG Stephen Neal was an undrafted rookie FA. RT Nick Kaczur was a 3rd round pick.
The entire Patriots OL has never played for a team other than the Pats. 4 of the 5 were outright drafted.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
amazing
what can be done if you have a good O-line coach, you dont have to sign high priced FA you can draft them and still keep your QB from getting killed.
That goes without saying.
But the best O linemen don’t go to FA very often. Most teams are smart enough to know to keep their stud linemen.
The teams with the best O lines in the NFL have proven that drafting is the only way to build an elite line. Look at IND, BAL, NE, MIN, etc. All of those teams have one, maybe two FA line men.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
We need a top tier Center and we NEED to get him in this draft. I would be okay if we could land a good guard in FA but, the Center position is crucial to our success in the future. GREAT Centers make all the difference on the line.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah.
We should be able to land a top tier C with one of our 2nd round picks. We can get decent G with a 3rd or 4th. I’m still curious to see what Colin Brown can do. Putting him on IR was a bummer.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, there are a couple guys on the roster that
could help on the O-Line. B Rich passes the eye test, and Smith has been invaluable, and as Red N Gold Beast said we don’t know about Brown, he could help too.
You have to have noticed the O-Lines play has been better the last few weeks, so maybe they are not as bad as it seemed early in the season. O’Callhagan looks like he’s the right Tackle they have needed.
IMO O-Line has become less of a priority now.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
It's still pretty bad though.
We’ve gone from needing 3 or 4 OL from week 1 to needing only about 2. IMO, a C and a G should shore up this OL. I think that drafting Okung (if Berry is gone) would greatly improve this team. Albert can move to LG, Waters to RG and our new C can start immediately. Cut Niswanger. I can’t stand the guy. We’d have a beast line then, with 3 high draft picks securing the left side and center… and we could use the draft following this one to deal with Waters getting old and nearing retirement/free agency.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Needs too many
picks too few.
Chiefs could just draft a Guard, if Brown’s not ready, Move Waters to Center (he’s slowed quite a bit, be a way of extending his career). He’s not fast enough to pull any more, needs to be a straight ahead blocker like a Center. Will have improved two spots with one pick.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Good points.
If that’s the case I’m still in the “pick Okung if Berry is gone” party. Last year I read an article that pointed out that statistically, OTs and LBs have the highest success rate of first round picks. They are generally very safe picks. The percentages (if I remember correctly) were about 80% for OL and 65% for LBs. The percentages are based on them remaining as starters in the NFL for at least 3 or 4 consecutive years. WRs and QBs had the lowest percentages. Can’t remember where DBs ranked, but I feel confident that Berry is going to be what’s expected of him… a game changer. A defensive cornerstone.
As it is, the Chiefs do have so many needs that a safe pick in the first round would be wise. OL is almost can’t miss.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
+1 on that.
It would improve multiple positions and we could get some instant gratification out of that pick. I too am tired of waiting for our 1st rounders to develope. We need help now.
I don’t care what we do with Waters although, I think I would rather see him at RG and select a Center in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Albert would be the best LG in the league, I guarantee it. He would be in the Pro Bowl next season. Okung has all the tools to be a future Pro Bowler as well. We could then groom someone to take over for Waters when he retires. (Probably Ndukwe)
That could potentially be one of the best O-lines in the league.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Help Safety Needed
I am a huge Chiefs and living in TX I get a chance to see the Texans play every Sun, (somebody help me) but anyway I see Pollard making huge palys for the Texans and he is tackling. I just wish we had kept him and wonder how much of a difference he would have made if we kept him
Pollard
The Texans Defense is leaps and bounds better than ours talent wise. Pollard made plays for us but blew twice as many as he made. The other Texans players are able to cover for him when he is out of position. If I remember correctly I read something about him being the safety that has been burned the most out of any safety in the league this year. I would have liked him for maybe a linebacker on 3rd down
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Bull Pollard was our best player
And LD the team in tackles this PRE-SEASON have no clue why we let him go other than he KNEW DEFENCE BETTER than Pendergast and ARGUED his point but u know even if a player is right if your not Brett you leave. Once again I will say Clancy GET THE HELL OUT OF KC YOU SUCK BALLS.
