I just don't get it, do you?

by krayfish on Dec 20, 2009 9:24 PM CST

I no longer have that venomous frustration after the Chiefs lose. I have accepted what we are. Quite honestly though, there is truth in all perspectives shared on AP. I personally have tried ranting, raving, yelling, being combative being warned and retalitating on AP. I have tried to be cordial, open minded and I have tried the kool-aid. The result is that I am now skizophrenic and more confused than ever. Here are my most recent observations.

The one thing I want to clarify is the difference between justification and responsiblity. I believe and on some level so do you that being guilty or responsible for an action does not automatically nullify justification. For example, a person may do something as drastic as take the life of another person. It happens all the time. But depending upon the circumstances, society may or may not see that action as justifiable. If you are defending yourself from an intruder and you use deadly force, no one will hold you accountable. So your actions, while atrocious, are justifiable.

With that in mind, the first thing I would like to address is our coaching. In particular Todd Haley. Todd Haley is the HC and therefore is responsible for this teams actions on the field every Sunday. So I am going to discuss Haley's responsiblity and guilt for our win/loss record this year.

The fact is, Haley is making horrible decisions that are costing this team desperately needed wins. Today only highlighted his ineptness at play calling for a team like ours. Today, Jamaal Charles was on fire. Running like a demon. He was unstoppable, like always. So then, why would any HC stop handing the ball to Charles inside the red zone like Haley did today? Why?

Every single time Charles touched the ball he was gobbling up 5 to 6 yards. So why would you get inside Cleveland's 15 yard line and suddenly start passing the ball? Especially when your receivers are dropping the ball like it's 400 degrees celcius. It made no sense. We needed to run the clock out and tie the game so we could have a chance at an overtime victory in Arrowhead. And Charles is killing it. He's on fire. And what do we do? We pass the ball. We pass the damn ball. Why?? Why would you stop giving your best play maker the ball?

Why would you go to your weakest link when you need the win, unless you are trying to lose? That's been a conundrum for several weeks now. For the past several weeks, Haley has let Charles run us into the red zone and then inexplicably stopped giving the ball to him. Haley just stops giving Charles the ball and decides to try and pass the ball. I just don't get it.

Here's another one. Why would you not take two quick shots to the end zone at the end of todays game? Why would you HAIL MARY from the 24? Throwing a hail mary is something you do from maybe 40 to 50 yards away minimum. We could have run two plays. But no. We killed the clock and then lobbed it straight up in an obvious desperation attempt at the end of the game. Is Haley playing for the draft pick now? Because that play was designed to kill the clock and run the time out. I just dont' get it.

Here's another one. Why in the name of all that is sacred would you continue to kick the ball to Cribbs? Why would you kick to him to begin with right? But why would you dare to kick him the ball after he has burnt you once and is leading the all time league leader in kick returns for TD's? Then after he burnt us twice for touchdowns, why would we keep kicking him the ball? REALLY?? I do not get it. It almost seems intentional.

I hate to say that because I'm not mad we lost. WE need the draft pick at this point But it makes me think they are purposely playing to lose at this point. Which makes me sick. I'm a fan. They are coaches and they are paid to win, not lose. Especially after our first blackout sine 1990. But how else do you justify some of that stuff? Whether you drink the kool-aid, or sell the kool-aid, you have to be wondering the same thing after today's loss. I swear it looked like Haley was mad we were winning and decided to call plays to make sure we didn't.

Hey, if there's another explanation for all that please tell me. But do not waste my time telling me it's because he's a rookie HC. Because I'm not even a rookie HC and I can tell you those decisions were stupid. So did the announcer's btw. I'm sorry, I want to believe that Haley is the guy. But making basic decisions, like not kicking the ball back to a guy who has burnt you for 14 points already, is just stupid. When you watched today's game, you had to see the same thing's I did. It was like we were trying to lose on purpose. Why? I don't know. But are his decisions while atrocious, justifiable? And more importantly, does it matter? I don't know and I just don't get it. Do you?

Poll

Did Haley lose the game for us today?

Yes

20 votes

NO

59 votes

I don't know, but that was terrible coaching either way.

28 votes

107 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Comments

You left out

I don’t know, because I had to listen to the game on the radio. It sounded like we played well on offense, at times. It sounded like Cribbs was a one man wrecking crew at times, but I just won’t know until freaking midnight. Does the NFL not know that some of us have jobs we go to, and would actually like to get some sleep beforehand?

"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."

by cpa913 on Dec 20, 2009 9:28 PM CST reply actions

that's ok cpa...your the numbers guru for us.

