If I were Pioli for a (Draft) Day
by KCCheeze on Dec 19, 2009 5:39 AM CST
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Here I am in my second draft as a GM of a team who has won 4 or less games 3 years straight. The franchise has hit a historic low and I need to turn this around now. I need to generate excitement in this team and not only fill the seats, but start a new era for Chiefs football. I personally want to go back to the glory days where Arrowhead was a place other teams did not want to play, where the defense was dominant and the crowd deafening. We have a QB who can manage the game, not sling it around the field, but manage. I am wanting to build a team around defense (think Baltimore Ravens)
So this year I am going to do something bold on day 1. With the Chiefs picking at #4 or #5 I am going to trade UP to the #1 spot. Yes thats right UP. We aren't trading down (again) and we may as well go for it. I would trade out 1st rd pick and a second (next year's) plus whatever other picks I need to get to that #1 spot. ( am not looking at the point chart because nobody really uses that crap anymore).
With the #1 pick in the 2010 NFL draft the Kansas City Chiefs select....Ndamukong Suh!!! Arguable the best defensive player to come out of the draft in a long while. This will sell some tickets for sure, and give us a dominant guy up front.
So now we are in a 3-4 but we already have jackson-Dorsey as DE's....what now? Well, Jackson is Pioli's guy, so he's not going anywhere. So I would trade Dorsey plus one of our second rounders this year to hop in around the 10 spot in the 1st round. With that pick, I would take Eric Berry. These 2 picks alone I think would turn our defense completely around. With the dominant line and safety, our conrers will be able to play tighter coverage underneath and offfenses will be hesitant to throw over top. not to mention the pass rush will lead to poorly thrown balls ripe for the taking.
with our remaining 2nd rd pick we take Golden Tate or Terrance Cody if they fall that far, or the best OL available. We take a Center with our 3rd. I think we can wait to pick up an OL in the 1st for 1 more year now that we have a running game and a defense that doesn't force us to have to throw it downfield to keep up with the other team, Succop wins games with FG's.
Also, Pioli grows some balls and gives Vince Wilfork whatever he wants to play in KC, hte year is uncapped anyways so front load the crap out of his contract. Jackson-Wilfork-Suh up front wins games!
We can only dream right?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I love it good idea
Chiefs win the superbowl in 2010.
by The. Face Of The Franchise on Dec 19, 2009 10:53 AM CST reply actions
God please no!!!!
D-line? Again??? Why, so Krumrie can take a 50 million dollar first round pick and flush his career and our future down the fucking toilet? I don’t think so. We play a 3-4 now. D-linemen in the 3-4 don’t make plays, they only take up blockers. You can find guys way deeper in the draft who can do that. At least you could if we had a decent D-line coach.
When will get a freaking playmaker with our first rounder? I am so tired of spending our high picks on guys who are virtually invisible on the field. If we aren’t going to get a playmaker (Safety, WR, LB, or RB) then we need to get some help on the O-line and protect Cassel. At least then, he won’t have any excuses when he stinks up the place.
did you read the entire post?
because it centers around picking Suh AND Berry (your idea of a playmaker)
Why draft Suh?
And trade Dorsey? Dorsey and Suh are more or less the same player, but Dorsey is further along in his development. How quickly people forget that Glenn Dorsey was hyped almost as much as Suh as being a “can’t miss” prospect that would probably be a Rookie of the Year and perennial Pro Bowler. You must also take into account our defensive scheme. Suh is a 4-3 DT. He won’t fit here as a 3-4 NT. He would probably work better as a 3-4 DE, but we already have a first round pick playing DE for us at both ends.
Keep Dorsey and draft Eric Berry with your first pick. Then use a later pick on a NT that will fit the scheme. The class for NTs this season is actually pretty deep. We could get a quality player in the 2nd or 3rd round.
by Soria's Unibrow on Dec 19, 2009 12:10 PM CST reply actions
i would rather draft suh
and get rid of jackson…but nobody will take him and pioli has too much pride to get rid of him
Many mocks are saying that Berry will be the first player off the board.
The cost of trading up is way too high. Pioli will never do it.
What’s wrong with Jackson? He is on track to being a solid DT as is Dorsey. We need to stand pat with those two and get our NT in free agency or later in the draft.
With that said Krumrie needs to be fired. He has way too much responsibility coaching up our 100 million dollar line and honestly, I don’t think he is up to the challenge. He will NEVER get the maximum potential out of Dorsey and T-Jax. People can argue with me about that until they are blue in the face and I won’t waiver. He has had high draft picks to work with ever since he got here and has never gotten the production out of them that we need. I think Krumrie has been very much a part of the decline of our defense.