Can't agree more with the Pendergast statement
You are saying Pollard is better than Flowers? Those players are not even in the same category. Pollard was not a good safety especially for a 3-4 defense. If he was back there I bet we would get burned more than we already have this year. Yes he shows up and make a big play here and there but he has never been consistant on every down. I remember being so pissed off at him on many occasions much more than I was happy with him.
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
We will have to disagree I am a major Pollard fan and will be
For atleast another 8 yrs or so cause he will be starting in the NFL that much longer.
Remember what we keep saying about
giving players time to develop this was supposed to be Pollards year to judge him.
Agreed
I wasn’t exactly happy with the cut, but I can see why he was cut. On a team with our talent level you think we could have used the guy some where. I don’t believe he will be a starter for eight years. I imagine he will be in the league as a backup in a few years. He just isn’t elite enough.
by groundedchevy on Dec 23, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
groundedchevy
is right. He’s NOT a 3-4 Safety and has some emotional and attitude issues (training camp spat with pendergast, fighting with Steven Jackson on the field)
Haley had to tell him to shut his mouth in camp. If I have to, I’ll dig back on AP and find the article that mention half of the offense (If I remember correctly, the offensive line) tried to go after him because he was running his mouth too much.
Pollard plays Strong Safety. He played in a 4-3 system his entire college career, being utilized as an in-the-box, run support Strong Safety. That is NOT how a 3-4 Strong Safety is supposed to play. Think of Pollard being a “4th Linebacker” from his safety position. In a 3-4..there’s already 4 Linebackers..whats the point in having a 5th? There isnt..because that Strong Safety in the 3-4 is supposed to be a coverage guy, like the Free Safety.
Look at Pittsburgh’s defense. Troy is a coverage guy, shown by his pass deflections and interceptions over the years. But the thing that makes him so special is the ABILITY to sniff out the run as well. If Pollard could cover well, I’d say it was somewhat of a mistake to cut him. (his emotional/attitude issues would still be an issue)
Yup
I remember that. In fact I mentioned it after he went on 810 claiming he was black balled by the Chiefs.
His claiming that he “ALWAYS” supported his teammates.
LOL When you got the entire offense wantin to kick your ass during team stretches, cuz your running your dick sucker, taunting the O, in front of the fans and press, doesn’t sound like support to me.
But he still could have helped this team. lol
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.
Pollard was not good for the 3-4. Look at PIT 3-4. Polamalu is the type of S you want in a 3-4. You want them to excel in coverage, which Polamalu does so well that I think he’s one of the greatest S ever.Pollard was not a good coverage S. And he’s still not. He still gets burned more than any other S in the NFL.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Question of the day...
Is Berry good enough to be that guy?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmmmmm.....
I think hope so. I’m on the draft Berry train. His scouting reports look good, and there aren’t a lot of scouts that think he won’t be a top 5 talent. Plus he’s smart. He has a 3.7 GPA and scored a 970 on his SAT. Basically he’s described as an elite playmaker, who’s a top tier athlete, and understands the game of football extremely well.
I’m of the opinion that we need an absolute play maker to come from our top 5 pick. Someone that can change a game. Berry seems to fit that bill. I do think Berry can be our Polamalu. And granted, I rarely make strong assumptions about our potential draft picks. I was not thrilled with Dorsey or Albert. I was ecstatic when we picked Flowers. I feel the same way about Berry.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
So Rolle & Berry
would be the smartest Safety combo in the history of football. Sounds good to me, if they can play!
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Myron Rolle looks to be a smart guy,
But I don’t think drafting him would be wise. Granted, he’s around a 5th round prospect, but Morgan deserves more time. And McGraw hasn’t been that bad. An upgrade is always welcome, but I don’t think Rolle will be a target. Especially if we get Berry. We’ll have a strong secondary with two studs in Berry and Flowers, along with solid starters in Carr and Morgan/McGraw.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
I see your point
I’m thinking ONE safety is all KC will draft this year…
but they HAVE to get ONE…
Berry, Allen, Rolle would be my fav’s… in that order.