I’ll await your post tomorrow. Please post tomorrow ok? Put up some of those numbers and help me get a better perspective. I am baffled.

by krayfish on Dec 20, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions

Haley continues to pull a lot of head scratchers

That Hail Mary pass at the end blew me away.

I don’t know if 7 seconds is enough time for 2 plays, but you would think you could do a little more structured pass than just heaving it up with 6 or 7 defenders back there. I didn’t understand that at all.

How about his handling of personnel? All the sudden we have freaking Mark Bradly returning kicks AND punts even though he’s never done it before in his career? WTF?!

All season long we see Haley moving guys in and out. He gives a guy a shot for one game and if they don’t perform superbly he pulls them out and tries someone else. How about giving a guy a chance to get used to playing a position?

I first noticed this with Barry Richardson going in at RT in the preseason. He got one game to start and didn’t have a great game, so they totally quit on him at RT and make him a backup LT. They then bring in Ndukwe, who was a Guard, and played him for a couple games before bringing in O’Callaghan.

They move guys in and out of the KR / PR all the time. There has been very little success there, but how about finding a guy that you think can do it and sticking with a guy for more than a week and letting him get used to it?

by ChiefDJ on Dec 20, 2009 9:36 PM CST reply actions

Man you nailed it DJ. I almost puked when I saw Bradley returning kicks for us.

Stupid stupid moves. I mean there is no way we are going to improve as a team if we have “A” team. This revolving door policy he has is idiotic as you already pointed out. There’s no way for anyone to get good at any position playing it for one game and then getting benched. Great point because I forgot to add that to my head scratches about him. Bradley was definitely a head scratcher. And that Hail Mary??? OMG don’t even get me started.

by krayfish on Dec 20, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions

Charles is the only one who has shown he can return kicks.

And IMO you do not use your starting RB to return kicks unless it is a special situation (as they did near the end of the game). The risk of injury is too high, especially when the depth at RB is not there.

by saskwatch on Dec 21, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions

I can't argue with yo ther saskwatch, but you don't put a guy out there

that has never returned a punt in his life when that receiver has shown time and again he can not break a single tackle. Now I’m no coach but I watch the games and Bradley is made of glass. He is not a strong receiver. So why would Haley think Bradley could return a punt? Returning a kick entails breaking tackles. Something Bradley is not cut out to do.

by krayfish on Dec 21, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions

well...

but how about finding a guy that you think can do it and sticking with a guy for more than a week and letting him get used to it?

maybe that’s what he’s trying to do but the simple fact is we don’t have many people he thinks can do “it” and i agree with him.

The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells

Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells

by kcguy on Dec 20, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions

It's already been stated by Haley and several others int he Chiefs orginazation

They think that the optimal number of touches for Charles is around 20-25 per game. They want him to be a complimentary change of pace guy. They are looking for a TOTAL of 20-25 touches per game so that he does not lose his speed or explosiveness as the game wears on. Thatis why they activated the rookie. That is why they handed to Castillo, and that is why Charles was taken off kick/punt return.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Dec 20, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions

maybe...or maybe if he would have not given up on Jamaal so early on in the season

we wouldn’t have had 2.7 here for so long

by krayfish on Dec 21, 2009 7:49 AM CST up reply actions

Bradley > Wade BOTTOM LINE

We can cry about it but we do not have a better otpion than Bradley back there. YES we have issues that cannot be fixed without upgrades to the roster in the OFF-SEASON. I actually though Bradley would of been back there sooner.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 21, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions

Mixed feelings on Haley!

Haley had a good game plan IMO and Charles had 25 carries which was ok except we were playing catch up due to the “D”. I agree with the kick to Cribbs especially the 2nd time, C’mon. Actually I was ok in general with Haley except for the darn Timouts! What the hell, can we really not function without using our timeouts. There was no excuse for not having multuple timeouts for the next drive. The bottomline is that we need some key coaches and Haley needs to show more improvement in his game management. I do however like his decision making in taking calculated risks. AS far as the revolving door of players, I really think the staff is trying to find out what they have and realizing it is not a lot.

by casselreadychiefs on Dec 20, 2009 9:42 PM CST reply actions

Krayfish....this post had to be therapeutic for you!

by casselreadychiefs on Dec 20, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions

lol...it was casselready....it was! ahhhhhh (-:

by krayfish on Dec 20, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions

I think people would feel a lot better

if the dropped passes had not been so bad. 8 or 9 dropped passes in one game? That was potentially 8 – 9 successfully called offensive plays that we didn’t get.

