The Nose Tackle Problem
by Aesthetist on Dec 22, 2009 2:01 PM CST
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The Chiefs need to get better lineman on both sides of the ball. The O-line needs the most help at C and G positions. These can fixed with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks. The Chiefs need playmakers on defense. The linebackers have played horribly and need a NT to stop the run and get blocks off them.
In my opinion we take Berry in the first if available. He's just that rare of a talent. But Jake Locker staying in school looks like that won't happen. So we address our most pressing need, the nose tackle. Most of us know that one of the most difficult positions to fill in the NFL today is the NT position in the 3-4.
The Chiefs have Ron Edwards, who played well enough to not be the worst part of our defense. But our rushing yards allowed and poor ILB play make this position a priority upgrade in the off-season. What options do our beloved Chiefs have?
We'll explore our options in free agency and the draft after the break...
Free Agency:
Vince Wilfork, NE: Not going happen. The Hoodie traded away Seymour so he could keep the anchor of Patriots defense.
Aubrayo Franklin, SF: Not going to happen. He gets franchised by SF if no deal is reached.
Casey Hampton, PITT: Most likely stays in Pitt. But if he walks he's looking for the big payday. Could Pioli put up the money to bring an aging NT to a 3-13 team
Ryan Pickett, GBP: This could be our golden ticket. He's playing great football for GB and has B.J. Raji playing well behind him. Unfortunately I think the Packers want to keep platooning Pickett and Raji for a few more seasons to let Raji develop.
The moral here is that as much as I'd like to fix this position in FA, I can't see KC convincing an elite NT to come to the Chiefs. We'd have to go Dan Snyder and overpay like crazy and that doesn't seem like the Pioli way.
The Draft:
Dan Williams, Tennessee: A hard working, high motor big man he has slow feet and wouldn't contribute much to a pass rush. Which isn't what we generally ask Edwards to do so this might be a good value pick as a trade down or steal in the second round.
Terrence Cody, Alabama: Mt. Cody is a gamble. Defensive lineman are notorious for being big busts, (Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii.) He is absolutely huge, plays with a low center of gravity and is athletic for his size. But he is also a two down player, weak for his size, lazy and academically challenged. Could Haley be the disciplinarian that Saban was for him in Alabama? Maybe. Maybe not. If he gets leaner and stronger he could be and absolute monster. If not, he's be just another D-lineman bust for KC.
Would Cody or Williams be a reach as the fifth pick of the draft? Probably. But Pioli has taken need over talent before, (Tyson Jackson.) If Eric Berry is off the board by time we pick and we can't trade down, I think we maybe draft another SEC defensive lineman and look for an ILB and O-linemen in the second round.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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If our biggest need is players on both D and O lines...
Why then would we want to draft a safety first? Kind of defeats the point of your post.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Berry is staying for his senior year.
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:15 PM CST reply actions
doubt it
he delayed his announcement until after the Bowl game, which to me indicates he is leaving, but doesn’t want to distract his team until the season is over
I think he is going pro
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I think he really wants to play one more year for Kiffin to help get the program
Back to where it was. I think he is also waiting for more mocks and to see where he is likely to en d up it may be he wants to go to a certain team. Right now i’m about 60-40 to him staying in school.
I'd lose almost all my faith in Pioli
If we picked one of those two at #5 overall. That’s a gigantic reach. If Berry is gone, I’d be cool with us reaching for McClain at #5 or taking Okung. If we fail to land a NT in free agency, we have to hope that Cody or Williams falls to us in round 2 and if not, we’ll have to grin and bear it for another season.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 2:20 PM CST reply actions
I'd go McClain also......
I think there are a couple of other NT hopefuls in college besides these two…….Boo Robinson maybe?
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Is he big enough?
I see him listed as under 300 on NFL Draft Countdown
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
Is it coincidence that the LB for whom you lust plays behind Terrence Cody?
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
good point
we could be loving Mays if a stud NT is there?
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I've seen him make some mistakes,
but I think he’s quicker and smarter than folks currently give him credit for. Cut his decision tree in half with better supporting cast, and we have a LB who can penetrate for the neat TFL on the stretch play. Just increase the proportion of situations that are more clear-cut for this kid, and let him keep learning the game for another year, and we’ll likely be surprised.
But almost EVERY time I hear someone praising a LB’s coverage skills, it’s on a team that’s getting great pressure and the LB wasn’t so much a great coverage guy as he was the beneficiary of an ill-advised or poorly-thrown pass, and all HE did was get a decent drop into his zone.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Mills we are running out of draftable players :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
And anyone reading my comments as of late knows that I am all for fortifying the middle of the field (NT, ILB, S). I agree with your desire for a dominate NT, especially after the way the Browns ran the ball right over us. Let’s assume we end up with the 4th pick. My preference is Berry, but let’s again assume he’s gone. And let’s assume we can’t trade down (it appears to be a deep draft and highly unlikely).
If these are the circumstances I would rather use this 4th pick on McClain because he has a tremendous skill set, is experienced in the 3-4, and has shown leadership on the field. I think Cody would be an asset, but he wouldn’t have the same impact as McClain all around, and he would not be on the field nearly as much.
We could then possibly still get Cody or another big NT in the 2nd (Williams, Robinson, etc.) to take up blockers, and make Mays (I agree with you Stags), McClain, and the rest of our LBs look that much better shooting the gaps now available and wreaking havoc with a much improved pass rush by default.
On top of that, McClain is good in coverage so now the middle zone that has been the playground for many an opposing TE this year would be in better hands.
IMHO, at the 4th or 5th pick: McClain > NT……
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
Remember Ryan Sims?
His reputation was built on the back of Julius Peppers. Man-love for McClain might just be displaced affection for Cody.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
KC Joyner scouted 4 of Cody's games this year
And Cody only played 43.4% of the defensive snaps. I’m sure McClain gets help from Cody, but nearly 60% of the time, McClain is doing it without him
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
And KC runs a funky 4-3 or 2-5 thingie in passing situations, also.
If Cody’s on the field, and is instrumental in setting up 3rd-and-long on a consistent basis, what difference does it make? On 3rd-and-long, the LBs get to pin their ears back. That’s what we’re saying a true NT does for our ILBs. What I’m saying is beware valuing the player you value so highly, if his success likely flows from a player you value less.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Word. Because we need to shut down the run.
And make teams beat us passing. I trust the Brandons, they just need some extra help.
We should just draft players name Brandon, or Branden
Works well for us :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
BRILLIANT1111!!!11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I lean in that direction, as well.
What I doubt is whether KC can run ANYthing but soft zone behind the blitz against multiple-WR sets. They’re still short at least one guy who can come up and press when they really want to bring it.
That soft middle we’ve all been bitchin’ about is mostly caused, imo, by an inability to deploy the defensive backs as aggressively as we want to attack the backfield. You force the hot read to be thrown, but have nobody in close to jump that hot route. Blame it on the LBs, if you want, but playing the corners 8 or 10 yards off the ball and/or giving free release to TE and slot receiver because of your passivity, and you’re GOING to have problems in the short- to medium-range. Chiefs are still worrying about being beaten down the field for the TD when they bring heat, and so their personnel set them up for failure, time and time again, and this ain’t on the LBs.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
yep...
the NT often comes off the field on 3rd down anyway, so the “2 down” problem doesn’t scare me much
the conditioning issue is a bigger one w/ Cody
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Yes
Conditioning is huge with this guy. If he’s a 2 down guy then he would be on the field closer to 67% of the time, but the fact that it was closer to 40% tells me he’s off the field because he’s tired.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
If he's taken by the Chiefs,
it means they’ve thoroughly vetted him, and they are confident that he WILL participate in OTAs and be in the best condition of his life before he ever takes the field. Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see them take him and to see him playing at a “mere” 320.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I would be great with that
2nd round though. Are you thinking possibly 1st?
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
He will not be around for the second to much upside not to go in the first
wether he becomes a bust or astud to many big plays in college to fall past the first rd.
I've read some mocks that show Williams still sitting there in the early 2nd.
Williams and Cody are the two currently named (rightly or wrongly) as nearly sure-thing long-term NTs in the NFL.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I think Boo Robinson will be better than both
and you can hold me to it. He is a stud and is what hs made Wake Forest D click. Although Seatle might jump early to get him so him and Curry can team up again.
Boo can play his ass off
Not sure his frame can hold the extra 20lbs he’ll need to play NFL NT. If it can…he’ll be a stud.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
Right there's where he leaves the realm of probability as a Chief.