Page could still come back and play FS next season, IF he had a better SS in front of him.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
puke
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
He should never have been put in coverage constantly, but then again, he's no Adrian Wilson.
I always had dreams of him blitzing the corner (like those times he blocked punts), especially with Haley and Penderghastly. He was a poor man’s Adrian Wilson. But AW is very good at coverage, so I guess it was foolish for me to want Pollard to be our version.
Suh can not help us!
He is a undersized 4-3 DT who has ABSOLUTELY NO USE TO US! Krumrie couldn’t coach him up even if we did draft him (which we won’t) If you hadn’t already noticed, we have spent two 1st rounders AND a 3rd rounder on three guys who play the same position as him. We need a NT and there is no way Suh is or ever will be big enough to play that position. We are covered in the DE dept.
We don’t need him! PLease stop!!!! Please! DAMN!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 10:42 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Don't worry
There is no way Pioli would draft Suh, unless he trades Dorsey away first. Suh has probably captured the imaginations of 25 GMs after that Texas display, so if he’s available when we pick it wouldn’t be much of a problem to trade down for extra picks. There’s a very real chance we will be picking 2nd or 3rd, so it’s fairly possible he will be on the board when we pick.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Dec 23, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That move will slow the prgress of the D-line for one more year.
If we draft Suh and trade Dorsey, look for another “rebuilding year” for our defense because Suh will not progress any quicker than our other 1st round D-linemen. I don’t like it.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't like it either
I just meant that I think that’s the only scenario where Pioli would draft Suh. He won’t be drafted to be our NT, and certainly not as a backup to Dorsey.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I doubt it.
Tampa will probably pick before us…. and there’s a good chance they’ll take Suh.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
BTW
Studebaker is a stud!! High motor guy. How about adding Brandon Spikes?
by BBell78 on Dec 23, 2009 10:43 AM CST via mobile reply actions
duuude i been say spikes all season long
That guy is a beast and he has a nose to make plays I say he is our pick and it would b great to get a nose in the second round along wit an oline man in the second round and we will be in business.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Dec 23, 2009 11:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Most expect Spikes to be around in the 2nd round
I think he’d be a good pick there, but not at the top of the 1st round.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
i'd love to see spikes here (if only for his name :p)
but i think he’ll be gone before we can get him. if he’s still there in the second he would pull the trigger.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
The knock on him is...
he’s too slow. Who cares if he will take on full-backs instead of dodging them. He seems to have “football” speed
speed isn't everything
it’s nice but if you have someone that plays with that kind of aggression and strength, they can afford to be a little slower then others.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Ding ding!!!
Spikes! Now that’s a guy who can help us.
Good Read
I think it was one of the best I’ve read this season. Very through and well thought out.
If only we hadn’t reached on Jackson last year…..
If only we hadn’t reached on Jackson last year…..
True but, we did. He will do a nice job in the future just like Dorsey. Those picks will pay off in due time. But seriously, all the talk about Suh just needs to stop right now. It’s NOT going to happen.
Story of the Chiefs
in the draft is to reach on a player and hope they work out. We’re still hoping that Jackson is going to work out (as a first round talent)
I just wish we could land a sure fire pick that we don’t have to ponder whether or not he was worthy of the pick. Jackson was probably a second round guy had there not been so many teams switching to the 3-4 at one time.
While I think Jackson’s okay..he’s shown no elite talent. Young at the position..I get it..but where is the FLASH? The GLIMMER? We could’ve tried to sign a vet and used the pick for a different position.