Kicking it to Cribbs the second time was a boner of a move.

by Dove40 on Dec 20, 2009 10:00 PM CST reply actions

Decisions have been bad...

today, they called time out at the end of the first half on 4th and 11, so they could decide that they were going to punt……the right move was to continue to let the clock run ALREADY KNOWING you were going to punt…they left 37 seconds on the clock. If the Browns were a better offense that was plenty of time to put more points on the board….it didnt hurt us cause they just ran the clock out,,BUT…it was stupid. I mentioned it in the thread today during the game and got a response of…oh well, in the end it didnt hurt us…The point was, it was the WRONG decision. First yr head coach or not…thats a strategic move that even the most basic armchair QB could figure out in less time than the play clock has. Simple clock managment

by KCinAZ on Dec 20, 2009 10:22 PM CST reply actions

His game time decisions have been bad, and the reason is obvious.

He needs an offensive coordinator. When you are busy calling plays and gameplanning an offense you are not ready to make the quick time management decisions. A rookie head coach should not be calling the plays. many of this stated this when it happened and we all new that the game day resbonsibilities of the head coach would be affected if he was also calling plays.

by saskwatch on Dec 21, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

I don't...

Don’t worry. Apathy will set in shortly. You wiil discover that there are other professional franchises worthy of your support. I, too, am approachbing that point. I find it difficult to understand why so many Chiefs’ fans still support Haley.

by Special K on Dec 20, 2009 10:24 PM CST reply actions

I do agree

that Haley needs to improve on his playcalling. Jamaal was on fire today and could of had over 200 yds and multiple td’s if we would keep feeding him the rock. I mean, I know you don’t want to overuse the guy but come on, he’s one of our only game changers, we have bradley returning kicks for pete’s sake. But, today, you have to put this loss on our D which was completely pathetic in the run game. It was actually our best offensive day of the season, just some questionable play calls at times. I think it might be time to search for 2 new coordinators in the off season.

by WtexKC on Dec 20, 2009 10:33 PM CST reply actions

When I watched this game for the LB review I only saw one thing:

Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 7
Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 10
Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 71
Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 13
Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 9
Mays over pursues his gap assignment: Cleveland runs for 12
ect…
ect….
ect….

The Chiefs have no MLB. (a true MLB that protects his gap, and covers the middle shallows)
HC Gunthar Cunningham had no MLB.
HC Dick Vermeil had no MLB.
HC Herman Edwards had no MLB.
HC Todd Haley has no MLB.

This is nothing new. It has been a glaring hole in the Chiefs defense for so many years now that I’ve just about given up hope.

The Chiefs problems are mostly straight up the middle of the field on both sides of the ball:
FS, MLB, NT, OC, ORG…. THe center of our field looks a lot like a AAA College team

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Dec 20, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions

+1 heh heh

Now I know why I created a MLB for my Chiefs team on Madden. This defense needs a leader. Whether it’s a safety or MLB, I don’t care, but we need one.

Our off-season priorities:
Hire OC and DC, get the right staff in place.
Offensive Side: Linemen, speed receiver/KR
Defensive Side: NT, MLB, OLB, SS

More talent and depth obviously.

by Falcon58 on Dec 20, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions

SS not FS (but both wouldnt hurt)

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Dec 20, 2009 11:24 PM CST up reply actions

Same for me...same thoughts exactly....

When was it that Mays actually seemed good against the run?

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Dec 21, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly!!!

We need 3 LBs a NT and atleast one S on D. and We need atleast one more GOOD WR with hands a RB to share the load, and with that our team looks much better as the O-Line once again even without our supposed best O-Lineman out had their best game of the year against a team who put up 8 sacks last week.
So my list of needs for the off-season in order of importance.
1. NT
2. ILB
3. S
4. ILB
5. OLB
6. WR
7. OC
8. NT/DE
9. KR/PR
10. OG/OT just O-Line good player for depth
11. S

I think ten to eleven moves is fair to expect and with those moves this team will be much better.
There is no doubt we have to upgrage our LB core or next year will not be any better. A NT also has to be brought in.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 21, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions

It's a process kray, hang in there man it will be worth it. Hopefully sooner than later.

by bluechief7 on Dec 20, 2009 11:25 PM CST reply actions

3rd & 2 to Jake O'Connell??

Haley seems to be a glutton for punishment. I didn’t even go to coaching school and I know not to throw it to Jake O’Connell. There is a reason he’ll be open….

by ncchefs on Dec 21, 2009 6:59 AM CST reply actions

yah he sucks and why would you do that when Chambers is on our team

and Cottam was hot?? Why bring Jake in at all?? what for?? to lose it for us? To give us the best possible chance to lose? I agree ncchefs

by krayfish on Dec 21, 2009 7:57 AM CST up reply actions

I would of taken Ryan over O'Connel in that situation and thats saying something

and they threw it to him twice during that period of the game both being drops.

by tomahawk44 on Dec 21, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions

DRAFT PICK it does appear it is on the staffs mind now.

by kcchiefstd on Dec 21, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions

Ya I know and I agree that our team is improved in some areas.