Like half of this.
I’m not so sure about Krumrie, though. Dorsey started his whole rookie season, and transitioned nicely to 3-4 DE this season. Jackson’s developing, too, and has started all season. Edwards simply looks like a good 4-3 DT who’s not quite stout enough to play NT-style.
Ryan Sims? 2nd- or 3rd-tier player, who’s still in the league, but far from dominant. Pretty much overvalued in the draft, because he was teamed with Julius Peppers in college.
Tamba Hali? Too small to hold down the point as a 4-3 strong-side DE in the NFL. And a real reach for that purpose. Bulking him up took the one thing that WOW-ed out of college, which is his outside pass rush skills, and he spent much of the time nicked-up, carrying that extra weight.
Jared Allen? Not a 1st-rounder, but he turned out OK.
I’m not trying to change your mind, but I’m not letting this go unchallenged, either.
I really like what you said about NT in FA or later in the draft. Only thing I might change, there is “in FA AND later in the draft.”
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
If we lose to Cleveland tomorrow
Trading up won’t be all that hard, our first this year, Bowe, and a fifth looking back at the Giants and Chargers trade.
Several teams have given up a 1 and a 3 for a WR. That would equate out to 2 – #1’s, a 3 and a 5th. That’s what the giants gave up for manning.
Trade DJ for a 3rd, Dorsey for a 2 and a 3, trade those 3’s for another second.
Take Suh in the first
Take O’Dowd or Wisniewski C, Fox or Davis RT, Williams NT, Tate WR with those 2nds
Take a CB, S, Pouncy C or ILB in the 3rd
Take another of one of those positions in the fourth
Peek in the fifth, and Olsen if he’s there, If you take pouncey in the 3rd take his brother here instead of Olsen.
That’s 3 to 4 O-linemen, 2 D-Linemen, a WR, a TE, and one or 2 more defensive players.
Hampton, Wilfork, Pickren, Jolly, Seymour should all be on pioli’s radar in FA.
Dansby, Foote, Morrison and Oaklands other LB, should all be on the radar.
Griffith FB and White RB should be on the radar.
Clayton WR if we can’t get Chambers back.
Watson, or Crumpler at TE.
Rogers at Corner should also get a look.
Trade value for Bowe?
Not sure I want to start all over at WR. Bowe might have more value as possession receiver on the Chiefs, than the value placed on him by any trading partner. Keeping Bowe and getting more consistent speed and skill at the other wideout spot would probably do wonders. Tough call, that. This deep into his 2nd season (coming off a 4-week suspension), he better ALWAYS be where the hell he oughta be, and he oughta ALWAYS catch anything in his reach. As a 1st-rounder, with 1st-round money, he OUGHTA be out-working everybody else, before, during and after practice, and between end of season and OTAs. He seemed more interested in becoming a t.v. personality than a Pro Bowler last offseason, but maybe Haley’s turned him around.
Suh would be a huge consolation prize if Dorsey were traded for a 2 and a 3 (But that looks like a lot of moving parts). Not sure I wouldn’t want to just keep a pair of 3rds, just for more choices in a fairly deep draft. After Berry, I’m not so confident of the DB talent in this draft, and a pair of 3rds might give a better shot at gleaning at least one DB with elite speed who can PLAY, and give the Chiefs something more dominant in the d-backfield.
I like your concentration at C, RT.
But trading this many of the better players currently on the squad, although I LIKE extra picks and PREFER to be the one giving up the one player for the multiple picks, rather than the one giving up the picks. Teams that are on the wrong ends of those deals, are mortgaging their futures for a short-term ‘’sparkly." And you put yourself on the RIGHT end of those deals. But too many of those probably aren’t great, either, since you’re back to Square One and starting over on your rebuild.
I can see trading Dorsey if I got Suh in return. And 2nds and 3rds are going to be very good to have for a team that’s trying to build a dominant o-line for years to come. And I think much of what we do NOT like about Derrick Johnson goes away the minute we have NT and another couple DBs rounding-out that D. System picks for LB/RB after OL, NT, DB are addressed. And at any point in there, I’m OK with taking a WR whose value is higher than where he’s fallen, if he has speed and is more player than track-lete. Jamaal Charles starred in track, but you can see he’s a player at heart. Lawrence, however, looks more athlete than player, at this point.