Do NOT expect them to bring in somebody they want to add weight to play bigger. If anything, they’ll want a guy playing lighter.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
We can shut down the run with a great
“3 down” ILB from round 1, and a big ole “2 down” NT from round 2…
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
- is extremely high for a ILB, but what are our other options? I only see Okung or Campbell, which I would be okay with but on the other hand, our O-line is impoving every week.
It just seems like we need to take BPA up the middle with this pick.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't realize
everyone on here wanted to take a NT with the top 5 pick?! I agree ILB at #5 is high, but NT? I can’t see it.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
I certainly don't want NT with number 5
I hope I’m not giving that impression. I feel like McClain is the top up the middle player that is going to be left (assuming Berry is gone) and that is who I want. Although I wouldn’t be too upset if we went with Okung or Campbell
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying Cody at #5, either.
But when it comes to championship football, I want me some Charles Haley before MLB. Heck, I want Russell Maryland before MLB. I want Richard Dent before I want Mike Singletary, although the greatness of the latter is beyond dispute.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I think Pioli will go Cody
I would go Mays yes that is a Safety with #5 I see all these as being a good option as the #5 pick
LT Okung/Campbell moves Albert to LG or RT
DT Suh will be gone so McClain I see as a bust talent around him makes him appear better ala Sims. So Cody only 1st rd option and should go pick 15-20 just like Jackson last year who actually was ranked 27th best player so its not unlickly Pioli would take Cody. I would rather get Boo Robinson in the 3rd I just think he will be a beast, but I also wanted Ellis over Dorsey, and would of got Curry last year.
WR ,OLB and ILB have options.
I would simply go BPA if I was a part of the staff witch could be alot of players.
I can see Pioli going Cody
but I don’t see McClain being a bust. The guy is all over the field making plays. He leads the defense and has shown that he has a good understanding of the 3-4 scheme. There are plenty of players with talent all around them. It is in the realm of possibility that they are making the surrounding players appear better and not the other way around.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
curry was #4 last year
McClain is every bit the player Curry was, but he’s a BETTER fit for the 3-4 than Curry.
Mayo was #7, right?
Willis ?
it’s not that crazy
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Exactly right
we can go with the LB at 5, and get an upgrade at NT in the 2nd round no problem.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Sold!
But remember Pioli passed on Curry at #3.
I’m all for it and I want to do it, but I can see the other side, ILB just doesn’t hold the positional value of a LT or DE or QB. But we don’t need those IMO
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
But you are absolutely right
About McClain being better suited for 3-4.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
and probably our best bet at #4
with no Berry available
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Basically 3 guys I wouldn't mind seeing with the 1st pick.
Berry, Okung, or Suh. Berry’’s closer to ideal, imo, but Okung or Suh, while not strictly needed, are the closest thing to value up around #4 or #5 (Still hoping for a win or two, sort of).
I’d feel better about team-building if KC could trade out of the top 5, as would most, here. As highly as I value shutdown corners, and great DBs in general, ALL our guys look better with upgrades at NT and C, and neither of these is necessarily 1st-round material.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
With that being said
ALL our guys look better with upgrades at NT and C, and neither of these is necessarily 1st-round material.
how can you not see the logic in my arguing that if no Berry (doubtful Suh fall that far) then we should go with McClain in the first round?! You will still have the NT upgrade you so desire…….I would be happy as well to have a new NT.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
I like it I just see alot of talent at ILB in this draft that could be had
In the later rds. I also see good NT prospects comming out of Later rds. The position I go is is either Mays, Tate, Bryant or Berry if he comes out. People are like Tate with the #5 pick just wait and see how much his stock jumps when off season workouts start he will more than likely be the first WR off the board. Speed Hands Playmaking ability Brains Tate is a total package and would help our team alot and fills a major hole. OL,NT,LB, can all be filled later with players who grade out at the top. So the positions we need with the least amount of talent to be had, or atleast the least amount of NFL locks are RB, WR, so I see us ptentially going WR but there is no way to tell what Pioli is going to do, but I know he would love to get Tate as a lock for WR and get the taste of the Bethell Johnson pick out of his mouth.
It would not surprise me to see Mathews or Dixon with the #5 pick
The options are many and really good option s at that.
I would actually be happy with ANY of the following at #5
Berry
Mays
Cody
McClain LB Alabama
Tate
Bryant
Mathews RB Fresno
Dixon
Okung
Campbell
This years draft is deep.
Mathews and
Dixon are both 2nd to 3rd round prospects. Why would we take one wth the 5th overall pick?
Also, maybe Jamaal Charles shouldn’t be a feature back to keep him healthy and prolong his career, but is a complimentary RB a top priority?
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 22, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
RBs who say good things about others are VERY valuable!
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I don't understand
your comment. Are you saying a RB with the #5 pick is a good thing for this team given our needs?
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 22, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
Top 5 RB is a bad idea
for any team in any situation. For every LT or Barry Sanders, there are half a dozen Ki-Jana Carters.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
No. I'm just being a picky asshole:
You meant “complementary” RB, which means an extra RB, in addition to, etc. For instance “The King and his royal complement.”
You wrote “compliment,” which is a nice thing one says about someone or something.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
2 RBs is a priority 3 is probably most effective.
Look at all the past SB teams and tell me of two that did not have a good complimentary back or 1-2 punch. That means name the starter and thier Back up.
Yes I’m am saying when Charles comes off the field the guy that goes on needs too be visibly as good that means ability to exploit the comp with almost the same amount of success.
Do I take the RB at 5 no at this point I would go.
1st rd OT Campbell
2nd WR Tate/Bryant/Barnes
2nd S Mays/Rolle/Wright
3rd NT/ILB/OLB Boo Robinson +/Norwood/ Selvie/Johnson/Cunningham/Lane
4th ILB/OLB Johnson/Cunningham/Lang
5th NT Terrell Troup/Oghobaase/ Neal/Ross/Deaderik/Thomas
5th WR Ford/Alexander/Price, Ohio/Holliday/Banks any of those players.
5th RB Chris Brown/ Lewis, Ball St/ Toston Coker, Hampton/
Ideal line up
LT Campbell
LG Albert
C Waters
RG ?
RT O’Call
HB Charles
Brown
?
FB Cox ?
WR Bowe
Chambers
Tate
Alexander
Darling ?
TE Pope
? Cottams injury
? Fill in FA
DE Dorsey
Jackson
Magee
Gilberry
NT Troup/Robinson
Robinson/Troup
OLB Hali
Studebaker
ILB DJ/Vrabel
Williams should be traded. could use another 3rd rd pick for another ILB/OLB.
ILB Johnson/Cunningham
Mays
OLB Cunningham/Studebaker
Vrabel
CB Flowers
Carr
?
Daniels
Washington
FS Brown/Page or ?/Page/Brown
SS Rolle/McGraw
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Depth chart assuming
rd 1 Campbell OT
2 Tate WR
2 Rolle S
3 Boo Robinson NT
3/4 in trade for williams, we get Cunningham OLB
4 Johnson ILB
5 Troup NT
5 Alexander WR
5 Chris Brown RB
Off of previous comments
We countinue to build the O-Line through trades and FA.
Yep
NT will be a High risk project outside of a FA which has its own risk. Don’t slack on the Poucey twins picks 2b and 5a would be cheap IMO
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about! Recommended.
The HELL with FanPosts that oughta be FanShots! I love seeing a comment that’d hold up as a FanPost!
With a big dash of salt thrown in, on account of o-line, about the only two backs I saw run with any authority this year were Charles and Savage. Both seem prone to nicks, but neither has had many opportunities to get to the second level intact, and only one has thrived under the adverse conditions. I really do think that the Chiefs want to, once and for all, make a decision on Battle. Exceptionally quick for a guy his size, but can he survive? Can he lead-block? Can he do anything but suck in pass-protection? Seems like he’s worthless without the ball, and unable to keep himself in one piece.
Don’t know that I agree with everything you did 100%, but it looks fairly fresh and quite sane.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I agree
a 1-2 punch at RB is the way the best running teams in the league are operating. However, I don’t think any of the backs in this years draft warrant a #5 pick especially considering the team needs for starters, not depth.
I personally would love to see another speed back similar to Charles to share the load. Great call on Coker in the 5th. If Jahvid Best comes out, he might slide due to health concerns and be a great value in the 2nd or beyond.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 23, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Revisiting this thread after a night's rest...
After all the talk about NEEDING RB, he didn’t say pick RB #5, did he?
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Well here is the original comment...
You tell me…
I would actually be happy with ANY of the following at #5 Berry
Mays
Cody
McClain LB Alabama
Tate
Bryant
Mathews RB Fresno
Dixon
Okung
Campbell
This years draft is deep.