I think sometimes haley’s plays he designs are genius. They are really good. But they are designed for a team with talent. But what r u gonna do right? You can’t not try to be good. But it’s decision making on 4th downs 3rd downs, with the clock running out.

We drove into the red zone and Charles was chewing up yardage. So then they pass it and Cassel throws it right in the chest a Brown player. Next play…since it’s 4th down territory now as we r losing and time is running out, they THROW again????!! When Charles has done nothing but gain yardage all game long.

I don’t know how not to feel like we are getting ripped off sometimes.

I believe the talent level will improve at some point. That takes time. But I hope Pioli is taking Haley aside and talking to him after these bone head games.

Haley needs a coordinator like Weiss to help him out. Someone to whisper in his ear and say simple things like “Hey haley…don’t kick it to that guy, he’s the best returner in NFL history ok”…“just pretend like you thought of it…it’s ok I just saw it on ESPN so everyone already knows. Let’s just not do that again”.

by krayfish on Dec 21, 2009 7:56 AM CST reply actions

I agree with you, Kray

that Haley has, indeed, come up with some very interesting plays. Was it last week where they lined up in the shotgun, snapped the ball to Charles, and Cassel acted like the ball had gone over his head? Considering what had happened the week before, this was extremely clever. Unfortunately, it didn’t work.

You say that these plays are designed fro a team with talent. But I look at it another way: these plays are for teams that need them to deliver the coup de grace… not just get a first down. The team is in a situation where the basic problem is execution. If that’s the problem, you don’t fix it by spending practice time working up exotic plays. You spend it on getting the team to execute basic plays properly. Once you can do that, the exotic plays are not only easy… but they work.

The other problem is that once Haley has dreamed up these plays, he feels that he has to use them. I’ve forgotten where I saw this, so I apologize for not attributing it properly, but someone referred to this has a play “burning a hole in Haley’s pocket.” I think that’s a perfect description of the problem; he ends up using them when it really isn’t the ideal time.

Do you remember the play Marty called – I believe it was against Seattle some years ago – where they lined up to punt, and Louie Aguiar threw a pass that looked like a punt? The coverage guys are racing down the field, unaware that it was really a pass… and it worked perfectly for a huge gain. You can only pull that about once a season – at exactly the right time.

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Dec 21, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions

Kray you are blaming the wrong person

What I saw was piss poor tackling, all game long. To give up not one but two kick off returns for TD’s, to allow a running back over 250 yards means one thing arm tackles. No one wrapped up, I saw play after play of someone making a hit only to have a Brown bounce off and go on to make a gain for needed yards. All of those yards given up yesterday came after the initial hit without making the stop or tackle. That’s what pissed me off, you seen to be determined to blame Haley for everything and somethings I didn’t agree with, but if the players made the catch they are paid to, and make the tackle they are paid too the Chiefs win this game going away.

is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?

This Chiefs team is closer to a new expansion team than it is a playoff contender, your expectations should match that.

by KC Fanatic on Dec 21, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions

NO not for everything. But when hall of famer former players are calling Haley out for the same thing

I’m going with them. They even said and I quote “C’mon Haley I know you’ve never played football in your life, but even you have to know that you don’t kick the ball back to a guy that just burned you for a touchdown”. (when I quote I do the best I can).

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that you do not make the same tactical error twice. You punt out of bounds. We have one of the best punters alive. No need to kick it to a guy that is the greatest return man ever. Sorry Fanatic but that was plain stupid by Haley.

And you do not Hail Mary from the 24. That is the single stupidest thing I’ve seen all season. Right now he is the brunt of a few jokes in the coaches inner circles. Sorry you think I blame him for EVERYTHING. Because I do not. But it seems to me you excuse him for everything.

He is the head coach. And if he sees his guys can not tackle Cribbs, then he has to man up and admit that and not kick it to the guy again. Just like with some of his earlier play calling. It was designed for teams with talent. He had to dumb it up a bit for us.

by krayfish on Dec 21, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions

Percentages

Going with the percentages, the chances of Cribbs taking another one to the house aren’t very good. Add to that that our kick coverage team was in position on the first one to make the tackle and didn’t. So I wasn’t completely pissed that they kicked it to him the second time. Besides if you kick the squib kick or try to loft one out there, the receiving team typically gets pretty good field position on those types of kicks anyways. At some point you just tip your hat to Mr. Cribbs and say job well done. The decision to kick to him again didn’t bother me all that much.

by KC Chief 40 on Dec 21, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions