The Kansas City Chiefs Still Can't Get It Right on Defense

by Chris Thorman on Dec 22, 2009 7:23 AM CST in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign

If you can recall last season (or if you actually want to), you'll remember that the Kansas City Chiefs defense was plain terrible, giving up nearly 400 yards of offense to opposing teams each week. The Chiefs took it on the chin in the running game as well, ending up ranked 30th in the NFL against the run.

Unfortunately, this year isn't turning out to be much different. New coaching staff and scheme aside, these Chiefs are producing the same results on defense. I can't believe I'm typing that this year's team is worse against the run. That is just ridiculous.

In fact, Mrs. Arrowhead Pride has taken to watching the Chiefs game each week just to hear the inevitable, "The Chiefs gave up a record...." And when that happens, she laughs uncontrollably while I sulk.

To try and figure out if this Chiefs' D is worse than last year's, we're talking ranks and improvement (or lack thereof), after the jump.

Last March, I looked at the two worst defenses in each year during the last decade and compared them to where they ended up ranked (in yards per game) the next year.

I wanted to see what we could expect a reasonable improvement to be for the Chiefs' D.

1998: Indianapolis Colts (29th to 15th), Carolina Panthers (30th to 26th)
1999: Washington Redskins (30th to 4th), Cleveland Browns (31st to 26th)
2000: Arizona Cardinals (31st to 28th), Seattle Seahawks (32nd to 20th)
2001: Atlanta Falcons (30th to 19th), Carolina Panthers (31st to 2nd)
2002: Detroit Lions (31st to 24th), Kansas City Chiefs (32nd to 29th)
2003: Houston Texans (31st to 23rd), Atlanta Falcons (32nd to 14th)
2004: Kansas City Chiefs (31st to 25th), New Orleans Saints (32nd to 14th)
2005: Houston Texans (31st to 24th), San Francisco 49ers (32nd to 26th)
2006: Washington Redskins (31st to 8th), Tennessee Titans (32nd to 5th)
2007: Buffalo Bills (31st to 14th), Detroit Lions (32nd to 32nd)
2008: Kansas City Chiefs (31st to ???), Detroit Lions (32nd to ???)

I averaged out the improvement in rankings and the average improvement was an increase of 11 spots in the rankings after being the worst or second worst defense.

With the exception of the 2001 Cardinals, the 2002 Chiefs and the 2007 Detroit Lions, every team improved their defensive rank by at least five spots.

Unfortunately, the Chiefs look like they're going to be one of those exceptions again this season. I've compared the 2008 Chiefs defensive ranks with the 2009 ranks:

	2008	2009	Difference
Yards/Game	31	30	+1
Rushing yards	30	31	-1
Passing yards	28	19	+9
Sacks	32	31	+1
1st downs/game	31	21t	+10
Points/game	29	31	-2

Pretty sad, huh?

There are some improvements but I don't think any one here will argue those are because of talent or coaching. It's relatively easy to be a low ranked run defense and have a relatively high pass defense when you're going by yards per game.

The Chiefs are almost assured of being another one of the exceptions I mentioned above, where their defensive rank doesn't improve by more than five spots from year to year.

To get us going this morning, is this year's D worse than last year's?

Poll

Is the 2009 version of the Chiefs defense worse than 2008's?

Yes

367 votes

No

234 votes

601 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 39 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Interesting

Ten votes in and all are voting yes, even though this year’s rankings are better.

Founded Arrowhead Pride 7/26/2006

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by Chris Thorman on Dec 22, 2009 7:28 AM CST reply actions

The ass-whooping is still fresh in our minds

But I voted no. We need someone, anyone who can clog he middle. This shit is getting pathetic. Us and the Lions are the only teams up there three times, not the company we want to be keeping.

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!

by nateforchiefs on Dec 22, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe the way the question is phrased?

I accidently hit “no” when I meant “yes” after just a quick skim.

I thought it said “Are the 2009 Chiefs BETTER than the 2008’s”

Oh well.

by Nick Britt on Dec 22, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

i said it once and ill say it again

I think the chiefs r setting a record for giving up records every time the chiefs play. I don’t think I have watched one game this season where the chiefs have given up some type of record. For a team or a player. That is just scary to know that teams that play us know that they could have a career day against us.

FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.

by sexassassin on Dec 22, 2009 10:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Actually

that would be interesting to note all the records that have broken against the Chiefs lately. Interesting in a sad way.

by Fozzyboyd on Dec 22, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions

I'm going to go with No.