That sums up what I think when I hear the name “Tyson Jackson”
by Knocknheads on Dec 23, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Couldn't disagree more with your
opinion on MLB’ers in a 34. There vital. There job is to shoot gaps and make plays in the back field, and they also have to be smart, QB’s of the D. And, they need to be fast enough to drop into coverage occasionally , and make plays from sideline to sideline. MLB’ers are Vital. Williams stays, may not be a starter if they can land a guy like him but 20 lbs heavier, but he’d be a hell of a guy coming of your bench. Mays hasn’t impressed me much, I think Belcher may have more upside.
If the Chiefs get a shot at Berry, gotta pull the trigger! Not at safety but at Corner. Imagine this secondary, Berry #1 Corner, Flowers opposite him and Carr as the nickle.
I agree with your assessment on the Safety’s, team needs two starters, but if your gonna take a D-Back as a top 5 pick it needs to be a true “shut down Corner” But as you said, Safety is a definite position of need.
One thing I don't quite understand about that.
Why is it that everybody wants to discount Berry’s ability as a safety? That’s what he has played through college and is what is earning him such a high draft pick. We need a playmaking safety MUCH worse than we need another CB. His draft value would be much easier for us to justify that pick if we could use him as a safety. Don’t you think?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Shutdown corner > Safety
I don’t think his ability as a safety is discounted, but he has more value as a corner. If he can play corner at the same level as Flowers it would virtually shut down the opponents passing game.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
But...
Then we still have a glaring hole at the safety position.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
There are a lot of good safeties this year
We could still pick up a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round. I’d really have no complaints if the first four picks of the draft are two Safeties and two LBs (or a NT)
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I would.
We need interior O-linemen in a bad way. We should get the best Center on the board. We will have to AT LEAST spend one of our 2nd rounders to get him. That could stabilize our offensive front for years to come. Center HAS to be considered a priority in this draft. If they fail to address the O-line in this draft, the fans will call for Pioli’s head.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Teams get
interior O -Linemen in mid rounds. Center and Guard shouldn’t be hard to find.
But If Berry is as advertised, (easy transition to Corner in NFL) you don’t pass! I’ve found that the only way to get real value out of a top 5 pick, he has to be a difference maker. Those positions are QB, Pass Rusher extraordinaire, Left Tackle or a Shut Down Corner.
Having said that, the most important thing is…… DON"T BLOW THE PICK!!!
Say the Chiefs get a shot at Berry and take it, and he doesn’t make the transition to Corner, they would at the very least still have filled a position of need with a Safety.
If he’s there, the Chiefs gotta do it! IMHO
PS
I wasn’t short sellin Flowers or Carr for that matter, but both are smallish and both tend to let guys get behind them sometimes, their saving grace has been that both can seem to make up ground when beat, so they have good speed but not the physical presence you’d dream of for a Corner. Both have had problems with Shoulders breaking down, this yr and last.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
AT Safety
Rolle, Major Wright, Allen, Stucky, and a few other who have real potential of being game changers. No need to take a Safety in the first round.
Couldn't the same be said about a CB?
Carr has actually played pretty well as of late and of course, we all know Flowers is good so, why blow a 1st rounder on a CB?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
That's true, but
Carr has been playing well against Buffalo and Cleveland, which may be more a function of those team’s passing game. With two great cover corners the safeties would both be able to focus on the short passing game and help with run-stopping…so that aspect would be much improved as well. Maybe that’s too simplistic an argument, but it sounds good to me.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
So JMC...
I go back to my original question. Why can’t Berry be used as a Safety? I don’t think we will cut Carr and I doubt he has a ton of trade value so, I think he will still be a Chief next year. I think a guy like Berry would be great at covering the deep pass as well as stopping the run. Especially with a decent young corps of CBs. We need our own version of Troy P. If we go with a guy like Berry that early in the draft, he should be expected to perform as such. Don’t you think? if he’s not good enough to be that guy then he shouldn’t be considered worthy of a top 5 pick.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'd have no problem at all with him being used at safey
I think he’d be a star there. I’m just saying that if he can be a great corner then it may be wiser to put him there opposite Flowers & draft someone else to play Safety in the 2nd or 3rd round. I definitely wouldn’t release Carr, he’d be a valuable Nickle CB & backup to Flowers/Berry.
