Todd Haley Says the Chiefs Haven't Regressed
by Joel Thorman on Dec 22, 2009 9:00 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintTodd Haley was asked yesterday if the Kansas City Chiefs play over the last few games demonstrates a regression. Giving up 40 points in three of the last four games? Scoring 14 or less in three of the last four games? Four straight losses?
"No, I wouldn’t take that stance," Haley said sticking to his original thoughts - "We weren't good enough."
Haley says "there has been progress made in enough areas to know that we’re making progress." Generally I can buy the progress line but the last month hasn't shown that. The stats point to more of a regression.
Against the Steelers (114 yards) and Chargers (94 yards), the Chiefs run defense wasn't terrible. But...they gave up 402 and 332 yards passing, respectively.
How do the Chiefs follow that up? Holding their next three opponents to under 175 yards passing. But...they gave up 796 yards rushing in those three games.
The Chiefs have created three turnovers in each of the last three games and ten over the last four. But...the offense has given back 12.
"But I wouldn’t go so far as to say there has been regression," Haley continued, "but a little too much yo-yo on certain individuals and certain groups."
Haley was hesitant when asked if it was a coaching issue or a personnel issue. He called the question "too black and white" for him to answer. "I think it’s a group effort. It’s doing things the right way and coaches getting our players to do it the right way and then our players doing it the right way. "
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We have not regressed
Bad team played bad in 2007.
Bad team played bad in 2008.
Bad team played bad 1st half of 2009.
Bad team playing bad 2nd half of 2009.
Bad team is Bad.
WTB good team.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions
The Defense has
definitely regressed! The run Defense is none existent now!
1st time I’ve every really felt that Haley didn’t “tell it like it is” in a presser.
agreed
we gave up a bagillion yards to the freaking Cleveland Browns back up running backs…
ps-yes, bagillion is a number
"It’s a new dawn in Kansas City. Waters, the rest of the players, and the media had better get a grasp of it, and fast. The old Chiefs are indeed dead." - Nick Athan Warpaint Illustrated
I think he told he told it exactly how it is
He did talk more about the dropped balls than the lack of run defense. Being the WRs coach and putting a lot of work into addressing this issue, I think this is what bothered him the most about Sunday. I believe he said “one of the most frustrating things I’ve ever had to deal with as a coach” and how he has tried different things and nothing has really worked. I am expecting some changes at WR this offseason.
Run defense is an issue, but maybe he knows Pendergast is a lame duck and we will be getting a new DC regardless. Who knows? We will see. I did think Haley “told it like it is” and he has all year. He said it many times — you have to stop the run and catch the ball in critical situations like 3rd downs to win the game. Period. It is comforting to know that he sees the same problems we do watching the game, addresses the problems, and doesn’t blame it on youth…unlike past coaches (Herm).
Me, too.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
disagree
he said it’s a group effort that is failing. sound to me like he’s telling it how it is.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
I'm not sure if we've regressed
but it sure feels like the same ol’ terrible Chiefs that we have been watching the last few years.
There are tons of things to improve on, but at what point, do WRs forget how to catch a football? In that respect we have regressed drastically!
I’m so tired of saying, “wait til next year.”
I wish we would just pull it together and at least go .500!
"It’s a new dawn in Kansas City. Waters, the rest of the players, and the media had better get a grasp of it, and fast. The old Chiefs are indeed dead." - Nick Athan Warpaint Illustrated
I mean they have regressed from earlier in the season, and they have, especially on D.
Would be hard to have regressed on O, they’ve struggled all season.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 22, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I first had to wonder
what his definition of regression was. We certainly haven’t made progress. So I looked up the definition of regression and the first definition was “the act of going back to a previous state”. Well, with that definition we haven’t regressed, we have gotten worse than we were previously. We are playing worse now than we did even under Herm. That Cleveland game was flat out disgusting. To lose like that to that team is inexcusable. To be playing like we are still in the preseason when we were at week 14 is inexcusable.
Players are no longer doing the fundamentals. Receivers aren’t catching, defense isn’t tackling. There are blown assignments. Brandon Albert who was solid last year looks pedestrian this year. Ugh, I don’t even know what else to say, I am just so disgusted by this team and how they have played this year. I’ll always be a Chiefs fan but they do make it hard.
We won one more game than last year with 2 more left to play
Only area I think we have regressed since last year is, as you said, LT. But Branden has gotten noticably better as the year has progressed. I still might rather see him at LG though, but only if Brian Waters can still play C and if we can get a good LT (I’m not sold on Okung yet).