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 23, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
We're in the responses to kcchiefstd whose comment reads like THIS:
Do I take the RB at 5 no at this point I would go.
1st rd OT Campbell
2nd WR Tate/Bryant/Barnes
2nd S Mays/Rolle/Wright
3rd NT/ILB/OLB Boo Robinson +/Norwood/ Selvie/Johnson/Cunningham/Lane
4th ILB/OLB Johnson/Cunningham/Lang
5th NT Terrell Troup/Oghobaase/ Neal/Ross/Deaderik/Thomas
5th WR Ford/Alexander/Price, Ohio/Holliday/Banks any of those players.
5th RB Chris Brown/ Lewis, Ball St/ Toston Coker, Hampton/
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Here
It would not surprise me to see Mathews or Dixon with the #5 pick The options are many and really good option s at that.
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is 1 comment referencing a RB at #5, as both Ryan Mathews, Fresno St. and Anthony Dixon, Mississippi St are running backs.
I would actually be happy with ANY of the following at #5 Berry
Mays
Cody
McClain LB Alabama
Tate
Bryant
Mathews RB Fresno
Dixon
Okung
Campbell
This years draft is deep.
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes 2 comments referencing a RB at #5.
Below is my reply to kcchiefstd comment from 6:01 PM CST.
Mathews and Dixon are both 2nd to 3rd round prospects. Why would we take one wth the 5th overall pick?
Also, maybe Jamaal Charles shouldn’t be a feature back to keep him healthy and prolong his career, but is a complimentary RB a top priority?
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 22, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Note the text that I have bolded in my comment, as it is relevent.
This is when you entered the conversation with your smart ass comment about “complimentary vs. complementary”. Is this a football blog or a spelling and grammar class. kcchiefstd replied to my comment at 10:30 PM CST as follows,
2 RBs is a priority 3 is probably most effective. Look at all the past SB teams and tell me of two that did not have a good complimentary back or 1-2 punch. That means name the starter and thier Back up.
Yes I’m am saying when Charles comes off the field the guy that goes on needs too be visibly as good that means ability to exploit the comp with almost the same amount of success.
Do I take the RB at 5 no at this point I would go.
1st rd OT Campbell
2nd WR Tate/Bryant/Barnes
2nd S Mays/Rolle/Wright
3rd NT/ILB/OLB Boo Robinson +/Norwood/ Selvie/Johnson/Cunningham/Lane
4th ILB/OLB Johnson/Cunningham/Lang
5th NT Terrell Troup/Oghobaase/ Neal/Ross/Deaderik/Thomas
5th WR Ford/Alexander/Price, Ohio/Holliday/Banks any of those players.
5th RB Chris Brown/ Lewis, Ball St/ Toston Coker, Hampton/
Ideal line up
LT Campbell
LG Albert
C Waters
RG ?
RT O’Call
HB Charles
Brown
?
FB Cox ?
WR Bowe
Chambers
Tate
Alexander
Darling ?
TE Pope
? Cottams injury
? Fill in FA
DE Dorsey
Jackson
Magee
Gilberry
NT Troup/Robinson
Robinson/Troup
OLB Hali
Studebaker
ILB DJ/Vrabel
Williams should be traded. could use another 3rd rd pick for another ILB/OLB.
ILB Johnson/Cunningham
Mays
OLB Cunningham/Studebaker
Vrabel
CB Flowers
Carr
?
Daniels
Washington
FS Brown/Page or ?/Page/Brown
SS Rolle/McGraw
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There is a difference between “top priority and priority” right?
Then at 10:57 PM CST kcchiefstd comments the following,
Although I would not complain if CJ Spiller was drafted with the first pick and another LB in the 5th
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes 3 comments referencing a RB with the #5 pick.
Then I replied to his 10:30 PM CST comment,
I agree a 1-2 punch at RB is the way the best running teams in the league are operating. However, I don’t think any of the backs in this years draft warrant a #5 pick especially considering the team needs for starters, not depth.
I personally would love to see another speed back similar to Charles to share the load. Great call on Coker in the 5th. If Jahvid Best comes out, he might slide due to health concerns and be a great value in the 2nd or beyond.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 23, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you replied to my above comment as follows,
Revisiting this thread after a night’s rest… After all the talk about NEEDING RB, he didn’t say pick RB #5, did he?
Prediction for ‘09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver’s inattention to D-Line, Chokeland’s disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it’s on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
by hmills110 on Dec 23, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, I attempted to reply in a shorter form, but you couldn’t follow that. Therefore, I’ve made the conversation between kcchiefstd and myself as easy to follow as possible, by listing comments in order above. kcchiefstd refered to taking a RB with the #5 pick in 3 separate comments.
I’m not putting words in anyone’s mouth here.
Not sure, what the hell I’ve done to tick you off other than my BLATANT misuse of the word complimentary vs. complementary, but I don’t appreciate you trying to make it out like I’m putting words in someone’s mouth or picking on anyone. Because, I am not.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 24, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
I think you take yourself too seriously, chris.
I was following the nesting of the responses, and yours was inside the subthread following the mock draft that stated “No RB in the 1st,” and I was OK with that, whereas you seemed to be disputing kcchiefstd on that point.
If you’d lighten up, you’d see that you and I are agreeing on “No RB in the 1st.”
This isn’t a pissin’ contest. So quit bein’ all pissy.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
And I ain't sayin' I even agree with everything there, but no RB in 1st, far as I can see.
Perhaps you’re replying to another comment, and things are just too big and unmanageable.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Here's another....
Although I would not complain if CJ Spiller was drafted with the first pick and another LB in the 5th
by kcchiefstd on Dec 22, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FYI, CJ Spiller is a RB, and our “first pick” for this conversation was projected to be the #5 overall pick.
BTW, in the original comment both Mathews and Dixon are RBs.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 23, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Might be the way to look with the draft this year
What you really want and need are thin at the top. Grab some quality guys early and reach for quantity in a postition or two in the later rounds and in the UDFA market.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Hail2DaChiefs
I’d be disappointed if they went LB that high. Doesn’t fit with my personal long-term vision of perennial contender. If they DO go that high (a disappointment) and they’re serious about long-term, there’s no way the guy sticks beyond his first contract, because it just doesn’t make sense to pay LBs that much, when you look at the size of the plenty-good talent pool at that position, compared to the talent pool at others.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
"because it just doesn’t make sense to pay LBs that much"
This is the best arguement for not drafting an ILB in the top 5.
You’re right that we shouldn’t use our top 5 pick on an ILB.
You’re wrong over and over when you say that Mays and Williams are fine if we upgrade NT. ;)
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
I've been wrong over and over, before.
I’ve been right over and over when everyone else thought otherwise, too.
I’m basically not 1st-round material.
I’ve just seen too many QBs/RBs/LBs get undeservedly high/low grades, based on d-line and secondary issues that put them in bad situations. When the situation is bad, you see obvious breakdowns in fundamentals in your LBs (who SUCkED against Cleveland). But I also saw GAPING holes in the front 3 all day long, and mistakes tend to proliferate when there’s no comfort zone. My rule: Create comfort zone. Re-evaluate those enjoying the zone.
So if you’ve a 100% certain “poor” grade on Mays and Williams, I respect it, but I remain a skeptic until other HUGE factors are eliminated from the equation.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I'm with mills here
Mays, Williams, DJ and Belcher could be a serviceable ILB corps IF they had a dominant DL in front of them and dominant DBs behind them
Mays can stop the run and get to the passer… but he just gets swalllowed up by blocks… get a NT to take a double/triple team and keep those blockers off of him… you might be surprised what he can do.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Thx, stagdsp, but I'm not endorsing the current LB corps.
They did the “churning the roster” thing on OL and WR last offseason. I look for something more direct at those position groups this offseason (although I think they’re set for depth and PROBABLY have starting G already in-house), and for a really large number of LBs to be in OTAs and training camp, plus a 3rd or 4th or 5th at LB.
The thing about the 3-4 is that it’s supposed to be LB-friendly. Without the nose being addressed, ANY shortcomings at LB were magnified, especially to the eye of fans used to watching the likes of Donnie Edwards skying for the INT.
Main reason I get into these debates about LB is because I feel so strongly about needing Ferrari LBs when other parts of the team aren’t in place, and it’s like giving aspirin to a guy whose headaches are caused by a brain tumor.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
In addition to my comments on Mays and Williams below
DJ’s production does not warrant his pay. I’d keep him as a nickle LB at a reduced rate. But that’s it.