Berry could eventually be a Rod Woodson type, who plays CB for most of his career, but can then move to Safety when he’s older & be great there as well.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
^5 jmc
My thoughts exactly, Corner for 8 maybe 10 yrs then a move to Safety.
Providing the hype is real. That’s why ya pay a Pioli all that money, he’s supposed to know this stuff.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I've been on and off the Berry bandwagon
I don’t watch much college FB & have never actually seen him play, but the scouting reports sure do sound good.
I will say this though, I think he’s less of a bust risk than Suh is. No one has ever questioned Berry’s work ethic, or love for the game (both big in the Pioli evaluation). He’s also been consistently good at TN for three seasons, whereas Suh has only been great for one year.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Disagree
Check the archives: Suh was highly-rated at the end of last year, and some were hoping that he would come out then.
Just think...
Pioli’s gonna have this whole year to evaluate too! He won’t be as involved with looking for a HC. I can’t wait till the draft! Oh god.. it’s like I’m a Cardinal’s fan!!! AHHH!!!
Berry is just a all around football player.
Some scouting reports say he could play WR too. The guy allegedly has a very high football IQ. He’ll play whatever position he’s assigned to. He’s shown he excels as a safety, so if a team drafts him and plays him there, he’ll continue to work hard to be the best he can. He’ll be content no matter what position he plays.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
I actually go Offense with the first unless we take an ILB as McClain or Spikes
They are both 250 + and would make a major immediate impact. I would be happy with OL, WR, RB in the first aswell.
not to mention why the hell would we need a RB now
we need a back up power back and that can be easily picked up in FA or later in the draft
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Yessir.
4th or 5th round bruiser RB would be fine with me. In fact, they almost have to get a bruiser to compliment Charles so he doesn’t get killed.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."- Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"- Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Rolle would be an absolute steal if we could grab him in the 3rd.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Dec 23, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I have had my fingers crossed on that one for a couple months already
I would even take him with the 2nd of our 2nd rd picks
I would take him in the 2nd if I saw alot of safties going off the boards....
…..His learning curve would be almost non existant. That guy is smart and has good size. I would be all over him in the draft.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Dec 23, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I don't care that this draft is deep in safeties.
With us looking at the #3 overall, I’d much rather take the best player available. IMO, that’s Suh, Berry and Okung. Suh would be an excessive pick. Finding a spot for him would mean benching Jackson or Dorsey. Okung would be good, but I think that a bonafide play maker needs to be taken at #3.
A guy like Berry can revive the fanbase. We’re tired of losing. We’re tired of digging through heaps of awful, horrid, unemotional play from our Chiefs to try and find some semblance of good play…. such as getting excited when Tamba has 2 sacks every 4 weeks, or when Dorsey consistently puts up 6 tackles a game but can’t get to the QB. Berry has the potential to electrify the defense. And that’s something KC used to be known for, but for the last several years has not been able to produce. Even though there are several good looking safeties, I’d prefer to take the best one out of all of them. Kick ass safeties can solidify a defense. Just look at players like Ed Reed, Polamalu, John Lynch, Steve Atwater, Jack Tatum and Ronnie Lott.
If Berry isn’t there, then a safe pick would be a bonafide franchise tackle. Okung is that player. It wouldn’t get the fanbase pumped like a play maker would, but it would pay good dividends in the long run.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Instant gratification
With Okung, Albert, Waters, O’Call, and a mid draft pick at center, we could see the dividends getting paid early and often from the offense.
That said, if Berry is on the board, you gotta take him.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
True that.
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."- Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"- Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 23, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
well said, Beast
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Something else I noticed with that photo...