Yes the games are not pretty, yes the big plays are always their for the other team, yes we make a nobody look like an all pro. With that being said, our D has shown flashes of major improvement this year over last years. The scheme change, coach changes, different personnel every 5 mins. We need to get a good NT and a beast of a Safety that can stay back to stop the runner and actually cover the middle of the field.

by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 22, 2009 7:51 AM CST reply actions

I went with yes because IMO in the NFL if your not moving forward if your not improving

your going backwards. It’s not enough to improve in one small facet of defense only to become much worse in two others. It’s like getting your kid to FINALLY cover their mouth when they cough only to have them pee all over the floor when they use the toilet. Hmm that analogy sucked…..let’s just go with " I voted Yes" and leave it at that. I gotta pee now.

by krayfish on Dec 22, 2009 7:54 AM CST reply actions

Right on. In fact here is something maybe worse out of the list.

Out of those eleven seasons listed the teams that showed up more than once:
Carolina(2)
Atlanta(2)
Houston(2)
Washington(2)
Detroit(3)
Kansas City(3)

Granted, you don’t want to be on that list, but if you are you want to get off the list and never return, i.e. Colts.
Perhaps repeating on the list is contributing to the 70% vote as much as anything.

by BCRavenJHawkfan on Dec 22, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions

but when you consider that they have to do every thing different this year

it’s not surprising that the defense is still sucks. the chiefs aren’t playing the game the same as they did last year so it’s as if they are learning to walk again. a better analogy is some one going through rehab to walk again after a bad accident. when learning to walk again there are good days, and bad days. on those bad days it almost seems like the person is regressing, it it can be very discouraging to the person and the friends and family supporting them.

UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Dec 22, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Mrs. Arrowhead Pride is right Chris....and you shouldn't sulk

at least we’re a record breaking team!! AWESOME!! LMAO…my wife does the same thing..dammit!

by krayfish on Dec 22, 2009 8:08 AM CST reply actions

Voted no

Because this season I see improvement and hope where as last year it seemed like once the Chiefs got behind I knew the defense wasn’t going to make the stop or prevent a score. This year I feel like we at least have a 50/50 shot of the defense doing their job vice last year I just knew they were going to collapse and lose the game for us. And for right now Hope is everything.

is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?

This Chiefs team is closer to a new expansion team than it is a playoff contender, your expectations should match that.

by KC Fanatic on Dec 22, 2009 8:31 AM CST reply actions

I am sure there is improvement within the team compare to last year. BUT

the measuring stick is really against 31 other teams isn’t it. If all we had to do was improve on our own performance each year we win the damn super bowl every year in our minds.

The reality is there are 31 other teams working to improve as well. That’s what we have to measure against. This has went on for so long I don’t give a rats ass about getting better within our “right 53”, we have to get better compare to the “other 31”.

by BCRavenJHawkfan on Dec 22, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd...that's a great point and it's true!

by krayfish on Dec 22, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions

flagged because you just don't get it :p

ok i obviously i didn’t really flag you, but i do think you are missing something. we are improving against the other teams. in ever facet of the defense we are better then more teams, thou not by much in most cases, then last year with the exception of rushing d but i think at the moment that is misleading. remember for most of the year our rushing d was ranked around 26, which isn’t much better , but it’s an improvement over 4 teams. then we have one very disgraceful game and our improvement implodes. so the only reason why our rushing d is worse at the moment is because of one game. i’m not saying that our rushing d is set; hell no it’s not. it still needs a vast amount of work, but in my opinion it’s still better then last years.

by Leaf on Dec 22, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions

How does it get fixed?

Am I delusional to be thinking that we are two good inside linebackers and a good safety away from having an above average D?

Predictions:

Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010

by jmcgoblue on Dec 22, 2009 8:41 AM CST reply actions

And a real NT and some more experience for our DE's.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Dec 22, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions

A few of these stick out. Does anyone know the story?

I mean how do you go from horrible to near the top in one year? I wonder what happened for these teams to make the jump:

1999: Washington Redskins (30th to 4th), 2001 Carolina Panthers (31st to 2nd), 2006 Tennessee Titans (32nd to 5th)

Did these teams change coordinators? Upgrade personnel? Just get better with more time in to gel? What’s the story?

This would give us a roadmap to follow, if there is a common thread.

"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."

by cpa913 on Dec 22, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions

I don't know

but I do think that if there is any one glaring weakness on a defense the opposition is going to draw up a gameplan to exploit it. I think that’s what teams have been doing to KCs ILBs and Safety over the middle all year. Maybe those teams plugged the one or two gaping holes that they had in the previous season. I hope it’s that simple for KC.

Predictions:

Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010

by jmcgoblue on Dec 22, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions

I'm not sure you can make any parrallels here...