Belcher I like. The kid has major upside. I’d just much rather make him pry a starting position away from someone than hand it to him and hope.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
Here we can agree.
I’d be deeply disappointed if KC stood still at LB. Hell, I’d be SHOCKED. Pioli’s NEVER one to believe he’s EVER set at ANY position. Sure, he has his hopes, but even last year’s Pro Bowl player needs to be evaluated and young players brought up to challenge him, year in and year out.
DJ currently has 1st-rounder contract, no? Prob’ly a mistake to draft that shiny LB in 1st, you think? I think it’s unlikely that Pioli’s and his opinions of DJ’s worth are aligned.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I'd kill to know
Where DJ was on the Pats board.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'm 100%
That Williams is a below average starting NFL linebacker. I’ve seen him in multiple schemes on 2 different teams. I was furious when we wigned him. He’ll make a very good backup. But not good enough to start for the D I want.
Mays has some talent and as I’ve said before, I love his effort. He could develop into an average NFl starter. There are some serious flaws in his game tho and I have seen zero improvement over the course of the season.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
WTF is wigned?
signed*
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
In addition,
I would say that I’m not happy sitting still on LB. I just think that this position group is the most likely to be improved with more modest investments and casting a wider net.
Steve and I have talked about this and he uses the “scatter gun versus the sharpshooter” metaphor. The stakes are much higher when you’re talking the widebodies. Too easy to look at a large number of fair prospects and come up with NONE who are good enough. There’s more urgency about being RIGHT (or at least not going wrong). At LB, the odds of a scattergun approach turning up something of real value is much higher.
Same for interior lineman on OL. Same for RB. (This is me talking, not Steve). Widebodies who can play in this league are in very short supply. Also, among THOSE, the ones who can dominate the others are as rare as rhenium. The difficult task is to find the rare-as-rhenium lineman, and then finding LBs who can prosper behind them is a mid-round and even UDFA proposition.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Thank God
It isn’t our paygrade to find that Widebody. 11 teams are looking for a 3-4 NT currently. There are two prospects. Cody and Williams are gone by pick 20 IMO.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
11?
I think it’s more like 7. And 3 of those teams will get one in FA. (Either by retaining, promoting or signing)
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
Basing on the 11 3-4 D teams at present
might explain Buffalo? scrapping the 3-4 mid-season
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
I believe there's 12 teams that run it
Just saying that only half of thsoe might be willing to consider a NT in the 1st. Your GBs, NEs etc already have the position covered.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
That takes it down to 9 from Steve's initial number.
Do you think Buffalo goes back to 3-4, when they’ve much more serious needs? Is Buffalo the kind of a team that spends a 1st-rounder on NT? So the number’s down to 8, right there, if my reasoning’s sound.
But that 11’s a good starting number, and thx for the info, Steve.
Thx for the elaboration, Satchmo.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
was it Buffalo or Jax
that scrapped the 3-4 midseason.
I’m pretty sure it was Jacksonville, unless Buffalo did it too
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Can't remember, specifically.
If I were asked to guess, I’d say I thought Buffalo was 4-3 and Jax was 3-4.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
So, yeah. Buff's 3-4 and Jax's 4-3. heh.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
looks like buffalo currently runs a 4-3
http://www.buffalonews.com/298/story/899860.html
If the Bills switch to a 3-4 next year, expect a rocky transition. Green Bay switched to the 3-4 this year and ranks No. 2 on defense. But the Packers already had a strong core of front-seven players. Kansas City switched to the 3-4 this year and ranks 30th overall. The Chiefs have Bills castoff Ron Edwards playing nose tackle, and it’s not pretty.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I thought the Bills this year looked close
to being set on D, myself. I watched their first meeting with the Patriots, and they gave NE all they could handle. What’s missing in Buffalo is OL. Lost their best guy, and haven’t found a replacement, let alone a real upgrade to the ’08 line that sucked even WITH the guy they lost to Philly.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
jax switched to a 4-3
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2009/11/12/1126820/ten-things-ill-be-looking-to-see
. Stay with the 4-3
We tried out the 3-4 for awhile. Things weren’t going so well but she still had a sense of mystery to her. However, it’s time to admit it just won’t work out. Unless the Jaguars are down to only 3 defensive linemen then the 4-3 is what we should see from here on out.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Thx for BUF and JAX links.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
No jax is right
I knew we played them and they scrapped it prior to the Chiefs game and screwed up all the prep work thanks Stag
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I took the number down to 7 with Pickett signing somewhere.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
See stagdsp's further analysis, above (I think)
He narrowed it down to KC-vs-DEN.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
No, his comment's below.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Now what about PIT?
Do they have a young stud waiting in the wings, or not?
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Pitt always has a guy in the wings.
They’ve been developing Chris Hoke for a few years now and just gave him the contract extension they refused to give Hampton. I do count them as a team that could possibly draft a 1st round NT tho.
They’re a BPA team. It doesn’t appear they consider it a huge need…
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
off the top of my head
NE, Pitt, Dallas, GB, SF, SD, NYJ, CLE, Balt (when healthy)-have NT covered
KC, Denver, could be looking for one
Oak, Tam, StL, Indy, NO, Jac, Atl, Hou, Ten, ARI, DET, Cin, SEA, PHI, Car, NYG, Minn, Chi, Was all run some version of the 4-3 or “other” defense
not sure about Miami, Buffalo,
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Suddenly the 2nd looks probable for one of the top 2 NT prospects.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I think so.
and if you assume that Denver and KC might both be after Wilfork…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
That brings me back to my easiest, laziest scenario.
Wilfork in FA. Williams with 2a pick. C with the 2b pick (and possibly a FA). BPA in 1st, hopefully Berry, but Okung or Suh, otherwise. If all three fall through, then I’m at something of a loss, and cringe at the ILB thing.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Wilfork is the Key to this whole thing
signing him opens up all kinds of options in the draft
you can focus on WR, RB, TE, DB, OLB, and OF COURSE OL
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Now
I do agree with you 100% here…..I understand you and Mills’ argument for a DL. I guess we are for the same goal on D, we would just take different paths to get there…..Now if we had Wilfork the draft would really get interesting.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
As I do yours.
I’m just tired, as a fan, of all the attention one guy gets, when it’s the quiet contribution of no-names that gave him his platform. I see the teams that “get it,” by my lights, creating perennial contenders, and other teams, doing the kinds of things most think they SHOULD do, ending up middle-of-the-pack, year in and year out.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I'm not sure KC and Denver are alone in the NT hunt...
San Diego – Jamal Williams is 33, injured and his contract expires after next year. They might be picking fairly late, and could consider one of the 2 NTs a value pick.
Miami – Jason Ferguson is 34 and a FA this offseason. Their backup, Soliai, is a servicable backup, but not dominant. They should be picking in the mid to late teens, and could take the top NT on their board.
Pittsburgh – Casey Hampton is 31 and a FA this offseason. The backup, Chris Hoke, is 33 and a FA after next season. They could be looking NT in the 1st if they are picking mid to late teens.
Also, I don’t think just because a team is running a 4-3 they wouldn’t be interested in Dan Williams or even Terrence Cody to play a run stuffer role similar to Pat Williams in Minnesota, who is 36 btw.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 22, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Thx for the analysis.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
NY Jets too
Kris Jenkins is getting older, and is injured. Though I think they’ll probably take a WR in the 1st round.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Maybe so. And thx for the analysis. (FanShot elaborates on this?)
Having so much fun, here, I still haven’t gone to look at it.
If you think they’re gone that quickly, maybe Pioli does another (shudder) reach? He definitely is willing (and able) to go top-shelf for defensive trenches.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Mills
I understand your logic as far as the NT is concerned. The position is what makes the 3-4 work. I think we all agree that the middle of the defense needs to be addressed, but we cannot agree with the road to getting there.
I’ve seen us use high draft picks on D-line only to wait for those players to develop. If we went your route, I would not be disappointed (if that NT came in and immediately made our LB corps look a lot better than I’ve seen thus far).
My beliefs aside, I would like to field a more respectable defense next year. However they do it, as long as that can be accomplished I will be satisfied.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm less interested in the short term than in the long term.
If that means making a short-term sacrifice and waiting for a NT to develop, I’ll roll with it, provided the NT is a perennial monster in the middle. No reaches for upside, if the downside is significant.