If one offensive guy wraps both arms around the defender its called holding…but if two offensive guys engage one defender and each wraps an arm around the guy, is it not still holding? Look very close at the guys “holding” TJ.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
hali as trade bait...
personally i would use hali as trade bait as he is half the OLB he should be… he is a much better fit as an outside rusher in a 4-3… could use the mid round pick to bolster the, well any part of our roster…
we need impact players at safety (personally i would like to see berry in the 1st and stuckey in the middle rounds if available) and ILB… otherwise i agree with most of the article…
sadly this points to a defense heavy draft… but to me they are much worse off than the offense…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Hali has worked very well in this scheme.
Every one of our opponents has openly stated that they have to prepare for him. I don’t see us trading him. At least not this year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
rush ability
unfortunately rush ability is only half or even a third of the responsibilities of an OLB in a 3-4… he is a below average tackler and completely out of place in coverage… hence is the reason i would get value out of him by trading him…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Without Hali, the KC pass rush is a JOKE or Abyssmal if you will. :-)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
true
but he has value as trade… his value in this system is marginal at best… remember the jackson pick last year… its all about positional value…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Definitely has trade value but,
I think his value to us is much higher as a pass rusher. Unless, somebody is willing to part with a 1st rounder for him and I seriously doubt we would get that.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
If we could land Hughes out of the trade I would do it.
Also if we get Norwood, Johnson from Kentucky, and McClain or Spikes that looks like what a 3/4 LB core should from left to right
Hughes, McClain or Spikes, Johnson, Norwood
I think it could be accomplished by trading Hali and Williams
But that would mean starting 4 rookie LB and I dont see Pioli going for that.
I would think just about everyone on this team is on the bubble, I wouldn’t really care about 90 percent of this team was gone if they improved
by Beaten and Abused on Dec 23, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions
problem is we have so many holes to fill
and so many positions that need a talent upgrade that I dont think its all going to happen in this one offseason. If it does that would be awesome, but that would mean Pioli and Haley would have to put together the best offseason the NFL has ever seen. I think its going to take 2 offseasons to get it right, but I agree we need defensive help more, as the offense has shown some signs of being able to get it done.
Maybe we trade down
There are not a lot of Q Bs that would be worth a # 1 pick. someone will want to trade up. we get more picks to fill more holes.
by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Dec 23, 2009 12:12 PM CST reply actions
question????
How do you get to the professional level, and be this bad?? Coaching? Manangement? Players? How many years do you go back and blame previous managemnt? Maybe, WE NEED DIFFERENT D/C? just a question
by BBell78 on Dec 23, 2009 12:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
How did we get here
looks like Chief 1970, you and I have watched them for many years? I used to go to Old Municipal Stadium with dad, Arthur Bryants, then tailgate.. Those old teams always played pissed off.. We to get nasty on defense, balls out mean. Make em pay when opposing team goes over middle.
WOW;;; reliving past..
by BBell78 on Dec 23, 2009 12:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only Way to watch em now
Have to have drink to watch em now!!!! OR SOMETHING!!!
by BBell78 on Dec 23, 2009 12:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I think that Inside Linebacker is one of the least important positions in a 3-4 Defense.
You’re not alone in this, but you should be. The role of a 3-4 ILB is not simply attack as you state. They play a very significant role against both the run and pass. What you do not need at ILB is a physical freak. They need to be versitile and smart. They need to be sure tacklers and able to man up TEs or zone assist Slot Receivers. And they need to be smart enough to know which role to play based on reading the O.
These guys are not a dime a dozen. We need 2 and we have zero. Because you do not need physical freaks, you don’t have to get these guys in round 1 of the draft. That said, this D will never be anything more than average until we address this problem. Upgrades here are not as important as NT or G. But it isn’t far behind.
Good read as always.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions
I don't know what your watching Satchmo
but you haven’t been watching Williams! He’s exactly what you described. He’s just a bit undersized.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 23, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
He is a decent tackler
But he is often out of position and is a huge liability in pass coverage. Perhaps your eyes deveive you because he does look good compared to what we get from Mays. Williams is a low end starter-high end backup.