The 2001 Carolina Panthers season was the seventh season for the team in the National Football League. They tried to improve upon their 7-9 record in 2000, and make it to the playoffs for the second time in franchise history. However, the season was a total disaster. Not only were the Panthers unable to improve over last season, but they deteriorated even further to a record 1-15, winning only their opener, thus setting the record for most consecutive losses during a single season in NFL history (which has since been broken by the 2008 Detroit Lions). Following the season, head coach George Seifert was fired and replaced by John Fox. By the end of the season, the Panthers had become so woeful that only about 16,000 fans showed up to see them play in their finale against the New England Patriots, who went on to win the Super Bowl.

by cpa913 on Dec 22, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe there's no secret, the players just got to step up and play ball

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/450167/keith_bullocks_challenge_improves_titans.html

Keith Bullock is not stranger to success. Now in his 8th season he has been on a number of successful Tennessee Titans teams. Besides being a two time all-pro player(2002 and 2003) Bullock played on several playoff teams. Recent years however have been anything but successful. The Titans experienced four and five game winning seasons until last year’s 8-8 finish. The team was only one game away from the playoffs. Bullock began to do some thinking.

After the 2006 season Bullock sat at home and reviewed some stats from the season. He learned that the Titans were dead last in the NFL in defense. Despite this fact the team was one victory away from making the playoffs. Bullock quickly concluded that if the

Titans could be just in the top 10 in defense, they would easily make the playoffs. Bullock decided to challenge his teammates to become just that.

The Titans defenders seemed to respond. They all began to take their workouts over the off season more seriously. Even the biggest of Titans Albert Haynesworth worked harder during the off season. The result, Haynesworth is the best defensive tackle in the league and the Titans have one of the best defenses in the league. Lead up front by standouts Kyle Vandenbosh and Antwan Odom the Titans have one of the best front four on defense, of any team in the National Football League.

by cpa913 on Dec 22, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions

+1

by Nick Britt on Dec 22, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions

I wouldn't tout Washington as success. They came back to earth.

But you do make a point, just as I was in pointing out the Colts getting better and never returning to the list.

by BCRavenJHawkfan on Dec 22, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions

don't you think that the dolts are the exception rather then the rule

by Leaf on Dec 22, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

one thing that stands out to me in this

is that we’ve been sniffing the bottom of the d barrel all decade.

by Leaf on Dec 22, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

The last few games have been pretty awful.

But prior to that the defense was showing alot of signs of improvement. Up until week 11, with the exception of a couple games, the defense really played alot better then last year. We had a few really promising games on D and really the only glaring problem was giving up big plays here and there.

I think the offense not being able to capitalize on good defensive play cost us more this year then anything else. Numerous times the momentum of the game or feel of the game couldve completely shifted if the offense had just taken advantage of the good play on the defensive side of the ball.

Look through the schedule and you can see it…

1.The defense, although not playing stellar, made plays when they needed to and gave us a chance to win against baltimore.
2.The defense gave us more then enough opportunity to win against Oakland.
3.The defense gave us a chance to win against Dallas despite giving up a big day from Austin Miles. When you stuff a team on defense and give your offense the ball on the 50 yard line in OT you need to win that game.
4. Other then one big play to Portis the defense pretty much won the Redskin game.
5. The defense played tough and actually very well in the first Charger game but again the negative tone was set by the offense.
6. The Denver game the defense comes out and sets the tone with a huge play and again the offense doesnt take advantage.
7. Defense won the second Oakland game.
8. The D kept us in the Pitt game and gave us a chance to win.
9. The D gave up alot of rushing yards against Buffalo but again played well enough to win.

Im not pretending that the D is perfect by any stretch but they have been good enough and made enough big plays to change the momentum of the game that theres no way it was as bad as last year. If the offense came out on the field and took advantage of the good play when it was there the win and loss column would look different. It hasnt been great but unlike last year you can see signs that with a little more offensive support, a bit better coaching or coaching decisions and an injection of a little more talent we’re on our way.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Dec 22, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions

One good stat there...

Despite what you could still call a meager pass rush and horrendous run defense(which means play action is there all day long) 19th in passing yards isn’t THAT bad and certainly shows a huge improvement.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Dec 22, 2009 9:06 AM CST reply actions

Voted No

We’re not worse. We’re really just the same D as last year.

2008 27.5 points allowed/game
2009 27.4 points allowed/game

The only upside is that this year’s abomination is in the 1st year of a new system. Last year’s abomination was in an established system.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 22, 2009 9:17 AM CST reply actions

Well Joels latest post shows haley saying we have NOT regressed

but what I was trying to say before is what Joel is saying in his post. It doesn’t matter if your defense cuts the passing yards down drastically and then triples the rushing ypg allowed. Doesn’t help to increase the turnover’s gained only to turn around and give away double than you had been giving up.

by krayfish on Dec 22, 2009 9:34 AM CST reply actions

Sounds like the post on the moving target, huh?