I’m interested in seeing a better season in 2010, but not at the expense of 2011 and beyond. My best hope is to land a ready-to-start FA AND a stud in the 2nd. But I’m with Steve_Chiefs on this: If not Williams or Cody, might as well wait ’til the 4th.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I think our ultimate goal
is a more similar than you realize. I want nothing to do with sacrificing the long term success of our team. What I do want is to fortify the middle of our defense with players young enough to be in it for the long haul. At the end of the debate, I don’t care how they do it as long as steps are made in that direction as the top priority this offseason…
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
Excellent Point. This is the discusssion I was looking for.
I think most of us realists want defense over offense. But ILB isn’t traditionally a position selected in the first round unless they are an elite talent. (Like Urlacher or Ray Lewis).
If we decide not to go NT, (which may be the right call given the talent available) is the better bet to get Okung, slide Albert to G and go after an ILB, NT, C, S in rounds 2-4?
And Ray-Ray struggled when Siragusa retired.
Regained his previous dominance when Baltimore secured another NT.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I see your point
But I wouldn’t pass on Ray Lewis just because I didn’t have a NT yet.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
But Ray-Ray's exceptional, AND most of his career has been played behind dominant NT.
And in hindsight, neither would I. But NT would be my first priority. And before the fact, I set the table and THEN go ILB. They’re really not that rare in terms of body type and skill set, compared to some of the other positions.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Chicken or the egg
Maybe some great NT look good because of good LB or S play? If you are advocating that we use a top 5 pick on NT as opposed to ILB, then I will gladly agree to disagree. Everybody here seems to think that the sole purpose of the NT is to take up blockers……If that’s the case then get a big guy that is strong that takes up blockers. That can be done in the second round.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Agree. But it ain't either/or.
I don’t see a top 5 being worth spending on EITHER position.
But I have a slight issue with “A big guy that takes up blockers” is somehow worth less than another player. Certainly you’re more likely to find such farther down in the draft, simply because so few place much value on them. But maybe that’s part of the reason that teams like PIT and NWE win championships, be damned what anybody else thinks, and why most of the rest, following long-held beliefs, return to the well for their high-dollar LBs, RBs and QBs, only to fall short.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
see: Oakland Raiders
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
C'mon Kray
I guess I don’t post enough but I’ve been around for awhile. I actually know PA too, we met at the Village Pour House in NYC when I lived there.
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'll tell you what....
…I almost would rather call up Mr. Hoodie and offer our 1st pick for a freshly tagged Wilfork and maybe a later round pick. That way we gain the NT we desperatly need, snag another pick and save a bag o’ cash. Hoodie then takes the player I think he would make the move for, Berry. NE is in need of a really good DB weather it be at CB or Safety.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
No way!
Wilfork is good, but he’s a big NT in his late 20s…who will probably start having injury problems in a few years. Maybe a trade for the Atlanta pick in the 2nd round, but not the 1st rounder.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Why not?
Wilfork would be an imediate impact on our defensive unit. He would be a proven player acquired with a high pick that would be a total unknown and a bank breaker. Plus I mentioned picking up another later round pick, I meant a 2nd or 3rd. That would give us an imediate impact starter, a 2nd or 3rd and the money would go to Wilfork instead of a possible bust pick. Look how people are reacting to Tyson Jackson not being an all-pro already. Not to mention alot of people want us to sign Wilfork as a free agent so we would be opening up more room to sign a few other proven free agents.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
If they gave us a 2nd, then maybe
It would just concern me because of the injury risk. It seems like most of those big guys start having knee problems once they pass 30, and I’d hate to invest both the draft choice and the money in a guy who is likely to only have 2-4 good years left in him. But I do understand your point.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Right I was saying I would ALMOST want to, not that I would...
…You make good points on the injury issue. I have been beaten down by all this draft talk lately. I love it but I hate it…. kinda like fantasy football.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
yeah, me too
what’s bad is that it’s such a big topic (for myself included) and the season isn’t even over yet. What are we going to do for the 4 months between the end of the year & the draft!?!?!
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Things that make sense now.
Dorsey is a major part of our D and goes nowhere. Williams nor Mays is the answer at ILB. Our project players on the O-Line are improving and can play. We really need another Starting WR. Pull the double teams off of Bowe and this offense becomes very explosive. RB is a must wether we are going after a starter quality back or a consistant #2. Cottam and Pope even with the drops have improved and look like we could run with them next year. It still seams that this coaching staff has faith in Niswanger even though fans don’t. Safety has to be upgraded.
So
NT prospects I like are Cody, Williams or Boo Robinson. and late option Terrell Troupe.
WR Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Denario Alexander, Lafell, or Barnes. Lots of options there.
RB Mathews, Dixon, Gerhart.
ILB McClain, or MANY other options can get LBs late in the draft. McClain could be Urlacker quality.
S Berry, Mays, Rolle I really want one of those three and maybe two of them.
I see 1st rd options as Berry, Mays, McClain, Cody, Bryant or Tate as I think Tate keeps climbing in workouts and will be one of the first two WRs taken with comparison to Steve Smith.
2nd rd options are Williams, Rolle, Mathews, Dixon, or Gerhart witch ever one is left in the second. Alexander, Lafell, OLB, ILB are also option in the 2nd.
3rd Boo Robinson should go in the third. Rolle could last this long but not probable. Maybe Williams can get us an extra 2nd to third rd pick I love Williams but he just does not fit the 3/4 very well.
We have alot of options in the first three rds that could really upgrade our team. I do not see us trading down or up but maybe getting a couple picks for good players on our roster that just don’t fit what we are trying to do.
Hell lets trade Matt Cassel for Tyler Thigpen ohhhh yeah!
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:41 PM CST reply actions
Casey Hampton
Not sure why people always say he’ll likely stay in Pitt. Again, he wanted a contract extension. Pitt refused. Hampton says he’ll test the market. Dude is gunna land somewhere. Here’s Hampton’s quote…again:
"Yeah, it’s coming down to that," Hampton said. "If they don’t do contracts during the season, then that’ll make me a free agent. If I get to free agency, man, I mean everybody knows what it is. So I don’t need to say something about that. If they let me get to free agency, everybody knows what it’s going to be, so there’s no need to even talk about it."
I’d rather have Pickett, but Hampton is a very nice fallback position. He’s still playing at a very high level and could fill this need for 2-3 years which gives us time to find a replacement.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 2:41 PM CST reply actions
I agree but I say a 1-2 year deal.
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Hampton is saying he is going to the highest bidder
That will not be the Chiefs period.
Pickett might be an option but again it will take $ to get him and not likely to happen. I really don’t see us putting up the dollars to get a top notch NT in FA its just not like the Chiefs to do that and Pioli LOVES drafting him some D-Lineman, I mean he even drafted them early when NE had other needs so there it is.
I'm not so sure KC won't be the highest bidder
He’s not going to get Haynesworth money from anyone, so the highest bid probably won’t have to be outrageous. Plus, I’m pretty sure Pioli wants to put a competitive team on the field next season.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I agree...
I think Pioli will be trying to fill the NT position with either a FA or even a trade prior to the draft.
Below is text copied and pasted from an article about the Kris Jenkins trade and his contract. I think Hampton would be in the same general $/yr, but get a 2-3 yr deal like KC Satchmo said above. A trade similar to the one below for Wilfork, would great too. I don’t think NE will let Wilfork go without getting some value for him, but might Franchise him and trade him if Brace is working out.
The Jets and Panthers have finalized a trade for DT Kris Jenkins.
In return for Jenkins, a three-time Pro Bowl selection, the Jets will ship third- and fifth-round picks to Carolina.
As a pre-requisite in the trade, the Jets agreed to give Jenkins a new contract. And that new contract is a five-year, $35 million deal, including about $20 million in bonuses and guarantees.
by chrisclark_dfw on Dec 23, 2009 2:11 AM CST up reply actions
Not saying we'll sign him
Just trying to correct this notion that he’s going back to Pitt. I’d love to have him tho…
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Suh=Bust
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
No. Oh. You mean the OTHER other Patrick Allen.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Not a bust
but not a NT either
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
;)
Thanks. You and I have been fighting this battle for a couple of weeks haven’t we?
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I agree to he will be 4/3 DT looking at what team is going to get him
But otherwise he is 3/4 DE. That is where he fits best and will play.
Yup
He’d need to gain a good 30 to 40 lbs (since he said himself, his playing weight is 291) to play NT effectively. If you put that weight on him then you impact his natural speed and explosiveness. STOP THE MADNESS!
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I agree 100%...