Personally, I’d rather have him as the high end backup. But if you’re comfortable with below average starters…more power to ya. ;)
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Williams would be a great guy in the rotation
I wouldn’t want to say if he is or isn’t starter caliber because, he HAS played well this year. However, he has done a great job against the run compared to our other LBs. He is a very sure tackler, always wraps up and doesn’t try to arm tackle.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
He is only a sure tackler when you compare him to Mays
When you look at good ILBs he’s below average at best. Additionally, you can’t miss a tackle if you aren’t in the correct spot to make it in the first place. Williams is frequently our of position. Just less frequently than Mays or DJ. He is starter caliber when you compare him to our other ILBs. He is NOT starter caliber when you compare him to players on other teams.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, I definitely agree that we could upgrade that position but...
I don’t know how high it will be on our list of priorities. It’s very hard to know how much better all these guys would be playing if we had a better NT. That includes everyone, Hali, DJ, Dorsey, T-Jax, the whole secondary. It seems to me like everyones job would be easier if we had a dominant Nose Tackle.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 23, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
re
I think Hali is a solid player that would get exposed if this defense wasn’t so inept at nearly every other position. I think with another round of OTA’s and preseason work Hali can be a great player. He’s not particularly speedy so his room for error is tiny and he needs exerience executing his asignments.
I’m getting closer to hopping on the Berry Bandwagon TM. The last three drafts havn’t really had anyone of his caliber, maybe Lauron Landry at Washington. There’s nothing in FA in safeties but a bunch of stiffs so he might be the best pick. I could live with our current o-line with a rookie center and guard, maybe a decent right tackle will fall all the way to our 2nd pick.
For sure – don’t get your hopes up for next year, about half these picks will make significant playing time, if at all. Not to mention Pioli’s habit of for selecting a WTF player at least once a draft to try to start a fight with common sense. Were at least two years of aquisitions away from a team i think can make a run at Denver and San Diego.
Agree with the two-year timetable
You’re right: most draft picks won’t get a lot of playing time their first year.
I dissagree
Peterson (and now it’s as tho Pioli too, at least with Jackson and McGee) have convinced KC fans it takes a rookie 2 or 3 years to have an impact on a team.
That’s BS! An unknowable # of rookies have came in and had huge impacts on their teams.
This is a commen belief amongst Chiefs fans that needs to change.
We’ve been preached to so often about being patient with rookies, that now most believe a rookie can’t make a difference. Ridicules! I say!
no one is saying they can't make a difference
just that it’s not expected. just as there are many rookies that have come out and performed right away, there are many that have taken a few years to adapt. not to mention there are a number a instant impact rookies that taper off and never again show the glimpse of greatness they once had.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Pioli tried to trade down last year and will again this time...
… so no probably Berry
THIS IS WHAT I THINK!!
Ok, at Defensive End I think they should put Tamba Hali back on the line at Defensive End. I think Hali has grown faster at this position. Look how many sacks he has right now. Could you imagine how many he would have IF he was trying for the QB ALL the time and not just when the play is asking for his OLB postion to rush? I think that we should Leave Glenn Dorsey where hes’ at. He’s comming along just fine. I think we should move Tyson Jackson to DT with him standing at 6-4 and 296lbs . I think Tyson has decent enough strength to be at this position plus good speed to beat whoever is one on one with him or even double teaming him!
At DT, definitely get rid of Ron Edwards and pick up a couple of really strong guys. They don’t necessarily have to be the best at the position just good enough to back up Tyson and work along side him during the nickel and dime packages ONLY.
As for linebackers, like ive said before, move Hali back to DE. Move Johnson back to OLB because lets face it, he didn’t do so well at inside. IF we keep Vrabel put him at ILB because he IS smart when sniffing out and stopping the run but he is starting to slow with his age so the less space he has to cover the better. Also I think if we move Demorrio Williams to the other ILB position he would beable to help out Vrabel if needed since Williams does have good speed. Lastly I think that if we start Andy Studebaker now he will be an elite player at the position for years to come. If the incidents that happened while he was starting wasn’t an indicator that he should start, I don’t know what would be!!