Nice scenarios, though. I REALLY like your attempt at a (w)holistic run-down. What KC does in FA (pre-draft) will have huge impact, although I can easily see signing Wilfork and STILL going NT in the 2nd. But I don’t think just picking where others aren’t and taking the also-rans off the waiver wire is going to do the Chiefs nearly as much good as it did this past year. They have those depth guys pretty much in place, and need to be adding the top-shelf talents at WR and DB.
This is nuts to most, but I can see a cover-2 team lusting after Brandon Flowers, where he’s a Pro Bowler in the making. But against the best teams, you don’t want to give up the obvious mismatch on the edge. Against big and fast, Flowers needs safety help, or we’ll be changing his name to Brandon Target. I’m not advocating trading Flowers off, but if he’s KC’s #1 corner, then they need to upgrade their #1 corner spot, imo. As #2 corner, there are LOTS of WRs he can shut down, and with better true corners starting on the edge, I think he’d be a monster at nickel, able to come up in press against ‘most any slot receiver. He could also be a monster coverage safety, who’s a sure tackler.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Mills
That Super-CB ain’t there in the draft this year. Well maybe, but when the combines post up the 40’s times. He’ll be gone quick. All of the CB’s are small and all of the Safeties minus one or two are slower than Flowers. Maybe there is a reason for cover schemes cause the WR’s with the rules the way they are will always beat the CB’s matched up on them.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 19, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
Steve
I’m afraid you’re right. That’s why my eye is on Berry. You’re talkin’ to a guy who wanted to move heaven and earth for Charles Woodson, Chris McAlister, Champ Bailey, and to flat-out TAKE Troy Polamalu, the last of whom, I think, DID fall to the Chiefs’ spot in the 1st (when they took Larry Johnson!?).
Yes, the reason for zone is the absence of any 1-on-1 answers to tall track-star WRs. I still wonder why all the football geniuses in the NFL don’t do something about this, directly. Maybe it’s just the nature of the beast, and why there’s such interest in speedy LBs, who can attack up the field AND hold up in zone, when the drop back. But I’m more of a direct guy than that, seeing the perimeter and the trenches as the places where your wealth should be concentrated.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Maybe
We got the guy your looking for on the roster.
If Carr and Flowers as 2nd year guys are always available. Which is good.
We might not know what we got in Washington, Morgan, and Price who are bigger.
They might be faster just raw in skills. Legett and Richardson are about same size as Flowers so I don’t see them as be possible upgrades.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 19, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not advocating that trade
although I wouldn’t bitch if it happened, someone said we’d have to mortgage too much to do it. It’s entirely possible, and that’s just a possible scenario.
I don’t know what to think anymore, I could see Flowers or Carr, Dorsey, Bowe, DJ, and Waters all being shopped in the offseason, so this team can be molded more and more into what Pioli wants it to be.
I never mention Albert in the trade scenerios, he could be there, but I think they have plans for him at LG. No one knows what Pioli and Haley will do, it’s a waiting game that’s killing me.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 19, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
I really could see Flowers being traded more on value
than anyone else. Dorsey and Bowe are cornerstones along with Albert and Charles of the Chiefs going forward.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 19, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't neccessarily sayin trade him
Just showin a possibility of how we could move up to #1, and pick up more picks later in the draft.
by mcclanahanman on Dec 19, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
This a ridiculous conversation
You guys want to trade off Bowe, Dorsey, spend yet ANOTHER first round pick on Suh as though he’s the second coming of Jesus. D-Linemen ARE NOT worth all the money we would be paying. Especially Suh. He’s not anywhere close to being big enough to play NT which is the only position we have need for on the line.
How many teams have 3 first round picks in their 3-4 front 3? NONE! There is a reason for that. They don’t make plays plain and simple. All they do is tie up blockers. If you want playmakers, get some LBs who can make plays going after the QB and in coverage after our line is tying up those blockers. We can find a NT later in the draft or, as you said, we can go after some free agents to give the line some maturity and help the young guys grow.
It sounds to me like you guys want to blow up the whole roster, get rid of Bowe and start the whole rebuild process again for the third year in a row.
Man, am I glad you guys aren’t Pioli because if you were, we would be rebuilding this team for the next 10 years.