….Suh was a hyped player when he came to NU. For the first few years he was a decent player at best and alot of people were starting to call him a bust. Knock on him was his work ethic and weight. Enter Bo Pelini and Suh drops like 20 lbs and starts buying into what his purpose on the field is. I worry if he were to gain a whole lot more weight he would become inaffective again. Alot of people have only seen what Suh has been lately. Spot on Buck’O.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Interesting
I didn’t know the details of his story. Thanks :)
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Good point
$30m guaranteed would be a big motivator to be at your best for a while…who knows if the work ethic will still be there once the NFL grind hits him.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Lets not forget Krick in the equation
the kid can play too
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
It is not a coincedance that Suh got great next to Crick. Dude will go high soon also.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Good one.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Agree
Not at all a NT, and weight gain to play NT would neutralize some of his natural gifts. He looks like he will step in immediately and play the 3-4 DE at a high level.
And a team looking to the future, and wanting a championship(s)
will likely take Suh if he falls to them, and deal with the fallout, later.
He’s not a true NT, but it’s hard to argue against a front 3 anchored by Jackson, Suh and Dorsey. To my eye, Jackson’s the most likely to end up in the middle of such an alignment. But maybe go 4-3 hybrid, with Suh on the strong side, Dorsey next to him, Jackson remaining at LDE, plus Gilberry/Magee/Hali/Studebaker rounding things out on the weak side, either in 3-pt or upright. In this (far-fetched) scenario, I don’t see Suh being asked to get bigger. Just play at his optimum weight.
If such a scenario were ANYwhere in the cards, though, Chiefs wouldn’t’ve jettisoned Tyler and Boone so readily, imo. The departure of fairly good 4-3 DTs at the expense of the ‘09 season sends a clear "We’re goin’ 3-4, so get OVER yer damn self" message.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Indeed we have Buck
And I would like to avoid using this first round pick on a DL that might need a year to fully develope
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
we will wait and see
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions
McClain=Mike Singletary
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:49 PM CST reply actions
I won't give up on DJ yet he is a stud I have seen enough GREAT play out of him to keep my hopes up.
I think McClain will be a good player but comparing him to Singletary? A little too soon.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Probably but
DJ + Haley = Doghouse + ILB riding the pine more often than not
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
One thing I will say DJ = Not the smartest guy
Yaking longer to adjust to new defensive scheme give him more time may not be in the doghouse asmuch as it appears.
DJ has had his chance
He’s been here under different DC’s, never consistently lived up to high expectations. If DJ was gonna be consistent and run down the RB’s, or shut down the TE, or match up well in zone coverage, or be strong at the point of attack, I think we would have seen it. He hasn’t matured by now, probably not gonna happen here. Not gonna pay big money for a new contract to a situational player. Time to move on.
DJ has played EVERY season behind a d-line that wasn't complete.
Closest we had to a true 4-man front was when Jared Allen was paired with Tamba Hali at the ends, and even THAT configuration was weak against the run.
I’ve seen DJ out of position, overrunning plays or just flat missing his assignment, but KC’s NEVER finished setting the table for its LBs, despite NUMEROUS reaches in the draft and FA to fill out the d-line. One way or another, I expect they will complete the puzzle, with a bona fide NT in the middle in 2010, after which adding and evaluating LBs becomes a reasonable proposition, unlike the last 10 years, imo.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Heh. The turd in the punchbowl.
I’m fairly confident that if he stayed, he’d be worth what they paid him.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
McClain plays behind Cody.
Take the LB whose record is at least partially the product of the big man without getting the big man?
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
draft both?
McClain in the 1st, Cody in the 2nd
I could live with that
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Possible scenario.
I doubt that ILB comes that high in the 1st, and I strongly suspect this LB is overvalued due to supporting cast, as are many RBs and LBs in and out of college.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
ideally
KC trades down a few spots, takes McClain
then Cody falls to them in the 2nd
KC gets both, without reaching, and extra picks :)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Sorry. I just feel that going that high for LB at this stage of team-build
is hard to swallow.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Heh. Is that a #58 reference?
OK. I’ll play the heretic.
Clearly the Chiefs were already strong in the trenches and at DB at the time. But here’s the heretical part: DT got his money and then some, every time his contract came up, even though the Chiefs hemorrhaged talent to keep the great LB.
Double heresy: I felt the same way about Tony Gonzalez. Chiefs were paying LB and TE franchise money and making poor man’s choices in other key areas.
Did I love these two players? Sure. But it was unrequited. If they’d loved me as much, they’d’ve been less greedy and given the team a spending boost that could’ve shored up the trenches and addressed other clear needs.
I’m not saying they were THE reason the Chiefs fell short. But definitely symptomatic of the maladay that resulted in same.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I call bullshit
W didn’t fail to win a superbowl because DT was a bad pick or because we paid him too much. We failed to win a SB because we whiffed on every QB we every drafted.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
Good point.
But when it was time for the short strokes in the wake of other mistakes, Carl paid LB and TE top dollar and let other key positions deteriorate.
But I expected to hear your “Cry Bullshit.” I also remember thinking what the key weaknesses were on the Chiefs, and how there was nothing to be done.
And I didn’t say DT was causal, but symptomatic of the man-love over team-building practices of King Carl. He punked a lot of players who went elsewhere, while he gave DT and TG everything they ever wanted, and those players who were punked could’ve made the difference between KC being an also-ran and KC getting to the big dance.
For instance, DT played the last year or three of his career at DE, where he was MUCH easier to gameplan against. Why? Because KC couldn’t secure and retain a DE. Why? Well, MOSTLY because they were throwing money away in FA looking for the QBs and DLs they couldn’t develop and retain. But at the time, the numbers being thrown around for DT’s and TG’s salaries were RIGHT in line with adding 2 or 3 very good players in positions of REAL need.
So we kept our stars, and limped along with a fundamentally unsound roster.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
At no point were we in any salary cap trouble
Carl could have paid teh players you think we missed out on. Carl’s problem was that he didn’t find them.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions
I guess you and I remember the '90s differently.
I saw Keith Traylor go back to Denver, and, teamed with Neil Smith, win a ring.
James Hasty was CONTINUALLY punked by King Carl, even though he played at Pro Bowl level from the time we signed him for relatively little. Didn’t show him much respect.
My memory’s far from encyclopedic on the matter, but the general impressions I obtained are still pretty much just what I’ve been sharing (foisting), here.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Traylor was a nice player
but not a key player by any means.
Smith didn’t leave because we didn’t have enough money. He left because he wanted more than we wanted to pay. Big difference.
Hasty was punked. He was never paid what he was worht, but we didn’t lose him at all, let alone for salary cap reasons.
Dale Carter was the same situation as Smith.
I wish we had kept these guys just like you. But, we shouldn’t rewrite history. They left because we were cheap (Smith) or they were greedy (Carter). Not because we paid DT.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
You say "We were cheap,"
but Carl was dipping into the next 5 years of salary, with pro-rated bonuses for the likes of Elvis Grbac, Derrick Alexander, Chester McGlockton, Dan Williams…
Grbac fits right in with your earlier claim.
As for re-writing history, it sounds like just a difference in spin. You say “cheap,” and I say “punkin’ players because of the cap.” It was widely reported at the time how many contracts Carl was pro-rating and re-writing (for even MORE money, eventually), so he could win NOW. He squeezed too hard and reached too far. And things that stick out, in addition to the guys I just named, are the popular LB and TE.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Cody or Williams
The question remains in MY mind whether you do much worse than these two with a solid FA plus a later-round NT prospect in the draft. Talk to Steve_Chiefs about NT in this draft. He’s a nut, but he’s a good egg.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
posted a fanshot on NT
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Thx, Steve.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
So was Ryan Leaf
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 22, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply actions
Inside linebackers
There aren’t a lot of teams looking for an ILB in this years draft. Is Brandon Spikes going be around early in the second round?
So then we take a safety like Darrell Stuckey or a pass rushing OLB like Sergio Kindle or Von Miller?
Or do we look for a playmaking WR like Golden Tate?
Personally the only offensive players I’d draft would be linemen and try to get Lendale White as a FA.
My options are above for first three rds. minus O-Line
optional for 2nd and 3rd rd.
I’ve even seen Jerry Hughes dropping into the 2nd round in some mocks
by The Other Patrick Allen on Dec 22, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
Not clear that Lendale White would want to sign here
With JCharles set as starting RB, speed guy getting the majority of touches…. the scene in KC might look A LOT like the one he is leaving with Chris Johnson taking most of the carries. Just sayin’.
That occurred to me, too.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
< nsert Le'Ron McClain mancrush comment here >
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Did I leave that out?
Sorry. Trying to get it in wherever I can.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Was referring to mine
You have one too? It’s good to not feel so alone.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to agree...
….on really good college defenses there is always a GREAT player. The trick is finding him among alot of decent to good players. I don’t think Spikes is that guy.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Myron Rolle would be a great pick up....
….dude was probably a 1st rounder but decided to take his Rhodes Scholarship instead. Could be a real steal in the draft. Plus he is one smart sum-bitch.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
agreed
IF they don’t/can’t get Berry… Rolle or Nate Allen would be great picks
they could take Okung or McClain in the first, pick up a Safety later…
Still have a couple of picks to get OL and WR/RB/OLB
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Now probably goes in 3rd round
My sense from looking at scouting websites is he will go in the 3rd, possibly changed slightly by how he does at the combine. Agree he could be a good pickup and if he drops then an excellent value.
that'd be real nice, Clark
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
He is a stud
He had injuries all year, mainly a bad groin. I hope he slips to the second. He could have his groin removed and he would be better than C. Mays.
hope so!
stockpiling picks is how NE built a dynasty
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Trade down targets?
Houston-They could grab DT McCoy
Atlanta- For DT McCoy-but we already have their second, so unlikely
Green Bay-For OT if Okung is left
Either Cody or Williams would be a HUGE reach with the 5th pick
By “HUGE” I mean a ten-times-more reach than I would have considered TJackson in last year’s draft. Catastrophic reach. LMAO reach. Driven to tears reach. Armageddon reach.
I wouldn't tell anyone
here that…….I did and had half of AP chasing me with pitchforks in hand……LMAO!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
Heh. I hope I'm not in that group.
You’re fine. More fun than agreeing on everything with someone who bases their firmly-held beliefs on lies and Tarot cards.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
There are many variables.
Any number of scenarios should culminate in at least one – and probably two – quality NTs being on the team next year.
Chiefs probably get into the bidding in FA. If they land one, then maybe, as Steve_Chiefs says, any one of a number of good-but-all-with-questions NTs could be had farther down in the draft. Steve, who geeks out on the draft WAY before I do, doesn’t see a whole lot of difference between the entering NTs, and thinks you get about as good in the 4th as you do in the 2nd. Personally, I feel like Cody and Williams both look like long-term solutions, assuming Cody has the right mentality to play up to his potential. In the Chiefs’ favor on this sort of question is that the players he will meet in KC know how to train and practice, after a year under Haley.
If Chiefs do not win the bidding wars, then the teams most in want/need of NT will have taken the high-dollar FA(s), which leaves more of a clear path to the top two NTs in the draft down in the 2nd round.
If Berry’s gone in the 1st, Pioli could go in any number of directions.
Ironically, in a non-top-heavy draft, trading out of the top 5 might be easier, with teams feeling that their later-round 1st might be too low to get the sure-thing (in their eyes) impact player. And if history be any guide, GMs are no more immune to man-love than the most ardent among the AP crowd.
With Suh and Berry gone, KC might very well go after Okung at LT, and the whole Albert-to-LG scenario could play out, but likely without Brian Waters, who very well might want out. Not sure what his contract status is, but that could be parlayed into a 1st-day draft pick, down where the real value is in this draft. Getting a sure-fire starter for a 3rd or a 4th might seem like a bargain to some teams. PIT, in particular, might be looking for something along these lines, for the short-term. They need something drastic to fix their O-Line.
In ALL of this, remember stagdsp‘s point about how NE built its dynasty. While everybody’s eye is on the short-term gratification, quiet, seemingly nonsensical moves that increase the number of future picks is quite common for guys like Pioli. He has Clark’s endorsement for taking the long-term view, which we may not like very much NEXT season, but in any scenario you construct, if it leaves KC with fewer than the normal allotment of picks in 2011 or 2012, let alone more than the norm, your scenario is probably just trade-happy Madden-esque CRAP.
Any scenario that entails taking LB high, before the d-line’s built is likely on the fringe, unless the scenario includes addressing the NT spot. You don’t put high-dollar LBs behind shit and expect them to prosper. Someone else made the same point about Eric Berry – You don’t add a Ferrari at S and then make his job cleaning up all day behind a poor d-line.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
by hmills110 on Dec 22, 2009 4:36 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good points, nice analogy
Try not to drive the Ferrari through the elephant dung all day— very bad for the warranty, lose your insurance, your ears end up full of crap, etc. Agree re picking inside LB’s before the DL is strong, as well.
Generally I like the idea of trading down if the yield of value picks is good— KC needs a lot of talent ASAP. If the Chiefs lose out, drop down to 4th or even the 3rd pick (I know, not highly likely), then trading down might be very difficult because the contract numbers are just so high in the top three slots; the 5th slot is significantly less and gives more flexibility. I’d originally hoped that Locker would come out, provide a glittery prize for QB-hungry teams, make it easier for KC to trade down for a king’s ransom of picks. Now not so optimistic.
Thx.
Any scenario that mortgages the future or isn’t aimed at the long term is a bogus Madden Football scenario.
But don’t discount the man-love factor when draft day approaches. There will likely be somebody willing to do something stupid for the one guy they believe in.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
< Insert Redskins trade up for an over-rated QB comment here >
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
Heh.
And once again, I suspect there might be more interest this year in getting into the top 5, because numerous teams are likely to think their later pick is a waste of a 1st round pick. Trouble with trading down in the first is it opens the likelihood of AP exploding when KC reaches for Cody in the middle of the 1st. Heh.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Yeah people get so freaked out
over the idea of “reach” or “not getting value”. Complete bullshit made up by draft experts to make fans feel like they know more than we do.
There are only 2 kinds of draft picks.
1) Guys who turn out to be good players.
2) Guys who don’t.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Were # 1 Fans here Satch
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yatzee :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Glad someone sees what I'm saying
I get so sick of this “OMG it was such a reach!!!!” crap. WTF do I care if we pick the 15th ranked guy on McShay’s board with teh 5th pick? If all there is to it is following McShay’s board, make me the freaking GM. Hell, lets hire McShay.
I’m pretty pleased we have a guy who is willing to take the best player for a postion of need on a board we put togetehr ourselves. McShay can kiss my dick.
If Pioli turns out to be wrong…well then I’ll have a problem with that. If he turns out to be consistently wrong…I’ll have a big problem with that. But people are wasting their breath trying to tell me we had a bad draft because we’re reaching too much or whatever. Wake me up in 3 years when we know what we got.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
In general I agree, Satchmo
If you took the whole draft board and just took the highest-rated available player at your turn— the essence of ‘value’ and ‘not reaching’— you would end up with some seriously messed-up rosters.
The opposite would be, when your slot comes up, to pick the best guy at the positions you have need, with no attention to any players at other positions. Here the potential downside is the opportunity cost of not taking someone who is actually great at their position, better even than someone you already have at a non-need position. Thus the resulting roster problem is a team completely composed of mediocre players: all your needs are met, but not of the players are all that great.
Whether this applies in the world of internet draft-niks is unclear to me, since we are not professional personnel departments (I assume!) and are not grading each player, and thus coming up with some quantitation of their value and skill.
So it leads to a lot of questions IMHO. What positions are the highest need for any team? What kind of value differential would be considered “significant”? With no value numbers, who’s to say that a particular choice for need ignores a player who is significantly better? Well, yes, I guess that’s what we’ll be debating for the next four months.
I agree with your analysis of how to draft
I just reject the analysis of many that the draftniks board is what we should go by when determining what player is significantly better than another. The terms reach and value are always based on the opinions of people not qualified to make the decision.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
Check out www.drafttek.com
the do drafts with a need based on value of players thing with some interesting trade scenarios on occasion. If they run like the did last year. Pre-AP I usually was on the mocks if Chiefs were not playoff bound. Sad life “Married with Children”. Even though the life has its comedic moments too.
Like the time that LS’s finest showed up about something and one of the kids had the biggest Bongs (Arabic) I had ever seen on the fireplace (no knowledge it was there at the time) until in the middle of the conversation I Spotted it :( and tried to shield it from the police, thank you lord for small HUGE favors
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
I do like drafttek
I just think it’s a joke when any draft expert starts calling picks a reach when they really have no idea if the player the rank 5th will be better than the guy they rank 5th.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with this line of thinking, guys.
But you’re right, when it comes to the yin and yang of team-building. I HATED seeing the stiff and slow-footed Victor Riley chosen in the 1st, just because he was the next-most-highly-rated OT remaining, even though he was reeled in from the far side of the continental shelf.
From as close to the situation as I’M sitting, ILB is STUPID in the top 5 and probably not good in the 1st round. And I doubt anyone here is all that much closer to anything beyond those sorts of generalities.