At Cornerback I will agree that we are set…for now. Brandon Flowers has been playing very well even though he stands at 5’9. Brandon Carr is definitely playing good enough to start and I think he’s coming along nicely. I would (HOWEVER) like to see more of Donald Washington out on the field. With Washington standing at 6’1 and a Vertical of 45’, I think he would be picking of A LOT of balls given the chance. Maybe they should move him to one of the safety positions instead?
Even though Mike Brown has a few picks, that doesn’t beat the fact that HES OLD! Which means he’s a lot slower and may not be able to move from 1 side of the field to the other like he use to! So I think we should draft or pick up somebody to fix this spot. Dejuan Morgan is nice but I think he’s a lifetime back up…if that! Jarrad Page I think has been alright, maybe we could retain him as a back up but I DEFINITELY think we need to pick someone else up or draft someone to start at his position. I think (if luck happens to fall in our lap) that we should pick up Kam Chancellor (6’3 223lbs) S from Virginia Tech OR Taylor Mays (6’2 230lbs) from USC. Now I have heard it said that Mays has been compared (somewhat) to Troy Polamolu so I think it would be a steal if we can get him in the late first or early 2nd round if he falls as low as some predict!
Im kinda ify on John McGraw. He has been a decent back up at times BUT we should replace him with a new and younger guy now! He’s only got about another year left in him!!
...
*hali is neither strong enough nor a sure tackler so being hand down in the 3-4 makes him even less effective than jackson…
*jackson does not have the strength to anchor the middle… he does not move piles… does not even get into plays…
*moving johnson to OLB would have some benefit, but his pass rushing leaves a bit to be desired even though he has shown flashes this year…
*vrabel inside is not a bad idea, but he is older and doesnt run as well as he once did… which ILBs do alot of… coverage being one of their main assignments…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
Nice Post, Jon.
All these defensive posts are killing my end-of-the-year grading, though. =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
completely off subject but...
we really need a fullback… draft clay or havilli… would make charles and company’s life much easier next year…
draft eric berry and darryll stuckey.... and our defense problems are next to solved...
yes, we do.
"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.
by Kristospherein on Dec 23, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
Great analysis...
I totally agree with your analysis. We need a NT and safety as badly as we need a starting center on offense. We especially need a NT, you can personally blame Edwards and our safeties for our pathetic run D against the Browns (I saw Morgan take terrible terrible angles several times on run plays that went for major yardage…where our other safety was, I have no idea but Morgan was the only one protecting the back).
"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.
Love the analysis disagree with picking up Berry or Mays unless their avaiable in the later rounds which is not likely
I’ve watch enough from Morgan to know he’s going be a good player. One thing Herm has shown he can do is draft good def backs. Besides I’ve watched Morgan in preseason and against the Jags this year he seems to have a nose for being around the football. Page had a setback this yr but injuries prevented us from really see if he was going to progress in the 3-4. But for the last couple yrs he’s been one of the best def. backs on this team him and Flowers. I say off. line and receiver is far more important in the early rounds of the draft than any position on defense. We got 3 picks between round 1 to 2 we need to add two lineman and a receiver. If not receiver then I can see us at least in the second round picking up a top notch nose tackle or outside linebacker Tamba is going to be good but he needs someone opposite of him that can apply some pressure.
However
I do agree we need to add some younger safeties to this team but in the later round we can get by with Page and Morgan starting at free and strong safety next yr. The bigger needs on defense is OLB and nose tackle both positions are vital if you’re going to be successful in the 3-4. You got to have a space eater in the middle of that defense and you got to have an athletic high moter OLB that can attack the QB running a 3-4 defense
I do agree with you...
…that we need someone to eat up space I believe williams and Vrabel can do that. Moving DJ to the outside line backer and Studabaker on the outside. They both have speed and a high motor to quickly move on the outside.
Pictures say a thousand words..
and your right Jackson is doubled, and that is important. You typically want to see that out of the NT, but hey…thats a good sign. What isnt good, is 71 beside him with his back to the quarterback.

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