Debatable
He had a good rookie year and didn’t improve this year. Sophomore slump, who knows? I am willing to wait another year on him at LT since this is basically another rookie year for him being in a new system, but pre-Draft many had him pegged as a good LT and a great LG.
Again, I said he has progressed as the year went along but didn’t make the leap many expected out of him after a great rookie year.
Albert will be fine?
I hope so. He has regressed some this year but they put in a different blocking scheme. I’ll give him another year and see. I think Bowe has regressed as well. Individually it’s hard to tell because so many players aren’t here anymore. Looking at the full team though I think we have regressed or gotten worse. We have won an extra game but I think we were more competitive last year even in our losses. Last year you could even see progress through the season. Once Thigpen got more conmfortable and they changed the offense to more of a spread you could see them getting better, making plays, at least staying in games. This year you never know what you are going to get but rarely, especially later in the season, do they look competitive or like they have a chance.
About the only player I can say has gotten better is Dorsey. He is out of position but playing well. Oh, and Hali too. Carr and Flowers haven’t regressed but it’s hard to tell if they have gotten any better. Safetys, linebackers, most of the O-Line, tight end, and full back have all either gotten worse or are the same as last year, which was bad.
yeah, when he said everyone, including HC, would be held accountable
because I haven’t seen him holding the HC accountable in any way, shape or form (or the OC for that matter) … players are promoted and demoted, even fringe coaching staff are hired, moved around … depth chart changes and then changes some more (no continuity, no familiarity and that’s especially important on the OL and takes longest to develop on OL)
this team is as bad or worse than last year … with two exceptions: 1) LJ is gone 2) Succop
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
he's the boss, is he supposed to demote himself?
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
yup
he should never have taken the OC role to begin with, he has far too much on his plate as a new HC … that said, he should have fired himself as HC long ago when it was clearly apparant the team had issues, he was overloaded and needed help …
he may say he’s “accountable” but what has he done to change what HE does? there’s my point in a nutshell
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
so let me get this straight
you want him to resign?
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
i never said i could spell
be +1 for being a smart ass :p
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
At least he realizes that it's a group effort and everyone is playing a part in this team being bad.
His didn’t admonish himself of any wrongdoing there, so in a way I think he’s taking some of that responsibility as well.
Krumrie has to go after this season. There’s no way that guy should be coaching the D line after the horrible play they’ve shown this season with TWO top five picks starting up front. (3 if you count Hali). There are going to have to be some jobs lost this offseason, and they’re going to have to be canned early to get the best candidates possible in for replacements. It’s either got to be Pendergrast or Krumrie… Hopefully both.
If you only knew...
Hali wasn't Top 5...but was still a 1st rounder
I think we could see a demotion for Pendergast. Not sure about Krumrie. I disagree that the DL play has been horrible. I think the DL has played well except for NT, but I think NT is a personnel issue not a coaching one. Ron Edwards just isn’t good enough.
Glenn Dorsey has made a lot of progress and I think he will be a great 3-4 DE in this league, maybe one of the best. Tyson Jackson has improved each game, and Pioli and Haley said it coming it that it would take him 2-3 years before we started seeing real production out of him.
My predictions: Anthony Pleasant becomes the new DL coach, Krumrie stays as asst. DL coach. Pendergast gets demoted to LBs or asst. DC and we hire Crennel.
That's what I meant
3 first rounders on the “line” (even tho Hali is technically a LB now…)
How can you say the Dline hasn’t been atrocious? 30th ranked defense with 387.5 yards/game given up. 31st ranked rush defense with 162.6 yards/game given up. 19 sacks. While that’s more sacks than last year, that’s still 2nd worst in the league.
The defense has created turnovers, that’s their only saving grace.
If you only knew...
I pretty much reiterated your point
And I feel the same way about Muir. Albert and Waters clearly got worse this season. Coaches are to blame for these kinds of failures.
I don't think Albert and Waters get necessarily worse
Albert lost a lot of weight, and I buy the argument they’re saying that he’s adjusting to playing at a lower weight and not being able to rely of just being a big guy. But his play this season isn’t where it was last year, that’s for sure.
Looking at the other side of the line though, I think the right side is playing exceptional, far better than last season.
If you only knew...
according to footballoutsiders.com
We’re 28th in pass protection and 31st in run blocking. The word “exceptional” is probably not appropriate to use in any context involving our offensive line.
considering
we’re not in the spread and our QB isn’t a part-time running back, yeah, you’re probably right.
I agree
the O-line has improved, and I think Wade Smith starting has made the difference. The middle of that line was weak!
( one of the complaints about Haley I tend to agree with is his tendency to stick with some guys but not others, when to some, another player would be a much better at that position. Example LJ over Charles)
The O- lines play has been better since Smith started at Center and carried on when he was moved to Guard. I’ve been calling for him to be the starting Center all season. I’ve been hard on Nieswanger, but his play has seemed to improve since he came back from the injury too. Alleman is still a ? in my mind.
by JohnNdallas on Dec 22, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Waters is hard to call.
Old enough to be concerned that he’ll hit the wall. Also not sure how hard he might try to get outta KC. They didn’t start off all kissy-face last winter, and things weren’t great this year.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
3-4 switch
We switched to a 3-4 without a true Nose Tackle…bad plan. Throwing in a 4-3 DT to play NT just doesn’t work as they are usually taller (higher center of gravity which means easier to move when blocking), lighter and not quite as strong (but usually quicker and faster). For a 3-4 defense to work you need a short, wide, very strong NT who takes on 2-3 blockers every down which frees up the LB’s to make plays. The Steelers Casey Hampton is a very good NT and he’s listed at 6’1" and 320 lbs. Vince Wilfork is another very good NT and he’s listed at 6’2" and 325 lbs. Meanwhile Edwards is taller and lighter at 6’3" and 315, plus he’s really a DT converted to NT so he’s learning the position.
LB’s are important in the 3-4 but so is the NT.
could the Chiefs' 2008 team beat the current team?
probably, although both defenses couldn’t stop anybody. I’d give the edge to the 2008 team because Gonzo doesn’t drop passes and Gailey could run some funky stuff w/ Thigpen.
We have regressed
I think our problems this year revolve around 2 things:
1. Poor line play. Both line coaches should be replaced, a new starting NT, and 2 or 3 new starting OL.
2. Poor management. Both coordinators need to be replaced.
From there, our problems become more manageable.
I also want to say I think Pioli did a poor job supplying this team with players. He’s going to have to do a much better job next year or his reputation will go up in flames.
Center and RG
but other than those two positions I think the line is fairly solid. I’m not so sure the Oline is a coaching result so much as injuries and lack of depth coming into the season. You can’t coach the unabled.
I agree that Krumrie should be gone, as well as Pendergrast, and an OC needs to be brought in or waiting on the staff now to be promoted. Something needs to happen.
This defense was terrible, and there are WAY too many first day picks out there for it to be this bad.
If you only knew...
again
I just think you’re giving our offensive line too much credit. We’ve had the offensive tools to be dangerous all season and have accomplished very little. Those footballoutsider.com stats are a very good indicator why our offense has struggled this year. Our WRs haven’t helped, but the bigger problem has been the OL.
i see it like this...
We beat the Steelers and since then….
Two blowout losses to Division opponents and then lose to Buffalo and the fucking Browns……to me that equals regression.
Vs Browns….its one thing to see a team with a good mix of run/pass plays end up having a good day running the ball…..its another thing when you KNOW that all they are going to do is RUN the ball and you still cant stop it.
In a coaches first yr, you usually dont have a whole lot of expectations for a winning season. You do however expect to see improvement,especially this deep into the season. Your rookies should be coming into their own and showing promise for next yr. The team should be getting better as a whole. There has been to much shifting of players, no consistantcy, bad game managment, and no real leadership by players that should be leading.
Im not ready to give Haley his walking papers yet, but he better show me something next yr.
I may change my mind by the end of the season
and want him gone…lol….especially if we allow LJ to have any personal satisfaction in this weeks game against Cinci…..I can take them beating us, but I dont want LJ to have anything to do with it and be able to walk off the field with a smug look on his face. I wanna see that chump get smoked everytime he touches the ball…with bad intentions…..he already tweeted that he cant wait to run all over KC when Cinci signed him…..Haley should be using this to motivate his team this week.
Regressed?
Fozzy, I completely agree with your use of semantics. The largest problem is at the top. Haley has proven to be totally inadequate as a HC. He needs to go NOW!
Flip Flopper!!!!
!!!!!
!!
!!!
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
how is he lying?
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Leaf, by now my man you should know my sense of humor...Read the title to the post
then flip down and read my answer! There ya go! smile!
ruff night last night so bad humor seems to have eluded me :p
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Apples and oranges.
Comparing an incompletely installed 3-4 to a poorly installed 4-3.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
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