I’m entirely open to the idea that a great LB with stout and an extra gear makes the key play(s) that win a championship for you. But I really think that a championship team has the best fatties in front of that LB. Very few exceptions. Indy’s one. But with their offense, their defense has largely been able to just mix things up for a half, and then pin their ears back down the 4th-quarter stretch. Play a high-risk style of D that gives up yards, but also gives the D more shots at dramatic 3-and-outs, and demands precision from the opposing offense to score anything but FGs. Worst case scenario: Trade TDs until the other guys make one or more unforced errors on offense.
Blah blah blah. Nice take on some of the factors involved, and that ANYone with a black-and-white answer probably doesn’t get it.
Too much attention to PON and you’re in trouble. Ignore PON and you’re in trouble. Finding the proper mix of BPA and PON: BRILLIANT!
I’m clearly on the side of “great linemen” and “good journeyman LB.” Doesn’t mean I’d faint dead away at KC’s adding a great LB. I appreciate great players at ALL the positions. I just think you look for more profound improvements elsewhere, especially short-term, especially on the current team. And significant improvements in the LB crew are actually quite likely without reaching, unlike the positions I always rant about: DL/DB/WR/OT
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Personally
waaaaay on board with not taking a ILB top 5.
You can expect me to take jabs at you any time you say we should wait and see how Mays and Williams look with better talent around them.
;)
Good convo as always.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
Heh. I'm not passing judgement.
Not on LB. Not until I see how Mays and Williams look with better talent around them.
I bring up Donovan McNabb in this context quite often. Back when Terrell Owens was bitching because he wasn’t getting the ball enough in Philly, McNabb wasn’t seeing him when he was open, and he was forcing the ball out too quickly against the 3-man pass rush, in particular. Didn’t mean McNabb wasn’t a great QB. He was just in a shitty situation whenever they faced decent pass rushing teams.
So even some of the clear ERRORS I see from our current LBs, I always take with a grain of salt.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Here here
football is year round thank you lord for something to be interested in.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
I'm with ya, Satch'
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
+1 - You said it
I trust guys whos jobs depend on drafting well over guys like Mel Keiper Jr.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Me I did it
+ some :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Actually if Clausen is sitting there when we draft
We might have 8 trade partners to choose from.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
Shame Locker didn't come out
Then we’d have a more realistic chance of trading out.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
Again, that's Mel Keiper Jr. talking
I read that the NFL Draft Advisory Panel (or something like that) advised Locker that he didn’t grade as a 1st round prospect, and that may be a big reason why he elected to return to school.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Doesn't matter
He’s exactly the type of player some poorly managed team would trade up to get.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, true
here’s hoping Bradford, McCoy and Clausen all have good pre-draft workouts.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Where did you read that?
I dunno, I’ve seen Locker play, he looks like a big-time talent, and I’ll be surprised if he goes to a well-coached team and doesn’t develop into a star.
Had to think for a minute, but here:
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
That is some serious analysis there, Thanks
bq.Ironically, in a non-top-heavy draft, trading out of the top 5 might be easier, with teams feeling that their later-round 1st might be too low to get the sure-thing (in their eyes) impact player. And if history be any guide, GMs are no more immune to man-love than the most ardent among the AP crowd.
and excellent read on the My **** is bigger than yours of NFL GM’s
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Draft Prospects
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/pages/2010-nfl-draft-defensive-tackles
1 Cody 6’5, 365 pounds | Alabama
2 Williams 6’3, 326 pounds | Tennessee
3 Ekom Udofia | 6’2, 310 pounds | Stanford
4 Phil Taylor | 6’4, 355 pounds | Baylor
I don’t know that ANY of the other DTs in the draft have the size you want in a 3-4 NT.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
maybe a couple more
Torrell Troup UCF 6-3 314 (round 4-5)
Jay Ross East Carolina 6-3 314 (round 7 or FA)
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_DT
they list Udofia as a possible UDFA
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Phil Taylor is a Junior I think and might not come out with the Pick Eval
Tried the draft debacle will try again tom. Just screws me up with Cleveland at top of board :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
cleveland?
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
oh, you can change the team order on there...
it is kind of a pain
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I'm into pain free like AP
oh not exactly, Saying sorry is a good thing when you talk out of your ass, which I do on occasion :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
AP = pain free huh?
Read the responses to my desire to pick McClain at #5 if Berry and Suh are off the board above………Ouch! I think some people on here had a long day today =)
No worries……I love my Chiefs and I’m up for spirited debate so I’ll be back for more!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
Attaboy Sir
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Heh. You should know that I'm not one to let the 1st-round LB/RB picks go unremarked.
It’s one of my pet peeves.
You should have seen the hate I used to get in the Martyball days when I said that runningback by committee is a very smart way to team-build-and-maintain. EVERYbody wanted a 1st-round feature back, and thought RB x or RB y was the second coming of Barry Sanders.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
In a way, this is a continuation of that same argument,
only more people seem to be closer to the way I’ve always looked at things.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Now if you can just come around to my way of thinking
That Mays is not man-crush worthy and Flowers is. ;)
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Now if I could get the
Chuck Norris < Jean Claude Van Damme to work
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
I hope you don't mean that.
Norris faced Bruce Lee in Game of Death. What’d Van Damme ever do?
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
The splits
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Renasciance man
sorry spelling
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Haha.....no worries
Regardless of our differences on this year’s first round, I enjoy debating with a fellow intellect. If I remember correctly, you once had a theory about the absence of D. Bowe and it was not well received here. I was the first (possibly only AP member) to congratulate you on your theory as I appreciate people going against the grain from time to time if their thoughts lead them down that road.
This particular conversation is no different. I’m wise enough to not let pride blind me from the facts. I’ve enjoyed your analyses on the current state of this organization and your ideas on how we can improve ever since I joined this site. Seeing as how that’s the case, if we draft your NT at #5 and go on to success, I will be the first to congratulate you once again………..because above all else, I am a Chiefs fan.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Ouch!
If you come away from this thinking I want to spend the #5 pick on NT, I’ve failed to make myself clear. I like the 2a pick for Cody or Williams, although I’m starting to think Williams isn’t quite the body type needed. And I have doubts that Cody passes the attitude test – he may have failed it, already, just by the existence of rumors about his lack of work ethic.
Look at the “reach” for Jackson. Look at Jackson’s character, his closeness to family and his simple, laconic way of expressing himself. He’s a simple, straightforward guy who has his eye on the main chance, who does everything in his power to make the right things happen. As a rookie, the extra time he puts in to make himself better has surfaced, lately.
So if Pioli DOES take Cody, it means that’s the sort of thing to expect. Like as not, Pioli has Cody slotted in the 2nd or even 3rd round, already, even though his up-side is perennial dominance and hushed and awed tones by announcers when his name is introduced. Blah blah blah. This is all just to say that such a pick wouldn’t surprise me or break my heart, but I don’t see it as the most likely outcome, because there are questions about his dedication to the sport, and there were no doubts about Jackson’s dedication.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Or Hali
like the thought. Hali and Jackson see what football actually did in their lives a lot of players don’t and never will.
If I could have seen a lifetime of security with what i could do at 20 something……
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 23, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
We're typically our own worst enemy on some front or another.
Football players are no more immune to the syndrome than the rest of us. But yeah, part of the talent eval is NOT seeing that sort of thing from a young guy coming up.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I agree
I think it’s pretty clear that Pioli puts more weight into character and dedication to football than he does to pure athletic talent, though he does seem to be willing to make the raw talent picks later in the draft (Donald Washington). If he does pick Cody at the top of the first round, it won’t be because he thinks KC needs a big NT at all costs.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Right. It'll be because Cody impressed with his character, as well.
And that appears unlikely, at this point. Chiefs don’t want a guy who needs to be told to stay in shape.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
partucularly not
when you’ve just given that guy 30 million reasons to stay in whatever condition he wants to.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I guess Im just another Mills Groupie
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 22, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
OK. Enough about me.
Amazing how much one can learn in open dialogue. Socrates used to do a lot of that. Don’t think he published a whole lotta FanPosts, though.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
We need a Socrates post
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 23, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
I'll think about it
I’m sure I could work some Logos, Ethos, Pathos magic.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 23, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
i wouldnt be suprised if cody falls into the bottom of the first round. we draft high in the second and have other picks that we can use to trade up a couple of spots.
That's a possibility.
But remote. I don’t see Pioli trading up for Cody, unless Cody passes the attitude test. And if he passes the attitude test and comes into the combine a svelte 320 and runs the cone drill like Lance Long, somebody else takes him in the 1st.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
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