I agree
We dont need to trade Bowe we just need to get another good receiver, preferably thru FA so that we dont have to wait for them to develop, that can play opposite of him. I dont see the reason for trading Flowers or Carr either. I do have a feeling that Dorsey gets traded tho, Im not saying I agree with it or that I think we should but I just have a feeling that he might but I dont think it will be so we can draft Suh, remember we drafted Mcgee last year too he can play the other de.
i said nothing about trading Bowe
i am talkin about getting the best 2 players at their position to come out of the draft in the past 5 plus years. Dorsey has looked OK at best, Suh is a beast, not at NT. the NT position should be filled in FA and in the draft later on.
Suh will be a game changer no matter what team he goes to, just watch. Berry will be also.
I care nothing about Suh...Really.
I am praying to God that we don’t spend another first rounder on a tweener D-lineman who has NEVER played in the 3-4. Eric Berry is a surefire stud and we would be doing great to draft him if we can.
We don’t need to trade up and sacrifice costly draft picks to reach for anybody. We need to trade down if anything and draft as many SOLID players as we can. This team has a ton of needs that will be hard to fill in one year. Especially after the HORRIBLE draft we had last year (Yeah, thats right, I said it ) If we CAN grab Berry with our first rounder, I will say, we would be stupid not to. We have plenty of second, third, and fifth rounders to help supplement.
we have a ton of needs every year
and we draft and draft and how many of those actually pan out for us. People treat draft picks like gold when its the players that are the gold. you don’t need to pick 87 players in every draft. Picking the top few players in the draft that are sure playmakers is how you get better, not by picking a bunch and hoping they pan out, only to release them later. Also i’m not saying this is going to happen or that it should happen, but the traditional way of “just wait and see who is there” when we pick is obviously not working. Somebody needs to grow some balls and actually SPEND for some real playmakers that are worth the money they make.
by KCCheeze on Dec 19, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec on that
Maybe we will get some more of those types this year.
To build a house….
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 19, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
I have a question
I dont really watch that much college football, is Berry that much better than Mays from USC? Would we be better taking Okung in the first and Mays in the second or Berry in the first and then take OF line later in the draft?
by badassz1987 on Dec 19, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Scout.com has Mays #1 and Berry #2 at the S position
by idahochieffan on Dec 19, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
If Okung and Berry were both still there when we pick...(which I would say neither will be)
We should take Berry for sure but, if Okung is there and Berry is not, Okung would be a great addition to our line. It would upgrade 2 positions on the line and give us a DOMINANT left side. IF we can get Berry, I would say he is the best option for us with our current needs.
i can agree on that
i am thinking we will pick #4. top 3 picks will probably be Suh, QB (not sure which yet), and Berry or Okung…so we “Should” get a shot at 1 of them
What about a pass rushing LB?
Later rounds?
by idahochieffan on Dec 19, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
You want the truth!!!!
We can turn it around and be a playoff team in 2011. First we HAVE to sign one guy, DE Richard Seymour. Then we can send Dorsey and D. Morgan to Tampa for their 2 second rounders and their third. Next we trade down with Houston (they draft McCoy) for their #15,2nd rounder and their fourth. Take a look at this talent we could draft.
R1 #15 NT Terrence Cody-Alabama
R2 #34 LB Brandon Spikes-Florida
R2 #36 OT Jason Fox-Miami
R2 #40 C Stefen Wiesniewski-Penn St.
R2 #44 WR Arreligous Benn-Illinois
R2 #46 LB Joe Pawelek-Baylor
R3 #65 LB Eric Norwood-S. Carolina
R3 #69 G Mike Johnson-Alabama
R4 #99 TE Aaron Hernandez-Florida
R4 #107 SS Justin Woodall-Alabama
R5 #131 RB DeMarco Murray-Oklahoma
R5 #135 CB Jerome Murphy-USF
R5 #149 KR Brandon Banks-KSU
R7 #212 FS Shane Carter-Wisconsin
problem is
Raiders spent a 1st rounder on Seymour. They are going to offer him big money to stay there in Oakland because he pretty much is their defensive line. I know it is the Raiders but I don’t see us getting him. Also, if we take Cody in the 1st i’m gonna be pretty pissed, I don’t think he is that great and not a 1st round talent.
I think the talent is there. But downside is too threatening.
Just can’t be sure he’d achieve his upside. Take him high and likely to be disappointed. Good chance somebody will take a chance on him later, and reap rich rewards.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
102:
Glad to see you sill posting your trade/trade/trade draft scenarios. I don’t see Cody on the Chiefs though.
Merlinnj
If Pioli and Haley vetted him, and he passed the attitude test,
AND he fell to the 2nd round, I can see it happening.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Yup.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
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