The middle got exposed bad. Doesn’t matter pass or run, we are weak in the middle. All of our safeties are backup caliber. Our ILBs are not to be confused with Ray Lewis or Junior Seau, and our DL gets less penetration than…OK I’m not going to go there.

We need another offseason or two to fix this defense. The funny thing is that we’ve seen a great defense built before. You start with a great secondary, you draft I don’t know someone like Albert Lewis and Kevin Ross, or maybe someone like Deron Cherry and Lloyd Burress.

Then when teams can’t pass on you, you bring in a Neil Smith, and follow that up with drafting a prolific pass rusher named Derrick Thomas.

It’s funny that all the talk of building in the trenches is the exact opposite way that we built the great defense of Bill Cower, followed by Gunther, under Marty.

It’s fun to reminisce about the good old days, huh?

by cpa913 on Dec 22, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions

it's not saying that a great defense can't be built another way

but by building the trenches up first maximizes the life of your defense as every one should be hitting their stride together.

by Leaf on Dec 22, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

We are the worst

I seen some K C players standing watching the runners go by. it even looked like one of our L B waved good bye. Clark Hunt needs to pay some F A some money. these kids are not mean enough to stop anyone.

by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Dec 22, 2009 9:40 AM CST reply actions

Oops

I meant to vote “no” and I voted “yes” accidently after just skimming the question.

The 2009 Chiefs would dominate the 2008 Chiefs if they played. My only worry would be someone trying to cover Tony Gonzalez.

by Nick Britt on Dec 22, 2009 9:50 AM CST reply actions

I'd so love to test that with Madden or whatever

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Dec 22, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

Yes,yes and yes at least the best players such as they are played last year

by FrankPitts on Dec 22, 2009 10:16 AM CST reply actions

I voted YES because ...

last year the defense was a young unit, no Mike Vrabel to lead on the field, and the guys that are still here now were all a year younger then, so they had less experience

sorry, but to me the oveall D has regressed in some ways … a Herm coached team playing like we have the last two weeks? be honest, now … h ow many of you out there would have been clamoring for his head on a platter? uh huh, you I know … and you … and YOU for sure … yup, I know it

seriously, I think if Herm had been allowed to stay we WOULD have seen improvement, on D and O … more than what we’ve seen this year

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Dec 22, 2009 10:26 AM CST reply actions

Are you serious

We didnt see one ounce of improvement the entire time herm was here and this year is still part of that, we are still stuck with the crap that he tried to build. We were a good football team when herm took over and have done nothing but gone downhill since he took over.

by badassz1987 on Dec 22, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions

yes, I'm serious

we wre an aging and quickly approaching way over the hill team when Herm got here … he somehow managed to hold that group together for a year, even though his QB (Green) got injured and he had to use a journeyman backup (Huard)

he wanted to start the rebuild immediately but Carl wanted to bring in still more vets in the misguided notion that the “window of opportunity” was still open for guys like Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Green and TonyG … and so after Herm’s SECOND year, when the wheels fell off, he (Herm) talked some sense into Hunt and was FINALLY allowed to truly start the youth movement and rebuild the team … THAT, my friend, was ONE year ago … and MOST of Herm’s draft picks from 2008 are still with the team

do NOT blame Herm Edwards for the current mess … we were nearing total collapse when Herm took over, and what he started LAST year SHOULD have been started when he arrived … for that lack of foresight, blame Carl Peterson

as for THIS year, blame Scott Pioli and his non-draft, going all winter long and having NO CLUE what this team really needed … none whatsoever

yes, I’m serious as a heart attack …

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Dec 22, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

one more point to make here ...

look at the current roster …. the best playeers, the playmakers we have, the nucleus and foundation of this team: Flowers, Carr, Hali, Dorsey, Albert, Charles, Bowe … every one of those guys is from Herm’s time … every single one … if it wasn’t for those guys we might not have won a single game this year

so, take your badassz self to do some reading and learning about the recent history of the franchise,. who did what and when … it might open your eyes

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Dec 22, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions

One variable that should be noted is.

Last years D spent less time on the field than this years, and that means less time for other teams offense to put up more yards and points.

So even though the stats are close, if our offense this year could sustain drives and have kept the defense off the field more it would show this years defense is better.

Even though last years offense was as people like to call it (gimmicky), it put up more yards, more points and stayed on the field longer than this years offense.

Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.

by bringbacktheglory on Dec 22, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions